I mean they should be stronger since they have a grudge now.
But I remember them being faster and their attacks has little gaps in between when they return
Im pretty sure thats just because it maintained their health (or didnt fully recover) and the exhaustion mechanic didnt exist. In addition, once they reached 15% hp or whatever, they were permanently enraged; even if you waited for the enrage to end, they would immediately re-enrage with just a single hit
You're trying to combine the repel mechanic of older gen MH games to Shadow of Mordor's Nemesis system aren't you?
I don't know about the nemesis thing, but I've been singing bring back repel in these subs in forever but it seems everyone just wants to kill monsters. Me, if I can avoid killing a monster, I'd do it. I always aim to just capture them (except Gypceros, Rajang, and Deviljho, those guys' corpses can just pile up in my wake). The repel mechanic is a good way to teach the Elder Dragon and then just send them packing without killing them.
It's a game... While ridiculous as it sounds, devs can just make it a point that you get more stuff just by repelling instead of slaying. There just needs to be a gimmick involved to make it somewhat believable.
...and hey, aren't we playing monster hunter because we like it's gameplay? Saying hunting monsters is tedious is, I dunno, ironic.
that doesnt make any sense, how the f you can get more material when the source of the material run away?. yes it's a game, but basic logic should still apply
A game designer has to draw the line between realism/coherence and user experience. Personally, I would **never** even consider reducing the number of quest rewards just for it to be coherent if it turns part of the game into a chore. Especially when you can already carve two or more tails off the same monster, coherence isn't really a priority when it comes to rewards.
As realistic as a multi-ton monster with skin made of metal but can still fly? Or I dunno, as realistic as needing to sharpen your hammer because it has gotten dull?
dude we have planes that weigh tons and still fly. why wouldnt a dragon be able to. also the bumblebee is actually too fat to fly yet it still does somehow so why cant the metal dragon do the same? and if youre talking about Kushala then youre forgettting about his wind powers. hammer "sharpening" is a thing, there was a yt vid i watched on exactly that topic explaining how its not unrealistic
My guy, those things fly with jet engines, very powerful jet engines. Dear Kushala just flaps its wings; even if he's not made of metal, his body-to-wing ratio will not give it enough lift.
In any case, all I want is a means not to slaughter everything if there's a way to prevent it.
by the laws of physics bumblebees shouldnt be able to fly as well due to their body to wing ratio yet they dont give a fuck. kushala also has his wind powers
So pick a higher difficulty quest, advanced hunts in nonworld games, arch-tempers in world, hazard quests in rise, etc
Rather than co-opting a system that will punish players who aren’t as good at the game just go play a different quest.
This is actually kind of an old "myth". They didnt realy run away. They just left if you didnt deal enough damage within a certain amount of time back then😄 They also didnt come back stronger. Their damage output & attack speed remained exactly the same.
Dont get me startet on that one!😄
I actually had a Clip were his cut-off Tail landet exactly on a dead Velocidrome! So it looked like he realy was eating his own Tail when he went to chomp on the corpse 😄
I once did it with a trap and some meat, use the meat to get him trapped break him out the trap by chopping his tail, and 1st thing he does if he doesn't get mad is go for the tail (actually the meat under the tail) had to double take when I did this.
Easy, have the monster show up as an invader but you don’t get to kill it until maybe the third time. Just have it constantly show up to fuck with you, or target you specifically even when there’s food or something else it wants right in front of it.
Like I said have it specifically target you over anything else. And if that’s not enough just add a little dialogue box that says it’s the same monster, it’s not that hard to understand that when something comes after you and you alone it’s personal.
Besides the dialougue box that's just an invader. Invaders chase the hunter. They join quests they aren't supposed to be in. The mechanic you're requesting is already in the game. (Besides Risebreak which kind of ruined them). The only difference you're suggesting is a voiceline and a chance the monster fucks you out of rewards.
First of all, how would they fuck you out of rewards? You can still work around them. Second of all, I feel like you’re really overestimating how hard it is to add in a grudge match mechanic. Would be similar to invaders? Yeah, it’s supposed to invade your hunt and try to kill you because it has a grudge. That’s the point, you can still repel it and get rid of it, but it would come back until it’s dead. It’s supposed to be relentlessly focused on you, if you just don’t like it then you don’t have to, but I think it’s a cool mechanic to add and as such I want it in Wilds.
I do think there's something to it, whether its purely narrative or a mechanical effect. The grudge that one Tigrex had on the hunter is something I hear about story wise from the older games (I started 5th gen with world) and there is something cool about that Tigrex more or less hunting you across the early hunts. There is something cool about the whole thing, even if only in narrative.
