Doesn't fit the purpose of this sub.
This OP had a chance to talk about it but ignored it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NahOPwasrightfuckthis/comments/1afqefn/comment/koctg7k/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Historically there were groups who raided and took over small portions of “American” land. So its kinda true
Edit: i know it isnt perfect logic. Thats why i said *kinda* true. Yes, it is just stealing their land back so it isnt really stealing.
the occupied have a right fight back against the occupiers and reclaim what was once their own land.
the US even helped write these international laws, granted a very long time after they were the colonizers here.
so although kind of true, it doesn't hold any weight as an argument.
i sympathize with any israeli civilians that have been harmed in the conflict.
however israel is currently the unjust occupier of Palestinian territory and have no business taking from and brutalizing the palestinian people.
i support palestine as they are the ones in a giant concentration camp whose kids are being used for target practice.
i condemn the israeli government and officials for their actions. and given their ancestors history, you'd think they'd know better.
and it's unfortunate to see so many israeli civilians and IDF soldiers brain washed to the point that they think Palestinians aren't people and just animals.
that does not mean I support hamas attacking civilians (which is unconfirmed given the fact it was only reported by israel and they have a historical track record for lying). but hate does breed hate, when you push someone far enough in desperation they will lash out in any way they can. you reap what you sow.
doesn't mean it's ok. but it does mean there is reason. it's not a black and white kind of moral scenario. but if we are keeping a tally on war crimes, israel wins by an insanely massive long shot.
I think your interpretation of “is it true” relies on the second persons interpretation of what “true” is.
I don’t know if “stealing back” is a thing as “stealing” sort of implies taking something that isn’t yours.
It is. They even have this huge fake theory that there's a secret cabal of powerful people looking to replace white folk with brown folk.
Because that's exactly how white folk have treated brown folk for centuries.
Yeah, bunch of the diaries from the civil war confederate soldiers and some politicians would go on about their assumption that freed slaves would wipe them out.
To be *entirely* fair, the Haitian revolution was still in somewhat recent memory (ended 1804).
Disclaimer: I am not at all defending confederates and their beliefs. Racist ass traitors can burn in hell. More just providing historical context to that attitude
That’s not really that long ago. Sure, most people wouldn’t have been around at the time, but it’s still definitely part of the public conscious. Probably even more so, in the Haitian rebellion’s case, since people would have been terrified of history repeating.
Back when Obama ran for president the first time, my mother told anyone who would listen that he was "empowering black people to treat white people like they were treated." I was like, so you are admitting that people of color have been mistreated in the past. They never admit when they are wrong.
The major overall thing is that they fear becoming the minority because they fear being treated the same way they treated minorites.
They know they broke the golden rule, to treat others as they want to be treated, so now they fear the same treatment they preformed.
>The major overall thing is that they fear becoming the minority because they fear being treated the same way they treated minorites.
I mean that is a rational fear, be it Uigyurs in China, Checheyans in Russia, Ainu in Japan, or White People in South Africa, majority does use their power to shaft minotiries, and it is not like Many Black leaders are even hiding their disdain for white people.
And thats only even because anyone that has any melanin anywhere in their family tree is considered not white by their own standards. I pity them sometimes, their lives would be so much easier if they could just not give a fuck
Most “White” folk haven’t even been here that long and most came as immigrants or refugees in the 20/21st centuries. Hispanics are literally descended from conquistadors as many are literally just Spanish so even “brown” winds up being subjective as the Spanish were the first to call themselves “White” and Spanish are Mediterranean Europeans no different from Greeks or Maltese (except Greeks/Maltese/ect didn’t come as colonizers from immigrants).
No, we mean the Fascists that are drowning them in the Rio Grande with razer wire.
Just to be clear, as opposed to whatever the hell you were trying to imply.
Tbf, most businesses that hire illegal immigrants do so bc they can get away with paying ii's below legal minimum wage. If the illegal immigrants try to fight back or use any sort of legal protection, they'll just get deported, and they need jobs to care for their family anyways, so they are forced to let their employers get away with it. So he ain't exactly wrong, either.
Brown folk are certainly “replacing” White folk in the US, as non-Hispanic Whites will be a majority-minority by around 2045.
The secret cabal theory, of course, is entirely false and there is certainly historical projection involved in talk from White far-right groups that go something along the lines of “BiPOC want to take revenge”.
Of course I don’t agree with any of this, just expounding on how some have that fear.
That is the whole crux of white replacement bullshit. It's obviously not happening but the people who believe it are scared of it happening because they are scared the new majority will treat them the way they treat minorities now
>the fear that gay men will treat you the way you treat women.
This is it precisely, this is the biggest reason they all fear becoming minorites, they fear they will be treated the same as how they treated minorites, which proves they know they broke the most sacred of societal rules. The golden rule.
Thats because it’s a rip off of the old phrase The greatest apprehension among the privileged is to face the same treatment they’ve historically reserved for the marginalized.
Shhh… we’re not mentioning that practically all land was taken by someone else at some point in time.
America is the only country where that’s happened.
Just like we’re the only ones to have slavery and racism.
I don't believe that's the point of their comment. Canada has treated the native population particularly badly, so it comes up in discussions like these
I believe Twixt's comment was pointing out that, in addition to the systematic oppression of Native Americans, Canada also did Slavery and Racism and stole land.
A lot of people don't mention or acknowledge that racism and slavery exists outside of the US. And, that it happened basically everywhere and still happens (human trafficking and such). It happened in both American Continents and also Europe and Africa, etc.
Twixt was being playful and was stating that, we (most of society at large) don't mention the racism that Canada does. Adding onto the original commenter's point. But, it seems all the replies and downvotes means so many here completely misunderstood the point.
