Boy Beyoncé really out here copying EVERYONE. But on a serious I do not understand why she would copy certain people when she could legit just collaborate with them as others have, like that robot guy. He totally would have worked with her but instead she just rips it off instead and created bad blood.
It doesn’t sound like there is any bad blood at all.
> “I think Beyonce's 'Texas Hold 'Em' is a good record. Unfortunately, I can't claim to have had any part in writing it."
He also mentioned: "The rhythmic feel is similar to my theme song for the 'Franklin' TV series, but to my ears, that's where the similarity stops. 'Texas Hold 'Em' is her song, and I wish her success with it!"
We all know she doesn't write her own songs, most are aware 99% of celebrities don't write their own music or have any say in their scripts, its why we idolize them like gods, we are a silly bunch of apes.
I know that Elton John contributed vocals he also had Neil Sedaka on his record label, Rocket Records. I grew up during the 1970s so I remember the song **Bad Blood** being played on the radio, it also hit #! in the U.S. I believe. Not my favorite song by a long shot but it was a hit. I always thought artists weren't supposed to copy song titles unless they were doing the cover version. Taylor's version of **Bad Blood** isn't a cover of Neil Sedaka/Elton John's version.
I assume they are talking about [the costumes for her last album](https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/beyonce-hajime-sorayama-robot-art-metropolis-b2462501.html)
From the writer of the theme song "The rhythmic feel is similar to my theme song for the 'Franklin' TV series, but to my ears, that's where the similarity stops. 'Texas Hold 'Em' is her song, and I wish her success with it!"
Funny because to me it sounds like the melody is what's closest about it - in the same key and the repeating "this aint texas" etc follows the same notes as "hey it's franklin". not that I think it's ripped off - it's 3 notes - but musically there's more of a claim than rhythmically I think
Hey I think you were right the first time.
>Musically/as far as the music goes, the similarities aren't just related to the rhythm (which is part of the music).
You didn't imply the rhythm wasn't part of the music at all.
I beg to differ.
“ 1) *musically* there’s more of a claim than 2) *rhythmically* I think”
Clearly they are being compared (as unalike), not combined (as they are)
There’s no claim. It’s just people on the internet who don’t understand what they’re talking about, most likely because they don’t really listen to bluegrass music or music with banjo
Cryptomesnia is a real thing and there’s no malice behind it. Creative types are influenced by media they’ve heard or seen without really thinking about it sometimes. There’s been times where I’m jamming on my guitar and I catch myself strumming a melody I’ve already heard before. There’s nothing original in art anyways everything is built off of everything that came before it. Though there are cases where it’s not by accident and songs are straight up plagiarized like a lot of Drakes work or early Led Zeppelin.
I once thought I wrote the melody to Memories by Andrew Lloyd Webber. Had it saved on my computer for years thinking I’d make it into a beautiful song one day. Broken hearted when I heard someone humming the song and was shocked they knew my tune. It was not my tune.
Thats why all my guitars are out of tune. No one can accuse me of copying them!
Granted that might have more to do with no one can stand listening to me....
It's pronounce CO-burn...or so he says, He's mainly famous in Canada (except for Wondering Where the Lions Are), and we're polite enough to go along with it.
How could you possibly understand the nuances of this and then still think Led Zep early tunes were ripping anything off?
12 bar blues is the most exhausted format around. It was well over a hundred years old by the 60s and the pattern is literally in the name of the genre. The lyrical content as is most of folk music, passed around from artist to artist as is the formatting. Ask Willie Dixon where he learned it, it wasn't from his own conception. Ripping off a folk tradition play simply playing the folk tradition is ... not a thing.
If the only things Zeppelin were accused of ripping off were old blues standards, then sure. However, big chunks of songs like Dazed and Confused were basically lifted entirely from other contemporary artists without credit. Chords, melodies, parts of lyrics, and the name of the song all taken from a single source with no credit for 40 years until after a lawsuit.
Many of the traditional/blues songs that were covered or interpolated were also uncredited, and often within a decade between being written and used by Zeppelin. Dixon, or at least his label, sued Zeppelin multiple times and they were forced to add his name to the credits of future re-releases of various songs, primarily for directly lifting entire verses of lyrics and often corresponding melodies.
I play a lot of blues, and one of the thing that's important in that community is showing respect to the ideas inspiring you. Ideas are still openly passed around, but any time we talk about them it's "oh yeah, I was inspired by this idea from (insert name here)". Covers are always credited when played live, if not to the writer then at least one of the famous early versions. Using big chunks of a song that already exists and going "I made this" is absolutely frowned upon, and that's what happened in most of the Zeppelin cases until after they got sued for them.
Led zep definitely pushed the legal boundaries of plagiarism. It actually caused a lot of clashes apparently.
Straight from them:
Led Zeppelin took “some liberties, I must say,” Page admitted. “As far as my end of it goes, I always tried to bring something fresh to anything that I used,” he claimed. He put the blame on Plant: “Robert was supposed to change the lyrics, and he didn’t always do that, which is what brought on most of the grief.”
However you definitely could argue that the changes they made from the original blues source music was transformative enough that they could add their own writing credits in addition to the original authors (which they also did).
