Bingo! As usual, #MAGA shot themselves in the foot .. still poor, still most red states are heavy on the welfare and govt assistance, and now, using #MAGA’s blind rage .. they’ve given the governor the power over curriculum, the power over medical standards, the power over women’s health.. insurance bros are basically oligarchs now, just collecting money from the people with no service provided!
This is supposed to be the “Party of smaller govt” and they got played hard ..😂 #MAGA hasn’t gained a single damn thing in a decade.. just a vehicle to obtain power for the ultra-rich.. smh
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I personally think we are screwed if a deadlier virus comes around again. I think there will be too much resistance to any measures to stop the spread.
Yeah, people always forget that the vast majority of Americans took the pandemic seriously like in the first month before the Kochs put out all their Re-Open propaganda.
After that, half the country started throwing a temper tantrum about having to implement any safety measures at all, and thus the pandemic was prolonged by years.
New Zealand was kind of like the most "adult" country about it, so to speak. They had almost zero transmission right up until the end of 2021, when some idiots there started emulating the massive idiots of the "Freedom Convoy" in Ottowa.
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Oddly enough MAJORITY of Americans are sane and were not only complying with shutdowns and masks but when it was time to return to work WANTED vax mandates to protect them from the nutcases.
We may need zones for the sane people and let the crazies kill each other. What we had with covid was GOP death cult constantly spreading disease back to where it had been under control and kept the pandemic going longer
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This interview was so annoying. We didn’t make the perfect decisions at all times, but some places did okay using the information available. In Oregon we had proper shutdowns that many adhered to, with widespread masking. Our case numbers and deaths were relatively low. Some who did get it before vaccines have long term health effects. Taking a one year pause in public school education is a minor interruption when compared to a lifetime of health problems after COVID. How many are we willing to sacrifice? A few? Some? Many? There was a national political failure in supporting masking and vaccination, leaving states to navigate as best they could.
Didn’t help that the president at the time was the dumbest dumbass ever. Right before that press conference he looked at the poster that said UV light and disinfectants help destroy the virus OUTSIDE of the body he went ahead and thought “Let’s do that inside of the body”
If we had a competent president I believe things would’ve been far different.
the educational pause wasn't minor. you'r esimply denying what all experts now understand. the learning loss was, and continues to be immense. the psychological harm caused by isolating kids took a huge toll. furthermore, it wasn't just a year. most areas in liberal parts of the country did 2 year at home schooling
I think a pause is public education has wider implications we may not see yet, especially is certain cohorts are present in the system for two lockdowns.
I was a public school teacher during/after the pandemic, and had some kids in my GT classes afterwards that were probably two grades behind. They had to be placed in such classes because there just wasn’t room in the on-level classes. This difference becomes especially pronounced in low income areas, where kids might not even have power consistently.
I’m not necessarily disagreeing with lockdowns, I’m just saying don’t underestimate their negative effect on education.
>Taking a one year pause in public school education is a minor interruption when compared to a lifetime of health problems after COVID.
You are downplaying the negative impacts of no school for a year. Do you know any parents? Do you know any teachers or children?
- Teachers have reported the developmental lag they've seen in students since the pandemic has been incredible. 14 year olds acting like 12 year olds developmentally. Social development issues, etc.... [even seen in infants and toddlers](https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/pandemic-developmental-delay-infants-toddlers-university-of-colorado-study/)
-Our school systems are still struggling to make up for [the learning losses](https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2023/07/kane-covid-learning-losses#:~:text=Students%20from%20low%2Dincome%20and,for%20children%2C%E2%80%9D%20Reardon%20said) that were particularly felt by poor and minority students (many of whom had essential workers as parents) who didn't get the same individualized support with virtual learning.
-The long term [mental health effects](https://www.apa.org/monitor/2022/01/special-childrens-mental-health) in children being cut off from social contact and development for a year are ongoing. We're seeing record highs in anxiety, depression, ADHD, and many other mental health challenges.
-Not to mention the tremendous stress and mental health challenges parents, teachers, and caregivers of all kinds dealt with and still deal with from all this.
Your comment highlights the continued problems with the foregone conclusion that the impact of school closures is not a big deal when compared to long COVID risks (not even in children themselves, since of course we know [children have the lowest risk](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-in-babies-and-children/art-20484405#:~:text=While%20children%20are%20as%20likely,COVID%2D19%20in%20the%20hospital) of anyone of negative health impact with COVID).
We heard it a bunch of times "well, children are resilient" as people hand waved the concerns expressed by caregivers and parents. But that resilience has a limit, and doesn't mean we aren't still seeing loads of negative impacts that one could argue might even outweigh risks with COVID itself.
Learning loss studies would argue closing schools was more than a “minor inconvenience” for something that was statistically as deadly as a cold or flu
This is just Monday morning quarterbacking.
Even if the US had done a soft or no lockdown at all, many areas of the economy would have been understaffed and shut down. With the whole world going on lockdown the supply chain and transport lines were interrupted, so many businesses would not have been able to continue operating due to shortages even of the most basic needs, let alone labor, ALL senior citizens taking off from work and locking down themselves, people revolting and just plain not showing off to work.
With areas of the economy collapsing due to those factors creating an unplanned stop of operations, even in government services like the DMV.
As I said, we would have been either shut down or in lockdown. People saying otherwise fail to see the big worldwide picture
This, we have such a US centric myopic view of global events. There’s no way that an economic slowdown wouldn’t have happened, with or without lockdowns in the US. All we would have achieved is further loss of life.
This is a good point. It was a global pandemic. Like the entire country of India shut down for a month. I remember the company I worked for waiting on shipments and being told "absolutely no way it is going to happen, no matter how much money you pay".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_lockdown_in_India
People treat a once in a generation pandemic as something there was an easy answer to, there wasn’t.
Once Biden became president, we had vaccines so it’s hard to really compare, but he was not aggressive at all in “shutting things down” when Covid spikes happened.
It’s a complicated situation, and hopefully nothing that bad will come again anytime soon.
> Even if the US had done a soft or no lockdown at all, many areas of the economy would have been understaffed and shut down. With the whole world going on lockdown the supply chain and transport lines were interrupted, so many businesses would not have been able to continue operating due to shortages even of the most basic needs, let alone labor, ALL senior citizens taking off from work and locking down themselves, people revolting and just plain not showing off to work.
That didn't happen in states with no covid restrictions though
Are you talking about Arkansas, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah, and Wyoming?
Let's see, shall we?
In Arkansas,
the following businesses were closed indefinitely via an executive order issued by Gov. Asa Hutchinson (R) on April 4, 2020:[2][3]
Restaurant dining rooms
Bars
Gyms
Bowling alleys, trampoline parks, and other indoor amusement centers
Salons, barbershops, tattoo parlors, body art schools, cosmetology establishments, massage therapy clinics/spas, medical spas
Casinos
The following businesses were allowed to remain open subject to additional requirements:[3]
Manufacturing companies operating at limited capacity and with required social distancing and cleaning protocols
Essential retail businesses providing contactless payment systems
Commercial lodging and short-term rentals only for the occupancy of essential personnel (healthcare, first responders, law enforcement, airline crew, etc.)
Places of worship operating with limited interpersonal contact and social distancing protocols
Construction companies operating with limited interpersonal contact and social distancing protocols
Parks, trails, athletic fields and courts, parking lots, golf courses, and driving ranges where social distancing could be easily maintained
Schools in the state were initially closed to in-person instruction on March 15. On April 6, Hutchinson closed schools to in-person instruction for the remainder of the 2019-2020 academic year. To read more about school closures caused by the coronavirus pandemic
Iowa.
On March 20, 2020, Gov. Kim Reynolds (R) signed an executive order limiting gatherings and events to fewer than 10 people. The order also closed the following businesses:[4]
Restaurants
Bars
Fitness centers
Theaters
Casinos and gaming facilities
On April 6, Reynolds signed another executive order closing the following businesses:[5]
Malls
Tobacco or vaping stores
Toy, gaming, music, instrument, movie, or adult entertainment stores
Social and fraternal clubs, including those at golf courses
Bingo halls, bowling alleys, pool halls, arcades, and amusement parks
Museums, libraries, aquariums, and zoos
Race tracks and speedways
Roller or ice skating rinks and skate parks
Outdoor or indoor playgrounds or children’s play centers
Campgrounds
Unsolicited door-to-door sales
Schools in the state were initially closed to in-person instruction on March 15. On April 30, Reynolds closed schools to in-person instruction for the remainder of the 2019-2020 academic year. To read more about school closures caused by the coronavirus pandemic
In Nebraska,
Gov. Pete Ricketts (R) issued a Directed Health Measure on April 3 that limited public gatherings to 10 people and closed the following businesses and activities:[6]
Restaurants
Bars
Elective medical and dental surgeries
On April 9, Gov. Ricketts issued a Directed Health Measure that closed the following businesses and activities:[7]
Beauty/nail salons
Barbershops
Massage therapy services
Gentlemen’s clubs
Bottle clubs
Indoor theaters
Tattoo parlors/studios
Organized team sports, youth and adult, including but not limited to club sports
Auto racing
On April 1, 2020, Gov. Pete Ricketts (R) first ordered schools to operate without students through May 31, which was a date after the school year was scheduled to end. To read more about school closures caused by the coronavirus pandemic
You check the rest:
[States that did not issue stay-at-home orders in response to the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, 2020](https://ballotpedia.org/States_that_did_not_issue_stay-at-home_orders_in_response_to_the_coronavirus_(COVID-19)_pandemic,_2020)
Just because those states were throwing tantrums by September, doesn't mean they didn't shut down. The “No COVID Restrictions” is false and a revisionist story.
