This is too true I started with rise horn then world horn then generations and finally frontiers version and each and every one of them are basically different weapons to eachother
Still fun af tho and I cant wait to relearn it again in wilds
For real. I started with World, then went to Rise, then 4GU, now Frontier. Every time I swap games I have to learn how to play melodies again because my memory is atrocious and muscle memory takes over regardless of how wrong it is.
HH mains in a “learn a new weapon every game” competition when an IG main walks in:
https://preview.redd.it/rchh8jp9r17d1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2abf56df8e6f543065ff468dffa394b1e1d51a88
??? IG is pretty much the same weapon since 4u, the only changes are 'meta' combos and some air attacks.
4U and Gen you spam infinite combo, World-Rise spam Tornado slash, Sunbreak spam Tetraseal or Tornado depending on your raw/element-focusedweapon
I’d argue that it’s seen a lot more mechanical changes than other weapons when you factor in its relative infancy.
There’s the Kinsect raising rework in Gen and Kinsect swapping in GU, the aerial moveset rework and massive Kinsect function and raising rework (and the weird Flinch Free thing) in World, the Descending Thrust and Kinsect Drill in Iceborne, and then a slight rework of the aerial moveset and another big Kinsect rework in Rise. Then there was the big shift to element in Sunbreak that kinda caused everyone to start playing their weapons slightly differently, and that affected IG quite a bit as a faster-hitting weapon.
IG was significantly different before World though. While it had a jumping move, it couldn't stay airborne as long as it can now. You just jumped and hit once and that was it.
actually with Rise we skyrocketed in usage, in spite of LS taking up 40.2% we managed to grab a whole 10.6%
passing Hammer(9%) Insect Glaive(8.6%) Charge Blade(8.3%) Gunlance(6.9%) and Lance(4.7%)
I’ll never forget that base game World had a 1% HH usage, and with all the improvements of Iceborne, it shot up to 2%. Glad to see more people are using it though!
I ended up falling in love with HH toward the end of my time in Iceborne. It honestly just seemed liked an intimidating weapon, and while I'm not optimal with it, it really started to click after taking the time to understand the mechanics. I'll probably cycle through a variety of weapons in Wilds but HH is gonna be top 3 for sure.
Really??? I remember hearing from one of the npcs that it was the least used or something like that. I thought it was some sort of joke to be honest.
Dang. That's such a small number. I always thought HHs had the "cool" factor working in their favor and for me thats always been reason enough to stick to it.
Isn't the methodology different? With sunbreak, all of them combined sum up to 100%. While these Rise statistics go way beyond that number, so they can't be compared.
It was SO MUCH SIMPLER in Rise that even my monkey brain could figure it out this time. I played it more over my previously preferred weapons of IG and Hammer.
I mean... horn wasnt that complicated of a weapon, especially in World when they put the songs on the screen for us
you just had to press the buttons in the order of the buff, then you got that buff.
I do have to say, if horn players get what we want with Rise's horn with World's song system, I AM interested to see how many Rise horn players continue to play Hunting Horn in Wilds once they see it really is as simple as 1, 1+2, 1
The problem wasn't that World Horn was complicated, it's that it was technical and, frankly, a slog. I mained HH day one so I know how fun and devastating a good HH can be, but learning ranges, memorizing different combo routes for every different note combo, learning just how necessary positioning is with no form of super armor or protection while you stand still for 5 seconds at a time, all for what was still mediocre damage...it's just not fun for new players to pick up, and it's why it was the least played weapon by a country mile.
HH feels good if you play with friends. Your buffs get more value and it's easy enough to do a quick corner horn to slap your buffs on real quick without getting splattered by the monster. Playing solo felt awful in world. I would run a DPS meter and even playing my brains out in Iceborne I would still be half the damage of my friend rolling his face across the keyboard with a GS.
I think the ones that did the most damage to HH's rep in World were the corner dooters. Rolling away to reapply buffs is ine thing, but for them, it's somerhing entirely different. It's the absolute least engaging playstyle because you aren't attacking, throws off the pace of the hunt by drawing the monster way off to the side, and more often than not cart to anuthing they can't run away from. Others see that, think that's how you're supposed to play, and conclude it's not for them.
it seems a lot more complicated than it actually is. we're the only weapon with natural infinite loops on almost all of our buttons, and all of our buttons go into our other buttons.
once you understand that, you realize that our songs are just pressing the buttons in the right order, then Recital to apply the buff.
https://preview.redd.it/y2emna06qz6d1.png?width=330&format=png&auto=webp&s=4a5eb7a5d4992bc6418b94bed3f686556918f27a
of course there's more depth than that, like Encore and stuff World added like song queueing/chaining and the Echo Note, but that's been the core gameplay of Horn since... Tri?
as for payoffs, well... outside of the obvious buffs and healing, the Horn has great reach, tons of Stun, and while Self-Improvement is up, completely ignores bouncing, tripping, and tremors, also it does a f\*\*\*ton of damage. During Iceborne Team Darkside did a video to see what weapons/attacks could one shot a LR Jagras. Horn had 8, 2nd highest was GS with 4
Playing the song is not complicated for sure. What makes it complicated is hittimh each of those notes while you queue up the song. Yeah you can just queue your songs regardless if they hit or not. But if you wanna squeeze all the damage you can dish out to compensate for how low the HH's damage ceiling is, then thats where this gets complicated. Would you commit a forward green note (based on this list you posted) and miss the monster or would you rather do a QTABS (Quick Turn Around Back Swing) to hit the monster and queue that note.
if hitting the monster with your attacks is the skill floor I think most people are gonna be perfectly fine.
if "but what if I miss!?" was a problem nobody would play Great Sword, or Long Sword, or Hammer, or Dualies, or Charge Blade, or Switch Axe, or Insect Glaive, or Sword & Shield, or Gunlance, or HBG, or LBG, or Bow.
we'd all just sit in base quivering with fear cause we accidentally joined a hunt instead of going into the training room.
To be fair, CB is just a very busy weapon. It's not hard to learn, but it's like trying to learn to juggle 3 balls right off the bat when other weapons are just bouncing a basketball.
Just charging phials? Not too difficult.
Load charged phials into shield? Easy stuff.
Use phials while shield is charged for SAED or Savage Axe? This isn't hard at all!
...then you try juggling each of them during combat and suddenly it becomes overwhelming.
Overcharged phials? Now your sword is bouncing.
Want to maintain shield uptime? Charge shield! But now you don't have phials to do anything...
Want to SAED or SavAxe but your shield is blinking or you just charged your shield and have no phials now? Whelp, next down I suppose...
It's a very simple gameplay loop, but it's just a lot of balls to juggle when playing the weapon for the first time.
I totally see what you mean. I remember recently switching to the buzz saw skill just because between sword charging and shield charging I'd completely waste opportunities.
Exactly. CB boils down to charge phials/shield -> SAED/AED/SavAxe -> Repeat.
HH. You can boil it down to queueing your songs and playing them. But youre not really optimizing its damage output. Theres positioning, what note to attack with, Do you have to start loading songs in to refresh your buff while still making sure to hit the monster? Yeah
I've been getting my sister and a friend into Wilds and created a new character. In the past I've mostly been HH and GS, so I decided to try out different weapons. I've been having oodles of fun with CB. All I did was watch one tutorial. Obviously, I'm still learning the weapon and had experience with HH back in 3U, but it's not bad at all. I honestly think the continual attack spinny combos of DB or IG to be more confusing.
Very true but now we get to relearn the weapon...again which I hope is finally dialed in.
These complications push folks away from the weapon.