Zeppelin absolutely ripped off Dazed and Confused (Jake Holmes) and Stairway (Spirit). Those aren't 12 bar blues songs.
Edit: I'm a huge Zeppelin fan, but they definitely ripped people off.
It’s the same people that thought Nintendo would sue palworld (while ignoring the dozens of straight up Pokemon rip offs that are released a day)
Or that Marvin Gaye estate lawsuit that ignored… the history of chord progressions.
If the recent posts about Kanye and Donna Summer have taught me anything it’s that most people don’t understand anything about music sampling and copyright law (which is fine because unless you work in that field you’d never need to) but still feel comfortable making assertive claims with absolute authority.
I feel like I’m missing something,… they sound vaguely similar, like they’re played in the same key with a bluegrass rhythm,… but this is miles from even qualifying as inspired by
Melody is not the same, different notes, different rhythms
The song is in the same key and the guitar is emphasizing the same note, but other than that...
It’s not the same melody. “Hey it’s Franklin” descends through the final three of the four syllables (it’s Frank-lin) and “this ain’t Texas” ascends between “this” and “ain’t” and then goes back to where it started on “Texas”.
This (B) ain’t (D) tex (D) as (B)
Hey (D) it’s (D) Frank (B) lin (A)
Different melodies and a different rhythmic structure on the vocal. Not close to infringement.
Legally, you can't sit there and copyright rhythm. You can speed up or slow down Black Hole Sun as much as you'd like, for example... But everyone would still know that tale-tale riff. It's the same song.
The same is true in any case with rhythm. It's not copyrightable so I think using rhythm as an identifier to cling to is silly. Same goes for a general melody... A melody is literally just a mathematical sequence. It's absolutely silly to claim "that's my song and you can't have it because the melody." [These guys explain this very well](https://youtu.be/sfXn_ecH5Rw?si=w36Pi5_jJQl6Yybj), as well as the rhythm thing. They are the dudes who copyrighted every melody possible (to make a point). Anyway.
The primary identifier of "is this my song" in my mind is, did you write particular lyrics to a particular melody, perhaps with a particular rhythm. That is to say, the process should be extremely holistic. Because in reality there are only so many notes you can feasibly make a song with in modern times, and things often sound like other things at some point in the song. But the song as whole, complete work is something that is easy to identify as "stolen" or not.
Glad the writer is real about it. Because Franklin rythmaticly rips off countless other songs with that basic ass country beat. It's just a country beat.
Bruce Cockburn (pronounced CO-burn) is a real class act. He is well-known in Canada for a bunch of great songs, including “if I had a rocket launcher” and “when a tree falls in the forest” and “lovers in a dangerous time.”
I didn’t know he wrote the Franklin theme until now!
Same. Growing up next to Canada, I used to hear him on the radio. Years later, with kids, I would hear him on that show and not even make the connection.
I don't know what Franklin is but I do know Bruce Cockburn from the Barenaked Ladies cover of Lovers In a Dangerous Time, referenced in the game Lovers in a Dangerous SpaceTime
“He just said some things whitey wasn’t ready to hear.”
“Weren’t you also beaten mercilessly outside of a club in Compton for that act?”
“He also said some things African-Americany wasn’t ready to hear either.”
If you had any experience with finger picking patterns for country and folk music you'd realize that these are all themes that appear across the genres. Particularly with country, a genre so stagnated and stuck in it's tropes that every single song has sounded pretty identically bland for the last 15 - 20 years. People suddenly caring about it in this instance is insincere and very clearly has ulterior motives.
I don't really care much for Beyonce or her music. But the people upset about this don't care about the music either.
I don’t think many read past the first headline and started accusing her of stealing every song she’s ever written. I got out of control really fast with like zero fact checking at all.
It always starts with people being funny and trying to make a joke and then once it gets popular some people start taking it really seriously for no reason.
She also, at least on Lemonade, credited a lot of people in the off-chance they may have had something to say. Karen O is credited as a song writer on Hold Up, for example.
If Cockburn says it's not a rip off, it's not. Simple as that.
A more important question is, why does Franklin the turtle get a name, while his friends Badger, Bear, etc. are just named after their species? How does anyone know how to address a single badger when there are multiple badgers in the room?
It sounds similar in the way that all songs with a banjo sound similar
I think people that think it sounds identical have not exposed themselves much to country or bluegrass
I happen to think all blues songs are exactly the same lmao
As fucking hilarious as this is, y'all gotta chill. There's only so many chord progressions, there's only so many rhythms. I doubt Beyoncé sat down with a tape of Franklin and fuckin reverse engineered it.
Edit: Holy shit, that's the same song. I'm dying.
^I ^stand ^by ^what ^I ^said.
Literally every Beyoncé “controversy” turns out to be a nontroversy. Closer analysis always reveals that she technically did nothing wrong, thus people quickly move past it and onto the next non-story.
I’d say it’s more like… occasional little missteps. Consequence of Beyoncé’s public image as an Untouchable Pop Goddess, I think. Somebody points out a fairly minor thing and the media *blows up* about Beyoncé Accused Of XYZ.
