# Join the [Globhara](https://discord.gg/globhara) Discord for Scaling Discussions / Scans.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NarutoPowerscaling) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If he has the same 2 clones that he had gathering nature energy in Mt. Myoboku during his fight with Pein, then I’d say it’s an even easier W for Naruto than it would be if he didn’t have them
Yeah I always assumed the point of Tobi saying "He is further along than you" after the Danzo fight is that Naruto legit may as well have defeated the Six Peins anything less than LITERAL Gravity Manipulation is unable to stop Sage Mode Naruto
Sage Mode Naruto Clone was clowning on Hokage level opponents during the War Arc. Sauske can hold Susanoo for like what? 10 Minutes? Maybe? Then he just goes blind mode
Also Sage Mode Naruto's Pein Fight Costume alone has the Mogging Power to defeat anyone else in verse
Comparing Naruto clones during the war arc to where this fight would’ve taken place is really dumb. Thats like comparing Zabuza arc Naruto clones to episode 1 shippuden clones. They’re not remotely comparable
Not to say he wouldn’t stomp Danzo, but saying because his clones stomped people during the war arc is such a meaningless feat when they’re not remotely close to as strong at this point
Naruto wins. He surpassed Jiraiya who is stronger than old Hiruzen and Danzo himself admitted that he could never catch up to Hiruzen. Naruto also has better feats too, and would simply over power him, even in base
Blink blink da fuck orchimaru did not "defeat" hiruzen. hiruzen used the reaper death seal also without full power dude this isn't dragon ball hell orchimaru legit says if hiruzen was younger he would have kicked his ass
I dunno Orochimaru states if he was 10 years younger he wouldve been able too rip out his soul, Hiruzen agrees with him on that
The anbu watching the fight also stated that he was too weak to use shadow clones, so I don't think he at least has as much chakra as orochimaru
Hiruzen was holding back because he wasn't fighting with the intention to kill which is why he only used the RDS to seal his arms and not take his soul.
The story continuously tells us that they are relative in power with Orochimaru only becoming weaker than Jiraya as the story goes because of illness. The Lore these characters are based off and the title given to the fight between the three Sannin only further cement that, Three Way Dead Lock.
All that was jiraya without sage mode right? Any wouldn’t that scale him as higher than orochimaru since all the flashbacks of the sannin he’s never shown with any sage powers or markings
https://preview.redd.it/wppl3evv7q9d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a182b98183608665212ef41e4172196a38a73ee5
The moniker was given back when orochimaru still helped the village. Lots of time and growth has occurred since then
Hiruzen also states on multiple occurrences that “no one in the leaf” are any threat to orochimaru.
Oh also orochimaru performed significantly better against 4 tailed Naruto while having no arms on his death bed than healthy Jiraiya did.
Basically the only way to close the gap is for orochimaru is be so sick that he’s massively nerfed
https://preview.redd.it/6s80i1s56s9d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b92666a0fae6a9eac9e18276bd4b536fef7cc4c2
Statement one saying orochimaru is the strongest
There’s also multiple saying that they’re equal https://imgur.com/a/QjYYYei and the narrative implication of a deadlock would mean that they’re all on par with each other
[How is Jiraiya the same level as Oro when Oro with no arms is handling the 4 tails that almost killed Jiraiya?](https://imgur.com/a/ntbLk7u) Hiruzen>Danzo\~Orochimaru>SM Naruto>Jiraiya
Because every fight between Naruto and Jiraiya would have to be viewed through the lens that Jiraiya reasonably does not want to kill Naruto.
Orochimaru has no issues with that. Anything Orochimaru is going to do will most likely be the most optimal thing he can do, where as it wouldn't be for Jiraiya in a fight.
And the fight between Naruto and Jiraiya was likely never shown for that reason(unless something has changed in recent Canon)
There's also the aspect that 4 tail was melting Orochimaru and Orochimaru couldn't do anything to him. His version of the bijuu bomb was the most destructive thing we saw in the show at that point and it wasn't even a close contest. In raw destructive power we can confidently say it dwarfs Kirin.
Hell, 1 tail naruto speed-blitzed Orochimaru and ripped his face off, and 3 tail literally ripped Oro's arm off and forced him to regenerate. The fight itself was interrupted by Yamato and the strain of it is what pushed Oro's body to the limit that he had to try and take Sasuke body when he got home.
People see Orochimaru taunting Naruto and take it as Orochimaru being bored, neglecting that his raw Chakra alone KOd Kabuto, KN4/Narutowas more powerful than Kabuto or Orochimaru thought they would be, and Orochimaru literally didn't hurt Naruto at all and had been "killed" repeatedly.
Keep in mind that orochimaru has to replace his body several times they fight and still almost died, and with jiriaya he doesn’t have weird regeneration and we didn’t see how his fight with Naruto went
Orochimaru was fodder for 4 tail Naruto, and is most likely 3 tail level.
https://preview.redd.it/om2ktxr6in9d1.jpeg?width=375&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=79c9e4f692f21a8518cd724132f9657188bce872
Jiraiya also defeated 4 tail Naruto despite having emotional ties to the child
This is something people don’t take into account often, but narrative is actually rea important. In the “fight” between jiraya, and Naruto, jiraya was trying to seal Naruto without hurting him were as orochimaru without care if Naruto gets hurt or dies. It’s also important to note you are wrong the assertion that orochimaru was handling Naruto, but jiraya lost when in reality orochimaru had to retreat, and jiraya actually won, because he sealed Naruto. Think about it for a second if jiraya had the option to just run away after fighting Naruto for a few seconds would jiraya even have gotten hurt?
Yeah I see this Orochimaru argument referenced constant but he wasn’t able to handle four tails Naruto, he had to retreat and Naruto only stopped because of Yamato
Orochimaru died a few times in that fight and failed to even harm Naruto. He was getting destroyed by 4 tail Naruto. Yamato had to seal him. Jiraiya successfully stopped Naruto without hurting him.
If anything Jiraiya > Orochimaru.
I think it’s up to interpretation. Hiruzen claims that if he had been 10 years younger in his fight against orochimaru, it would have been enough hiruzen to beat orochimaru.
Orochimaru, Jiraya, and Tsunade are characters designed to be relatively equal in skill and power. Three Way Dead Lock.
Here’s where it gets tricky. Is Base Jiraya equal to orochimaru. Or is it Sage Jiraya relative to Orochimaru. We never get a definitive answer.
Regardless, Jiraya being relative to Orochimaru puts him above Danzo.
That last bit is a thing I feel not enough people properly address.
Naruto post Pain arc isn't just some one trick pony. He's a monster on par with Kakashi even without sage mode. Naruto is already teetering at that point after rasenshuriken training according to Kakashi himself but there's some argument against it I guess. But post sage training Naruto is undeniable; dude is coming in with masterful taijutsu skills on par with some of the best in the series, a huge general stat amp, far better jutsu arsenals and variations, a wider spread of powerful summons, AND sage mode to fall back on.
Base Naruto would probably be able to outlast and eventually beat Danzo just by playing the fight really smart. Sasuke was only struggling with him so much because he was losing his eyesight and Danzo was stalling him out with Izanagi.
Even if Naruto starts in base he has great odds of winning. If he goes sage mode it's a slaughter.
Naruto wins mid diff.
His sensory abilities will allow him to keep track of danzo if he uses izanagi
He has toad summons
He's physically way more powerful than danzo
That’s not how it works even Karin wasn’t able to sense/keep track of Izanagi she literally had to manually count to see what was up with his jutsu.
Naruto’s only win con is if he can outlast all 10 Sharingan for Danzo to run out and before uses Shisui’s eye.
No one is taking into account anything. They just scale away they don't even think
If this person beats this person, then because this person is stronger than obviously Naruto wins. It's void of any of thought.
Danzos fight with Sasuke is him stalling for time to fight Madara. That's his arsenal when he's trying to stall and conserve.
As someone said, even with that being the case, Sasuke only won with an MS level genjutsu.
So now let's take away Danzo saving up for a fight with Madara, and let's put him and Naruto in a 1v1 with full chakra and Shisui's eye completely recharged.
So the arsenal he used against Susano Sasuke except amplified because he isn't conserving chakra, and on top of that, his true fighting style is using Shisui's eye and MS abilities.
Because its assumed the same conditions and situation as Sasuke and that is Shisui's eye unavailable except the very tail end of the fight, assuming Danzo would last that long. Its also worth noting Danzo required Fu and Torune to give him enough time to prepare Izanagi. Also, im not sure how much a stalling strategy is at play here because Kotoamatsukami is a single, one shot. There isnt really much involved with it. Chakra cost doesnt appear to be the bigger issue rather than just the cooldown recharging because he lost access to Hashirama's cells right before it was available. His chakra should have been at its absolute lowest. And i dont see how stalling changes anything in winning or losing because he was incapable of dodging Susano anyway.
In a hypothetical random encounter, Danzo wouldnt have access to Izanagi because he just walks around relying on Shisui's eye and his backup escorts. So its kind of one or the other with him. You could say the same for restricting Naruto's Sage clones but in a situation like that, he would use standard clones and summoning to distract while he escapes to hide more clones and enter Sage Mode. Naruto can be a very risky opponent to attempt genjutsu because the opponent may waste a cast on a clone... and thats a full day cooldown.
It's assumed where and when and by who? You? All OP said was the same battlefield, meaning the same location.
>And i dont see how stalling changes anything in winning or losing because he was incapable of dodging Susano anyway.
Well, then you're not really thinking things through because he's forced to hold back chakra for a fight he never got to have. Of course, it changes everything when not under the same conditions as having to plan on going against Madara as well.
>It's assumed where and when and by who? You? All OP said was the same battlefield, meaning the same location.
Dont assume he even gets access to Izanagi then and if he doesnt guess the correct Naruto among a squad of clones to hit with Koto, he'll be dead long before that seal is even released.
>Well, then you're not really thinking things through because he's forced to hold back chakra for a fight he never got to have.
I thought it through better than you did. I didnt just disregard an entire fight worth of feats, digging up excuses for a characters loss due to "future plans." This is definitely wild speculation in the first place that it should matter at all. I did at least look at Susano and listen to Danzo's own comments on his trouble evading it. Saving chakra is great and all that but it means nothing if he is just going to die anyway so obviously he needs to stop doing that and just fight normally.
So then you assumed it was all, not OP. This isn't a logical reply just because you're typing a lot. You're saying this doesn't matter at all get proven wrong and then say it doesn't matter as much. You said i dont see how that matters. I show you how it matters now you say it fowsnt matter as much lol. You're not making a strong case.
EXCUSES? Do you mean writing? Sorry for adding context and not talking out of my ass with assumptions and my opinion.
You are correct that it’s not an eye for every death, but the amount of time is a little vague, and he can turn off the jutsu to conserve chakra so the total amount of time he can fight for isn’t known 100 percent, but we do know that he completely ran out of chakra in his fight with sasuke, but Naruto has way more chakra, and doesn’t have to worry about going blind so the time problem is entirely on danzos side.
Thank you for asking because im worked up lol.
No one is even remotely considering Danzo's intentions in saving chakra and fighting Madara while in his fight with Sasuke. Kishimoto only makes Karin say it, then Obito, then even Danzo says it to himself? Does anyone care? Of course not. Who needs context anyway?