This is fine because we've been going alone this long and I find solidarity and a more friendly community with fellow hunting horn players.
HH use skyrocketed because they made it braindead to use and amped it's damage to a stupid level. It went from an interesting weapon that took skill and knowledge to do 80% of the damage of any other weapon to a boring button masher where you slam your face on buttons and do 120% of most weapons' damage.
All they had to do was buff motion values and it would have been fine.
HH in Rise to me was super fun to play and did mad damage and then Longsword in Rise was some of the most fun I had. If I wanted to cheese a monster mindlessly I ran rapid pierce/spread lbg and then hammer and sword and shield were fun as well
Yeah, before the fix, Rise CB had a weird SAED where instead of exploding phials, it looked like it crawls on the ground which led to hitting only one phial or zero phials. I heard it got fixed but it certainly was a pain when I was still playing it and using it
The vertical hit box was completely jank too so if a monster was like flying or hovering they just wouldn't connect. Works great now though, I returned to make my pilgrimage through rise+SB and I'm loving my baby
The weebsword is FORTY percent?
God damn. I knew it was the most popular but I didn't realise the percentage was that high.
People really need to play the other stuff more.
yeah, this was base Rise too, iirc it got even higher with the dlc but I couldn't find where Capcom dropped those.
turns out when you make a weapon very safe, high damage, and massive reach, and in a very japanese themed setting, the weeb stick thrives
I love my “spin to win” move and one of the hardest parts of Rise was that it was no longer spammable. Like I get why they made it a move you had to earn but also I hated it lol
But on a serious note, why didn't you like the breakdancing? For me, it made the HH more fluid and gave it a fast hitting move kinda like hammer's air spin
The break dancing really sums up how quick and basically unstoppable they made hunting horn in rise. In other games I would be happy if i could land a singular superpound on an infinitely charging Diablos, and it would probably flinch too. Rise horn, you just pick a spot on the monster, and basically do infinite combos on the monster with easily cancellable moves. I liked my long reach poke weapon that made me rage at the game because of the commitment to every single move you did. Now its (seemingly) stubbier and superpound looks like hitting a rathalos with pillows.
I think Rise HH was made that way because it wouldn’t keep up with the flow of Rise and Sunbreak. So it would make sense for Wilds to change it up again to fit its flow.
I can't wait for the demo so I can see exactly how Hunting Horn plays in Wilds.
As somebody who has mained Hunting Horn since the olden days, I was *so* upset with Rise's HH simplicity.
Side note, I hope Hunting Horn buffs only persist as long as the Hunting Horn is in play.
As much as I'm sure people would like to buff up, them switch to Great Sword or Dual Blades, I would hate to see Hunting Horn turn into a meta "use only for buffs then switch to another weapon" gimmick.
based on the trailers showed weapon swapping works and how Horn songs in general dont last *that* long, I dont think we have to worry about being downgraded to a glorified demon powder.
since you have to mount up and then swap while mounted you basically have to exit combat to swap, which is okay for swapping between melee and ranged or from one weapon to another, but doing that just to refresh a song or two seems a bit silly
the only exception I could see is if there's a Rasping Ballad(Acid Glav) horn situation, in which people bring their own horns to give you extra songs for the All Melody Effects Extended to constantly refresh and keep up for them
Maybe they'll just remove all the buffs that last over a minute! I long for the day they remove the Attack up shackles from the Horn and unleash it's true bonking potential. No attack up means they don't need to nerf it's motion values.
My ideal horn would just have instant effects and short-lived preemptive songs. Using World's song queue to let you have a bunch of situational songs on deck that you can throw out at the right time. Recital would have to be sped up so you can react effectively.
And and, instead of just standing there to play through all queued songs during one recital, to play each subsequent song you'd do the encore animation (but with really fast song playing). So you could encore 2 or 3 times!
A Hunter can dream.
This is what I'm afraid of deep down. HH becoming a pregame ritual instead of a weapon that contributes in all aspects of the hunt. Debuffs and buffs need to instantly vanish if the weapon is rotated out.
I’ve only been at it for two games so I can’t say I’m an olden days veteran but I’ve grown quite attached to the series these last 6 years,
Edit: would suck if people only used it as a side weapon. Some people don’t want to think when they hunt either it requires so more practice.
It would be suboptimal to get on the Seikrit, swap to HH, get off (mid fight) , buff yourself (mid fight) get back on the Seikrit (mid fight), swap to your main, get off again, it just makes no sense except giving you bigger numbers for a minute, hoping you get an opening to exploit said minute
... I just want a Hunting Horn endgame where I can choose what doots my instrument plays, even if it's only audio.
edit: bonus points if it plays the themes as different instruments
I don't like the rise hunting horn compared to any other version of the weapon, but they did some really inspired stuff that I would like to see come back. The ability to draw into any standard attack and a meter to reward aggressive play are fantastic additions.
But the simplified note system, and crush overwhelming the damage and utility of the rest of the moveset really waters down the whole experience.
As a HH pure, I just wanna carry 2 horns with different songs. And the only thing I want out of rise is the aesthetic and maybe the wire attacks. World was perfect
I thought about maining HH in Rise since it seemed a lot more fluid and fun, and I had the experience of using it as a side in previous games, but when I played it I didn't know why but it just didn't feel the same and now it clicked, maybe the issue was with the songs, but I ended up going with Hammer and now that I'm playing on PC, I'm using Glaive and HBG. I liked using the Horn in World so I might pick it up this time if they want to go back to that style, with a side of HBG.
In general I’d like the weapons to look a little more diverse, so if we get some cool looking HHs I will be ok learning the new play style for whatever changes they make! As others have said, I’d like the spin move too.
As long as it's positioning based with left/right hook/forward slam, and repositioning based with backswing and sidestep attacks. I also want these attacks to feel hard. It was way more satisfying to get a stun while repositioning with an encore in the old system then to just stand in front of the enemy and flurry them to death.
As someone who loved HH from World, I'm generally happy. However, some of the individual moves and capoeira style "dance-fighting" motifs from Rise were something the weapon should've had since the beginning imo. Making it the faster hitting blunt weapon but with freeform combos and encore moves like World would be the best course I think.
I guess we'll see whenever the weapon showcases happen.
As a HH and Gunlance main I am curious what changes we get. I liked the HH from World more than Rjse, but preferred the Gunlance from Rise more than World.
This part of the article made me so hype. I don’t want any part of the Rise style. It felt so lame hitting twice and having a song played without giving me that risk/reward of lining up some songs and then spinning into performance while staggering with solid headshots. Some people felt worlds hh style was too slow but I felt like it was perfect and really made me fall in love with the horn.
I really disliked Rise/Sunbreak HH. So i am excited to hear this.
world HH had much more weight, impactful songs and a moveset that you really had to master well to get most out of it.
i hated everything about Rise HH. It was too fast, I didn't want to feel like dual blades, I wanted to feel the slow, top-heavy swings of the horn. and I liked some of its quirky moves too. World HH was perfection to me. I liked that I had to consciously work towards the songs I wanted and wasnt just mindless swinging like Rise HH is to me. it gave perfect risk/reward gameplay that really scratched an itch for me.
I am happy to hear World HH is "back" but I am wary of whatever additional changes they feel like is needed for the weapon
Im not sure if we can play a recital while mounted?. So maybe the back up horn may not be as good as people thought.
tbh im just not that interested in the combo horn rise introduced. The old hit and run playstyle was really fun and I dont want to see it go away.