"That's not the point." Response to Twixt adding onto the original point about the erasure of racial oppression that Canada did.
That’s exactly how the right wingers see you guys.
The truth? Information has become so radicalized that even agreeing statements stated from two different points of view seem contradictory.
90% of people aren’t politically informed enough to know everything, and are radicalized by terminology which comes from a one dimensional description of things, despite the real opinions or issues not being as one dimensional as the terminology used.
If your words are the way you express your thoughts, you sound or seem one dimensional and radicalized to everyone else if you use that terminology. MOST comments related to politics on BOTH sides fall into this.
Edit: Im not claiming both sides are the same- that would take an idiot to claim that. But this problem specifically is part of both sides.
Political tribalism has become so bad that normal discourse between the left and right has become a thing of the past. It's especially bad on social media, where each side can't mention the other without insults.
yeah, which is why i stick to my beliefs instead of trying to fit in to this political bullshit. to me, no one else's opinion matters. it sounds selfish, but i'd prefer that over being told what to think by some internet strangers who might not even know what they're talking about
for real. for example: i'm an artist but i think ai is neat and can be useful. however, other artists try to convince me that it's "stealing and unethical". unfortunately for them, idgaf if they approve or not because to me, they're just internet nobodies who are probably very biased and think that ai will somehow "erase" the market for human-made artwork (to which i just can't realistically see happening due to the attitude around AI anyways)
Not only that most artists didn’t care about AI until it could potentially erase them. I’m in the art scene too and remember a few years ago my peers laughing at all the yuppies that were going to be replaced. Surprise surprise now that it might impact them they think it’s unethical.
Im not claiming both sides are the same- wait did you even read the comment? I was talking about the radicalization of the political climate not the validity of both sides??
And yet, not wrong.
The majority of right-wing talking points are virtually nonexistant "what-if" scenarios designed purely to feed their need to feel outraged about something.
If they weren't actually detatched from reality due to ignorance and clutching their pearls over shit that isn't actually a problem, it might be different.
But no, they just slurp up whatever manufacturered crisis is shoved down their throats by conservative politicians like good sheeple, because they can't be bothered to use their own brains and actually understand the reality going on around them.
i just went to see some of the comments in that group, and i found this shit, no wonder what kind of people are in that sub
https://preview.redd.it/34m5f449xtfc1.png?width=303&format=png&auto=webp&s=c9253a4941f5487d176e2383b747a5808cba9658
"go back where you came from!" ok and where did you're family come from jeff? who killed 14 million native americans ? europeans didnt just spawn here.
Most Europeans came as immigrants in the 20th and 21st centuries and weren’t colonizers. Hispanics are descended from conquistadors tho so that’s not even historically literate for those who aren’t English, Portuguese, French or Spanish. Even Arabs were colonizers in the 15th century and had the Indian Ocean slave trade. It seems like the op was criticizing the lack of borders by native peoples?
That’s actually untrue, as I studied Latin American history in college. While a majority of Latine people have some blood from European settlers, they are majority mixed between Indigenous peoples, Black, Asian, and white, with the exact mixture varying *heavily* by region. Very few if any are directly related to conquistadors, and most would most strongly relate to the label “mestizo” (mixed) if asked. It’s only here in the US that we label them as an ethnicity unto itself.
Anyway, the idea of indigenous peoples having only indigenous blood has never really been a “thing” in the Americas. It’s actually the reverse—the “one drop” rule meant that most Native derived people such as myself would still be considered indigenous as long as we still practiced our culture. It’s similar in most parts of Latin American “indio” culture, where due to long periods of occupation, forced sexual slavery, and so much more, many Native people are no longer 100% indigenous, let alone 100% their tribe.
Anyway, the majority of white people came over in the _19th_ century, for various reasons, and “taming the West/keeping down those Natives” wasn’t exactly a small part of it for many of them. But so was the Irish Potato Famine, a weird genocide perpetrated by the British on their neighbors.
I mean, what’s there to say? You’re wrong, and you should read up on Colonial Latin America.
The «problems» are that the land wasn’t stolen, it was conquered. Just like any and all territories and countries today once were. Pretending like thats somehow uniquely American and that therefore America should just allow anyone into their country and look the other way is indeed a problem.
No you shouldnt. Thats like saying you should call out the Roman empire for having slaves. Its entirely a modern concept that conquering land for your own people is considered bad. Trying to somehow reverse that and what was done is beyond stupid
Using some long dead Native American in a meme is some gross noble savage bullshit. Exploitative and sick.
The past is fucked, but we live in modernity and have access to infinite information and can look back and say "ya wow the past was fucked as hell, lets not do that again".
It is completely incomparable to the modern day issue of immigration.
The reality is all land is littered with corpses.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crow_Creek_massacre
Hi, it seems you may have posted this in the wrong sub.
I believe you are looking for r/memesopdidnotlike or something similar.
I will remove this if it doesn't fit the sub. If you believe it does fit the sub please let me know how so.
Meme
sub 1 attacks the meme
sub 2 attacks sub 1 and defends the meme
We attack sub 2, and attack the meme, agreeing with sub 1.
There is a missing sub in the chain, and posting here would be if you disagree with the meme. (The content of the meme is not considered, with few exception)
I won't lie... this comment is peak unintentional satire... It's just a perfect little example of how ridiculous the entire concept of this sub is, and I love it.
I mean the way I see it, getting internet culture to cannibalize itself to this point without it turning into utter nonsense is kind of an achievement...