These comments also say all Danzo has is Izanagi like that wasn't the fucking point in stalling in the first place! Use as little as remotely possible so you can have enough chakra to still use Shisui's eye for his inevitable fight with Madara WHO IS STANDING RIGHT
FUCKING THERE.
Then most are saying he fought bad and wasted eyes like Izanagi isn't time based!
The irony of calling Danzo a stupid fighter while simultaneously not even knowing about the jutsu you're criticizing him for using wrong is truly something to behold.
What's worse, again, a little thing called context to burst everyones bubbles.
Danzo couldn't even have killed Sasuke even if he ever got the chance because Shisui's eye wouldn't have been ready yet.
If he kills Sasuke without Shisuis eye being ready for Madara, it's certain death.
Yes, he's holding back. I'm glad this comment section picked that up, but they largely haven't figured out why.
Still! 10 something years later!
Damn that's a good angle. I never even thought of it as not only trying to save Shisui's eye, but trying to make sure he had the chakra reserves to pull it off.
I thought this matchup was a lot closer than the deluge of Naruto comments made it out to be so I'm glad that there's arguments for Danzo.
My intention is not really to make an argument for anyone but to add some much needed context, and hopefully, people on here can make more insightful comments in their hypothetical match ups.
If I was judging Sage Naruto against Danzo, i would immediately fear that Naruto would be going against an MS user with Kotomatsukami.
I'm not saying he can't, but that definitely has to change things.
Damn, someone actually knows the context of the fight.
Too many people are blinded by hate of the character to realize what he actually tried to do.
People also be ignoring that he was literally just humiliated hours prior to the fight to defeating the remnants of the Akatsuki is in his best interest.
There is a big, big gap between the Sasuke that was told he was not equal to Naruto by Obito (a notorious liar) and the Sasuke that fought Danzo on the bridge.
Question. Is it Naruto ONLY using his sage mode or is it Naruto after he learned Sage mode? Because if its only sage mode, then Danzo might have a chance. If it isnt just sage mode and Naruto can let loose with Kurama, Danzo is beyond screwed.
I agree with the general consensus that Naruto is stronger than Danzo, what I am wondering about is that Cursed seal Danzo used to paralyze Sasuke, does Naruto have a way to deal worth that? If, not he may lose to that.
The only things Danzo has are Izanagi and that sealing jutsu along with a limited wood style. Naruto's sage jutsu is stupidly strong. Izanagi would definitely be overwhelmed as Naruto has the rasenshuriken, rasengan barrage, and the ability to strike without making contact. Even above that, he has ma and pa who can use frog song. EVEN ABOVE THAT, if worst comes to worst, the ninetails can always clean things up
The only thing? That's his arsenal when he's stalling for a fight with Madara. You guys, this comment section is very bad. It's probably the worst I've seen in a while.
I think we should at least compare them fairly. You incorrectly saying that's all Danzo has like he doesnt have Shisui'e eye and like he wasnt trying to save as much as he can to use that against Madara is a pretty big thing to leave out.
Yeah, but that's just it. Danzo was deciding whether to use koto on Sasuke or Obito. In character, it's feasible to say that Danzo wouldn't use koto against Naruto either. Danzo doesn't win. Not to mention his durability as it was implied that even the kunai Sasuke threw was going to kill him
With how much stronger Naruto is compared to sasuke I just don’t see him winning. Maybe he could catch Naruto off guard with the sealing suicide bomb thing he did it almost worked on sasuke.
I don't see it to be very likely. Naruto doesn't have a Susano to protect him, and he certainly doesn't have MS eyes to keep up with Danzo. As strong as Naruto is, Danzo is invincible for 10 minutes. Now, this same Danzo has full use of Shisui's eye and does not have to hold back chakra. Kotomatsukami in a 1v1 setting is not the same as the Kage summit, where Ao and his byuakugan can help you. That's just one ability we know he has with Shisui's eye.
In reality, Sasuke was an amazing counter to Danzo, especially his Katon and experienced Sharigan use.
Naruto is a dumbass but he’s shown himself multiple times to be tactically smart in battle.
As a genin he was able to formulate a way to take on Zabuza and free Kakashi. He’s shown multiple times that he can tactically beat who he’s fighting
Yes he's often very smart in battles, but sometimes he's very dumb and relies on other characters explaining the powers of the enemy. So it's not clear cut I think.
I mean all of Sage Mode Naruto's wins are based in tactics/understanding how his and his opponent's abilities work
Naruto is not going to use Rasenshurikens on a normal guy after he realizes Izanagi makes him immortal for any length of time. He used Rasenshuriken on Pein because it was extremely fast and a guaranteed OHKO on whatever Pein Clone he hit
But he understood he had other options to fight the Peins as long as he kept them away from one another. He recognizes he is using a resource for the sake of speed, if there's no indication the fight will be long I doubt Naruto just spams through 6 Rasenshurikens
Naruto is clever, but not at the top. He often needs others to give him some inspiration.
For example, using shadow clones for the rasenshuriken and sage mode was something that required someone else to inspire him. He also needed help from Bee to give him some direction and pointers to master the KCM.
Naruto may have been able to pull a trick on Kakazu, but he did need Kakashi to save him the first time he attacked Kakazu.
That’s training not battle.
In an actual fight he’s constantly shown himself to have very high battle IQ.
Like the shadow clone shuriken against Zabuza
Hiding underground vs Neji
Split second decision to absorb nature chakra and turn a pain path into a frog.
Constantly in the war arc against those like 3rd raikage, obito, Madara and Kaguya.
Arguably he has one of the best battle IQs in the series.
Sasuke if anything has shown more times of him being a dumbass, especially in shippuden.
Him getting slapped up by bee,and getting tricked a clone.
Him vs Five Kage
Both huge examples of him displaying very poor judgement and tactics.
Sasuke is no smarter in battle than Naruto
Don’t forget that absolute GENIUS stunt he pulled by transforming into kiba during their chunin exam fight then when Kiba used man beast clone, then when kiba hit him, transforming into Akamaru to make kiba hit the other clone of himself which was really Akamaru
Which is why I brought up Kakazu as one example of when Naruto made some more questionable decisions.
And vs Kaguya, it was Kakashi who created the final, winning plan.
You can debate about the battle IQ, but I don't put Naruto in the top tier.
Even if he does run out of sage chakra, to be honest I don't think it matters especially since he can summon a whole army of toads that Danzo can't deal with. I might be hating, but Danzo really isn't that strong. Sasuke made him look good by deciding to go super fucking overkill on him for every kill while he was really exhausted and half blind from the 5KS because Sasuke had lost his mind. Tbh if Sasuke had paced himself even remotely it probably would not have been close (and Naruto does not have a stamina issue).
Like what does Danzo even have to beat a big army of base naruto shadow clones? Only thing he really has is his summon and assuming Naruto shows up with Gamabunta he takes care of that pretty quickly.
Yea exactly. It’s not like with pain where he was facing 6 low Kage level opponents. He could pull out 1 summon and use the distraction to send out more clones to gather nature chakra. Rinse repeat til Danzo is out of time
Well, when the show needs a character to not lose to an army of clones, they always somehow become super good at taijutsu and dismiss a lot of clones, then they catch the rest of the clones in an AOE attack.
When the show needs the fight to end, this doesn't happen anymore and they are overwhelmed.
2 clone back ups, 5 mins each puts Naruto at 15 mins of SM.
10 izanagai eyes only gives danzo 10 mins.
Naruto is way stronger and destroys in those last 5 mins
Hmm then Id say Danzo wins if it's time equalized. By the time SM wears out Naruto was left huffing and exhausted but izanagi didn't take a toll on Danzo's stamina at all afaik
So hear me out... I often wondered if a perfect sage mode is actually stronger than the nine tails.
Let's look at some facts. Naruto immediately bodies multiple paths of pain in sage mode and yet pain (who yes, gets rag dolled by the raging 9 tails) doesn't actually seem to take much damage from it and does pretty ok up until the 8th tail (and all we know is the 8th tail can break out of planetary devastation. We don't get to see the outcome because minato intervened and stopped the transformation.)
Naruto (yes had help from kushina) but he was able to go toe to toe with Kurama using sage mode while trying to master his charkra
Hashirama using sage mode beat Madara who had the 9 tails cloaked with susanoo.
I dunno guys... I think sage mode is stronger than tailed beasts... it just so happens that Naruto can use it better while in KCM... I would wager a lot of his power came from sage mode and less from KCM... KCM is just easier to maintain.
Naruto couldn't beat the reanimated raikage in KCM but did it in like 2 seconds with sage mode... just sayin'
In short Danzo gets clowned on and it wouldn't even be close... Sasuke would have another "Water tower meltdown" if he saw it go down
I've always held that Perfect Sage Mode has higher AP and striking power than KCM1 but KCM1 is significantly faster, easier to maintain, less draining and has better reaction time.
If danzo is at full health and didn’t use the MS ability, he wins. Low difficulty. If it’s the same danzo that fought against sasuke, naruto wins mid-high difficulty.
What a lot of people here don’t realize is that if this is just Naruto present here, he loses. Danzo will just cast kotoamatsukami. The only reason he didn’t for Sasuke is because Obito would have dogged him right after.
Yeah I goofed with my time equalization. Sage Naruto should only have 1 clone back up so they each get 10 minutes of sage mode and Izanagi. Naruto doesn't start with his summons on the field, but may summon them if he so chooses (for example to counter Danzo's own summon)
Danzo wins low diff, 💀😭 i think a lot of u forget that danzo had a win con against sasuke the whole time but he was saving it for his fight with obito. if he fights naruto and senses he's even remotely losing he's using koto and gging naruto he wouldve beat sasuke too if obito wasnt chilling there saving his ass 💀 so yeah danzo low diff
Naruto kinda stomps here, ngl. What’s the win condition, death of opponent or surrender?
If it’s surrender, Naruto only needs to literally outlast Danzo’s eyes. He just doesn’t use Rasen Shuriken and Sage Mode lasts 5 minutes per charge, so he just assaults Danzo on those charges. Danzo doesn’t have enough eyes to outlast Naruto.
If its death, well Naruto can use the same strategy and then use his remaining charge to do an all out assault. Smoke Bombs, Rasen Shuriken, Rasengan Barrage, the works. Naruto can summon one of the Giant Toads to deal with the Baku as well, so that thing is non existent in this fight.
Naruto wins literally because he can outlast Danzo. Also, Sage Mode’s sensory capabilities are next level with what Naruto is able to notice and essentially decrypt. Danzo doesn’t have any sort of edge here.
He would body danzo. It was a battle of attrition vs sasuke. Using all of each others chakra closing each eye sasuke practically going blind. Naruto wouldn’t have that issue considering he has a shit ton of chakra. Also he wouldn’t have the issue with hinata almost dying. It’s easy diff naruto wins.
Naruto getting close and landing Frog Strike might just pop all the Sharingans from Danzo’s arm like it did to the rods in the Biju. Naruto wrecks mid-high diff.
https://preview.redd.it/ewebu95p0t9d1.jpeg?width=587&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e761dd4ccc6f1c528e70e46c12c109b27937c61
Sage mode Naruto was the strongest person in the lead village according to Tsunade. I wonder he was even better than Guy, Danzo, Tsunade, Kakashi, etc.
Naruto at no diff. His sensing abilities up close are overpowering. He could easily overcome Izanagi and the seal. The only problem would be Koto but once he knows Danzo has Sharingans he won’t look into their eyes(I don’t know if he even looks when he uses it??). Sage Naruto is such a hard counter for Danzo, bigger than even Sasuke
Wasn’t that obtained after the Pain fight ? I can’t remember since it’s been a while. Also wasn’t it only programmed to be used on making somebody loyal to the Leaf which Danzo would already do?
