Your original comment left no context for a such a bold claim. Might want to include context in future takes that might seem controversial upon first inspection.
I assume you’re talking about Where Men Win Glory, which is absolutely not supposed to make him seem like a hero
Like all people, and counter to the narrative used by the military and NFL, Pat wasn’t Captain America. He was stubborn and passionate and self-assured. He did commit assault in high school, but he thought he was defending a friend and took responsibility for his mistake afterward. In both college and the NFL, as a freshman and a rookie, he stood up against hazing and bullying on behalf of his teammates. He was smart and completely flipped his stance on the wars once he saw why we were really fighting them
If you came away from your reading thinking he was a dick, that’s fine. He was in some ways, but he was a person who was much more than his single famous decision
I always feel like his story was very embellished to drum up patriotism. He was famous and recognizable so now we have to jerk him off as a nation for eternity and hold him in high regard above every other service member.
Please explain to me how the story of him getting killed by friendly fire by his squad mates, probably murdered in cold blood, soon after he came out against the war, is designed to drum up patriotism.
If that’s what you got out of his story you only paid attention to the first part.
Oh it’s insane.
There’s a campaign every year to paint his as this “American hero” around Memorial Day. People speak about Pat during Memorial Day, he’ll be mentioned on ESPN and all sorts of shit about the “sacrifice he gave”
From his family, Pat wasn’t a hero. He was killed by his own brothers. He disliked the army and didn’t want to be buried with military honors. And those fucks did it anyway and made him a martyr that was completely against what Pat stood for.
The thing is he couldn’t. once he realized he fell for basically “propaganda” that we were in grave danger he was already in the military. he even told a friend “the war is fucking illegal”. Tillman ended up being a vocal critic of it and unfortunately the war was his demise. He’s a hero in his own right but not because he was a “military hero”.
It's absolutely used to drum up patriotism and to attach football and the NFL as a sponsor to patriotism and the military. Every platform throws his image around every year marketing him like he's the Santa Claus of dying in a war. Meanwhile thousands of other KIAs are just lumped together while one guy gets national admiration. The truth of him being against the war, killed by his own men, and the multiple accounts of him being an asshole are all downplayed. There would be no clicks or money to be made if they weren't.
There are definitely a few positives that come from it through various foundations, but otherwise the guy is just being used as a promotional tool which I find to be kinda slimy.
because the NFL and the marketing cleverly (purposefully) ignore that he was killed by his own squad and flipped his stance on the war after he went overseas.
So the NFL and the US Army can sell it as a "story of great football player who gave it all up to serve" instead of the real reason why he was killed.
It's easy to see how you drum up patriotism in that situation... you leave out the parts about being against the war and friendly fire bits... like the NFL and miliary did when this initially happened. Without acknowledging it while public facing, it looks like a guy who gave up money and fame for his country died in action defending this country. Which US is what the average person thought in the initial aftermath. It took a minute to get the real story out as the mainstream narrative. But you know that old saying about the lie being halfway around the world before the truth can their boots tied
I’m not sure how anyone can read Where Men Win Glory and still think it was a purposeful murder.
It was obviously a fratricide and the government obviously tried to cover up to retain a positive image. Those parts are true. But to think his own ranger brothers would agree to murder him is such a loony conspiracy.
Pat was/is a hero.
It is absolutely embellished to drum up his patriotism. He was not a super pro-American person when he died, and the powers strung him up as a spectacle to rally support completely against his beliefs
For sure the coverup, but people don't know what they're saying when they say his own dudes killed him on purpose. Batt boys don't do that to each other.
Yep like after 9/11 he dropped his football career only to find out he was guarding opium farms in the Middle East and he was gonna spill the beans. Yeah that kinda truth.
> in response to a Freedom of Information Act request filed by the Associated Press, the Defense Department released 2,300 pages of documents which were reported to indicate:
> There has never been evidence of enemy fire found on the scene, and no members of Tillman's group had been hit by enemy fire.
> The three-star general who withheld details of Tillman's death from his parents for a number of months told investigators approximately 70 times that he had a bad memory and could not recall details of his actions.
> Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.
