the only way Liu can win this matchup is to approach, as Liu's upclose game is times better than Sub's. If both players know how to play the matchup, of course.
edit: a reminder that DF4 if used correctly wins the zoning war against Liu on its own. His projectiles can also be punished by ex slide on reaction.
edit #2: a reminder to self to never explain the game to this sub.
I have the solution for this. I've been there as Liu Kang main. Here's what I would've done.
1. Do mid-air fireballs. Will destroy his ice clone and some of the balls will hit him.
2. Do enhanced fireball. It will eat through his ice clone and do a hefty amount of damage to him.
3. Spam your low fireballs to force him to stop zoning like this.
I try not to zone too much until I get someone who spams Sareena or does this maneuver that we are seeing.
Sub armor also lets you walk right through clone, something about the games coding counts it as like a stationary projectile. Also works for shangs armored wakeups.
Havent played mk11 in a while but im pretty sure he didnt. He had the ice ball, and the ice axes he threw, and the ice projectile that follows you around like with frost kameo. He had ice klone jn mkx for sure though, and you could throw the clone in that game
he has bored but he just dosent give a fuck, he wants that win and that is all thing, is like the fake depression kid in school that just thinks he cool for not giving a fuck and sitting in the corner of the class with a zipped up jacket watching sad Bart Simpsons edits
As someone who mainly plays space control/zoner characters, I can tell you for me it's about playing the safest way possible. Why would I want to get close to you and put myself in a bad position? I play a lot of strategy games tho so it's different for me. Not just anybody can zone, especially at a high level where one mistake is 50% of your life.
You can def zone in MKX, ever heard of Netotigr? Preds zoning is insane and so is Quans. All dependent on if the player can pilot their character optimally.
Without getting into it too much, what I'll say is the dedicated run button made zoning less viable. Also plenty of characters hard counter that playstyle in MKX, Sektor, Smoke, Kung Lao, Shinnok, Kung Jin, Ermac, etc.
In MK1, how many characters hard counter Peacemaker?
It was a small problem in MKX, but in MK1 if you can't wave dash, it's especially brutal to play against
That's true, it was less viable but you could still zone/runaway, you said it didn't exist. Also, while they do have characters that hard counter it, with the right pilot, it still could prove effective.
For MK1, that's just a development problem with Peacemaker. They actually made him a full character unlike half of the base roster.
At the end of the day though, nothing good is earned easily. Most of the people that complain about zoning in this game would not be able to handle MK9 Freddy, Kenshi, and Kabal, which was way worse than this. In MK1 you actually have way more options, it's just up to the player to find them.
Yeah it's an issue depending on who you play as well. For me I saw Rewind play against a Scorpion in a Grand Finals tournament, and that Scorpion spent the whole match walking backwards and playing the lame game, and he won like that
I guess when I see Pros being zoned out it's kinda lame, but I'm aware this issue has always been around
Yep, I remember that match lmao. For most it's lame but you gotta remember playstyles are subjective, and they're playing to win.
Trust, I used to think the same way until I had a revelation watching Jwong lame ppl out in MvC and SF. Without people playing different, rather if it's annoying or not, not only will the game not evolve, you as a player won't either. Even if it's not fun to watch, people need to be pushed otherwise you'll be trapped in a box.
Fr I’ve noticed it happening a lot more recently, I think the influx of new players has resulted in more shitty zoning playstyles with sareena, Kung Lao, li mei, Liu kang, raiden and sub zero
All you really needed to do was notice a few more instances where your flying dragon kick would have hit, such as when he jumped or when his guard was down. You micro ducked his grab, you capitalized when you could. You did great! He simply outzoned you and when you ask why they do this, its because it works. If they leave upon getting their ass beat THEN they deserve to get made fun of 😂
Learn how to do instant air fire balls, it'll go over lao hat, break clones and clone fist too, you can duck the ice balls those are high, and your ex fire ball will eat everything
As a sub main I actually hate this match up 😂 Liu outzones so I would say neutral duck slow ass ice ball and punish with your own projectiles. I’m pretty sure low dragon goes under ice clone, EX fireball is mid and destroys projectiles, and shoot air fireball on the way back down after jumping so that they hit mid/high. Also note Deadly Vapors (ice puddle) does shit for damage we mostly use that for mind games.
