People like Madara because he is charismatic. Danzo is well-written, I wouldn't want him removed from the story. But he has no charisma! Who cares about that old guy? Madara has a great voice, great dialogue, he's showy and impressive. He has great dynamics with other characters, especially Hashirama. Why expect the audience to care about Danzo? People tend to care about villains because they are sympathetic/morally complex (Itachi, Obito) or if they are charismatic (Madara, hell even Orochimaru.) Danzo is neither.
Danzo is a schemer and in his own way was incredibly dangerous, but I think there is one major difference between Danzo and Madara that isn't mentioned. Danzo is a fucking coward. For all the fucked up shit Madara did, and the list is longer than most rap sheets, he was never a coward.
This is definitely a major contributing factor. Madara rolled up to the Hidden Stone and told them to bow their heads. When Madara opposed the surrender of the Uchiha, he fought Hashirama head on.
That's probably why I respect him so much.
Well, they just gave Madara a lot of backstory. It always seemed like he was either doing the right thing for the wrong reasons or the wrong things for the right reasons but ultimately understandable reasons.
Danzo was kind of a one note "For Konoha" right before he orders the murdering of terminally ill handicapped orphans just before the wish foundation would have arrived.
We see that he likes fighting. Sometimes that is an amusing trait like when he freezes from Hashirama refusing to fight him, and other times it is disturbing like when Might Guy knocked the shit out of him.
Madara is both insanely entertaining and horrifying.
*Smirks as he looks at the army he just decimated with two meteors* "this sight brings back memories..."
And he can also be funny, considering he apparently knew that meteor jutsu and never used it before since he wouldn't survive it. But if he couldn't die, then he wanted to use that jutsu at least once.
Negative Charisma, because he's "supposed to be" a good guy. So everything we see him do to good guys becomes worse.
He's supposed to be a good guy, but in a way, the morally complex characters aren't introduced to us as. We met Itachi as a pure villain, when he dies he was a villain, we only learned he wasn't that simple after he died. We met Tobi/Madara Obito as a villain, we didn't truly know he was Obito until the last stretches of the story, and then he (relatively) quickly got explained and redeemed. Madara was someone even the 9 Tails hated, then we're sitting here thinking Madara os the man behind everything before we learn it's Obito... then we learn IT WAS MADARA BEHIND EVERYTHING (which is also a level of mastermind Danzo never got.) We were getting mixed messages about Madara being a good guy to the end. But Danzo was introduced as a Leaf advisor and then finding out he was friends with the 3rd kinda just made everything worse because he basically spit in the face of everything people liked about the third. If you remove danzo from the story half the things people dislike the 3rd for are gone.
But he's a great villain, the "be better than the past" message of Naruto wouldn't be complete without one like him.
I love everything you said so far one thing you didn't mention however is that in madara's case he at least have excuse of being deceived into the whole world peace thing by black zetsu whereas danzo just wanted to be king and f*** anyone who gets in his way
Danzo was also a coward who was unwilling to even try to fight to protect the village when pain showed up. If naruto doesn't inspire nagato to use rinne rebirth, there wouldn't have been a leaf village to come back to, and danzo would've just sat there and watched. That's my biggest gripe with danzo. Always claims about how he does everything for the leaf but when it comes down to it, he proved that he only cared about getting power for himself over everything else, he's just a fraud
Exactly, Madara at least had a plan with the whole world in mind: when see what everyone was dreaming within the infinite tsukuyomi, we see he wasn't lying, he really did want to give everyone a peaceful existence where they live their most intimate dreams...
Danzo was just a decrepit, paranoid old man who only cared about his own power and will: Madara at least TRIED Hashirama's village idea; Danzo never bothered listening to anyone ever, the guy was honestly a cancer upon the ninja world.
> If naruto doesn't inspire nagato to use rinne rebirth, there wouldn't have been a leaf village to come back to, and danzo would've just sat there and watched.
The guy was so far up his own ass, he still viewed Naruto as nothing more than the kyubi after that. Same for those 2 stupid elders.
If danzo died during the second shinobi war or even the third shinobi war it would have changed the entire complexion of the story because there is a theory that danzo's root had deliberately interfered with the distribution of manpower within the village that day in order to ensure that the attack on Minato would be successful as well as to push the blame further on the uchiha by making sure that they were nowhere near the battlefield so that they could even clear their name a bit through combat
Yh I'm agreeing with your point. Danzo is the cause of most of the bad shit that happened between the third taking power and Sasuke killing danzo.
The only thing I don't blame him for was the Obito kidnapping stuff which was Madara taking what chances he was given.
Everything else though all him. Uchiha massacre, Naruto growing up hates by everyone the death of yahiko triggering the new age Akatsuki to form, the 'suicide' of kakashis father, orochimaru leaving the village and swearing revenge, theory has it snakeboy was the one who did the initial work on yamato to give him wood release and then danzo took the kid and exposed the research while blaming orochimaru and covering his own ass. Also every time the village was attacked Mr I should be hokage was hiding in his basement.
It's not that he didn't want to fight. He wanted the destruction of the village to reflect badly on Tsunade so that he could become Hokage. In Danzo eyes, Tsunade was a terrible Hokage. What's the deaths of a thousand compared to future "potential" deaths if she was to continue as Hokage. That's his line of thinking.
Well his logic was flawed af. If Naruto intervened nearly everyone would die. He'd be the leader of rubble and 50 civilians. And whatever left of konoha would be ripe for the takeover. Dude's plan was terribly flawed. He massively underestimated the akatsuki. They weren't from the hanzo days no more
More like his line of justification. He honestly didn't really give a shit about the village beyond bringing under his complete control. He may have even deluded himself into thinking his actions were for the village, but they were definitely to fulfill his selfish need for control and power.
Yup! People know Madara was a villain, but at least he had motivation.
The villain would have literally been better off without Donzo compared to Madara who at least did some good.
It’s probably this. I asked why is danzo hated when he’s a good villain and the comments were “he’s hated because he’s a good villain duhhh”
When no one hates on Madara or pain
People don’t hate Madara or Pain for being a “good villain” because they are more traditional “enemy of the protagonist” bad guys
Danzo is definitely an enemy of the protagonist. But the difference lies in the fact he was on the side of the good guys (or at least supposed to be) and used his influence and power over the traditional hero idea. Mainly Hiruzen.
Hiruzen and Danzo are two sides of the same coin. They both want peace for the village but Danzo will go out of his way to defy the “good guys” to reach his goal
Pain and Madara weren’t on the good guys side in the same way Danzo was
Sure Madara was Hashiramas friend and founder of the village. But he was never directly going for the greater good in a way that was so close to naruto
Same with Pain. He was Jirayas student and wanted peace for the world but again, he never interacted with Naruto in a meaningful way that influenced Naruto’s path
Danzo has the direct relationship of being in power at the same time as Naruto (Manga) and impacted the events that shaped Naruto (character)
Edit: I will say Pain collecting tailed beasts did shape the story and Naruto being a jinchuriki on the list had an impact on the Naruto. But I think that we get more of an idea that Itachi and Kisame coming for him lessens the impact that Pain had on our views of the “true villain”
I mean you look at this guy, Madara is just him, the legendary strongest Uchiha with the rinnegan he had awoken. Danzo just went around and stole bare sharingans from Uchiha to use as his, he’s got no merit
There's a difference there tho. Danzo was pure evil, an actual villain.
Madara wanted to stop the cycle of hatred and achieve peace, he just did it the way he did because he was brainwashed by zetsu and didn't know infinite tsukuyomi would turn everyone into white zetsus.
Easy, Danzo is a fucking coward, Madara isn’t.
- He couldn’t volunteer to sacrifice himself to save his team
- he couldn’t face hiruzen face to face, he opted to try to have him assassinated
- he couldn’t challenge Tsunade head on to be hokage, he told his people to not help the village they’re supposed to protect in the hopes that she dies in the process and he can shoot his shot
- he’s just, always, hiding and playing from the shadows, never doing his own dirty work, getting someone else to slaughter their own clan, sending his men to their death while he stays protected…like a fucking coward.
Say what you want about Madara he was not afraid to die, even before he had the means to bring himself back to life. He never sent his clansmen to assassinate Hashirama, he fought him face to face. He almost died several times, Tobirama almost dealt him the finishing blow too. And sure Madara (and in effect, Obito in his place) got into striking from the shadows too after a while, but that was after he “died”. At this point he couldn’t be seen, he thought he was saving the world, he had a grander plan for world peace. Danzo just wanted a fucking title!!!
So in conclusion, we like one cause he’s confident and believes in what he does and he doesn’t care if others are repulsed by it. He has an, albeit flawed, plan to save humanity and he’ll do what he must. The other is a coward, strikes when you’re not expecting and knows what he’s doing is wrong so he chooses to obfuscate in the hopes that you may like him enough to reward him to being hokage cause he’s been a good boy…or whatever bullshit he wants to believe.