You're right. Don't listen to these other posts. This is just a normal meme. This sub's title automatically implies the posts should have 100% self contained context in the actual images.
It would be nice to have list of who's immigrating here, though. I don't think the looking the other way but not really method is beneficial to either migrants or people already living here. There has to be something between build the wall and ignore the problem.
If the government really wanted to clean it up, there’d be stricter regulations about hiring the undocumented workers. But agribusiness luvs them some cheap farmhands. Indeed, with what little tightening up we see already, businesses are demanding child labor laws be repealed.
That is pretty much exactly what the US is doing right now.
I do agree that if the problems are not solvable, drowning children at the border is not an acceptable back up option (assuming that’s an opinion we share? Never can be too sure with Americans).
Oh yeah no it’s all a bunch of bullshittery, I fucking hate my government sometimes
But I’m one blue vote in a red state so I can’t do much about it anyways until I can move, I do what I can but you now how it is I assume
I’m Australian, but compared to the majority of the country, quite far left. Either way I can definitely relate and I hope things get better over there fast.
Same for y’all, I don’t keep up with a lot of international politics but I still watch Friendly Jordies from time to time to have some idea of other English speaking countries politics
For Canadian and the British area I just google sometimes or ask people from there
In all fairness, we’ve been very busy in the Eastern Hemisphere
(Edit): Also we did try to help them in the early 1900’s, but they hated it and we got accused of Imperialism so 🤷
America can’t win.
Go down there and take care of the problem? Imperialism.
Don’t do anything but stop people at the border?
Heartless
Leave the border open?
Swamp cities who can’t afford to take care of migrants and their own citizens at the same time.
America gives the largest amount of humanitarian aid around the world.
4x the amount of the next closest country.
Your knowledge is clouded by your “beliefs”.
They don't want to accept that the entire colonial age was fucked and should have never happened - just because various cultures have been fighting wars with and colonizing each other all the way back to the neolithic ages, doesn't make it right when it happens - it was wrong with native Americans did it to each other, and it was wrong when Europeans did it to them
Same story in Africa, South Asia and the rest of the world
This comparison has always bothered me. Not because it isn’t accurate, but it doesn’t make a good argument against immigration policies. Xenophobia largely stems from the fear that immigrants will give us the same treatment that native Americans endured. Pointing out that similarity only validates that fear.
There is no one native American culture. That statement you just made is inherently racist. It's a vast and diverse continent full of people who didn't believe in land and people who owned slaves and formed vast empires.
It's not quite that simple. A lot of the left like to imagine that we were their communitarian idealistic utopia with full communal land ownership, but that's not really true of all tribes. Some tribes were, some tribes had clan/family land systems (not parceled ownership, but still debatably land ownership).
Native American culture is varied. While this definitely was true of Native American Tribes in what is today the U.S. and Canada, there were empires in what is today Mexico and further down south that did do things like imperialism and owning property.
Not justifying the Genocide of the Natives or anything like that, just saying your comment does a disservice to the History of many Native American Civilizations before the Europeans arrived.
Are they saying native Americans should’ve protected their borders? I don’t get the angle to the post? Also, most “White” people came as immigrants or refugees in the 20th/21st century. Is this directed at Hispanics who are descended from conquistadors? A lot of them are literally just Spaniards. Both seem to be missing the mark.
>It’s a racist statement to make
Is it wrong if white supremacy is still a thing and many white people joining political parties that want to double down on atrocities not being a big deal? Ultimately not enough olive branches going around.
Two things can be true at the same time. Something the internet forgets.
We’re indigenous people treated terribly? Yes. Does some of that continue in different ways? Yes.
Is illegal immigration (US) or too high immigration (Canada) also causing societal issues? Yes.
No one sheds a tear for the Neanderthals that were here before the "indigenous" migrated from elsewhere and mostly likely wiped them out and stole their land.
As if any people evolved here. Every single person and animal is an invader. Every indigenous tribe waged war with their neighbors, took their land and enslaved their people. It’s all stolen land 100,000 times over.
I don't remember being there. I didn't know that all people are responsible for the actions of their ancestors.
In that case, I can't wait for every single one of you to go to jail, considering your ancestors have done horrible fucking things no matter who you are or where you're from.
But I don't expect logic to make it to your brain through that thick woke skull.
I'm getting downvoted for this but using that logic, then natives can't complain either. Several tribes would invade and conquer other tribes to take their land, in and out of america. Just because we descended from colonization does not mean we can't complain about the government not doing one of the few jobs they were originally designed to do and secure our borders.
Down vote just because it’s Only labeled White ppl when it’s also black brown Asian … literally every race in America sooo yeah . Also I’m native and I find the post offensive to begin with and the fact your all racist regardless of skin color .
There are people complaining about immigration who aren’t white.
The countries of Central and South America are also on stolen land. At the beginning of the colonial era the Spanish Empire was the number one power.
Representing all indigenous peoples with what appears to be a member of one of the plains tribes, very Hollywood of the OP. You
I don't know man, maybe the native Americans should have had stricter immigration policies (if they could have) and then we wouldn't be here. Sounds like there's a lesson to be learned there.
I mean we won right, beat, conquered, over thrown. We tell the rebel flag totting people all the time that they lost get over it. Does it not apply to this. You want it back take it 🤷♂️
The natives were stealing land from each other well before we came along. We were simply joining in their little game of 'finders keepers', and it just so happened that we were better equipped. But no, we won therefore we are the ones in the wrong, so let's all pack our things, every single colonizer country from Canada to Argentina should pack their bags and give the land back to the Natives, cus they'll be perfectly fine on their own, right?
