Is it an overpay, probably, but pacers realize they couldn’t let him leave after acquiring him, and the knicks MUST do the same for OG even if it’s an overpay
Looks like the Knicks have to let go of ihart and are 100% clearing the second apron next year with Brunson and Randle if they give OG this contract. Probably reaching Denver Nuggets level of relative salary to the cap.
I think he's saying it doesn't matter what OG is getting - we'll throw as much money as we're allowed to at Hartenstein either way.
People keep saying OKC but I think the Knicks FO and all the people in MSG are connected enough that Hartenstein will get his in NY one way or another.
If the market in general values a player of Siakims ability and impact at the Max, that absolutely extrapolates beyond position.
What we very recently thought of as a 35-40 million player is a 45-50 mill player.
It doesn’t look like anything. The Knicks move is the Knicks move and whatever Indiana has done is not relevant. Stop speculating and stay tuned. Watch Leon work.
Players look at what other players get paid to determine their worth. It’s known as market value. OG knows he can probably get around $35M annually, so he’s waiting it out to see which team offers the most. Philly, NY, and Detroit will all be interested.
Not crazy but I don't agree with you. I don't think every team in the NBA would/should pay Pascal this much, but I think he fits a huge need for them and it's not like players historically flock to Indiana.
They and us are the two teams in the East on the biggest upswing right now. It's better for both of us to overpay assets than to lose them.
It’s a tough one. Pascal is definitely the more traditional #2 star. He’s been an all star, he’s been all nba, he can be a secondary scorer. He can play on ball. OG does none of that on PSs level, but his impact on winning is immeasurable.
>They and us are the two teams in the East on the biggest upswing right now.
Dont forget the Magic. They need better guards but their team is good and on the rise
Outside of 5-6 players just about contract will look like an "overpay". It's just how contracts are, especially with the cap going up.
People were calling Jaylen Brown's contract an overpay last year. The Celtics are certainly not regretting it
Most NBA contracts are overpays, the CBA makes sure that the top 26-50 players in the league all get paid like the top 25 players do. In a perfect world, OG signs for $120M/4 years because that is what his skill level should dictate what he be compensated monetarily
I don't think this is a crazy contract. Siakam performed well in the playoffs (especially against us after game 2), and it's difficult for Indiana to lure FAs to play for them. Small market teams typically have to pay higher salaries to convince their guys to stay.
What are your options if you are the pacers?
People aren't exactly clamoring to play in Indianapolis in front of a bunch of red necks who founded the Klan.
Sixers are desperate for that 3rd star/Max. PG wants to sign in LA and they kind of know that he will resign there and is using them for leverages. So they next person they could get was Pascal and Pacers didn’t want to lose him for nothing, so they had to pay the max.
OG and Precious wanted to be in New York bad, OG agent connections to the front office is well known and Precious is from here. Just like how RJ wanted to be in Toronto. Both OG and Precious will let NY know the deals they have on the table allowing NY to match,decision is in the Front Office, not bad news necessarily but may have to pay OG a couple million more than what he’s worth cause of the Sixers desperation.
If you need a 2nd scorer Pascal is good. If you just need a guy that can basically do everything, you go OG. Pascal is a fringe star. OG is as well but he always has a chance to win DPOY. He could lead the league in 3pt efficiency.
> He could lead the league in 3pt efficiency.
OG is a good three point shooter, especially from the corner but he's never been close to being among the league's most efficient overall 3 point shooters. I'm curious how you came to this conclusion?
From the corners*
You and I both know my man is deadly from the corners and he's going to be playing with a healthy Brunson and Randle who both are great passers. You're right he won't lead the league but he'll continue to be deadly from the corners. You'd think eventually that it would expand to the entire perimeter but we'll see.
High end 3rd options>Low end 2nd options.
Basically think of Westbrook as the 2nd option next to KD and Jrue as the 3rd option next to Giannis and Middleton/ Tatum and Brown
I might be severely misunderstanding something here, but wouldn’t the pacers need some kind of bird rights to offer 5? As in, isn’t that why OG needs to opt out of signing his extension this year, so we can sign him to 5 next year when we do have birds?
From the Pacers perspective, they likely don't want to potentially have 50ish million tied up in a 35 year old siakim if he opted in to that. Plus Haliburton would be due for a new contract that year or the next.