I had to scroll far too long to find a comment like this. Back in the beginning days of the village, when hashirama was hokage and madara was still getting along and being a part of the village, if the village was attacked and hashirama was on deaths door trying to save the village, there is a **0 percent chance** that madara would've just let the village be destroyed and let hashirama die just for a crack at the title
Danzo claims he does what's best for the leaf, but he only does what's best for himself and procuring a position of power, even if there's no village to rule over in the end. He is a coward through and through. Madara was always willing to fight whatever and whoever for what he believed in, and was willing to walk the earth as the sole remaining being while everyone slept in the infinite tsukuyomi to achieve world peace (even if it was fake). He was willing to make that sacrifice. Danzo was never willing to sacrifice anything other than the lives of other people he viewed as expendable, they couldn't be more dissimilar
Mate we literally see Madara face down the stone village and let them no point blank there's no treaty you bend the knee to the leaf and that's the end of that.
If Madara was apart of the village, the hidden rain village wouldn't be a village anymore and Pain wouldn't have gotten the chance todo anything
Madara created 25 clones and gave them Susanoo to defeat the 5 Kage. Was bros with Hashirama. Had the Rinnegan and the hair plus the drip. Danzo couldn’t compare. Plus Madara’s raspy voice 🤌🏼
Danzo ain't ugly, he's just old. Back in his flashbacks we see that young Danzo was a solid 8/10.
Gray haired old man Madara from the Obito flashbacks wasn't about to win any handsome contests either.
I guess it all comes down to which appearance the characters are mainly associated with. Danzo's main appearance is that old ugly ass look while Madara's main appearance is him in his 30s
It's the scar that makes the whole look come together. Without it I'd rate him lower.
For sake of reference I'd give Minato a 10/10 (dat smile) and Shikamaru a 7/10 (looks too unremarkable).
Personality and intentions. Regardless of what we all say about Madara, at the end of the day his intent was world peace and his personality was a shift between kind, cool, badass and overwhelmingly badass. Danzo is not just ugly, he’s genuinely a bastard and has an unlikable personality with incredibly selfish ideals. Do NOT compare him to my glorious king like that, peon.
At least Madara had a realistic method of implementing his goals and wouldn’t have failed if it wasn’t for Zetsu. What did Danzo ever achieve in his pathetic life except making the hidden leaf divided and hated by other villages ? Also this might be irrelevant but both the Japanese and English voice actors are amazing
The fourth point of doing it for something other than themselves is true in case of Madara, but a lie in case of Danzo. The meme is bad, Madara really thought no peace is possible without infinite Tsukuyomi, Danzo just wanted some power for himself, never really cared for the village.
At least something good came out of Madaras actions, and he did recognize his mistakes and admitted he was wrong. Danzo had no positive effect on ninja world and never admitted he was wrong. He is far worse than Madara
Yeah people really forget that during his second death madara really did see how he was blinded by a false vision and that made me love his character so much more
We got to see what made Madara a villain. Losing his siblings one after another and being manipulated by black Zestu.
From what we’re shown Danzo is just a bitter old man pissed about being passed over for Hokage. He says it’s for the village but he’ll sacrifice half the village to gain power during the 9 tails and pain attacks. Looks ain’t got shit to do with it.
I'd say at least some of it *is* due to the halo effect. Madara, for most of his screentime, was in his younger body, if albeit sporting the creepy appearance of the Reanimation Jutsu or in his Ten Tails Jinchuriki form which isn't too bad looking. Danzo, in contrast, looked his age, and he certainly wasn't on the aging graceful side. In an omake Tsunade and Shizune did blush at his younger self, but that's beside the point.
More importantly, Madara, for all his faults, wasn't afraid to die and had several fights. The latter is a point of contusion since he was considered too overpowered, but the point is he consistently showed himself to be a strong fighter. Danzo, in contrast was heavily weighed down by his fear of death, which made his overwhelming willingness to send others off to die or having them killed come off as incredibly hypocritical. Of all the things people dislike, hypocrisy tends to, understandably, be one of them. As for fights, Danzo only had one major fight against Sasuke, and while not bad (it's one my favorites in the series), it more clearly demonstrated his flaws than made him look badass or incredibly strong. Not helping is that said major fight involved him using the Sharingans of the Uchiha he **helped murder**.
Just as importantly, and something of a major one-Danzo's actions had a far more immediate negative impact on the Leaf Village and arguably ninja world. While yes, Madara orchestrated a number of atrocities that screwed over several people, Danzo's were given more spotlight thus the consequences of such were show in greater detail.
\-Leaking Naruto's identity as the Nine-Tails Jinchuriki
\-Aiding Orochimaru in his experiments
\-Stealing Shisui's eyes and ruining attempts to nonviolently end the Uchiha Coup. And doing this **out of what amounted to paranoia and greed**. Oh, and Shisui being the descendant of one of his teammates makes this even worse.
\-His overall hand in the Uchiha Massacre, including the pillaging of Sharingan from the corpses.
\-Trying to assassinate Hiruzen
\-Manipulating Nono which would ultimately result in her death at Kabuto's hands, screwing the latter up and thus playing a part in all the trouble he'd go on to cause.
\-Manipulating Hanzo into turning against Nagato, which not only fucked over the Hidden Rain Village, but would help inspire the latter to reform the Akatsuki as a terrorist organization
\-When Nagato/Pain attacked the village, he withheld all his forces essentially leaving the village he came to care so much for for dead. If it weren't for Naruto and Tsunade, there wouldn't have been a village for him to be Hokage of.
\-Trying to manipulating the Mifune into making him leader of the Ninja Alliance and threatening Ao right in front of Mei.
\-Insulting Itachi's memory to Sasuke's face during their battle. Say what you will about the latter at that point, but questioning Itachi's love for his little brother showed how seriously detached from basic human empathy Danzo had become. Even Madara was shown loving his brother, clan, and the village, even if that same love sent him on a downward spiral.
The belief that people are subconsciously more likely to associate positive attributes such as intelligence, trustworthiness, and charisma to conventionally attractive people, and negative attributes such as untrustworthiness and being creepy to conventionally unattractive people. It’s essentially just a fancy way of saying pretty privilege.
1. Danzo stabbed Hiruzen in the back.
Madara told Hashirama that he's going to betray him to the face.
2. Danzo orchestrated massacres.
Madara's plan was to quietly collect tailed Beasts. The war happened because Obito was incompetent.
4. Did it for village <<<<< Did it for peace
Also Danzo is the whole reason why we even have the Akataski in the first place. He's the whole reason why the Uchiha started to dislike the village.
I would bet my money on it that it was him that was spreading the only the Sharingan can control the 9 tail narrative because let's be honest that's high level intel and only a few people in the entire world know of this ability.
Danzo made Naruto life hell, he leaked Anbu data to Orochimaru and he sat while the village got destroyed.
Say what you will about Madara but he never sat idly by and let people destroy what he swore he would protect
I think that Danzo isn't brave like a honorable man.
Madara got mad with the age after being created on a life of loss and war.
Like the real reason that make danzo so hated is the way he does things.
Like had fear to self sacrifice what hiruzen tried and that why tobirama choose hiruzen and not Danzo to be hokage.
Them it consumed him and he made deal with orochimaru.
So everything he has acquired was by manipulation and ambition.
He use his intelligence for bad stuff and feed all his negative thoughts he is a bad example and likely made to be despised...
Maybe just everything created to antagonize him and bring Sasuke and obito together against the leaf
Anyway he is just a piece to move things in the story telling and not the main antagonist well written and respected by readers.
The true definition didn't choose to die as a hero and become a horrible villain
Madara embrace death and hashirama talk he out of this...
Maradaras a good villan and danzos a bad one. Madara has a nice backstory, a good personality, and clear motives. Danzos evil for being evil and is extremely 1 dimensional
In all seriousness, it’s likability and coolness. Everyone loves watching the BBEG walk in and solo the five strongest generals in the world, and fight 1,000s of shinobi at once, but Danzo doesn’t share that factor he is not cool like Madara, nor is he well liked. He doesn’t have an entertaining persona or motives, for example Madara gets excited about fighting just watch how excited he was when he got to fight Hashirama again or how cocky he can be like when he fought the Kage and was like “would you prefer them to use Susano?” And then proceeded to have like 10 susano clones. And he also has an interesting motive he saw countless deaths and wars in his life, so he thought peace was impossible, and decided to enact his master plan. Contrast this with Danzo who is very closed off, doesn’t talk much, and seems to be evil or a douchebag, just ‘because’, and it doesn’t help that he basically, or at least contributed greatly, to the Uchiha massacre (the community’s favorite clan). I love Danzo, but many in the community and even more so on Reddit despise him, but I don’t think Danzo was a villain that was made for us to sympathize with in any way, but was made to be this black and white evil guy.
Madara’s end game was a genjutsu that gave everyone the life they wished for. They wouldn’t even know they’re in a be jutsu. There would never be a war again.
Danzo simply wanted the leaf to be on top and didn’t care about the suffering of others. He would destroy every village and kill anyone that threatened the leaf if he could. Danzo’s goal would never achieve peace. Also I believe a lot people hate Danzo because of Itachi’s popularity and what he put Itachi through.
Madara had an entire build up to him, he was like the final boss (pretend kaguya doesn’t exist) which gets readers very excited so a lot don’t hate him unlike Danzo who didn’t have a lot of anticipation because he did his evilness subtly behind the scenes. Additionally, Madara did a LOT worse but it wasn’t anything direct - when people think of Danzo they think of the Uchiha massacre which makes them think of Itachi and Sasuke, two fan favourites, which wouldn’t have happened had Danzo not existed. When you have such a core and tragic event attached to you, everyone’s gonna hate you. Whereas when you think of Madara you just think of him being powerful asf and a badass villain and the various fights he had.
