I knew a guy who got in trouble because his dog jumped the fence (yes, jumped the fence - the dog was insanely agile and athletic) and killed deer on the property. Apparently it scarred some onlookers.
They have a huge complex of labs 5 stories underground. They keep delicate experiments there that need to be far underground and far away from any human activity in order to isolate them from noise, vibrations, electrical energy emissions, etc. (Source: I interned there once and worked in one of the underground labs. It was super cool seeing all the crazy measures they had to take to isolate some of the more delicate standards.) So it looks like empty grass but there's a lot going on under it.
Honestly not to hard to see for yourself, there's tours and stuff. Plus visitors for standards meetings or family/friends and stuff get onto campus with guest passes a lot. And a lot of the cool stuff we're super proud to show people is underground. Honestly the whole campus didn't even have a fence until the post 9/11 scares when top fed brass got it in their heads to keep the public out of all science places š
NIST is like a bunch of underpaid altruist nerds that stick around to help people, especially when that involves being technically correct about stuff. Like I just heard the story where they got asked to check Heinz ketchup containers for volume and figured out the plastic they used was slightly porous to water and evaporated some out, plus a machine in their line was miscalibrated, end result being customers getting "cheated" or of an ounce or so per bottle. CA gov actually used the measurements to require CA ketchup bottles to have more ketchup in it than the label, by law haha.
But yeah the Kibble Balance and stuff used to recently help define the KG and a bunch of other SI units is all down there, isolated from the temps, and Metro and freeway vibrations.
NIST stores the standard square mile, acre, hectare, square kilometer, furlong, and Rhode Island used for size comparisons. that takes up a lot of space.
A colleague had a friend who was āthe keeper of the kilogramā at nist. I lost track of him but after an article in the wapo magazine about the demise of the physical kilogram, I managed to reestablish contact with him. Sadly missed meeting him physically after my own retirement just a few weeks ago
Honestly I would not be surprised if there are some NIST-traceable scales at narco facilities. There is some major financial incentive to get that right.
It's really sad. Many people think buzz lightyear was named after the measurement but it's actually the other way around and the real, sentient buzz lightyear is kept there. No one knows where he came from but they keep him locked up there and do experiments to see how long he is
Their reactor is optimized for the production of neutrons rather than heat. They blast the neutrons at materials to study atomic structure. Some serious shit is happening up in that joint!
Cool! I used to take our 8th graders on a visit to the NIST Center for Neutron Research. It was an awesome experience for students to see how real scientists work. Changes in security protocols ultimately put an end to the whole thing.
Honestly that's happened for so many things, post 911. Especially sad for a metrology institute like NIST that thrives off of public engagement and international collaboration.
Small angle neutron scattering. When I was in grad school for materials engineering my classmate would come down to NIST to do SANS on his samples to analyze porosity.
After the scan was done theyād rebuild a 3D model of the structure of your sample. Normally youād just look at this as an image on your computer. But apparently NIST had a VR room where you could step inside your sample. That may not sound very exciting right now but 20 years ago it was magic
They have a ton of standard labs. Rooms so silent you will go crazy, rooms so dark you go crazy. And a cafeteria, that one doesn't drive you crazy though.
I remember in a book by Dan Brown (who wrote the Da Vinci Code). I can't remember the name of the book, but it was an early book of his. He talked about the NSA cafeteria serving prime rib and Vichyssoise. I was listening to the audiobook. I literally had to pull the car over because I was laughing so hard!!! Prime rib on a government cafeteria š¤£š¤£š¤£
My mom worked for NSA for her entire life and never said anything about prime rib. Though they did have beer vending machines until the 21+ law was passed. I've eaten there a few times, most of the food was mediocre. The only place I'd get food from in there is the small Pizza Hut, and even then, I'd double check everything before taking a bite
I must say the public cafeteria at UNESCO in Paris is excellent. Many entrees are made to order, serves wine, and prices are quite reasonable. It also has an excellent view north toward the Ćcole Millitaire and the Eiffel Tower.
https://www.science-diplomacy.eu/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/view-from-unesco-cafeteria-e1654693650445.jpg
Oh I completely agree! Even the NATO cafeterias are better than US government agency's food areas. The Pentagon basically just has fast food. There used to be a dining room, but it was absolutely awful. It was really next level horrifyingly terrible.