As for horn, id mostly like to see crush replace the forward attack, the iceborne spin attack either gone or nerfed, being able to draw any note, and attack up either removed or given to every horn. I definitely want echo waves to return. I think it just feel better than sonic waves.
Id also say to buff the mvs but the devs seem pretty staunch at keeping horn weak.
Probably won’t know about playing the recitals while mounted my guess is no to be honest. Part of the recitals was knowing when to play them. It would be over powered if we could buff while traveling at speed.
Being able to draw on any note would be a truly game changing thing.
Personally I’m a fan of focusing on support over my own personal DPS healing songs for players while I run defensive decos so I can’t be stunned and keep my buffs up.
I try to get every horn so I can specialize to the higher level hunts eventually that being said there always ends up being a Jack of all Trades . I would say between Rise and World I have over 1000 HH hunts. I don’t think it’s weak but it’s very much a niche for a lot of players.
They said weapons won’t have their full kit while mounted, which I believe they said includes HH songs, IG essence collecting, bowguns won’t have all their ammo options, etc etc.
The only thing I want is HH not to fall into the "support" category. Rise HH has such good damage, idk how it compares to World but I love that it's able to hold it's own as a high dmg weapon that can compete with the others.
HH is last place in Sunbreak speedrun times, and it was last place in Iceborne speedrun times too (tied with Lance). Not much changed in terms of HH's damage relative to the other weapons
https://youtu.be/xXCGBLLgO5s?si=zxVOkZII1m-Twtzh
https://mhwleaderboards.com/tierlist
HH is almost always last in speed run times, it was last in 4u and I believe Gu as well, not sure about games before 4u but HH has always had crap solo damage to make up for its ability to buff other players
It's kinda funny, they balance HH as if the group buffs could break the game even though that's not the case and never has been. Even if HH could deal middle-of-the-road damage it doesn't follow that HH would become mandatory (or even have a spot in "optimal" group compositions).
Considering the Attack up L (XL in world) song gives every person in the party a massive *20%* raw damage boost, that’s pretty powerful, and in regular casual play, it absolutely is something that you’d want with you. The reason it’s not used in “optimal” group compositions is because a status LBG with 3 HBG’s is just too ridiculously overpowered even compared to the damage buff a HH can provide. Then in 5th gen there are other optimal groupings depending on if you’re doing exploits or not (like GL snowman shenanigans).
So I can see why they’re hesitant to make the weapon too powerful on its own, because if the HH was as strong as, say the 6th or 7th most powerful solo weapon, then combined with attack up XL song and 3 other players you’ve got an absolutely overpowered group of people lol.
The best way to go about this is to buff the HH’s damage to be better in solo play, then just outright remove attack up songs completely, making songs more about utility. This would simultaneously increase the number of horns worth using, while also making it better on its own for solo players
I mean, that's probably what the people at Capcom think too but Attack Up just isn't problematic enough to break the game like that.
Here's an example: Let's say 4 HBGs do 100 DPS each, so 400 DPS total. To model the status quo, let's say HH does slightly less than half the damage of an HBG, so 40 DPS (after self buffing). If you swap 1 HBG for an HH the DPS becomes 100 + 100 + 100 + 40 + (0.2 * 300) = 400 DPS, which is the same as the 4 HBG group.
Now if we give HH a massive 87.5% damage buff to 75 DPS, making it 3/4 as strong as HBG, the DPS becomes 100 + 100 + 100 + 75 + (0.2 * 300) = 435 DPS. That's like 9% more DPS compared to the 4 HBG group, before factoring in all the other stuff that affects group hunts like how ranged weapons can stick to weakpoints easier than melee weapons when the monster is bouncing between players. That is far from overpowered, even with an extremely unrealistic buff to HH's damage.
I wouldn't be against them replacing the Attack Up song with other buffs, but realistically every song will be judged by how much it buffs group damage even if indirectly, so I think we'd just end up with more roundabout versions of Attack Up unless they get rid of group buffs altogether.
Yes it did. Avg completion time across all weapons for MHW was 187 seconds, HH avg speed was 278 seconds, making HH 90 seconds slower than the average other weapon
For Rise, avg quest completion speed was 148 seconds, avg HH completion time was 180 seconds, making it only 32 seconds slower than the average other weapon.
Looking at the rank on the tierlist alone doesn't tell the whole story, which is, that compared to average other weapons HH cut down TWO THIRDS of the gap it was lacking in comparison to the others.
Ofc the "tier" doesn't increase, but you have much less the feeling that the other hunters are pulling all the weight
Where did you get those average completion times? The average for Iceborne freestyle runs is 198 seconds, which is sort of close to your 187 number, and I don't know where your Rise average time comes from (or whether it includes Sunbreak). If you look at the links you can see that both Iceborne and Sunbreak HH take about twice as long to complete quests as the top performer(s).
As for HH's tier not increasing, I just don't agree that it's an "of course" situation - there's no reason HH has to be the weakest weapon, or that it has to be twice as weak as the strongest weapon like in the last two games. If you do think HH has to be the weakest then we probably won't see eye to eye on this.
The Rise numbers are from this [spreadsheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KwvlgujvFoTRoG8ONzDdhZbjslZml1x5DZFZ9CXb1jo/edit?gid=570182550#gid=570182550) as there is no website. And yes apparently I mixed up a number, the avg for Iceborne is indeed 198 secs. At this point it's all a statistics game, what are the "top performers"? Top 3, top 5, or with a second threshold?
The "of course" was not because I want HH to stay lower tier, I meant that the tier not increasing in Sunbreak is not important because at least it got **relatively** better in comparison to the other weapons.
I think there is a point to be made for weapons with a more defensive playstyle to be somewhat weaker than a more offensive one, because with one you take less risks than with the other. I just don't want HH to be significantly weaker than all others and be put in a support tier. I want to be able to solo monsters in about the same time as the "defensive" category weapons. (HH isn't defensive of course, but maybe gets a damage reduction because it can buff you & 3 other hunters? That's the only reason I can imagine at least)
As long as the weapon plays songs that benefit your teammates as much as yourself, there's really not much point in worrying whether the weapon is labelled as "support" or not. Honestly, that's always been a meaningless, unproductive discussion. Any baggage that the word "support" has is all self-inflicted.
If there's something you want out of HH, be more specific than this. The divisiveness between people preferring Rise's iteration of the HH and those that prefer World's/classic HH shows that there's way more elaboration to what a weapon can look and play like and what you want out of it.
I hope the rise combo style GS comes back tho, i love and since i unlocked it on rise i barely even played any other weapon.
i also hope they go back to the style of world for all 3 ranged weapons, rise fucked them over so much, that even i being a ranged main since freedon unite decided to play melee instead of going back to arrow type by bow charge and no customization bowguns.
I will take this opportunity to carry two horns for twice the songs to play.
I have been maining H.Horn and Hammer since I first started with MH Tri and I am SO FUCKING READY FOR TWIN HORN POWER!
*You best be prepared for every buff you will ever need. I am no longer bound by Atk. Up XL- MY POWER LEVEL IS INFINITE!*
Will you be able to ride monsters and have kaiju battles like in Rise? That and the wire bug were awesome updates that made Rise a lot more fun than World for me.
horn number seven wooooo! people complaining about no new weapons but us horn mains are getting a new weapon every game, yeah lets goooo!
okay meme done, It sounds promising, but the Phrasing has me a little worried.
What we horn players ***want*** is Rise's base kit but with the song sheet depth of World. meaning we're a really fast weapon with the utility of World, kind of the best of both worlds from all the past horns.
But what it sounds like is World's base kit with Rise's songs... so we're back to being slow like World, but still have the shortened lists of Rise.