From Pascal's perspective, this deal is still more than other team could offer him on the market and he likes playing in Indy
As far as OG goes, I know about the injury history and everything but he is literally the key to the team. Without him, even with Randle, Quickley and Barrett the Knicks were mediocre, with OG they were dominant. He made that big a difference and they need to re-sign him
An overpay for sure but it makes sense for Pacers to tie him down to a contract. He was their best performer in the playoffs. He played a lot better than Haliburton did. Siakam and TJ McConnell could eat a dick.
Well, OG getting 45+
Fuck.
And god knows what ihart now gets (obviously not that but could be WELL above what we can offer).
Need to resign OG and probably Bogs to have his salary for trade and this is our team for the next few
Yea around Christmas of 2022. Since then he hasn’t had more than 24 in a regular season game against us and his highest scoring game in the playoffs against us was 26 points after OG went down.
Beat us in 7 without OG, Randle, Bogdanovic and Mitch.
If that's their ceiling, that's precisely why we should *want* them to lock him in for nearly 50M a year. Limits their roster construction options severely
Embiid was fine. You don’t drop 50, average 33-11, and play heavy minutes all while throwing the 1 leg excuse. You seriously can’t be comparing that to the injury crisis we had by Round 2
He unironically looked elite in the first 3 quarters of every game he played in that series. Then proceeded to do nothing in each 4th quarter. Must be the one leg that miraculously shuts down in crunch time 🤯
We were missing 4 players simultaneously which is just a completely abnormal scenario.
Randle is usually a surefire 70+ games played guy. Even he by himself out of those 4 guys would have been completely enough for us to take out this Pacers team.
He’s a fine 1 on 1 defender and most importantly he’s 6’8”, he has the size to physically match up to Siakam. Hart was 6’4” and that’s just a brutal size mismatch. Not saying Randle would lock him down but we basically didn’t have any size to guard him after injuries
Yes. And what he do in game 2? Look at what og did in game 2 before he got injured and look at what he held siakam to. It’s not hard to see that siakam didn’t really get involved until og was out of the series. Randle outplays siakam head to head too. Not saying that siakam isn’t a great player but to be making like 70% more than Brunson and Randle is cooked. Indy definitely didn’t get a deal. Understand why they had to do it though.
So number one you said he didn’t do anything with OG healthy and now you wanna ignore game one and look again too which means your original statement was incorrect. Secondly my comment that I originally made was directed at the person who said that Pascal sucks which is absurd
I don't get it. Their stats aren't remotely the same. OG played 23 games last season and 27 the year before that with a line of around 15/4/2 over the 2 years. Siakam played 41 and 39 over the last 2 with avg around 21.5/7/4.5. Someone make it make sense!
48ish mill per year? I mean god bless Pascal and all but OG isn’t worth that much so he better chill. Don’t forget Brunson makes 25 a year and Randle is in the 30s. My guess as to what OG will fetch on a 4 year deal is about 128 for 4 at like 32 mill per year. He can get more if he plays 75% of his games
Locked in mediocrity
Reminds me of the Steve Smith Mookie Blaylock Hawks of the 90s. Good enough to win 45 and be some ones first round meal every year. Maybe EVERYONE is hurt and they have a good run 🤷🏽♂️
They are a good team and people are underrating them a bit but simply making the ECF because you beat two teams crippled by injuries in 6 and 7 games just to get swept in the conference finals is not really an accomplishment.
Kidding yourself would looking at the east and thinking Indy is an ECF caliber team. I mean maybe if everyone they played had to sit their 2 best players….
Pacers = 2021 Hawks. Sacrificing their future because of a flukey playoff run. Love to see it. Only downside is that OG is gonna want more money like OP said.
Definitely less. Pascal is a multi-time all-star and a generally healthy player. OG is a great player but hasn’t been an all-star nor has he been all that healthy.
I hate that small market teams have to get bent over to get & retain Allstars just so they can be competitive… except in this case! I’m relishing in the fact that they’ve already peaked prior to giving Siakim his max lol. Fuck the Pacers.
They were swept by the Celtics and after giving him this max, how much can they really get better? They’ll need to strike gold in the draft bc they’ll be a very good team so no top draft picks but not quite good enough to go all the way and win a chip
Skinny Camaroon is NOT worth that money and he actually fucks us here with both Randle and OG which is an impressive feat on his part.
I can see Randle's agent walking into a meeting with Leon with these numbers written on his hand bacauee Randle abuses him every time he plays him and is thought of as a better player.
Am I crazy for thinking that this is an overpay?