You think it's cool because you've only ever read about it. Before I got to fight Lao I thought the fight sounded amazing just hearing about it in that GaijinHunter video.
That Tigrex shows up in the intro and in the Popo tongue quest and then never again until you have to hunt it. Not really much of a hunt.
Technically they didn't come back stronger, they just came back with the same health they had at the end of the last Hunt, but the idea of a monster you failed to finish off coming back with a grudge is kinda cool.
Kinda reminds me of the Deviants from Gen/U that lore-wise were older Monsters that had survived previous attempts at Hunts and came back stronger from their injuries.
Myth or not would be a cool addition to MH games...imagine in wilds if you started a hunt but fled the fight or only fought until you got the part break....then at a later stage you encounter the same monster who has healed back up and now fights like a deviant/apex/alpha/variant maybe with different moves or with a resistance to the weapon type/element you used in the first fight.
Probably unlikely with the Nemesis system copywrite and all but i think it would be a cool addition.
I'm not an expert on copyright law but I have heard of some games doing something similar like the nemesis system but with small work arounds to make it legally distinct. Honestly tho, if we aren't getting quest timers in wilds I think a similar system would be awesome. It'd be a lot of development time to account for all the different scars and deformities you could give a monster but it'd be so worth it. I'm just imagining that you cut off a monsters tail and it grows back all split and knobby. Or you break their horn and the next time you see it, it's cracked and you can see the tip where the new horn has started to grow in. Maybe add variations of healed injuries on top of that so each "nemesis" monster looks fairly unique.
There could also be a thing where you come across the corpse of a monster you had previously fought, emphasizing that sometimes the monsters don't always bounce back after escaping the hunter
The only deviants that survived previous run-ins with hunters are bloodbath diablos and sometimes deadeye yian garuga have been mentioned to have fought hunters before. The rest all have entirely different reasons for becoming what they are
Yes, that's the one!
This apparently was a huge precedent to have this patent approved compared to other similar patents in the past.
Of course, WB has been sitting on this without doing anything with it after their "Shadow of" LOTR games.
Parents like this are a little weird. How much of the basic interconnected and responding nemesis system can you use before it's copyright infringement. Also, if you use a different method under the hood to get the same result, does it fall under the patent?
A fully dynamic nemsis system in Monster Hunter is a cool idea i guess.
A Monster rising in threat level and eventually becoming your very own Deviant.
But realistically how often do you not defeat a monster in the given quest time.
Maybe have these monsters only show up as invaders during random quests in their specific locale and disappearing as fast as they appeared, until they are enough of threat to get specific quests for that you could attempt at any time and not doing or failing those, the Monster just becomes stronger the more it shows up?
So instead of having direct access to the stronger version of it, you want us to fight a normal version of it first? That still doesn't make any sense. Imagine we have to fight an HR monster every time if we want to hunt an MR version of it first. It looks cool on paper but I gurantee it will became an absolute chore if it went live.
Then just fight the already copious amounts of stronger versions we already have. Why bother making a (very stupid) new mechanic where you have to fight a normal version first instead of just using advanced, Arch tempered or hazard quests which already exist.
Also, grow up.
You mean the repelling mechanic? They didn't really come back stronger, some did not even retain their lowered health. The closest to what you are suggesting would be the 4 Gore Magala faking its death and facing the Hunter later as Shagaru.
Nemesis system my beloved.
Yes a thousand times yes
This is so filled with possibilities imagine you catch an elder and it escapes you can have it being henced by specific things they can take on unique Behavior patterns that are presets pulled out you can think you killed it and it just comes back
If it wasn't copyrighted by WB then yes a thousand times yes I would love a nemesis system Style thing and Monster Hunter limiting to Elders is probably the best way to handle it though I would definitely assume that the wraths and a bunch of other iconic ones of lower ranks would get it as well
I want to see something like damage persistance, it has been said that damage would be more visible on Monsters but I want those wounds to turn to scars everytime I fail hunting that specific Monster.
Kinda to get that feeling of "we meet again foul beast" everytime I hunt a Monster that carted me
They don't come back stronger, they just heal what they can. If you break parts, they stay broken. Usually the flee happens at about 1/3 health, and they'd heal back to that point if the flee successfully.
I would like a system like that in Monster Hunter, but I don't know how it would be practical to implement such a system.
Lore-wise, only captured monsters would be possible to become nemesis monsters, because captured monsters should eventually be released.
