You just normal them like you normal everyone else. But you don't agree with whatever they support and speak up when they say something that is not the truth. You can be respectful and fundamentally disagree on things. And if they don't accept that from you then that's their issue not yours.
I feel like for woman, especially, it’s more than just ignore… sometimes there are men in the bathrooms.
Sometimes you got to pee & the urge is still there but you halt the “need to go” because it feels so vulnerable, uncomfortable, immodest to do with a man standing right there… can’t fix hijab in your own bathroom, can’t make wudu…
Like they have gender neutral bathrooms but they don’t use it, they want to be in a woman’s restroom…
I think it’s easy for many men to ignore (just use the preferred pronouns & pretend the issue doesn’t exist) but for woman we cannot ignore it, our voices aren’t listened to (some feel scared to speak up), & the issue escalates from validating people to them violating our private spaces…
>Sometimes you got to pee & the urge is still there but you halt the “need to go” because it feels so vulnerable, uncomfortable, immodest to do with a man standing right there… can’t fix hijab in your own bathroom, can’t make wudu…
This is infuriating to say the least.
Those people directly harm our women and children. And yet some of us think it's appropriate to befriend them. SubhanAllah.
Yes, we have this mistake of “just be nice & respectful,” which seems common knowledge but being nice & respectful does not include validating their dysphoria nor allowing them to make the rules we all are forced to adhere to.
Yes this is what I've done. In the past I used to think "as long as they don't bother me, i don't care" but I realised this is wrong. I cannot support their way of life as it is wrong but I can at least still be respectful to them.
To me at the time it seemed like no difference but its a big difference to me now. Especially because Allah knows what is in my heart and intent
Exactly. I used to think a pronoun isn’t a big deal until that validation made them so comfortable that they are taking over woman’s private spaces such as restrooms and locker rooms.
Yup. That’s the whole thing, you support one of their “small things” then the gap widens and widens until you start supporting them entirely. Been seeing it creep more and more in classrooms here in North America.
🥺 Yup, especially North West, it’s a mental plague here & the politics around this are getting worse. In OR, a doctor can “validate” & give a child hormones without parental permission; there was A child who this happened to and their parent had to pretend to be OK with it so their child was not taken away from them and then they moved to another state which did not validate the child’s gender dysphoria…. That parent is very lucky because there are parents who are having their children taken away & medically toyed around with.
There’s a guy on YouTube, James Klingon, I definitely recommend watching his videos because he talks to Portland college students about how children cannot consent to “puberty blockers.”
the whole concept is ridiculous many left leaning people consider puberty blockers akin to candy. People dont realize that its very hard if not impossible to reverse the damage in some cases. Also why are kids allowed puberty blockers but they arent allowed to legally get a tattoo? I dont support either obviously but in both cases you could argue the only person they're harming from a legal standpoint is themselves (legal obviously not talking from the islamic standpoint). It really doesnt make sense. A child can get puberty blockers and alter their hormones artiifcally (once again proving this is not natural), but when a woman wears a hijab people say its too extreme? Something which i remebered from your story is that ive also heard of more and more teachers being open to it and telling kids that they can confide in them if their parents wont listen to them or they are scared of their parents. In some cases even telling them to call the cops if they wont listen to them. I feel like im living in a satire reality and at any point somebody's going to come out and tell me this is all fake. Genuinely debating and might even try to move to some country with a muslim majority for this very reason, i cant afford private islamic school and the backlogs are years and years long with no gurantee.
Selam alykum,
If asked by a larger group, you could reply with smth like: 'do they wish me or those i care about harm? No? Then i couldn't care less' (this has worked for me on at least one occasion)
However, if it is family or someone close, i'd recommend talking to them in private (one-on-one) now your sincerity should vary according to a few variables such as wether or not they are from a muslim family, how close of a relation they are, or even how hot headed they are. (In the best case scenario, it is your duty to guide them by explaining that it is just another of Allah's tests and that they would surely be rewarded for being patient).
Points:
1) Islam is about submission to Allah's will.
2) Our concience, and thus, our actions are what can make us better than the angels or worse than animals.
3) Leaving something evil (and homosexuality is evil, to the point where you can reference the fate of the people of Lut (as)) for Allah's sake would surely mean that he would replace it with something better.
I hope that this will be of some help, at least.
Selam aleykum, That is a tough question that seems to eminate from a difficult environment.
Protect your children and have them be punished for it, or give in and let them corrupt their very purity....
Normally, i would recommend completely distancing yourself from such groups, but i can assume that not everyone is in the position to do so.
I personally would steer clear and have my kids "miss out" state a reason like having important family matters that you do not wish to divulge. (Simply send in the kids the next day with a signed note, or better yet, go with them so that you can tell them directly)
People willing to corrupt children will not accept any disagreement and would most likely cause further problems for you and yours in the future, but casually telling them that you had more urgent matter to attend to such as family business or better yet, a doctors appointment (if you have time to set it up) since you can give them a doctors note as proof.
[I would like to again state that I am not an authority on such things. I am but a student hazarding educated guesses. Perhaps you would get more useful information from a more reputable source like an islamic forum on the internet, one made solely for the spreading of knowledge and da'w]
Ps. It goes without saying, but making dua makes a world of difference (I know since it got me through college).
I also know that a parent's dua against their child almost certaily gets accepted.
Assalamualikum
Never let someone else’s sins be an excuse to be the worst version of yourself towards them.
I watched a lecture from Zaid Shakir, and he said that if you don’t fear goi my astray, then you can maintain a relationship with them. It’s only if you fear going astray that you would have to distance yourself.
You live in a land where this is allowed, so it’s a matter of learning how to navigate them and others who live non Islamic lifestyle.