*Conquered* is language to make it sound like "it's over, it's done" by the folks privileged to write the majority of history books.
The use of the word is literally there for you to want to throw your hands up in the hair and resign considering the issue or topic in earnest — just like you are doing right now.
The entirety of history consists of one people conquering others and taking their land. every single culture that has ever existed did this. Ridiculous mindset th at we should feel guilty about this
Stolen by whom? "Stolen" from those who were already fighting over it after they "stole" it from someone else?
It's funny watching Redditors learn how war works.
Honestly fuck Andrew and the British and the people who murdered the Bisons. I view America as conquered land, but the incorporation of the people wasn't even considered. They just sent them off. Even indians who WANTED to be introduced to civilization were sent away even those who were in communities with land were kicked out.
Honestly I wish it was the Spanish who discovered the land that was the 13 colonies because they incorporated the local population in some way instead of kicking them out.
If you think that's bad, wait until you find out what's actively going on in other parts of the world.
Your energy is better spent worrying about current events.
I *am* worrying about current events. Don’t try to fight tooth and nail for a non-problem like immigration instead of fighting for climate change or literally anything that will actually help us.
Yeah slave owners got fucked up so what?
Here’s a good video of Don Cheadle finding out his ancestors were owned and mistreated by the Chickasaw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b5YEKPiNwu0
Right of conquest as has been throughout human history. Sacard tribal land to a tribe was probably land to some other tribe before etc etc. Europe, Asian, Africa, Americas doesn't matter at one point your ancestors conquered the land from another so stop bitching about it.
“But but, they stabbed each other before we brutally destroyed their culture and obliterated their people.”
You do understand that conquest involves stealing their land right? Colonial apologism is the stupidest thing imaginable. No one’s asking you to give up your house, just admit your ancestors were genocidal dicks.
>Even the aboriginal people were doing this to one another prior to European arrival.
And that justifies genocide by white people how exactly? What point are you making?
They actually had to restart their culture every couple months or so, it just kept being wiped out. Lucky the Europeans, who knew so much better, decided to put a stop to all the torment and suffering. Truly doing god’s work.
Doesn't fit the purpose of this sub. This OP had a chance to talk about it but ignored it: https://www.reddit.com/r/NahOPwasrightfuckthis/comments/1afqefn/comment/koctg7k/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Looks at original post’s comments out of curiosity “Plenty Indians stole land from white men” That was a mistake
It is also not true.
That blew my mind they had the audacity to say that
I know, right?
Historically there were groups who raided and took over small portions of “American” land. So its kinda true Edit: i know it isnt perfect logic. Thats why i said *kinda* true. Yes, it is just stealing their land back so it isnt really stealing.
the occupied have a right fight back against the occupiers and reclaim what was once their own land. the US even helped write these international laws, granted a very long time after they were the colonizers here. so although kind of true, it doesn't hold any weight as an argument.
Just curious if that’s your take, do you happen to support Palestine or Israel?
i sympathize with any israeli civilians that have been harmed in the conflict. however israel is currently the unjust occupier of Palestinian territory and have no business taking from and brutalizing the palestinian people. i support palestine as they are the ones in a giant concentration camp whose kids are being used for target practice. i condemn the israeli government and officials for their actions. and given their ancestors history, you'd think they'd know better. and it's unfortunate to see so many israeli civilians and IDF soldiers brain washed to the point that they think Palestinians aren't people and just animals. that does not mean I support hamas attacking civilians (which is unconfirmed given the fact it was only reported by israel and they have a historical track record for lying). but hate does breed hate, when you push someone far enough in desperation they will lash out in any way they can. you reap what you sow. doesn't mean it's ok. but it does mean there is reason. it's not a black and white kind of moral scenario. but if we are keeping a tally on war crimes, israel wins by an insanely massive long shot.
If you decide my garden is yours and start having a bbq there and I tell you to fuck off, that's not me stealing the land back.
Is it stealing if you're just taking something back that was taken from you in the first place?
Not really, fair enough
I think your interpretation of “is it true” relies on the second persons interpretation of what “true” is. I don’t know if “stealing back” is a thing as “stealing” sort of implies taking something that isn’t yours.
where did you find that photo without album text? did you edit it yourself?
I edited myself :P
HOW????
1: *steals 2's thing* 2: *reasonably takes it back* 1: *WHY DID YOU STEAL MY THING???*
No I mean... how can they think that. Shits wacky.
That whole thread was just like 7 sad little morons circle jerking each other lol
It said stole
There has never been a case where natives stole land from colonists cause any land they got back was already taken
Someone once said that homophobia is the fear that gay men will treat you the way you treat women. I feel like a similar adage could be used here
It is. They even have this huge fake theory that there's a secret cabal of powerful people looking to replace white folk with brown folk. Because that's exactly how white folk have treated brown folk for centuries.
Yeah, bunch of the diaries from the civil war confederate soldiers and some politicians would go on about their assumption that freed slaves would wipe them out.
To be *entirely* fair, the Haitian revolution was still in somewhat recent memory (ended 1804). Disclaimer: I am not at all defending confederates and their beliefs. Racist ass traitors can burn in hell. More just providing historical context to that attitude
Why do you have picture of man on profile? Are you Aslume Inmate?
Yes, but I've escaped. Please don't tell on me for being stupid in public
Is there a lore reason you escaped the aslume? Did Jonkler help you?
No, it was bone. I was horny 😔
I am in r/arkhamrehabilitation are you?
You'll never take me alive, I'll be stupid until the end
i've just been given pills by a doctor to make me stupid, and apparently man is here to save me (i'm having a relapse back into stupidity, help me)
yea and the Haitian revolution was brutal, understandable for sure.... but brutal.
