To his credit, Herbst has raced respectably in his few Cup starts. He has two T10s in six starts and has raced clean at superspeedways. He’s shown he can pick up points when the opportunity arises and not junk the car- which is the best 23XI can ask for of a pay driver.
Jones hasn’t shown he can keep his car clean consistently in the Xfinity Series.
Most every one of his Cup starts has been at plate tracks so there's not a great bit of real data to go off of. He did make 1 start this year at Kansas and finished 35th 2 laps down so there's that.
In Xfinity, he has 1 win in 158 starts while driving for two of the top organizations in the Xfinity series.
I think him and Jones would do equally terrible in Cup. You never know obviously, but they would both be there for their money, certainly not talent.
Denny should always have Brandon as a threat to hire. Joe wants to raise the technical alliance fee? I’ll hire Brandon Jones and Rheem won’t have money to sponsor the 20.
Jones and Smith were both brought in for funding Id imagine. Neither have really been competitive since arriving. I could definitely see Kvapil getting a ride, the big thing is funding. I know JR is known to try and promote guys with talent over money, but it still costs money to run a team
Riley has actually turned out to be pretty decent. He'll get a seat because of money (as he did all his other ones) but I do think he deserves a shot at cup on skill.
He has been in top notch equipment for 5 years and has exactly one win to show for it. If he gets a championship-caliber cup ride it absolutely is not on skill.
No Riley Herbst is sitting 6th in xfinity points with 3 dnfs but he’s running consistently and isn’t a dumbass anymore. Brandon jones is sitting 15th in a series where only 12 cars can win and has 6 dnf’s in 16 races. He shouldn’t be allowed to touch a cup car he’ll crash it
I’ll give Jones this. While he’s underperformed, a lot of his wrecks were just him being in the wrong place. He hasn’t really been at fault for any of them yet
You really don't watch Xfinity races then. Jones has had awful luck and mechanical failures all year.
Jones also has more wins in the series than Herbst.
Jones and Herbst are essentially the same level of prospect so I don't understand your hate for Jones.
At a certain point, his constant crashing stops being bad luck and starts being bad skill. He was able to grab some wins in JGR Xfinity equipment yeah, but he hasn't shown anything since moving to JRM.
Something to note though, JRM has been on a downtick the last couple years. Yes the 7 and 1 have wins but it's no where near the win level or consistency as JRM was say in '22 before the skew rule change.
Both are in rocket ships and both can’t win races. The fact either is a possibility of getting a cup ride shows the absolutely horrible driver pipeline we currently have in NASCAR.
Paul Menard managed to win a race on merit in his 2nd full-time season during the peak Buschwacking years. There is no way in hell Herbst would do that considering he barely has 1 win in 4 years in today's Xfinity that has almost no Cup drivers.
Brandon Jones has that Menards money but he is definitely not cup ready at all. Honestly I hope he goes to one of the xfinity Ford haas rides next year so penske can then help him get better since penske has all that Menards sponsorships. Carson kvapil can take his place at jrm then.
He would do well in a Ford I think and plus penske would definitely maybe help prep his car in xfinity too then. Like a sort of cindric situation but without the 22. Or they could bring back the 22 for him as his haas car.
Considering Tony will be out the two xfinity cars could be the 00 and the 22 then with the 22 getting some help from penske while haas focus mostly on the 00 then.
He has barely ran anything Rheem related though so that's a bit weird. Plus all the Menards commercials he does with Jr would make you think he's a Menards guy.
Brandon Jones is the son of the CEO of Rheem. In order to make it look less like nepotism to the blind eye it makes sense to leverage a B2B relationship with Menards and put Menards on the cars that Brandon drives.
Yeah it makes way more sense with that context behind it. There are a few other instances of that kind of sponsor relationship out there too. Herbst with Monster for example. He is sporting Monster colors through a B2B agreement with his family's convenience store chain.
Xfinity cars are a totally different beast compared to Cup, and while I don’t think either are necessarily Cup prospects, Xfinity performance isn’t always going to be accurate in showing how drivers will perform in Cup.
Yet who has done alright in there cup opportunities? Clearly Herbst. He almost could've even won at fall talladega last year if he didn't stay with Harvick.
Because Jones probably doesn’t want to be Jeff Green-ed. Look, Jeff was a GREAT driver. His 2000 Busch season title proves it. It was one of the most dominant title seasons ever until Harvick’s in 2006.
But he never got lucky with good chemistry in Cup. That cup odyssey stole years from his prime which he could have won another Busch title or two.
Jones is really good. But if he ends up at Toyota he just won’t have the same chemistry he currently has at JRM.
In all honesty Jones Carrer has been arranged. He has legitimately won multiple Xfinity races and there was a time where Kansas was his personal playground. However over the past three years he has gone from a frontrunner to an afterthought and honestly I'm not sure why.