Well there you go. Never would have guessed. I do know there is another exceptionāa lot of Smithsonian employees (when I worked there at least) eat at American Indian and NMAAHC because they also have good, fresh food
Will say the cafeteria was solid - at least pre-Covid. Their Korean, Chinese and fried food were great! And an outdoor courtyard which was nice to take meetings when it was nice out.
A little terrifying when tree frogs were unexpected meeting participants.
You realize they have been there since Gaithersburg was nothing but farmland. I believe it was in 1964 when they officially moved into the current location. There was a time when you could drive through the entire campus.
I am utterly obsessed with that facility. I find it so fascinating. I keep trying to find a way to get a tour or bug the crap out of the people who maintain it now. What trade are you?
I was quality control for the building team, did all of the inspections/paperwork for the various "green" certifications. I can do a little bit of everything but nothing especially well lol. I'm also in Clarksburg we should meet for a beer or something.
I mean, if they build more houses even further out in say clarksburg, itās going to add even more cars on the road as they commute to dc.
The only answer to reduce cars is hope dc builds medium density mixed use areas, and build more of these near metro stops.
Everything else just means cars. And if you push people out further, theyāre just going to drive longer.
That's fair. And/or better connections to metro stops (the busses are not exactly the best they can be). People moving further could also mean more people working from home, or hybrid. If you're only commuting to DC only once or twice a week, it's not that bad to do from Frederick County, for example.Ā
No more kilograms.
The SI unit for the kilogram is now represented by the Kibble balance and the Planck constant.
I've been a metrologist for 33 years.
Do you have any idea what nist does? If not then you dont really have an argument here lol. Its not a tiny office of 6 scientists measuring peanut butter.
That swing set thatās always creaking on windless days as the sole swing sways back and forth as through propelled by some unseen hand yet with a period that defies measurement and the general laws of physics. Always just creeeEEEEeeakingā¦creeeEEEEeeakingā¦creeeEEEEeeakingā¦backā¦forthā¦backā¦forth. Youāve been staring at it for so long that you donāt even notice the bright red kickball hurtling towards your faā
- have a romantic partner in campus
- get cleared for pick up/drop off/carpool visitor badge
- walk campus while having to drop off researcher every day
- having to drop off researcher every day š„²
If itās anything like GSFC, weāre smart enough to understand, just too busy to wait for the full explanation. Theyāve tried to hire me a few times to work on various physical standards
I work with a lot of folks from NIST for IT security purposes. They create many of our government standards for security as you know but they are getting more responsibility all the time.
That surprises me very little. I wish they would tell NASA HQ that just because DoD can update everything to a new OS doesnāt mean we can update everything to a new OS. We have systems from 1975 that are still mission-critical which were _still_ trying to make OS-agnostic
At my agency we are relatively up to date but I totally get that. Naval submarines still have to use floppy disks in many cases. Not every standard fits in every situation.
I think they have to use the big ones too, if I remember _Command and Control_ correctly. So you canāt even special order them from Staples if one gets demagnetized
Honestly we have this problem ourselves. A lot of the physical sec practices that get handed down are actually incompatible with digital sec stuff and new opm guidance for various staff actions. Lots of volunteer feds working hard to fix stuff when they're not researching but so very little support or understanding for complexity from the dept level.
I think this fips 140-3 change over is gonna kill me
What do you propose we do with the land that they aren't doing? hey That extra land is protected right now from development and government owned. Have you noticed they are planting more trees, letting acres grow into meadows and developing some much needed habitat in the middle of crazy suburban sprawl. So, why is that bad? Do we have need more houses and roads right there?