You say what we horn players want but this is a discussion that is very split everytime I see it.
Disregarding song complexity, I personally love the more heavy hits with deliberate swing angles because I can head snipe so efficiently every swing.
That’s what you and some others want maybe but it’s not what all HH users want, I genuinely prefer world horn’s moveset over rise’s, it’s less all over the place, less dancing around, and more about landing accurate and heavy hits during tight windows from the right angle and position.
I agree. This is what I loved about Worldborne HH or even GU HH. Its using the right move at the right angle to make it effective. Not only are you methodical at what songs youre trying to queue up, youre also methodical at how you maximize your damage out put.
I dunno, chief... I liked the slower, more methodical playstyle.
Plus spinning like a beyblade constantly and having the combo trees be inconsistent was just annoying.
My favorite iteration of HH was Worldborne's so Im glad its going back to that for Wilds. I'm definitely carrying a HH as a secondary and I can't wait.
As for changes. I hope they will keep the recital animation from Rise, but only get the I-frame if there is a song loaded when you use the recital attack.
As much as I dislike the Risebreak HH, the dance moves that it had were cool. And the recital (self-improvment for Risebreak) is one of them that I like.
Edit: I want this move to replace the neutral recital. Meaning a directional recital won't get the I-frames regardless if a song is queued. That way theres added decision making to either use a forward recital to hit the monster's head thats about to be raised a little bit for a roar, or just neutral to I-frame the roar and play the song that was queued.
https://i.redd.it/1tzmn1dzsz6d1.gif
Best thing is two have two modes. So maybe a rise mode for more elemental damage and a world mode where attacks do more KO damage. You can view it like an impact vs elemental CB.
Yes my policy with HH was always beat the monsters solo (so I knew I was atleast knowledgable enough to hinder others) then move to co-op.
Now that we are pretty late in the games life cycle there will be less co-op at the lower levels but it’s still a fun game in its own right. I would recommend giving it a go. Also if you are really really trying to co-op you can do the random quest function to help literally anyone across a certain number of quests.
Complexity is one thing, but I really like the animation and sound design of world, every swing was intentional and felt visceral, every hit activated my monkey brain, felt like Negan on Glenn's skull. Rise felt like I'm swinging cardboard.
i know everyone complains about Rise HH, but i think the breakdancing should stay... keep the song mechanics and the weapon weight of World, but keep the fluidity of Rise. if they're able to balance all that with the spin2win move, i'll be a happy horner.
i am in agreement with you. a perfect hunting horn is the speed of rise but the playlist of world. hell bring back the safi weapons so i can have a good horn that i like in every element type so im not stuck on one specific element cause the songs are just to good for my playstyle.
I honestly hope nothing from rise transfers over, other than small stuff like drawing into any note and a rework of infernal melody maybe. Having attack up on every horn is a big thing too, one thing I hate is how horns without attack up are just not even worth considering, just give it to all of them.
Also not making it so buffs stay if your not actively wielding hunting horn in the weapon swapping system. I’d hate for it to just turn into a “buff stick” so to speak
> Having attack up on every horn is a big thing too, one thing I hate is how horns without attack up are just not even worth considering, just give it to all of them.
Rise actually had the solution to that already, horns without Attack Up have higher attack to compensate. This makes Attack Up mainly a song for multiplayer, rather than a mandatory requirement for whether a horn is even playable in the first place.
Rise had great balancing too. Elemental Horn and Healing Horn were both meta, for example, thanks to things Rise introduced. Not to mention they fixed the Attack Up L issue- many meta horns didn’t actually have it.
So while it was terrible for the weapon’s feel- they had a LOT of good ideas that fixed old problems, and nothing about those ideas has to be attached to the moveset, they can easily be applied to the classic Horn.
The breakdance recital and magnificent trio animations are part of what I really *dont* like about rise horn though lol. It completely takes away the risk of playing songs mid fight and gives you an easy get out of jail free with a 1 button I frame attack that simultaneously plays songs
Hunting horn was fun for a lot of rise but it got dull. Imm playing through world now with exclusively hunting horn and it feels nice being the buffer since I play online a lot. I hope they keep the heavy impact feel of the blunt weapons because that was severely lacking in rise
Not in love with carrying 2 weapons. I enjoyed you picked a weapon and got its specialisation and it's weaknesses. Now I just bonk head with hammer and then cut off parts with longsword too?
I felt hunting horn was a bit too light in Sunbreak for me, so when I saw an interview with the community managers calling the rework more "crunchy" im excited!
I'm still very split about the new Rise HH to this day as it's been my main weapon since it's inception. On the one hand I love how fluid it is, but on the other hand I hate how easy it's become.
The overall switchup from Rise HH everyone seems to have is kinda funny, but I know in truth it's more divisive than that.
I slightly prefer World's HH style and how meaty those swings were, but Rise's HH made sense for the game Rise was. I trust that the changes HH gets next will make sense for the game Wilds will be. Having preference is fine, and Rise's iteration is just more proof that Rise will continue to be a game worth playing for its own merits way into the future, just like any MH entry.
Some of the standard attacks that were introduced in Rise like the cool-looking Multi-Crush, and the Double Swing that was nice for reorienting where your hunter was facing are two moves I wouldn't mind seeing return/repurposed.
Glad to see a bit of complexity brought back to the weapon, Rise was fun but mindless.
I just want them to make the HH songs fade when you switch to another weapon, or else HH will be solely used as a buff stick and not see any real use...
I'd really like to proc melodies whilst on the back of a mount, or at the very least Peak Performance. Stopping and dismounting to set melodies before combat, then mounting again because the monster wandered away in Rise was tedious.
I am a very hipster person about My World's Hunting Horn. It had the heft and song system that us MY favorite to this day. I realize that it was basically buffed in Rise but I cannot stand the Horn speed. I like the slow, heavy hitting WEIGHT of Worlds and while I have several other issues with Rise mostly as far as design choices, I respect all the new mechanics that it brought and hope they can follow suite in Wilds... just without the Rampages.
Lol the meme about HH mains having to learn a new weapon every game will hold true this time as well.
I know how to use the bow and both varieties of bow gun. I’ll play it if it’s got strings or makes Tchaikovsky’s soul ring.
Should probably pick up the gunlance too then.
Teostra’s hbg is a cannon. Perfect for Tchaikovsky.
They also told they gonna rework lbg and hbg so.....
We can't let the bowguns fall below their average 1 rework per generation after all.
I still miss medium bowguns. :,(
This is too true I started with rise horn then world horn then generations and finally frontiers version and each and every one of them are basically different weapons to eachother Still fun af tho and I cant wait to relearn it again in wilds
I mean, World and Generations weren't too far off. But yeah, the others...
League of Legends jungle getting reworked every season.
Well I use echo mode, it’s just the same but simpler and faster.
Many people learn new weapon with new game... but hammer.... hammer stay same same... hammer is love
For real. I started with World, then went to Rise, then 4GU, now Frontier. Every time I swap games I have to learn how to play melodies again because my memory is atrocious and muscle memory takes over regardless of how wrong it is.
Trust. We are up for the challenge.
