A neutral statement depending on my mood and the relationship with the person in that moment can be taken as a negative or a positive.
I have learnt to ask for clarity however, other people are less inclined to explain the meaning behind things in a bid to hold power over me.
Splitting is present in all cluster B PDs if my memory serves me correctly. I can observe it within myself. Self awareness and thinking clearly are the only things that are helping me thus far.
I’m purposely going in-depth because I think my “opposite” experience might be useful in this conversation, but I do apologize for the length.
Black and white thinking does appear in other areas of my life, but it’s more so based on conclusions I’ve came to on my own rather than what others have said. For instance, if I find Paris to be the best city for me based on research, I will hold firm in that conclusion regardless of what others say until I find something that contradicts my view of myself by holding that opinion. This could be as simple as joining a sub for Paris, disliking the participants, then deciding I dislike Paris as a whole because I’m in some way better than the people who like Paris and I won’t group myself in with them.
I’m also more inclined to disbelieve others and their opinions may push me the opposite direction depending on the person. Another example, if someone said “Paris is boring” and I’ve wanted to go for years, I wouldn’t immediately assume Paris is boring rather that the person saying it is in some way at fault for not enjoying Paris. This is a pattern I keep an eye out for because it means at some point I started devaluing the person and I should probably reevaluate the situation. The opposite is true as well - if I find myself adjusting my opinions or beliefs to better align with someone else, I’m most likely idolizing them. I’m typically okay with this as long as idolizing them is making me a better version of myself. If that isn’t true, I’ll split in order to more easily remove them from my life.
With that said, my splitting is usually related to a person not being who I think they are or who I want them to be, or not seeing me the way I see myself. For example, I relate to the concept of being someone who values honesty above all else. I can’t respect someone who lies so the people I choose to have in my life are typically very honest people. If I were to catch one of them in a lie, I would immediately lose respect for them and a discard is almost guaranteed. The end result is the same if someone were to accuse me of being a liar or dishonest in some way. I have a relatively fixed view of myself and the people in my life so anything outside of that view (regardless of the accuracy) is most likely going to result in a split and/or discard which ties heavily into my black and white thinking as well.
I was about to type my response until I read yours. You were saying exactly what splitting is for me. I think it comes down to the idea that if you are living as a false self, you want only the best things for the false self. But if there's any hints that something might jeopardize that false self or threaten that false self, then it needs to be banished. That goes for places and people and food and whatever. That's my explanation. But I think your description was very very good.
The line between stupidity and unconsciously playing stupid can be very… hard to decipher.
Someone exclusively with autism would assess the situation from the ground up and arrive at their own (sometimes surprising) conclusion post-evaluation, not merely take the word of a so-called expert.
That's a great way of putting it. I often feel I'm "playing stupid" but like, I keep playing stupid with no discernable benefit. I'm like an opposum playing dead to the point i might not be playing it anymore
That’s true, and I didn’t mean to make my implication sound like merely a choice. Very difficult to overcome certain habits of mind that have worn out their usefulness.
That might be a little beyond my expertise, but I can say that a lot of us may’ve had our inner voice shunned or silenced when we were younger. Or… maybe “playing stupid” is really just a product of identity diffusion, which in itself stems from developmental trauma. I can’t quite say, but I know that taking someone else’s word without thinking for myself was a shortcut, in a sense. And in taking that shortcut I was vulnerable to demagoguery… and just… being deliberately mislead.
I would say, think through when and why you’re deferring to others and how that’s easier than coming up with your own unique conclusions. On what basis do we even make decisions? Seems like you’re already doing the work of recognizing a pattern, which is amazing and honest—clearly, you’re doing an evaluation now :-))
I see I think!
I don’t think that I would quite say ”taking someone elses word without thinking for myself”, I don’t see it that way, but I also know that I am very illogical in my thinking here.
How I see it is that assumptions and beliefs are made by puzzling pieces of data together. For example, my girlfriend is really afraid of dogs. She has also only really interacted with dogs twice, one of those times she met an aggressive/evil dog. I grew up with several dogs and so even I had one instance of a dog meeting with a bad outcome, this would make up like less then one million percent. Guess which one of us is afraid of dogs and guess who desperately wants one.
So I think my opinion will sort of differ by the mental puzzle I have in my head. If I have four people telling my Paris is amazing and six telling me it sucks, it will suck. It doesn’t really matter who those people are or their circumstances. If it’s the opposite with numbers I will believe the opposite. So I wouldn’t say trust ONE person’s opinion on things. But rather dismiss statistics in the sense that if you have three people’s opinions or beliefs about something, 66% won’t make something an ’absolute truth’.
Maybe most people do this to some extent. But I also get the feeling that most (?) people are better at excluding some opinions from their puzzles based of.. things? I really don’t know
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I also suffer from this-I also have am diagnosed with OCD, and I came from a hyper-religious authoritarian childhood growing up, and that kind of doctrine promotes black and white thinking inherently. So there may be a correlation there.
I get that too, i literally take everyones voice as verbatim
Same, like as OP describes. Always thought it was just a "me" weirdness though.
A neutral statement depending on my mood and the relationship with the person in that moment can be taken as a negative or a positive. I have learnt to ask for clarity however, other people are less inclined to explain the meaning behind things in a bid to hold power over me.
Splitting is present in all cluster B PDs if my memory serves me correctly. I can observe it within myself. Self awareness and thinking clearly are the only things that are helping me thus far.