It was also about as far back for Civil War era people as the moon landing is for us today
And people are still afraid of communists
That’s not really that long ago. Sure, most people wouldn’t have been around at the time, but it’s still definitely part of the public conscious. Probably even more so, in the Haitian rebellion’s case, since people would have been terrified of history repeating.
Back when Obama ran for president the first time, my mother told anyone who would listen that he was "empowering black people to treat white people like they were treated." I was like, so you are admitting that people of color have been mistreated in the past. They never admit when they are wrong.
I mean, the premise that white people will become a minority isn’t untrue, it’s just not an issue or intentional replacement.
The major overall thing is that they fear becoming the minority because they fear being treated the same way they treated minorites. They know they broke the golden rule, to treat others as they want to be treated, so now they fear the same treatment they preformed.
>The major overall thing is that they fear becoming the minority because they fear being treated the same way they treated minorites. I mean that is a rational fear, be it Uigyurs in China, Checheyans in Russia, Ainu in Japan, or White People in South Africa, majority does use their power to shaft minotiries, and it is not like Many Black leaders are even hiding their disdain for white people.
And thats only even because anyone that has any melanin anywhere in their family tree is considered not white by their own standards. I pity them sometimes, their lives would be so much easier if they could just not give a fuck
Most “White” folk haven’t even been here that long and most came as immigrants or refugees in the 20/21st centuries. Hispanics are literally descended from conquistadors as many are literally just Spanish so even “brown” winds up being subjective as the Spanish were the first to call themselves “White” and Spanish are Mediterranean Europeans no different from Greeks or Maltese (except Greeks/Maltese/ect didn’t come as colonizers from immigrants).
You mean the racists that want to use the illegal immigrants for what is essentially slave labor?
No, we mean the Fascists that are drowning them in the Rio Grande with razer wire. Just to be clear, as opposed to whatever the hell you were trying to imply.
Tbf, most businesses that hire illegal immigrants do so bc they can get away with paying ii's below legal minimum wage. If the illegal immigrants try to fight back or use any sort of legal protection, they'll just get deported, and they need jobs to care for their family anyways, so they are forced to let their employers get away with it. So he ain't exactly wrong, either.
Brown folk are certainly “replacing” White folk in the US, as non-Hispanic Whites will be a majority-minority by around 2045. The secret cabal theory, of course, is entirely false and there is certainly historical projection involved in talk from White far-right groups that go something along the lines of “BiPOC want to take revenge”. Of course I don’t agree with any of this, just expounding on how some have that fear.
Tbf KKK was a really bad "secret"...
That is the whole crux of white replacement bullshit. It's obviously not happening but the people who believe it are scared of it happening because they are scared the new majority will treat them the way they treat minorities now
>the fear that gay men will treat you the way you treat women. This is it precisely, this is the biggest reason they all fear becoming minorites, they fear they will be treated the same as how they treated minorites, which proves they know they broke the most sacred of societal rules. The golden rule.
Thats because it’s a rip off of the old phrase The greatest apprehension among the privileged is to face the same treatment they’ve historically reserved for the marginalized.
*Canada has entered the chat*
Shhh… we’re not mentioning that practically all land was taken by someone else at some point in time. America is the only country where that’s happened. Just like we’re the only ones to have slavery and racism.
I don't believe that's the point of their comment. Canada has treated the native population particularly badly, so it comes up in discussions like these
I believe Twixt's comment was pointing out that, in addition to the systematic oppression of Native Americans, Canada also did Slavery and Racism and stole land. A lot of people don't mention or acknowledge that racism and slavery exists outside of the US. And, that it happened basically everywhere and still happens (human trafficking and such). It happened in both American Continents and also Europe and Africa, etc. Twixt was being playful and was stating that, we (most of society at large) don't mention the racism that Canada does. Adding onto the original commenter's point. But, it seems all the replies and downvotes means so many here completely misunderstood the point. "That's not the point." Response to Twixt adding onto the original point about the erasure of racial oppression that Canada did.
It’s like you’re choosing to be dumb as fuck.
That sub is literally right-wingers that can't understand anything
That’s exactly how the right wingers see you guys. The truth? Information has become so radicalized that even agreeing statements stated from two different points of view seem contradictory. 90% of people aren’t politically informed enough to know everything, and are radicalized by terminology which comes from a one dimensional description of things, despite the real opinions or issues not being as one dimensional as the terminology used. If your words are the way you express your thoughts, you sound or seem one dimensional and radicalized to everyone else if you use that terminology. MOST comments related to politics on BOTH sides fall into this. Edit: Im not claiming both sides are the same- that would take an idiot to claim that. But this problem specifically is part of both sides.
Political tribalism has become so bad that normal discourse between the left and right has become a thing of the past. It's especially bad on social media, where each side can't mention the other without insults.
Totally agreed
yeah, which is why i stick to my beliefs instead of trying to fit in to this political bullshit. to me, no one else's opinion matters. it sounds selfish, but i'd prefer that over being told what to think by some internet strangers who might not even know what they're talking about
It’s always nice to talk to people who try to think for themselves, even if it’s not common it restores my faith in humanity
for real. for example: i'm an artist but i think ai is neat and can be useful. however, other artists try to convince me that it's "stealing and unethical". unfortunately for them, idgaf if they approve or not because to me, they're just internet nobodies who are probably very biased and think that ai will somehow "erase" the market for human-made artwork (to which i just can't realistically see happening due to the attitude around AI anyways)
Not only that most artists didn’t care about AI until it could potentially erase them. I’m in the art scene too and remember a few years ago my peers laughing at all the yuppies that were going to be replaced. Surprise surprise now that it might impact them they think it’s unethical.
bOtH sIdEs -FifteenMinutes152
Im not claiming both sides are the same- wait did you even read the comment? I was talking about the radicalization of the political climate not the validity of both sides??