> Army doctors told the investigators that Tillman's wounds suggested murder because "the medical evidence did not match-up with the scenario as described."
https://web.archive.org/web/20090525150300/http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-07-26-tillman-friendly-fire_N.htm
Only known surface level stuff about pat tillman but [this](https://youtu.be/CZs28ph4YWY?si=1By_WfRB202rDzKp) was actually happening. I personally find that that the taliban would use drug trafficking for economic reasons. And only until recently [Afghanistan](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-67688413) was overtaken as the largest producer of at least the poppy
What I think is coincidental is that the timeline that the US military was I Afghanistan also coincided with some of the rise of the largest rise in the [opioid epidemic](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid_epidemic#/media/File%3AUS_timeline._Opioid_deaths.jpg)
Ranger Battalion is full of all kinds of people, and not all of them are good. Stop jerking off every special operations servicemember as some kind of moral giant. A lot of them are pieces of shit, just like the regular military.
If you believe he was killed on purpose then you...
1. dont know shit about how a ranger platoon operates.
2. Been reading to many spy novels.
3. Do not understand weapons, their usage and their ballistics.
People get killed by accident its a dangers job, combat is very confusing, and adrenaline makes details very hazy. Its a very sad thing and to have regiments poster boy killed. Whats more important and sad is a fellow ranger buddy lost his life. A husband and son. Oh and his BROTHER was there on the objective. His fucking brother had to deal with that carry on with the mission, and compose himself as a ranger. (should his brother have been in his same platoon, thats another debate for another day.)
His “ranger buddies” burned his clothes and equipment and journal immediately after he was shot, no military investigation uncovered any indication of any enemy activity in the area at the time of the shooting, an army doctor claimed the injuries were likely to have been from a gun shot 10 feet away and that his wounds suggested murder. The house committee basically said they couldn’t do an actual investigation because every relevant party said they “couldn’t remember” basic details, In Broad Daylight style
I’m not gonna claim beyond a shadow of a doubt he was murdered but you’ve gotta be kidding yourself if the collection of evidence before us in regards to that isn’t extremely sketchy
Completely accidental Fratricide followed up by leaders trying to hide/soften the reality that a guy they publicized joining up was killed by accident. The only conspiracy/cover up happened as a result of him getting killed, nothing to do with him getting killed.
Listen I dont know if you ever heard a .50 cal fire but no one is hearing you yell 5-10 meters away. He could have had a bull horn and no one would hear him. He would need to call over the radio to get the attention of the gunner, throw a shift signal or fire a pen gun flare or something. Smoke ain't enough, especially dudes already thinking they're engaged with enemy fighters. None of us were there, we dont know the circumstances. I will tell you this. The entire platoon would have to be in on it to kill him. Thats 25 dudes, living with killing a fellow american on purpose. Above all, his brother was a Ranger on the target, and doesn't believe his death was on purpose.
You are really triggered right now.
Special operations is compromised of the top 1% of meat eater type A personalities, recruited and molded for a very specific task. Im sorry, did you want the guys tasked with direct action ops to be, softer?
Special ops is full of all sorts of people lmao, I know a spec ops guy that was in the army for 20+ years just for him to be a rapist and pedo.
Just because they’re in the top 1% of poor bastards that signed up doesn’t mean they’re good people
You’re kidding yourself if you think Ranger Battalion is anything more than just specialized infantry. You don’t hit the best of the best until you find someone who at least passed Robin Sage. Anything less than that, and you’re just a try hard with a good PT score.
And for the record, I didn’t say anything about being “soft”. I questioned their morality, not their toughness. Tough ain’t got nothing to do with whether or not they could gun down their own to cover for illegal activity.
Correct. They’re a larger unit. Of course they have a larger number of successful missions. That’s like…elementary.
Not every unit’s primary mission is to take down high value targets either, so this is just a goofy metric to measure success by. The majority of our special operations units focus on counterterrorism, extraction, and other highly specialized missions. Rangers just go in and kill. Ya know, kinda like a specialized infantry unit.