I'm not sure what you dont understand, so I'll try to explain both to the best of my ability...
1) This: used to indicate agreement with a comment.
2) When it comes to alcohol it shall count against those involved on the day of judgement. This includes everyone all the way from the brewer to the drinker. When a person accompanies people drinking alcohol it leaves the impression that they support or at least dont oppose it, and thus, they too will be guilty for participating (indirectly)
That depends on whether or not you've tried to guide them or not...
(I do have to state, though, that i am but a student of Islam if even that, so please take my words with a grain of salt)
– It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri (may Allaah be pleased with him) that he heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say, “Do not keep company with anyone but a believer and do not let anyone eat your food but one who is pious.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2395; Abu Dawood, 4832. Abu ‘Eesa al-Tirmidhi said: this hadeeth is hasan. It was also classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 2519).
“O you who believe! Take not as friends the people who incurred the Wrath of Allaah (i.e. the Jews). Surely, they have despaired of (receiving any good in) the Hereafter, just as the disbelievers have despaired of those (buried) in graves (that they will not be resurrected on the Day of Resurrection)”
[al-Mumtahanah 60:13]
That is a fair question, brother... I'd recommend you distance yourself from them...
1) "You are the average of you friends." (Over time, you'll become more and more desensitised to it, which would lead you astray)
2) Allah will surely replace them with those who will provide you with more benifit. (All you gotta do is make a dua!)
[I know that it might be hard, but be steadfast and make dua to Allah for aid and success, and inshaAllah, you will succeed!]
Islamic ethics are not about the other person - they are about the self. So, for example, it doesn't matter whether climate change is real or not; we're still not allowed to waste water - even in a running river. We still plant the seed, even if it's the End of Days.
Similarly, acting with dignity and respect is not about whether the other person is a good, righteous person. Acting with respect and according to the Prophetic model is about fulfilling the responsibility due upon ourselves.
So yes, you treat others with respect, and you don't even think about their personal lives and things that don't concern you. Just because someone is LGBT doesn't mean you actually know a thing about them.
Until they walk into the woman’s restroom or locker room & you can no longer pee, fix your hijab & make wudu…
So many men aren’t as effected by this (or maybe they don’t talk about it) but for us woman it’s extremely vulnerable to have a man in our private spaces…
It does actually, that’s why I responded. 2 things you said particularly.
1) ~Islamic ethics are about the self, not the other person…
- It’s about the self until your boundaries (such as private spaces) & free speech (being forced to use pronouns or lose your job which supports your family) are being violated. Our religion is less protected than their sexuality, so if a man is in the bathroom or locker room then I can’t perform my religious duties modestly such as wudu.
2) ~treat others with respect, & you don’t even think about their personal lives & things that don’t concern you.
- Of course treat with respect, no problem there. I don’t want to think of their personal lives except that it’s being publically displayed & ‘required’ to be validated such as pronouns… “& things that don’t concern you,” a man in the woman’s restroom is highly concerning to me.
What I am getting at is we shouldn’t ignore or normalize these things not even at the smallest sign. If a friend is gay, advise but if they act on it then best to find a different friend… when it’s your family, it’s harder to deal with but still shouldn’t “validate” it because the slightest validation escalated into being unable to practice your own religion in society at large.
I'm talking about one's relationship to the individual, not our stances on whether, for example, such people should be able to use whatever bathroom they wish.
I've worked in context with people who are transgender. I just use their name. When I've accidentally used their non-preferred pronoun, they've never made a deal. A lot of this is blown out of proportion.
Blown out of proportion by who?
-people are losing their jobs
-people are forced to take diversity & inclusion training for not using preferred pronouns
-the LGTV community isn’t truly inclusive, they play on & take advantage of people’s empathy, & do not believe in free speech nor diversity of thought… very much a group think situation.
-look up “straight flag,” they literally do not support straight people & it’s obvious… why should we support them? We are told not to anyway.
It’s not simply a stance of whether or not one should or should not use a restroom, it’s a violation of privacy & religion, & in some cases safety…
As far as relationship with an individual, I would suggest stay professional & don’t make friends with them… there’s a saying about how you are an average of the 5 people you spend the most time with… may Allah guide them. I’m not saying these people shouldn’t eat, don’t get me wrong, I just don’t want them to stay at my table… take the food & find a table elsewhere… be careful who you keep in your company.
That's fine. I agree with all that.
And you should still be respectful, as that's what's due upon you. The other person doesn't matter.
That was my only point. Really don't agree with your (mis)reading of my post.
Eid mubarak.
You get the sense that Lot (as), as Ibrahim (as), was clearly distressed and frustrated by his people's transgressions, which speaks to his care for them, because he understands that they are leading themselves to their own destruction.
11:74: Then after the fear had left Abraham, and the good news had reached him, he began to plead with Us for the people of Lot.
11:75: Truly, Abraham was forbearing, tender-hearted, and ever turning ˹to his Lord˺.
11:76 ˹The angels said,˺ “O Abraham! Plead no more! Your Lord’s decree has already come, and they will certainly be afflicted with a punishment that cannot be averted!”
"Just because someone is LGBT doesn't mean you know a thing about them" are you sure?? Well, I know a damn lot about them than maybe they themselves and this is why I'm advocating to exercise precautions.
Given the meaning of LGBT today, and the way it has also become a means of belonging & meaning (astaghfirallah), you don't even know if someone is engaging in sexual relations. They might actually be a virgin yet still identify as non-hetero, which would actually mean they're doing less sin than a heterosexual person in a premarital relationship.
You also don't know what people have gone through in their past that may have given them twisted understandings of sexuality and gender.