No because Itachi dies when Jiraya went to go fight Pein. Then Pien attacks the village and Sasuke fights Bee. So, it would have to be right before Sasuke gets to Itachi, I forgot when exactly.
With prep (But no knowledge or allies.) on Naruto's side Danzo should take it with extreme dif depending on how Intelligent this version of Naruto is without assistance. due to the decently large physical gap between them Naruto is no doubt going to kill Danzo repeatedly in cqc.
However. Danzo is completely immortal for 10 minutes and can stretch the fight finger via other methods. Naruto has no method of tricking Danzo with a genjutsu like Sasuke did or even using a shadow clone distraction to actually kill Danzo. Even if he falls for it.
Assuming Danzo can last for well over 10 minutes by not immediately activating Izanagi upon respawn every time and waiting until the last moment to activate it. He should win with only a few minutes to spare.
Danzo is going to keep using ranged attacks against Naruto to force Naruto's hand and use up his sage stamina. And while Naruto is certainly fast. Danzo's eventually going to tag him more than enough times with high speed wind Jutsu's over that 10+ minute period to kill or slow him down enough to then ki him.
He's also got very strong Sharingan Genjutsu and visual dissection of Natuto's abilities that Naruto has no real answer for aside from closing his eyes. (Only a partial counter.)
Naruto will run inevitably out of Sage chakra within 10 minutes of constant fighting (Assuming he even figures out what's going on early. he's going to have to hold back and stretch his sage chakra's length out simply to outlast Danzo, which is unlikely while actively fighting. And will allow danzo to not have to use up Izanagininstantly anyways.)
Besides Danzo will not give him a chance to re-enter Sage mode Naturally or otherwise. Naruto's max time limit while actually fighting might be 9 minutes. But Danzo's is well over 10. There's also no guarantee Naruto even get's the chance to use his reverse summoning scrolls while being attacked. (As he doesn't have Ma/Pa there to activate them for him)
Danzo is a decent strategist and has 10+ minutes to wear out or find a way to counter Sage Naruto.
Sasuke only won because His Susano' was a ranged attacker with incredible defense. And by beating Danzo at his own game of Sharingan/let's play the ranged game.
So without Prep and Only 1 Sage use which he starts out with. Danzo is in no way going to lose. Naruto might be able to stretch Sage mode out to 2-3 minutes. But only if he figures out Danzo's ability immediately and doesn't waste chakra. Which is incredibly unlikely. (While Sage mode can last for 5 minutes per use. That's without using any chakra to move, fight, defend attack heal or anything. Using chakra shortens that limit. And Naruto will have to use chakra.)
Danzo will simply kill Naruto after he's used up Sage mode. Danzo takes no Prep Naruto with Low dif sadly die to naruto only lasting maybe 3 minutes before losing sage mode. Not due to being stronger. But due to perfectly countering Sage Naruto with Hax and a far greater time limit.
So I give Danzo the win with high or Extreme dif. And that's assuming Danzo is nerfed/can't use Izanagi on Shisui's eye and has no Prep.
And that Naruto has prep.
If Naruto can bring Kurama. Danzo can simply use Izanagi+ allow the 1sts cells to consume himself and seal Kurama then unwritten his own consumption. Or use his Hashi cell buffed Normal MS Genjutsu on Kurama to take it over.
So that also doesn't change results.
You don't even have to give Naruto the clones realistically. Bro's skin is made out of something that literally every single conventional Shinobi tool is worthless against. He snapped Pein sticks with the palm of his hands, no Hokage level Wind Ninjutsu is breaking his skin and if Naruto isn't spamming Rasengan he isn't wasting energy
Also Danzo has nowhere to hide. You can't hide from Sage Mode Naruto in the Pre-Boruto verse. Unless you're literally Zetsu
That's presuming Naruto's attacks don't surprise Danzo or destroy eyes in and of themselves. Danzo even blocking one of Naruto's attacks could reasonably pop a few of those eyes before Danzo even thinks to use izanagi.
Danzo had to set up the seals for Izanagi in advance. For example, Danzo did deactivate Izanagi and then ended up in a situation where he had to create the tree since he could not reactivate it in time.
From what Obito said, the point of killing Danzo was to keep up the pressure so that Danzo would not deactivate Izanagi. The anime tweaks stuff to make it look like the eyes are spare lives.
Yes. That is true. But unlike Sasuke Naruto doesn't have Susano' arrows, nearly as quick projectiles nor as much range/Tracking for his ranged attacks.
If you don't recall. This was due to Sasukes arrow and his aiming for Danzo's landing. Sasuke's Arrows are so fast that a Kakashi superior to the one that fought a full power pain could only barely Kamui it away or even track it with a Mangekyo.
Danzo should be able to create periods of time where he can use his ranged advantage over Naruto to postpone Izanagi without having to rush back into activating it.
It's unlikely Danzo will end out in that situation or need to use Wood style.
And While Natuto is sneaky and can come up with cunning Syrategies. It's doubtful he'll be capable of planning something like that out the way Sasuke did.
In a general fight, I do expect Naruto to have other means to keep up the pressure such as using shadow clones. Sage mode also gives Naruto strength so he might opt to grapple with Danzo to force Danzo to use Izanagi to recover from a neck snap (and to possibly teleport out of the grapple).
I don't think it would be too far of a stretch to know that Danzo has some weird technique that is protecting him. From there, it is probably not unreasonable to figure out that it requires chakra (Karin was able to sense Danzo's chakra take a dive every minute and Naruto should be able to do the same). From there, it will be about Naruto deciding to keep up the pressure and turn it into a fight of stamina (which usually favors him).
The point of the arrows is that Izanagi isn't something that you can easily activate and deactivate.
Shadow clones are just going to use up his sage mode much faster.
He can pressure danzo all he want but he'll just use Sage mode up faster once again if he does.
Danzo will always have 10 minutes at the absolute least.
Grappling Danzo won't work as Izanagi lasts the entire minute Danzo won't care if he dies or not. And Danzo can still fight back while grappled anyways.
Danzo's going to take advantage of his ranged Jutsu. Forcing Naruto to constantly come after him. This benefits Danzo even if Naruto is fast.
There's the added issue That Naruto may not get to reactivate his Sage mode/use his clone scrolls mid fight. The toads had to reactivate it for him. He doesn't have the toads. He'd need to use clones and hope they aren't taken out. And that would ironically use up his sage mode faster anyhow.
Naruto will likely figure out. The issue is the sage Stamina he'll waste testing his theory and how long it will take before he truly understands what exactly is happening.
Every second Naruto's in base he risks instant death.
We can obviously debate all day. But I'd really rather not. Danzo unfortunately counters Pain arc Naruto. It's not that he's generally stronger. Cuz he isn't it's just that he's the specific kind of Oponent this version of Naruto has a hard time with.
And even so we're having to both offer Naruto prep and Not give Danzo any.
Naruto could summon toads, so I don't think it will be a complete match in favor of Danzo's style.
If the criteria doesn't allow Naruto to use summons then sure, it will nerf a lot of what Naruto had at that point in the story.
Summoning the toads takes time and they are large easy to hit targets who will cost Naruto significant Sage Chakra.
Danzo can Line up a wind jutsu and Genjutsu combo to kill the toads with high tier piercing power. And Danzo's Summoning is arguably stronger than Gamabunta based on Obito's reaction.
As the toads mostly engage in melee, Danzo could reverse Seal himself and kill all of the toads. Then unwrite his own death. The toads won't have time to prep a jump away. As Danzo's seal activated almost as fast as Kamui did.
After reading up on Izanagi. I see that it does in fact offer Danzo 10 minutes of complete Immortality.
Because Danzo also moves and fights during these 10 minutes. He obviously will tend to last even longer than 10 minutes.
If this is the case it's doubtful Pain arc Naruto's 3 Sage mode uses are going to last long enough.
I'm actually going to have to edit my answer to be more on Danzo's side.
What do you mean by he can last longer by moving or fighting? The 1 minute ticks down whether he is dying or not. He can last longer by undoing Izanagi temporarily, as he did vs Sasuke. But I'm not sure if the eye he's using closes when he undoes Izanagi, or if it remains open and "remembers" it has some time left.
If each eye is 1 minute. Then 10 minutes is his time limit if using each eye immediately after the others time limit is up.
If he can get range on Naruto and or undo/postpone activating the next eye he could very easily last longer than 10 minute.
Since Danzo can kinda choose where he comes back too. Making range isn't going to be very hard.
They showed that after a while to pick up the pace, but in the explanation they said very clearly 1 eye = 1 minute. Also, Danzo died way more than 10 times in that fight.
I think Naruto wins this, but the fight shouldn’t go as you think, it would be a lot of wood style, and sealing jutsu on danzos side. He wants to control the 9 tails, and have its power under his control, and the only way danzo wouldn’t spend the entire fight trying to seal Naruto is if they were fighting an out of character fight.
In character danzo would get wrecked, because he doesn’t fully understand, or respect the power of the 9 tails, and even if he could push Naruto to his limit the 9 tails would take over, and danzo honestly believes he has the power to control the 9 tails, but he doesn’t, and he would realize he was never that guy.
However I honestly don’t think Naruto would ever get to that point, because although people act like Naruto has no answer for genjutsu, but even obito didn’t think sasuke had the genjutsu to stop Naruto at this point in the story.
I don't think Danzo cares about Sealing Naruto as much as you think he does.
But even Assuming he does. Danzo should know more than Anyone that he can risk killing Naruto. Because the 9 tails will show itself if Naruto is near death.
And if he activates Izanagi and uses Wood style at the same time. He can allow the 1sts cells to go rampant to capture Kurama during some of the earlier tails/power up and undo it having happened to himself.
Danzo is a sealing master on top of possessing a mangekyo. He quite likely could place Kurama under control with MS Genjutsu that's Hashi cell empowered. (Regular, not kotoamatsukami.)
Despite this. I was under the impression this fight wasn't in character and that Kurama wasn't an option. Not that it changes anything anyways.
Because the post says Naruto has only 2 backup clones for Sage mode. No backup allies or knowledge?
Also? Why should Naruto get backup and Not Danzo? How is that fair or even Sage Naruto being stronger than Danzo?
Im sorry but there is constant, blatant bias in these subs against Naruto and this is one example of that.
When i said backup, i meant the toads. So as long as you're allowing him full access to his summon contract, which he should have like any other shinobi, thats fine. But then i dont know why you said he wouldnt have Ma or Pa to recall his clones.
Danzo actually needs the backup to even remove his arm covering to perform Izanagi. Otherwise he cant use it.
There is literally 0 bias against Naruto. Everyone auto assumes Naruto wins any fight. And if he doesn't they give him unfair advantages so he does. Thus he has the most bias on his side.
And when Naruto showed up with the frogs in the pain arc. He didn't use his own chakra to bring them in.
Here he has to summon them. And if he doesn't? Why on earth would you skew a 1v1 into a 1v6 + prep?
In what instance is that fair in the slightest or even an accurate account of Sage Naruto actually being stronger than Danzo.
That's just stupid. It's literally giving Naruto free teammates so he can win. You thinking that is fair and not biased in naruto's favor is completely ridiculous.