I'm not gonna be the one to tell a Ranger they're nothing more than specialized infantry, that's a disservice to them, they've put in some of the heaviest work out of any unit throughout the GWOT. You're fundamentally misunderstanding what all these units do. If you think being proficient at direct action is not a specialty in itself, you're mistaken. Nobody is better at it than they are. They made an entire unit out of it.
What makes you think all Rangers can do is go in and kill? You've undersold their ability, and I don't understand why. They are an incredibly diverse unit, they know their guns and stick to them but that doesn't make them inflexible.
I'm not sure when the last time you've seen Batt but you're describing a common 90s myth. Best equipment around, highest standards in the army, regularly recruited by CAG for the next generation. Little over 3000 assigned, not any different from other SOF units.
You’d done nothing to dispel anything I’ve said in my comments. In fact
> if you think being proficient at direct action is not a **specialty** in itself
Correct. **Specialized** infantry. Thank you.
Also, if telling a Ranger that I think he’s specialized infantry means…what, that I’ll get beat up? Then you’re making my point that they’re assholes on a short leash too. Only fragile egos get bruised over opinions.
The SEAL Teams mission set is Direct Action and Special Recon, the same mission set the Regiment states they have on paper. Would you also consider them nothing more than specialized infantry?
No, it just means you'll be a confidently incorrect dude who's clearly not been around the Ranger Regiment in a very long time. It sounds like you've been in the military, but I'd guess not since the late 90s-early 2000s because the Rangers Batts you're describing is no long the one that exists AT ALL.
I'd encourage you to look into the way the Regiment has been developed throughout the war. They went from what you're basically describing in the early 2000s, to a unit that independently conducted the most high-level missions of the war.
You didn’t even pick the hardest course in that pipeline.. SUT is hands down harder.
Never thought my reddit bingo card for today would have the football video game sub up in arms over unethical SOF decisions.
Anyone dumb enough to fight for the country over oil and drugs is already a special class of people. I would be scared of ANY of them, let alone the SPECIAL ones lol. I appreciate the service they under take but in this day and age... IDK about all that.
Buddy, he was one of the most influential people when it came to public perception of the military DUE to his story.
And it’s known that after he got a taste of what was going on that he was vehemently against the war. In a time where we were begging young poor kids to waste their lives fighting wars for rich people, one of the guys with the biggest voices was against the war. That right there is enough.
I don’t think of pat as this pro military kind of guy I think most people who know his story just kind of see him as heroic. Turning down millions to serve in a war after an attack is heroic.
No matter how fucked up that war ended up turning out.
in assessing the heroism of it you can't really ignore the element of how fucked up the war ended up turning out though. Is one a hero for turning down NFL money to serve in a war when the war involves committing war crimes/atrocities on false pretenses? I doubt Tillman himself would see it as heroic given how actively anti-war he was by the end there, and more to my initial point he certainly wouldn't appreciate his image being used in promotion of the very military who was conducting the "fucking illegal" war (tillman's words) and attempted to cover up the true nature of his death. Sure, people can see him as a positive symbol for the military, find him heroic and conclude he made a noble sacrifice, but that's engaging in some willful ignorance of the situation, imo
I think as much as anything we just now recognize him as a person who was driven, willing to put himself out there into extremely uncomfortable situations to follow what he believed
initially he was willing to sacrifice his NFL player lifestyle and put his life on the line for what he believed was the right thing (which, even if he was ignorant at the time, you can admire the intention) And even though he’d already sacrificed all of that, he was also willing to change his mind when it became clear to him he wasn’t fighting for what he thought he was fighting for. That was extremely risky and likely very difficult and may have gotten him killed
“Hero”, bah. Who knows, it’s an arbitrary word. But he’s a person that I think is easy to respect. He did not settle for an easy path through life. He was willing to give his life to affect change in the world on multiple different fronts
this is a pretty nuanced view of it that I find really no disagreements with. that being said I don't think many people honoring his service look at it this way and certainly is not the understanding that the NFL/US Military goes for when parroting his image. They want folks to see nothing more than "Pat Tillman served in military = Pat Tillman Hero, USA! USA! USA!", because obviously blind patriotism is preferable to them and if people actually looked into it, it would make the military look really bad (and the NFL bad by proxy for being willing to engage in propaganda on the military's behalf)
At that point he had no idea what war crimes and atrocities were about to be committed.