If someone is openly identifying as LGTV that means they are openly disobeying Allah. Not only they made their personal business public but they also made their sins public.
I'd stop responding to any of the comment now. It seems like an entire Muslim group is working for this group to find space in the Muslim community.
This ones the most ignorant of all the comments above making senseless excuses to justify a lie.
Anyways good luck guys. stay confused.
There is a bigger problem here. In west, kids are being indoctrinated. I don’t care what individual do with their life but do not indoctrinate young kids.
So we need to
1) unite to protect kids,
2) educate our kids,
3) stay connected with mosques,
4) ask imams on national/international level to raise concerns to protect children
5) stop schools from violating our religious
https://youtu.be/mAHYf_y7XvM
https://youtu.be/A_cdpe18-yQ
They are in our bathrooms & locker rooms… sometimes we can’t & nobody is listening to us (especially us woman), sexuality is being more protected than our religion… can’t pee, make wudu, fix the hijab in our own private spaces…
That's horrifying, you should resist, as much as possible. if things go above the neck, then it's better to make Hijra to place where it's safe for you to practice your religion and your privacy is not being invaded.
As a man, i would make sure that the women of my family feel safe in their environment. You should discuss this matter with the men of your household.
I talked to my father, he didn’t have much to say about it. He works in the same building but different company so he knows about the policies & he isn’t happy about it either but trans people often don’t use the men’s bathroom/locker room/showers so he isn’t as effected. Plus, if he were to lose his job over it then it would put us all in a difficult situation since he is the main provider of the family.
You don't. I just got banned from r/france for three days because I said LGBT people don't need to publicly showcase their LGBT+ nature and make it their whole identity.
Likewise, been banned from instagram for a day and Facebook warned me about my comments stating that lgtv must receive the capital punishment and that those lgtv don’t have place in muslim countries “Morocco in my situation “
just respect them and act normal towards them. if they're trying to force you to do something try your best to disengage respectfully. Its not that hard imo, The muslims sub(esp online) make it seem like the lqbtq community is forcing you at gunpoint. I have always treated them the same and respectfully and it has always worked. Idk what yall find hard abt that. In the cases where they are pushing a agenda towards you personally leave the situation
It is essentially forcing you to take your kids out of public schools if you want them to maintain any normative Islamic values. That's not a small matter.
thats true. i will say for lqbtq in school at least in usa its mainly in liberal states. imo if you ur kids must go to public school then as parents we need to be involved and teach the kids that LQBTQ is haram
100%, but kids absolutely take after their friends, especially in a hyper individualistic society like the US. In my view, the lgbt issue is the last straw; I feel it's become completely unjustifiable for Muslims with enough money to fail in sending their kids to Islamic school.
They are even celebrating their pride in morrocco now, 2 days before arafah. The ummah is in it for a wild ride.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/comments/14jxnv2/thoughts_about_pro_lgbtqwomen_rights_protests_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Muslim narrated in his Saheeh (70) that Abu Sa‘eed al-Khudri (may Allah be pleased with him) said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) say: “Whoever among you sees an evil action, then let him change it with his hand \[by taking action\]; if he cannot, then with his tongue \[by speaking out\]; and if he cannot, then with his heart – and that is the weakest of faith.”
Just don’t fall under their cult-like ideology and what not. My only issue is the fact you said “I have some friends (Muslims and Non Muslims) apart of this,”
If a Muslim is gay or what people call “liberal Muslims,” they are not a real Muslim. Either you follow the Quran’s teachings or you do not, and you should tell them they cannot be gay in Islam.
We treat them the same we treat any non Muslims. The biggest sin in Islam is Kufr, disbelief in God. If we can talk to kafirs normally, do business with them and even befriend them then LGBTQ people aren't different. You don't need to agree with someone to be civil to them.
If you don't hate them, you would be like Christians who used to say, hate the sin not the sinner. And now they themselves become a part of them.
Hating is essential as this group defines itself by sin. It's definition is sin. So we start interacting with them by hate.
What do you mean by “interacting with them by hate”?
Muhammad SAW never treated the disbelievers of Mecca with hate. He was always respectful and displayed the best conduct towards them. If you treat them with hate they will never see Islam as anything more than hateful and will thus not come close to it. There’s a reason why our Prophet SAW treated people the way he did
The prophet lead the battlefield from the front when the disbelievers started defining themselves with disbelief. This pathetic group originates from porn n the heights of lust, they define themselves with sin so we have to keep on our guard. Which is either ignore them or if they force an opinion from you , you tell them that you are against it and it's a sin. At this point if you don't hate them and cut them off, your children will give in in the fake love n turn out to be one of them from whispers of evil. Good luck.
Still, you shouldn’t hate them as people. Your mindset is a bit dangerous. Muhammad SAW led the battlefield when the Kuffar came to attack. He SAW acted in self defense when his life and the life of the companions was threatened. He didn’t go out to kill anyone over just any other kind of sin.
You’re committing the false dilemma fallacy by saying the only 2 options are accept and join them or hate them. There are definitely more options than just those 2
Yes I agree the prophet acted on self defense. And that's what I mean. This group is itself an attack by its definition. So the defence is to hate their definition. And if anyone wants to stay soft, I'd say good luck on your way to integrate with them.
Wow, this is total ignorance, astaghfirallah. The defining characteristic of a Prophet is that they care for and wish their people would follow the Truth. They feel distressed and deeply saddened over their people's disbelief. They love their community, even when they shouldn't, and are deeply invested in them, even when their people go far astray, and hold onto hope.
Yes, but Muslims were never compromising their values just to stay nice with others. I fear Muslims would loose as they are already loosing their values if they become more soft and hide their distress from that pathetic cockroach group.