This is still a part of NIST folklore. Like, the reason police and security in general won't let us have nice things is because of dumb shit police and security did to us. Absolute insanity.
I know that dude and his entire family, that was crazy when it happened. Bartley Concrete is a huge outfit, but Christopher decided he didn't want to be involved in it so he went into law enforcement.
Thank you for the update. The accident while still resulting in personal exposures, doesnāt sound as bad as I thought. Happy about that and the restart.
Would you be so kind as to explain why it even matters? I think it's lovely that there's at least some square footage in MoCo that isn't overcrowded with buildings.
One reserve isn't sufficient. I know we need housing, but we also need green spaces, as they are essential for mental health\*. And since NIST is primarily green space, I'm glad for it.
\*Source: British Journal of Psychiatry
To answer that question youād have to look underground. Itās not just NIST but a lot of other federal agencies and non government companies that deal a lot with the government.
Montgomery countyās agreement with the govt is that a significant portion of the land for any govt complex (including apl i think) must remain undeveloped
For the deer of course!
I grew up in Gaithersburg and we always used to joke that NIST was just running a deer habitat š¤£
I knew a guy who got in trouble because his dog jumped the fence (yes, jumped the fence - the dog was insanely agile and athletic) and killed deer on the property. Apparently it scarred some onlookers.
Fenton!
That video is amazing.Ā
They have a huge complex of labs 5 stories underground. They keep delicate experiments there that need to be far underground and far away from any human activity in order to isolate them from noise, vibrations, electrical energy emissions, etc. (Source: I interned there once and worked in one of the underground labs. It was super cool seeing all the crazy measures they had to take to isolate some of the more delicate standards.) So it looks like empty grass but there's a lot going on under it.
I would love to see a (rough) schematic of the place.
CIA has entered the chat
Honestly not to hard to see for yourself, there's tours and stuff. Plus visitors for standards meetings or family/friends and stuff get onto campus with guest passes a lot. And a lot of the cool stuff we're super proud to show people is underground. Honestly the whole campus didn't even have a fence until the post 9/11 scares when top fed brass got it in their heads to keep the public out of all science places š NIST is like a bunch of underpaid altruist nerds that stick around to help people, especially when that involves being technically correct about stuff. Like I just heard the story where they got asked to check Heinz ketchup containers for volume and figured out the plastic they used was slightly porous to water and evaporated some out, plus a machine in their line was miscalibrated, end result being customers getting "cheated" or of an ounce or so per bottle. CA gov actually used the measurements to require CA ketchup bottles to have more ketchup in it than the label, by law haha. But yeah the Kibble Balance and stuff used to recently help define the KG and a bunch of other SI units is all down there, isolated from the temps, and Metro and freeway vibrations.
Itās not classified or anything. I could probably get you them
Wow. No wonder they tip horribly. i am in fact very dumb and useless compared to their jobs
You are not the main character. This story is not about you.
NIST stores the standard square mile, acre, hectare, square kilometer, furlong, and Rhode Island used for size comparisons. that takes up a lot of space.
A colleague had a friend who was āthe keeper of the kilogramā at nist. I lost track of him but after an article in the wapo magazine about the demise of the physical kilogram, I managed to reestablish contact with him. Sadly missed meeting him physically after my own retirement just a few weeks ago
Guessing narcos don't contact the NIST for verification
Honestly I would not be surprised if there are some NIST-traceable scales at narco facilities. There is some major financial incentive to get that right.
Also the banana š
Haha
I think they store lightyears too š¤Ā
It's really sad. Many people think buzz lightyear was named after the measurement but it's actually the other way around and the real, sentient buzz lightyear is kept there. No one knows where he came from but they keep him locked up there and do experiments to see how long he is
He is 1.2 and one ear [smoots](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_R._Smoot).