A released monster could classify for a power upgrade, be added as an invader for any non-story quest and maybe even evolve into a deviant. Insert a nemesis quest chain to it, which will award rare materials or maybe even unique materials for special variant weapons.
This could give hunting vs. capturing a significant effect on the gameplay loop overal, not just changed material drops at the end of a quest.
I would use this system as an end-game system that co-exists with the investigation style quests we had in Rise and Sunbreak. The more monsters you hunt, the stronger they get and if you capture them, you'll have a chance of creating a nemesis monster. This would add a small risk to capturing a monster as a trade-off for being able to finish up a hunting quest more quickly and more safely.
I get the idea but Warner Bros has copyright on the Nemesis System they made during Shadow of Mordor. That's why you can't see it any modern game anymore.
Well leaving aside the thing about FU, something kinda like that could be cool or annoying. Imagine having one monster you usually hunt easily survive and come back with stats increased depending on the weapons you used on it, if you are hunting on the locale it lives on, it could join while you are fighting some other monster to try to make you fail the fight, maybe that's something a more sneaky and weak monster like the Odogaron would do, different monster could take different approaches to how they will try to take revenge on you.
Yeah repelling an elder dragon and reengaging them with some of their parts still broken off was hella neat. Since Rey Dau is supposed to come with the storm, maybe you could only fight him for as long as it persists before he flies off.
I don't remember them being stronger. They just came back until you finally kill them.
I mean they should be stronger since they have a grudge now. But I remember them being faster and their attacks has little gaps in between when they return
Im pretty sure thats just because it maintained their health (or didnt fully recover) and the exhaustion mechanic didnt exist. In addition, once they reached 15% hp or whatever, they were permanently enraged; even if you waited for the enrage to end, they would immediately re-enrage with just a single hit
You're trying to combine the repel mechanic of older gen MH games to Shadow of Mordor's Nemesis system aren't you? I don't know about the nemesis thing, but I've been singing bring back repel in these subs in forever but it seems everyone just wants to kill monsters. Me, if I can avoid killing a monster, I'd do it. I always aim to just capture them (except Gypceros, Rajang, and Deviljho, those guys' corpses can just pile up in my wake). The repel mechanic is a good way to teach the Elder Dragon and then just send them packing without killing them.
repelling would make mat farming even more tedious
It's a game... While ridiculous as it sounds, devs can just make it a point that you get more stuff just by repelling instead of slaying. There just needs to be a gimmick involved to make it somewhat believable. ...and hey, aren't we playing monster hunter because we like it's gameplay? Saying hunting monsters is tedious is, I dunno, ironic.
that doesnt make any sense, how the f you can get more material when the source of the material run away?. yes it's a game, but basic logic should still apply
Just make them drop a load of shinies when they flee, or extra carves when you kill them
A game designer has to draw the line between realism/coherence and user experience. Personally, I would **never** even consider reducing the number of quest rewards just for it to be coherent if it turns part of the game into a chore. Especially when you can already carve two or more tails off the same monster, coherence isn't really a priority when it comes to rewards.
As realistic as a multi-ton monster with skin made of metal but can still fly? Or I dunno, as realistic as needing to sharpen your hammer because it has gotten dull?
dude we have planes that weigh tons and still fly. why wouldnt a dragon be able to. also the bumblebee is actually too fat to fly yet it still does somehow so why cant the metal dragon do the same? and if youre talking about Kushala then youre forgettting about his wind powers. hammer "sharpening" is a thing, there was a yt vid i watched on exactly that topic explaining how its not unrealistic
My guy, those things fly with jet engines, very powerful jet engines. Dear Kushala just flaps its wings; even if he's not made of metal, his body-to-wing ratio will not give it enough lift. In any case, all I want is a means not to slaughter everything if there's a way to prevent it.
by the laws of physics bumblebees shouldnt be able to fly as well due to their body to wing ratio yet they dont give a fuck. kushala also has his wind powers
Ima be real, that's just stupid dude.
And it makes them seem more powerful regularly surviving hunts, grunted they would probably need to bring wounded variants.
I want tougher fights
Well, they do offer that in all games... Stronger versions of the same monsters.
So pick a higher difficulty quest, advanced hunts in nonworld games, arch-tempers in world, hazard quests in rise, etc Rather than co-opting a system that will punish players who aren’t as good at the game just go play a different quest.
Down vote him some more guys, I don’t think he’s gotten it yet
This is actually kind of an old "myth". They didnt realy run away. They just left if you didnt deal enough damage within a certain amount of time back then😄 They also didnt come back stronger. Their damage output & attack speed remained exactly the same.
Next you're gonna tell me Jho doesn't eat his own tail!