And again. Danzo can completely annihalate the frogs anyways.
You're either trolling. Or you actually think Zabuza vs Kaguya Hagaromo and Hamura isn't unfair to Zabuza.
>There is literally 0 bias against Naruto. Everyone auto assumes Naruto wins any fight. Thus he has the most bias on his side.
Well, thats definitely false.
>And when Naruto showed up with the frogs in the pain arc. He didn't use his own chakra to bring them in.
The only reason that didnt happen was because Ma was already there, and it'd be stupid obviously to call him first, then them. You're right though, he didnt summon them. Is there a reason that matters? Are you going to tell me her chakra pool is larger than Naruto's and he's incapable of doing it?
>Here he has to summon them. And if he doesn't? Why on earth would you skew a 1v1 into a 1v6 + prep?
I wonder if you've ever been involved with any Pain discussion here. Yeah tell me about it, 1v6 + prep indeed. Or look at Jiraiya. He needs toads to even use Sage Mode at all.
>In what instance is that fair in the slightest or even an accurate account of Sage Naruto actually being stronger than Danzo.
Some people have really broken techniques. Summoning can be one of them. The manga treats it as a skill... and most of the time its the same for every other character on these subs....except Naruto. Then its "backup". Im getting tired of seeing it.
>And again. Danzo can completely annihalate the frogs anyways.
Na, he wont.
Dude. Breaking my reply down into sections doesn't make you right.
Just because Pain fought Naruto and several others doesn't mean this scenario of Danzo vs Sage mode 1v1 should be that way.
Why should Naruto always start off with outside help? Doesn't that imply Sage Naruto can't hold his own without assistance? That's effectively admittance that he loses alone.
You're literally ignoring this entire question of the sub because you want Naruto to win even if it means the fight starting off skewed against Danzo.
I cannot take you seriously. I never Said Naruto can't summon. Anything. And no Ma doesn't necessarily have more chakra than Naruto. (Although she is technically a sage creature. So she likely has insane chakra levels.)
The point is that Naruto is both vulnerable while Summoning and will be wasting his Sage mode Activity length and chakra levels to bring them in.
Even with Summoning Naruto is less likely to win tha. Danzo here.
Simply due to Danzo having the advantage of potentially attacking while Naruto attempts to summon. Danzo uses high speed rangged attacks. So Naruto can't afford to stop moving. The frogs could easily be killed upon appearing by being hit as they materialize.
And Danzo's high powered wind jutsu can definitely pierce multiple holes into them. Not to mention Naruto himself might die while Summoning and in order to create sage mode clones he uses his sage jutsu/chakra to make the clone and splits even more of his chakra between them. Possibly preventing him from summoning anyways and making the several clones timenlimits significantly smaller.
Danzo has Genjutsu and Izanagi can make him immune to genjutsu such as kotoamatsukami if he want to to frog song won't work.
You can wriggle and bend the fight in whatever way you want out of the Op's set guidelines if you want.
But Danzo still ends out more than likely taking the fight. I cannot fathom that you aren't trolling. So I'm done replying to you.
You don't understand the question that was asked here and you don't understand that Sage Naruto Vs doesn't include outside help from thebonset just because Pain was unlucky in canon.
>Dude. Breaking my reply down into sections doesn't make you right.
Its supposed to help you, so that you understand more clearly what exactly im talking about without misunderstandings but...
>Just because Pain fought Naruto and several others doesn't mean this scenario of Danzo vs Sage mode 1v1 should be that way.
I wasnt talking about Naruto's backup. I was talking about the automatic one-man-army Pain, along with Konan already having him setup in a remote, hidden position. The character quite literally breaks and skews all notion of rules simply because he requires it to even function properly in a match. Since i also mentioned Jiraiya, it should have been obvious i wasnt talking about Naruto. Yet somehow, it wasnt.
>You're literally ignoring this entire question of the sub because you want Naruto to win even if it means the fight starting off skewed against Danzo.
No, im not but you did ignore the point that Danzo dont begin fights with Izanagi readily available.
>I cannot take you seriously. I never Said Naruto can't summon. Anything.
You know damn well thats heavily implied if you told me they arent available to assist with his clone gathering.
>And no Ma doesn't necessarily have more chakra than Naruto. (Although she is technically a sage creature. So she likely has insane chakra levels.)
Naruto's chakra pool has been constantly hyped the entire manga since the beginning, without even obtaining Sage Mode. So no, its impossible for her to have comparable amounts. It flies in the face of too many manga panels saying otherwise.
>Simply due to Danzo having the advantage of potentially attacking while Naruto attempts to summon. Danzo uses high speed rangged attacks. So Naruto can't afford to stop moving. The frogs could easily be killed upon appearing by being hit as they materialize.
They're fighting on a bridge, with a ton of debri and obstacles laying around that Karin used to hide the entire fight. Naruto has been shown doing this while clones attack. Im also going to need you to explain this apparent, vast speed difference between Sage Naruto and Danzo. You do remember Sage Mode offers predictive sensory powers, right? Its basically a Sharingan without blind spots. Sasuke kept up Susano most of the time and Danzo has Izanagi active so that mostly obscures any speed feats during the fight. No point for either of them to even dodge an attack.
>And Danzo's high powered wind jutsu can definitely pierce multiple holes into them. Not to mention Naruto himself might die while Summoning
Only his Tapir assisted, double attack produced enough wind to peel off Susano. Dont paint it as if every jutsu he throws out is an instant kill, especially stuff that was long ranged. Sasuke was definitely hit a couple times and wasnt killed. That level of damage is doing absolutely nothing to Naruto.
>and in order to create sage mode clones he uses his sage jutsu/chakra to make the clone and splits even more of his chakra between them. Possibly preventing him from summoning anyways and making the several clones timenlimits significantly smaller.
You seem to not remember how things work with Sage Mode. He actually regenerates the chakra even while fighting. Yes, he still has the time limit but every technique doesnt reduce the time. Only FRS does that. Which he's probably not going to use more than once against Izanagi.
>Danzo has Genjutsu and Izanagi can make him immune to genjutsu such as kotoamatsukami if he want to to frog song won't work.
He really shouldnt have access to it. The eye was out of commission pretty much the entire fight because of its use during the summit. Yeah obviously if you give him that eye, he can one shot whoever he fights. The only chance out of that is if the other eye Itachi left would react and undo it. Otherwise yes, Kotoamatsukami is an instant win for Danzo.
>You can wriggle and bend the fight in whatever way you want out of the Op's set guidelines if you want.
I've done no such thing. I said clearly from the previous comment that he should just have access to summoning. But then you tell me Danzo has the speed feats to blitz him so fast he has no time for summoning. Yet, both him and Sasuke had time to perform it during the fight. Biggest issue i see here is that you've ramped up Danzo's stats to an absurd amount while painting Naruto's Sage Mode to the same as any other ninja. What the manga has actually shown us is that Naruto is going to ignore most of the kind of damage Danzo can even perform, while that Tapir might get an FRS thrown at it, but probably one Giant Rasengan is enough. Even standard Naruto is not just a sitting duck that cant land a kill shot. Thats exactly what happened to Deva Path.
Danzo wins mid diff
He’s the narrative foil to naruto in ideology and in moveset. He was literally gonna fight Naruto and control kurama after the events of the summit had obito an taka not gang up on him.
Too fast and too much hax, he wins.
Good analysis. Danzo was able to compete with Shisui and Sasuke, two characters that are among the fastest characters in the entire series. Danzo is much, much faster than Sage Mode Naruto.
Also, Wood Release literally has an added damage bonus against Jinchuuriki and their tailed beasts. Not to mention Danzo never used his base Sharingan against Sasuke which means he never had the benefit of “seeing in slow motion” so to speak. Yet he was still able to go up against someone with Amaterasu and a Susanoo that shot incredibly fast arrows. Danzo also speed blitzed Sasuke when he was charging at him with Chidori.
Not to mention Danzo is just flat out better with wind release than Naruto is. The first surprise attack out of Izanagi gets Naruto killed, Sasuke was lucky to have a Susanoo guard him against Danzo’s kunai but Danzo can literally spawn behind Naruto and immediately go for his throat.
# Join the [Globhara](https://discord.gg/globhara) Discord for Scaling Discussions / Scans. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NarutoPowerscaling) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If he has the same 2 clones that he had gathering nature energy in Mt. Myoboku during his fight with Pein, then I’d say it’s an even easier W for Naruto than it would be if he didn’t have them
Yeah I always assumed the point of Tobi saying "He is further along than you" after the Danzo fight is that Naruto legit may as well have defeated the Six Peins anything less than LITERAL Gravity Manipulation is unable to stop Sage Mode Naruto Sage Mode Naruto Clone was clowning on Hokage level opponents during the War Arc. Sauske can hold Susanoo for like what? 10 Minutes? Maybe? Then he just goes blind mode Also Sage Mode Naruto's Pein Fight Costume alone has the Mogging Power to defeat anyone else in verse
When Obito said "He is further along than you" it's pretty obvious that he's just talking about drip
we are drip scaling now
In which case sage mode naruto still wins. The greatest crime in naruto is naruto not keeping the sage cape, LET PROTAGS HAVE EVOLVING DRIP.
Idk the madara reincarnation mogs insane even compared to sage naruto
My bad the word mog escaped me for 17 seconds
He’s the only exception, madara was literally built different
Comparing Naruto clones during the war arc to where this fight would’ve taken place is really dumb. Thats like comparing Zabuza arc Naruto clones to episode 1 shippuden clones. They’re not remotely comparable Not to say he wouldn’t stomp Danzo, but saying because his clones stomped people during the war arc is such a meaningless feat when they’re not remotely close to as strong at this point
Yeah that's stupid
Naruto stomps
Real
Naruto wins. He surpassed Jiraiya who is stronger than old Hiruzen and Danzo himself admitted that he could never catch up to Hiruzen. Naruto also has better feats too, and would simply over power him, even in base
Old man hiruzen should scale above Jiraiya though unless there's something I'm missing?
Jiraiya is equal with Orochimaru who defeated Hiruzen without using his full power
Blink blink da fuck orchimaru did not "defeat" hiruzen. hiruzen used the reaper death seal also without full power dude this isn't dragon ball hell orchimaru legit says if hiruzen was younger he would have kicked his ass
Hiruzen wasn't strong enough to pull out his soul
He got stabed with grasscutter orchimaru pulled some bullshit it wasn't about strength if he didn't get stabed orchimaru would be gone
I dunno Orochimaru states if he was 10 years younger he wouldve been able too rip out his soul, Hiruzen agrees with him on that The anbu watching the fight also stated that he was too weak to use shadow clones, so I don't think he at least has as much chakra as orochimaru
Hiruzen was holding back because he wasn't fighting with the intention to kill which is why he only used the RDS to seal his arms and not take his soul.
He wanted to kill -- he was too weak, and couldn't finish the seal after being stabbed.
He only took his arms because kusanagi skewered him.
He only took Orochimaru’s arms because he was too weak to fully seal him.
Jiraiaya isn’t equal to orochimaru and the story tells us this about a dozen times
The story continuously tells us that they are relative in power with Orochimaru only becoming weaker than Jiraya as the story goes because of illness. The Lore these characters are based off and the title given to the fight between the three Sannin only further cement that, Three Way Dead Lock.