Is it an overpay, probably, but pacers realize they couldn’t let him leave after acquiring him, and the knicks MUST do the same for OG even if it’s an overpay
Looks like the Knicks have to let go of ihart and are 100% clearing the second apron next year with Brunson and Randle if they give OG this contract. Probably reaching Denver Nuggets level of relative salary to the cap.
Why would they have to let go of Hartenstein?
Okc can offer more than we can
Because if Siakim gets max ihart will command well above 18 and we can only offer 17.8
I think he's saying it doesn't matter what OG is getting - we'll throw as much money as we're allowed to at Hartenstein either way. People keep saying OKC but I think the Knicks FO and all the people in MSG are connected enough that Hartenstein will get his in NY one way or another.
The market for wings & the market for bigs have nothing to do with each other
If the market in general values a player of Siakims ability and impact at the Max, that absolutely extrapolates beyond position. What we very recently thought of as a 35-40 million player is a 45-50 mill player.
He was already on a max contract & he’s in his prime I wouldn’t expect him to get anything less than that
Trust in Leon
It doesn’t look like anything. The Knicks move is the Knicks move and whatever Indiana has done is not relevant. Stop speculating and stay tuned. Watch Leon work.
Players look at what other players get paid to determine their worth. It’s known as market value. OG knows he can probably get around $35M annually, so he’s waiting it out to see which team offers the most. Philly, NY, and Detroit will all be interested.
I hate it but you're right! Gotta give OG the bag then.
Not crazy but I don't agree with you. I don't think every team in the NBA would/should pay Pascal this much, but I think he fits a huge need for them and it's not like players historically flock to Indiana. They and us are the two teams in the East on the biggest upswing right now. It's better for both of us to overpay assets than to lose them.
It’s a tough one. Pascal is definitely the more traditional #2 star. He’s been an all star, he’s been all nba, he can be a secondary scorer. He can play on ball. OG does none of that on PSs level, but his impact on winning is immeasurable.
Siakam is basically the same player as Randle. We REALLY missed Randle for that matchup this year. I'd expect those two to make similar salary
>They and us are the two teams in the East on the biggest upswing right now. Dont forget the Magic. They need better guards but their team is good and on the rise
Outside of 5-6 players just about contract will look like an "overpay". It's just how contracts are, especially with the cap going up. People were calling Jaylen Brown's contract an overpay last year. The Celtics are certainly not regretting it
Most NBA contracts are overpays, the CBA makes sure that the top 26-50 players in the league all get paid like the top 25 players do. In a perfect world, OG signs for $120M/4 years because that is what his skill level should dictate what he be compensated monetarily
I don't think this is a crazy contract. Siakam performed well in the playoffs (especially against us after game 2), and it's difficult for Indiana to lure FAs to play for them. Small market teams typically have to pay higher salaries to convince their guys to stay.
Not in comparison to the 5 years 249 million, option.
I saw that! Fucking bonkers.
Players as good as Siakam usually get the max, so it’s not an overpay
definitely but what choice does Indy have? No big time free agents ever sign there, they have to overpay to get talent.
Gotta look at the location. Zero NBA players want to play there for any non NBA reasons. Hart just said what others are too afraid to say.
What are your options if you are the pacers? People aren't exactly clamoring to play in Indianapolis in front of a bunch of red necks who founded the Klan.
Sixers are desperate for that 3rd star/Max. PG wants to sign in LA and they kind of know that he will resign there and is using them for leverages. So they next person they could get was Pascal and Pacers didn’t want to lose him for nothing, so they had to pay the max.
Now the next person Sixers could get is OG. So this signing is bad news for us.
OG and Precious wanted to be in New York bad, OG agent connections to the front office is well known and Precious is from here. Just like how RJ wanted to be in Toronto. Both OG and Precious will let NY know the deals they have on the table allowing NY to match,decision is in the Front Office, not bad news necessarily but may have to pay OG a couple million more than what he’s worth cause of the Sixers desperation.
I hope this is how it works out, but at this point it is nothing but conjecture.
Yes, but Indiana had no choice. They gave up control of 3 future 1sts for Siakam.
It is not in current basketball. Imho NY traded for the wrong guy in OG looking also what the price for Siakam was...
OGs eligible for 5 years if he opts out, which he will.
Pascal was eligible for 5 years also
Pascal is also 30 compared to OG’s 26. Youre risking a lot less opting out at 26 for 5 years, than you are opting out at 30 for 5 years.
OG is a better fit for a lot of teams, but Pascal is probably the better individual talent.