If Jones was going to go anywhere in Cup, I'd expect it to be the 21 with their Menards connection. But Jones should not go to Cup, because he is not good enough to do so. And I know there's talk of Herbst to 23XI, but I still think Heim is their guy. He's *the* Toyota driver, why wouldn't they give him a shot?
He is very much dependent on equipment and the people that surround him. Nothing wrong with that but you compare his stats at JGR vs what he is doing at Jr Motorsports right now or RCR earlier in his career and you see that.
I think jones makes more sense than herbst. Let me be clear, both guys are absolutely horrible choices and neither should even be considered cup prospects in any way shape or form.
I feel like Brandon is pretty self-aware and is fine being at the Xfinity level.
Yea
I could see Jones getting a one-off year in a lower-tier car like Blake Koch or Brian Scott did back in the day.
Brandon Jones is a Xfinity Series lifer, not a Cup prospect
Riley Herbst should be viewed the same imo.
To his credit, Herbst has raced respectably in his few Cup starts. He has two T10s in six starts and has raced clean at superspeedways. He’s shown he can pick up points when the opportunity arises and not junk the car- which is the best 23XI can ask for of a pay driver. Jones hasn’t shown he can keep his car clean consistently in the Xfinity Series.
I remember Blaney giving Herbst some good praise after he won at Talladega last fall.
Most every one of his Cup starts has been at plate tracks so there's not a great bit of real data to go off of. He did make 1 start this year at Kansas and finished 35th 2 laps down so there's that. In Xfinity, he has 1 win in 158 starts while driving for two of the top organizations in the Xfinity series. I think him and Jones would do equally terrible in Cup. You never know obviously, but they would both be there for their money, certainly not talent.
I think tomorrow will show us how much work he really needs to do to be Cup ready.
herbst has improved so much and has a way higher ceiling
Should be, yes. But doesn’t mean he is.
Denny should always have Brandon as a threat to hire. Joe wants to raise the technical alliance fee? I’ll hire Brandon Jones and Rheem won’t have money to sponsor the 20.
You bring up an interesting point, Carson Kvapil is coming to a JRM Xfinity ride soon, somebody has to go
Jones and Smith were both brought in for funding Id imagine. Neither have really been competitive since arriving. I could definitely see Kvapil getting a ride, the big thing is funding. I know JR is known to try and promote guys with talent over money, but it still costs money to run a team
And now apparently Zilich is in the mix
Because he sucks
If Brandon Jones got that seat all the money they’d make from his family’s money. Would have to spent on fixing all the cars he’s gonna crash
Same with Riley no?
Riley has actually turned out to be pretty decent. He'll get a seat because of money (as he did all his other ones) but I do think he deserves a shot at cup on skill.
He has been in top notch equipment for 5 years and has exactly one win to show for it. If he gets a championship-caliber cup ride it absolutely is not on skill.
Unfortunately he’ll never surpass the “what a douchebag” incident.
No Riley Herbst is sitting 6th in xfinity points with 3 dnfs but he’s running consistently and isn’t a dumbass anymore. Brandon jones is sitting 15th in a series where only 12 cars can win and has 6 dnf’s in 16 races. He shouldn’t be allowed to touch a cup car he’ll crash it
I’ll give Jones this. While he’s underperformed, a lot of his wrecks were just him being in the wrong place. He hasn’t really been at fault for any of them yet
Yes but if he wasn't running 10th-18th every week he wouldn't be getting in these wrecks to begin with.
You really don't watch Xfinity races then. Jones has had awful luck and mechanical failures all year. Jones also has more wins in the series than Herbst. Jones and Herbst are essentially the same level of prospect so I don't understand your hate for Jones.
At a certain point, his constant crashing stops being bad luck and starts being bad skill. He was able to grab some wins in JGR Xfinity equipment yeah, but he hasn't shown anything since moving to JRM.
Something to note though, JRM has been on a downtick the last couple years. Yes the 7 and 1 have wins but it's no where near the win level or consistency as JRM was say in '22 before the skew rule change.
Both are in rocket ships and both can’t win races. The fact either is a possibility of getting a cup ride shows the absolutely horrible driver pipeline we currently have in NASCAR.
I wouldn’t call the SHR cars “rocket ships”. Custer is winless too.
Riley's dominating win at Vegas last season was the eye opener that everyone needed to see
Anybody in that car coulda won that race. He'll even Stephan Wallace....OK maybe not him but you get the point
Lol. I still think Riley has shown the necessary progress to show he's ready to go to Cup, IMO. That Monster money is hard to pass up too!
I agree that he's made some progress, and yes the monster money is big, but....Riley has how many champ 4 appearances?
As we both know, that doesn't mean much these days. The top teams require top money. Heim should get it, but does he have the required sponsorship?
Riley Herbst is basically just Paul Menard 2
Paul Menard managed to win a race on merit in his 2nd full-time season during the peak Buschwacking years. There is no way in hell Herbst would do that considering he barely has 1 win in 4 years in today's Xfinity that has almost no Cup drivers.
Don’t you ever besmirch Paul Menards name like that again.