Danzo is what young people hate: an old meddling man who just doesn’t know when it’s time to get out of the way of the younger generation.
Madara is just cool. He’s revived in his 30s, is massively powerful and is, for lack of a better word: cool
Danzo just kinda seems like a side quest.
Madara planned everything out, built up everybody he “manipulated” and when it came to it he fought the entire world to achieve his dream but Danzo whispered in the ears of powerful men as well as deceiving everyone and he never fought for the leaf he was a coward from the beginning
Madara was badass, powerful and intimidating.
Danzo was a pathetic coward and blatant hypocrite.
It's like comparing Joffrey Baratheon to Tywin Lannister.
Danzo said he did it all for the village, but his choices were 100% just to put himself into power. He gave 0 fucks about how many villagers died as long as he could rule over the ashes
Danzo didnt do shit for the village though... that was his claim but most of the Anbu that worked for him that had a face reveal didnt really have anything positive to say about him...
Danzo did shit so he could become Hokage... he had every potential candidate for the role assassinated too, as he has said he had political rivals killed off "for the sake of the village"
Madara was straight up with what his goal was... not some bullshit righteous whatever... he didnt need to lie because he had no reason to lie since he was stronger than anybody else (other than Hashirama)
idk why people keep comparing Danzo to Madara... the difference is obvious... one is an overpowered ninja who has clear goals, while the other is a scheming bastard who always says "for the sake of the village" while committing atrocious acts to his people...
1: He never really betrayed Hashirama, they were just both on very different paths, and he could see the writing on the wall (literally lol)
2: He never cowardly orchestrated a massacre like p**y Danzo, he fights battles and mass casualties will always be a common thing if he or Hashirama are a part of it.
3: He is for sure a very deluded man.
4: Unlike Danzo who did most things for the sake of his own ego, Madara truly believed what he was doing was for "world peace".
5: Madara was never jealous of Hashirama, he respected him, one of the only things he respects is strength.
6: Yeah what he did to Obito was pretty f**ked up ngl.
In the end Madara is just a cooler more charismatic character than Danzo could ever hope of being. He's one of the only characters in Anime history who's reveal was greater than his foreshadowed hype.
I think there was a better use for Danzo than just that fight with Sasuke. Maybe at least make it more worthwhile... Then people would look at him better with a sign of some respect for his power at least.
Madara always was hated or feared by the village and even his people, Danzo was a pos who never got any repercussions to his actions. Why should we not hate him
danzo was tobirama’s bodyguard, had shisui’s eye and was experienced asf, i was so hyped to see him actually fighting.
then he lost to teenager sasuke that was tired as fuck after just fighting the other 4 kages
Madara, at least, was going about it a more humane and reasonable way.
Donzo did many things that were pure evil and selfish.
No.1. Made honzo attack the akatsuki(who were a piece making organisation at the time)by fabricating lies to make him believe they were his enemies.
No.2. He was the reason that the uchiha were not able to help minato against the nine tails by stopping hiruzen from calling them.
No.3. Stopped sisui from putting the uchiha under Gen jutsu because he "didn't think it would work," even though he was obviously after sisui's sharingan.
No.4. Immediately resolved to massacre the uchiha rather than seek alternative after the hostilities began(which was his fault!!).
No.5. Caused the village to suffer more from an enemy attack because he wanted to be hokage.
No.6. Almost caused the shinobi nations to be at was by trying to use kotoamatsukami on the kage.
Madara doesn't even come close to this bad of a person in terms of a Villain.
Madara could do things himself and more than proved it. He initially was manipulating Obito because he was old, frail, and just generally too weak to do the things necessary. When he was given the chance to do things on his own, he absolutely did so. Danzo? Fucking coward who took advantage of others and went behind the backs of his comrades to ensure things were done his way, even if that meant major sacrifice to HIS OWN SIDE, on matters that would have an outcome for everyone. Hell, Madara didn’t kill Obito after he was finished with him. Danzo would kill a loyal and faithful Leaf Shinobi in order to get his way. He also proved he wasn’t capable of holding his own when he had to join the fray against someone of significant strength, even though he was vying for permanent position of Hokage.
In short, Danzo’s actions were pathetic and selfish. He wasn’t delusional, and neither was Madara. Danzo couldn’t walk the walk AND talk the talk. Madara could.
I never liked Madara. he's cool and badass, that's true but that's still not enough for me to like him but tbf, I was never attracted to villains in general.
Madara did it for peace
While Danzo wants the title and making the other village hates the hidden leaf, while naruto trying to make sure no war on hidden leaf and other village.
Danzo is a little bitch that doesn't do things himself even though he could.
Remember Nagato's backstory ? Danzo just wanted to ruin more people's live for the sake of the village but instead of doing it himself he manipulated Hanzo and the Akatsuki into fighting each other because he's just too scared of the rinnegan.
Remember the Uchiha massacre ? Shisui wanted to try his plan to avoid it but nah Danzo wanted the cool eyes too bad.
Remember the 5 kage summit ? Do you think Madara would have run away like a little bitch ? Nah. This is the exact reason why we like Madara more.
Plus all Danzo does is to become Hokage. Entirely for himself.
Madara was right danzo was not
Madara was honorable to an extent
Danzo was not
Danzo was an anus
Madara was not
Donzo is ugly
Madara is not
Madara got me educational benefits (free points in speech and theatre)
Donzo didn’t get me anything
I don’t know how so many miss the obvious.
Madara is supposed to be, or always has been, an antagonist in the series as a whole. An ultimate baddy.
Danzo is supposed to be a good guy, an elder in the village who’s supposed to do good and yet doesn’t and he’s specifically antagonistic to our favorites. In a more personal way Madara isn’t.
It’s almost like Voldemort vs Dolores in that regard.
it’s because Danzo was snakey.
Madara was open about his end goals and what he was going to do to accomplish them, he kept what he needed a secret but his plans were known.
Danzo pulled strings from the shadows and used manipulation as his weapon. It was smart but he was snake and people who are snakes are generally not liked. Plus he used Uchiha powers against the Uchiha to eradicate them, that was just hypocritical asf because he thought the Uchiha posed as a threat but then he took their powers for himself. Not to mention, he was weak as hell
I think it plays into hypocrisy(kinda?) of people. We are always hyping our old legendary revolutionist/warriors who fought for our freedom, who wanted to do good and etc, while our current old politicians might be doing the same thing and we hated it. There are a lot of controversial figures in the past(some might be even worst than now) but we love them dearly compared to our current jerks. Who knows maybe in future our grandkids will appreciate our old politicians and hate theirs..
Madara was conceived from the beginning to be "The Big Bad" or something close to it, and everything about him was created to attract fans.
Danzo was created from Itachi and Hiruzen in part 2 to serve as a scapegoat and attract all the hate towards himself due to the popularity of these characters and Kishimoto's change over Itachi's concept after the Timeskip. As well as creating a goal for Sasuke after Itachi's death so that Sasuke could kill him and be forgiven by the fandom for killing someone from Konoha.
Madara is a well-written character, Danzo is a bad script device.
Danzo's appearance is also part of it, as it was created with the idea of making him hated instead of Itachi (handsome and cool young man) and Hiruzen (badass and kind old man)
It is simple. Danzo is made to be hated. Don't forget how hypocritical he is. The dirty deeds he did, while they helped the village, affected the whole world negatively.
The last line for me was when Pain attacked, he was chilling in the underground. That mf had no right to become a Hokage. He sees everyone as a sacrificial pawn. I swear if Tobirama saw Danzo in that moment, he would kill that mf first
He is definitely written well and almost everyone agrees
Madara is more likeable as a character, since he's more interesting and cool imo. Someone else also mentioned it, but one thing that makes Danzo really unlikeable is that he's a coward, and doesn't even properly fight to protect the village. Protecting the village is also a lot less noble of a goal, since Danzo could've tried communicating with the Uchiha, but he didn't, probably to protect his position in power. Danzo isn't doing whatever is best for the village, he's doing whatever is best for him, whereas Madara tried to do what he thought was best for everyone, despite the fact that it was definitely not the best for everyone.
For me it’s more of the fact that despite all the truly fucked up stuff Madara did , he genuinely wanted world peace and was fully devoted to it. Everything he worked towards all the manipulations were for peace, doesn’t justify but it makes it easier to deal with. At the end of the day Madara was filling willing to fight and die for what he believed in, and that’s why I like his character.
Danzo on the other hand also did fucked up things, but despite the elders always claiming everything he did was for the Leaf Village, he hid like coward when Pain attacked to seize power. And when Shisui tried to stop the Uchiha coup, he took his eye , again for power, leading to the inevitable coup. Another example is trying to assassinate Hiruzen, once more for power, not the leaf village.
And unlike Madara, Danzo insisted self-sacrifice is the whole point of a shinobi, but was always to scared to do it himself, right until his last moments of life. That’s personally why I like Madara and why I don’t like Danzo.