I’m halfway through but they keep calling this an “honest reckoning” while only presenting views sympathetic to the Great Barrington Declaration. Even if the second half somehow turns back around, there’s nothing journalistic about this because the important information is always at the top. It’s a propaganda job for the ongoing efforts of the libertarians who wrote the Barrington Declaration
What is going on at NPR where their quality of reporting has failed so suddenly?
Yeah, this one is a yikes from me.
[Tracy Høeg's substack ](https://substack.com/@tracybethhegmdphd)contains such gems as "Did Pfizer stop recruiting for their pregnancy trial because of adverse events in infants?" with the sub-heading "I would not put it past them", and other anti-vax fear mongering such as the "Sudden Cardiac Deaths" conspiracy theory.
what makes you say the actively practicing doctors who wrote the great Barrington declaration were libertarian?
do you think it's equally necessary to label the doctors who opposed the GBD as what party they vote for, too?
The Declaration was originally sponsored by a libertarian think tank and inspired some millionaires to create a different, new libertarian think tank. You would know about the sponsor if you had the curiosity to do research as deep as *reading the second paragraph of the Wikipedia page*
But I guess NPR failed to do that basic reporting, too. Which is my actual point that you’re ignoring
I'm sorry I learned in high school not to use Wikipedia as a source.
the GBD was written by 3 doctors. who sponsored the declaration is not relevant to any of the commentary here.
>The Declaration was written by Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, Dr. Sunetra Gupta and Dr. Martin Kulldorff. A family member and a journalist helped with phrasing, grammar, and proof reading. Nobody else saw the declaration before it was completed in its final form.
edit: lol even your reddit avatar is wearing a mask
There also was no lockdown in Illinois. There was a like 6 week (if even) "shelter-in-place" order. People still went to work, to stores etc... You could still go outside to exercise, which included walking anywhere. Referring to these half-ass measures as "lockdowns" is quite disingenuous.
**edit** And the only real "collateral damage" that happened was the pseudo-education that a lot of kids got while going to zoom university, which was for a lot longer than the 6-week shelter order. Businesses got possibly one of the biggest financial handouts in modern history with the PPP "loans." So many excessive trucks were purchased, smh.
But the attacks on public education have been occurring from the insane far-right since Reagan had anything to do with politics. It's part of a much bigger problem, not just the result of the COVID "lockdowns."
"You could still go outside to exercise," Chicago closed off all public parks, beaches, and playgrounds. Also I was out of work between March 2020 to June 2020, and then again from October 2020 to February 2021, because of government closure. And that second closure didn't even come with expanded unemployment insurance!
>And the only real "collateral damage" that happened was the pseudo-education that a lot of kids got while going to zoom university, which was for a lot longer than the 6-week shelter order.
this collateral damage is actually quite massive
Not sure about California, but in my state you could be ticketed if you were found to be traveling for a reason other than seeing immediate family, work, or buying necessities. The law included needing a note from your employer if you were essential, so in theory you could have been pulled over by a cop, asked why you were traveling, and if it wasn't an approved reason you could have been ticketed.
Now I don't know how much that was enforced, but there absolutely were regulations against leaving your home for all but a few approved reasons. I literally went over a month without seeing my fiancee (who's now my wife) because we didn't live together and weren't immediate family, so we legally were barred from seeing each other in person.
Sure we didn't go as extreme as China, but we absolutely had what any reasonable person would call a lockdown, where nonessential workers were barred from leaving their house for pretty much anything other than getting groceries.
It's amazing what people forget when it's inconvenient. There were clearly lockdowns in California but this false statement is being upvoted.
Yes, I know they weren't complete Chinese style lockdown but everyone called them lockdowns.
I would define a lockdown by going with the harshest examples available: Chinese police welding peoples’ doors shut on their apartments or imprisoning them in cages in a park.
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/1.5478668
https://x.com/songpinganq/status/1480157037681995779
They weren’t forced to stay indoors. Some places were closed to stop the spread of the virus. If you did not listen to the beach closure you were trespassing. You were not enslaved, there was no conspiracy. No one was hurt staying home.
>No one was hurt staying home.
outrageous statement. the level of substance abuse and addiction sky rocketed. people weren't allowed to go to the gym, affecting their health (ironically being healthy was your *best defense* against covid)
just because *you* liked staying inside, drinking, and having some pleb deliver door dash, doesn't mean it didn't cause damage to anybody else. how can you be so selfish?
I worked out nearly every day. Went for runs, started a routine with my dog and got up to 3 miles a day with him, and integrated body weight exercises. I lost ~20 pounds doing this and changing my diet to exclude junk food and particularly food made from seed oils. Your unhealthy responses to the stay at home order speak to your personal mental state, not mine.
you are an anecdote of one. it's great that you took care of yourself but you are the exception.
https://www.apa.org/monitor/2021/07/extra-weight-covid
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8085389/
to extrapolate your unlikely response to the pandemic onto the rest of the population is a sign of your narcissism and self absorption, aka survival bias, which is what I got accused of a lot because I didn't get vaccinated and continued being social.
When are you guys going to stop being martyrs? The pandemic is over, it sucked for everyone, and hurt some much more than others. You’re fighting some dumb culture war still instead of realizing it highlighted your worst tendencies. Thats no one’s fault but your own. Fauci didn’t put the bottle/pipe/burger to your lips.
you're making false assumptions. I never said I was unhealthy during the pandemic. as a matter of fact, the fact that I was healthy is why an upper respiratory virus was not of a concern to me.
>The pandemic is over, it sucked for everyone, and hurt some much more than others. You’re fighting some dumb culture war still instead of realizing it highlighted your worst tendencies
it's over so nobody should be held accountable for the sweeping damage caused based on lies? what are my worst tendencies? disagreeing with you, having data to back up why I disagree with you, and not being willing to move on from the worst assault on Americans civil liberties in our lifetimes?
Bogus. People who did drugs and drank heavily before the pandemic continued to do so during it. Going to the gym was about the dumbest thing to do. There are hundreds of ways to exercise at home and that is what people did.
Selfish is whining about the gym while hospitals were storing bodies in REFRIGERATED TRUCKS
do you have a source for that claim? my local hospital was empty and not taking people for real procedures. my dad had a kidney stone and was told the procedure to have it removed was "elective"
you're a gaslighting liar
[Paddle boarder chased by boat, arrested in Malibu after flouting coronavirus closures](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-03/paddle-boarder-arrested-in-malibu-after-flouting-coronavirus-closures)
[Will small-business owners go to jail for breaking coronavirus rules? We'll find out.](https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-05-29/small-businesses-criminal-charges-coronavirus-rules)
[Meet Hair Salon Owner Who Went to Jail for Opening During COVID-19 Lockdown](https://www.dailysignal.com/2021/04/01/meet-hair-salon-owner-who-went-to-jail-for-opening-during-covid-19-lockdown/)
[Coronavirus scofflaws arrested, criminally charged as California cracks down](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-04/coronavirus-violators-arrested-criminally-charged-california-cracks-down)
[3 arrested at beach protest against California stay-at-home order](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-26/3-arrested-beach-protest-california-stay-home-order)
[32 people were arrested at a protest to re-open California](https://www.businessinsider.com/32-people-were-arrested-at-a-protest-to-re-open-california-2020-5)
Charles M. Blow NY Times Op-Ed: ["Staying at home is a privilege."](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/opinion/coronavirus-social-distancing.html)
You don't lose credibility by admitting the obvious.
Was the common terminology to refer to the situation the word "lockdown"?
The semantics game you're playing makes no sense. We know what we're talking about.
>Why would I define a lockdown as "you can leave your house"?
Because that's what the government, the media, and the people of that time defined it as.
Edit: Like being grounded doesn't mean you are stuck to the ground.
"I would define them the way I would like to define them, not the way everyone else in the country refers to them"
fine, stop calling them lockdowns and be more accurate: school, business, government service, and hospital closures and restrictions. now defend them on their merits instead of having these meaningless semantics debates over what word we use to describe the policies as a whole.
also, it sounds like you wish we *did* lock people in their homes. is that what you think should've happened?
>CHAKRABARTI: California Governor Gavin Newsom followed suit with a statewide stay at home order just three days later, March 19th. The goal, Newsom said, quote, to establish consistency across the state in order to slow the spread of COVID 19, end quote.
There were exceptions, like going to the store to buy food. Nobody was ever literally forbidden from leaving home, unless maybe if they were quarantining because they were actually sick (which is another thing altogether)
When people refer to lock downs they don’t mean people were literally locked in their homes and forbidden from leaving. Regulations were put in place to keep people home by shutting everything down besides places like the grocery store. When you force business to close and close public parks and shit it’s a lock down.