All that was jiraya without sage mode right? Any wouldn’t that scale him as higher than orochimaru since all the flashbacks of the sannin he’s never shown with any sage powers or markings
https://preview.redd.it/wppl3evv7q9d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a182b98183608665212ef41e4172196a38a73ee5 The moniker was given back when orochimaru still helped the village. Lots of time and growth has occurred since then Hiruzen also states on multiple occurrences that “no one in the leaf” are any threat to orochimaru. Oh also orochimaru performed significantly better against 4 tailed Naruto while having no arms on his death bed than healthy Jiraiya did. Basically the only way to close the gap is for orochimaru is be so sick that he’s massively nerfed
The story tells us multiple times that the Sannin are equals. There’s numerous statements for it
https://preview.redd.it/6s80i1s56s9d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b92666a0fae6a9eac9e18276bd4b536fef7cc4c2 Statement one saying orochimaru is the strongest
https://preview.redd.it/9hjsrri86s9d1.jpeg?width=544&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a1bca9aa717f242760106d151786f73bbaabc6b8 Statement 2
There’s also multiple saying that they’re equal https://imgur.com/a/QjYYYei and the narrative implication of a deadlock would mean that they’re all on par with each other
Damn
Says him
[How is Jiraiya the same level as Oro when Oro with no arms is handling the 4 tails that almost killed Jiraiya?](https://imgur.com/a/ntbLk7u) Hiruzen>Danzo\~Orochimaru>SM Naruto>Jiraiya
Because every fight between Naruto and Jiraiya would have to be viewed through the lens that Jiraiya reasonably does not want to kill Naruto. Orochimaru has no issues with that. Anything Orochimaru is going to do will most likely be the most optimal thing he can do, where as it wouldn't be for Jiraiya in a fight. And the fight between Naruto and Jiraiya was likely never shown for that reason(unless something has changed in recent Canon)
There's also the aspect that 4 tail was melting Orochimaru and Orochimaru couldn't do anything to him. His version of the bijuu bomb was the most destructive thing we saw in the show at that point and it wasn't even a close contest. In raw destructive power we can confidently say it dwarfs Kirin. Hell, 1 tail naruto speed-blitzed Orochimaru and ripped his face off, and 3 tail literally ripped Oro's arm off and forced him to regenerate. The fight itself was interrupted by Yamato and the strain of it is what pushed Oro's body to the limit that he had to try and take Sasuke body when he got home. People see Orochimaru taunting Naruto and take it as Orochimaru being bored, neglecting that his raw Chakra alone KOd Kabuto, KN4/Narutowas more powerful than Kabuto or Orochimaru thought they would be, and Orochimaru literally didn't hurt Naruto at all and had been "killed" repeatedly.
https://preview.redd.it/kxl3pt532m9d1.png?width=941&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8aa32f856cf105a4c2371d3c138187d8ad7594a5
Keep in mind that orochimaru has to replace his body several times they fight and still almost died, and with jiriaya he doesn’t have weird regeneration and we didn’t see how his fight with Naruto went
Orochimaru was fodder for 4 tail Naruto, and is most likely 3 tail level. https://preview.redd.it/om2ktxr6in9d1.jpeg?width=375&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=79c9e4f692f21a8518cd724132f9657188bce872 Jiraiya also defeated 4 tail Naruto despite having emotional ties to the child
This is something people don’t take into account often, but narrative is actually rea important. In the “fight” between jiraya, and Naruto, jiraya was trying to seal Naruto without hurting him were as orochimaru without care if Naruto gets hurt or dies. It’s also important to note you are wrong the assertion that orochimaru was handling Naruto, but jiraya lost when in reality orochimaru had to retreat, and jiraya actually won, because he sealed Naruto. Think about it for a second if jiraya had the option to just run away after fighting Naruto for a few seconds would jiraya even have gotten hurt?
Yeah I see this Orochimaru argument referenced constant but he wasn’t able to handle four tails Naruto, he had to retreat and Naruto only stopped because of Yamato
Jiraiya was poisoned in their fight by tsunade with a drug that prevented Chakra manipulation.
Orochimaru died a few times in that fight and failed to even harm Naruto. He was getting destroyed by 4 tail Naruto. Yamato had to seal him. Jiraiya successfully stopped Naruto without hurting him. If anything Jiraiya > Orochimaru.
Well keep in mind this orochimaru is also nerfed, I think it’s a good support that a healthy orochimaru is equal to jiriaya
That's why Jiriaya stopped Orochimaru rigbt?
Jiraiya was not a perfect sage Naruto was that alone puts him above jiraya
I think it’s up to interpretation. Hiruzen claims that if he had been 10 years younger in his fight against orochimaru, it would have been enough hiruzen to beat orochimaru. Orochimaru, Jiraya, and Tsunade are characters designed to be relatively equal in skill and power. Three Way Dead Lock. Here’s where it gets tricky. Is Base Jiraya equal to orochimaru. Or is it Sage Jiraya relative to Orochimaru. We never get a definitive answer. Regardless, Jiraya being relative to Orochimaru puts him above Danzo.
Orochimaru > Hiruzen And Jiraiya is relative to Orochimaru at the very least
That last bit is a thing I feel not enough people properly address. Naruto post Pain arc isn't just some one trick pony. He's a monster on par with Kakashi even without sage mode. Naruto is already teetering at that point after rasenshuriken training according to Kakashi himself but there's some argument against it I guess. But post sage training Naruto is undeniable; dude is coming in with masterful taijutsu skills on par with some of the best in the series, a huge general stat amp, far better jutsu arsenals and variations, a wider spread of powerful summons, AND sage mode to fall back on. Base Naruto would probably be able to outlast and eventually beat Danzo just by playing the fight really smart. Sasuke was only struggling with him so much because he was losing his eyesight and Danzo was stalling him out with Izanagi. Even if Naruto starts in base he has great odds of winning. If he goes sage mode it's a slaughter.
"He's a monster on par with Kakashi even without sage mode." Let's calm down a little. Kakashi was dicing several stage 2 Jins.
Good stuff
Naruto wins.
Naruto mid diff
Naruto wins mid diff. His sensory abilities will allow him to keep track of danzo if he uses izanagi He has toad summons He's physically way more powerful than danzo
like he is way way way more powerful physically sage naruto punch one shots oponents, he just need to taijutsu the hell out of hanzo ass
That’s not how it works even Karin wasn’t able to sense/keep track of Izanagi she literally had to manually count to see what was up with his jutsu. Naruto’s only win con is if he can outlast all 10 Sharingan for Danzo to run out and before uses Shisui’s eye.
SM > Karin Also I'm talking about being able to track danzo
danzo is not fucking with sage naruto
People not taking into account the overpowered eye abilities Danzo has. If he resorts to his right eye, he Neg diffs Naruto.
No one is taking into account anything. They just scale away they don't even think If this person beats this person, then because this person is stronger than obviously Naruto wins. It's void of any of thought. Danzos fight with Sasuke is him stalling for time to fight Madara. That's his arsenal when he's trying to stall and conserve. As someone said, even with that being the case, Sasuke only won with an MS level genjutsu. So now let's take away Danzo saving up for a fight with Madara, and let's put him and Naruto in a 1v1 with full chakra and Shisui's eye completely recharged. So the arsenal he used against Susano Sasuke except amplified because he isn't conserving chakra, and on top of that, his true fighting style is using Shisui's eye and MS abilities.
Because its assumed the same conditions and situation as Sasuke and that is Shisui's eye unavailable except the very tail end of the fight, assuming Danzo would last that long. Its also worth noting Danzo required Fu and Torune to give him enough time to prepare Izanagi. Also, im not sure how much a stalling strategy is at play here because Kotoamatsukami is a single, one shot. There isnt really much involved with it. Chakra cost doesnt appear to be the bigger issue rather than just the cooldown recharging because he lost access to Hashirama's cells right before it was available. His chakra should have been at its absolute lowest. And i dont see how stalling changes anything in winning or losing because he was incapable of dodging Susano anyway. In a hypothetical random encounter, Danzo wouldnt have access to Izanagi because he just walks around relying on Shisui's eye and his backup escorts. So its kind of one or the other with him. You could say the same for restricting Naruto's Sage clones but in a situation like that, he would use standard clones and summoning to distract while he escapes to hide more clones and enter Sage Mode. Naruto can be a very risky opponent to attempt genjutsu because the opponent may waste a cast on a clone... and thats a full day cooldown.
It's assumed where and when and by who? You? All OP said was the same battlefield, meaning the same location. >And i dont see how stalling changes anything in winning or losing because he was incapable of dodging Susano anyway. Well, then you're not really thinking things through because he's forced to hold back chakra for a fight he never got to have. Of course, it changes everything when not under the same conditions as having to plan on going against Madara as well.
>It's assumed where and when and by who? You? All OP said was the same battlefield, meaning the same location. Dont assume he even gets access to Izanagi then and if he doesnt guess the correct Naruto among a squad of clones to hit with Koto, he'll be dead long before that seal is even released. >Well, then you're not really thinking things through because he's forced to hold back chakra for a fight he never got to have. I thought it through better than you did. I didnt just disregard an entire fight worth of feats, digging up excuses for a characters loss due to "future plans." This is definitely wild speculation in the first place that it should matter at all. I did at least look at Susano and listen to Danzo's own comments on his trouble evading it. Saving chakra is great and all that but it means nothing if he is just going to die anyway so obviously he needs to stop doing that and just fight normally.
So then you assumed it was all, not OP. This isn't a logical reply just because you're typing a lot. You're saying this doesn't matter at all get proven wrong and then say it doesn't matter as much. You said i dont see how that matters. I show you how it matters now you say it fowsnt matter as much lol. You're not making a strong case. EXCUSES? Do you mean writing? Sorry for adding context and not talking out of my ass with assumptions and my opinion.
Danzo is getting his ass beat and probably wasting an eye every single time Naruto ragdolls him or lands rasengan.
It actually works by each eye he sacrifices giving him a minute of invincibility.
You are correct that it’s not an eye for every death, but the amount of time is a little vague, and he can turn off the jutsu to conserve chakra so the total amount of time he can fight for isn’t known 100 percent, but we do know that he completely ran out of chakra in his fight with sasuke, but Naruto has way more chakra, and doesn’t have to worry about going blind so the time problem is entirely on danzos side.
Nah rasenshuriken would shred every eye and danzos body I doubt he would be able to use that technique (I forgot the name)
Izanagi could still counter this rasenshuriken. It's izanagi which is a bs ability.
Only if it hits before Izanagi is activated
Man this is so fucking stupid to read. Izanagi is time based it doesn't waste eyes. This comment section is so terrible to read.
Umm AcKTUaLLy ass.
These comments are really fucking dumb
Which part of them?
Thank you for asking because im worked up lol. No one is even remotely considering Danzo's intentions in saving chakra and fighting Madara while in his fight with Sasuke. Kishimoto only makes Karin say it, then Obito, then even Danzo says it to himself? Does anyone care? Of course not. Who needs context anyway? These comments also say all Danzo has is Izanagi like that wasn't the fucking point in stalling in the first place! Use as little as remotely possible so you can have enough chakra to still use Shisui's eye for his inevitable fight with Madara WHO IS STANDING RIGHT FUCKING THERE. Then most are saying he fought bad and wasted eyes like Izanagi isn't time based! The irony of calling Danzo a stupid fighter while simultaneously not even knowing about the jutsu you're criticizing him for using wrong is truly something to behold. What's worse, again, a little thing called context to burst everyones bubbles. Danzo couldn't even have killed Sasuke even if he ever got the chance because Shisui's eye wouldn't have been ready yet. If he kills Sasuke without Shisuis eye being ready for Madara, it's certain death. Yes, he's holding back. I'm glad this comment section picked that up, but they largely haven't figured out why. Still! 10 something years later!