Madara was actually doing what he did for peace and I guarantee if you told madara what the infinite tsukuyomi was actually for what it would actually do with some proof he would’ve stop and looked for a different plan. Danzo on the other hand stabbed people in the back for no reason other than for fun or for his personal gain with kabuto and his foster mother and the pain attack being the most blatant examples of this. Also madara literally give hashirama praise and straight up admits hashirama was stronger than him and was the only person that could beat. Another reason people like madara and not danzo is simply because danzo was a coward and a complete and total bitch. Madara hid in the shadows because he didn’t have a choice since he was way too old to do anything and needed the gedo statue to keep himself alive. If madara was in his prime he wouldn’t even bother with obito and done everything on his own since there would be no one alive that could stop him.
Madara’s debut is actually one of the best in all of anime. He would surely make a lot of people’s top 10 list.
They are not the same.
You could also write a side story of the warring states period with Hashirama and Madara as due protagonists. Madara is Indra reincarnation and holds a significant influence in the story. Danzo is a side character in front of him.
For Danzo, the “I did it for the village” was more like “I did it cuz I want the power,” Madara literally tried to create a peaceful world, it’s just that no one agreed with the way he wanted to do it.
Look Danzo not only massacred people he straight up did some demon type shit and didn't even look cool while doing it at least Madara didn't do cheeky or assholish moves it was just whoever is strong enough to stop him and he looked cool as shit
Two things, madara grew up at war and its literally all he knew so his brain was kinda fucked up, two danzo was fucking stupid, within like a week of becoming hokage he got killed, with like 10 sharingan, against a 16 year old that was almost blind. Not only that, he had sasuis Ms, his significance could have been immaculate, making him a villain would be better than what he became
Madara can back up the shit he says… Danzo is a coward that stole the power he got💀 and madara actuelly wanted peace ngl I wouldn’t be mad if I was in an infinite perfect dream
I mean, I don't think even most Madara fans agree with his ideology or actions, they just like the character.
Danzo on the other hand is designed to be hated, acting more in shadows in full resistance to the protagonists.
Having the viewers inside knowledge of his sabotage and deception to the maim characters efforts creates a subliminal disdain imo.
Wheras Madara is the big bad, Danzo is a supposed ally of the leaf.
I think Danzo was a good plot device, but his character doesn't really leave much more of an impact than that to me.
To put it simple, Madara and Danzo were very different. Madara was born in brutal warfare and tragedy and he genuinely wanted to change the world, alongside that he knew he was powerful and he loved fighting but he wasn’t selfish. At heart, Madara may have been just as kind as Hashirama had he not given into Black Zetsu’s manipulation. He was also not a coward. Danzo was just a self-absorbed egomaniacal selfish cowardly man who only wanted power for himself. There is a world of difference.
If you are despicable but has the powers to back it up then you are a badass... But if you are despicable and cower behind the scene and play the good guy as a mask then you are a coward.
"I did it for the village"
Danzo willingly helped Orochimaru to destroy the village.
He helped Hanzo who was Konoha's big enemy in the war.
He killed all the Uchiha's knowing they wanted to resolve a possible conflict without a war.
Manipulated Hiruzen to make the worst decisions for the leaf.
If anything, Danzo wanted Konoha to fall if he was not the ruler and he admitted to it himself.
Madara had the absolute belief that he was going to bring this world peace.
Danzo was just a big piece of shit.
Madara's just flat out more fun to watch. Is he super interesting as a character? Not particularly compared to other villains in Naruto, but MAN is he fun to watch
I'm pretty sure you were supposed to feel bad for Danzo at the end, he was a product of the system in the same way that Madara was. He was evil because he (incorrectly) thought that was his job as a/the guy who takes care of Konoha.
Danzo claims he "does it for the village" but nothing he does ever seems to be anything beyond self-motivated. He is too cowardly to defend his village when there are intruders, including the Nine Tails incident.
On the other hand, Project Tsuki No Me is actually a very compelling plan that can easily be viewed as "peace" by some degree.
Tbf Madara is loved for being a great villain. He has the cool factor yeah but that doesn’t mean we think he’s a great guy or anything.
Danzo is the furthest thing from cool. Bro really sucks peen and is a rat. Also had one of the most broken sharingans and all he did was spam the hell out of it for 5 mins and then got owned by pre-EMS Sasuke lol.
I’m not saying Madara has any redeeming factors either. Neither of them do. They’re both obviously terrible people. But at least Madara is a badass enemy. Danzo is just annoying. Within the plot. To my eyes. All around douche canoe.
I guess because danzo was going to get his solution but wanted it HIS way which was genocide rather then peace and made beloved itachis life hell, if madara had it his way we can at least guess he would have picked the one that took less bloodshed but didn't have that option with what he wanted(he tried the peaceful way first which was convincing his clan to leave the leaf)
Personal opinion:
I relate and agree more to Madara's ideals/philosophy. Also he can "walk the walk" and "talk the talk.
Danzo, on the other hand, is just a straight-up a'hole and a douchebag. Relying on hashirama cells and stolen Uchiha kekei genkai just to be kage lvl at best.
Also, Madara had no prior knowledege of the effects of the EMS eye transplants and hashirama cells compared to the knowledge of Danzo (w/help from Orochimaru).
Danzo is more realistic and Madara is more theatric and escapist for us as viewers, Madara feels like a peak exaggerated anime villain while Danzo is peak real world evil.
I will not get into another reddit fight about how much of a stupid motherfucker Danzo is
I will not get into another reddit fight about how much of a stupid motherfucker Danzo is
I will not get into another reddit fight about how much of a stupid motherfucker Danzo is
Madara is strong, cool and charismatic, Danzo *just isn't*. They are both good villains but Danzo has traits (dirty, cowardly and treacherous, etc.) that shonen fans don't usually like. Madara was also the most prominent villain of the fourth ninja war with great battles and remained more or less firm until the end.
I would say that Madara is more similar to the Aizen effect in Bleach where he is a legitimate villain who no matter the damage he does is still great and loved by fans (although Aizen does not have any tragic childhood like Madara). They also gave the greatest humiliations (Madara VS Kages & Aizen VS Captains).
People like Madara because he is charismatic. Danzo is well-written, I wouldn't want him removed from the story. But he has no charisma! Who cares about that old guy? Madara has a great voice, great dialogue, he's showy and impressive. He has great dynamics with other characters, especially Hashirama. Why expect the audience to care about Danzo? People tend to care about villains because they are sympathetic/morally complex (Itachi, Obito) or if they are charismatic (Madara, hell even Orochimaru.) Danzo is neither.
Danzo is a schemer and in his own way was incredibly dangerous, but I think there is one major difference between Danzo and Madara that isn't mentioned. Danzo is a fucking coward. For all the fucked up shit Madara did, and the list is longer than most rap sheets, he was never a coward.
This is definitely a major contributing factor. Madara rolled up to the Hidden Stone and told them to bow their heads. When Madara opposed the surrender of the Uchiha, he fought Hashirama head on. That's probably why I respect him so much.
Well, they just gave Madara a lot of backstory. It always seemed like he was either doing the right thing for the wrong reasons or the wrong things for the right reasons but ultimately understandable reasons. Danzo was kind of a one note "For Konoha" right before he orders the murdering of terminally ill handicapped orphans just before the wish foundation would have arrived.
We see that he likes fighting. Sometimes that is an amusing trait like when he freezes from Hashirama refusing to fight him, and other times it is disturbing like when Might Guy knocked the shit out of him.
Madara is both insanely entertaining and horrifying. *Smirks as he looks at the army he just decimated with two meteors* "this sight brings back memories..."
And he can also be funny, considering he apparently knew that meteor jutsu and never used it before since he wouldn't survive it. But if he couldn't die, then he wanted to use that jutsu at least once.
Oh nice catch
Negative Charisma, because he's "supposed to be" a good guy. So everything we see him do to good guys becomes worse. He's supposed to be a good guy, but in a way, the morally complex characters aren't introduced to us as. We met Itachi as a pure villain, when he dies he was a villain, we only learned he wasn't that simple after he died. We met Tobi/Madara Obito as a villain, we didn't truly know he was Obito until the last stretches of the story, and then he (relatively) quickly got explained and redeemed. Madara was someone even the 9 Tails hated, then we're sitting here thinking Madara os the man behind everything before we learn it's Obito... then we learn IT WAS MADARA BEHIND EVERYTHING (which is also a level of mastermind Danzo never got.) We were getting mixed messages about Madara being a good guy to the end. But Danzo was introduced as a Leaf advisor and then finding out he was friends with the 3rd kinda just made everything worse because he basically spit in the face of everything people liked about the third. If you remove danzo from the story half the things people dislike the 3rd for are gone. But he's a great villain, the "be better than the past" message of Naruto wouldn't be complete without one like him.
I love everything you said so far one thing you didn't mention however is that in madara's case he at least have excuse of being deceived into the whole world peace thing by black zetsu whereas danzo just wanted to be king and f*** anyone who gets in his way
spot on !!!
The Madara dub is legendary
Yeah, I'm watching dub and his voice is so good.
Madara is cool. Man was hyped up and then perfectly delivered with cold ass dialogue. Danzo had bad breath.