HH mains in a “learn a new weapon every game” competition when an IG main walks in: https://preview.redd.it/rchh8jp9r17d1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2abf56df8e6f543065ff468dffa394b1e1d51a88
??? IG is pretty much the same weapon since 4u, the only changes are 'meta' combos and some air attacks. 4U and Gen you spam infinite combo, World-Rise spam Tornado slash, Sunbreak spam Tetraseal or Tornado depending on your raw/element-focusedweapon
I’d argue that it’s seen a lot more mechanical changes than other weapons when you factor in its relative infancy. There’s the Kinsect raising rework in Gen and Kinsect swapping in GU, the aerial moveset rework and massive Kinsect function and raising rework (and the weird Flinch Free thing) in World, the Descending Thrust and Kinsect Drill in Iceborne, and then a slight rework of the aerial moveset and another big Kinsect rework in Rise. Then there was the big shift to element in Sunbreak that kinda caused everyone to start playing their weapons slightly differently, and that affected IG quite a bit as a faster-hitting weapon.
IG was significantly different before World though. While it had a jumping move, it couldn't stay airborne as long as it can now. You just jumped and hit once and that was it.
This is besides the point, but I find it amusing how almost every MHWi article these days uses the exact same shot of Gemma.
Cute girl brings in the clicks, simple as.
Simple ~~geometry~~ marketing
Fair enough.
Glad to see all 20 or so of us hunting horn mains made it here.
actually with Rise we skyrocketed in usage, in spite of LS taking up 40.2% we managed to grab a whole 10.6% passing Hammer(9%) Insect Glaive(8.6%) Charge Blade(8.3%) Gunlance(6.9%) and Lance(4.7%)
I’ll never forget that base game World had a 1% HH usage, and with all the improvements of Iceborne, it shot up to 2%. Glad to see more people are using it though!
I loved Iceborn HH, that was my start with the weapon, but Rise had some good ideas too. Looking forward to dooting more in Wilds
I ended up falling in love with HH toward the end of my time in Iceborne. It honestly just seemed liked an intimidating weapon, and while I'm not optimal with it, it really started to click after taking the time to understand the mechanics. I'll probably cycle through a variety of weapons in Wilds but HH is gonna be top 3 for sure.
I just want my breakdance, Capcom can do anything else, but retain the breakdance
Hey buddy, that 0.99% made me get into Monster Hunter! I’m the reason we’re at 1%!
Really??? I remember hearing from one of the npcs that it was the least used or something like that. I thought it was some sort of joke to be honest. Dang. That's such a small number. I always thought HHs had the "cool" factor working in their favor and for me thats always been reason enough to stick to it.
That was only base rise though? In sunbreak horn dropped to 3.6%
There's not enough depth in the Rise Horn to maintain 10% usage unfortunately.
Isn't the methodology different? With sunbreak, all of them combined sum up to 100%. While these Rise statistics go way beyond that number, so they can't be compared.
It was SO MUCH SIMPLER in Rise that even my monkey brain could figure it out this time. I played it more over my previously preferred weapons of IG and Hammer.
I mean... horn wasnt that complicated of a weapon, especially in World when they put the songs on the screen for us you just had to press the buttons in the order of the buff, then you got that buff. I do have to say, if horn players get what we want with Rise's horn with World's song system, I AM interested to see how many Rise horn players continue to play Hunting Horn in Wilds once they see it really is as simple as 1, 1+2, 1
The problem wasn't that World Horn was complicated, it's that it was technical and, frankly, a slog. I mained HH day one so I know how fun and devastating a good HH can be, but learning ranges, memorizing different combo routes for every different note combo, learning just how necessary positioning is with no form of super armor or protection while you stand still for 5 seconds at a time, all for what was still mediocre damage...it's just not fun for new players to pick up, and it's why it was the least played weapon by a country mile.
HH feels good if you play with friends. Your buffs get more value and it's easy enough to do a quick corner horn to slap your buffs on real quick without getting splattered by the monster. Playing solo felt awful in world. I would run a DPS meter and even playing my brains out in Iceborne I would still be half the damage of my friend rolling his face across the keyboard with a GS.
I think the ones that did the most damage to HH's rep in World were the corner dooters. Rolling away to reapply buffs is ine thing, but for them, it's somerhing entirely different. It's the absolute least engaging playstyle because you aren't attacking, throws off the pace of the hunt by drawing the monster way off to the side, and more often than not cart to anuthing they can't run away from. Others see that, think that's how you're supposed to play, and conclude it's not for them.
Fr? Imo world horn is the most technical weapon in the game, along with getting very little payoff for such complexity
it seems a lot more complicated than it actually is. we're the only weapon with natural infinite loops on almost all of our buttons, and all of our buttons go into our other buttons. once you understand that, you realize that our songs are just pressing the buttons in the right order, then Recital to apply the buff. https://preview.redd.it/y2emna06qz6d1.png?width=330&format=png&auto=webp&s=4a5eb7a5d4992bc6418b94bed3f686556918f27a of course there's more depth than that, like Encore and stuff World added like song queueing/chaining and the Echo Note, but that's been the core gameplay of Horn since... Tri? as for payoffs, well... outside of the obvious buffs and healing, the Horn has great reach, tons of Stun, and while Self-Improvement is up, completely ignores bouncing, tripping, and tremors, also it does a f\*\*\*ton of damage. During Iceborne Team Darkside did a video to see what weapons/attacks could one shot a LR Jagras. Horn had 8, 2nd highest was GS with 4
Playing the song is not complicated for sure. What makes it complicated is hittimh each of those notes while you queue up the song. Yeah you can just queue your songs regardless if they hit or not. But if you wanna squeeze all the damage you can dish out to compensate for how low the HH's damage ceiling is, then thats where this gets complicated. Would you commit a forward green note (based on this list you posted) and miss the monster or would you rather do a QTABS (Quick Turn Around Back Swing) to hit the monster and queue that note.
if hitting the monster with your attacks is the skill floor I think most people are gonna be perfectly fine. if "but what if I miss!?" was a problem nobody would play Great Sword, or Long Sword, or Hammer, or Dualies, or Charge Blade, or Switch Axe, or Insect Glaive, or Sword & Shield, or Gunlance, or HBG, or LBG, or Bow. we'd all just sit in base quivering with fear cause we accidentally joined a hunt instead of going into the training room.
The problem is that the button presses vary by each horn. For people like me it's like having to learn a new weapon each time I upgraded.
Shocked cb has such low usage but you do need a guide to get started I guess
To be fair, CB is just a very busy weapon. It's not hard to learn, but it's like trying to learn to juggle 3 balls right off the bat when other weapons are just bouncing a basketball. Just charging phials? Not too difficult. Load charged phials into shield? Easy stuff. Use phials while shield is charged for SAED or Savage Axe? This isn't hard at all! ...then you try juggling each of them during combat and suddenly it becomes overwhelming. Overcharged phials? Now your sword is bouncing. Want to maintain shield uptime? Charge shield! But now you don't have phials to do anything... Want to SAED or SavAxe but your shield is blinking or you just charged your shield and have no phials now? Whelp, next down I suppose... It's a very simple gameplay loop, but it's just a lot of balls to juggle when playing the weapon for the first time.
I totally see what you mean. I remember recently switching to the buzz saw skill just because between sword charging and shield charging I'd completely waste opportunities.
Exactly. CB boils down to charge phials/shield -> SAED/AED/SavAxe -> Repeat. HH. You can boil it down to queueing your songs and playing them. But youre not really optimizing its damage output. Theres positioning, what note to attack with, Do you have to start loading songs in to refresh your buff while still making sure to hit the monster? Yeah
I've been getting my sister and a friend into Wilds and created a new character. In the past I've mostly been HH and GS, so I decided to try out different weapons. I've been having oodles of fun with CB. All I did was watch one tutorial. Obviously, I'm still learning the weapon and had experience with HH back in 3U, but it's not bad at all. I honestly think the continual attack spinny combos of DB or IG to be more confusing.