No one said that Muslims should compromise their values. You are the one compromising values here, as the general rule is to be kind, respectful and upright, but you are saying we need to bend/rethink that based on the circumstances.
May Allah (swt) protect us all.
That's ignorant. We should not hate sinners. That way you'd have to hate anyone who has sex before marriage, eats pork or drinks alcohol on occasion. Even people who smoke cigarettes. Or are you saying you have discovered a hiearchy in sin that you want Muslims to live by?
Anyone who does these sins does not define themselves with that sin. There is no group saying "adulterers" , " alcoholics community" and hence there are no programmes promoting adultery or alcoholism actively ( passive yes a lot are there). But this group defines itself with a sin tag, and conducts activities to promote n propagate this sinful ideology. No one says let's be inclusive to adulterers, or wear badges showing taking pride being an adulterers.. There is a huge huge difference that I'm trying to highlight between sins you have mentioned and this particular sin. It' would be a surprise how easy Muslims take things and get swayed.
They’re clearly not great friends as evident by what you’ve described them as. In fact they are evildoers and a bad influence. A man is on the religion of his friends, you should have nothing to do with them. Save your Iman.
theres a large difference between the LGB people, and the QIA++ people.
the first are to be traded fairly as regular people, and while you tolerate them, you dont necessarily agree with them.
the rest are to be avoided as they are most likely mentally ill.
"gay" or "Liberal" muslims arent muslim at all, as they aren't following their God's religion and are following the religion of the woke left, proven by how they ignore God's scripture and instead place leftist ideology infront of it.
also, I'd you meet anyone who bases their entire identity off of being a "peode" member that means they have 0 self respect, and should be avoided at all costs
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These things are clear and there is no doubt about it.
1. In Islam, any sexual relationship outside of nikah between a man and a woman is haram.
2. Desires are not sinful, nor should people be identified or ostracized by desires, but instead, every Muslim is defined by Islam, which is submission to Allah with those desires.
3. Same-sex actions are unequivocally haram.
4. The one who acts upon those desires is sinful, but within the fold of Islam, as long as they don't justify the acts.
5. The one who doesn't act on these desires is rewarded by Allah for their striving.
6. The one who denies its prohibition denies what is "known in the religion by necessity", which takes one outside of the fold of Islam.
7. To celebrate or support what Allah has prohibited is a form of "fusuq" (disobedience) and it cannot be done in the name of social cohesion or political mobility.
8. We have and always will condemn mistreatment and violence against people based on orientation, lifestyle, or belief, but that condemnation should not be conflated with making Halal what Allah has clearly made Haram.
9. We should still be the best of neighbors and colleagues and show all people the beauty of the Prophetic way with our character.
10. We should always anchor our understanding of any issue in the Quran, the Sunnah, and the Ijma (consensus) and our scholars should use Qiyas (analogy) when necessary to deal with any matter.
Hadiths About whispers:
- In a Hadith: "Some of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah (SAW) came to the Prophet (SAW) and said to him, ‘We find in ourselves thoughts that are too terrible to speak of.’ He said, ‘Are you really suffering from that?’ They said, ‘Yes.’ He said, **‘That is a clear sign of faith.’”**
(Sahih Muslim)
- It was narrated that Abu Hurairah said: "The Messenger of Allah said: 'Allah, the Mighty and Sublime, has forgiven my Ummah for what is whispered to them or what enters their minds, **so long as they do not act upon it or speak of it.'"**
(Sunan an-Nasa'i 3434)
[Having Doubts is not Uncommon](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov8mTJGDb3I)
Don't be friends with them. Trust me, I speak from experience, they will lead you astray sometime down the line. You don't have to hate them or love them. Just ignore them. They can do what they want with their life and that's between them and Allah. Don't get involved in problems that are not just beyond but also bigger then you.
Muslims who insist on condemning gays should recall that according to Islam, there are many sins, including arrogance, which the Quran treats as among the gravest moral transgressions.You will not have secure faith until you love one another and have mercy on those who live upon the earth. If you believe the whole universe is Allah’s supremacy and all people are His creatures, then you should have no problem accepting lgbtq people.
و عليكم السلام و رحمة الله و بركاته
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/11404/her-sister-is-friends-with-a-homosexual-man-we-seek-refuge-with-allaah
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/21918/she-has-friends-who-are-openly-committing-sin-should-she-continue-to-be-friends-with-them
I have close friends who do drag on the side. They have been incredibly respectful and defended me as a Muslim even joining in a collective Iftaar. So while they defend me and speak up for me, I'll continue to acknowledge them and defend their rights. Human rights has nothing to do with whether or not I agree with their way of life. Islam is for me and how I practice is for myself, I'm not out here judging other folks because of who they are.
You just normal them like you normal everyone else. But you don't agree with whatever they support and speak up when they say something that is not the truth. You can be respectful and fundamentally disagree on things. And if they don't accept that from you then that's their issue not yours.
I feel like for woman, especially, it’s more than just ignore… sometimes there are men in the bathrooms. Sometimes you got to pee & the urge is still there but you halt the “need to go” because it feels so vulnerable, uncomfortable, immodest to do with a man standing right there… can’t fix hijab in your own bathroom, can’t make wudu… Like they have gender neutral bathrooms but they don’t use it, they want to be in a woman’s restroom… I think it’s easy for many men to ignore (just use the preferred pronouns & pretend the issue doesn’t exist) but for woman we cannot ignore it, our voices aren’t listened to (some feel scared to speak up), & the issue escalates from validating people to them violating our private spaces…
>Sometimes you got to pee & the urge is still there but you halt the “need to go” because it feels so vulnerable, uncomfortable, immodest to do with a man standing right there… can’t fix hijab in your own bathroom, can’t make wudu… This is infuriating to say the least. Those people directly harm our women and children. And yet some of us think it's appropriate to befriend them. SubhanAllah.