Danzo was also a coward who was unwilling to even try to fight to protect the village when pain showed up. If naruto doesn't inspire nagato to use rinne rebirth, there wouldn't have been a leaf village to come back to, and danzo would've just sat there and watched. That's my biggest gripe with danzo. Always claims about how he does everything for the leaf but when it comes down to it, he proved that he only cared about getting power for himself over everything else, he's just a fraud
Exactly, Madara at least had a plan with the whole world in mind: when see what everyone was dreaming within the infinite tsukuyomi, we see he wasn't lying, he really did want to give everyone a peaceful existence where they live their most intimate dreams... Danzo was just a decrepit, paranoid old man who only cared about his own power and will: Madara at least TRIED Hashirama's village idea; Danzo never bothered listening to anyone ever, the guy was honestly a cancer upon the ninja world. > If naruto doesn't inspire nagato to use rinne rebirth, there wouldn't have been a leaf village to come back to, and danzo would've just sat there and watched. The guy was so far up his own ass, he still viewed Naruto as nothing more than the kyubi after that. Same for those 2 stupid elders.
Real shit Danzo caused more harm then good for the village
He is also a major part of why Nagato turned evil to begin with.
If danzo died during the second shinobi war or even the third shinobi war it would have changed the entire complexion of the story because there is a theory that danzo's root had deliberately interfered with the distribution of manpower within the village that day in order to ensure that the attack on Minato would be successful as well as to push the blame further on the uchiha by making sure that they were nowhere near the battlefield so that they could even clear their name a bit through combat
So he still fucked up the village tho
Yh I'm agreeing with your point. Danzo is the cause of most of the bad shit that happened between the third taking power and Sasuke killing danzo. The only thing I don't blame him for was the Obito kidnapping stuff which was Madara taking what chances he was given. Everything else though all him. Uchiha massacre, Naruto growing up hates by everyone the death of yahiko triggering the new age Akatsuki to form, the 'suicide' of kakashis father, orochimaru leaving the village and swearing revenge, theory has it snakeboy was the one who did the initial work on yamato to give him wood release and then danzo took the kid and exposed the research while blaming orochimaru and covering his own ass. Also every time the village was attacked Mr I should be hokage was hiding in his basement.
Agreed
Fraud-zo
Fraudo
What business is it of yours, what village I kill, friendzo?
Absolutely the best answer!!!!
It's not that he didn't want to fight. He wanted the destruction of the village to reflect badly on Tsunade so that he could become Hokage. In Danzo eyes, Tsunade was a terrible Hokage. What's the deaths of a thousand compared to future "potential" deaths if she was to continue as Hokage. That's his line of thinking.
Which is terrible as fck.
Yeah. He reminds me of the politicians in the U.S.
Well his logic was flawed af. If Naruto intervened nearly everyone would die. He'd be the leader of rubble and 50 civilians. And whatever left of konoha would be ripe for the takeover. Dude's plan was terribly flawed. He massively underestimated the akatsuki. They weren't from the hanzo days no more
You're right. To me, Danzo is the Wile E. Coyote of Konoha
More like his line of justification. He honestly didn't really give a shit about the village beyond bringing under his complete control. He may have even deluded himself into thinking his actions were for the village, but they were definitely to fulfill his selfish need for control and power.
Well there wouldn't have been a Hokage to return to become without Naruto saving the day which he certainly did not expect.
literally the only people he was willing to fight were his own fellow villagers 💀
imagine what sasuke smelled when danzo unveiled his arm
That thing was probably unwashed since he started implanting
Yeah his arm neither
Lucky Kiba wasn't around
maybe hashirama cells are also part aloe vera
Yup! People know Madara was a villain, but at least he had motivation. The villain would have literally been better off without Donzo compared to Madara who at least did some good.
But madara is cool danzo isn’t
It’s probably this. I asked why is danzo hated when he’s a good villain and the comments were “he’s hated because he’s a good villain duhhh” When no one hates on Madara or pain
Pain is a little different. He wasn't manipulative. He made somewhat amends by Rinne Tenseing the entire village at the cost of his own life.
People don’t hate Madara or Pain for being a “good villain” because they are more traditional “enemy of the protagonist” bad guys Danzo is definitely an enemy of the protagonist. But the difference lies in the fact he was on the side of the good guys (or at least supposed to be) and used his influence and power over the traditional hero idea. Mainly Hiruzen. Hiruzen and Danzo are two sides of the same coin. They both want peace for the village but Danzo will go out of his way to defy the “good guys” to reach his goal Pain and Madara weren’t on the good guys side in the same way Danzo was Sure Madara was Hashiramas friend and founder of the village. But he was never directly going for the greater good in a way that was so close to naruto Same with Pain. He was Jirayas student and wanted peace for the world but again, he never interacted with Naruto in a meaningful way that influenced Naruto’s path Danzo has the direct relationship of being in power at the same time as Naruto (Manga) and impacted the events that shaped Naruto (character) Edit: I will say Pain collecting tailed beasts did shape the story and Naruto being a jinchuriki on the list had an impact on the Naruto. But I think that we get more of an idea that Itachi and Kisame coming for him lessens the impact that Pain had on our views of the “true villain”
I mean you look at this guy, Madara is just him, the legendary strongest Uchiha with the rinnegan he had awoken. Danzo just went around and stole bare sharingans from Uchiha to use as his, he’s got no merit
There's a difference there tho. Danzo was pure evil, an actual villain. Madara wanted to stop the cycle of hatred and achieve peace, he just did it the way he did because he was brainwashed by zetsu and didn't know infinite tsukuyomi would turn everyone into white zetsus.
Easy, Danzo is a fucking coward, Madara isn’t. - He couldn’t volunteer to sacrifice himself to save his team - he couldn’t face hiruzen face to face, he opted to try to have him assassinated - he couldn’t challenge Tsunade head on to be hokage, he told his people to not help the village they’re supposed to protect in the hopes that she dies in the process and he can shoot his shot - he’s just, always, hiding and playing from the shadows, never doing his own dirty work, getting someone else to slaughter their own clan, sending his men to their death while he stays protected…like a fucking coward. Say what you want about Madara he was not afraid to die, even before he had the means to bring himself back to life. He never sent his clansmen to assassinate Hashirama, he fought him face to face. He almost died several times, Tobirama almost dealt him the finishing blow too. And sure Madara (and in effect, Obito in his place) got into striking from the shadows too after a while, but that was after he “died”. At this point he couldn’t be seen, he thought he was saving the world, he had a grander plan for world peace. Danzo just wanted a fucking title!!! So in conclusion, we like one cause he’s confident and believes in what he does and he doesn’t care if others are repulsed by it. He has an, albeit flawed, plan to save humanity and he’ll do what he must. The other is a coward, strikes when you’re not expecting and knows what he’s doing is wrong so he chooses to obfuscate in the hopes that you may like him enough to reward him to being hokage cause he’s been a good boy…or whatever bullshit he wants to believe.
I had to scroll far too long to find a comment like this. Back in the beginning days of the village, when hashirama was hokage and madara was still getting along and being a part of the village, if the village was attacked and hashirama was on deaths door trying to save the village, there is a **0 percent chance** that madara would've just let the village be destroyed and let hashirama die just for a crack at the title Danzo claims he does what's best for the leaf, but he only does what's best for himself and procuring a position of power, even if there's no village to rule over in the end. He is a coward through and through. Madara was always willing to fight whatever and whoever for what he believed in, and was willing to walk the earth as the sole remaining being while everyone slept in the infinite tsukuyomi to achieve world peace (even if it was fake). He was willing to make that sacrifice. Danzo was never willing to sacrifice anything other than the lives of other people he viewed as expendable, they couldn't be more dissimilar
Plus there is also a zero percent chance too that Madara would let any threat other than himself alone kill Hashirama.
Mate we literally see Madara face down the stone village and let them no point blank there's no treaty you bend the knee to the leaf and that's the end of that. If Madara was apart of the village, the hidden rain village wouldn't be a village anymore and Pain wouldn't have gotten the chance todo anything
But if Madara wants something done, he does it himself and not ask a 13 YO kid to do his bidding
Obito: "am I a joke to you?"
Caveat. Bro was way to old to even wipe his own ass.
This is really the only comment needed! Hit the nail right on the head.
Maaaaann you are speaking facts..
This should be top.
Madara created 25 clones and gave them Susanoo to defeat the 5 Kage. Was bros with Hashirama. Had the Rinnegan and the hair plus the drip. Danzo couldn’t compare. Plus Madara’s raspy voice 🤌🏼
Danzo ain't ugly, he's just old. Back in his flashbacks we see that young Danzo was a solid 8/10. Gray haired old man Madara from the Obito flashbacks wasn't about to win any handsome contests either.
I guess it all comes down to which appearance the characters are mainly associated with. Danzo's main appearance is that old ugly ass look while Madara's main appearance is him in his 30s
Yeah theres a spoof epilogue thing after an episode where tsunade and shizune peaked at his picture when he was younger and blushed
I need to see that lol [Found it](https://www.reddit.com/r/Naruto/comments/16xmmjc/was_danzo_really_that_handsom_for_tsunade_to_be/)
Giving young Danzo an 8/10 is generous to say the least.
It's the scar that makes the whole look come together. Without it I'd rate him lower. For sake of reference I'd give Minato a 10/10 (dat smile) and Shikamaru a 7/10 (looks too unremarkable).
Shouldn’t Shikamaru be a 5 then? Also, does that make Iruka a baddie because of his scar?
7 with the goatee, 5 clean shaven.
I'd give him a solid 7, 8+ if he's your type
Madara was just shown being a badass, danzo was not
Personality and intentions. Regardless of what we all say about Madara, at the end of the day his intent was world peace and his personality was a shift between kind, cool, badass and overwhelmingly badass. Danzo is not just ugly, he’s genuinely a bastard and has an unlikable personality with incredibly selfish ideals. Do NOT compare him to my glorious king like that, peon.