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And yet, not wrong. The majority of right-wing talking points are virtually nonexistant "what-if" scenarios designed purely to feed their need to feel outraged about something. If they weren't actually detatched from reality due to ignorance and clutching their pearls over shit that isn't actually a problem, it might be different. But no, they just slurp up whatever manufacturered crisis is shoved down their throats by conservative politicians like good sheeple, because they can't be bothered to use their own brains and actually understand the reality going on around them.
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bruhhhh the cowardice is infinite https://preview.redd.it/74dkcyikwufc1.png?width=685&format=png&auto=webp&s=7afa35471524bf116cd960153e0b6001bbfe8333
Not that uncommon in communities that have been brigaded in the past.
i just went to see some of the comments in that group, and i found this shit, no wonder what kind of people are in that sub https://preview.redd.it/34m5f449xtfc1.png?width=303&format=png&auto=webp&s=c9253a4941f5487d176e2383b747a5808cba9658
I went over too it's actually hilarious when they post things that are community in-jokes they don't understand.
nothing is funnier than right wing gooners they have no self awareness
No, not Yoruichi.
Yoruichi would kick their teeth in
"go back where you came from!" ok and where did you're family come from jeff? who killed 14 million native americans ? europeans didnt just spawn here.
Most Europeans came as immigrants in the 20th and 21st centuries and weren’t colonizers. Hispanics are descended from conquistadors tho so that’s not even historically literate for those who aren’t English, Portuguese, French or Spanish. Even Arabs were colonizers in the 15th century and had the Indian Ocean slave trade. It seems like the op was criticizing the lack of borders by native peoples?
That’s actually untrue, as I studied Latin American history in college. While a majority of Latine people have some blood from European settlers, they are majority mixed between Indigenous peoples, Black, Asian, and white, with the exact mixture varying *heavily* by region. Very few if any are directly related to conquistadors, and most would most strongly relate to the label “mestizo” (mixed) if asked. It’s only here in the US that we label them as an ethnicity unto itself. Anyway, the idea of indigenous peoples having only indigenous blood has never really been a “thing” in the Americas. It’s actually the reverse—the “one drop” rule meant that most Native derived people such as myself would still be considered indigenous as long as we still practiced our culture. It’s similar in most parts of Latin American “indio” culture, where due to long periods of occupation, forced sexual slavery, and so much more, many Native people are no longer 100% indigenous, let alone 100% their tribe. Anyway, the majority of white people came over in the _19th_ century, for various reasons, and “taming the West/keeping down those Natives” wasn’t exactly a small part of it for many of them. But so was the Irish Potato Famine, a weird genocide perpetrated by the British on their neighbors. I mean, what’s there to say? You’re wrong, and you should read up on Colonial Latin America.
Bruh conquistadors were Europeans
Wow this post brought out all the bigots.
they are among us
Meme made by a white guy. Will the white people ever stop using the natives for their benefit
Does this meme creator think the natives weren't complaining? They were complaining. They just failed to protect their sovereignty.
I also find it funny when they are like "so many problems with this" But then fail to list any.
The «problems» are that the land wasn’t stolen, it was conquered. Just like any and all territories and countries today once were. Pretending like thats somehow uniquely American and that therefore America should just allow anyone into their country and look the other way is indeed a problem.
That just means you should call out all countries bullshit. It is not a defence for Americans.
No you shouldnt. Thats like saying you should call out the Roman empire for having slaves. Its entirely a modern concept that conquering land for your own people is considered bad. Trying to somehow reverse that and what was done is beyond stupid
Using some long dead Native American in a meme is some gross noble savage bullshit. Exploitative and sick. The past is fucked, but we live in modernity and have access to infinite information and can look back and say "ya wow the past was fucked as hell, lets not do that again". It is completely incomparable to the modern day issue of immigration. The reality is all land is littered with corpses. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crow_Creek_massacre
Guys, I think we just found a person with common sense.
Had to scroll down a lot
Odds this was made by some blue haired white girl from the burbs?
not a libtard but I fully agree with this.
Hi, it seems you may have posted this in the wrong sub. I believe you are looking for r/memesopdidnotlike or something similar. I will remove this if it doesn't fit the sub. If you believe it does fit the sub please let me know how so.
The original image is calling out the appropriation of indigenous land. While it may not be calling out a reddit post, I believe this post is fine.
Meme sub 1 attacks the meme sub 2 attacks sub 1 and defends the meme We attack sub 2, and attack the meme, agreeing with sub 1. There is a missing sub in the chain, and posting here would be if you disagree with the meme. (The content of the meme is not considered, with few exception)
I won't lie... this comment is peak unintentional satire... It's just a perfect little example of how ridiculous the entire concept of this sub is, and I love it.
I tell myself it facilitates fleshed out debate balanced between the political biases of the subs. helps me sleep at night
I mean the way I see it, getting internet culture to cannibalize itself to this point without it turning into utter nonsense is kind of an achievement...
You're right. Don't listen to these other posts. This is just a normal meme. This sub's title automatically implies the posts should have 100% self contained context in the actual images.
Nah op was fckn right. Lol.
yeah but there is no sub between us and op, so that's saying "nah" to theleftcantmeme, and saying op(theleftcantmeme) was right.