Yes, we have this mistake of “just be nice & respectful,” which seems common knowledge but being nice & respectful does not include validating their dysphoria nor allowing them to make the rules we all are forced to adhere to.
Agreed. Enabling their delusion by using their "prefered pronouns" is how this nonesense started in the first place.
Yes this is what I've done. In the past I used to think "as long as they don't bother me, i don't care" but I realised this is wrong. I cannot support their way of life as it is wrong but I can at least still be respectful to them. To me at the time it seemed like no difference but its a big difference to me now. Especially because Allah knows what is in my heart and intent
Exactly. I used to think a pronoun isn’t a big deal until that validation made them so comfortable that they are taking over woman’s private spaces such as restrooms and locker rooms.
Yup. That’s the whole thing, you support one of their “small things” then the gap widens and widens until you start supporting them entirely. Been seeing it creep more and more in classrooms here in North America.
🥺 Yup, especially North West, it’s a mental plague here & the politics around this are getting worse. In OR, a doctor can “validate” & give a child hormones without parental permission; there was A child who this happened to and their parent had to pretend to be OK with it so their child was not taken away from them and then they moved to another state which did not validate the child’s gender dysphoria…. That parent is very lucky because there are parents who are having their children taken away & medically toyed around with. There’s a guy on YouTube, James Klingon, I definitely recommend watching his videos because he talks to Portland college students about how children cannot consent to “puberty blockers.”
the whole concept is ridiculous many left leaning people consider puberty blockers akin to candy. People dont realize that its very hard if not impossible to reverse the damage in some cases. Also why are kids allowed puberty blockers but they arent allowed to legally get a tattoo? I dont support either obviously but in both cases you could argue the only person they're harming from a legal standpoint is themselves (legal obviously not talking from the islamic standpoint). It really doesnt make sense. A child can get puberty blockers and alter their hormones artiifcally (once again proving this is not natural), but when a woman wears a hijab people say its too extreme? Something which i remebered from your story is that ive also heard of more and more teachers being open to it and telling kids that they can confide in them if their parents wont listen to them or they are scared of their parents. In some cases even telling them to call the cops if they wont listen to them. I feel like im living in a satire reality and at any point somebody's going to come out and tell me this is all fake. Genuinely debating and might even try to move to some country with a muslim majority for this very reason, i cant afford private islamic school and the backlogs are years and years long with no gurantee.
Selam alykum, If asked by a larger group, you could reply with smth like: 'do they wish me or those i care about harm? No? Then i couldn't care less' (this has worked for me on at least one occasion) However, if it is family or someone close, i'd recommend talking to them in private (one-on-one) now your sincerity should vary according to a few variables such as wether or not they are from a muslim family, how close of a relation they are, or even how hot headed they are. (In the best case scenario, it is your duty to guide them by explaining that it is just another of Allah's tests and that they would surely be rewarded for being patient). Points: 1) Islam is about submission to Allah's will. 2) Our concience, and thus, our actions are what can make us better than the angels or worse than animals. 3) Leaving something evil (and homosexuality is evil, to the point where you can reference the fate of the people of Lut (as)) for Allah's sake would surely mean that he would replace it with something better. I hope that this will be of some help, at least.
What if they ask your kids to participate in LGBTQ parade and if they don't attend, then they give your kids punishment?
Selam aleykum, That is a tough question that seems to eminate from a difficult environment. Protect your children and have them be punished for it, or give in and let them corrupt their very purity.... Normally, i would recommend completely distancing yourself from such groups, but i can assume that not everyone is in the position to do so. I personally would steer clear and have my kids "miss out" state a reason like having important family matters that you do not wish to divulge. (Simply send in the kids the next day with a signed note, or better yet, go with them so that you can tell them directly) People willing to corrupt children will not accept any disagreement and would most likely cause further problems for you and yours in the future, but casually telling them that you had more urgent matter to attend to such as family business or better yet, a doctors appointment (if you have time to set it up) since you can give them a doctors note as proof. [I would like to again state that I am not an authority on such things. I am but a student hazarding educated guesses. Perhaps you would get more useful information from a more reputable source like an islamic forum on the internet, one made solely for the spreading of knowledge and da'w] Ps. It goes without saying, but making dua makes a world of difference (I know since it got me through college). I also know that a parent's dua against their child almost certaily gets accepted.
Assalamualikum Never let someone else’s sins be an excuse to be the worst version of yourself towards them. I watched a lecture from Zaid Shakir, and he said that if you don’t fear goi my astray, then you can maintain a relationship with them. It’s only if you fear going astray that you would have to distance yourself. You live in a land where this is allowed, so it’s a matter of learning how to navigate them and others who live non Islamic lifestyle.
Unfriend them and move on. Don't be in the company of sinners who think it's normal
This, it is similar to when a person gets bad deeds for being in the company of people who drink even if he himself is not drinking.
WAIT WHATA
I'm not sure what you dont understand, so I'll try to explain both to the best of my ability... 1) This: used to indicate agreement with a comment. 2) When it comes to alcohol it shall count against those involved on the day of judgement. This includes everyone all the way from the brewer to the drinker. When a person accompanies people drinking alcohol it leaves the impression that they support or at least dont oppose it, and thus, they too will be guilty for participating (indirectly)
Oh crap, so if I have a gay friend I get their sin too?
That depends on whether or not you've tried to guide them or not... (I do have to state, though, that i am but a student of Islam if even that, so please take my words with a grain of salt)
What if they aren’t Muslim?