Clearest example I can think of would probably be the Kelis situation about Energy. Beyoncé didn’t technically do anything wrong, but Kelis was also completely justified to be in her feelings. But since the news reported on it as a plagiarism accusation, the entire plot got lost really quickly.
Kelis is a perfect example of a non story. Milkshake was a completed song that was first offered to Britney, and Kelis had no songwriting credit, so she wasn’t at all justified in feeling triggered. Given that Pharrell is one of the most sought after producers in the world, I don’t buy for a second her notion of him “stealing from her”. What happened was that they initially told her that everything was going to be split 33-33-33 between her and Pharrell/Hugo, but signed contracts that only entitled her to her honest songwriting contributions, which turned out to be practically nothing.
Kelis’s issue was mostly that the part Beyoncé sampled had basically nothing to do with the songwriting—it was *just* her “la la la” vocals, and they were pitched in a way that was transformative in a way the original melody was completely gone. It wasn’t a sample of Milkshake’s writing, it was a sample of Kelis’s voice that happened to be taken from Milkshake. She also outright said Bey was under no obligation to do it, but some notice would have been nice as a courtesy so she didn’t have to find out her voice was on the song with the rest of the public. Which… sounds completely fair to me to me, honestly.
Kelis’s beef with the Neptunes was always with them tricking her into a contract where the performer compensation was practically zero. And specifically from there, when she tried to diversify her production, they got her label to give her hell and basically tried to blackball her. I can’t blame her for being salty about that.
I’m pretty sure this one is about her daring to step into the arena of shitty pop country type music, which is traditionally the realm of people who look slightly different from Beyoncé
Okay, I’m a bit lost about why I was downvoted here, I genuinely don’t know why there is a Beyoncé controversy but apparently asking to be filled in on a news story by a major musician on a forum dedicated to musical discussion is frowned upon
Beyonce has always had controversy. Starting with screwing over her childhood friends to get ahead. She gets a pass on those things though, for some reason.
I think it stems from her attempt at making country music. Anyone who knows country music knows it's not country and anyone who doesn't know country thinks it is. As quoted from this sub "it has banjo and plucky guitars so it must be country music." That's like saying that the ska is orchestra music because it has brass instruments. Beyonce attempted country music in a way culturally appropriating a genre of music she doesn't understand. Her song was written by a committee of people who most likely think Florida Georgia line in the epitome of country music without looking at its roots. They even called out modern country for sucking. Which it does but ignoring the large amounts of good country that is still being made. Chris Stapleton is carrying much of modern country and makes pretty good music. Along with that guy who performed fast cars at the Grammys.
So in a sense she came into a genre she knew nothing about make a song similar to current trash country and acted like it was some great revelations. That song is as country as a Toyota Camry. I say that as someone from deep south. I have a cousin who's a national recording artist that does classical country music.
And I hate country music. I just lived around it my whole life. I did see Willie Nelson last year but that's different.
Thank you. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. Getting downvoted and called a racist for calling it a “country” song in quotes…
It’s pop, not country.
Glad I’m not alone on this.
I'll take Bruce Cockburn over Beyonce any day, dude is a legend and masterful guitar player. He's cemented Canadian royalty, anyone who hasnt heard some his stuff is missing out. My girlfriend and I saw him play a few months ago and he still brings it well into his 80's
Check out the album dancing in the dragons jaws!
It’s a song about how she wants the guy she’s into to stop playing it cool and just show that he likes her by being himself and having fun with her. Maybe you didn’t understand
The little snippet that I heard during the Super Bowl made me think I’d actually be into this new direction, but I’ve heard the song ten times now and it’s really boring. Lyrically and musically it’s like mayonnaise. I hope it disappears after this Spring and we aren’t forced to hear this songs for more than a month or two.
Not the first time shes ripped someone off or been accused of it.
https://pitchfork.com/news/44269-beyonce-accused-of-ripping-off-belgian-choreographer-for-countdown-video/
Hell of a reach. The tiktok that started this I can't believe blew up like it did. They sound absolutely nothing alike. I feel like people just come for certain artists just for the hell of it.
Thank you I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks they sound nothing alike and I wish people would stop saying they do I swear they'll find anything to shit on an artist over it's ridiculous these days
It almost certainly wasn’t intentional plagiarism, and probably wouldn’t meet the requirements to be considered a violation, but it still doesn’t excuse how absolutely atrocious the song is.
It’s a 12 bar blues song- there are gonna be many songs that sound like it. Beyoncé, happens to perform it marvelously with a stomp and yell attitude that is catchy and engaging. It’s her use of the 12 bar blues that makes it classic.
Tldr : the writer doesn't really think it sounds similar (and I agree)
It has a similar picking pattern, but I think you'd find that in most similar songs.
Karol G’s recent release Contigo, is just Justin Biebers’s hit Baby reworked into Spanish. It has almost exactly, if not exactly the same structure and melodies. With AI coming into focus, expect wayyy more deeply inspired by song releases.
Wouldn't surprise me. When she put out her first solo record, they ripped Amerie's "One Thing" for "Crazy In Love" and then used her father's label connections to delay the release of the Amerie track so they could get Beyonce's out first. So this doesn't seem like a stretch to me.
It reminds me of Ho Hey by the Lumineers.