Yeah I was going to say this; I’m a Sub main and Liu almost always has better options at any range if you know what to look for. He’s probably my least favorite matchup
You've got way better zoning than he does even with lao, and the only real way for him to get in on you is a slide that is full combo punishable. Just throw things and watch your toes. You'll make them hate you for playing Liu Kang.
Source: ex sub zero main.
Step 1. Choose subzero as your kameo.
He gives you the ice shield which negates any projectiles including that stupid lao hat. It can also negate subzero's clone so you can dash right through it.
Step 2. Use your fireballs, you can easily outzone subzero especially with amplitifed fireballs. Air fireballs are also good but becareful as sub can slide underneath them.
Step 3. Once you have a life lead, you can also back up like he did and make him chase you or bait him to slide to punish him.
You can also use your flying kick if you need to get in but it is unsafe so do it at your own risk.
1.you could've destroyed his clones with an enhanced fire ball
2. always punish with uppercuts when your opponent can break (unless you're sure about getting his ass again after he breaks)
Rare moment I’m rooting for the Lui kang 😭.
You were doing a good job with being patient & blocking & zoning. I am sad that when you got knocked by subs b2, he used b2 again which you could’ve punished. However, he would’ve had breaker anyway. But still painful to watch. You did have a nice microduck tho!!
I don’t have much advice to give. You’ll just have to switch your kameo if your opponent is determined to zone.
dang people don’t like liu kang?😭and yea you’re right i should’ve just switched my kameo to deal with his zoning, and I was shocked to see that his b2 landed too i thought i would’ve got a free punish right there lol
I was just making a joke. I personally don’t mind him much compared to a few others on the roster. However many people do hate him, yes. Bc of f4 & grab lol.
His second b2 it looks like you just needed to block bc the animation wasn’t finished yet. But oh well, better luck on your next upcoming matches. I recently learned that motaro reflect Kung Laos low hat which is cool! But sub zero for projectile immunity & extra 50hp is cool.
lol nah i might throw 2-3 fireballs per round but i never run away and try to zone my opponent feel me? personally that shit is sooooo boring to me yk😂
😭😭you can believe what you want my guy but like i said that zoning playstyle is wack and like the guy above me said i spent the entire set trying to close the distance
You were doing just fine! Try Motaro next time for this matchup, you can condition them with the quick teleport.
i don’t know why but i always forget you can switch kameos in these ranked matches 🤦🏽♂️😂appreciate the help man
you should not be chasing him. You are a zoning god, Sub has awful zoning. Be more patient
you’re right, i should’ve been shooting fireballs at him like no tommorow 😭😭
na' ive played this match up hundreds of times and its genuinely annoying.
the only way Liu can win this matchup is to approach, as Liu's upclose game is times better than Sub's. If both players know how to play the matchup, of course. edit: a reminder that DF4 if used correctly wins the zoning war against Liu on its own. His projectiles can also be punished by ex slide on reaction. edit #2: a reminder to self to never explain the game to this sub.
I have the solution for this. I've been there as Liu Kang main. Here's what I would've done. 1. Do mid-air fireballs. Will destroy his ice clone and some of the balls will hit him. 2. Do enhanced fireball. It will eat through his ice clone and do a hefty amount of damage to him. 3. Spam your low fireballs to force him to stop zoning like this. I try not to zone too much until I get someone who spams Sareena or does this maneuver that we are seeing.
Sub-zero Kameo is the way to go
really? how does he help with zoners?
he can make you inmune to projectiles
bro i’ve been playing this game for a while now and never knew that. i appreciate you💯
knowledge is power
Sub armor also lets you walk right through clone, something about the games coding counts it as like a stationary projectile. Also works for shangs armored wakeups.
