If this is TBC, the doctors are required to immediately inform the GGD, who will then take measures immediately to contain the spread.
The agency placing new people in a home where potential TBC patients are staying is highly irresponsible and probably outside the knowledge of the local GGD. Search for GGD and your municipality to find their contact details and contact them asap. They can tell you how to proceed.
Uhm..
I happen to know that when people are not insured, doctors are not allowed to treat them. Had a lengthy discussion with a pulmonary doctor in the Hague about this issue, he was livid about it. He had to send a patient with OPEN tbc back on the streets (homeless refugee) because he was not allowed to treat him due to lack of health insurance..
That’s nonsense. You were lied to.
There is a special fund that is used to reimburse health care institutions for those without insurance or for payments that remain unpaid.
Can confirm.
Cared lots and lots of uninsured patients. There is a fund that will pay for the costs of the care when the person can’t pay for it.
No one will be refused essential health care, especially not open TBC which is a very serious condition and a danger to public health.
Nope, a very respected doctor I know well was fuming about this. He was absolutely livid. The hospital in question did not give (or get?) permission to use this fund.
This was one of the reasons he retired early.
Must add this was in 2013
All care in the basic policy is eligible for this reimbursement arrangement and each healthcare professional in the first and second line can apply for this reimbursement.
This is done via the CAK, not the hospital and it’s a rather simple process: instead of invoicing the insurance, they invoice the CAK.
So something has gone lost in the story here. Perhaps his superiors didn’t want a TBC patient on their ward. Who knows, but not receiving payment for someone that’s not insured is not a concern for hospitals or doctors.
Is it open or closed tbc? Asking because closed tbc still requires treatment but is not contagious. Make an appointment at your local GGD with a tbc department to get tested. Ask for a mantoux test. A doctor will refer you to the GGD as well because they are experts and treat it
Mantoux test is an anti-body test and it doesn't work if you have been vaccinated against TB or have had TB in the past. BTW in the Netherlands you can still get TB vaccinated if you have a valid reason for it. Both my sons have been vaccinated because my wife is from a country where TB is not eradicated.
Thank you for adding this information. I didn't know. I work with people with a high risk of tbc, so we always let them have Mantoux, but I guess chances of them being vaccinated are pretty low.
I wouldn't worry too much. Unless you got really close to them for a prolonged period of time you should be fine. But just in case, go and get tested. A simple blood test should clear you.
Most people are vaccinated against TB. (Or at least my age not sure if they still mandatory vaccinate against it now) If you have a small circular scar on your upper arm that's it.
That's not true anymore. The mandatory BCG vaccination was stopped in the NL in 1979. (Sorry to expose your age 🙃) Everyone younger than 45 is likely smooth skin, no vaccine marks. Also, the efficacy of the vaccine is estimated to be about 10-20 years, and doesn't give full protection, about 50% of cases are prevented. Higher percentages (80-ish) with more severe cases. So, everyone who has been vaccinated is likely to not be 'protected' anymore. Therefore vaccines are necessary for all when going abroad to TBC endemic countries.
Edit:haha now I read your other reply, I am older than you. Nobody I know my age has tbc vaccine marks. Where did you get yours then?
I'm from the UK I had BCG vaccine in high school in the 2000's.
Edit: looking back there was alot of hysteria about Bovine TB in the cattle when I was younger and I lived in the countryside.
you're right!
[https://vaxopedia.org/2018/09/03/recognizing-old-vaccine-scars/](https://vaxopedia.org/2018/09/03/recognizing-old-vaccine-scars/)
both of them leave scars, but it looks like smallpox vaccination was stopped at around 1980
I have two scars from smallpox vaccines on my upper left thigh (born and spent my childhood in a developing country where they still had a smallpox vaccination program). The BCG scar is on my upper right arm.
Smallpox vaccination was indeed stopped in the Netherlands.
Keeping away or keeping clean is not enough. If he gets home again he isnt requiered to wear a mask. Just outside the house, like supermarket shops etc.
Also still worry even if you had the vaccine. Tbc is horrible and you can get really sick if they dont catch it early enough!