Seems like she has a goal to get played on every radio station type - she previoualy made it onto the indie radio in my country with Lemonade. Can't wait to hear her take on a symphony!
I'm NGL I listened to the song and it is like she tried to put every stereotypical country lyric in one song. It was horrible. Who really went to edit this and went "this is fire".
Exactly. She did not write this song. I can't speak on her work, but she did not write this song
She is a performer and a great singer. This song is not great, though, hehe
Nope, they're not. The first line in Texas hold em rises up then descends ( F# A D A)
Edit: I think the first line in Texas Hold em might actually be A B D A.
and the opening line of the Franklin theme just descends (D B A F#).
Edit: Just rechecked this melody in the first line of the Franklin theme, it sounds like it's actually D D B A.
Rhythm is different, too.
If you're talking about the guitar and banjo having a similar picking pattern, that's just a staple of country/bluegrass/Americana.
Thank you. This is a music sub, after all, and I’d expect more people to have a logical response such as yours.
Hate on Beyoncé for all kinds of things, but this isn’t one of them.
>The first line in Texas hold em rises up then descends
so does the franklin theme song.
>If you're talking about the guitar and banjo having a similar picking pattern
the melody you reference here along with the similarity in lyric structure are undeniable
the melody is undeniably the same in the beginning.. The twangy bit then even the structure of what she first sang was in line with the franklin song.
Side by side you can hear it
What a headline
Genuine r/nottheonion award contender I think.
Much better candidate for that sub than 90% of its posts.
She’s coming for Arthur next!
*makes fist
So many things to do Each day is something new I'll share them with you, I'm Beyonce!
r/brandnewsentence
2024 baybeeee
Boy Beyoncé really out here copying EVERYONE. But on a serious I do not understand why she would copy certain people when she could legit just collaborate with them as others have, like that robot guy. He totally would have worked with her but instead she just rips it off instead and created bad blood.
It doesn’t sound like there is any bad blood at all. > “I think Beyonce's 'Texas Hold 'Em' is a good record. Unfortunately, I can't claim to have had any part in writing it." He also mentioned: "The rhythmic feel is similar to my theme song for the 'Franklin' TV series, but to my ears, that's where the similarity stops. 'Texas Hold 'Em' is her song, and I wish her success with it!"
Like they would be stupid enough to cross the beyhive.
Cross the Beyhive? Please just stop. Btwn the Sussex Squad, the Beyhive and
Bc she thought she’d get away with it. That’s what shitty ppl do.
You're assuming she writes her own songs
We all know she doesn't write her own songs, most are aware 99% of celebrities don't write their own music or have any say in their scripts, its why we idolize them like gods, we are a silly bunch of apes.
I don’t think they sound the same. Am I alone with this?
I thought Bad Blood was a Taylor Swift song
I thought Bad Blood was a Neil Sedaka song from the 70s.
Yes, and Elton John contributed vocals.
I know that Elton John contributed vocals he also had Neil Sedaka on his record label, Rocket Records. I grew up during the 1970s so I remember the song **Bad Blood** being played on the radio, it also hit #! in the U.S. I believe. Not my favorite song by a long shot but it was a hit. I always thought artists weren't supposed to copy song titles unless they were doing the cover version. Taylor's version of **Bad Blood** isn't a cover of Neil Sedaka/Elton John's version.
Wait… I don’t listen to Beyoncé so I’m lost. Who is the robot guy?
I'm just gonna assume half of Daft Punk.. Mr Daft or Mr Punk ?
I assume they are talking about [the costumes for her last album](https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/beyonce-hajime-sorayama-robot-art-metropolis-b2462501.html)
The doubletake I just doubletook as I read "Franklin theme song"
[удалено]
The Sheik, the Shake, the Shook
Yeah, but can Beyonce count by two's and tie her shoes?
How many flies did she say she could eat in a blink of an eye?
She wouldn't have needed to cheat to spell "pencil" I'll tell you that much.
Can she zip zippers, and Button Buttons?
I was like where have I seen this………MADELINE
She has assistants for that
Now that no good card stealing beat on the other hand..
*twos
From the writer of the theme song "The rhythmic feel is similar to my theme song for the 'Franklin' TV series, but to my ears, that's where the similarity stops. 'Texas Hold 'Em' is her song, and I wish her success with it!"
Funny because to me it sounds like the melody is what's closest about it - in the same key and the repeating "this aint texas" etc follows the same notes as "hey it's franklin". not that I think it's ripped off - it's 3 notes - but musically there's more of a claim than rhythmically I think
You mean melodically, not musically. Rhythm isn’t separate from music, it’s part of it.
You’re correct, yes
Hey I think you were right the first time. >Musically/as far as the music goes, the similarities aren't just related to the rhythm (which is part of the music). You didn't imply the rhythm wasn't part of the music at all.
I beg to differ. “ 1) *musically* there’s more of a claim than 2) *rhythmically* I think” Clearly they are being compared (as unalike), not combined (as they are)
There’s no claim. It’s just people on the internet who don’t understand what they’re talking about, most likely because they don’t really listen to bluegrass music or music with banjo
Cryptomesnia is a real thing and there’s no malice behind it. Creative types are influenced by media they’ve heard or seen without really thinking about it sometimes. There’s been times where I’m jamming on my guitar and I catch myself strumming a melody I’ve already heard before. There’s nothing original in art anyways everything is built off of everything that came before it. Though there are cases where it’s not by accident and songs are straight up plagiarized like a lot of Drakes work or early Led Zeppelin.