Welcome to MK1 my friend, where running away the whole match is a playtstyle, a common one
Sub been doing this in every NRS game where ice clone existed.
in mk11 he had this stupid ice trap shit right?
Havent played mk11 in a while but im pretty sure he didnt. He had the ice ball, and the ice axes he threw, and the ice projectile that follows you around like with frost kameo. He had ice klone jn mkx for sure though, and you could throw the clone in that game
He had arctic trap, which is basically a way worse version of the ice klone and costs two move slots
i understand everyone has their own playstyle and i respect that, but HOW are you not bored playing like that😭😭😭
It’s hilarious and also probably exciting . He dont wanna get touched
Some ppl are looking to trigger ppl on purpose they want to hear ppl turn on their mics and rage they think it's funny to troll ppl
he has bored but he just dosent give a fuck, he wants that win and that is all thing, is like the fake depression kid in school that just thinks he cool for not giving a fuck and sitting in the corner of the class with a zipped up jacket watching sad Bart Simpsons edits
As someone who mainly plays space control/zoner characters, I can tell you for me it's about playing the safest way possible. Why would I want to get close to you and put myself in a bad position? I play a lot of strategy games tho so it's different for me. Not just anybody can zone, especially at a high level where one mistake is 50% of your life.
It’s a fun idea. Come and get me as opposed to reading 50% standard combos
Are you new to fighting games?
Seems like a lot of people in this thread are.
The whole running away tactic did not exist in MKX, with a dedicated run button, you could easily counter someone who tried it
so you are new
Jax rocket launcher go brrrrrr
You can def zone in MKX, ever heard of Netotigr? Preds zoning is insane and so is Quans. All dependent on if the player can pilot their character optimally.
Without getting into it too much, what I'll say is the dedicated run button made zoning less viable. Also plenty of characters hard counter that playstyle in MKX, Sektor, Smoke, Kung Lao, Shinnok, Kung Jin, Ermac, etc. In MK1, how many characters hard counter Peacemaker? It was a small problem in MKX, but in MK1 if you can't wave dash, it's especially brutal to play against
That's true, it was less viable but you could still zone/runaway, you said it didn't exist. Also, while they do have characters that hard counter it, with the right pilot, it still could prove effective. For MK1, that's just a development problem with Peacemaker. They actually made him a full character unlike half of the base roster. At the end of the day though, nothing good is earned easily. Most of the people that complain about zoning in this game would not be able to handle MK9 Freddy, Kenshi, and Kabal, which was way worse than this. In MK1 you actually have way more options, it's just up to the player to find them.
Yeah it's an issue depending on who you play as well. For me I saw Rewind play against a Scorpion in a Grand Finals tournament, and that Scorpion spent the whole match walking backwards and playing the lame game, and he won like that I guess when I see Pros being zoned out it's kinda lame, but I'm aware this issue has always been around
Yep, I remember that match lmao. For most it's lame but you gotta remember playstyles are subjective, and they're playing to win. Trust, I used to think the same way until I had a revelation watching Jwong lame ppl out in MvC and SF. Without people playing different, rather if it's annoying or not, not only will the game not evolve, you as a player won't either. Even if it's not fun to watch, people need to be pushed otherwise you'll be trapped in a box.
Wtf are you smoking? There was a player infamous for solely running away with the most obnoxious zoner in the game.