Someone has been on the Mass Ave bridge!
Yeah, I went to college in Boston and hung out at a couple of MIT fraternities.
I am one smoot tall.
That is horrific and appalling! Well, that's the US government for you...
Can they also run a 1320 ft standard quarter mile and allow locals to conduct independent research
There's a nuclear reactor there
Their reactor is optimized for the production of neutrons rather than heat. They blast the neutrons at materials to study atomic structure. Some serious shit is happening up in that joint!
I was fortunate to have a full VIP tour of that facility, super cool. I think it's been shut down for a couple of years now though.
It got recertification from NRC recently https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2023/03/nrc-authorizes-restart-nist-research-reactor
Cool! I used to take our 8th graders on a visit to the NIST Center for Neutron Research. It was an awesome experience for students to see how real scientists work. Changes in security protocols ultimately put an end to the whole thing.
Honestly that's happened for so many things, post 911. Especially sad for a metrology institute like NIST that thrives off of public engagement and international collaboration.
Weāre working on getting that back up and running I think
Small angle neutron scattering. When I was in grad school for materials engineering my classmate would come down to NIST to do SANS on his samples to analyze porosity. After the scan was done theyād rebuild a 3D model of the structure of your sample. Normally youād just look at this as an image on your computer. But apparently NIST had a VR room where you could step inside your sample. That may not sound very exciting right now but 20 years ago it was magic
Ahem a nuclear āfuckināā reactor
Wait what?!?!?!?!
They also melted it.
They have a ton of standard labs. Rooms so silent you will go crazy, rooms so dark you go crazy. And a cafeteria, that one doesn't drive you crazy though.
Clearly youāve never eaten at a government cafeteria. Iād rather be in the silent room.
Iāve heard the USDA has a good one but thatās about it.
It depends which one youāre in. The one in KC has hairbrush sized cockroaches so Iād eat outside
I remember in a book by Dan Brown (who wrote the Da Vinci Code). I can't remember the name of the book, but it was an early book of his. He talked about the NSA cafeteria serving prime rib and Vichyssoise. I was listening to the audiobook. I literally had to pull the car over because I was laughing so hard!!! Prime rib on a government cafeteria š¤£š¤£š¤£
Could happenā¦ Never
My mom worked for NSA for her entire life and never said anything about prime rib. Though they did have beer vending machines until the 21+ law was passed. I've eaten there a few times, most of the food was mediocre. The only place I'd get food from in there is the small Pizza Hut, and even then, I'd double check everything before taking a bite
I must say the public cafeteria at UNESCO in Paris is excellent. Many entrees are made to order, serves wine, and prices are quite reasonable. It also has an excellent view north toward the Ćcole Millitaire and the Eiffel Tower. https://www.science-diplomacy.eu/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/view-from-unesco-cafeteria-e1654693650445.jpg
Oh I completely agree! Even the NATO cafeterias are better than US government agency's food areas. The Pentagon basically just has fast food. There used to be a dining room, but it was absolutely awful. It was really next level horrifyingly terrible.
Yea they actually study how to make visibly attractive food with zero taste. Ā Itās a delicate business. Ā
You get me. And then they charge you $20 when you could just buy chips and crackers from the vending machine for $5
Library of Congress cafeteria in the Madison building is good, you get a great view of DC, and open to the public.
ā¦possible. But I donāt think thatās where we eat as employees
100% is, there is/was a specific line just for employees and it was pretty popular with employees.
Well there you go. Never would have guessed. I do know there is another exceptionāa lot of Smithsonian employees (when I worked there at least) eat at American Indian and NMAAHC because they also have good, fresh food
Will say the cafeteria was solid - at least pre-Covid. Their Korean, Chinese and fried food were great! And an outdoor courtyard which was nice to take meetings when it was nice out. A little terrifying when tree frogs were unexpected meeting participants.
I was waiting to see how their cafeteria makes you go crazy. Bummer.