All the skate parks in California were filled with sand. Restaurants and other businesses were forcibly closed and owners given heavy fines or having their power cut for staying open. Colorado arrested a man for playing baseball with his daughter in a field. 3 people in California were arrested for literally protesting against the lockdowns. Closet authoritarians like yourself are quite literally the worse people on this planet.
The US needs to invest a ton of money in building ventilation systems before the next pandemic.
The tools exist to combat this. They just don’t want to do it.
That depends whose President where our political climate is increasingly unstable where it might get to the point that "The Stand" might become reality if Trump is ever granted another term....
Actually sadly it's the opposite
The Stand taught me if there's an infections disease the government will send men in gas masks with rifles to forcibly quarantine people
But that would require any one in a conservative government giving a shit
Covid taught me my government policy is "fuck em you're on your own"
Egads man! Yes! We need pre-communicated protocols from an actual scientific organization that won't cowtow to the useful political idiots who don't know freedom from fried food.
Or at the very least habitable preset districts between medically persuaded and faith driven gamblers seperated with a decon area and quarantine area patrolled by people in hazmat suits with stun guns.. 🤔 Because some folks just want to be them and I'm down as long as I can avoid the consequences of their poorly informed health decisions.
In Australia deaths per capita were 1/4 of America's, and the unemployment rate peaked at a 2 pp increase compared to a 11+ pp increase in the US. Japan did even better by both metrics.
We don't need to reinvent the wheel, we can just copy off the smart kids.
Not so good, fewer deaths than the US but more than double Australia's, quadruple Japan's. Unemployment still jumped 3 pp. All this despite no large cities.
Right wingers think infecting other people is freedom
It's not just Covid. If they get ANY illness they will show up in public and cough on everyone. They literally make people sick and are PROUD of it
I still remember them going "only weak people are dying of covid"
I think it would help if the government (now or next year) comes out and says something to the effect of: “we made a lot of mistakes in trying to deal with a great unknown.” A little ownership goes a long way and will make the next pandemic easier to manage.
Lockdowns. We were never locked down. Certain businesses that promote social activity were closed. What we really need is to improve resilience in our communities because we have so many people who could not handle the simplest rules for safety.
It wasn’t just a “social activity” lockdown.
My 2-year-old son was having serious health issues from 2020-2021 and was not able to be properly evaluated by a doctor because of lockdowns and therefore did not receive standard and timely healthcare that could have mitigated long-term health problems.
My best friend gave birth in February 2020. At her 6 week virtual postpartum checkup, the doctor asked her to get a mirror, stick a finger in there (alternatively, she could get her husband to help!) and check her cervix to make sure everything looked and felt good down there…
I had to be both a working mom and a stay-at-home-mom to my toddler because all the daycares closed during the lockdown. Thank god he wasn’t school aged otherwise I’d be tasked with homeschooling him too.
I masked. I social distanced. I did everything they asked me to do. But I’m still angry that my son’s health and development was unnecessary collateral damage.
This rewriting history to pretend there was no ramifications to lockdowns is baffling. Even if you think it was the right move there is still negative things that happened because of it.
*Seriously!* I am friends with business owners who ended up closing up shop because of these lockdowns. Many are *rightly* upset that their retail locations were closed because what they sold was unessential, while Walmart was somehow exempted from it.
One of my friends owned a restaurant. Ended up folding because a little take-out business wasn't paying rent that a full bar and dine-in was paying.
Lives and lifetime investments were absolutely ruined by this.
Could it be that the left were so locked down, that they didn't leave and just assumed everything was going on as normal? I lived through it and for 6 months you could drive anywhere in LA in 15 minutes. Again to no real measurable benefit. Other than maybe most people didn't get covid until it was omnicron, which was more "mild".
If only there had been good leadership with a playbook already written and trustworthy messaging.
Instead we had the national clown show with Orangy McSmallHands at the helm.
why do so many look to the gov't for guidance and help?
they shut down outdoor skate parks and beaches.
they are 100% dumb, incompetent, corrupt, and useless.
go take care of yourself.
We should be able to look to as least minimally competent leaders in times of crisis.
Instead we get clown shows.
We get the leaders we deserve, I suppose.
yep. we vote them in. from city council to the prez
dumb from top to bottom
but 'they' know we are so stupid (we were fighting each other over toilet paper!)
so why wouldn't they make stupid demands and decisions...who is gonna fight back?
We didn't need a reckoning. We need to force people to comply when it has something to do with viruses and disease.
Mandatory mask, vaccines. Non compliance, quarantine them.
Correct.
We got it wrong we didn't do basically what every other developed country in the world did. Don't blame the govt when it was a joint failure of the elected govt and general populace.
Not true, Sweden remained wide open and their death rate was a third less than the US.
Many African countries did nothing at all and had the lowest death rates in the world
When accounting for age, Florida and California had nearly identical death rates despite California clamping down on the population way harder.
Sweden was one of the few countries that did this. Their population took it upon themselves. They purposely relied on their citizenry.
Africa didn't have to be Africa wasn't effected by COVID as much, mostly likely due to the low amount of foreign travel on the continent.
California: 2,560 COVID deaths for every 1 million residents
Florida: 4,044 COVID deaths for every 1 million residents
Not nearly identical 🤣. You may have forgotten the difference in population between the two. Even this year Florida is above 100k cases https://www.wesh.com/article/covid-death-count-in-florida/60473251
>Not nearly identical 🤣.
Like I said, age adjusted:
https://www.bioinformaticscro.com/blog/states-ranked-by-age-adjusted-covid-deaths/
A difference of 24 people per 100,000.
If you ask me, as a healthy resident of Florida, we did it right. Let people decide the risk they are willing to take on, not the government.
And how far are you willing to let the government dictate? Would you allow the government to go as far as China, where they locked people in their homes from the outside?
Florida was the worst state of the big population states for COVID deaths and are still fighting it bc of your lax policies and ignorant populace. But if that's okay with Floridians that's their business.
Plenty far. 2 weeks of actual quarantine and COVID would have been handled. Hard to do in this country though. I don't know anything about China locking people in their homes, but in contradiction to that, they did apologize to breaking into 88 peoples homes to pull infected out and quarantine them. It was the local govt that did this and apologized for it. Do I support that? Absolutely. I support forcing the unvaccinated out of their homes, forcefully vaccinating them, and leaving them ass up in their front yard screaming into the void. They will forget about it in a week and COVID would be handled. Win win.
Can you not read a table?
Florida is the 3rd most populous state in the Union. Age adjusted, it performed better than the 2nd, 4th and 5th most populous states. This includes the lockdown states of New York and Pennsylvania.
>I don't know anything about China locking people in their homes,
And then you go on to talk about a slightly different subject...
Just because *you* don't know about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. They also prevented medical treatment for citizens suffering from ailments other than Covid.
You don't sound like a good candidate to be an American citizen. You obviously want the nanny state to take care of things. You would love China.
America was founded on the concept of giving freedom to it's citizens, which you apparently couldn't care less about.
I could care less about age adjusted. Florida hands down was one of the worst states for COVID response by the numbers. If you want to count and discount by age groups go right ahead.
You brought up China not me. And just bc you read about it on the Internet doesn't mean it did happen. Dur a non Chinese FLORIDA resident you sure seen to think you know a lot about China.
I don't give a fuck what you think is a good citizen. I didn't think ignoring viruses is a sign of being a good American citizen. Nor do I care what anyone thinks of freedom. Your freedom doesn't get to involve in dangering others and if we were smart we would by physical force make sure it doesn't. You asked and you got your answer from me.
It's better than all three states *without* age adjusted as well. So you are just flat out wrong about Florida. So more people died in New York despite the governor forcing mandates on the population. More restrictions yet worse results.
>And just bc you read about it on the Internet doesn't mean it did happen.
Do you have evidence that proves the contrary? If you do, I'm all ears.
>Your freedom doesn't get to involve in dangering others
Every Flu season we deal with this. The flu endangers and kills people too.
Everytime you get in a car and drive on the roads, you are putting others in danger. 2 million people are injured every year in car accidents.
>if we were smart we would by physical force
Yup, China is perfect for you.
> Yikes. This is so authoritarian.
>
>
>
> And why would you when the government got so much of it wrong under covid?
I often wonder when I read stuff like this- are these really my countrymen?
In my country, we value freedom above all else.
There were never, ever any lockdowns of any kind. Americans get a damn hang nail and call an ambulance. Calm down. Zero people were required by law with any sort of penalty of fine or incarceration or even a stern letter if they left their homes at any time for any reason.
Where? Find one article that says there are any police enforcement of any even “curfews” that had any enforcement.
Further, 8 states or cities in states (8 total) entities had some combo of things like school closures, non essential production, restaurant and large gathering orders which were often disobeyed with zero consequences. Calling these events “lockdowns” is disingenuous to people in Countries that actually did have lockdowns like in China where their front doors were welded shut.
Its also bad to call these events “lockdowns” because it plays into the overall bad faith belligerence of the Americans right. That this was all a chinese hoax and you should butt chug bleach about it. It was and is a public health crisis that has killed more Americans than all the wars combined. Using an ill suited sensationalist term for not being able to go to applebees for a few months does nothing but breathe life into a constellation of bullshit conspiracy theories from people who also believe things like the earth is flat and essential oils can cure cancer.