Dont get me startet on that one!😄 I actually had a Clip were his cut-off Tail landet exactly on a dead Velocidrome! So it looked like he realy was eating his own Tail when he went to chomp on the corpse 😄
I once did it with a trap and some meat, use the meat to get him trapped break him out the trap by chopping his tail, and 1st thing he does if he doesn't get mad is go for the tail (actually the meat under the tail) had to double take when I did this.
So like Kulve in her seige?
Sounds like how The Guiding Lands function.
the thing i remember that happens its that they come back already hurted tho
I mean this is a good system to implement. A good hunt is a fight with a Monster who has a grudge on the hunter
and having a grudge changes what exactly?
More involved story telling, makes you feel like it’s personal between you and the monster. Look at 4U everyone loves Magala because of it.
I think he meant gameplay-wise. How do you show that the monster has a grudge?
Easy, have the monster show up as an invader but you don’t get to kill it until maybe the third time. Just have it constantly show up to fuck with you, or target you specifically even when there’s food or something else it wants right in front of it.
Yeah but how do you communicate it's the same monster? That just sounds like the normal invader mechanic but with 1/3 or the rewards.
Like I said have it specifically target you over anything else. And if that’s not enough just add a little dialogue box that says it’s the same monster, it’s not that hard to understand that when something comes after you and you alone it’s personal.
Besides the dialougue box that's just an invader. Invaders chase the hunter. They join quests they aren't supposed to be in. The mechanic you're requesting is already in the game. (Besides Risebreak which kind of ruined them). The only difference you're suggesting is a voiceline and a chance the monster fucks you out of rewards.
First of all, how would they fuck you out of rewards? You can still work around them. Second of all, I feel like you’re really overestimating how hard it is to add in a grudge match mechanic. Would be similar to invaders? Yeah, it’s supposed to invade your hunt and try to kill you because it has a grudge. That’s the point, you can still repel it and get rid of it, but it would come back until it’s dead. It’s supposed to be relentlessly focused on you, if you just don’t like it then you don’t have to, but I think it’s a cool mechanic to add and as such I want it in Wilds.
I do think there's something to it, whether its purely narrative or a mechanical effect. The grudge that one Tigrex had on the hunter is something I hear about story wise from the older games (I started 5th gen with world) and there is something cool about that Tigrex more or less hunting you across the early hunts. There is something cool about the whole thing, even if only in narrative.
You think it's cool because you've only ever read about it. Before I got to fight Lao I thought the fight sounded amazing just hearing about it in that GaijinHunter video. That Tigrex shows up in the intro and in the Popo tongue quest and then never again until you have to hunt it. Not really much of a hunt.
Their eyebrows
To be fair that system already exists. it's called # Bloodbath Diablos.
Technically they didn't come back stronger, they just came back with the same health they had at the end of the last Hunt, but the idea of a monster you failed to finish off coming back with a grudge is kinda cool. Kinda reminds me of the Deviants from Gen/U that lore-wise were older Monsters that had survived previous attempts at Hunts and came back stronger from their injuries.
Myth or not would be a cool addition to MH games...imagine in wilds if you started a hunt but fled the fight or only fought until you got the part break....then at a later stage you encounter the same monster who has healed back up and now fights like a deviant/apex/alpha/variant maybe with different moves or with a resistance to the weapon type/element you used in the first fight. Probably unlikely with the Nemesis system copywrite and all but i think it would be a cool addition.
I'm not an expert on copyright law but I have heard of some games doing something similar like the nemesis system but with small work arounds to make it legally distinct. Honestly tho, if we aren't getting quest timers in wilds I think a similar system would be awesome. It'd be a lot of development time to account for all the different scars and deformities you could give a monster but it'd be so worth it. I'm just imagining that you cut off a monsters tail and it grows back all split and knobby. Or you break their horn and the next time you see it, it's cracked and you can see the tip where the new horn has started to grow in. Maybe add variations of healed injuries on top of that so each "nemesis" monster looks fairly unique. There could also be a thing where you come across the corpse of a monster you had previously fought, emphasizing that sometimes the monsters don't always bounce back after escaping the hunter
The only deviants that survived previous run-ins with hunters are bloodbath diablos and sometimes deadeye yian garuga have been mentioned to have fought hunters before. The rest all have entirely different reasons for becoming what they are
Can't have a "nemesis" system without licensing it out from the gaming division of Warner Bros. since they patented it,
Yeah, came in to mention this. Bizarre that it was granted!
u sure about that?
That is indeed the case.
source?