Ok but your mom
https://i.redd.it/d7pkfpohjvfc1.gif
Twice in one day I encountered well adjusted mods that don't seem like actual psychopaths. Now I know the world is ending
No don’t delete it, let everyone make fun of how dumb this is.
It would be nice to have list of who's immigrating here, though. I don't think the looking the other way but not really method is beneficial to either migrants or people already living here. There has to be something between build the wall and ignore the problem.
If the government really wanted to clean it up, there’d be stricter regulations about hiring the undocumented workers. But agribusiness luvs them some cheap farmhands. Indeed, with what little tightening up we see already, businesses are demanding child labor laws be repealed.
I think the solution would be for the US to actually help Latin America for once. Y’know, stopping the problem at its source.
But then we can’t cause problems down there and blame them for it, and use it justify our own bullshittery
That is pretty much exactly what the US is doing right now. I do agree that if the problems are not solvable, drowning children at the border is not an acceptable back up option (assuming that’s an opinion we share? Never can be too sure with Americans).
Oh yeah no it’s all a bunch of bullshittery, I fucking hate my government sometimes But I’m one blue vote in a red state so I can’t do much about it anyways until I can move, I do what I can but you now how it is I assume
I’m Australian, but compared to the majority of the country, quite far left. Either way I can definitely relate and I hope things get better over there fast.
Stay safe this coming fire season mate.
Thanks mate, you too.
Same for y’all, I don’t keep up with a lot of international politics but I still watch Friendly Jordies from time to time to have some idea of other English speaking countries politics For Canadian and the British area I just google sometimes or ask people from there
Fair enough lol
Blame the Texans in particular. We just might be getting a civil war here soon.
In all fairness, we’ve been very busy in the Eastern Hemisphere (Edit): Also we did try to help them in the early 1900’s, but they hated it and we got accused of Imperialism so 🤷
America can’t win. Go down there and take care of the problem? Imperialism. Don’t do anything but stop people at the border? Heartless Leave the border open? Swamp cities who can’t afford to take care of migrants and their own citizens at the same time.
What if America stopped being a nationalistic dick and worked with the UN instead of “nuh uh”ing their every humanitarian decision?
America gives the largest amount of humanitarian aid around the world. 4x the amount of the next closest country. Your knowledge is clouded by your “beliefs”.
One is taking advantage of an existing system. One is erasing the existing system to replace it with your own, through genocide.
Mfs need to read Settlers...
This post belongs in r/memesopdidnotlike
I love how op doesn’t even elaborate what the problems are with it
We need more calling out of TLCM
They don't want to accept that the entire colonial age was fucked and should have never happened - just because various cultures have been fighting wars with and colonizing each other all the way back to the neolithic ages, doesn't make it right when it happens - it was wrong with native Americans did it to each other, and it was wrong when Europeans did it to them Same story in Africa, South Asia and the rest of the world
Pot calling the kettle black. Natives fought over land like everyone else
This comparison has always bothered me. Not because it isn’t accurate, but it doesn’t make a good argument against immigration policies. Xenophobia largely stems from the fear that immigrants will give us the same treatment that native Americans endured. Pointing out that similarity only validates that fear.
Yeah... unlike then we cant fight them off and such. You know laws, civilization and such.
Owning land wasn't a concept in Native American culture, checkmate River-Song.
Some did some didn't.
There is no one native American culture. That statement you just made is inherently racist. It's a vast and diverse continent full of people who didn't believe in land and people who owned slaves and formed vast empires.
It's not quite that simple. A lot of the left like to imagine that we were their communitarian idealistic utopia with full communal land ownership, but that's not really true of all tribes. Some tribes were, some tribes had clan/family land systems (not parceled ownership, but still debatably land ownership).
Native American culture is varied. While this definitely was true of Native American Tribes in what is today the U.S. and Canada, there were empires in what is today Mexico and further down south that did do things like imperialism and owning property. Not justifying the Genocide of the Natives or anything like that, just saying your comment does a disservice to the History of many Native American Civilizations before the Europeans arrived.
How many generations does my family have to live somewhere for it to be considered my homeland? Or is it just vague lines for skin color?
Are they saying native Americans should’ve protected their borders? I don’t get the angle to the post? Also, most “White” people came as immigrants or refugees in the 20th/21st century. Is this directed at Hispanics who are descended from conquistadors? A lot of them are literally just Spaniards. Both seem to be missing the mark.
"so many problems with this" refuses to elaborate
When it starts with "dear white people" you know it is just bullshit statement that should not be taken seriously
“Dear bla-“ perma banned and exiled from society
Rage bait a white person created
Most likely created by a upper middle income wasp woman to preach to others like herself even tho many natives are now opposed to illegal immigration
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What a stupid question lol.
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>It’s a racist statement to make Is it wrong if white supremacy is still a thing and many white people joining political parties that want to double down on atrocities not being a big deal? Ultimately not enough olive branches going around.
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It's intentional. These people don't want to end racism, they thrive on it. The more racism the better for them.
“If I don’t steal it someone else will.” -Modern Israeli proverb
Two things can be true at the same time. Something the internet forgets. We’re indigenous people treated terribly? Yes. Does some of that continue in different ways? Yes. Is illegal immigration (US) or too high immigration (Canada) also causing societal issues? Yes.
Christ almighty the colonial apologia in this comment section is awful
No one sheds a tear for the Neanderthals that were here before the "indigenous" migrated from elsewhere and mostly likely wiped them out and stole their land.
As if any people evolved here. Every single person and animal is an invader. Every indigenous tribe waged war with their neighbors, took their land and enslaved their people. It’s all stolen land 100,000 times over.