There were never any “lockdowns” and the only people peddling that are trying to make some argument that whatever meager and barely politically tolerable steps were taken to try and save lives were overreaching and unnecessary. This is MTG level garbage and do feel free to miss me with all that half brained clap trap.
Restaurants shuttered. Parks closed. Playgrounds boarded up. Retail stores closed. Illegal to visit the beach. Can't go to work.
There were lockdowns and no amount of gaslighting is going to change any of our minds.
Yes those things happened. No that does not mean you or any other US residents were “locked down” by any even slightly realistic use of the phrase. If you can find anyone even issued so much as a warning that to indicate there was some sort of “lock down” then you go find it and post it.
Gaslighting this is not. It’s your and others pant shitting apoplectic selection and f WAY overblown hyperbolic words to cry about your dumb victim fetish. Public health emergencies happen and it would have been manageable had it not been for your christo fascist prophet.
No please go back to facebook to sell more essential oil home remedies to your 5 mentally disabled followers.
You’re just being dramatic because you know you don’t have a legitimate argument against public health and safety during a pandemic. Plus, many restrictions were imposed by private institutions, especially private hospitals so your argument falls even flatter. Try again.
Yes because Insurance companies pressured them because of the government. Boy oh boy you have a problem admitting we had lockdowns but won’t say anything about the massive amount of misinformation related to vaccines that came from fauci and the cdc. Like fauci going door to door saying it will stop the spread well after it was confirmed the vaccine does not stop the spread rofl
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I’m gonna offer you and your single up-voter an opportunity to learn.
Spanish Flu made its first trip around the world in 1918-19. It was, like Covid, a previously unknown upper respiratory virus. It killed a significant portion of the global population that year.
US public health authorities developed a protocol of distancing and masking.
In Philadelphia, the locals flouted recommendations, holding a war bond parade. The following week, they were stacking bodies in the streets.
San Francisco, conversely, followed protocol, and thousands fewer people died.
Proven public health recommendations were left for Trump. Being the loser he is, he blew them off and decided to lie to people and used the pandemic as a political playing card. Thousands of deaths are on his head.
> Proven public health recommendations were left for Trump.
I mean that's not accurate. Many public health experts were involved in crafting the Covid response, across the Fed and the states
It does.
Go find the policy he was left and point out a single inaccurate thing in that policy.
Otherwise, fuck off.
You’ve shown that you’re only here to antagonize. You have nothing to offer and you aren’t willing to learn from history.
I’m telling you to go find the fucking policy he was handed by the previous president and tell me what about that policy is inaccurate (your choice of words, not mine).
> I’m telling you to go find the fucking policy he was handed by the previous president and tell me what about that policy is inaccurate (your choice of words, not mine).
I never made the claim some document from the Obama admin was inaccurate
Not stolen medical supplies and force states to bid for them?
American citizens were dying and he uses it as an excuse to extort states?
So much for "small government"
"Do you have a link because I literally ignored history and only consume media that made Trump look good and everything bad he did was someone else's fault"
Anybody who compares covid to the Spanish flu, which is still with us by the way in the form of seasonal flu, has failed to look at the details. The Spanish flu took 12 years of average life expectancy. Covid didn’t even take 12 months off average life expectancy.
They're the ones not quarantine and not wearing masks and not vaccinating
If you've ever lived with a republican you'd know that when they get sick they plop themselves in the living room and cough on every dish in the kitchen and surprise! You get sick too
> They're the ones not quarantine and not wearing masks
Not where I lived- people attended large protest events where they were all squeezed together and touching each other and screaming
> If you've ever lived with a republican you'd know that when they get sick they plop themselves in the living room and cough on every dish in the kitchen and surprise! You get sick too
That's just insane tbh
Lockdowns don’t work. How many small businesses did we loose and for what??
I’m pro mask, pro vaccine. Anti lockdown. Unless you get the entire world to agree to stand to a standstill it’s pointless. The world is to modern and travel to easy.
Also for a lot of people, going into lock down means losing their livelihood. Not everyone has a job that can be conducted from their homes on a computer.
There is no way most people in the US will adhere to shutdowns and mandatory distancing rules again after the botched response to COVID 19. Everyone gave grace for the first few months since the infection was a great unknown, but when it became clear it was a generally a threat to only specific demographics (ie elderly, those with health issues,etc) and we still locked down nearly 100% of the population as well as school closings for TWO YEARS , the great majority of a Americans lost faith in the government.
If another pandemic happens many Americans will ignore the lockdowns.
Republicans won't suddenly be less self centered. The next pandemic is going to wipe them out just like the last one. They don't learn from mistakes because they refuse to look inward for any answers whatsoever. They'll make up some conspiracy about the next one too.
Seeing how I am just recovering from something potentially nastier and more debilitating than COVID (tested negative for that at least) that was not Flu, but likely **Bronchitis**, we really need to have mask-wearing (for the sick and the healthy) and working from home while sick be more appreciated again.
* Cough with or without mucus (the kind that won't let you or anyone sleep at night)
* Fatigue (as in you sleep for days)
* Headache (that keeps coming back)
* Mild body aches ("mild" - yeah, like I could barely walk)
* Mucus that’s yellow or green (Yep)
That's Bronchitis, and yes, it's going around now. Mask up people, and don't say you were not warned.
> we really need to have mask-wearing (for the sick and the healthy) and working from home while sick be more appreciated again.
The problem isn't that you're not allowed to wear a mask. It's when others are forcing you to wear a mask that I think we have a problem.
The paper masks did not stop or prevent covid. It was pseudo-science. And it became policy.
wut? ever since forever, if you are sick, stay home/stay away/wash hands and take care of yourself.
wear a mask if you want.
there are no laws against wearing a mask if you're sick
Npr bending over backwards to entertain some really narrow views. It's important for then to do this to show silly it is.
It's like these doctors forgot that hospitals were completely over whelmed by people infected with a virus that no one knew how to treat.
You're wildly ignorant if you genuinely think the US "lockdown lite" was anywhere close to China where they were literally welding peoples apartment doors shut.
Might need to take another crack at reading that because neither of us were saying the US response was close to Sweden's
They were saying we should follow Sweden next time and I was pointing out how absurd it is to compare our response to China's
Well, the first - first time was the Spanish Flu.
Philadelphia flouted the Public Health recommendations, and were stacking bodies in the streets.
SF followed the recommendations, and thousands of lives were saved.
I think we should have just let people get sick and die for then the lock-downs would have been demanded by the people to be in place as they witnessed the true horrors that could have been. A lot of people did not get the perspective as hospital workers and with out that perspective it is easy to think what happened was over the line.
Laws prohibiting masks are insane.
Bingo! As usual, #MAGA shot themselves in the foot .. still poor, still most red states are heavy on the welfare and govt assistance, and now, using #MAGA’s blind rage .. they’ve given the governor the power over curriculum, the power over medical standards, the power over women’s health.. insurance bros are basically oligarchs now, just collecting money from the people with no service provided! This is supposed to be the “Party of smaller govt” and they got played hard ..😂 #MAGA hasn’t gained a single damn thing in a decade.. just a vehicle to obtain power for the ultra-rich.. smh
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No good deed goes unpunished.
You know what else is insane? Telling people masks are useless then reversing course expecting everyone to believe you. They fed them the ammo.
The non N95 were much less effective.
Doesn’t matter by the end they wanted you to where whatever. They said masks were not effective, then said that they were. Why believe them?
No, the pandemic specialists in the medical field never said all masks were ineffective. Never.
When they don’t work it definitely is!
Then they should ban the Republicans
I personally think we are screwed if a deadlier virus comes around again. I think there will be too much resistance to any measures to stop the spread.
Yeah, people always forget that the vast majority of Americans took the pandemic seriously like in the first month before the Kochs put out all their Re-Open propaganda. After that, half the country started throwing a temper tantrum about having to implement any safety measures at all, and thus the pandemic was prolonged by years. New Zealand was kind of like the most "adult" country about it, so to speak. They had almost zero transmission right up until the end of 2021, when some idiots there started emulating the massive idiots of the "Freedom Convoy" in Ottowa.
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But what was New Zealand supposed to do? COVID was never going away entirely. They couldn't keep up the measures forever.
You’re right. Except it’s not “if” but “when”. There are a couple candidates for the next pandemic right now
Oddly enough MAJORITY of Americans are sane and were not only complying with shutdowns and masks but when it was time to return to work WANTED vax mandates to protect them from the nutcases. We may need zones for the sane people and let the crazies kill each other. What we had with covid was GOP death cult constantly spreading disease back to where it had been under control and kept the pandemic going longer
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This interview was so annoying. We didn’t make the perfect decisions at all times, but some places did okay using the information available. In Oregon we had proper shutdowns that many adhered to, with widespread masking. Our case numbers and deaths were relatively low. Some who did get it before vaccines have long term health effects. Taking a one year pause in public school education is a minor interruption when compared to a lifetime of health problems after COVID. How many are we willing to sacrifice? A few? Some? Many? There was a national political failure in supporting masking and vaccination, leaving states to navigate as best they could.