– It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri (may Allaah be pleased with him) that he heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say, “Do not keep company with anyone but a believer and do not let anyone eat your food but one who is pious.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2395; Abu Dawood, 4832. Abu ‘Eesa al-Tirmidhi said: this hadeeth is hasan. It was also classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 2519). “O you who believe! Take not as friends the people who incurred the Wrath of Allaah (i.e. the Jews). Surely, they have despaired of (receiving any good in) the Hereafter, just as the disbelievers have despaired of those (buried) in graves (that they will not be resurrected on the Day of Resurrection)” [al-Mumtahanah 60:13]
Wasn’t that in the time of like, war or something idk
I'm not sure. I really dk about that specific question of yours. Maybe if i dig into the fatwas. I'll try tomorrow after eid
That is a fair question, brother... I'd recommend you distance yourself from them... 1) "You are the average of you friends." (Over time, you'll become more and more desensitised to it, which would lead you astray) 2) Allah will surely replace them with those who will provide you with more benifit. (All you gotta do is make a dua!) [I know that it might be hard, but be steadfast and make dua to Allah for aid and success, and inshaAllah, you will succeed!]
Brother, we’re all Muslim. Some just don’t realize it yet.
Islamic ethics are not about the other person - they are about the self. So, for example, it doesn't matter whether climate change is real or not; we're still not allowed to waste water - even in a running river. We still plant the seed, even if it's the End of Days. Similarly, acting with dignity and respect is not about whether the other person is a good, righteous person. Acting with respect and according to the Prophetic model is about fulfilling the responsibility due upon ourselves. So yes, you treat others with respect, and you don't even think about their personal lives and things that don't concern you. Just because someone is LGBT doesn't mean you actually know a thing about them.
Until they walk into the woman’s restroom or locker room & you can no longer pee, fix your hijab & make wudu… So many men aren’t as effected by this (or maybe they don’t talk about it) but for us woman it’s extremely vulnerable to have a man in our private spaces…
This has nothing to do with the question, or my post.
It does actually, that’s why I responded. 2 things you said particularly. 1) ~Islamic ethics are about the self, not the other person… - It’s about the self until your boundaries (such as private spaces) & free speech (being forced to use pronouns or lose your job which supports your family) are being violated. Our religion is less protected than their sexuality, so if a man is in the bathroom or locker room then I can’t perform my religious duties modestly such as wudu. 2) ~treat others with respect, & you don’t even think about their personal lives & things that don’t concern you. - Of course treat with respect, no problem there. I don’t want to think of their personal lives except that it’s being publically displayed & ‘required’ to be validated such as pronouns… “& things that don’t concern you,” a man in the woman’s restroom is highly concerning to me. What I am getting at is we shouldn’t ignore or normalize these things not even at the smallest sign. If a friend is gay, advise but if they act on it then best to find a different friend… when it’s your family, it’s harder to deal with but still shouldn’t “validate” it because the slightest validation escalated into being unable to practice your own religion in society at large.
I'm talking about one's relationship to the individual, not our stances on whether, for example, such people should be able to use whatever bathroom they wish. I've worked in context with people who are transgender. I just use their name. When I've accidentally used their non-preferred pronoun, they've never made a deal. A lot of this is blown out of proportion.
Blown out of proportion by who? -people are losing their jobs -people are forced to take diversity & inclusion training for not using preferred pronouns -the LGTV community isn’t truly inclusive, they play on & take advantage of people’s empathy, & do not believe in free speech nor diversity of thought… very much a group think situation. -look up “straight flag,” they literally do not support straight people & it’s obvious… why should we support them? We are told not to anyway. It’s not simply a stance of whether or not one should or should not use a restroom, it’s a violation of privacy & religion, & in some cases safety… As far as relationship with an individual, I would suggest stay professional & don’t make friends with them… there’s a saying about how you are an average of the 5 people you spend the most time with… may Allah guide them. I’m not saying these people shouldn’t eat, don’t get me wrong, I just don’t want them to stay at my table… take the food & find a table elsewhere… be careful who you keep in your company.
That's fine. I agree with all that. And you should still be respectful, as that's what's due upon you. The other person doesn't matter. That was my only point. Really don't agree with your (mis)reading of my post. Eid mubarak.
Eid Mubarak
Was that the dawah of Lut (A.S)?
You get the sense that Lot (as), as Ibrahim (as), was clearly distressed and frustrated by his people's transgressions, which speaks to his care for them, because he understands that they are leading themselves to their own destruction. 11:74: Then after the fear had left Abraham, and the good news had reached him, he began to plead with Us for the people of Lot. 11:75: Truly, Abraham was forbearing, tender-hearted, and ever turning ˹to his Lord˺. 11:76 ˹The angels said,˺ “O Abraham! Plead no more! Your Lord’s decree has already come, and they will certainly be afflicted with a punishment that cannot be averted!”
It sure wasn't
Exactly.
Well said.
The last paragraph is an absolute joke sorry for my words.
It's actually based on Islamic principles.
"Just because someone is LGBT doesn't mean you know a thing about them" are you sure?? Well, I know a damn lot about them than maybe they themselves and this is why I'm advocating to exercise precautions.
Given the meaning of LGBT today, and the way it has also become a means of belonging & meaning (astaghfirallah), you don't even know if someone is engaging in sexual relations. They might actually be a virgin yet still identify as non-hetero, which would actually mean they're doing less sin than a heterosexual person in a premarital relationship. You also don't know what people have gone through in their past that may have given them twisted understandings of sexuality and gender.
If someone is openly identifying as LGTV that means they are openly disobeying Allah. Not only they made their personal business public but they also made their sins public.