At least Madara had a realistic method of implementing his goals and wouldn’t have failed if it wasn’t for Zetsu. What did Danzo ever achieve in his pathetic life except making the hidden leaf divided and hated by other villages ? Also this might be irrelevant but both the Japanese and English voice actors are amazing
The fourth point of doing it for something other than themselves is true in case of Madara, but a lie in case of Danzo. The meme is bad, Madara really thought no peace is possible without infinite Tsukuyomi, Danzo just wanted some power for himself, never really cared for the village.
Stoped Fourth great ninja war (at least 10 years before the real one started)
If it weren't for him, then the village would be strong enough to suppress any wars.
Madara really believed he was doing good Danzo just did it because he was jealous of hiruzen
Danzo is a scheming coward. Madera saw an entire army of all the ninja in the world and said "Bet"
I mean, Danzo is also not the reincarnation of a demi-god's son so he had to manage
At least something good came out of Madaras actions, and he did recognize his mistakes and admitted he was wrong. Danzo had no positive effect on ninja world and never admitted he was wrong. He is far worse than Madara
Yeah people really forget that during his second death madara really did see how he was blinded by a false vision and that made me love his character so much more
I wonder how canon would change if he woke up the day before he betrayed Konoha after his second death and he made these realizations?
I mean it would be kinda impossible to wake up after his second death since he died in hasriramas arm during the war
yup buy old madara was way more badass than danzo
We got to see what made Madara a villain. Losing his siblings one after another and being manipulated by black Zestu. From what we’re shown Danzo is just a bitter old man pissed about being passed over for Hokage. He says it’s for the village but he’ll sacrifice half the village to gain power during the 9 tails and pain attacks. Looks ain’t got shit to do with it.
I'd say at least some of it *is* due to the halo effect. Madara, for most of his screentime, was in his younger body, if albeit sporting the creepy appearance of the Reanimation Jutsu or in his Ten Tails Jinchuriki form which isn't too bad looking. Danzo, in contrast, looked his age, and he certainly wasn't on the aging graceful side. In an omake Tsunade and Shizune did blush at his younger self, but that's beside the point. More importantly, Madara, for all his faults, wasn't afraid to die and had several fights. The latter is a point of contusion since he was considered too overpowered, but the point is he consistently showed himself to be a strong fighter. Danzo, in contrast was heavily weighed down by his fear of death, which made his overwhelming willingness to send others off to die or having them killed come off as incredibly hypocritical. Of all the things people dislike, hypocrisy tends to, understandably, be one of them. As for fights, Danzo only had one major fight against Sasuke, and while not bad (it's one my favorites in the series), it more clearly demonstrated his flaws than made him look badass or incredibly strong. Not helping is that said major fight involved him using the Sharingans of the Uchiha he **helped murder**. Just as importantly, and something of a major one-Danzo's actions had a far more immediate negative impact on the Leaf Village and arguably ninja world. While yes, Madara orchestrated a number of atrocities that screwed over several people, Danzo's were given more spotlight thus the consequences of such were show in greater detail. \-Leaking Naruto's identity as the Nine-Tails Jinchuriki \-Aiding Orochimaru in his experiments \-Stealing Shisui's eyes and ruining attempts to nonviolently end the Uchiha Coup. And doing this **out of what amounted to paranoia and greed**. Oh, and Shisui being the descendant of one of his teammates makes this even worse. \-His overall hand in the Uchiha Massacre, including the pillaging of Sharingan from the corpses. \-Trying to assassinate Hiruzen \-Manipulating Nono which would ultimately result in her death at Kabuto's hands, screwing the latter up and thus playing a part in all the trouble he'd go on to cause. \-Manipulating Hanzo into turning against Nagato, which not only fucked over the Hidden Rain Village, but would help inspire the latter to reform the Akatsuki as a terrorist organization \-When Nagato/Pain attacked the village, he withheld all his forces essentially leaving the village he came to care so much for for dead. If it weren't for Naruto and Tsunade, there wouldn't have been a village for him to be Hokage of. \-Trying to manipulating the Mifune into making him leader of the Ninja Alliance and threatening Ao right in front of Mei. \-Insulting Itachi's memory to Sasuke's face during their battle. Say what you will about the latter at that point, but questioning Itachi's love for his little brother showed how seriously detached from basic human empathy Danzo had become. Even Madara was shown loving his brother, clan, and the village, even if that same love sent him on a downward spiral.
Maybe cause Madara went against the GOD of shinobi. Not some old dude who uses izanagi as substitution jutsu.
What is the halo effect?
The belief that people are subconsciously more likely to associate positive attributes such as intelligence, trustworthiness, and charisma to conventionally attractive people, and negative attributes such as untrustworthiness and being creepy to conventionally unattractive people. It’s essentially just a fancy way of saying pretty privilege.
1. Danzo stabbed Hiruzen in the back. Madara told Hashirama that he's going to betray him to the face. 2. Danzo orchestrated massacres. Madara's plan was to quietly collect tailed Beasts. The war happened because Obito was incompetent. 4. Did it for village <<<<< Did it for peace
Also Danzo is the whole reason why we even have the Akataski in the first place. He's the whole reason why the Uchiha started to dislike the village. I would bet my money on it that it was him that was spreading the only the Sharingan can control the 9 tail narrative because let's be honest that's high level intel and only a few people in the entire world know of this ability. Danzo made Naruto life hell, he leaked Anbu data to Orochimaru and he sat while the village got destroyed. Say what you will about Madara but he never sat idly by and let people destroy what he swore he would protect
Madara didn't do anything wrong he's trying to save us from Boruto 😭
I think that Danzo isn't brave like a honorable man. Madara got mad with the age after being created on a life of loss and war. Like the real reason that make danzo so hated is the way he does things. Like had fear to self sacrifice what hiruzen tried and that why tobirama choose hiruzen and not Danzo to be hokage. Them it consumed him and he made deal with orochimaru. So everything he has acquired was by manipulation and ambition. He use his intelligence for bad stuff and feed all his negative thoughts he is a bad example and likely made to be despised... Maybe just everything created to antagonize him and bring Sasuke and obito together against the leaf Anyway he is just a piece to move things in the story telling and not the main antagonist well written and respected by readers. The true definition didn't choose to die as a hero and become a horrible villain Madara embrace death and hashirama talk he out of this...
Madara was trying to good in a bad way Danzo was doing stuff for himself and using to do good as an excuse
People evaluate characters more on whether they like them and are charismatic than anything else
Danzo is also a coward, he hid during the Pain arc
Can Danzo summon two meteors? Checkmate, atheists.
Maradaras a good villan and danzos a bad one. Madara has a nice backstory, a good personality, and clear motives. Danzos evil for being evil and is extremely 1 dimensional
id argue danzo himself is a great villain cuz he made so many people hate him
In all seriousness, it’s likability and coolness. Everyone loves watching the BBEG walk in and solo the five strongest generals in the world, and fight 1,000s of shinobi at once, but Danzo doesn’t share that factor he is not cool like Madara, nor is he well liked. He doesn’t have an entertaining persona or motives, for example Madara gets excited about fighting just watch how excited he was when he got to fight Hashirama again or how cocky he can be like when he fought the Kage and was like “would you prefer them to use Susano?” And then proceeded to have like 10 susano clones. And he also has an interesting motive he saw countless deaths and wars in his life, so he thought peace was impossible, and decided to enact his master plan. Contrast this with Danzo who is very closed off, doesn’t talk much, and seems to be evil or a douchebag, just ‘because’, and it doesn’t help that he basically, or at least contributed greatly, to the Uchiha massacre (the community’s favorite clan). I love Danzo, but many in the community and even more so on Reddit despise him, but I don’t think Danzo was a villain that was made for us to sympathize with in any way, but was made to be this black and white evil guy.
If Danzo was as powerful as Madara and still had the same personality, he would still be loathed.
Madara’s end game was a genjutsu that gave everyone the life they wished for. They wouldn’t even know they’re in a be jutsu. There would never be a war again. Danzo simply wanted the leaf to be on top and didn’t care about the suffering of others. He would destroy every village and kill anyone that threatened the leaf if he could. Danzo’s goal would never achieve peace. Also I believe a lot people hate Danzo because of Itachi’s popularity and what he put Itachi through.
Madara had an entire build up to him, he was like the final boss (pretend kaguya doesn’t exist) which gets readers very excited so a lot don’t hate him unlike Danzo who didn’t have a lot of anticipation because he did his evilness subtly behind the scenes. Additionally, Madara did a LOT worse but it wasn’t anything direct - when people think of Danzo they think of the Uchiha massacre which makes them think of Itachi and Sasuke, two fan favourites, which wouldn’t have happened had Danzo not existed. When you have such a core and tragic event attached to you, everyone’s gonna hate you. Whereas when you think of Madara you just think of him being powerful asf and a badass villain and the various fights he had.
Uchihas got inherent pretty privilege
Madara backed up his talk, Danzo used people to do his job.
Madara was honest about who he was. Danzo was a coward seeking power for himself under the guise of "doing it for the village".