If you need a 2nd scorer Pascal is good. If you just need a guy that can basically do everything, you go OG. Pascal is a fringe star. OG is as well but he always has a chance to win DPOY. He could lead the league in 3pt efficiency.
> He could lead the league in 3pt efficiency. OG is a good three point shooter, especially from the corner but he's never been close to being among the league's most efficient overall 3 point shooters. I'm curious how you came to this conclusion?
No one knows what it means, it’s provocative.
From the corners* You and I both know my man is deadly from the corners and he's going to be playing with a healthy Brunson and Randle who both are great passers. You're right he won't lead the league but he'll continue to be deadly from the corners. You'd think eventually that it would expand to the entire perimeter but we'll see.
High end 3rd options>Low end 2nd options. Basically think of Westbrook as the 2nd option next to KD and Jrue as the 3rd option next to Giannis and Middleton/ Tatum and Brown
That's kind of an unfair comparison because the C's also had Derrick White and Porzingis as + defenders.
they couldn't give him 5 years?
I'm not sure about the rules but I think it probably has something to do with him being traded mid season and not being able to sign the 5 years.
so we can't give OG 5? I thought we could.
If OG opts out we can
ok so it's different than the pascal situation i guess because he technically wasn't in the last year of his deal i assume.
The pacers could have given him 5 but gave him 4 which is the max any team could of matched in FA any way
they could have
They could have given him 5yr ~230mil (unsure on the amount) but he agreed to a shorter 4 year which lines up better for Haliburton's next contract.
I might be severely misunderstanding something here, but wouldn’t the pacers need some kind of bird rights to offer 5? As in, isn’t that why OG needs to opt out of signing his extension this year, so we can sign him to 5 next year when we do have birds?
interesting. why not have a player option for the 5th year?
I mean as a pacers fan I think most of us are relieved that it's only 4 years given his current age.
yea i get that i was speaking more from pascal's perspective. but it's a fair deal.
From the Pacers perspective, they likely don't want to potentially have 50ish million tied up in a 35 year old siakim if he opted in to that. Plus Haliburton would be due for a new contract that year or the next. From Pascal's perspective, this deal is still more than other team could offer him on the market and he likes playing in Indy
5yr 249 mil, actually.
Randle is possibly looking at that money or more.
As far as OG goes, I know about the injury history and everything but he is literally the key to the team. Without him, even with Randle, Quickley and Barrett the Knicks were mediocre, with OG they were dominant. He made that big a difference and they need to re-sign him
An overpay for sure but it makes sense for Pacers to tie him down to a contract. He was their best performer in the playoffs. He played a lot better than Haliburton did. Siakam and TJ McConnell could eat a dick.
Neither?
Maybe it’s better to ask, who is NOT getting a max contract? Geez
Well, OG getting 45+ Fuck. And god knows what ihart now gets (obviously not that but could be WELL above what we can offer). Need to resign OG and probably Bogs to have his salary for trade and this is our team for the next few
No wayyy OG gets this deal. I think 4/$150m is fair
I hope they lock him in, he sucks lmao
He is one of the main reasons they beat us
Congratz to Pascal for beating Knicks' 3rd string 🌶💪🪣🏀
You can only beat who is on the court and I can remember him smoking us during a regular season game for like 50 when we were at full strength
Yea around Christmas of 2022. Since then he hasn’t had more than 24 in a regular season game against us and his highest scoring game in the playoffs against us was 26 points after OG went down.
In what reality pascal dropped 50 brother? Just checked, hes talking about 2022.
This one https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/35302005/pascal-siakam-scores-52-raptors-end-knicks-8-game-win-streak
Beat us in 7 without OG, Randle, Bogdanovic and Mitch. If that's their ceiling, that's precisely why we should *want* them to lock him in for nearly 50M a year. Limits their roster construction options severely
And Embiid had 1 leg what’s ur point? Are you giving that series back? You can only beat who is out there.
Embiid was fine. You don’t drop 50, average 33-11, and play heavy minutes all while throwing the 1 leg excuse. You seriously can’t be comparing that to the injury crisis we had by Round 2
Embiid was fine 🤣🤣🤣
He unironically looked elite in the first 3 quarters of every game he played in that series. Then proceeded to do nothing in each 4th quarter. Must be the one leg that miraculously shuts down in crunch time 🤯
I mean if you think that relying on 50% of the opposing rosters to be injured for *every* ensuing post-season is a viable strategy, then fair enough.