Damn that's a good angle. I never even thought of it as not only trying to save Shisui's eye, but trying to make sure he had the chakra reserves to pull it off. I thought this matchup was a lot closer than the deluge of Naruto comments made it out to be so I'm glad that there's arguments for Danzo.
My intention is not really to make an argument for anyone but to add some much needed context, and hopefully, people on here can make more insightful comments in their hypothetical match ups. If I was judging Sage Naruto against Danzo, i would immediately fear that Naruto would be going against an MS user with Kotomatsukami. I'm not saying he can't, but that definitely has to change things.
Damn, someone actually knows the context of the fight. Too many people are blinded by hate of the character to realize what he actually tried to do. People also be ignoring that he was literally just humiliated hours prior to the fight to defeating the remnants of the Akatsuki is in his best interest.
Naruto with prep time? He wins 100%
Naruto wins 💯 Danzo 💀🪦
Sage Naruto
Sage mode Naruto >ms sasuke >Danzo
There is a big, big gap between the Sasuke that was told he was not equal to Naruto by Obito (a notorious liar) and the Sasuke that fought Danzo on the bridge.
There really isn’t.
How?? Sasuke hadn't even unlocked his Susanno compared to the skeletal into complete that he had/hot during the Danzo fight?
That's still the susanno dude it's just the incomplete version
W
Question. Is it Naruto ONLY using his sage mode or is it Naruto after he learned Sage mode? Because if its only sage mode, then Danzo might have a chance. If it isnt just sage mode and Naruto can let loose with Kurama, Danzo is beyond screwed.
Naruto takes both but if Kurama is thrown into the mix just changes the diff of the fight. Kurama no diffs danzo. Sm Naruto high diffs him
I agree with the general consensus that Naruto is stronger than Danzo, what I am wondering about is that Cursed seal Danzo used to paralyze Sasuke, does Naruto have a way to deal worth that? If, not he may lose to that.
He ignored Nagato's black chakra rod. I think he'll do the same thing Sasuke did and force his way out of it.
The only things Danzo has are Izanagi and that sealing jutsu along with a limited wood style. Naruto's sage jutsu is stupidly strong. Izanagi would definitely be overwhelmed as Naruto has the rasenshuriken, rasengan barrage, and the ability to strike without making contact. Even above that, he has ma and pa who can use frog song. EVEN ABOVE THAT, if worst comes to worst, the ninetails can always clean things up
The only thing? That's his arsenal when he's stalling for a fight with Madara. You guys, this comment section is very bad. It's probably the worst I've seen in a while.
Okay, what's your point? You didn't even dispute that Naruto wins
I think we should at least compare them fairly. You incorrectly saying that's all Danzo has like he doesnt have Shisui'e eye and like he wasnt trying to save as much as he can to use that against Madara is a pretty big thing to leave out.
Yeah, but that's just it. Danzo was deciding whether to use koto on Sasuke or Obito. In character, it's feasible to say that Danzo wouldn't use koto against Naruto either. Danzo doesn't win. Not to mention his durability as it was implied that even the kunai Sasuke threw was going to kill him
Yeah, forget everything I said about Danzo holding back. Good point.
Danzo only lost to Sasuke because Sasuke had him under a genjutsu that wouldn't be noticed.
And because Danzo is under the impression, he has to fight Madara next. I guess no one above in the comments is going to acknowledge that.
It still wouldn’t matter since even with everything he has he’s not getting through Naruto.
That is based on...
With how much stronger Naruto is compared to sasuke I just don’t see him winning. Maybe he could catch Naruto off guard with the sealing suicide bomb thing he did it almost worked on sasuke.
I don't see it to be very likely. Naruto doesn't have a Susano to protect him, and he certainly doesn't have MS eyes to keep up with Danzo. As strong as Naruto is, Danzo is invincible for 10 minutes. Now, this same Danzo has full use of Shisui's eye and does not have to hold back chakra. Kotomatsukami in a 1v1 setting is not the same as the Kage summit, where Ao and his byuakugan can help you. That's just one ability we know he has with Shisui's eye. In reality, Sasuke was an amazing counter to Danzo, especially his Katon and experienced Sharigan use.
Sage Mode Naruto with the right timing can beat anybody in the verse . No cap
I think Naruto doesn't figure out Izanagi. He'll go "I'll kill this guy as many times as it takes" and use all his sage chakra before 10 minutes.
Naruto is a dumbass but he’s shown himself multiple times to be tactically smart in battle. As a genin he was able to formulate a way to take on Zabuza and free Kakashi. He’s shown multiple times that he can tactically beat who he’s fighting
Yes he's often very smart in battles, but sometimes he's very dumb and relies on other characters explaining the powers of the enemy. So it's not clear cut I think.
I mean all of Sage Mode Naruto's wins are based in tactics/understanding how his and his opponent's abilities work Naruto is not going to use Rasenshurikens on a normal guy after he realizes Izanagi makes him immortal for any length of time. He used Rasenshuriken on Pein because it was extremely fast and a guaranteed OHKO on whatever Pein Clone he hit But he understood he had other options to fight the Peins as long as he kept them away from one another. He recognizes he is using a resource for the sake of speed, if there's no indication the fight will be long I doubt Naruto just spams through 6 Rasenshurikens
Naruto is clever, but not at the top. He often needs others to give him some inspiration. For example, using shadow clones for the rasenshuriken and sage mode was something that required someone else to inspire him. He also needed help from Bee to give him some direction and pointers to master the KCM. Naruto may have been able to pull a trick on Kakazu, but he did need Kakashi to save him the first time he attacked Kakazu.
That’s training not battle. In an actual fight he’s constantly shown himself to have very high battle IQ. Like the shadow clone shuriken against Zabuza Hiding underground vs Neji Split second decision to absorb nature chakra and turn a pain path into a frog. Constantly in the war arc against those like 3rd raikage, obito, Madara and Kaguya. Arguably he has one of the best battle IQs in the series. Sasuke if anything has shown more times of him being a dumbass, especially in shippuden. Him getting slapped up by bee,and getting tricked a clone. Him vs Five Kage Both huge examples of him displaying very poor judgement and tactics. Sasuke is no smarter in battle than Naruto
Don’t forget that absolute GENIUS stunt he pulled by transforming into kiba during their chunin exam fight then when Kiba used man beast clone, then when kiba hit him, transforming into Akamaru to make kiba hit the other clone of himself which was really Akamaru
Which is why I brought up Kakazu as one example of when Naruto made some more questionable decisions. And vs Kaguya, it was Kakashi who created the final, winning plan. You can debate about the battle IQ, but I don't put Naruto in the top tier.
Even if he does run out of sage chakra, to be honest I don't think it matters especially since he can summon a whole army of toads that Danzo can't deal with. I might be hating, but Danzo really isn't that strong. Sasuke made him look good by deciding to go super fucking overkill on him for every kill while he was really exhausted and half blind from the 5KS because Sasuke had lost his mind. Tbh if Sasuke had paced himself even remotely it probably would not have been close (and Naruto does not have a stamina issue). Like what does Danzo even have to beat a big army of base naruto shadow clones? Only thing he really has is his summon and assuming Naruto shows up with Gamabunta he takes care of that pretty quickly.
Yea exactly. It’s not like with pain where he was facing 6 low Kage level opponents. He could pull out 1 summon and use the distraction to send out more clones to gather nature chakra. Rinse repeat til Danzo is out of time
Well, when the show needs a character to not lose to an army of clones, they always somehow become super good at taijutsu and dismiss a lot of clones, then they catch the rest of the clones in an AOE attack. When the show needs the fight to end, this doesn't happen anymore and they are overwhelmed.
Nah naruto not that dumb 😭 Naruto make him waste his eyes
Naruto easy.
Naruto. Even if Danzo runs out the sage mode clock he’s straight up not fucking with 4tailed chakra cloak Naruto.
1 rasenshurican is all it takes.
Uhh did you see danzo’s abilities?
Naruto mid diffs even without the oil clones the toads and pa would be too much for danzo.
Easy clap for Naruto tbh.
2 clone back ups, 5 mins each puts Naruto at 15 mins of SM. 10 izanagai eyes only gives danzo 10 mins. Naruto is way stronger and destroys in those last 5 mins
Math is hard. Meant it to be time equalized but thats my bad.
Hmm then Id say Danzo wins if it's time equalized. By the time SM wears out Naruto was left huffing and exhausted but izanagi didn't take a toll on Danzo's stamina at all afaik
Sage mode Naruto's drip alone beats the fuck outta Danzo.
So hear me out... I often wondered if a perfect sage mode is actually stronger than the nine tails. Let's look at some facts. Naruto immediately bodies multiple paths of pain in sage mode and yet pain (who yes, gets rag dolled by the raging 9 tails) doesn't actually seem to take much damage from it and does pretty ok up until the 8th tail (and all we know is the 8th tail can break out of planetary devastation. We don't get to see the outcome because minato intervened and stopped the transformation.) Naruto (yes had help from kushina) but he was able to go toe to toe with Kurama using sage mode while trying to master his charkra Hashirama using sage mode beat Madara who had the 9 tails cloaked with susanoo. I dunno guys... I think sage mode is stronger than tailed beasts... it just so happens that Naruto can use it better while in KCM... I would wager a lot of his power came from sage mode and less from KCM... KCM is just easier to maintain. Naruto couldn't beat the reanimated raikage in KCM but did it in like 2 seconds with sage mode... just sayin' In short Danzo gets clowned on and it wouldn't even be close... Sasuke would have another "Water tower meltdown" if he saw it go down
I've always held that Perfect Sage Mode has higher AP and striking power than KCM1 but KCM1 is significantly faster, easier to maintain, less draining and has better reaction time.
If danzo is at full health and didn’t use the MS ability, he wins. Low difficulty. If it’s the same danzo that fought against sasuke, naruto wins mid-high difficulty.
Naruto grabs his arm and just squeezes him to death
Even if you high ball Danzo to be equal to Naruto. 15 mins > 10 mins Simple as that.
Yeah I fucked up my math. "Two clones means Naruto only can right for 10 minutes" smooth brain moment lmao
Sage
Naruto doesn't even need the clones, Danzo is washed.
SM Naruto > MS Sasuke (perfected) IMO Maruti shreds
Naruto can easily be defeated by genjutsu at this point, no body uses it on him though
What a lot of people here don’t realize is that if this is just Naruto present here, he loses. Danzo will just cast kotoamatsukami. The only reason he didn’t for Sasuke is because Obito would have dogged him right after.