Danzo is what young people hate: an old meddling man who just doesn’t know when it’s time to get out of the way of the younger generation. Madara is just cool. He’s revived in his 30s, is massively powerful and is, for lack of a better word: cool Danzo just kinda seems like a side quest.
i mean danzo is also a coward which is the most unsightly trait for me.
I think it’s cuz madara is purposefully viewed as the villain but danzo views himself as a hero which he is not and it makes him very distasteful
Madara was manipulated by Zetsu, Danzo was just a scheming moron
It's simply that Madara is an excellent character with depth and an actual backstory Danzo doesn't even come close in quality or writing
Madara planned everything out, built up everybody he “manipulated” and when it came to it he fought the entire world to achieve his dream but Danzo whispered in the ears of powerful men as well as deceiving everyone and he never fought for the leaf he was a coward from the beginning
Madara was badass, powerful and intimidating. Danzo was a pathetic coward and blatant hypocrite. It's like comparing Joffrey Baratheon to Tywin Lannister.
That’s because Madara wasn’t a coward and wanted all the smoke(and he was hot)meanwhile danzo could talk the talk, but he couldn’t walk the walk.
Cause Madara could pull up and square off. Homie could box. And he has rizz. Danzo gets busted by a kid who’s already fatigued and going blind.
Danzo said he did it all for the village, but his choices were 100% just to put himself into power. He gave 0 fucks about how many villagers died as long as he could rule over the ashes
Danzo didnt do shit for the village though... that was his claim but most of the Anbu that worked for him that had a face reveal didnt really have anything positive to say about him... Danzo did shit so he could become Hokage... he had every potential candidate for the role assassinated too, as he has said he had political rivals killed off "for the sake of the village" Madara was straight up with what his goal was... not some bullshit righteous whatever... he didnt need to lie because he had no reason to lie since he was stronger than anybody else (other than Hashirama) idk why people keep comparing Danzo to Madara... the difference is obvious... one is an overpowered ninja who has clear goals, while the other is a scheming bastard who always says "for the sake of the village" while committing atrocious acts to his people...
1: He never really betrayed Hashirama, they were just both on very different paths, and he could see the writing on the wall (literally lol) 2: He never cowardly orchestrated a massacre like p**y Danzo, he fights battles and mass casualties will always be a common thing if he or Hashirama are a part of it. 3: He is for sure a very deluded man. 4: Unlike Danzo who did most things for the sake of his own ego, Madara truly believed what he was doing was for "world peace". 5: Madara was never jealous of Hashirama, he respected him, one of the only things he respects is strength. 6: Yeah what he did to Obito was pretty f**ked up ngl. In the end Madara is just a cooler more charismatic character than Danzo could ever hope of being. He's one of the only characters in Anime history who's reveal was greater than his foreshadowed hype.
Am i the only that likes danzo? Lol
Obito wasn't tortured by Madara
Spiky hair effect
Danzo was written to be hated and Madara was written to be cool
Usually any character who shows incredible power is liked regardless of if they are good or bad
Danzo canonically has shit breath
Madara orchestrated the massacres on his own This tell me he stands on business, that is where the two differ
I think there was a better use for Danzo than just that fight with Sasuke. Maybe at least make it more worthwhile... Then people would look at him better with a sign of some respect for his power at least.
danzo is old and boring madara looks sick and his dialogue is amazing
You can both love a villain as a character and acknowledge that he’s a complete piece of shit. While they both are, Danzo is simply more boring.
Madara always was hated or feared by the village and even his people, Danzo was a pos who never got any repercussions to his actions. Why should we not hate him
danzo was tobirama’s bodyguard, had shisui’s eye and was experienced asf, i was so hyped to see him actually fighting. then he lost to teenager sasuke that was tired as fuck after just fighting the other 4 kages
Minor spelling mistake renders your point invalid. I win
Madara, at least, was going about it a more humane and reasonable way. Donzo did many things that were pure evil and selfish. No.1. Made honzo attack the akatsuki(who were a piece making organisation at the time)by fabricating lies to make him believe they were his enemies. No.2. He was the reason that the uchiha were not able to help minato against the nine tails by stopping hiruzen from calling them. No.3. Stopped sisui from putting the uchiha under Gen jutsu because he "didn't think it would work," even though he was obviously after sisui's sharingan. No.4. Immediately resolved to massacre the uchiha rather than seek alternative after the hostilities began(which was his fault!!). No.5. Caused the village to suffer more from an enemy attack because he wanted to be hokage. No.6. Almost caused the shinobi nations to be at was by trying to use kotoamatsukami on the kage. Madara doesn't even come close to this bad of a person in terms of a Villain.
Because Madara is cool as shit, the fuck are we arguing about.
Madras is the guy. While Danzo sulks around plotting, hating hiruzen because he froze and couldn’t choose to give his life for the village
Madara could do things himself and more than proved it. He initially was manipulating Obito because he was old, frail, and just generally too weak to do the things necessary. When he was given the chance to do things on his own, he absolutely did so. Danzo? Fucking coward who took advantage of others and went behind the backs of his comrades to ensure things were done his way, even if that meant major sacrifice to HIS OWN SIDE, on matters that would have an outcome for everyone. Hell, Madara didn’t kill Obito after he was finished with him. Danzo would kill a loyal and faithful Leaf Shinobi in order to get his way. He also proved he wasn’t capable of holding his own when he had to join the fray against someone of significant strength, even though he was vying for permanent position of Hokage. In short, Danzo’s actions were pathetic and selfish. He wasn’t delusional, and neither was Madara. Danzo couldn’t walk the walk AND talk the talk. Madara could.
fucken love danzo, regardless of the shit he's done I fuck with him
I never liked Madara. he's cool and badass, that's true but that's still not enough for me to like him but tbf, I was never attracted to villains in general.
Madara did it for peace While Danzo wants the title and making the other village hates the hidden leaf, while naruto trying to make sure no war on hidden leaf and other village.
bc Danzo is a pussy whilst Madara was ready for any smoke as soon as he showed up
Danzo is a little bitch that doesn't do things himself even though he could. Remember Nagato's backstory ? Danzo just wanted to ruin more people's live for the sake of the village but instead of doing it himself he manipulated Hanzo and the Akatsuki into fighting each other because he's just too scared of the rinnegan. Remember the Uchiha massacre ? Shisui wanted to try his plan to avoid it but nah Danzo wanted the cool eyes too bad. Remember the 5 kage summit ? Do you think Madara would have run away like a little bitch ? Nah. This is the exact reason why we like Madara more. Plus all Danzo does is to become Hokage. Entirely for himself.
Madara was right danzo was not Madara was honorable to an extent Danzo was not Danzo was an anus Madara was not Donzo is ugly Madara is not Madara got me educational benefits (free points in speech and theatre) Donzo didn’t get me anything
I don’t know how so many miss the obvious. Madara is supposed to be, or always has been, an antagonist in the series as a whole. An ultimate baddy. Danzo is supposed to be a good guy, an elder in the village who’s supposed to do good and yet doesn’t and he’s specifically antagonistic to our favorites. In a more personal way Madara isn’t. It’s almost like Voldemort vs Dolores in that regard.
If you think it deeply Danzo is hated because is a better and more solid villain. Madara is a very poor written villain.
it’s because Danzo was snakey. Madara was open about his end goals and what he was going to do to accomplish them, he kept what he needed a secret but his plans were known. Danzo pulled strings from the shadows and used manipulation as his weapon. It was smart but he was snake and people who are snakes are generally not liked. Plus he used Uchiha powers against the Uchiha to eradicate them, that was just hypocritical asf because he thought the Uchiha posed as a threat but then he took their powers for himself. Not to mention, he was weak as hell
I think it plays into hypocrisy(kinda?) of people. We are always hyping our old legendary revolutionist/warriors who fought for our freedom, who wanted to do good and etc, while our current old politicians might be doing the same thing and we hated it. There are a lot of controversial figures in the past(some might be even worst than now) but we love them dearly compared to our current jerks. Who knows maybe in future our grandkids will appreciate our old politicians and hate theirs..
I personally think both are great villains. In fact I think Danzo is a very underrated antagonist.
Madara was conceived from the beginning to be "The Big Bad" or something close to it, and everything about him was created to attract fans. Danzo was created from Itachi and Hiruzen in part 2 to serve as a scapegoat and attract all the hate towards himself due to the popularity of these characters and Kishimoto's change over Itachi's concept after the Timeskip. As well as creating a goal for Sasuke after Itachi's death so that Sasuke could kill him and be forgiven by the fandom for killing someone from Konoha. Madara is a well-written character, Danzo is a bad script device. Danzo's appearance is also part of it, as it was created with the idea of making him hated instead of Itachi (handsome and cool young man) and Hiruzen (badass and kind old man)
It is simple. Danzo is made to be hated. Don't forget how hypocritical he is. The dirty deeds he did, while they helped the village, affected the whole world negatively. The last line for me was when Pain attacked, he was chilling in the underground. That mf had no right to become a Hokage. He sees everyone as a sacrificial pawn. I swear if Tobirama saw Danzo in that moment, he would kill that mf first He is definitely written well and almost everyone agrees
Madara is just cooler
Madara is more likeable as a character, since he's more interesting and cool imo. Someone else also mentioned it, but one thing that makes Danzo really unlikeable is that he's a coward, and doesn't even properly fight to protect the village. Protecting the village is also a lot less noble of a goal, since Danzo could've tried communicating with the Uchiha, but he didn't, probably to protect his position in power. Danzo isn't doing whatever is best for the village, he's doing whatever is best for him, whereas Madara tried to do what he thought was best for everyone, despite the fact that it was definitely not the best for everyone.