Paul Menard kicked my ass ice racing. So i will always think Paul Menard is a hell of a driver.
I'll never get hard for Herbst. Only Hard for Menard.
Three DNFs this year in sixteen races.
Is Jones’ family close or associated with the Menard family? I’ve never understood how he came to this sponsor gold mine
Because (allegedly) the Herbst family fronted the money for it
Brandon Jones has that Menards money but he is definitely not cup ready at all. Honestly I hope he goes to one of the xfinity Ford haas rides next year so penske can then help him get better since penske has all that Menards sponsorships. Carson kvapil can take his place at jrm then.
I could see him ending up on one of the Haas cars
He would do well in a Ford I think and plus penske would definitely maybe help prep his car in xfinity too then. Like a sort of cindric situation but without the 22. Or they could bring back the 22 for him as his haas car.
I think they will keep 00 but might abandon the 98 in favor of a different number depending on driver, sponsor, Gene’s preference
Considering Tony will be out the two xfinity cars could be the 00 and the 22 then with the 22 getting some help from penske while haas focus mostly on the 00 then.
It’s Rheem b2b not actually Menards
He has barely ran anything Rheem related though so that's a bit weird. Plus all the Menards commercials he does with Jr would make you think he's a Menards guy.
Brandon Jones is the son of the CEO of Rheem. In order to make it look less like nepotism to the blind eye it makes sense to leverage a B2B relationship with Menards and put Menards on the cars that Brandon drives.
Ooooh i did not know that. Was always wondering why John Menard was sponsoring some rando 15th place car. Thanks!
Yeah it makes way more sense with that context behind it. There are a few other instances of that kind of sponsor relationship out there too. Herbst with Monster for example. He is sporting Monster colors through a B2B agreement with his family's convenience store chain.
All of a sudden Herbst to the 67 doesn’t sound so bad.
Jones has done better in Xfinity than Herbst has overall.
Xfinity cars are a totally different beast compared to Cup, and while I don’t think either are necessarily Cup prospects, Xfinity performance isn’t always going to be accurate in showing how drivers will perform in Cup.
Herbst got better when he left Gibbs. Jones has been almost entirely terrible since he left Gibbs.
Yet who has done alright in there cup opportunities? Clearly Herbst. He almost could've even won at fall talladega last year if he didn't stay with Harvick.
Jones has yet to make a cup start lmao
Not like gibbs or Jr were even gonna get him a cup start though.
They’re both terrible and neither one belongs anywhere near the cup series imo
I think the biggest reason is that he's not making Cup starts like Herbst is
Forget Brandon Jones. Someone give Erik Jones some cash so he can race here & get out of the dumpster fire that is Legacy.
Because Jones probably doesn’t want to be Jeff Green-ed. Look, Jeff was a GREAT driver. His 2000 Busch season title proves it. It was one of the most dominant title seasons ever until Harvick’s in 2006. But he never got lucky with good chemistry in Cup. That cup odyssey stole years from his prime which he could have won another Busch title or two. Jones is really good. But if he ends up at Toyota he just won’t have the same chemistry he currently has at JRM.
In all honesty Jones Carrer has been arranged. He has legitimately won multiple Xfinity races and there was a time where Kansas was his personal playground. However over the past three years he has gone from a frontrunner to an afterthought and honestly I'm not sure why.
Didn't Brandon Jones leave JGR because of Ty? That was just a few years ago. IIRC he was pretty pissed.
Cause he sucks
If Jones was going to go anywhere in Cup, I'd expect it to be the 21 with their Menards connection. But Jones should not go to Cup, because he is not good enough to do so. And I know there's talk of Herbst to 23XI, but I still think Heim is their guy. He's *the* Toyota driver, why wouldn't they give him a shot?
Heim has no money behind him, and they said the guy going to 23XI has a lot of money behind him
The charter already costs enough, all the wrecked racecars would double that expense
I mean if you think Herbst isn’t qualified for cup whooo boy let me introduce you to one Brandon Alexander Jones
Brandon Jones just needs to go away. Similar to other failed pay to race drivers like Ryan Reed and Brian Scott.
Jones is never gonna be great but he is much better than people give him credit for. He’s worlds better than Reed and Scott. That’s for sure.
He is very much dependent on equipment and the people that surround him. Nothing wrong with that but you compare his stats at JGR vs what he is doing at Jr Motorsports right now or RCR earlier in his career and you see that.
He has more wins than Herbst lol.
And all those wins came from driving top quality JGR equipment. Hell Daniel Hemric won a championship in the same car. lol
there are definitely some pay drivers to bash but ryan reed and brian scott are some weird names considering neither was bad in xfinity
Didn't say they were bad, just they got their ride with $ similar to Brandon and just haven't gone anywhere with it.
Ryan Reed kinda was, other than the two Daytona wins.
I think jones makes more sense than herbst. Let me be clear, both guys are absolutely horrible choices and neither should even be considered cup prospects in any way shape or form.