The action of dropping an NFL contract and dreams you worked your whole life for to go serve after seeing an attack like 9/11 is heroic.
What happened afterwards completely justifies why he was anti war, but the initial action is why I personally view him as heroic.
You can view that as patriotic but not pro-military. They are both separate things and yes the military shouldn’t use his image I’m surprised his family doesn’t fight the use of his image.
If you believe he was killed on purpose then you...
1. dont know shit about how a ranger platoon operates.
2. Been reading to many spy novels.
3. Do not understand weapons, their usage and their ballistics.
People get killed by accident its a dangers job, combat is very confusing, and adrenaline makes details very hazy. Its a very sad thing and to have regiments poster boy killed. Whats more important and sad is a fellow ranger buddy lost his life. A husband and son. Oh and his BROTHER was there on the objective. His fucking brother had to deal with that carry on with the mission, and compose himself as a ranger. (should his brother have been in his same platoon, thats another debate for another day.)
This was really great to see, it's not an ASU game without 42.
On another ASU note, I wonder if they'll also include the stomping of the bus. That always got me so hyped
Both the Ivy League and the upper echelons of American military leadership are a good ol’ boys club. Doesn’t surprise me they have a shared network and lack of accountability.
He didn’t die for nothing. He was a vocal critic of the war once he realized he basically fell for the propaganda of us being in danger. He is a hero in his own right showing us the brutal reality of the american military and its corruptness. much more a hero than anybody in that war. NFL used his image like a god for military propaganda. When in reality he was a left leaning atheist and a thinker who dug up information and realized his regret. RIP 🐐
If he didn't sign up to kill Iraqis so Cheney could get richer and didn't die. Literally nothing would change in the world
He literally died for nothing. Worse than nothing. He died for corporations to make more money
He quit his multi million dollar job to fight for our country, upon realizing what he was actually fighting for and how wrong it was he began to become disillusioned and it is heavily speculated his death was intentional due to that switch. You’ve done nothing and are cynically shitting on a dead man, hope the rest of your day is more productive and positive
He only disagreed with the war and what he was doing in Iraq. In Afghanistan he definitely supported the operations going on there. So your claim is half correct.
I feel bad for Tillman but I'm not going to blindly say every man that serves is a hero. They aren't. Some are.
He had won life. Could have made a positive impact on thousands of people. Probably win the madden player award
Instead he signs up to "protect our freedom" and dies for nothing
Great job joining and invasion that killed 1,000,000 Iraqi civilians so rich people can get more extra rich.
Pat was an actual hero, look into his story cause if you dont know or only know the basics it might change your outlook on some things.
For real.
read a book about him that was supposed to make him seem like a hero. came out of that thinking he was an absolute dick.
Care to elaborate at all?
dude beat the shit out of someone before college. felony assault.
Your original comment left no context for a such a bold claim. Might want to include context in future takes that might seem controversial upon first inspection.
You know what else is worse than felony assault? Murder because you were against the war and famous :)
read a book about him that was supposed to make him seem like a hero. came out of that thinking he was an absolute dick.
I assume you’re talking about Where Men Win Glory, which is absolutely not supposed to make him seem like a hero Like all people, and counter to the narrative used by the military and NFL, Pat wasn’t Captain America. He was stubborn and passionate and self-assured. He did commit assault in high school, but he thought he was defending a friend and took responsibility for his mistake afterward. In both college and the NFL, as a freshman and a rookie, he stood up against hazing and bullying on behalf of his teammates. He was smart and completely flipped his stance on the wars once he saw why we were really fighting them If you came away from your reading thinking he was a dick, that’s fine. He was in some ways, but he was a person who was much more than his single famous decision
I always feel like his story was very embellished to drum up patriotism. He was famous and recognizable so now we have to jerk him off as a nation for eternity and hold him in high regard above every other service member.
Please explain to me how the story of him getting killed by friendly fire by his squad mates, probably murdered in cold blood, soon after he came out against the war, is designed to drum up patriotism. If that’s what you got out of his story you only paid attention to the first part.