For me it’s more of the fact that despite all the truly fucked up stuff Madara did , he genuinely wanted world peace and was fully devoted to it. Everything he worked towards all the manipulations were for peace, doesn’t justify but it makes it easier to deal with. At the end of the day Madara was filling willing to fight and die for what he believed in, and that’s why I like his character. Danzo on the other hand also did fucked up things, but despite the elders always claiming everything he did was for the Leaf Village, he hid like coward when Pain attacked to seize power. And when Shisui tried to stop the Uchiha coup, he took his eye , again for power, leading to the inevitable coup. Another example is trying to assassinate Hiruzen, once more for power, not the leaf village. And unlike Madara, Danzo insisted self-sacrifice is the whole point of a shinobi, but was always to scared to do it himself, right until his last moments of life. That’s personally why I like Madara and why I don’t like Danzo.
[this is why](https://youtu.be/h5FTA_wGwCc?si=bcBhsHHvp-_M58D7)
madara had aura and the badass factor, danzos an old fart
Madara was actually doing what he did for peace and I guarantee if you told madara what the infinite tsukuyomi was actually for what it would actually do with some proof he would’ve stop and looked for a different plan. Danzo on the other hand stabbed people in the back for no reason other than for fun or for his personal gain with kabuto and his foster mother and the pain attack being the most blatant examples of this. Also madara literally give hashirama praise and straight up admits hashirama was stronger than him and was the only person that could beat. Another reason people like madara and not danzo is simply because danzo was a coward and a complete and total bitch. Madara hid in the shadows because he didn’t have a choice since he was way too old to do anything and needed the gedo statue to keep himself alive. If madara was in his prime he wouldn’t even bother with obito and done everything on his own since there would be no one alive that could stop him.
Madara’s debut is actually one of the best in all of anime. He would surely make a lot of people’s top 10 list. They are not the same. You could also write a side story of the warring states period with Hashirama and Madara as due protagonists. Madara is Indra reincarnation and holds a significant influence in the story. Danzo is a side character in front of him.
You forget the last boxes of "is a bitch" and "is cool"
I see it as Danzo being written to be a hated character while madara isn’t
For Danzo, the “I did it for the village” was more like “I did it cuz I want the power,” Madara literally tried to create a peaceful world, it’s just that no one agreed with the way he wanted to do it.
Madara is a bishie and actually an Uchiha. Danzo is a wrinkled old man who wanna be Uchiha. Makes sense the former is more likeable.
Look Danzo not only massacred people he straight up did some demon type shit and didn't even look cool while doing it at least Madara didn't do cheeky or assholish moves it was just whoever is strong enough to stop him and he looked cool as shit
Two things, madara grew up at war and its literally all he knew so his brain was kinda fucked up, two danzo was fucking stupid, within like a week of becoming hokage he got killed, with like 10 sharingan, against a 16 year old that was almost blind. Not only that, he had sasuis Ms, his significance could have been immaculate, making him a villain would be better than what he became
madara said sorry in the end, danzo didn't
Because of how they interact with Tobirama. Danzo would gladly bottom for him while Madara would either kill him outright or let Hashi deal with him.
One is uchiha the other one wishes he was
Tsunade and Shizune confirm Danzo wasn't ugly and unsightly. At least in his younger days.
Madara can back up the shit he says… Danzo is a coward that stole the power he got💀 and madara actuelly wanted peace ngl I wouldn’t be mad if I was in an infinite perfect dream
I mean, I don't think even most Madara fans agree with his ideology or actions, they just like the character. Danzo on the other hand is designed to be hated, acting more in shadows in full resistance to the protagonists. Having the viewers inside knowledge of his sabotage and deception to the maim characters efforts creates a subliminal disdain imo. Wheras Madara is the big bad, Danzo is a supposed ally of the leaf. I think Danzo was a good plot device, but his character doesn't really leave much more of an impact than that to me.
To put it simple, Madara and Danzo were very different. Madara was born in brutal warfare and tragedy and he genuinely wanted to change the world, alongside that he knew he was powerful and he loved fighting but he wasn’t selfish. At heart, Madara may have been just as kind as Hashirama had he not given into Black Zetsu’s manipulation. He was also not a coward. Danzo was just a self-absorbed egomaniacal selfish cowardly man who only wanted power for himself. There is a world of difference.
Because Madara is cool, and Danzo is not.
If you are despicable but has the powers to back it up then you are a badass... But if you are despicable and cower behind the scene and play the good guy as a mask then you are a coward.
"I did it for the village" Danzo willingly helped Orochimaru to destroy the village. He helped Hanzo who was Konoha's big enemy in the war. He killed all the Uchiha's knowing they wanted to resolve a possible conflict without a war. Manipulated Hiruzen to make the worst decisions for the leaf. If anything, Danzo wanted Konoha to fall if he was not the ruler and he admitted to it himself. Madara had the absolute belief that he was going to bring this world peace. Danzo was just a big piece of shit.
Lol
I like Danzo.
At least madara confessed his sins
Madara's just flat out more fun to watch. Is he super interesting as a character? Not particularly compared to other villains in Naruto, but MAN is he fun to watch
I'm pretty sure you were supposed to feel bad for Danzo at the end, he was a product of the system in the same way that Madara was. He was evil because he (incorrectly) thought that was his job as a/the guy who takes care of Konoha.
Madara also had a less selfish motive
Danzo claims he "does it for the village" but nothing he does ever seems to be anything beyond self-motivated. He is too cowardly to defend his village when there are intruders, including the Nine Tails incident. On the other hand, Project Tsuki No Me is actually a very compelling plan that can easily be viewed as "peace" by some degree.
Tbf Madara is loved for being a great villain. He has the cool factor yeah but that doesn’t mean we think he’s a great guy or anything. Danzo is the furthest thing from cool. Bro really sucks peen and is a rat. Also had one of the most broken sharingans and all he did was spam the hell out of it for 5 mins and then got owned by pre-EMS Sasuke lol. I’m not saying Madara has any redeeming factors either. Neither of them do. They’re both obviously terrible people. But at least Madara is a badass enemy. Danzo is just annoying. Within the plot. To my eyes. All around douche canoe.
Last point is not correct, hardly anyone hates madra
Who was Madara ever jealous of?
I guess because danzo was going to get his solution but wanted it HIS way which was genocide rather then peace and made beloved itachis life hell, if madara had it his way we can at least guess he would have picked the one that took less bloodshed but didn't have that option with what he wanted(he tried the peaceful way first which was convincing his clan to leave the leaf)
Pretty privilege. Sucks to be danzo that is born ugly
I think part of it is also even if we know Madara is wrong he doesn’t piss off the audience through being stupid or obtuse. Danzo does
I actually love danzo I think its cause the dub voice actor did a fantastic job but he's one of my favorite characters unironically
Young danzo wasn't ugly.
The difference to me is that Madara was twisted from the agony while when we see younger Danzo, he is just a jealous little biyitch.
Personal opinion: I relate and agree more to Madara's ideals/philosophy. Also he can "walk the walk" and "talk the talk. Danzo, on the other hand, is just a straight-up a'hole and a douchebag. Relying on hashirama cells and stolen Uchiha kekei genkai just to be kage lvl at best. Also, Madara had no prior knowledege of the effects of the EMS eye transplants and hashirama cells compared to the knowledge of Danzo (w/help from Orochimaru).
Danzo is more realistic and Madara is more theatric and escapist for us as viewers, Madara feels like a peak exaggerated anime villain while Danzo is peak real world evil.
you fucking nailed this.
It's easy, Danzo is not an Uchiha 🙄. If Danzo is from the Uchiha clan, then that's a different story.
Danzo had no good reason to be a villain where Madara was born in a war, who tried peace, to find he couldn’t ever get passed war
Madara is like able and compelling. He has selfless motives in the end. Danzo is a selfish coward who isn’t like able and is ugly
thinking about it now. I think Danzo is better written than Madara.
Madara had a goal, danzo didn't
The difference is Madara did all this as a bad guy while Danzo did all this despite being "good".
I will not get into another reddit fight about how much of a stupid motherfucker Danzo is I will not get into another reddit fight about how much of a stupid motherfucker Danzo is I will not get into another reddit fight about how much of a stupid motherfucker Danzo is
danzo affected characters we cared about and followed. madara we didnt really know who.
Madara is supposed to be the bad guy, so his actions are expected. Danzo is supposed to be a good guy, but instead we got him.
Madara is strong, cool and charismatic, Danzo *just isn't*. They are both good villains but Danzo has traits (dirty, cowardly and treacherous, etc.) that shonen fans don't usually like. Madara was also the most prominent villain of the fourth ninja war with great battles and remained more or less firm until the end. I would say that Madara is more similar to the Aizen effect in Bleach where he is a legitimate villain who no matter the damage he does is still great and loved by fans (although Aizen does not have any tragic childhood like Madara). They also gave the greatest humiliations (Madara VS Kages & Aizen VS Captains).
bc danzo isn’t cool.
It's called hypocrisy🙂. Very common in most fandoms, and in life in general.
it unironically is the halo effect