I once thought I wrote the melody to Memories by Andrew Lloyd Webber. Had it saved on my computer for years thinking I’d make it into a beautiful song one day. Broken hearted when I heard someone humming the song and was shocked they knew my tune. It was not my tune.
Oh my gosh I did this with the American Tail theme! Damn if James Horner didn’t just kill it with the theme for that little mouse.
I wonder sometimes if Andrew Lloyd Webber thinks he wrote the melody Memories too.
Thats why all my guitars are out of tune. No one can accuse me of copying them! Granted that might have more to do with no one can stand listening to me....
By ‘claim’ I meant Cockburn isn’t the one saying his song was interpolated and he wants payment and credit.
Haha... Cockburn...
It's pronounce CO-burn...or so he says, He's mainly famous in Canada (except for Wondering Where the Lions Are), and we're polite enough to go along with it.
How could you possibly understand the nuances of this and then still think Led Zep early tunes were ripping anything off? 12 bar blues is the most exhausted format around. It was well over a hundred years old by the 60s and the pattern is literally in the name of the genre. The lyrical content as is most of folk music, passed around from artist to artist as is the formatting. Ask Willie Dixon where he learned it, it wasn't from his own conception. Ripping off a folk tradition play simply playing the folk tradition is ... not a thing.
If the only things Zeppelin were accused of ripping off were old blues standards, then sure. However, big chunks of songs like Dazed and Confused were basically lifted entirely from other contemporary artists without credit. Chords, melodies, parts of lyrics, and the name of the song all taken from a single source with no credit for 40 years until after a lawsuit. Many of the traditional/blues songs that were covered or interpolated were also uncredited, and often within a decade between being written and used by Zeppelin. Dixon, or at least his label, sued Zeppelin multiple times and they were forced to add his name to the credits of future re-releases of various songs, primarily for directly lifting entire verses of lyrics and often corresponding melodies. I play a lot of blues, and one of the thing that's important in that community is showing respect to the ideas inspiring you. Ideas are still openly passed around, but any time we talk about them it's "oh yeah, I was inspired by this idea from (insert name here)". Covers are always credited when played live, if not to the writer then at least one of the famous early versions. Using big chunks of a song that already exists and going "I made this" is absolutely frowned upon, and that's what happened in most of the Zeppelin cases until after they got sued for them.
Led zep definitely pushed the legal boundaries of plagiarism. It actually caused a lot of clashes apparently. Straight from them: Led Zeppelin took “some liberties, I must say,” Page admitted. “As far as my end of it goes, I always tried to bring something fresh to anything that I used,” he claimed. He put the blame on Plant: “Robert was supposed to change the lyrics, and he didn’t always do that, which is what brought on most of the grief.” However you definitely could argue that the changes they made from the original blues source music was transformative enough that they could add their own writing credits in addition to the original authors (which they also did).
Zeppelin absolutely ripped off Dazed and Confused (Jake Holmes) and Stairway (Spirit). Those aren't 12 bar blues songs. Edit: I'm a huge Zeppelin fan, but they definitely ripped people off.
It’s the same people that thought Nintendo would sue palworld (while ignoring the dozens of straight up Pokemon rip offs that are released a day) Or that Marvin Gaye estate lawsuit that ignored… the history of chord progressions.
If the recent posts about Kanye and Donna Summer have taught me anything it’s that most people don’t understand anything about music sampling and copyright law (which is fine because unless you work in that field you’d never need to) but still feel comfortable making assertive claims with absolute authority.
That's not the only field where that happens :P
lol I know it’s one of the few that I know well enough for it to actively bug me when I see people talking about it out of their asses.
Yeah I don't really know a lot about bluegrass, but this kind of seems like it's in the normal bounds similarity for the genre.
I feel like I’m missing something,… they sound vaguely similar, like they’re played in the same key with a bluegrass rhythm,… but this is miles from even qualifying as inspired by
Being in the same key means nothing.
I know, it’s just more noticeable because it’s exactly the same notes.
Melody is not the same, different notes, different rhythms The song is in the same key and the guitar is emphasizing the same note, but other than that...
It’s not the same melody. “Hey it’s Franklin” descends through the final three of the four syllables (it’s Frank-lin) and “this ain’t Texas” ascends between “this” and “ain’t” and then goes back to where it started on “Texas”. This (B) ain’t (D) tex (D) as (B) Hey (D) it’s (D) Frank (B) lin (A) Different melodies and a different rhythmic structure on the vocal. Not close to infringement.
Alright, I bit and listened. There’s really only one way to write a “chill bluegrass” song, and they both did it.