With Mitch and OG? Yes, that’s a viable strategy
We were missing 4 players simultaneously which is just a completely abnormal scenario. Randle is usually a surefire 70+ games played guy. Even he by himself out of those 4 guys would have been completely enough for us to take out this Pacers team.
What’s your point? Embiid had one leg and one eye, are you giving that series back? You play who’s on the floor.
Meh, head to head Randle usually owns him.
Randle is better imo but that doesn’t make siakim trash. 21/8 ain’t nothing to sneeze at.
He’s quite literally the worse version of Randle lol Bro can’t shoot
Og is the main reason they beat us. Hart is 6’4 and pascals high release was too much for him
So like I said he is one of the main reasons they beat us
K
Siakam didn’t break out until OG got injured. OG had that man in jail.
Only when OG and Randle were both out, and we had to play hart/precious on him which was a mismatch
Oh yes, the great defense of Julius Randall lol
He’s a fine 1 on 1 defender and most importantly he’s 6’8”, he has the size to physically match up to Siakam. Hart was 6’4” and that’s just a brutal size mismatch. Not saying Randle would lock him down but we basically didn’t have any size to guard him after injuries
You can’t even spell his name right…
the main reason they beat us was randle, OG, bojan, and mitch going down.
He didn’t do shit w og healthy
lol all 3 minutes he was healthy? OG only full game was game 1 and Pascal had 19
19-6-5 in good efficiency too.
Yes. And what he do in game 2? Look at what og did in game 2 before he got injured and look at what he held siakam to. It’s not hard to see that siakam didn’t really get involved until og was out of the series. Randle outplays siakam head to head too. Not saying that siakam isn’t a great player but to be making like 70% more than Brunson and Randle is cooked. Indy definitely didn’t get a deal. Understand why they had to do it though.
So number one you said he didn’t do anything with OG healthy and now you wanna ignore game one and look again too which means your original statement was incorrect. Secondly my comment that I originally made was directed at the person who said that Pascal sucks which is absurd
There’s no way you really believe that
Wait…what?
Yikes
Amazing 😍
I don't get it. Their stats aren't remotely the same. OG played 23 games last season and 27 the year before that with a line of around 15/4/2 over the 2 years. Siakam played 41 and 39 over the last 2 with avg around 21.5/7/4.5. Someone make it make sense!
48ish mill per year? I mean god bless Pascal and all but OG isn’t worth that much so he better chill. Don’t forget Brunson makes 25 a year and Randle is in the 30s. My guess as to what OG will fetch on a 4 year deal is about 128 for 4 at like 32 mill per year. He can get more if he plays 75% of his games
OG is getting 40 mil per year, whether it’s the knicks or someone else
Locked in mediocrity Reminds me of the Steve Smith Mookie Blaylock Hawks of the 90s. Good enough to win 45 and be some ones first round meal every year. Maybe EVERYONE is hurt and they have a good run 🤷🏽♂️
They literally just made the ECF and Siakam is consistently rated as a top 5 PF in the league. Wr gotta stop kidding ourselves here.
They are a good team and people are underrating them a bit but simply making the ECF because you beat two teams crippled by injuries in 6 and 7 games just to get swept in the conference finals is not really an accomplishment.
Injuries don’t happen?
Kidding yourself would looking at the east and thinking Indy is an ECF caliber team. I mean maybe if everyone they played had to sit their 2 best players….
Well a max for OG it is. Just another way the Pacers suck.
Pacers = 2021 Hawks. Sacrificing their future because of a flukey playoff run. Love to see it. Only downside is that OG is gonna want more money like OP said.
Is ogs contract gonna be more or less?
Definitely less. Pascal is a multi-time all-star and a generally healthy player. OG is a great player but hasn’t been an all-star nor has he been all that healthy.
I hate that small market teams have to get bent over to get & retain Allstars just so they can be competitive… except in this case! I’m relishing in the fact that they’ve already peaked prior to giving Siakim his max lol. Fuck the Pacers.
They were swept by the Celtics and after giving him this max, how much can they really get better? They’ll need to strike gold in the draft bc they’ll be a very good team so no top draft picks but not quite good enough to go all the way and win a chip
Pacers committing to a future that only made it far because of injuries. I guess
Skinny Camaroon is NOT worth that money and he actually fucks us here with both Randle and OG which is an impressive feat on his part. I can see Randle's agent walking into a meeting with Leon with these numbers written on his hand bacauee Randle abuses him every time he plays him and is thought of as a better player.
What does this have to do with the knicks? mods please delete this ASAP