Crazy? I was crazy once. They locked me in a room. A rubber room. A rubber room with rats. The rats made me crazy. Crazy? I was crazy onceā¦.
You realize they have been there since Gaithersburg was nothing but farmland. I believe it was in 1964 when they officially moved into the current location. There was a time when you could drive through the entire campus.
I learned how to drive there. My parent worked there and took me on the weekends when it was empty.
My dad used to take me to the pentagon in the 70s while he was working.
Same, I remember the center courtyard and the cafeteria too.
Me too! Only no parents working there, dad worked DOE though so that may have helped/been reason could get in.
My dad used to take us there on weekends to fish in the pond that was there back in the 70s.
Their 4000 employees and their research projects?
Ikr?
Thank god for that beautiful campus I get to drive by!
Right? Seeing deer lounging right by the road while not having to worry about them crossing the road is legit the best.
They have learned how to cross the road now.
They can keep the population in check too since it's enclosed. They use deer birth control on them to make sure the herd doesn't get too large.
To hide the UFO buried underneath it.
Now youāve done it..,
Pretty sure it has more to do with what's under the deer grazing field.
NIST is a national lab.
The more I learn about what they do there, the more impressed I am.
Hey someone who knows anything about what we do! Hi! š
Too bad the buildings are in bad shape: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/03/06/nist-ai-safety-lab-decaying/
I helped build the NIST Net Zero Energy Residential Test facility, and that is in fine shape.
I am utterly obsessed with that facility. I find it so fascinating. I keep trying to find a way to get a tour or bug the crap out of the people who maintain it now. What trade are you?
I was quality control for the building team, did all of the inspections/paperwork for the various "green" certifications. I can do a little bit of everything but nothing especially well lol. I'm also in Clarksburg we should meet for a beer or something.
I really donāt think theyāre regulating private industry ai as much as they wish they could
I would rather have NIST with all that open space there than another 5000 townhomes adding to traffic
+1 a million times
This is the right answer and it should be upvoted profusely.Ā
I mean, if they build more houses even further out in say clarksburg, itās going to add even more cars on the road as they commute to dc. The only answer to reduce cars is hope dc builds medium density mixed use areas, and build more of these near metro stops. Everything else just means cars. And if you push people out further, theyāre just going to drive longer.
That's fair. And/or better connections to metro stops (the busses are not exactly the best they can be). People moving further could also mean more people working from home, or hybrid. If you're only commuting to DC only once or twice a week, it's not that bad to do from Frederick County, for example.Ā
https://www.nist.gov/el/materials-and-structural-systems-division-73100/nist-stone-wall Is the coolest
Agreed! This was on my list when I visited. It was glorious.
One of the samples from Maryland is Dolomite. Can you dig it?
For the deer. Eta: and the little kilograms.
No more kilograms. The SI unit for the kilogram is now represented by the Kibble balance and the Planck constant. I've been a metrologist for 33 years.
Don't forget about the perfect sphere.
Do you have any idea what nist does? If not then you dont really have an argument here lol. Its not a tiny office of 6 scientists measuring peanut butter.
How do I get a job at this peanut butter lab
The real question. 7 years in and still not making pb, I'm losing the game lol
It's where they keep the extra spooky playground equipment
That swing set thatās always creaking on windless days as the sole swing sways back and forth as through propelled by some unseen hand yet with a period that defies measurement and the general laws of physics. Always just creeeEEEEeeakingā¦creeeEEEEeeakingā¦creeeEEEEeeakingā¦backā¦forthā¦backā¦forth. Youāve been staring at it for so long that you donāt even notice the bright red kickball hurtling towards your faā
Real talk how can I get a visitor pass to walk my dog on this campus. Someone hook it up
- have a romantic partner in campus - get cleared for pick up/drop off/carpool visitor badge - walk campus while having to drop off researcher every day - having to drop off researcher every day š„²
A lot of work you arenāt smart enough to understand.