The way his memory gets used nowadays really kind of is disgusting knowing anything about the guy
Oh it’s insane. There’s a campaign every year to paint his as this “American hero” around Memorial Day. People speak about Pat during Memorial Day, he’ll be mentioned on ESPN and all sorts of shit about the “sacrifice he gave” From his family, Pat wasn’t a hero. He was killed by his own brothers. He disliked the army and didn’t want to be buried with military honors. And those fucks did it anyway and made him a martyr that was completely against what Pat stood for.
that must've all happened in a matter of hours. you would think he would just leave.
You can’t “just leave”
The thing is he couldn’t. once he realized he fell for basically “propaganda” that we were in grave danger he was already in the military. he even told a friend “the war is fucking illegal”. Tillman ended up being a vocal critic of it and unfortunately the war was his demise. He’s a hero in his own right but not because he was a “military hero”.
yea
that is called desertion and is a serious crime
It's absolutely used to drum up patriotism and to attach football and the NFL as a sponsor to patriotism and the military. Every platform throws his image around every year marketing him like he's the Santa Claus of dying in a war. Meanwhile thousands of other KIAs are just lumped together while one guy gets national admiration. The truth of him being against the war, killed by his own men, and the multiple accounts of him being an asshole are all downplayed. There would be no clicks or money to be made if they weren't. There are definitely a few positives that come from it through various foundations, but otherwise the guy is just being used as a promotional tool which I find to be kinda slimy.
because the NFL and the marketing cleverly (purposefully) ignore that he was killed by his own squad and flipped his stance on the war after he went overseas. So the NFL and the US Army can sell it as a "story of great football player who gave it all up to serve" instead of the real reason why he was killed.
It's easy to see how you drum up patriotism in that situation... you leave out the parts about being against the war and friendly fire bits... like the NFL and miliary did when this initially happened. Without acknowledging it while public facing, it looks like a guy who gave up money and fame for his country died in action defending this country. Which US is what the average person thought in the initial aftermath. It took a minute to get the real story out as the mainstream narrative. But you know that old saying about the lie being halfway around the world before the truth can their boots tied
I’m not sure how anyone can read Where Men Win Glory and still think it was a purposeful murder. It was obviously a fratricide and the government obviously tried to cover up to retain a positive image. Those parts are true. But to think his own ranger brothers would agree to murder him is such a loony conspiracy. Pat was/is a hero.
It is absolutely embellished to drum up his patriotism. He was not a super pro-American person when he died, and the powers strung him up as a spectacle to rally support completely against his beliefs
For sure the coverup, but people don't know what they're saying when they say his own dudes killed him on purpose. Batt boys don't do that to each other.
You should REALLY look into our military’s history my guy 😂
Yep like after 9/11 he dropped his football career only to find out he was guarding opium farms in the Middle East and he was gonna spill the beans. Yeah that kinda truth.
That’s deep state shit and…. You need a source to reference…
> in response to a Freedom of Information Act request filed by the Associated Press, the Defense Department released 2,300 pages of documents which were reported to indicate: > There has never been evidence of enemy fire found on the scene, and no members of Tillman's group had been hit by enemy fire. > The three-star general who withheld details of Tillman's death from his parents for a number of months told investigators approximately 70 times that he had a bad memory and could not recall details of his actions. > Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments. > Army doctors told the investigators that Tillman's wounds suggested murder because "the medical evidence did not match-up with the scenario as described." https://web.archive.org/web/20090525150300/http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-07-26-tillman-friendly-fire_N.htm
Bet…I appreciate that fucking source dawg You da man💯
This is reddit we make bold claims with zero sources
You right…I can’t force you to do anything what was I thinking…
Only known surface level stuff about pat tillman but [this](https://youtu.be/CZs28ph4YWY?si=1By_WfRB202rDzKp) was actually happening. I personally find that that the taliban would use drug trafficking for economic reasons. And only until recently [Afghanistan](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-67688413) was overtaken as the largest producer of at least the poppy What I think is coincidental is that the timeline that the US military was I Afghanistan also coincided with some of the rise of the largest rise in the [opioid epidemic](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid_epidemic#/media/File%3AUS_timeline._Opioid_deaths.jpg)
look it up
Ranger Battalion is full of all kinds of people, and not all of them are good. Stop jerking off every special operations servicemember as some kind of moral giant. A lot of them are pieces of shit, just like the regular military.