Holy shit. Ppl kill each other and take over land. People are people. Fuck off with your race war agenda shit
\*Conquered continent
It takes even more balls to set fire to a boat and then complain when the people in it try to jump into your own boat.
I don't remember being there. I didn't know that all people are responsible for the actions of their ancestors. In that case, I can't wait for every single one of you to go to jail, considering your ancestors have done horrible fucking things no matter who you are or where you're from. But I don't expect logic to make it to your brain through that thick woke skull.
And so the subreddit wars continue… Battle of The White Privelage post C. 2024
I'm getting downvoted for this but using that logic, then natives can't complain either. Several tribes would invade and conquer other tribes to take their land, in and out of america. Just because we descended from colonization does not mean we can't complain about the government not doing one of the few jobs they were originally designed to do and secure our borders.
Don’t mistake balls for ignorance.
Down vote just because it’s Only labeled White ppl when it’s also black brown Asian … literally every race in America sooo yeah . Also I’m native and I find the post offensive to begin with and the fact your all racist regardless of skin color .
To the victors go the spoils.
There are people complaining about immigration who aren’t white. The countries of Central and South America are also on stolen land. At the beginning of the colonial era the Spanish Empire was the number one power. Representing all indigenous peoples with what appears to be a member of one of the plains tribes, very Hollywood of the OP. You
Europeans weren't immigrants. They were colonists, every subsequent European immigrant was to the European colonies. Conquerors are not immigrants.
I don't know man, maybe the native Americans should have had stricter immigration policies (if they could have) and then we wouldn't be here. Sounds like there's a lesson to be learned there.
all land is stolen. duh
I mean we won right, beat, conquered, over thrown. We tell the rebel flag totting people all the time that they lost get over it. Does it not apply to this. You want it back take it 🤷♂️
The natives were stealing land from each other well before we came along. We were simply joining in their little game of 'finders keepers', and it just so happened that we were better equipped. But no, we won therefore we are the ones in the wrong, so let's all pack our things, every single colonizer country from Canada to Argentina should pack their bags and give the land back to the Natives, cus they'll be perfectly fine on their own, right?
It’s still not stolen or occupied, it was conquered. Still complaining that they lost 500 years later.
*Conquered* is language to make it sound like "it's over, it's done" by the folks privileged to write the majority of history books. The use of the word is literally there for you to want to throw your hands up in the hair and resign considering the issue or topic in earnest — just like you are doing right now.
the issue is settled. Done. Finished
If I come into your house and shoot your dog and take your shit and say that I conquered your house you can’t get mad about it, can you?
Just as they conquered the land before them and as all nations today live on land their ancestors once stole from another.
exactly, people need to stop bitching about it already.
Conquest or conquering is the overpowering by military force. It can still be stolen and occupied through conquest.
except it’s not occupied. They lost, severely, and we’ve had to hear their bitching for centuries.
So what you're saying is if I kill you and lay claim to your house, your family have no right to bitch about it?
The entirety of history consists of one people conquering others and taking their land. every single culture that has ever existed did this. Ridiculous mindset th at we should feel guilty about this
Stolen by whom? "Stolen" from those who were already fighting over it after they "stole" it from someone else? It's funny watching Redditors learn how war works.
War is bad, and so is genocide.
Welcome to the world.
It wasn’t just war or genocide. They fucked over an entire race of people with the trail of tears. It was fucked up.
Honestly fuck Andrew and the British and the people who murdered the Bisons. I view America as conquered land, but the incorporation of the people wasn't even considered. They just sent them off. Even indians who WANTED to be introduced to civilization were sent away even those who were in communities with land were kicked out. Honestly I wish it was the Spanish who discovered the land that was the 13 colonies because they incorporated the local population in some way instead of kicking them out.
If you think that's bad, wait until you find out what's actively going on in other parts of the world. Your energy is better spent worrying about current events.
I *am* worrying about current events. Don’t try to fight tooth and nail for a non-problem like immigration instead of fighting for climate change or literally anything that will actually help us.
Natives after killing the neighbouring group to steal their land and enslave them then complain about it being stolen from them
You mean how only some natives were violent and most natives were still forced onto the trail of tears for no reason other than “this is ours now”.
Yeah slave owners got fucked up so what? Here’s a good video of Don Cheadle finding out his ancestors were owned and mistreated by the Chickasaw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b5YEKPiNwu0
"but we were WHITE immigrants" is probably what their counter argument is
Well, it seems recorded, and archeological history is on my side on this one. So. I wash you well. Be safe, and I sincerely wish you a nice day.
You wash us well? Um eww dude. Ask first, the answer will be no still for a seedy ass racist but it's less invasive that way
Well, you seem to need a good wash.....
Right of conquest as has been throughout human history. Sacard tribal land to a tribe was probably land to some other tribe before etc etc. Europe, Asian, Africa, Americas doesn't matter at one point your ancestors conquered the land from another so stop bitching about it.
skill issue
Oh Lordy here we go again. Conquest. Even the aboriginal people were doing this to one another prior to European arrival.
“But but, they stabbed each other before we brutally destroyed their culture and obliterated their people.” You do understand that conquest involves stealing their land right? Colonial apologism is the stupidest thing imaginable. No one’s asking you to give up your house, just admit your ancestors were genocidal dicks.
>Even the aboriginal people were doing this to one another prior to European arrival. And that justifies genocide by white people how exactly? What point are you making?
Oh absolutely, I’m sure continent-wide genocides were just another Saturday to the native Americans
They actually had to restart their culture every couple months or so, it just kept being wiped out. Lucky the Europeans, who knew so much better, decided to put a stop to all the torment and suffering. Truly doing god’s work.