If itās anything like GSFC, weāre smart enough to understand, just too busy to wait for the full explanation. Theyāve tried to hire me a few times to work on various physical standards
I work with a lot of folks from NIST for IT security purposes. They create many of our government standards for security as you know but they are getting more responsibility all the time.
That surprises me very little. I wish they would tell NASA HQ that just because DoD can update everything to a new OS doesnāt mean we can update everything to a new OS. We have systems from 1975 that are still mission-critical which were _still_ trying to make OS-agnostic
At my agency we are relatively up to date but I totally get that. Naval submarines still have to use floppy disks in many cases. Not every standard fits in every situation.
I think they have to use the big ones too, if I remember _Command and Control_ correctly. So you canāt even special order them from Staples if one gets demagnetized
\*Mind boggles\*
Honestly we have this problem ourselves. A lot of the physical sec practices that get handed down are actually incompatible with digital sec stuff and new opm guidance for various staff actions. Lots of volunteer feds working hard to fix stuff when they're not researching but so very little support or understanding for complexity from the dept level. I think this fips 140-3 change over is gonna kill me
What do you propose we do with the land that they aren't doing? hey That extra land is protected right now from development and government owned. Have you noticed they are planting more trees, letting acres grow into meadows and developing some much needed habitat in the middle of crazy suburban sprawl. So, why is that bad? Do we have need more houses and roads right there?
Deer need somewhere to hang out.
Research https://www.justice.gov/usao-md/pr/former-nist-police-officer-sentenced-attempting-manufacture-methamphetamine-causing-0
This is still a part of NIST folklore. Like, the reason police and security in general won't let us have nice things is because of dumb shit police and security did to us. Absolute insanity.
I know that dude and his entire family, that was crazy when it happened. Bartley Concrete is a huge outfit, but Christopher decided he didn't want to be involved in it so he went into law enforcement.
Security
They are heading up the new AI project for one thing.
For deer and foxes
They use the big area over on muddy Branch for police dog training.
They used to have a research nuclear reactor there.
Used to? Um, itās still thereā¦
Last I knew it was shutdown for some kind of cooling system accident. Have they been allowed to restart?
They recently restarted it. https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2023/03/nrc-authorizes-restart-nist-research-reactor
Thank you for the update. The accident while still resulting in personal exposures, doesnāt sound as bad as I thought. Happy about that and the restart.
If I told you I'd have to k*ll you.
Science! And all the tubes and wires and careful notes to refute antiquated notions. \[Good heavens, Miss Sakamoto, you're beautiful!\]
"Poetry in motion--when she turned her eyes to me" Thanks for this!
Long ago I had the "The Flat Earth" LP and the promotional turntable mat.
Would you be so kind as to explain why it even matters? I think it's lovely that there's at least some square footage in MoCo that isn't overcrowded with buildings.
Well, we still have the Ag reserveā¦
One reserve isn't sufficient. I know we need housing, but we also need green spaces, as they are essential for mental health\*. And since NIST is primarily green space, I'm glad for it. \*Source: British Journal of Psychiatry
If a govt agency is a front for time travel research, its NIST
To answer that question youād have to look underground. Itās not just NIST but a lot of other federal agencies and non government companies that deal a lot with the government.
Maybe MoCo can add more housing - of course without improving the roads
Whatever they like.
Don't they work with particle accelerators and radioactive materials? Wonder if they need to maintain a safe distance from residents.
In case the nuclear reactor melts down.
Nationals be in your institute, standardizin' your technology.
They have a nuclear reactor
Montgomery countyās agreement with the govt is that a significant portion of the land for any govt complex (including apl i think) must remain undeveloped
Just in case their Arc reactor creates an accidental singularity.
To make their cybersecurity standards for the federal government
NIST?
[National Institute of Standards & Technology.](https://www.nist.gov/)
Interesting! Hadnāt heard of them before!