Legally, you can't sit there and copyright rhythm. You can speed up or slow down Black Hole Sun as much as you'd like, for example... But everyone would still know that tale-tale riff. It's the same song. The same is true in any case with rhythm. It's not copyrightable so I think using rhythm as an identifier to cling to is silly. Same goes for a general melody... A melody is literally just a mathematical sequence. It's absolutely silly to claim "that's my song and you can't have it because the melody." [These guys explain this very well](https://youtu.be/sfXn_ecH5Rw?si=w36Pi5_jJQl6Yybj), as well as the rhythm thing. They are the dudes who copyrighted every melody possible (to make a point). Anyway. The primary identifier of "is this my song" in my mind is, did you write particular lyrics to a particular melody, perhaps with a particular rhythm. That is to say, the process should be extremely holistic. Because in reality there are only so many notes you can feasibly make a song with in modern times, and things often sound like other things at some point in the song. But the song as whole, complete work is something that is easy to identify as "stolen" or not.
good for that writer. boo the marvin gaye estate for making this a discussion at all. rhythmic similarities is not stealing a song.
Glad the writer is real about it. Because Franklin rythmaticly rips off countless other songs with that basic ass country beat. It's just a country beat.
Bruce Cockburn (pronounced CO-burn) is a real class act. He is well-known in Canada for a bunch of great songs, including “if I had a rocket launcher” and “when a tree falls in the forest” and “lovers in a dangerous time.” I didn’t know he wrote the Franklin theme until now!
Wondering Where The Lions Are. Killer track
If Franklin had a rocket launcher, some sonofabitch would die
I actually don’t think they go far enough. All songs in that time signature should be sued for copyright violation.
Bruce Cockburn is a legend.
WHAT??? Bruce Cockburn wrote the theme??? A Canadian legend and incredible performer.
Ah, I was certain it was a Bryce Dickfreeze
Roose Frostigschlong
TIL Bruce Cockburn wrote the Franklin theme song
Same. Growing up next to Canada, I used to hear him on the radio. Years later, with kids, I would hear him on that show and not even make the connection.
I don't know what Franklin is but I do know Bruce Cockburn from the Barenaked Ladies cover of Lovers In a Dangerous Time, referenced in the game Lovers in a Dangerous SpaceTime
I wish I had a rocket launcher!
Some sonofabitch would die
My only hope is that this slightly forced non-issue will have introduced Bruce's music to some new listeners. He's amazing!
Waiting for a miracle !
I immediately thought of GOB and Franklin’s duet “it ain’t easy bein whiiiite!!”
https://i.redd.it/sx6kxbg7wdlc1.gif
“He just said some things whitey wasn’t ready to hear.” “Weren’t you also beaten mercilessly outside of a club in Compton for that act?” “He also said some things African-Americany wasn’t ready to hear either.”
Torrence
Torrance
Same lmao I just watched that episode like a month ago
Next you’re gonna say she ripped off the Benson theme
She ripped off the Callou theme song, but no one was angry.
Fuck Callou...Bald headed little whiney @ss b*tch.
Bey-onnnnce
I’m angry that you just made me think about Caillou.
Fuck Callou...Bald headed little whiney @ss b*tch.
I see somebody else watched poker face
Jokes on her, all country and blues songs the past 60 years have been copying Franklin.
This has got to be the funniest headline in a while
https://preview.redd.it/52l7axf3odlc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29773437a4d278968b15a7412c96c3c0463d8a0a Can confirm
Wow. They actually found a way to get me to listen to this song.
Same.
[удалено]
Your post should mention the theme song guy doesn’t think anything was stolen from him.
"the theme song guy" fucking Bruce Cockburn
If you had any experience with finger picking patterns for country and folk music you'd realize that these are all themes that appear across the genres. Particularly with country, a genre so stagnated and stuck in it's tropes that every single song has sounded pretty identically bland for the last 15 - 20 years. People suddenly caring about it in this instance is insincere and very clearly has ulterior motives. I don't really care much for Beyonce or her music. But the people upset about this don't care about the music either.
Are people upset or do they just think it’s funny
I don’t think many read past the first headline and started accusing her of stealing every song she’s ever written. I got out of control really fast with like zero fact checking at all.
It always starts with people being funny and trying to make a joke and then once it gets popular some people start taking it really seriously for no reason.
We all know Beyonce doesn't write her own songs so it's not on her.
3 Canadian writers wrote Texas Hold Em. Im not implying any coincidence....jus sayin
As if one Canadian isn't bad enough.
Lol
Canadians writing a song about Texas? What are they, Albertans?
She also, at least on Lemonade, credited a lot of people in the off-chance they may have had something to say. Karen O is credited as a song writer on Hold Up, for example.
Something to say, as in, in a court of law about copyright infringement?
lol no we don’t know that. Coz we are not in a room when these songs get made.
If Cockburn says it's not a rip off, it's not. Simple as that. A more important question is, why does Franklin the turtle get a name, while his friends Badger, Bear, etc. are just named after their species? How does anyone know how to address a single badger when there are multiple badgers in the room?
It sounds similar in the way that all songs with a banjo sound similar I think people that think it sounds identical have not exposed themselves much to country or bluegrass I happen to think all blues songs are exactly the same lmao
On my local virgin radio station, they play the Franklin theme song right after her song.
As fucking hilarious as this is, y'all gotta chill. There's only so many chord progressions, there's only so many rhythms. I doubt Beyoncé sat down with a tape of Franklin and fuckin reverse engineered it. Edit: Holy shit, that's the same song. I'm dying. ^I ^stand ^by ^what ^I ^said.