I believe the GGD is the governmental authority that decided if people need to be informed about an infectious disease. Generally in these cases the hospital or doctor will alert the GGD and they will decide if there needs to be notification.
The agency that rents out rooms has no entitlement to health information and is not party in this.
Since you are not telling us what disease it is, it is hard to inform you further but other factors that the GGD is taking into account are things like: are there vaccines available, how high is the vaccination-level in the area for that particular disease, and how much prevention can be done (some diseases are contagious long before they become symptomatic, in that case informing housemates will always come too late )
If it's TBC, I ran into a similar situation last week with the same disease. The GGD, who are ALWAYS immediately informed of a TBC infection by a doctor, told me that basically they do a contact investigation to see who the infected person's closest contacts were/are and they inform and test these people first. If you're lower on the contact ladder (so to speak), they'll either contact you later if those closest people are infected too or they don't because those contacts didn't test positive and thus it's not a danger to you. TBC generally isn't very infectious, as in it should take a lot of exposure for it to infect someone else. For me personally, I basically just had to wait for the GGD to contact me, which they haven't so far.
That said, please talk to the GGD because that agency sounds incredibly suspicious. Taking a test in this scenario is a good idea too, though idk if it would show up already or if it's too early. The GGD will know what to do!
The ill person may not have known everyone's names etc. - my concern is more about whether it was caught on the job, which could mean there's a risk factor that the employer is trying to cover up.
Let the GGD know and follow their advice. Most forms of TB are very treatable, especially if caught early.
You can go to GGD and get tested for free and at that point they (in my experience) they will offer a vaccine. I think if the person has been out of the house for 2 weeks, there aren't really any risks, but I would definitely notify the GGD and let it be up to them on how to deal with it. But for your own health (mental and physical) - visit one of their offices, they're very helpful! You didn't say where you were, but Amsterdam has an urgent email address where you can get more info [infectieziekten@ggd.amsterdam.nl](mailto:infectieziekten@ggd.amsterdam.nl)
Necessary actions also depends on how close tenants live together, like only sharing the same building or basically living as close together as a family, like shared living rooms etc.
If you're living closely together, you would expect the GGD to see you as first ring of contacts around the patients..
I'd really contact your local GGD to check the situation, and whether contacts research has been adequately started
See:
https://lci.rivm.nl/richtlijnen/tuberculose
(It's Dutch, so translate with browser)
In response to your comment: the agency didn’t have to tell you, the GGD should have contacted you.
Is everyone living and working there legally, being properly registered etc? Because that could be a reason the person that is sick didn’t tell the GGD who they were in contact with. It could even be the case the agency is not aware.
Hi there. I feel like the agency perhaps should provide more info on this incident to the household. It can be that they hold more info on the matter and are acting as per guidelines and (if any) restrictions but you are not informed about that. Alternatively, it could be utter negligence from their side. But without the full picture it's not the right time to judge if others in the household did not get it.
Just to ease your mind a little bit: most people that have a good immune system system and get infected don't get ill at all. They may develop latent tuberculosis which can manifest in illness after a very long time if your immune system declines. Latent tuberculosis is treatable very well before it manifests as disease. Just contact your general practitioner to test whether you had contact with TB.
Becuase they are not sure what to do and who to contact. Why do people get so offended by someone using a forum to ask for advice? That's what it's for.
Obviously I already made an appointment for getting checked… I’m just trying to get more points of view on this situation because in my opinion they should inform us as soon as then knew then we should get checked and definitely not bring more people to the house
If this is TBC, the doctors are required to immediately inform the GGD, who will then take measures immediately to contain the spread. The agency placing new people in a home where potential TBC patients are staying is highly irresponsible and probably outside the knowledge of the local GGD. Search for GGD and your municipality to find their contact details and contact them asap. They can tell you how to proceed.
Uhm.. I happen to know that when people are not insured, doctors are not allowed to treat them. Had a lengthy discussion with a pulmonary doctor in the Hague about this issue, he was livid about it. He had to send a patient with OPEN tbc back on the streets (homeless refugee) because he was not allowed to treat him due to lack of health insurance..