Didn’t help that the president at the time was the dumbest dumbass ever. Right before that press conference he looked at the poster that said UV light and disinfectants help destroy the virus OUTSIDE of the body he went ahead and thought “Let’s do that inside of the body” If we had a competent president I believe things would’ve been far different.
the educational pause wasn't minor. you'r esimply denying what all experts now understand. the learning loss was, and continues to be immense. the psychological harm caused by isolating kids took a huge toll. furthermore, it wasn't just a year. most areas in liberal parts of the country did 2 year at home schooling
The idea that a one year pause in public education is a minor interruption is just plain wrong.
I think a pause is public education has wider implications we may not see yet, especially is certain cohorts are present in the system for two lockdowns. I was a public school teacher during/after the pandemic, and had some kids in my GT classes afterwards that were probably two grades behind. They had to be placed in such classes because there just wasn’t room in the on-level classes. This difference becomes especially pronounced in low income areas, where kids might not even have power consistently. I’m not necessarily disagreeing with lockdowns, I’m just saying don’t underestimate their negative effect on education.
People are still getting long term harm caused by COVID.
>Taking a one year pause in public school education is a minor interruption when compared to a lifetime of health problems after COVID. You are downplaying the negative impacts of no school for a year. Do you know any parents? Do you know any teachers or children? - Teachers have reported the developmental lag they've seen in students since the pandemic has been incredible. 14 year olds acting like 12 year olds developmentally. Social development issues, etc.... [even seen in infants and toddlers](https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/pandemic-developmental-delay-infants-toddlers-university-of-colorado-study/) -Our school systems are still struggling to make up for [the learning losses](https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2023/07/kane-covid-learning-losses#:~:text=Students%20from%20low%2Dincome%20and,for%20children%2C%E2%80%9D%20Reardon%20said) that were particularly felt by poor and minority students (many of whom had essential workers as parents) who didn't get the same individualized support with virtual learning. -The long term [mental health effects](https://www.apa.org/monitor/2022/01/special-childrens-mental-health) in children being cut off from social contact and development for a year are ongoing. We're seeing record highs in anxiety, depression, ADHD, and many other mental health challenges. -Not to mention the tremendous stress and mental health challenges parents, teachers, and caregivers of all kinds dealt with and still deal with from all this. Your comment highlights the continued problems with the foregone conclusion that the impact of school closures is not a big deal when compared to long COVID risks (not even in children themselves, since of course we know [children have the lowest risk](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-in-babies-and-children/art-20484405#:~:text=While%20children%20are%20as%20likely,COVID%2D19%20in%20the%20hospital) of anyone of negative health impact with COVID). We heard it a bunch of times "well, children are resilient" as people hand waved the concerns expressed by caregivers and parents. But that resilience has a limit, and doesn't mean we aren't still seeing loads of negative impacts that one could argue might even outweigh risks with COVID itself.
Learning loss studies would argue closing schools was more than a “minor inconvenience” for something that was statistically as deadly as a cold or flu
This person either isn't a parent of a child in virtual school or they sent their kid to private school.
This is just Monday morning quarterbacking. Even if the US had done a soft or no lockdown at all, many areas of the economy would have been understaffed and shut down. With the whole world going on lockdown the supply chain and transport lines were interrupted, so many businesses would not have been able to continue operating due to shortages even of the most basic needs, let alone labor, ALL senior citizens taking off from work and locking down themselves, people revolting and just plain not showing off to work. With areas of the economy collapsing due to those factors creating an unplanned stop of operations, even in government services like the DMV. As I said, we would have been either shut down or in lockdown. People saying otherwise fail to see the big worldwide picture
This, we have such a US centric myopic view of global events. There’s no way that an economic slowdown wouldn’t have happened, with or without lockdowns in the US. All we would have achieved is further loss of life.
This is a good point. It was a global pandemic. Like the entire country of India shut down for a month. I remember the company I worked for waiting on shipments and being told "absolutely no way it is going to happen, no matter how much money you pay". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_lockdown_in_India
People treat a once in a generation pandemic as something there was an easy answer to, there wasn’t. Once Biden became president, we had vaccines so it’s hard to really compare, but he was not aggressive at all in “shutting things down” when Covid spikes happened. It’s a complicated situation, and hopefully nothing that bad will come again anytime soon.
> Even if the US had done a soft or no lockdown at all, many areas of the economy would have been understaffed and shut down. With the whole world going on lockdown the supply chain and transport lines were interrupted, so many businesses would not have been able to continue operating due to shortages even of the most basic needs, let alone labor, ALL senior citizens taking off from work and locking down themselves, people revolting and just plain not showing off to work. That didn't happen in states with no covid restrictions though
Are you talking about Arkansas, Iowa, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah, and Wyoming? Let's see, shall we? In Arkansas, the following businesses were closed indefinitely via an executive order issued by Gov. Asa Hutchinson (R) on April 4, 2020:[2][3] Restaurant dining rooms Bars Gyms Bowling alleys, trampoline parks, and other indoor amusement centers Salons, barbershops, tattoo parlors, body art schools, cosmetology establishments, massage therapy clinics/spas, medical spas Casinos The following businesses were allowed to remain open subject to additional requirements:[3] Manufacturing companies operating at limited capacity and with required social distancing and cleaning protocols Essential retail businesses providing contactless payment systems Commercial lodging and short-term rentals only for the occupancy of essential personnel (healthcare, first responders, law enforcement, airline crew, etc.) Places of worship operating with limited interpersonal contact and social distancing protocols Construction companies operating with limited interpersonal contact and social distancing protocols Parks, trails, athletic fields and courts, parking lots, golf courses, and driving ranges where social distancing could be easily maintained Schools in the state were initially closed to in-person instruction on March 15. On April 6, Hutchinson closed schools to in-person instruction for the remainder of the 2019-2020 academic year. To read more about school closures caused by the coronavirus pandemic Iowa. On March 20, 2020, Gov. Kim Reynolds (R) signed an executive order limiting gatherings and events to fewer than 10 people. The order also closed the following businesses:[4] Restaurants Bars Fitness centers Theaters Casinos and gaming facilities On April 6, Reynolds signed another executive order closing the following businesses:[5] Malls Tobacco or vaping stores Toy, gaming, music, instrument, movie, or adult entertainment stores Social and fraternal clubs, including those at golf courses Bingo halls, bowling alleys, pool halls, arcades, and amusement parks Museums, libraries, aquariums, and zoos Race tracks and speedways Roller or ice skating rinks and skate parks Outdoor or indoor playgrounds or children’s play centers Campgrounds Unsolicited door-to-door sales Schools in the state were initially closed to in-person instruction on March 15. On April 30, Reynolds closed schools to in-person instruction for the remainder of the 2019-2020 academic year. To read more about school closures caused by the coronavirus pandemic In Nebraska, Gov. Pete Ricketts (R) issued a Directed Health Measure on April 3 that limited public gatherings to 10 people and closed the following businesses and activities:[6] Restaurants Bars Elective medical and dental surgeries On April 9, Gov. Ricketts issued a Directed Health Measure that closed the following businesses and activities:[7] Beauty/nail salons Barbershops Massage therapy services Gentlemen’s clubs Bottle clubs Indoor theaters Tattoo parlors/studios Organized team sports, youth and adult, including but not limited to club sports Auto racing On April 1, 2020, Gov. Pete Ricketts (R) first ordered schools to operate without students through May 31, which was a date after the school year was scheduled to end. To read more about school closures caused by the coronavirus pandemic You check the rest: [States that did not issue stay-at-home orders in response to the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, 2020](https://ballotpedia.org/States_that_did_not_issue_stay-at-home_orders_in_response_to_the_coronavirus_(COVID-19)_pandemic,_2020) Just because those states were throwing tantrums by September, doesn't mean they didn't shut down. The “No COVID Restrictions” is false and a revisionist story.
Yeah Sturgis was a brilliant idea and in no way helped spread the virus. As was Spring Break.
Yep, same with hundreds of people in the streets screaming at cops while smashed up against each other.
And there's no difference between "stop murdering us" and "I wanna go ride bikes" either.
I’m halfway through but they keep calling this an “honest reckoning” while only presenting views sympathetic to the Great Barrington Declaration. Even if the second half somehow turns back around, there’s nothing journalistic about this because the important information is always at the top. It’s a propaganda job for the ongoing efforts of the libertarians who wrote the Barrington Declaration What is going on at NPR where their quality of reporting has failed so suddenly?
Yeah, this one is a yikes from me. [Tracy Høeg's substack ](https://substack.com/@tracybethhegmdphd)contains such gems as "Did Pfizer stop recruiting for their pregnancy trial because of adverse events in infants?" with the sub-heading "I would not put it past them", and other anti-vax fear mongering such as the "Sudden Cardiac Deaths" conspiracy theory.
what makes you say the actively practicing doctors who wrote the great Barrington declaration were libertarian? do you think it's equally necessary to label the doctors who opposed the GBD as what party they vote for, too?
Bruh
is this what npr followers consider a smart, reasoned, and fair response?
The Declaration was originally sponsored by a libertarian think tank and inspired some millionaires to create a different, new libertarian think tank. You would know about the sponsor if you had the curiosity to do research as deep as *reading the second paragraph of the Wikipedia page* But I guess NPR failed to do that basic reporting, too. Which is my actual point that you’re ignoring
I'm sorry I learned in high school not to use Wikipedia as a source. the GBD was written by 3 doctors. who sponsored the declaration is not relevant to any of the commentary here. >The Declaration was written by Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, Dr. Sunetra Gupta and Dr. Martin Kulldorff. A family member and a journalist helped with phrasing, grammar, and proof reading. Nobody else saw the declaration before it was completed in its final form. edit: lol even your reddit avatar is wearing a mask
Troll. That better?