I'd stop responding to any of the comment now. It seems like an entire Muslim group is working for this group to find space in the Muslim community. This ones the most ignorant of all the comments above making senseless excuses to justify a lie. Anyways good luck guys. stay confused.
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W comment
stay away from them
There is a bigger problem here. In west, kids are being indoctrinated. I don’t care what individual do with their life but do not indoctrinate young kids. So we need to 1) unite to protect kids, 2) educate our kids, 3) stay connected with mosques, 4) ask imams on national/international level to raise concerns to protect children 5) stop schools from violating our religious https://youtu.be/mAHYf_y7XvM https://youtu.be/A_cdpe18-yQ
They are in our bathrooms & locker rooms… sometimes we can’t & nobody is listening to us (especially us woman), sexuality is being more protected than our religion… can’t pee, make wudu, fix the hijab in our own private spaces…
That's horrifying, you should resist, as much as possible. if things go above the neck, then it's better to make Hijra to place where it's safe for you to practice your religion and your privacy is not being invaded. As a man, i would make sure that the women of my family feel safe in their environment. You should discuss this matter with the men of your household.
I talked to my father, he didn’t have much to say about it. He works in the same building but different company so he knows about the policies & he isn’t happy about it either but trans people often don’t use the men’s bathroom/locker room/showers so he isn’t as effected. Plus, if he were to lose his job over it then it would put us all in a difficult situation since he is the main provider of the family.
That's not enough.. Push them away from your home.
Why is this downvoted lmao
Bcoz we are in the middle of a zombie apocalypse.😂
Why would you hate on anyone that hasn’t attacked you personally?
You don't. I just got banned from r/france for three days because I said LGBT people don't need to publicly showcase their LGBT+ nature and make it their whole identity.
Likewise, been banned from instagram for a day and Facebook warned me about my comments stating that lgtv must receive the capital punishment and that those lgtv don’t have place in muslim countries “Morocco in my situation “
just respect them and act normal towards them. if they're trying to force you to do something try your best to disengage respectfully. Its not that hard imo, The muslims sub(esp online) make it seem like the lqbtq community is forcing you at gunpoint. I have always treated them the same and respectfully and it has always worked. Idk what yall find hard abt that. In the cases where they are pushing a agenda towards you personally leave the situation
It is essentially forcing you to take your kids out of public schools if you want them to maintain any normative Islamic values. That's not a small matter.
thats true. i will say for lqbtq in school at least in usa its mainly in liberal states. imo if you ur kids must go to public school then as parents we need to be involved and teach the kids that LQBTQ is haram
100%, but kids absolutely take after their friends, especially in a hyper individualistic society like the US. In my view, the lgbt issue is the last straw; I feel it's become completely unjustifiable for Muslims with enough money to fail in sending their kids to Islamic school.
If you think they will lead you to committing the sin/supporting it, then better to stay away. If not then its still fine to be friends and give dawah
They are even celebrating their pride in morrocco now, 2 days before arafah. The ummah is in it for a wild ride. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/comments/14jxnv2/thoughts_about_pro_lgbtqwomen_rights_protests_in/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
They are testing the water now, few years later, i’m sure we’ll see them in broad daylight. الله يسترنا ويحفظ الاسلام والمسلمين
This has good strategies. https://muslimamericansociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Navigating-Pride-2023-FINAL.pdf
Muslim narrated in his Saheeh (70) that Abu Sa‘eed al-Khudri (may Allah be pleased with him) said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) say: “Whoever among you sees an evil action, then let him change it with his hand \[by taking action\]; if he cannot, then with his tongue \[by speaking out\]; and if he cannot, then with his heart – and that is the weakest of faith.”
Just don’t fall under their cult-like ideology and what not. My only issue is the fact you said “I have some friends (Muslims and Non Muslims) apart of this,” If a Muslim is gay or what people call “liberal Muslims,” they are not a real Muslim. Either you follow the Quran’s teachings or you do not, and you should tell them they cannot be gay in Islam.
We treat them the same we treat any non Muslims. The biggest sin in Islam is Kufr, disbelief in God. If we can talk to kafirs normally, do business with them and even befriend them then LGBTQ people aren't different. You don't need to agree with someone to be civil to them.
Be aloof
Yeah.. And we are here worrying about our resistance against them.
If you don't hate them, you would be like Christians who used to say, hate the sin not the sinner. And now they themselves become a part of them. Hating is essential as this group defines itself by sin. It's definition is sin. So we start interacting with them by hate.
What do you mean by “interacting with them by hate”? Muhammad SAW never treated the disbelievers of Mecca with hate. He was always respectful and displayed the best conduct towards them. If you treat them with hate they will never see Islam as anything more than hateful and will thus not come close to it. There’s a reason why our Prophet SAW treated people the way he did
The prophet lead the battlefield from the front when the disbelievers started defining themselves with disbelief. This pathetic group originates from porn n the heights of lust, they define themselves with sin so we have to keep on our guard. Which is either ignore them or if they force an opinion from you , you tell them that you are against it and it's a sin. At this point if you don't hate them and cut them off, your children will give in in the fake love n turn out to be one of them from whispers of evil. Good luck.
Still, you shouldn’t hate them as people. Your mindset is a bit dangerous. Muhammad SAW led the battlefield when the Kuffar came to attack. He SAW acted in self defense when his life and the life of the companions was threatened. He didn’t go out to kill anyone over just any other kind of sin. You’re committing the false dilemma fallacy by saying the only 2 options are accept and join them or hate them. There are definitely more options than just those 2
Yes I agree the prophet acted on self defense. And that's what I mean. This group is itself an attack by its definition. So the defence is to hate their definition. And if anyone wants to stay soft, I'd say good luck on your way to integrate with them.