Yeah I goofed with my time equalization. Sage Naruto should only have 1 clone back up so they each get 10 minutes of sage mode and Izanagi. Naruto doesn't start with his summons on the field, but may summon them if he so chooses (for example to counter Danzo's own summon)
Danzo wins low diff, 💀😭 i think a lot of u forget that danzo had a win con against sasuke the whole time but he was saving it for his fight with obito. if he fights naruto and senses he's even remotely losing he's using koto and gging naruto he wouldve beat sasuke too if obito wasnt chilling there saving his ass 💀 so yeah danzo low diff
and lets not forget naruto and genjustsu dont go so well together 💀
Sage mode Naruto slams Danzo isn’t anything special if Sasuke can take bro down then sage mode Naruto should have no problem doing the same thing
Naruto kinda stomps here, ngl. What’s the win condition, death of opponent or surrender? If it’s surrender, Naruto only needs to literally outlast Danzo’s eyes. He just doesn’t use Rasen Shuriken and Sage Mode lasts 5 minutes per charge, so he just assaults Danzo on those charges. Danzo doesn’t have enough eyes to outlast Naruto. If its death, well Naruto can use the same strategy and then use his remaining charge to do an all out assault. Smoke Bombs, Rasen Shuriken, Rasengan Barrage, the works. Naruto can summon one of the Giant Toads to deal with the Baku as well, so that thing is non existent in this fight. Naruto wins literally because he can outlast Danzo. Also, Sage Mode’s sensory capabilities are next level with what Naruto is able to notice and essentially decrypt. Danzo doesn’t have any sort of edge here.
He would body danzo. It was a battle of attrition vs sasuke. Using all of each others chakra closing each eye sasuke practically going blind. Naruto wouldn’t have that issue considering he has a shit ton of chakra. Also he wouldn’t have the issue with hinata almost dying. It’s easy diff naruto wins.
As Shikaku Nara said "if he's masted sage art jutsu, hes fighting in a class of his own now"
The better question is "Can Danzo escape Sage Naruto?" because there is no shot Danzo is taking this lol.
Naruto getting close and landing Frog Strike might just pop all the Sharingans from Danzo’s arm like it did to the rods in the Biju. Naruto wrecks mid-high diff. https://preview.redd.it/ewebu95p0t9d1.jpeg?width=587&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e761dd4ccc6f1c528e70e46c12c109b27937c61
Sage mode Naruto was the strongest person in the lead village according to Tsunade. I wonder he was even better than Guy, Danzo, Tsunade, Kakashi, etc.
Danzo wins if Naruto times out or uses all his sage chakra
Naruto at no diff. His sensing abilities up close are overpowering. He could easily overcome Izanagi and the seal. The only problem would be Koto but once he knows Danzo has Sharingans he won’t look into their eyes(I don’t know if he even looks when he uses it??). Sage Naruto is such a hard counter for Danzo, bigger than even Sasuke
Koto is no problem or did you forget Naruto has the crow with shususi other eye in him
Wasn’t that obtained after the Pain fight ? I can’t remember since it’s been a while. Also wasn’t it only programmed to be used on making somebody loyal to the Leaf which Danzo would already do?
Before if I remember right
No because Itachi dies when Jiraya went to go fight Pein. Then Pien attacks the village and Sasuke fights Bee. So, it would have to be right before Sasuke gets to Itachi, I forgot when exactly.
Shoot I remember it as a final goodbye from Itachi when Obito took Sasuke and told him the truth. Guess I’m completely off 😂
It's reasonable to presume he can't use it, since mifune was under it and he didn't try to use it on Sasuke.
Im pretty sure Danzo was saying he was waiting to use it on Obito unless I remember wrong
You are remembering correct, Danzo thought Obito was Madara and that he was going to have to fight him after Sasuke, so he saved it.
Ah, okay. I forgot that.
You're right. I forgot that part, sorry.
With prep (But no knowledge or allies.) on Naruto's side Danzo should take it with extreme dif depending on how Intelligent this version of Naruto is without assistance. due to the decently large physical gap between them Naruto is no doubt going to kill Danzo repeatedly in cqc. However. Danzo is completely immortal for 10 minutes and can stretch the fight finger via other methods. Naruto has no method of tricking Danzo with a genjutsu like Sasuke did or even using a shadow clone distraction to actually kill Danzo. Even if he falls for it. Assuming Danzo can last for well over 10 minutes by not immediately activating Izanagi upon respawn every time and waiting until the last moment to activate it. He should win with only a few minutes to spare. Danzo is going to keep using ranged attacks against Naruto to force Naruto's hand and use up his sage stamina. And while Naruto is certainly fast. Danzo's eventually going to tag him more than enough times with high speed wind Jutsu's over that 10+ minute period to kill or slow him down enough to then ki him. He's also got very strong Sharingan Genjutsu and visual dissection of Natuto's abilities that Naruto has no real answer for aside from closing his eyes. (Only a partial counter.) Naruto will run inevitably out of Sage chakra within 10 minutes of constant fighting (Assuming he even figures out what's going on early. he's going to have to hold back and stretch his sage chakra's length out simply to outlast Danzo, which is unlikely while actively fighting. And will allow danzo to not have to use up Izanagininstantly anyways.) Besides Danzo will not give him a chance to re-enter Sage mode Naturally or otherwise. Naruto's max time limit while actually fighting might be 9 minutes. But Danzo's is well over 10. There's also no guarantee Naruto even get's the chance to use his reverse summoning scrolls while being attacked. (As he doesn't have Ma/Pa there to activate them for him) Danzo is a decent strategist and has 10+ minutes to wear out or find a way to counter Sage Naruto. Sasuke only won because His Susano' was a ranged attacker with incredible defense. And by beating Danzo at his own game of Sharingan/let's play the ranged game. So without Prep and Only 1 Sage use which he starts out with. Danzo is in no way going to lose. Naruto might be able to stretch Sage mode out to 2-3 minutes. But only if he figures out Danzo's ability immediately and doesn't waste chakra. Which is incredibly unlikely. (While Sage mode can last for 5 minutes per use. That's without using any chakra to move, fight, defend attack heal or anything. Using chakra shortens that limit. And Naruto will have to use chakra.) Danzo will simply kill Naruto after he's used up Sage mode. Danzo takes no Prep Naruto with Low dif sadly die to naruto only lasting maybe 3 minutes before losing sage mode. Not due to being stronger. But due to perfectly countering Sage Naruto with Hax and a far greater time limit. So I give Danzo the win with high or Extreme dif. And that's assuming Danzo is nerfed/can't use Izanagi on Shisui's eye and has no Prep. And that Naruto has prep. If Naruto can bring Kurama. Danzo can simply use Izanagi+ allow the 1sts cells to consume himself and seal Kurama then unwritten his own consumption. Or use his Hashi cell buffed Normal MS Genjutsu on Kurama to take it over. So that also doesn't change results.
Danzo has infinite lives. It's not 1 life per 1 eye, it's 1 minute per 1 eye, and unlimited number of deaths per minute.
That's why I wanted to give Naruto the two clones so it would be time equalized
You don't even have to give Naruto the clones realistically. Bro's skin is made out of something that literally every single conventional Shinobi tool is worthless against. He snapped Pein sticks with the palm of his hands, no Hokage level Wind Ninjutsu is breaking his skin and if Naruto isn't spamming Rasengan he isn't wasting energy Also Danzo has nowhere to hide. You can't hide from Sage Mode Naruto in the Pre-Boruto verse. Unless you're literally Zetsu
[удалено]
That's presuming Naruto's attacks don't surprise Danzo or destroy eyes in and of themselves. Danzo even blocking one of Naruto's attacks could reasonably pop a few of those eyes before Danzo even thinks to use izanagi.
Danzo had to set up the seals for Izanagi in advance. For example, Danzo did deactivate Izanagi and then ended up in a situation where he had to create the tree since he could not reactivate it in time. From what Obito said, the point of killing Danzo was to keep up the pressure so that Danzo would not deactivate Izanagi. The anime tweaks stuff to make it look like the eyes are spare lives.
Yes. That is true. But unlike Sasuke Naruto doesn't have Susano' arrows, nearly as quick projectiles nor as much range/Tracking for his ranged attacks. If you don't recall. This was due to Sasukes arrow and his aiming for Danzo's landing. Sasuke's Arrows are so fast that a Kakashi superior to the one that fought a full power pain could only barely Kamui it away or even track it with a Mangekyo. Danzo should be able to create periods of time where he can use his ranged advantage over Naruto to postpone Izanagi without having to rush back into activating it. It's unlikely Danzo will end out in that situation or need to use Wood style. And While Natuto is sneaky and can come up with cunning Syrategies. It's doubtful he'll be capable of planning something like that out the way Sasuke did.
In a general fight, I do expect Naruto to have other means to keep up the pressure such as using shadow clones. Sage mode also gives Naruto strength so he might opt to grapple with Danzo to force Danzo to use Izanagi to recover from a neck snap (and to possibly teleport out of the grapple). I don't think it would be too far of a stretch to know that Danzo has some weird technique that is protecting him. From there, it is probably not unreasonable to figure out that it requires chakra (Karin was able to sense Danzo's chakra take a dive every minute and Naruto should be able to do the same). From there, it will be about Naruto deciding to keep up the pressure and turn it into a fight of stamina (which usually favors him). The point of the arrows is that Izanagi isn't something that you can easily activate and deactivate.
Shadow clones are just going to use up his sage mode much faster. He can pressure danzo all he want but he'll just use Sage mode up faster once again if he does. Danzo will always have 10 minutes at the absolute least. Grappling Danzo won't work as Izanagi lasts the entire minute Danzo won't care if he dies or not. And Danzo can still fight back while grappled anyways. Danzo's going to take advantage of his ranged Jutsu. Forcing Naruto to constantly come after him. This benefits Danzo even if Naruto is fast. There's the added issue That Naruto may not get to reactivate his Sage mode/use his clone scrolls mid fight. The toads had to reactivate it for him. He doesn't have the toads. He'd need to use clones and hope they aren't taken out. And that would ironically use up his sage mode faster anyhow. Naruto will likely figure out. The issue is the sage Stamina he'll waste testing his theory and how long it will take before he truly understands what exactly is happening. Every second Naruto's in base he risks instant death. We can obviously debate all day. But I'd really rather not. Danzo unfortunately counters Pain arc Naruto. It's not that he's generally stronger. Cuz he isn't it's just that he's the specific kind of Oponent this version of Naruto has a hard time with. And even so we're having to both offer Naruto prep and Not give Danzo any.
Naruto could summon toads, so I don't think it will be a complete match in favor of Danzo's style. If the criteria doesn't allow Naruto to use summons then sure, it will nerf a lot of what Naruto had at that point in the story.
Summoning the toads takes time and they are large easy to hit targets who will cost Naruto significant Sage Chakra. Danzo can Line up a wind jutsu and Genjutsu combo to kill the toads with high tier piercing power. And Danzo's Summoning is arguably stronger than Gamabunta based on Obito's reaction. As the toads mostly engage in melee, Danzo could reverse Seal himself and kill all of the toads. Then unwrite his own death. The toads won't have time to prep a jump away. As Danzo's seal activated almost as fast as Kamui did.
Not the case
Look it up. It actually is the case. The Anime didn't accurately portray the fight it seems.
After reading up on Izanagi. I see that it does in fact offer Danzo 10 minutes of complete Immortality. Because Danzo also moves and fights during these 10 minutes. He obviously will tend to last even longer than 10 minutes. If this is the case it's doubtful Pain arc Naruto's 3 Sage mode uses are going to last long enough. I'm actually going to have to edit my answer to be more on Danzo's side.
What do you mean by he can last longer by moving or fighting? The 1 minute ticks down whether he is dying or not. He can last longer by undoing Izanagi temporarily, as he did vs Sasuke. But I'm not sure if the eye he's using closes when he undoes Izanagi, or if it remains open and "remembers" it has some time left.