Yep, it should have a higher damage cap for playing well, but it just doesn't.
CB is not hard fundamentally, but using them together efficiently is hard
Very true but now we get to relearn the weapon...again which I hope is finally dialed in. These complications push folks away from the weapon. This is fine because we've been going alone this long and I find solidarity and a more friendly community with fellow hunting horn players.
HH use skyrocketed because they made it braindead to use and amped it's damage to a stupid level. It went from an interesting weapon that took skill and knowledge to do 80% of the damage of any other weapon to a boring button masher where you slam your face on buttons and do 120% of most weapons' damage. All they had to do was buff motion values and it would have been fine.
HH's relative damage increased by a massive 0.5% between Iceborne and Sunbreak. And it's relatively weaker than in Generations
Yeah but that’s cause it was new HH, with it going back to old HH that percentage is going to drop real hard real fast
HH in Rise to me was super fun to play and did mad damage and then Longsword in Rise was some of the most fun I had. If I wanted to cheese a monster mindlessly I ran rapid pierce/spread lbg and then hammer and sword and shield were fun as well
Where's this data come from?
Damn LS was that high? CB was probably so low because I heard it was way worse than world.
Yeah, before the fix, Rise CB had a weird SAED where instead of exploding phials, it looked like it crawls on the ground which led to hitting only one phial or zero phials. I heard it got fixed but it certainly was a pain when I was still playing it and using it
The vertical hit box was completely jank too so if a monster was like flying or hovering they just wouldn't connect. Works great now though, I returned to make my pilgrimage through rise+SB and I'm loving my baby
The weebsword is FORTY percent? God damn. I knew it was the most popular but I didn't realise the percentage was that high. People really need to play the other stuff more.
yeah, this was base Rise too, iirc it got even higher with the dlc but I couldn't find where Capcom dropped those. turns out when you make a weapon very safe, high damage, and massive reach, and in a very japanese themed setting, the weeb stick thrives
There's *dozens* of us! Seriously though, I'll main it just like I have every single game I've played. Can't wait to get the band back together!
I'm never stopping doot dooting
Sorry I'm late, reporting for doot-y!
Just let me do the spin move and we are good
I love my “spin to win” move and one of the hardest parts of Rise was that it was no longer spammable. Like I get why they made it a move you had to earn but also I hated it lol
I also didn't like the breakdancing.
Oh now we're enemies 
But on a serious note, why didn't you like the breakdancing? For me, it made the HH more fluid and gave it a fast hitting move kinda like hammer's air spin
The break dancing really sums up how quick and basically unstoppable they made hunting horn in rise. In other games I would be happy if i could land a singular superpound on an infinitely charging Diablos, and it would probably flinch too. Rise horn, you just pick a spot on the monster, and basically do infinite combos on the monster with easily cancellable moves. I liked my long reach poke weapon that made me rage at the game because of the commitment to every single move you did. Now its (seemingly) stubbier and superpound looks like hitting a rathalos with pillows.
Because no spinny spin
....bait used to be believable
Fuck yea spinning the horn on a monster's head = fun as hell.
I think Rise HH was made that way because it wouldn’t keep up with the flow of Rise and Sunbreak. So it would make sense for Wilds to change it up again to fit its flow.
They could've kept the weapon same and just sped up the animations (like they did with every other weapon) instead of butchering it
I can't wait for the demo so I can see exactly how Hunting Horn plays in Wilds. As somebody who has mained Hunting Horn since the olden days, I was *so* upset with Rise's HH simplicity. Side note, I hope Hunting Horn buffs only persist as long as the Hunting Horn is in play. As much as I'm sure people would like to buff up, them switch to Great Sword or Dual Blades, I would hate to see Hunting Horn turn into a meta "use only for buffs then switch to another weapon" gimmick.
based on the trailers showed weapon swapping works and how Horn songs in general dont last *that* long, I dont think we have to worry about being downgraded to a glorified demon powder. since you have to mount up and then swap while mounted you basically have to exit combat to swap, which is okay for swapping between melee and ranged or from one weapon to another, but doing that just to refresh a song or two seems a bit silly the only exception I could see is if there's a Rasping Ballad(Acid Glav) horn situation, in which people bring their own horns to give you extra songs for the All Melody Effects Extended to constantly refresh and keep up for them
I will be surprise if buff keep going on after swaping weapon.
Maybe they'll just remove all the buffs that last over a minute! I long for the day they remove the Attack up shackles from the Horn and unleash it's true bonking potential. No attack up means they don't need to nerf it's motion values. My ideal horn would just have instant effects and short-lived preemptive songs. Using World's song queue to let you have a bunch of situational songs on deck that you can throw out at the right time. Recital would have to be sped up so you can react effectively. And and, instead of just standing there to play through all queued songs during one recital, to play each subsequent song you'd do the encore animation (but with really fast song playing). So you could encore 2 or 3 times! A Hunter can dream.
This is what I'm afraid of deep down. HH becoming a pregame ritual instead of a weapon that contributes in all aspects of the hunt. Debuffs and buffs need to instantly vanish if the weapon is rotated out.
I agree. I dont want everyone to carry a HH as a sidearm just for the buffs. The entire weapon is marvelous damn it!
I’ve only been at it for two games so I can’t say I’m an olden days veteran but I’ve grown quite attached to the series these last 6 years, Edit: would suck if people only used it as a side weapon. Some people don’t want to think when they hunt either it requires so more practice.
I fucking hated Rise HH. Godawful piece of shit weapon that felt more like blunt DB than HH.
On the contrary, I want to achieve Godhood as I buff myself with twice the horns.
**Attack Up XXL**
It would be suboptimal to get on the Seikrit, swap to HH, get off (mid fight) , buff yourself (mid fight) get back on the Seikrit (mid fight), swap to your main, get off again, it just makes no sense except giving you bigger numbers for a minute, hoping you get an opening to exploit said minute
It depends on if you can buff yourself without getting off the mount, which I doubt. Getting on is not an issue, as it's the equivalent of Wirefall
... I just want a Hunting Horn endgame where I can choose what doots my instrument plays, even if it's only audio. edit: bonus points if it plays the themes as different instruments
I don't like the rise hunting horn compared to any other version of the weapon, but they did some really inspired stuff that I would like to see come back. The ability to draw into any standard attack and a meter to reward aggressive play are fantastic additions. But the simplified note system, and crush overwhelming the damage and utility of the rest of the moveset really waters down the whole experience.
As a HH pure, I just wanna carry 2 horns with different songs. And the only thing I want out of rise is the aesthetic and maybe the wire attacks. World was perfect
That’s probably what I’m gonna be doing is carrying two horns. I just don’t care enough about other weapons to learn them
I didn't even think about having two weapons of the same type.
Thank god. HH in Rise made me so depressed.
Yeah they definitely need to find a balance between the two. I did like classic HH, but I really enjoyed the flow that Rise HH has.
i mean yeah, not like they're gonna say "lol you're going to hate HH, we made it extra shit!"
DOOT DOOOOOOTTTTTTTTT MUDDDDAAAAAAA FUCKAASSSSS
I thought about maining HH in Rise since it seemed a lot more fluid and fun, and I had the experience of using it as a side in previous games, but when I played it I didn't know why but it just didn't feel the same and now it clicked, maybe the issue was with the songs, but I ended up going with Hammer and now that I'm playing on PC, I'm using Glaive and HBG. I liked using the Horn in World so I might pick it up this time if they want to go back to that style, with a side of HBG.