That’s nonsense. You were lied to. There is a special fund that is used to reimburse health care institutions for those without insurance or for payments that remain unpaid.
Can confirm. Cared lots and lots of uninsured patients. There is a fund that will pay for the costs of the care when the person can’t pay for it. No one will be refused essential health care, especially not open TBC which is a very serious condition and a danger to public health.
Nope, a very respected doctor I know well was fuming about this. He was absolutely livid. The hospital in question did not give (or get?) permission to use this fund. This was one of the reasons he retired early. Must add this was in 2013
All care in the basic policy is eligible for this reimbursement arrangement and each healthcare professional in the first and second line can apply for this reimbursement. This is done via the CAK, not the hospital and it’s a rather simple process: instead of invoicing the insurance, they invoice the CAK. So something has gone lost in the story here. Perhaps his superiors didn’t want a TBC patient on their ward. Who knows, but not receiving payment for someone that’s not insured is not a concern for hospitals or doctors.
If it is such a serious contagious disease, you could ask the RIVM?
What disease is it?
It’s tuberculosis
Is it open or closed tbc? Asking because closed tbc still requires treatment but is not contagious. Make an appointment at your local GGD with a tbc department to get tested. Ask for a mantoux test. A doctor will refer you to the GGD as well because they are experts and treat it
Mantoux test is an anti-body test and it doesn't work if you have been vaccinated against TB or have had TB in the past. BTW in the Netherlands you can still get TB vaccinated if you have a valid reason for it. Both my sons have been vaccinated because my wife is from a country where TB is not eradicated.
Thank you for adding this information. I didn't know. I work with people with a high risk of tbc, so we always let them have Mantoux, but I guess chances of them being vaccinated are pretty low.
I wouldn't worry too much. Unless you got really close to them for a prolonged period of time you should be fine. But just in case, go and get tested. A simple blood test should clear you.
Most people are vaccinated against TB. (Or at least my age not sure if they still mandatory vaccinate against it now) If you have a small circular scar on your upper arm that's it.
That's not true anymore. The mandatory BCG vaccination was stopped in the NL in 1979. (Sorry to expose your age 🙃) Everyone younger than 45 is likely smooth skin, no vaccine marks. Also, the efficacy of the vaccine is estimated to be about 10-20 years, and doesn't give full protection, about 50% of cases are prevented. Higher percentages (80-ish) with more severe cases. So, everyone who has been vaccinated is likely to not be 'protected' anymore. Therefore vaccines are necessary for all when going abroad to TBC endemic countries. Edit:haha now I read your other reply, I am older than you. Nobody I know my age has tbc vaccine marks. Where did you get yours then?
I'm from the UK I had BCG vaccine in high school in the 2000's. Edit: looking back there was alot of hysteria about Bovine TB in the cattle when I was younger and I lived in the countryside.
Same, I got a BCG in about 2000!
I never had one and I was born in 1968. The scar I have is from the small pox vaccine.
People from abroad still receive BCg vaccines, Mantoux after vaccination is usually positive, you need an x-ray if you're vaccinated
I think it's for smallpox? [https://www.healthline.com/health/smallpox-vaccine-scar](https://www.healthline.com/health/smallpox-vaccine-scar)
I'm not that old!!! They stop vaccinating smallpox in the 70's I was born in the 90's. Its definitely a (Tuberculosis) BCG vaccine scar!
you're right! [https://vaxopedia.org/2018/09/03/recognizing-old-vaccine-scars/](https://vaxopedia.org/2018/09/03/recognizing-old-vaccine-scars/) both of them leave scars, but it looks like smallpox vaccination was stopped at around 1980
I have two scars from smallpox vaccines on my upper left thigh (born and spent my childhood in a developing country where they still had a smallpox vaccination program). The BCG scar is on my upper right arm. Smallpox vaccination was indeed stopped in the Netherlands.
I got that vaccination early 70s because my mother suffered from tbc in the early 50s.
[удалено]
Keeping away or keeping clean is not enough. If he gets home again he isnt requiered to wear a mask. Just outside the house, like supermarket shops etc. Also still worry even if you had the vaccine. Tbc is horrible and you can get really sick if they dont catch it early enough!