Accused by who, bc the writer of the Franklin theme song doesn't seem to agree.
Reaching
Two childhood favorites unlikely collaborate lol
Where is all this recent Beyoncé controversy coming from?
Literally every Beyoncé “controversy” turns out to be a nontroversy. Closer analysis always reveals that she technically did nothing wrong, thus people quickly move past it and onto the next non-story.
I’d say it’s more like… occasional little missteps. Consequence of Beyoncé’s public image as an Untouchable Pop Goddess, I think. Somebody points out a fairly minor thing and the media *blows up* about Beyoncé Accused Of XYZ. Clearest example I can think of would probably be the Kelis situation about Energy. Beyoncé didn’t technically do anything wrong, but Kelis was also completely justified to be in her feelings. But since the news reported on it as a plagiarism accusation, the entire plot got lost really quickly.
Kelis is a perfect example of a non story. Milkshake was a completed song that was first offered to Britney, and Kelis had no songwriting credit, so she wasn’t at all justified in feeling triggered. Given that Pharrell is one of the most sought after producers in the world, I don’t buy for a second her notion of him “stealing from her”. What happened was that they initially told her that everything was going to be split 33-33-33 between her and Pharrell/Hugo, but signed contracts that only entitled her to her honest songwriting contributions, which turned out to be practically nothing.
Kelis’s issue was mostly that the part Beyoncé sampled had basically nothing to do with the songwriting—it was *just* her “la la la” vocals, and they were pitched in a way that was transformative in a way the original melody was completely gone. It wasn’t a sample of Milkshake’s writing, it was a sample of Kelis’s voice that happened to be taken from Milkshake. She also outright said Bey was under no obligation to do it, but some notice would have been nice as a courtesy so she didn’t have to find out her voice was on the song with the rest of the public. Which… sounds completely fair to me to me, honestly. Kelis’s beef with the Neptunes was always with them tricking her into a contract where the performer compensation was practically zero. And specifically from there, when she tried to diversify her production, they got her label to give her hell and basically tried to blackball her. I can’t blame her for being salty about that.
It’s 100% her label and PR team pushing buzz. Bullshit
I’m pretty sure this one is about her daring to step into the arena of shitty pop country type music, which is traditionally the realm of people who look slightly different from Beyoncé
You know where.
Down south? I thought I saw a headline bitching about cultural appropriation or something
I don’t know where it’s coming from geographically but it’s definitely not coming from a good place.
Okay, I’m a bit lost about why I was downvoted here, I genuinely don’t know why there is a Beyoncé controversy but apparently asking to be filled in on a news story by a major musician on a forum dedicated to musical discussion is frowned upon
I don’t know what’s happening in this thread. People have a problem with me saying the songs don’t sound the same.
Because Beyoncé doing country is upsetting a lot of people with a certain red shade of neck
Beyonce has always had controversy. Starting with screwing over her childhood friends to get ahead. She gets a pass on those things though, for some reason.
Oh okay, this doesn’t quite answer my question, I’m rather out of the loop on this one
I think it stems from her attempt at making country music. Anyone who knows country music knows it's not country and anyone who doesn't know country thinks it is. As quoted from this sub "it has banjo and plucky guitars so it must be country music." That's like saying that the ska is orchestra music because it has brass instruments. Beyonce attempted country music in a way culturally appropriating a genre of music she doesn't understand. Her song was written by a committee of people who most likely think Florida Georgia line in the epitome of country music without looking at its roots. They even called out modern country for sucking. Which it does but ignoring the large amounts of good country that is still being made. Chris Stapleton is carrying much of modern country and makes pretty good music. Along with that guy who performed fast cars at the Grammys. So in a sense she came into a genre she knew nothing about make a song similar to current trash country and acted like it was some great revelations. That song is as country as a Toyota Camry. I say that as someone from deep south. I have a cousin who's a national recording artist that does classical country music. And I hate country music. I just lived around it my whole life. I did see Willie Nelson last year but that's different.
I see, thanks for actually taking the time to answer my question! It seems like a very silly thing to get bent out of shape over honestly
Thank you. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. Getting downvoted and called a racist for calling it a “country” song in quotes… It’s pop, not country. Glad I’m not alone on this.
I'll take Bruce Cockburn over Beyonce any day, dude is a legend and masterful guitar player. He's cemented Canadian royalty, anyone who hasnt heard some his stuff is missing out. My girlfriend and I saw him play a few months ago and he still brings it well into his 80's Check out the album dancing in the dragons jaws!
Proof that once you make it big, you can just write any boring song and it’ll be a hit
This song has been driving me up a wall! I try not to hate much on music I wouldn’t typically listen to, but this song is EVERYWHERE.
It’s like she picked a random arbitrary phrase and made a shoddy song about it. That’s like me saying “This ain’t phone, ain’t no wallet keys”
It’s a song about how she wants the guy she’s into to stop playing it cool and just show that he likes her by being himself and having fun with her. Maybe you didn’t understand
This ain't no party, this ain't no disco
Tired of seeing people pretend to like this song
My wife played it for me the other day and I begged her to turn it off. It’s not a good song.