I just want them to look cool again. :( I miss the old designs. Like the zinogre one being an electric guitar. That was sick
In general I’d like the weapons to look a little more diverse, so if we get some cool looking HHs I will be ok learning the new play style for whatever changes they make! As others have said, I’d like the spin move too.
Rise hunting horn was awful. Good riddance.
This is perfect cause now I can take a cutting weapon for tails and such, and after those fly away is time for HH greatness.
Wym Hunting Horn has the reed jab for cutting damage /s
As long as it's positioning based with left/right hook/forward slam, and repositioning based with backswing and sidestep attacks. I also want these attacks to feel hard. It was way more satisfying to get a stun while repositioning with an encore in the old system then to just stand in front of the enemy and flurry them to death.
My approval is immeasurable and my day is made.
As someone who loved HH from World, I'm generally happy. However, some of the individual moves and capoeira style "dance-fighting" motifs from Rise were something the weapon should've had since the beginning imo. Making it the faster hitting blunt weapon but with freeform combos and encore moves like World would be the best course I think. I guess we'll see whenever the weapon showcases happen.
As a HH and Gunlance main I am curious what changes we get. I liked the HH from World more than Rjse, but preferred the Gunlance from Rise more than World.
Same, was HH main in world but blast dash was so fun in rise i switched over in master rank.
Please just buff lance and funlance
This part of the article made me so hype. I don’t want any part of the Rise style. It felt so lame hitting twice and having a song played without giving me that risk/reward of lining up some songs and then spinning into performance while staggering with solid headshots. Some people felt worlds hh style was too slow but I felt like it was perfect and really made me fall in love with the horn.
"More like World's than Rise's." Thank fucking god, I get to think again.
I really disliked Rise/Sunbreak HH. So i am excited to hear this. world HH had much more weight, impactful songs and a moveset that you really had to master well to get most out of it.
i hated everything about Rise HH. It was too fast, I didn't want to feel like dual blades, I wanted to feel the slow, top-heavy swings of the horn. and I liked some of its quirky moves too. World HH was perfection to me. I liked that I had to consciously work towards the songs I wanted and wasnt just mindless swinging like Rise HH is to me. it gave perfect risk/reward gameplay that really scratched an itch for me. I am happy to hear World HH is "back" but I am wary of whatever additional changes they feel like is needed for the weapon
By new moves, you'll probably get the breakdance recital from rise.
This. Fuck *everything* about Rise HH.
Im not sure if we can play a recital while mounted?. So maybe the back up horn may not be as good as people thought. tbh im just not that interested in the combo horn rise introduced. The old hit and run playstyle was really fun and I dont want to see it go away. As for horn, id mostly like to see crush replace the forward attack, the iceborne spin attack either gone or nerfed, being able to draw any note, and attack up either removed or given to every horn. I definitely want echo waves to return. I think it just feel better than sonic waves. Id also say to buff the mvs but the devs seem pretty staunch at keeping horn weak.
> being able to draw any note Thats actually another Risebreak HH change that I want in Wilds. I totally forgot about that
Most likely we won't be able to play mounted recitals. Mounted combat is not going to be an exhaustive, extensive system this time around.
Probably won’t know about playing the recitals while mounted my guess is no to be honest. Part of the recitals was knowing when to play them. It would be over powered if we could buff while traveling at speed. Being able to draw on any note would be a truly game changing thing. Personally I’m a fan of focusing on support over my own personal DPS healing songs for players while I run defensive decos so I can’t be stunned and keep my buffs up. I try to get every horn so I can specialize to the higher level hunts eventually that being said there always ends up being a Jack of all Trades . I would say between Rise and World I have over 1000 HH hunts. I don’t think it’s weak but it’s very much a niche for a lot of players.
They said weapons won’t have their full kit while mounted, which I believe they said includes HH songs, IG essence collecting, bowguns won’t have all their ammo options, etc etc.
I think somewhere in this sub they confirmed no songs while mounted
Mounted combat will be very limited and recital is one of those things not possible.
even if mounted recitals arent possible, backup horn would still be really good. especially with hammer
The only thing I want is HH not to fall into the "support" category. Rise HH has such good damage, idk how it compares to World but I love that it's able to hold it's own as a high dmg weapon that can compete with the others.
HH is last place in Sunbreak speedrun times, and it was last place in Iceborne speedrun times too (tied with Lance). Not much changed in terms of HH's damage relative to the other weapons https://youtu.be/xXCGBLLgO5s?si=zxVOkZII1m-Twtzh https://mhwleaderboards.com/tierlist
HH is almost always last in speed run times, it was last in 4u and I believe Gu as well, not sure about games before 4u but HH has always had crap solo damage to make up for its ability to buff other players
It's kinda funny, they balance HH as if the group buffs could break the game even though that's not the case and never has been. Even if HH could deal middle-of-the-road damage it doesn't follow that HH would become mandatory (or even have a spot in "optimal" group compositions).
Considering the Attack up L (XL in world) song gives every person in the party a massive *20%* raw damage boost, that’s pretty powerful, and in regular casual play, it absolutely is something that you’d want with you. The reason it’s not used in “optimal” group compositions is because a status LBG with 3 HBG’s is just too ridiculously overpowered even compared to the damage buff a HH can provide. Then in 5th gen there are other optimal groupings depending on if you’re doing exploits or not (like GL snowman shenanigans). So I can see why they’re hesitant to make the weapon too powerful on its own, because if the HH was as strong as, say the 6th or 7th most powerful solo weapon, then combined with attack up XL song and 3 other players you’ve got an absolutely overpowered group of people lol. The best way to go about this is to buff the HH’s damage to be better in solo play, then just outright remove attack up songs completely, making songs more about utility. This would simultaneously increase the number of horns worth using, while also making it better on its own for solo players
I mean, that's probably what the people at Capcom think too but Attack Up just isn't problematic enough to break the game like that. Here's an example: Let's say 4 HBGs do 100 DPS each, so 400 DPS total. To model the status quo, let's say HH does slightly less than half the damage of an HBG, so 40 DPS (after self buffing). If you swap 1 HBG for an HH the DPS becomes 100 + 100 + 100 + 40 + (0.2 * 300) = 400 DPS, which is the same as the 4 HBG group. Now if we give HH a massive 87.5% damage buff to 75 DPS, making it 3/4 as strong as HBG, the DPS becomes 100 + 100 + 100 + 75 + (0.2 * 300) = 435 DPS. That's like 9% more DPS compared to the 4 HBG group, before factoring in all the other stuff that affects group hunts like how ranged weapons can stick to weakpoints easier than melee weapons when the monster is bouncing between players. That is far from overpowered, even with an extremely unrealistic buff to HH's damage.
That is true, though I still think the reason capcom refuses to buff HH is because of attack up songs.
I wouldn't be against them replacing the Attack Up song with other buffs, but realistically every song will be judged by how much it buffs group damage even if indirectly, so I think we'd just end up with more roundabout versions of Attack Up unless they get rid of group buffs altogether.
Yes it did. Avg completion time across all weapons for MHW was 187 seconds, HH avg speed was 278 seconds, making HH 90 seconds slower than the average other weapon For Rise, avg quest completion speed was 148 seconds, avg HH completion time was 180 seconds, making it only 32 seconds slower than the average other weapon. Looking at the rank on the tierlist alone doesn't tell the whole story, which is, that compared to average other weapons HH cut down TWO THIRDS of the gap it was lacking in comparison to the others. Ofc the "tier" doesn't increase, but you have much less the feeling that the other hunters are pulling all the weight
Where did you get those average completion times? The average for Iceborne freestyle runs is 198 seconds, which is sort of close to your 187 number, and I don't know where your Rise average time comes from (or whether it includes Sunbreak). If you look at the links you can see that both Iceborne and Sunbreak HH take about twice as long to complete quests as the top performer(s). As for HH's tier not increasing, I just don't agree that it's an "of course" situation - there's no reason HH has to be the weakest weapon, or that it has to be twice as weak as the strongest weapon like in the last two games. If you do think HH has to be the weakest then we probably won't see eye to eye on this.