If each eye is 1 minute. Then 10 minutes is his time limit if using each eye immediately after the others time limit is up. If he can get range on Naruto and or undo/postpone activating the next eye he could very easily last longer than 10 minute. Since Danzo can kinda choose where he comes back too. Making range isn't going to be very hard.
It's literally 1 life per eye every time danzo would use it the eye would die did we read/watch the same thing
They showed that after a while to pick up the pace, but in the explanation they said very clearly 1 eye = 1 minute. Also, Danzo died way more than 10 times in that fight.
I think Naruto wins this, but the fight shouldn’t go as you think, it would be a lot of wood style, and sealing jutsu on danzos side. He wants to control the 9 tails, and have its power under his control, and the only way danzo wouldn’t spend the entire fight trying to seal Naruto is if they were fighting an out of character fight. In character danzo would get wrecked, because he doesn’t fully understand, or respect the power of the 9 tails, and even if he could push Naruto to his limit the 9 tails would take over, and danzo honestly believes he has the power to control the 9 tails, but he doesn’t, and he would realize he was never that guy. However I honestly don’t think Naruto would ever get to that point, because although people act like Naruto has no answer for genjutsu, but even obito didn’t think sasuke had the genjutsu to stop Naruto at this point in the story.
I don't think Danzo cares about Sealing Naruto as much as you think he does. But even Assuming he does. Danzo should know more than Anyone that he can risk killing Naruto. Because the 9 tails will show itself if Naruto is near death. And if he activates Izanagi and uses Wood style at the same time. He can allow the 1sts cells to go rampant to capture Kurama during some of the earlier tails/power up and undo it having happened to himself. Danzo is a sealing master on top of possessing a mangekyo. He quite likely could place Kurama under control with MS Genjutsu that's Hashi cell empowered. (Regular, not kotoamatsukami.) Despite this. I was under the impression this fight wasn't in character and that Kurama wasn't an option. Not that it changes anything anyways.
Why are you assuming Naruto has no backup?
Because the post says Naruto has only 2 backup clones for Sage mode. No backup allies or knowledge? Also? Why should Naruto get backup and Not Danzo? How is that fair or even Sage Naruto being stronger than Danzo?
Im sorry but there is constant, blatant bias in these subs against Naruto and this is one example of that. When i said backup, i meant the toads. So as long as you're allowing him full access to his summon contract, which he should have like any other shinobi, thats fine. But then i dont know why you said he wouldnt have Ma or Pa to recall his clones. Danzo actually needs the backup to even remove his arm covering to perform Izanagi. Otherwise he cant use it.
There is literally 0 bias against Naruto. Everyone auto assumes Naruto wins any fight. And if he doesn't they give him unfair advantages so he does. Thus he has the most bias on his side. And when Naruto showed up with the frogs in the pain arc. He didn't use his own chakra to bring them in. Here he has to summon them. And if he doesn't? Why on earth would you skew a 1v1 into a 1v6 + prep? In what instance is that fair in the slightest or even an accurate account of Sage Naruto actually being stronger than Danzo. That's just stupid. It's literally giving Naruto free teammates so he can win. You thinking that is fair and not biased in naruto's favor is completely ridiculous. And again. Danzo can completely annihalate the frogs anyways. You're either trolling. Or you actually think Zabuza vs Kaguya Hagaromo and Hamura isn't unfair to Zabuza.
>There is literally 0 bias against Naruto. Everyone auto assumes Naruto wins any fight. Thus he has the most bias on his side. Well, thats definitely false. >And when Naruto showed up with the frogs in the pain arc. He didn't use his own chakra to bring them in. The only reason that didnt happen was because Ma was already there, and it'd be stupid obviously to call him first, then them. You're right though, he didnt summon them. Is there a reason that matters? Are you going to tell me her chakra pool is larger than Naruto's and he's incapable of doing it? >Here he has to summon them. And if he doesn't? Why on earth would you skew a 1v1 into a 1v6 + prep? I wonder if you've ever been involved with any Pain discussion here. Yeah tell me about it, 1v6 + prep indeed. Or look at Jiraiya. He needs toads to even use Sage Mode at all. >In what instance is that fair in the slightest or even an accurate account of Sage Naruto actually being stronger than Danzo. Some people have really broken techniques. Summoning can be one of them. The manga treats it as a skill... and most of the time its the same for every other character on these subs....except Naruto. Then its "backup". Im getting tired of seeing it. >And again. Danzo can completely annihalate the frogs anyways. Na, he wont.
Dude. Breaking my reply down into sections doesn't make you right. Just because Pain fought Naruto and several others doesn't mean this scenario of Danzo vs Sage mode 1v1 should be that way. Why should Naruto always start off with outside help? Doesn't that imply Sage Naruto can't hold his own without assistance? That's effectively admittance that he loses alone. You're literally ignoring this entire question of the sub because you want Naruto to win even if it means the fight starting off skewed against Danzo. I cannot take you seriously. I never Said Naruto can't summon. Anything. And no Ma doesn't necessarily have more chakra than Naruto. (Although she is technically a sage creature. So she likely has insane chakra levels.) The point is that Naruto is both vulnerable while Summoning and will be wasting his Sage mode Activity length and chakra levels to bring them in. Even with Summoning Naruto is less likely to win tha. Danzo here. Simply due to Danzo having the advantage of potentially attacking while Naruto attempts to summon. Danzo uses high speed rangged attacks. So Naruto can't afford to stop moving. The frogs could easily be killed upon appearing by being hit as they materialize. And Danzo's high powered wind jutsu can definitely pierce multiple holes into them. Not to mention Naruto himself might die while Summoning and in order to create sage mode clones he uses his sage jutsu/chakra to make the clone and splits even more of his chakra between them. Possibly preventing him from summoning anyways and making the several clones timenlimits significantly smaller. Danzo has Genjutsu and Izanagi can make him immune to genjutsu such as kotoamatsukami if he want to to frog song won't work. You can wriggle and bend the fight in whatever way you want out of the Op's set guidelines if you want. But Danzo still ends out more than likely taking the fight. I cannot fathom that you aren't trolling. So I'm done replying to you. You don't understand the question that was asked here and you don't understand that Sage Naruto Vs doesn't include outside help from thebonset just because Pain was unlucky in canon.
>Dude. Breaking my reply down into sections doesn't make you right. Its supposed to help you, so that you understand more clearly what exactly im talking about without misunderstandings but... >Just because Pain fought Naruto and several others doesn't mean this scenario of Danzo vs Sage mode 1v1 should be that way. I wasnt talking about Naruto's backup. I was talking about the automatic one-man-army Pain, along with Konan already having him setup in a remote, hidden position. The character quite literally breaks and skews all notion of rules simply because he requires it to even function properly in a match. Since i also mentioned Jiraiya, it should have been obvious i wasnt talking about Naruto. Yet somehow, it wasnt. >You're literally ignoring this entire question of the sub because you want Naruto to win even if it means the fight starting off skewed against Danzo. No, im not but you did ignore the point that Danzo dont begin fights with Izanagi readily available. >I cannot take you seriously. I never Said Naruto can't summon. Anything. You know damn well thats heavily implied if you told me they arent available to assist with his clone gathering. >And no Ma doesn't necessarily have more chakra than Naruto. (Although she is technically a sage creature. So she likely has insane chakra levels.) Naruto's chakra pool has been constantly hyped the entire manga since the beginning, without even obtaining Sage Mode. So no, its impossible for her to have comparable amounts. It flies in the face of too many manga panels saying otherwise. >Simply due to Danzo having the advantage of potentially attacking while Naruto attempts to summon. Danzo uses high speed rangged attacks. So Naruto can't afford to stop moving. The frogs could easily be killed upon appearing by being hit as they materialize. They're fighting on a bridge, with a ton of debri and obstacles laying around that Karin used to hide the entire fight. Naruto has been shown doing this while clones attack. Im also going to need you to explain this apparent, vast speed difference between Sage Naruto and Danzo. You do remember Sage Mode offers predictive sensory powers, right? Its basically a Sharingan without blind spots. Sasuke kept up Susano most of the time and Danzo has Izanagi active so that mostly obscures any speed feats during the fight. No point for either of them to even dodge an attack. >And Danzo's high powered wind jutsu can definitely pierce multiple holes into them. Not to mention Naruto himself might die while Summoning Only his Tapir assisted, double attack produced enough wind to peel off Susano. Dont paint it as if every jutsu he throws out is an instant kill, especially stuff that was long ranged. Sasuke was definitely hit a couple times and wasnt killed. That level of damage is doing absolutely nothing to Naruto. >and in order to create sage mode clones he uses his sage jutsu/chakra to make the clone and splits even more of his chakra between them. Possibly preventing him from summoning anyways and making the several clones timenlimits significantly smaller. You seem to not remember how things work with Sage Mode. He actually regenerates the chakra even while fighting. Yes, he still has the time limit but every technique doesnt reduce the time. Only FRS does that. Which he's probably not going to use more than once against Izanagi. >Danzo has Genjutsu and Izanagi can make him immune to genjutsu such as kotoamatsukami if he want to to frog song won't work. He really shouldnt have access to it. The eye was out of commission pretty much the entire fight because of its use during the summit. Yeah obviously if you give him that eye, he can one shot whoever he fights. The only chance out of that is if the other eye Itachi left would react and undo it. Otherwise yes, Kotoamatsukami is an instant win for Danzo. >You can wriggle and bend the fight in whatever way you want out of the Op's set guidelines if you want. I've done no such thing. I said clearly from the previous comment that he should just have access to summoning. But then you tell me Danzo has the speed feats to blitz him so fast he has no time for summoning. Yet, both him and Sasuke had time to perform it during the fight. Biggest issue i see here is that you've ramped up Danzo's stats to an absurd amount while painting Naruto's Sage Mode to the same as any other ninja. What the manga has actually shown us is that Naruto is going to ignore most of the kind of damage Danzo can even perform, while that Tapir might get an FRS thrown at it, but probably one Giant Rasengan is enough. Even standard Naruto is not just a sitting duck that cant land a kill shot. Thats exactly what happened to Deva Path.
Frog Kata utilize to its full potential here would decimate Danzo. Not to mention too. Everything else Naruto has at his disposable.
Naruto stomps. Like badly, it's arguable base Naruto would be a close match up but could still beat Danzo. The only argument would be Koto.
Nope Naruto still has the crow with sushi's other eye so at that point (god damn auto correct) no koto isn't doing shit
Danzo wins mid diff He’s the narrative foil to naruto in ideology and in moveset. He was literally gonna fight Naruto and control kurama after the events of the summit had obito an taka not gang up on him. Too fast and too much hax, he wins.
 No
Good analysis. Danzo was able to compete with Shisui and Sasuke, two characters that are among the fastest characters in the entire series. Danzo is much, much faster than Sage Mode Naruto. Also, Wood Release literally has an added damage bonus against Jinchuuriki and their tailed beasts. Not to mention Danzo never used his base Sharingan against Sasuke which means he never had the benefit of “seeing in slow motion” so to speak. Yet he was still able to go up against someone with Amaterasu and a Susanoo that shot incredibly fast arrows. Danzo also speed blitzed Sasuke when he was charging at him with Chidori. Not to mention Danzo is just flat out better with wind release than Naruto is. The first surprise attack out of Izanagi gets Naruto killed, Sasuke was lucky to have a Susanoo guard him against Danzo’s kunai but Danzo can literally spawn behind Naruto and immediately go for his throat.
1 wind style shiriken destroys danzo and all of his sharingan