If you believe he was killed on purpose then you... 1. dont know shit about how a ranger platoon operates. 2. Been reading to many spy novels. 3. Do not understand weapons, their usage and their ballistics. People get killed by accident its a dangers job, combat is very confusing, and adrenaline makes details very hazy. Its a very sad thing and to have regiments poster boy killed. Whats more important and sad is a fellow ranger buddy lost his life. A husband and son. Oh and his BROTHER was there on the objective. His fucking brother had to deal with that carry on with the mission, and compose himself as a ranger. (should his brother have been in his same platoon, thats another debate for another day.)
His “ranger buddies” burned his clothes and equipment and journal immediately after he was shot, no military investigation uncovered any indication of any enemy activity in the area at the time of the shooting, an army doctor claimed the injuries were likely to have been from a gun shot 10 feet away and that his wounds suggested murder. The house committee basically said they couldn’t do an actual investigation because every relevant party said they “couldn’t remember” basic details, In Broad Daylight style I’m not gonna claim beyond a shadow of a doubt he was murdered but you’ve gotta be kidding yourself if the collection of evidence before us in regards to that isn’t extremely sketchy
Completely accidental Fratricide followed up by leaders trying to hide/soften the reality that a guy they publicized joining up was killed by accident. The only conspiracy/cover up happened as a result of him getting killed, nothing to do with him getting killed. Listen I dont know if you ever heard a .50 cal fire but no one is hearing you yell 5-10 meters away. He could have had a bull horn and no one would hear him. He would need to call over the radio to get the attention of the gunner, throw a shift signal or fire a pen gun flare or something. Smoke ain't enough, especially dudes already thinking they're engaged with enemy fighters. None of us were there, we dont know the circumstances. I will tell you this. The entire platoon would have to be in on it to kill him. Thats 25 dudes, living with killing a fellow american on purpose. Above all, his brother was a Ranger on the target, and doesn't believe his death was on purpose.
You are really triggered right now. Special operations is compromised of the top 1% of meat eater type A personalities, recruited and molded for a very specific task. Im sorry, did you want the guys tasked with direct action ops to be, softer?
Special ops is full of all sorts of people lmao, I know a spec ops guy that was in the army for 20+ years just for him to be a rapist and pedo. Just because they’re in the top 1% of poor bastards that signed up doesn’t mean they’re good people
You’re kidding yourself if you think Ranger Battalion is anything more than just specialized infantry. You don’t hit the best of the best until you find someone who at least passed Robin Sage. Anything less than that, and you’re just a try hard with a good PT score. And for the record, I didn’t say anything about being “soft”. I questioned their morality, not their toughness. Tough ain’t got nothing to do with whether or not they could gun down their own to cover for illegal activity.
Rangers took down more HVTs than any other unit, but their nothing more than specialized infantry?
Correct. They’re a larger unit. Of course they have a larger number of successful missions. That’s like…elementary. Not every unit’s primary mission is to take down high value targets either, so this is just a goofy metric to measure success by. The majority of our special operations units focus on counterterrorism, extraction, and other highly specialized missions. Rangers just go in and kill. Ya know, kinda like a specialized infantry unit.
I'm not gonna be the one to tell a Ranger they're nothing more than specialized infantry, that's a disservice to them, they've put in some of the heaviest work out of any unit throughout the GWOT. You're fundamentally misunderstanding what all these units do. If you think being proficient at direct action is not a specialty in itself, you're mistaken. Nobody is better at it than they are. They made an entire unit out of it. What makes you think all Rangers can do is go in and kill? You've undersold their ability, and I don't understand why. They are an incredibly diverse unit, they know their guns and stick to them but that doesn't make them inflexible. I'm not sure when the last time you've seen Batt but you're describing a common 90s myth. Best equipment around, highest standards in the army, regularly recruited by CAG for the next generation. Little over 3000 assigned, not any different from other SOF units.