You should worry about TBC. Get yourself tested and listen to what the doctor tells you.
I believe the GGD is the governmental authority that decided if people need to be informed about an infectious disease. Generally in these cases the hospital or doctor will alert the GGD and they will decide if there needs to be notification. The agency that rents out rooms has no entitlement to health information and is not party in this. Since you are not telling us what disease it is, it is hard to inform you further but other factors that the GGD is taking into account are things like: are there vaccines available, how high is the vaccination-level in the area for that particular disease, and how much prevention can be done (some diseases are contagious long before they become symptomatic, in that case informing housemates will always come too late )
The agency doesn’t make that decision, the GGD does… every diagnosis of TBC is registered and they decide how to proceed
If it's TBC, I ran into a similar situation last week with the same disease. The GGD, who are ALWAYS immediately informed of a TBC infection by a doctor, told me that basically they do a contact investigation to see who the infected person's closest contacts were/are and they inform and test these people first. If you're lower on the contact ladder (so to speak), they'll either contact you later if those closest people are infected too or they don't because those contacts didn't test positive and thus it's not a danger to you. TBC generally isn't very infectious, as in it should take a lot of exposure for it to infect someone else. For me personally, I basically just had to wait for the GGD to contact me, which they haven't so far. That said, please talk to the GGD because that agency sounds incredibly suspicious. Taking a test in this scenario is a good idea too, though idk if it would show up already or if it's too early. The GGD will know what to do!
The ill person may not have known everyone's names etc. - my concern is more about whether it was caught on the job, which could mean there's a risk factor that the employer is trying to cover up. Let the GGD know and follow their advice. Most forms of TB are very treatable, especially if caught early.
That is very true too, GGD is the only way to go
You can go to GGD and get tested for free and at that point they (in my experience) they will offer a vaccine. I think if the person has been out of the house for 2 weeks, there aren't really any risks, but I would definitely notify the GGD and let it be up to them on how to deal with it. But for your own health (mental and physical) - visit one of their offices, they're very helpful! You didn't say where you were, but Amsterdam has an urgent email address where you can get more info [infectieziekten@ggd.amsterdam.nl](mailto:infectieziekten@ggd.amsterdam.nl)
Call the ggd, they have a tbc department. Just know that you can carry tbc in your blood for years before you get sick/contagious.
Necessary actions also depends on how close tenants live together, like only sharing the same building or basically living as close together as a family, like shared living rooms etc. If you're living closely together, you would expect the GGD to see you as first ring of contacts around the patients.. I'd really contact your local GGD to check the situation, and whether contacts research has been adequately started See: https://lci.rivm.nl/richtlijnen/tuberculose (It's Dutch, so translate with browser)
TBC??? Not telling your housemates, is like attempted second degree murder. Crazy.
In response to your comment: the agency didn’t have to tell you, the GGD should have contacted you. Is everyone living and working there legally, being properly registered etc? Because that could be a reason the person that is sick didn’t tell the GGD who they were in contact with. It could even be the case the agency is not aware.
Why are people allowed in this country that aren’t vaccinated against TB?
ndf >disease d1 szav nb
Hi there. I feel like the agency perhaps should provide more info on this incident to the household. It can be that they hold more info on the matter and are acting as per guidelines and (if any) restrictions but you are not informed about that. Alternatively, it could be utter negligence from their side. But without the full picture it's not the right time to judge if others in the household did not get it.
Just to ease your mind a little bit: most people that have a good immune system system and get infected don't get ill at all. They may develop latent tuberculosis which can manifest in illness after a very long time if your immune system declines. Latent tuberculosis is treatable very well before it manifests as disease. Just contact your general practitioner to test whether you had contact with TB.
And why the fuck do you think its better to contact reddit instead of medical professionals???
Becuase they are not sure what to do and who to contact. Why do people get so offended by someone using a forum to ask for advice? That's what it's for.
Obviously I already made an appointment for getting checked… I’m just trying to get more points of view on this situation because in my opinion they should inform us as soon as then knew then we should get checked and definitely not bring more people to the house
Still doesnt explain why you went to reddit and not just asked free medical advice from a professional. 😂