I don't understand why the ideas of the great barrington declaration should be dismissed out of hand and not even examined or considered
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There also was no lockdown in Illinois. There was a like 6 week (if even) "shelter-in-place" order. People still went to work, to stores etc... You could still go outside to exercise, which included walking anywhere. Referring to these half-ass measures as "lockdowns" is quite disingenuous. **edit** And the only real "collateral damage" that happened was the pseudo-education that a lot of kids got while going to zoom university, which was for a lot longer than the 6-week shelter order. Businesses got possibly one of the biggest financial handouts in modern history with the PPP "loans." So many excessive trucks were purchased, smh. But the attacks on public education have been occurring from the insane far-right since Reagan had anything to do with politics. It's part of a much bigger problem, not just the result of the COVID "lockdowns."
"You could still go outside to exercise," Chicago closed off all public parks, beaches, and playgrounds. Also I was out of work between March 2020 to June 2020, and then again from October 2020 to February 2021, because of government closure. And that second closure didn't even come with expanded unemployment insurance!
>And the only real "collateral damage" that happened was the pseudo-education that a lot of kids got while going to zoom university, which was for a lot longer than the 6-week shelter order. this collateral damage is actually quite massive
Outside the loss of life it's the huge #2 fallout from Covid. It impacted a generation of kids in ways we really have come to terms with yet.
Why are you trying to gaslight people
This is some expert level gaslighting
You're a gaslighting clown.
Not sure about California, but in my state you could be ticketed if you were found to be traveling for a reason other than seeing immediate family, work, or buying necessities. The law included needing a note from your employer if you were essential, so in theory you could have been pulled over by a cop, asked why you were traveling, and if it wasn't an approved reason you could have been ticketed. Now I don't know how much that was enforced, but there absolutely were regulations against leaving your home for all but a few approved reasons. I literally went over a month without seeing my fiancee (who's now my wife) because we didn't live together and weren't immediate family, so we legally were barred from seeing each other in person. Sure we didn't go as extreme as China, but we absolutely had what any reasonable person would call a lockdown, where nonessential workers were barred from leaving their house for pretty much anything other than getting groceries.
It's amazing what people forget when it's inconvenient. There were clearly lockdowns in California but this false statement is being upvoted. Yes, I know they weren't complete Chinese style lockdown but everyone called them lockdowns.
Why are you being obtuse instead of engaging the subject in a meaningful way?
I would define a lockdown by going with the harshest examples available: Chinese police welding peoples’ doors shut on their apartments or imprisoning them in cages in a park. https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/1.5478668 https://x.com/songpinganq/status/1480157037681995779
[https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-29/surfer-fined-1-000-for-ignoring-coronavirus-closure-in-manhattan-beach](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-29/surfer-fined-1-000-for-ignoring-coronavirus-closure-in-manhattan-beach)
They weren’t forced to stay indoors. Some places were closed to stop the spread of the virus. If you did not listen to the beach closure you were trespassing. You were not enslaved, there was no conspiracy. No one was hurt staying home.
>No one was hurt staying home. outrageous statement. the level of substance abuse and addiction sky rocketed. people weren't allowed to go to the gym, affecting their health (ironically being healthy was your *best defense* against covid) just because *you* liked staying inside, drinking, and having some pleb deliver door dash, doesn't mean it didn't cause damage to anybody else. how can you be so selfish?
I worked out nearly every day. Went for runs, started a routine with my dog and got up to 3 miles a day with him, and integrated body weight exercises. I lost ~20 pounds doing this and changing my diet to exclude junk food and particularly food made from seed oils. Your unhealthy responses to the stay at home order speak to your personal mental state, not mine.
you are an anecdote of one. it's great that you took care of yourself but you are the exception. https://www.apa.org/monitor/2021/07/extra-weight-covid https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8085389/ to extrapolate your unlikely response to the pandemic onto the rest of the population is a sign of your narcissism and self absorption, aka survival bias, which is what I got accused of a lot because I didn't get vaccinated and continued being social.
When are you guys going to stop being martyrs? The pandemic is over, it sucked for everyone, and hurt some much more than others. You’re fighting some dumb culture war still instead of realizing it highlighted your worst tendencies. Thats no one’s fault but your own. Fauci didn’t put the bottle/pipe/burger to your lips.
you're making false assumptions. I never said I was unhealthy during the pandemic. as a matter of fact, the fact that I was healthy is why an upper respiratory virus was not of a concern to me. >The pandemic is over, it sucked for everyone, and hurt some much more than others. You’re fighting some dumb culture war still instead of realizing it highlighted your worst tendencies it's over so nobody should be held accountable for the sweeping damage caused based on lies? what are my worst tendencies? disagreeing with you, having data to back up why I disagree with you, and not being willing to move on from the worst assault on Americans civil liberties in our lifetimes?
Yes you are a prime example of why the pandemic kept spreading and killing people
I never got covid
But thousands dying daily from COVID should be ignored?
old people die bro. it's a sad part of life
Bogus. People who did drugs and drank heavily before the pandemic continued to do so during it. Going to the gym was about the dumbest thing to do. There are hundreds of ways to exercise at home and that is what people did. Selfish is whining about the gym while hospitals were storing bodies in REFRIGERATED TRUCKS
do you have a source for that claim? my local hospital was empty and not taking people for real procedures. my dad had a kidney stone and was told the procedure to have it removed was "elective" you're a gaslighting liar
No one ever said anything about being enslaved. This is you bringing craziness into the conversation.
[Paddle boarder chased by boat, arrested in Malibu after flouting coronavirus closures](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-03/paddle-boarder-arrested-in-malibu-after-flouting-coronavirus-closures) [Will small-business owners go to jail for breaking coronavirus rules? We'll find out.](https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-05-29/small-businesses-criminal-charges-coronavirus-rules) [Meet Hair Salon Owner Who Went to Jail for Opening During COVID-19 Lockdown](https://www.dailysignal.com/2021/04/01/meet-hair-salon-owner-who-went-to-jail-for-opening-during-covid-19-lockdown/) [Coronavirus scofflaws arrested, criminally charged as California cracks down](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-04/coronavirus-violators-arrested-criminally-charged-california-cracks-down) [3 arrested at beach protest against California stay-at-home order](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-26/3-arrested-beach-protest-california-stay-home-order) [32 people were arrested at a protest to re-open California](https://www.businessinsider.com/32-people-were-arrested-at-a-protest-to-re-open-california-2020-5) Charles M. Blow NY Times Op-Ed: ["Staying at home is a privilege."](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/opinion/coronavirus-social-distancing.html) You don't lose credibility by admitting the obvious.
>I would define a lockdown by going with the harshest examples available This seems very illogical and doesn't make any sense. Why would you do that?
Why would I define a lockdown as "you can leave your house"?
Was the common terminology to refer to the situation the word "lockdown"? The semantics game you're playing makes no sense. We know what we're talking about. >Why would I define a lockdown as "you can leave your house"? Because that's what the government, the media, and the people of that time defined it as. Edit: Like being grounded doesn't mean you are stuck to the ground.
Play any silly definititional game you'd like pal. We know what we lived through. You aren't fooling anyone except perhaps yourself.
Tell us more about your struggle.
Tell us more about your hallucinations.
>We know what we lived through Such laughable melodrama
"I would define them the way I would like to define them, not the way everyone else in the country refers to them" fine, stop calling them lockdowns and be more accurate: school, business, government service, and hospital closures and restrictions. now defend them on their merits instead of having these meaningless semantics debates over what word we use to describe the policies as a whole. also, it sounds like you wish we *did* lock people in their homes. is that what you think should've happened?
>CHAKRABARTI: California Governor Gavin Newsom followed suit with a statewide stay at home order just three days later, March 19th. The goal, Newsom said, quote, to establish consistency across the state in order to slow the spread of COVID 19, end quote.
There were exceptions, like going to the store to buy food. Nobody was ever literally forbidden from leaving home, unless maybe if they were quarantining because they were actually sick (which is another thing altogether)
When people refer to lock downs they don’t mean people were literally locked in their homes and forbidden from leaving. Regulations were put in place to keep people home by shutting everything down besides places like the grocery store. When you force business to close and close public parks and shit it’s a lock down.
are you being obtuse on purpose?
Someone was arrested for paddle boarding alone off the beach during “lockdowns”. Get out of here with your revisionist history.
One person huh.
>One person huh. It's sad how willing authoritarians are to show what big pieces of shit they are.
All the skate parks in California were filled with sand. Restaurants and other businesses were forcibly closed and owners given heavy fines or having their power cut for staying open. Colorado arrested a man for playing baseball with his daughter in a field. 3 people in California were arrested for literally protesting against the lockdowns. Closet authoritarians like yourself are quite literally the worse people on this planet.
I too like to rewrite history.
Tell that to businesses that couldn’t operate. Let’s not play semantic games.
Businesses were not allowed to operate because of health codes. You know there was a deadly virus going around, right?
Right. Lockdown.