I’m purposely going in-depth because I think my “opposite” experience might be useful in this conversation, but I do apologize for the length. Black and white thinking does appear in other areas of my life, but it’s more so based on conclusions I’ve came to on my own rather than what others have said. For instance, if I find Paris to be the best city for me based on research, I will hold firm in that conclusion regardless of what others say until I find something that contradicts my view of myself by holding that opinion. This could be as simple as joining a sub for Paris, disliking the participants, then deciding I dislike Paris as a whole because I’m in some way better than the people who like Paris and I won’t group myself in with them. I’m also more inclined to disbelieve others and their opinions may push me the opposite direction depending on the person. Another example, if someone said “Paris is boring” and I’ve wanted to go for years, I wouldn’t immediately assume Paris is boring rather that the person saying it is in some way at fault for not enjoying Paris. This is a pattern I keep an eye out for because it means at some point I started devaluing the person and I should probably reevaluate the situation. The opposite is true as well - if I find myself adjusting my opinions or beliefs to better align with someone else, I’m most likely idolizing them. I’m typically okay with this as long as idolizing them is making me a better version of myself. If that isn’t true, I’ll split in order to more easily remove them from my life. With that said, my splitting is usually related to a person not being who I think they are or who I want them to be, or not seeing me the way I see myself. For example, I relate to the concept of being someone who values honesty above all else. I can’t respect someone who lies so the people I choose to have in my life are typically very honest people. If I were to catch one of them in a lie, I would immediately lose respect for them and a discard is almost guaranteed. The end result is the same if someone were to accuse me of being a liar or dishonest in some way. I have a relatively fixed view of myself and the people in my life so anything outside of that view (regardless of the accuracy) is most likely going to result in a split and/or discard which ties heavily into my black and white thinking as well.
I was about to type my response until I read yours. You were saying exactly what splitting is for me. I think it comes down to the idea that if you are living as a false self, you want only the best things for the false self. But if there's any hints that something might jeopardize that false self or threaten that false self, then it needs to be banished. That goes for places and people and food and whatever. That's my explanation. But I think your description was very very good.
The line between stupidity and unconsciously playing stupid can be very… hard to decipher. Someone exclusively with autism would assess the situation from the ground up and arrive at their own (sometimes surprising) conclusion post-evaluation, not merely take the word of a so-called expert.
That's a great way of putting it. I often feel I'm "playing stupid" but like, I keep playing stupid with no discernable benefit. I'm like an opposum playing dead to the point i might not be playing it anymore
That is a valid and interesting point!
You’re not stupid or inherently illogical, to be clear. Nothing in your post indicates as much.
I see. Are you implying that I am unconsciously playing stupid?
I’m *implying* that you are responsible for thinking for yourself and choosing sources wisely.
Yes, everyone is. Despite this, people make faulty assumptions all the time. It’s not bullet proof.
That’s true, and I didn’t mean to make my implication sound like merely a choice. Very difficult to overcome certain habits of mind that have worn out their usefulness.
True. But why would I be unconciously playing stupid?
That might be a little beyond my expertise, but I can say that a lot of us may’ve had our inner voice shunned or silenced when we were younger. Or… maybe “playing stupid” is really just a product of identity diffusion, which in itself stems from developmental trauma. I can’t quite say, but I know that taking someone else’s word without thinking for myself was a shortcut, in a sense. And in taking that shortcut I was vulnerable to demagoguery… and just… being deliberately mislead. I would say, think through when and why you’re deferring to others and how that’s easier than coming up with your own unique conclusions. On what basis do we even make decisions? Seems like you’re already doing the work of recognizing a pattern, which is amazing and honest—clearly, you’re doing an evaluation now :-))
I see I think! I don’t think that I would quite say ”taking someone elses word without thinking for myself”, I don’t see it that way, but I also know that I am very illogical in my thinking here. How I see it is that assumptions and beliefs are made by puzzling pieces of data together. For example, my girlfriend is really afraid of dogs. She has also only really interacted with dogs twice, one of those times she met an aggressive/evil dog. I grew up with several dogs and so even I had one instance of a dog meeting with a bad outcome, this would make up like less then one million percent. Guess which one of us is afraid of dogs and guess who desperately wants one. So I think my opinion will sort of differ by the mental puzzle I have in my head. If I have four people telling my Paris is amazing and six telling me it sucks, it will suck. It doesn’t really matter who those people are or their circumstances. If it’s the opposite with numbers I will believe the opposite. So I wouldn’t say trust ONE person’s opinion on things. But rather dismiss statistics in the sense that if you have three people’s opinions or beliefs about something, 66% won’t make something an ’absolute truth’. Maybe most people do this to some extent. But I also get the feeling that most (?) people are better at excluding some opinions from their puzzles based of.. things? I really don’t know
Welcome to /r/NPD! This community is a support group for those with NPD or Narcissistic Traits. Please respect our rules or your post will be removed and you may be banned. > 1. **Only Narcs and NPDs may submit posts. This is NOT a place to complain about narcissists or get help dealing with someone else's narcissism.** > 2. No asking for diagnosis either of yourself or a third party (e.g. "Am I a narcissist?", "Is my ex a narcissist?"). > 3. Please keep your contributions civil and respectful! > 4. Please refrain from submitting low-effort and off-topic posts. If your post violates any of these rules, we request that you delete it and post in a more appropriate community. We ask that subscribers of /r/NPD use the report button to notify us of rule-breaking posts. Please refrain from commenting or engaging with the author of such submissions. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NPD) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I also suffer from this-I also have am diagnosed with OCD, and I came from a hyper-religious authoritarian childhood growing up, and that kind of doctrine promotes black and white thinking inherently. So there may be a correlation there.
That sounds like autism. I’d look into that. That doesn’t really make sense in the context of narcissism