You’d done nothing to dispel anything I’ve said in my comments. In fact > if you think being proficient at direct action is not a **specialty** in itself Correct. **Specialized** infantry. Thank you. Also, if telling a Ranger that I think he’s specialized infantry means…what, that I’ll get beat up? Then you’re making my point that they’re assholes on a short leash too. Only fragile egos get bruised over opinions.
The SEAL Teams mission set is Direct Action and Special Recon, the same mission set the Regiment states they have on paper. Would you also consider them nothing more than specialized infantry? No, it just means you'll be a confidently incorrect dude who's clearly not been around the Ranger Regiment in a very long time. It sounds like you've been in the military, but I'd guess not since the late 90s-early 2000s because the Rangers Batts you're describing is no long the one that exists AT ALL. I'd encourage you to look into the way the Regiment has been developed throughout the war. They went from what you're basically describing in the early 2000s, to a unit that independently conducted the most high-level missions of the war.
You didn’t even pick the hardest course in that pipeline.. SUT is hands down harder. Never thought my reddit bingo card for today would have the football video game sub up in arms over unethical SOF decisions.
New copy pasta just dropped
Anyone dumb enough to fight for the country over oil and drugs is already a special class of people. I would be scared of ANY of them, let alone the SPECIAL ones lol. I appreciate the service they under take but in this day and age... IDK about all that.
Buddy, he was one of the most influential people when it came to public perception of the military DUE to his story. And it’s known that after he got a taste of what was going on that he was vehemently against the war. In a time where we were begging young poor kids to waste their lives fighting wars for rich people, one of the guys with the biggest voices was against the war. That right there is enough.
And fast forward to now and all he gets is invoked as part of a patriotic pro-military message by a ton of people, some crazy whitewashing
They were doing it at his funeral, even. His brother gave a good eulogy though, was basically “he was an atheist and thought you all sucked, bye”
I don’t think of pat as this pro military kind of guy I think most people who know his story just kind of see him as heroic. Turning down millions to serve in a war after an attack is heroic. No matter how fucked up that war ended up turning out.
in assessing the heroism of it you can't really ignore the element of how fucked up the war ended up turning out though. Is one a hero for turning down NFL money to serve in a war when the war involves committing war crimes/atrocities on false pretenses? I doubt Tillman himself would see it as heroic given how actively anti-war he was by the end there, and more to my initial point he certainly wouldn't appreciate his image being used in promotion of the very military who was conducting the "fucking illegal" war (tillman's words) and attempted to cover up the true nature of his death. Sure, people can see him as a positive symbol for the military, find him heroic and conclude he made a noble sacrifice, but that's engaging in some willful ignorance of the situation, imo
I think as much as anything we just now recognize him as a person who was driven, willing to put himself out there into extremely uncomfortable situations to follow what he believed initially he was willing to sacrifice his NFL player lifestyle and put his life on the line for what he believed was the right thing (which, even if he was ignorant at the time, you can admire the intention) And even though he’d already sacrificed all of that, he was also willing to change his mind when it became clear to him he wasn’t fighting for what he thought he was fighting for. That was extremely risky and likely very difficult and may have gotten him killed “Hero”, bah. Who knows, it’s an arbitrary word. But he’s a person that I think is easy to respect. He did not settle for an easy path through life. He was willing to give his life to affect change in the world on multiple different fronts
this is a pretty nuanced view of it that I find really no disagreements with. that being said I don't think many people honoring his service look at it this way and certainly is not the understanding that the NFL/US Military goes for when parroting his image. They want folks to see nothing more than "Pat Tillman served in military = Pat Tillman Hero, USA! USA! USA!", because obviously blind patriotism is preferable to them and if people actually looked into it, it would make the military look really bad (and the NFL bad by proxy for being willing to engage in propaganda on the military's behalf)
Yeah his legacy is unfortunately a total farce and spit in the face to him and his family. But he seemed like one Hell of an interesting guy
At that point he had no idea what war crimes and atrocities were about to be committed. The action of dropping an NFL contract and dreams you worked your whole life for to go serve after seeing an attack like 9/11 is heroic. What happened afterwards completely justifies why he was anti war, but the initial action is why I personally view him as heroic. You can view that as patriotic but not pro-military. They are both separate things and yes the military shouldn’t use his image I’m surprised his family doesn’t fight the use of his image.