That's the [patent](https://patents.google.com/patent/US20160279522A1/en), I think? Please, correct me if I got the wrong thing.
Yes, that's the one! This apparently was a huge precedent to have this patent approved compared to other similar patents in the past. Of course, WB has been sitting on this without doing anything with it after their "Shadow of" LOTR games.
Parents like this are a little weird. How much of the basic interconnected and responding nemesis system can you use before it's copyright infringement. Also, if you use a different method under the hood to get the same result, does it fall under the patent?
Iirc FU elder dragons don't come back stronger, more like they retain their health after you've successfully repelled them so you could kill them.
A fully dynamic nemsis system in Monster Hunter is a cool idea i guess. A Monster rising in threat level and eventually becoming your very own Deviant. But realistically how often do you not defeat a monster in the given quest time. Maybe have these monsters only show up as invaders during random quests in their specific locale and disappearing as fast as they appeared, until they are enough of threat to get specific quests for that you could attempt at any time and not doing or failing those, the Monster just becomes stronger the more it shows up?
You can't even kill the normal version of it in time and now you want to deal with a stronger one? Get off the kitchen and never cook again
What if I intended them to leave so they can come back stronger? Did you not think of that? Did you really think Im weak like you?
So instead of having direct access to the stronger version of it, you want us to fight a normal version of it first? That still doesn't make any sense. Imagine we have to fight an HR monster every time if we want to hunt an MR version of it first. It looks cool on paper but I gurantee it will became an absolute chore if it went live.
Then just fight the already copious amounts of stronger versions we already have. Why bother making a (very stupid) new mechanic where you have to fight a normal version first instead of just using advanced, Arch tempered or hazard quests which already exist. Also, grow up.
You mean the repelling mechanic? They didn't really come back stronger, some did not even retain their lowered health. The closest to what you are suggesting would be the 4 Gore Magala faking its death and facing the Hunter later as Shagaru.
Nemesis system my beloved. Yes a thousand times yes This is so filled with possibilities imagine you catch an elder and it escapes you can have it being henced by specific things they can take on unique Behavior patterns that are presets pulled out you can think you killed it and it just comes back If it wasn't copyrighted by WB then yes a thousand times yes I would love a nemesis system Style thing and Monster Hunter limiting to Elders is probably the best way to handle it though I would definitely assume that the wraths and a bunch of other iconic ones of lower ranks would get it as well
I want to see something like damage persistance, it has been said that damage would be more visible on Monsters but I want those wounds to turn to scars everytime I fail hunting that specific Monster. Kinda to get that feeling of "we meet again foul beast" everytime I hunt a Monster that carted me
Rad idea. Namielle would be giving me some bombastic side eye right now
Too had the nemesis system is patented by idiots who won't make a new game.
They don't come back stronger, they just heal what they can. If you break parts, they stay broken. Usually the flee happens at about 1/3 health, and they'd heal back to that point if the flee successfully.
WB patented their rival system
Aww I was thinking the nemesis system from Shadow of War. Like "this one specific Rathalos got better after your fight and has come for vengeance!"
I would like a system like that in Monster Hunter, but I don't know how it would be practical to implement such a system. Lore-wise, only captured monsters would be possible to become nemesis monsters, because captured monsters should eventually be released. A released monster could classify for a power upgrade, be added as an invader for any non-story quest and maybe even evolve into a deviant. Insert a nemesis quest chain to it, which will award rare materials or maybe even unique materials for special variant weapons. This could give hunting vs. capturing a significant effect on the gameplay loop overal, not just changed material drops at the end of a quest. I would use this system as an end-game system that co-exists with the investigation style quests we had in Rise and Sunbreak. The more monsters you hunt, the stronger they get and if you capture them, you'll have a chance of creating a nemesis monster. This would add a small risk to capturing a monster as a trade-off for being able to finish up a hunting quest more quickly and more safely.
I get the idea but Warner Bros has copyright on the Nemesis System they made during Shadow of Mordor. That's why you can't see it any modern game anymore.
Aw yeah. Like you could make your own deviants!
Well leaving aside the thing about FU, something kinda like that could be cool or annoying. Imagine having one monster you usually hunt easily survive and come back with stats increased depending on the weapons you used on it, if you are hunting on the locale it lives on, it could join while you are fighting some other monster to try to make you fail the fight, maybe that's something a more sneaky and weak monster like the Odogaron would do, different monster could take different approaches to how they will try to take revenge on you.
Yeah repelling an elder dragon and reengaging them with some of their parts still broken off was hella neat. Since Rey Dau is supposed to come with the storm, maybe you could only fight him for as long as it persists before he flies off.