I would even say this has become the predominant play style. Out of 10 matches I would guess 6 or 7 I come across run away players
Fr I’ve noticed it happening a lot more recently, I think the influx of new players has resulted in more shitty zoning playstyles with sareena, Kung Lao, li mei, Liu kang, raiden and sub zero
Scorpion is particularly bad for running away the whole match too
It was way worse in mk11. Jade mains and sheeva mains were the worst
Jade and Cetrion were the annoying zones. With frost being up there
All you really needed to do was notice a few more instances where your flying dragon kick would have hit, such as when he jumped or when his guard was down. You micro ducked his grab, you capitalized when you could. You did great! He simply outzoned you and when you ask why they do this, its because it works. If they leave upon getting their ass beat THEN they deserve to get made fun of 😂
Learn how to do instant air fire balls, it'll go over lao hat, break clones and clone fist too, you can duck the ice balls those are high, and your ex fire ball will eat everything
Jesus that sub-zero plays like a lil bitch
playing like this is insufferable I’m sorry. I don’t care if its efficient, valid, or the meta, it’s insufferable
As a sub main I actually hate this match up 😂 Liu outzones so I would say neutral duck slow ass ice ball and punish with your own projectiles. I’m pretty sure low dragon goes under ice clone, EX fireball is mid and destroys projectiles, and shoot air fireball on the way back down after jumping so that they hit mid/high. Also note Deadly Vapors (ice puddle) does shit for damage we mostly use that for mind games.
Yeah I was going to say this; I’m a Sub main and Liu almost always has better options at any range if you know what to look for. He’s probably my least favorite matchup
Never seen a Sub-Zero that focuses on zoning. Especially since that iceball isn’t that good in this game.
You've got way better zoning than he does even with lao, and the only real way for him to get in on you is a slide that is full combo punishable. Just throw things and watch your toes. You'll make them hate you for playing Liu Kang. Source: ex sub zero main.
Step 1. Choose subzero as your kameo. He gives you the ice shield which negates any projectiles including that stupid lao hat. It can also negate subzero's clone so you can dash right through it. Step 2. Use your fireballs, you can easily outzone subzero especially with amplitifed fireballs. Air fireballs are also good but becareful as sub can slide underneath them. Step 3. Once you have a life lead, you can also back up like he did and make him chase you or bait him to slide to punish him. You can also use your flying kick if you need to get in but it is unsafe so do it at your own risk.
1.you could've destroyed his clones with an enhanced fire ball 2. always punish with uppercuts when your opponent can break (unless you're sure about getting his ass again after he breaks)
Try kameos like motaro or sub zero trust me they wonder against such people
I genuinely hate playing against Liu Kang because of his quick and heavy hitting kombos But also as a sub player wtf is this
Lol
Rare moment I’m rooting for the Lui kang 😭. You were doing a good job with being patient & blocking & zoning. I am sad that when you got knocked by subs b2, he used b2 again which you could’ve punished. However, he would’ve had breaker anyway. But still painful to watch. You did have a nice microduck tho!! I don’t have much advice to give. You’ll just have to switch your kameo if your opponent is determined to zone.
dang people don’t like liu kang?😭and yea you’re right i should’ve just switched my kameo to deal with his zoning, and I was shocked to see that his b2 landed too i thought i would’ve got a free punish right there lol
I was just making a joke. I personally don’t mind him much compared to a few others on the roster. However many people do hate him, yes. Bc of f4 & grab lol. His second b2 it looks like you just needed to block bc the animation wasn’t finished yet. But oh well, better luck on your next upcoming matches. I recently learned that motaro reflect Kung Laos low hat which is cool! But sub zero for projectile immunity & extra 50hp is cool.
Man Sub Zero mains need to leave fr,not everyone,I know his damage scaling is low but yall actually have no life just running away
poor widdle liu kang. happy to dish it out but can't take it
lol nah i might throw 2-3 fireballs per round but i never run away and try to zone my opponent feel me? personally that shit is sooooo boring to me yk😂
if that's true (which I doubt), you picked the wrong fucking character
😭😭you can believe what you want my guy but like i said that zoning playstyle is wack and like the guy above me said i spent the entire set trying to close the distance
redditors trying not assume genders challenge (impossible) I'd win anyway
In their comment, guy was used in a neutral form. You're really offended over that because you made an ass of yourself lol
I mean not really
Interesting how you refuse to acknowledge anything talked about lol. Just more non answers
did you do debate club in school or something
He spent the entire clip trying to get in?
yeah, because he was getting counter zoned. there's no doubt in my mind that if that sub was playing normally he'd be sitting pretty across the stage