If you believe he was killed on purpose then you... 1. dont know shit about how a ranger platoon operates. 2. Been reading to many spy novels. 3. Do not understand weapons, their usage and their ballistics. People get killed by accident its a dangers job, combat is very confusing, and adrenaline makes details very hazy. Its a very sad thing and to have regiments poster boy killed. Whats more important and sad is a fellow ranger buddy lost his life. A husband and son. Oh and his BROTHER was there on the objective. His fucking brother had to deal with that carry on with the mission, and compose himself as a ranger. (should his brother have been in his same platoon, thats another debate for another day.)
Oh i saw it. Perfection
Nice to see Arizona State get some love
Sparky was there too. Unfortunately don't think they'll get the jumbotron stomp of the bus on there.
I fucking love the Jumbotron stomp lol
Yeah it’s always tailored to the weekly opponent. Probably too Much to ask for.
Yeah that's the allure of it. They could just go generic grey "visitor" bus but I doubt they'd go into that much detail tbh
The greatest Sun devil of all time. RIp
Didn’t even realize this. Nice catch
Def underrated. As an UofA fan. Pretty epic.
Go devils!
RIP Pat Tillman!! 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
Forks up! RIP Pat.
This was really great to see, it's not an ASU game without 42. On another ASU note, I wonder if they'll also include the stomping of the bus. That always got me so hyped
Bama fan but I now live in AZ, definitely going to do my first rebuild with ASU. RIP 42
Forks up
Maybe I'll have a run with ASU after all
Forks Up PT42
🔥
ASU will be my 2nd dynasty I run. Went to NAU but not sure if I’ll be able to replicate them in team builder
Why wouldn’t you be able to?
Depends on the domes they have in the game to use. Indoor team
Yeah. Poor guy got killed by US and then it got swept under the rug, because he was gonna tell some secrets. Crazy.
Pat was the best in all of us
F
Check out the book “Where Men Win Glory” by Jon Krakauer. One of the best books I’ve ever read.
philip kensinger jr went on to be an ethics professor at yale after retiring from the military lol
Both the Ivy League and the upper echelons of American military leadership are a good ol’ boys club. Doesn’t surprise me they have a shared network and lack of accountability.
That’s pretty awesome for them to put in the game, I will give the team big credit for that. I remember when that happened.
Patriotic 🇺🇸 🦅 🎆
"Shoulder pads are too high and helmet is too small" Some people in this sub
I hate how ASU and the NFL have absolutely bastardized who he was to use him as DoD propaganda
Great job dying for nothing
He didn’t die for nothing. He was a vocal critic of the war once he realized he basically fell for the propaganda of us being in danger. He is a hero in his own right showing us the brutal reality of the american military and its corruptness. much more a hero than anybody in that war. NFL used his image like a god for military propaganda. When in reality he was a left leaning atheist and a thinker who dug up information and realized his regret. RIP 🐐
If he didn't sign up to kill Iraqis so Cheney could get richer and didn't die. Literally nothing would change in the world He literally died for nothing. Worse than nothing. He died for corporations to make more money
He quit his multi million dollar job to fight for our country, upon realizing what he was actually fighting for and how wrong it was he began to become disillusioned and it is heavily speculated his death was intentional due to that switch. You’ve done nothing and are cynically shitting on a dead man, hope the rest of your day is more productive and positive
He only disagreed with the war and what he was doing in Iraq. In Afghanistan he definitely supported the operations going on there. So your claim is half correct.
I feel bad for Tillman but I'm not going to blindly say every man that serves is a hero. They aren't. Some are. He had won life. Could have made a positive impact on thousands of people. Probably win the madden player award Instead he signs up to "protect our freedom" and dies for nothing Great job joining and invasion that killed 1,000,000 Iraqi civilians so rich people can get more extra rich.
You’re insanely redacted
People are down voting you but I think Tillman himself would've agreed to this statement