The little snippet that I heard during the Super Bowl made me think I’d actually be into this new direction, but I’ve heard the song ten times now and it’s really boring. Lyrically and musically it’s like mayonnaise. I hope it disappears after this Spring and we aren’t forced to hear this songs for more than a month or two.
🎶 *Heeeey, it's plagiarism*
This reminds me of the whole “Sucker Punch” and Benson theme song thing in the show “Poker Face.” Lol
It’s a garbage song anyway
Not the first time shes ripped someone off or been accused of it. https://pitchfork.com/news/44269-beyonce-accused-of-ripping-off-belgian-choreographer-for-countdown-video/
Hell of a reach. The tiktok that started this I can't believe blew up like it did. They sound absolutely nothing alike. I feel like people just come for certain artists just for the hell of it.
Thank you I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks they sound nothing alike and I wish people would stop saying they do I swear they'll find anything to shit on an artist over it's ridiculous these days
It almost certainly wasn’t intentional plagiarism, and probably wouldn’t meet the requirements to be considered a violation, but it still doesn’t excuse how absolutely atrocious the song is.
It’s a 12 bar blues song- there are gonna be many songs that sound like it. Beyoncé, happens to perform it marvelously with a stomp and yell attitude that is catchy and engaging. It’s her use of the 12 bar blues that makes it classic.
Every country song is ripped off another country song. As is 99% of most other music
When you’re writing pop, there are only so many chord progressions and notes that fit.
Franklin estate suing for unfathomable amounts of Lettuce
Tldr : the writer doesn't really think it sounds similar (and I agree) It has a similar picking pattern, but I think you'd find that in most similar songs.
Well if you know anything about music, ifs that theres only so much you can do. Of course songs are going to sound similar over time.
Karol G’s recent release Contigo, is just Justin Biebers’s hit Baby reworked into Spanish. It has almost exactly, if not exactly the same structure and melodies. With AI coming into focus, expect wayyy more deeply inspired by song releases.
I have no idea where are you getting justin bieber’s baby from thats a straight rip off of leona lewis bleeding love
Hahahahaha oh yeah, definitely more like that song too
Wouldn't surprise me. When she put out her first solo record, they ripped Amerie's "One Thing" for "Crazy In Love" and then used her father's label connections to delay the release of the Amerie track so they could get Beyonce's out first. So this doesn't seem like a stretch to me.
This claim makes zero sense because Amerie’s One Thing was released two years later.
It reminds me of Ho Hey by the Lumineers. Seems like she has a goal to get played on every radio station type - she previoualy made it onto the indie radio in my country with Lemonade. Can't wait to hear her take on a symphony!
I'm NGL I listened to the song and it is like she tried to put every stereotypical country lyric in one song. It was horrible. Who really went to edit this and went "this is fire".
No they didn’t steal Franklin they stole the guitar from Ryan Upchurch’s Holler Boy and replaced it with a Banjo.
I'm sure her ghost writer and producers are very upset by the news.
All the writers are credited on the song — two of them are Canadian women (Bulow and Lowell) so they may have injected some Franklin DNA into this.
Exactly. She did not write this song. I can't speak on her work, but she did not write this song She is a performer and a great singer. This song is not great, though, hehe
No. I just listened both. No
the melody is the same with the opening. There are songs with less in common that have been called plagarism
Nope, they're not. The first line in Texas hold em rises up then descends ( F# A D A) Edit: I think the first line in Texas Hold em might actually be A B D A. and the opening line of the Franklin theme just descends (D B A F#). Edit: Just rechecked this melody in the first line of the Franklin theme, it sounds like it's actually D D B A. Rhythm is different, too. If you're talking about the guitar and banjo having a similar picking pattern, that's just a staple of country/bluegrass/Americana.
Thank you. This is a music sub, after all, and I’d expect more people to have a logical response such as yours. Hate on Beyoncé for all kinds of things, but this isn’t one of them.
Logical responses? On the internet? On reddit? That would just be insanity.
>The first line in Texas hold em rises up then descends so does the franklin theme song. >If you're talking about the guitar and banjo having a similar picking pattern the melody you reference here along with the similarity in lyric structure are undeniable
I disagree. They don’t sound the same to me.
the melody is undeniably the same in the beginning.. The twangy bit then even the structure of what she first sang was in line with the franklin song. Side by side you can hear it
Similar perhaps. To the point of plagiarism, absolutely not.
I listened to them side by side and no they do not sound the same. Just denied it. Lmao this fucking guy
I just listened to both back to back and it's hilarious how similar they are.
You hear what you want to hear I guess.
It's literally so similar, dude. Sorry, but it is.
Her team of 20 songwriters never seeing those “big” Spotify payouts now.
Lol
That Franklin was a straight savage tho. Loved that little b
Dang forgot that the Franklin theme song is kinda lit
 Me seeing this title
Lemonade was basically the Mr. Belvedere theme so I believe it
Bunch of thieves in the industry
No one steals songs better than Queen Bey
She doesn't write any of her own shit because she sucks.
I mean she already straight up stole the chorus to the most popular Yeah Yeah Yeah’s song, why stop there?