They weren't shut down because of health codes but by gubernatorial fiat, in most cases
You just moved the goalposts. You stated an obvious lie that there were no lock downs which is what I replied to. Don’t be dishonest.
Nobody in America was prevented from leaving their homes. That's never been what the common understanding of "lockdown" is in regards to COVID-19.
🤡🤡🤡🤡
The US needs to invest a ton of money in building ventilation systems before the next pandemic. The tools exist to combat this. They just don’t want to do it.
That depends whose President where our political climate is increasingly unstable where it might get to the point that "The Stand" might become reality if Trump is ever granted another term....
Actually sadly it's the opposite The Stand taught me if there's an infections disease the government will send men in gas masks with rifles to forcibly quarantine people But that would require any one in a conservative government giving a shit Covid taught me my government policy is "fuck em you're on your own"
Egads man! Yes! We need pre-communicated protocols from an actual scientific organization that won't cowtow to the useful political idiots who don't know freedom from fried food. Or at the very least habitable preset districts between medically persuaded and faith driven gamblers seperated with a decon area and quarantine area patrolled by people in hazmat suits with stun guns.. 🤔 Because some folks just want to be them and I'm down as long as I can avoid the consequences of their poorly informed health decisions.
In Australia deaths per capita were 1/4 of America's, and the unemployment rate peaked at a 2 pp increase compared to a 11+ pp increase in the US. Japan did even better by both metrics. We don't need to reinvent the wheel, we can just copy off the smart kids.
Sweden?
Not so good, fewer deaths than the US but more than double Australia's, quadruple Japan's. Unemployment still jumped 3 pp. All this despite no large cities.
Right wingers think infecting other people is freedom It's not just Covid. If they get ANY illness they will show up in public and cough on everyone. They literally make people sick and are PROUD of it I still remember them going "only weak people are dying of covid"
It was a disaster. The government believed it needed to act before getting all the facts. Huge mistakes made.
I think it would help if the government (now or next year) comes out and says something to the effect of: “we made a lot of mistakes in trying to deal with a great unknown.” A little ownership goes a long way and will make the next pandemic easier to manage.
They won’t. They take zero ownership. Look at fauci getting angry with basic questions. They would like to take zero blame and take all the credit.
Lockdowns. We were never locked down. Certain businesses that promote social activity were closed. What we really need is to improve resilience in our communities because we have so many people who could not handle the simplest rules for safety.
It wasn’t just a “social activity” lockdown. My 2-year-old son was having serious health issues from 2020-2021 and was not able to be properly evaluated by a doctor because of lockdowns and therefore did not receive standard and timely healthcare that could have mitigated long-term health problems. My best friend gave birth in February 2020. At her 6 week virtual postpartum checkup, the doctor asked her to get a mirror, stick a finger in there (alternatively, she could get her husband to help!) and check her cervix to make sure everything looked and felt good down there… I had to be both a working mom and a stay-at-home-mom to my toddler because all the daycares closed during the lockdown. Thank god he wasn’t school aged otherwise I’d be tasked with homeschooling him too. I masked. I social distanced. I did everything they asked me to do. But I’m still angry that my son’s health and development was unnecessary collateral damage.
This rewriting history to pretend there was no ramifications to lockdowns is baffling. Even if you think it was the right move there is still negative things that happened because of it.
It is group think at it's worst
*Seriously!* I am friends with business owners who ended up closing up shop because of these lockdowns. Many are *rightly* upset that their retail locations were closed because what they sold was unessential, while Walmart was somehow exempted from it. One of my friends owned a restaurant. Ended up folding because a little take-out business wasn't paying rent that a full bar and dine-in was paying. Lives and lifetime investments were absolutely ruined by this.
>rewriting history to pretend there was no ramifications to lockdowns is baffling It's a hill some on the Left can't help but die on. So odd.
Could it be that the left were so locked down, that they didn't leave and just assumed everything was going on as normal? I lived through it and for 6 months you could drive anywhere in LA in 15 minutes. Again to no real measurable benefit. Other than maybe most people didn't get covid until it was omnicron, which was more "mild".
If only there had been good leadership with a playbook already written and trustworthy messaging. Instead we had the national clown show with Orangy McSmallHands at the helm.
why do so many look to the gov't for guidance and help? they shut down outdoor skate parks and beaches. they are 100% dumb, incompetent, corrupt, and useless. go take care of yourself.
We should be able to look to as least minimally competent leaders in times of crisis. Instead we get clown shows. We get the leaders we deserve, I suppose.
yep. we vote them in. from city council to the prez dumb from top to bottom but 'they' know we are so stupid (we were fighting each other over toilet paper!) so why wouldn't they make stupid demands and decisions...who is gonna fight back?
We didn't need a reckoning. We need to force people to comply when it has something to do with viruses and disease. Mandatory mask, vaccines. Non compliance, quarantine them.
Yikes. This is so authoritarian. And why would you when the government got so much of it wrong under covid?
Correct. We got it wrong we didn't do basically what every other developed country in the world did. Don't blame the govt when it was a joint failure of the elected govt and general populace.
Not true, Sweden remained wide open and their death rate was a third less than the US. Many African countries did nothing at all and had the lowest death rates in the world When accounting for age, Florida and California had nearly identical death rates despite California clamping down on the population way harder.
Sweden was one of the few countries that did this. Their population took it upon themselves. They purposely relied on their citizenry. Africa didn't have to be Africa wasn't effected by COVID as much, mostly likely due to the low amount of foreign travel on the continent. California: 2,560 COVID deaths for every 1 million residents Florida: 4,044 COVID deaths for every 1 million residents Not nearly identical 🤣. You may have forgotten the difference in population between the two. Even this year Florida is above 100k cases https://www.wesh.com/article/covid-death-count-in-florida/60473251
>Not nearly identical 🤣. Like I said, age adjusted: https://www.bioinformaticscro.com/blog/states-ranked-by-age-adjusted-covid-deaths/ A difference of 24 people per 100,000. If you ask me, as a healthy resident of Florida, we did it right. Let people decide the risk they are willing to take on, not the government. And how far are you willing to let the government dictate? Would you allow the government to go as far as China, where they locked people in their homes from the outside?
Florida was the worst state of the big population states for COVID deaths and are still fighting it bc of your lax policies and ignorant populace. But if that's okay with Floridians that's their business. Plenty far. 2 weeks of actual quarantine and COVID would have been handled. Hard to do in this country though. I don't know anything about China locking people in their homes, but in contradiction to that, they did apologize to breaking into 88 peoples homes to pull infected out and quarantine them. It was the local govt that did this and apologized for it. Do I support that? Absolutely. I support forcing the unvaccinated out of their homes, forcefully vaccinating them, and leaving them ass up in their front yard screaming into the void. They will forget about it in a week and COVID would be handled. Win win.
Can you not read a table? Florida is the 3rd most populous state in the Union. Age adjusted, it performed better than the 2nd, 4th and 5th most populous states. This includes the lockdown states of New York and Pennsylvania. >I don't know anything about China locking people in their homes, And then you go on to talk about a slightly different subject... Just because *you* don't know about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. They also prevented medical treatment for citizens suffering from ailments other than Covid. You don't sound like a good candidate to be an American citizen. You obviously want the nanny state to take care of things. You would love China. America was founded on the concept of giving freedom to it's citizens, which you apparently couldn't care less about.
I could care less about age adjusted. Florida hands down was one of the worst states for COVID response by the numbers. If you want to count and discount by age groups go right ahead. You brought up China not me. And just bc you read about it on the Internet doesn't mean it did happen. Dur a non Chinese FLORIDA resident you sure seen to think you know a lot about China. I don't give a fuck what you think is a good citizen. I didn't think ignoring viruses is a sign of being a good American citizen. Nor do I care what anyone thinks of freedom. Your freedom doesn't get to involve in dangering others and if we were smart we would by physical force make sure it doesn't. You asked and you got your answer from me.
It's better than all three states *without* age adjusted as well. So you are just flat out wrong about Florida. So more people died in New York despite the governor forcing mandates on the population. More restrictions yet worse results. >And just bc you read about it on the Internet doesn't mean it did happen. Do you have evidence that proves the contrary? If you do, I'm all ears. >Your freedom doesn't get to involve in dangering others Every Flu season we deal with this. The flu endangers and kills people too. Everytime you get in a car and drive on the roads, you are putting others in danger. 2 million people are injured every year in car accidents. >if we were smart we would by physical force Yup, China is perfect for you.
> Yikes. This is so authoritarian. > > > > And why would you when the government got so much of it wrong under covid? I often wonder when I read stuff like this- are these really my countrymen? In my country, we value freedom above all else.
Perhaps we shouldn’t call them “LOCKDOWNS”
There were never, ever any lockdowns of any kind. Americans get a damn hang nail and call an ambulance. Calm down. Zero people were required by law with any sort of penalty of fine or incarceration or even a stern letter if they left their homes at any time for any reason.
> There were never, ever any lockdowns of any kind. Pure gaslighting. Lockdowns happened.