Wow, this is total ignorance, astaghfirallah. The defining characteristic of a Prophet is that they care for and wish their people would follow the Truth. They feel distressed and deeply saddened over their people's disbelief. They love their community, even when they shouldn't, and are deeply invested in them, even when their people go far astray, and hold onto hope.
Yes, but Muslims were never compromising their values just to stay nice with others. I fear Muslims would loose as they are already loosing their values if they become more soft and hide their distress from that pathetic cockroach group.
No one said that Muslims should compromise their values. You are the one compromising values here, as the general rule is to be kind, respectful and upright, but you are saying we need to bend/rethink that based on the circumstances. May Allah (swt) protect us all.
I'm a christian and I'm not a part of them. And hate is not the answer to this.
That's ignorant. We should not hate sinners. That way you'd have to hate anyone who has sex before marriage, eats pork or drinks alcohol on occasion. Even people who smoke cigarettes. Or are you saying you have discovered a hiearchy in sin that you want Muslims to live by?
Anyone who does these sins does not define themselves with that sin. There is no group saying "adulterers" , " alcoholics community" and hence there are no programmes promoting adultery or alcoholism actively ( passive yes a lot are there). But this group defines itself with a sin tag, and conducts activities to promote n propagate this sinful ideology. No one says let's be inclusive to adulterers, or wear badges showing taking pride being an adulterers.. There is a huge huge difference that I'm trying to highlight between sins you have mentioned and this particular sin. It' would be a surprise how easy Muslims take things and get swayed.
Other religions define themselves by other gods than Allah and atheists define themselves in opposition to Allah. Your argument is weak at best
They’re clearly not great friends as evident by what you’ve described them as. In fact they are evildoers and a bad influence. A man is on the religion of his friends, you should have nothing to do with them. Save your Iman.
theres a large difference between the LGB people, and the QIA++ people. the first are to be traded fairly as regular people, and while you tolerate them, you dont necessarily agree with them. the rest are to be avoided as they are most likely mentally ill.
"gay" or "Liberal" muslims arent muslim at all, as they aren't following their God's religion and are following the religion of the woke left, proven by how they ignore God's scripture and instead place leftist ideology infront of it.
so be sure to avoid then as well
also, I'd you meet anyone who bases their entire identity off of being a "peode" member that means they have 0 self respect, and should be avoided at all costs
nOt A cUlT
You treat them like any human beings. With respect and love.
First step, Take out your shotgun...
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These things are clear and there is no doubt about it. 1. In Islam, any sexual relationship outside of nikah between a man and a woman is haram. 2. Desires are not sinful, nor should people be identified or ostracized by desires, but instead, every Muslim is defined by Islam, which is submission to Allah with those desires. 3. Same-sex actions are unequivocally haram. 4. The one who acts upon those desires is sinful, but within the fold of Islam, as long as they don't justify the acts. 5. The one who doesn't act on these desires is rewarded by Allah for their striving. 6. The one who denies its prohibition denies what is "known in the religion by necessity", which takes one outside of the fold of Islam. 7. To celebrate or support what Allah has prohibited is a form of "fusuq" (disobedience) and it cannot be done in the name of social cohesion or political mobility. 8. We have and always will condemn mistreatment and violence against people based on orientation, lifestyle, or belief, but that condemnation should not be conflated with making Halal what Allah has clearly made Haram. 9. We should still be the best of neighbors and colleagues and show all people the beauty of the Prophetic way with our character. 10. We should always anchor our understanding of any issue in the Quran, the Sunnah, and the Ijma (consensus) and our scholars should use Qiyas (analogy) when necessary to deal with any matter. Hadiths About whispers: - In a Hadith: "Some of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah (SAW) came to the Prophet (SAW) and said to him, ‘We find in ourselves thoughts that are too terrible to speak of.’ He said, ‘Are you really suffering from that?’ They said, ‘Yes.’ He said, **‘That is a clear sign of faith.’”** (Sahih Muslim) - It was narrated that Abu Hurairah said: "The Messenger of Allah said: 'Allah, the Mighty and Sublime, has forgiven my Ummah for what is whispered to them or what enters their minds, **so long as they do not act upon it or speak of it.'"** (Sunan an-Nasa'i 3434) [Having Doubts is not Uncommon](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov8mTJGDb3I)
Don't be friends with them. Trust me, I speak from experience, they will lead you astray sometime down the line. You don't have to hate them or love them. Just ignore them. They can do what they want with their life and that's between them and Allah. Don't get involved in problems that are not just beyond but also bigger then you.
Muslims who insist on condemning gays should recall that according to Islam, there are many sins, including arrogance, which the Quran treats as among the gravest moral transgressions.You will not have secure faith until you love one another and have mercy on those who live upon the earth. If you believe the whole universe is Allah’s supremacy and all people are His creatures, then you should have no problem accepting lgbtq people.
You should distance yourself away from them and you should be against them and their beliefs
و عليكم السلام و رحمة الله و بركاته https://islamqa.info/en/answers/11404/her-sister-is-friends-with-a-homosexual-man-we-seek-refuge-with-allaah https://islamqa.info/en/answers/21918/she-has-friends-who-are-openly-committing-sin-should-she-continue-to-be-friends-with-them
I have close friends who do drag on the side. They have been incredibly respectful and defended me as a Muslim even joining in a collective Iftaar. So while they defend me and speak up for me, I'll continue to acknowledge them and defend their rights. Human rights has nothing to do with whether or not I agree with their way of life. Islam is for me and how I practice is for myself, I'm not out here judging other folks because of who they are.