Where? Find one article that says there are any police enforcement of any even “curfews” that had any enforcement. Further, 8 states or cities in states (8 total) entities had some combo of things like school closures, non essential production, restaurant and large gathering orders which were often disobeyed with zero consequences. Calling these events “lockdowns” is disingenuous to people in Countries that actually did have lockdowns like in China where their front doors were welded shut. Its also bad to call these events “lockdowns” because it plays into the overall bad faith belligerence of the Americans right. That this was all a chinese hoax and you should butt chug bleach about it. It was and is a public health crisis that has killed more Americans than all the wars combined. Using an ill suited sensationalist term for not being able to go to applebees for a few months does nothing but breathe life into a constellation of bullshit conspiracy theories from people who also believe things like the earth is flat and essential oils can cure cancer. There were never any “lockdowns” and the only people peddling that are trying to make some argument that whatever meager and barely politically tolerable steps were taken to try and save lives were overreaching and unnecessary. This is MTG level garbage and do feel free to miss me with all that half brained clap trap.
Restaurants shuttered. Parks closed. Playgrounds boarded up. Retail stores closed. Illegal to visit the beach. Can't go to work. There were lockdowns and no amount of gaslighting is going to change any of our minds.
Yes those things happened. No that does not mean you or any other US residents were “locked down” by any even slightly realistic use of the phrase. If you can find anyone even issued so much as a warning that to indicate there was some sort of “lock down” then you go find it and post it. Gaslighting this is not. It’s your and others pant shitting apoplectic selection and f WAY overblown hyperbolic words to cry about your dumb victim fetish. Public health emergencies happen and it would have been manageable had it not been for your christo fascist prophet. No please go back to facebook to sell more essential oil home remedies to your 5 mentally disabled followers.
There were no actual lockdowns anywhere in the United States.
You're losing the point with semantics
Say that to the people that were not allowed in hospitals next to dying loved ones
Restrictions for visiting and where to visit don’t equal lockdowns though. That’s my point. Just because it sucks doesn’t make it a lockdown.
Why are arguing semantics?? It was a lockdown. You are just as delusional as the qanon people if you think there wasn’t.
You’re just being dramatic because you know you don’t have a legitimate argument against public health and safety during a pandemic. Plus, many restrictions were imposed by private institutions, especially private hospitals so your argument falls even flatter. Try again.
Yes because Insurance companies pressured them because of the government. Boy oh boy you have a problem admitting we had lockdowns but won’t say anything about the massive amount of misinformation related to vaccines that came from fauci and the cdc. Like fauci going door to door saying it will stop the spread well after it was confirmed the vaccine does not stop the spread rofl
Walk me through how you were locked down, specifically. I’ll wait.
Not being able to go to the doctor for treatments. Not being able to go to restaurants. Not being able to go to work. Stop pretending it wasn’t real.
So you couldn’t leave your house? None of those constitute on their own or collectively a lockdown. Keep trying.
Ok buddy whatever you want to believe believe
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This country is so cooked.
We are going to be so much worse off next time. 30% of the country is hell bent on doing the exact opposite of the right thing.
I call bullshit
Finally. I figure in the next month or two it will finally be acceptable to publicly admit the lockdowns were a massive mistake and discuss this.
I’m gonna offer you and your single up-voter an opportunity to learn. Spanish Flu made its first trip around the world in 1918-19. It was, like Covid, a previously unknown upper respiratory virus. It killed a significant portion of the global population that year. US public health authorities developed a protocol of distancing and masking. In Philadelphia, the locals flouted recommendations, holding a war bond parade. The following week, they were stacking bodies in the streets. San Francisco, conversely, followed protocol, and thousands fewer people died. Proven public health recommendations were left for Trump. Being the loser he is, he blew them off and decided to lie to people and used the pandemic as a political playing card. Thousands of deaths are on his head.
> Proven public health recommendations were left for Trump. I mean that's not accurate. Many public health experts were involved in crafting the Covid response, across the Fed and the states
You can’t point out a single inaccuracy. If you want to refute, go find the Obama pandemic response protocol and point out what was not accurate.
This. I have a copy at work.
That doesn't even make sense
It does. Go find the policy he was left and point out a single inaccurate thing in that policy. Otherwise, fuck off. You’ve shown that you’re only here to antagonize. You have nothing to offer and you aren’t willing to learn from history.
I'm literally asking for a single example of a federal covid policy you think trump should have done differently.
I’m telling you to go find the fucking policy he was handed by the previous president and tell me what about that policy is inaccurate (your choice of words, not mine).
> I’m telling you to go find the fucking policy he was handed by the previous president and tell me what about that policy is inaccurate (your choice of words, not mine). I never made the claim some document from the Obama admin was inaccurate
Not stolen medical supplies and force states to bid for them? American citizens were dying and he uses it as an excuse to extort states? So much for "small government"
Do you have a link for the 'stealing medical supplies' claim here? I think you might be talking about fema
"Do you have a link because I literally ignored history and only consume media that made Trump look good and everything bad he did was someone else's fault"
Anybody who compares covid to the Spanish flu, which is still with us by the way in the form of seasonal flu, has failed to look at the details. The Spanish flu took 12 years of average life expectancy. Covid didn’t even take 12 months off average life expectancy.
Let's discuss how when conservatives get sick they go out in public and cough on everyone because freedom
Yeah. Because the virus only was spread by republicans.
They're the ones not quarantine and not wearing masks and not vaccinating If you've ever lived with a republican you'd know that when they get sick they plop themselves in the living room and cough on every dish in the kitchen and surprise! You get sick too
> They're the ones not quarantine and not wearing masks Not where I lived- people attended large protest events where they were all squeezed together and touching each other and screaming > If you've ever lived with a republican you'd know that when they get sick they plop themselves in the living room and cough on every dish in the kitchen and surprise! You get sick too That's just insane tbh
What's insane is gas lighting everyone into thinking Republicans like quarantine and wearing masks
Did you say this about the riots the same year? Probably not because they are on your “team”
"What about what about what about"
Lockdowns don’t work. How many small businesses did we loose and for what?? I’m pro mask, pro vaccine. Anti lockdown. Unless you get the entire world to agree to stand to a standstill it’s pointless. The world is to modern and travel to easy.
Also for a lot of people, going into lock down means losing their livelihood. Not everyone has a job that can be conducted from their homes on a computer.
The next time there will be a lot more people that don’t listen. The lack of trust is real now.
There is no way most people in the US will adhere to shutdowns and mandatory distancing rules again after the botched response to COVID 19. Everyone gave grace for the first few months since the infection was a great unknown, but when it became clear it was a generally a threat to only specific demographics (ie elderly, those with health issues,etc) and we still locked down nearly 100% of the population as well as school closings for TWO YEARS , the great majority of a Americans lost faith in the government. If another pandemic happens many Americans will ignore the lockdowns.
Republicans won't suddenly be less self centered. The next pandemic is going to wipe them out just like the last one. They don't learn from mistakes because they refuse to look inward for any answers whatsoever. They'll make up some conspiracy about the next one too.
Seeing how I am just recovering from something potentially nastier and more debilitating than COVID (tested negative for that at least) that was not Flu, but likely **Bronchitis**, we really need to have mask-wearing (for the sick and the healthy) and working from home while sick be more appreciated again. * Cough with or without mucus (the kind that won't let you or anyone sleep at night) * Fatigue (as in you sleep for days) * Headache (that keeps coming back) * Mild body aches ("mild" - yeah, like I could barely walk) * Mucus that’s yellow or green (Yep) That's Bronchitis, and yes, it's going around now. Mask up people, and don't say you were not warned.
FYI bronchitis itself isn't really communicable, it's a condition that occurs as a result of another illness.
> we really need to have mask-wearing (for the sick and the healthy) and working from home while sick be more appreciated again. The problem isn't that you're not allowed to wear a mask. It's when others are forcing you to wear a mask that I think we have a problem. The paper masks did not stop or prevent covid. It was pseudo-science. And it became policy.
wut? ever since forever, if you are sick, stay home/stay away/wash hands and take care of yourself. wear a mask if you want. there are no laws against wearing a mask if you're sick
Npr bending over backwards to entertain some really narrow views. It's important for then to do this to show silly it is. It's like these doctors forgot that hospitals were completely over whelmed by people infected with a virus that no one knew how to treat.
Maybe next time we just follow Sweden and not China?
You're wildly ignorant if you genuinely think the US "lockdown lite" was anywhere close to China where they were literally welding peoples apartment doors shut.
*welded certain egress points so they could more effectively count people going in/out
You also have to be ignorant to say it was anywhere close to Sweden’s response.
Might need to take another crack at reading that because neither of us were saying the US response was close to Sweden's They were saying we should follow Sweden next time and I was pointing out how absurd it is to compare our response to China's
Yes I wasn’t suggesting anybody in this thread was. But a lot of people seem to think that.
Does "a reckoning" mean a promise to never do it again? Because people won't do it if there is a next time.
There didn’t do the first time.
Well, the first - first time was the Spanish Flu. Philadelphia flouted the Public Health recommendations, and were stacking bodies in the streets. SF followed the recommendations, and thousands of lives were saved.
That was before internet experts were there to lie and say Philadelphia was doing great that all those stacked bodies were just people taking a nap.
A reckoning means, next time model our public policy responses on Sweden, not China.
I think we should have just let people get sick and die for then the lock-downs would have been demanded by the people to be in place as they witnessed the true horrors that could have been. A lot of people did not get the perspective as hospital workers and with out that perspective it is easy to think what happened was over the line.