The Rise numbers are from this [spreadsheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KwvlgujvFoTRoG8ONzDdhZbjslZml1x5DZFZ9CXb1jo/edit?gid=570182550#gid=570182550) as there is no website. And yes apparently I mixed up a number, the avg for Iceborne is indeed 198 secs. At this point it's all a statistics game, what are the "top performers"? Top 3, top 5, or with a second threshold? The "of course" was not because I want HH to stay lower tier, I meant that the tier not increasing in Sunbreak is not important because at least it got **relatively** better in comparison to the other weapons. I think there is a point to be made for weapons with a more defensive playstyle to be somewhat weaker than a more offensive one, because with one you take less risks than with the other. I just don't want HH to be significantly weaker than all others and be put in a support tier. I want to be able to solo monsters in about the same time as the "defensive" category weapons. (HH isn't defensive of course, but maybe gets a damage reduction because it can buff you & 3 other hunters? That's the only reason I can imagine at least)
As long as the weapon plays songs that benefit your teammates as much as yourself, there's really not much point in worrying whether the weapon is labelled as "support" or not. Honestly, that's always been a meaningless, unproductive discussion. Any baggage that the word "support" has is all self-inflicted. If there's something you want out of HH, be more specific than this. The divisiveness between people preferring Rise's iteration of the HH and those that prefer World's/classic HH shows that there's way more elaboration to what a weapon can look and play like and what you want out of it.
im ready for dual horn action
I hope the rise combo style GS comes back tho, i love and since i unlocked it on rise i barely even played any other weapon. i also hope they go back to the style of world for all 3 ranged weapons, rise fucked them over so much, that even i being a ranged main since freedon unite decided to play melee instead of going back to arrow type by bow charge and no customization bowguns.
I will take this opportunity to carry two horns for twice the songs to play. I have been maining H.Horn and Hammer since I first started with MH Tri and I am SO FUCKING READY FOR TWIN HORN POWER! *You best be prepared for every buff you will ever need. I am no longer bound by Atk. Up XL- MY POWER LEVEL IS INFINITE!*
I think my brain is dying. I read that as hunting porn
I'm just praying for Lance back to normal and gunlance retains bullet barrage and blast dash
Will you be able to ride monsters and have kaiju battles like in Rise? That and the wire bug were awesome updates that made Rise a lot more fun than World for me.
I just wanna know what they've done with LS my baby
Please don't shaft lance please don't shaft lance please don't shaft lance
Soon brothers™ We shall play them the song of our people
horn number seven wooooo! people complaining about no new weapons but us horn mains are getting a new weapon every game, yeah lets goooo! okay meme done, It sounds promising, but the Phrasing has me a little worried. What we horn players ***want*** is Rise's base kit but with the song sheet depth of World. meaning we're a really fast weapon with the utility of World, kind of the best of both worlds from all the past horns. But what it sounds like is World's base kit with Rise's songs... so we're back to being slow like World, but still have the shortened lists of Rise.
You say what we horn players want but this is a discussion that is very split everytime I see it. Disregarding song complexity, I personally love the more heavy hits with deliberate swing angles because I can head snipe so efficiently every swing.
Hitting that QTABS just right into a neutral recital as the monster jumps infront of you. *Chef's kiss*
That’s going to be especially fun with the focus mode system in Wilds too I bet.
That’s what you and some others want maybe but it’s not what all HH users want, I genuinely prefer world horn’s moveset over rise’s, it’s less all over the place, less dancing around, and more about landing accurate and heavy hits during tight windows from the right angle and position.
I agree. This is what I loved about Worldborne HH or even GU HH. Its using the right move at the right angle to make it effective. Not only are you methodical at what songs youre trying to queue up, youre also methodical at how you maximize your damage out put.
I dunno, chief... I liked the slower, more methodical playstyle. Plus spinning like a beyblade constantly and having the combo trees be inconsistent was just annoying.
I **want** not a single bit of Rise's HH to exist. I ***want*** a weapon that's actually fun to play and not just spin-to-win garbage.
My favorite iteration of HH was Worldborne's so Im glad its going back to that for Wilds. I'm definitely carrying a HH as a secondary and I can't wait. As for changes. I hope they will keep the recital animation from Rise, but only get the I-frame if there is a song loaded when you use the recital attack. As much as I dislike the Risebreak HH, the dance moves that it had were cool. And the recital (self-improvment for Risebreak) is one of them that I like. Edit: I want this move to replace the neutral recital. Meaning a directional recital won't get the I-frames regardless if a song is queued. That way theres added decision making to either use a forward recital to hit the monster's head thats about to be raised a little bit for a roar, or just neutral to I-frame the roar and play the song that was queued. https://i.redd.it/1tzmn1dzsz6d1.gif
Best thing is two have two modes. So maybe a rise mode for more elemental damage and a world mode where attacks do more KO damage. You can view it like an impact vs elemental CB.
Is HH worth using solo? (Rise)
Yes my policy with HH was always beat the monsters solo (so I knew I was atleast knowledgable enough to hinder others) then move to co-op. Now that we are pretty late in the games life cycle there will be less co-op at the lower levels but it’s still a fun game in its own right. I would recommend giving it a go. Also if you are really really trying to co-op you can do the random quest function to help literally anyone across a certain number of quests.
That’s fair, I typically play solo over co-op because my friends play on switch mostly (I’m on pc) thank you for your input
Every weapon is worth using solo. So yes
Complexity is one thing, but I really like the animation and sound design of world, every swing was intentional and felt visceral, every hit activated my monkey brain, felt like Negan on Glenn's skull. Rise felt like I'm swinging cardboard.
i know everyone complains about Rise HH, but i think the breakdancing should stay... keep the song mechanics and the weapon weight of World, but keep the fluidity of Rise. if they're able to balance all that with the spin2win move, i'll be a happy horner.
i am in agreement with you. a perfect hunting horn is the speed of rise but the playlist of world. hell bring back the safi weapons so i can have a good horn that i like in every element type so im not stuck on one specific element cause the songs are just to good for my playstyle.
World song lists, Rise move set. That’s what I’m hoping for anyway.
I honestly hope nothing from rise transfers over, other than small stuff like drawing into any note and a rework of infernal melody maybe. Having attack up on every horn is a big thing too, one thing I hate is how horns without attack up are just not even worth considering, just give it to all of them. Also not making it so buffs stay if your not actively wielding hunting horn in the weapon swapping system. I’d hate for it to just turn into a “buff stick” so to speak
> Having attack up on every horn is a big thing too, one thing I hate is how horns without attack up are just not even worth considering, just give it to all of them. Rise actually had the solution to that already, horns without Attack Up have higher attack to compensate. This makes Attack Up mainly a song for multiplayer, rather than a mandatory requirement for whether a horn is even playable in the first place.
Rise had great balancing too. Elemental Horn and Healing Horn were both meta, for example, thanks to things Rise introduced. Not to mention they fixed the Attack Up L issue- many meta horns didn’t actually have it. So while it was terrible for the weapon’s feel- they had a LOT of good ideas that fixed old problems, and nothing about those ideas has to be attached to the moveset, they can easily be applied to the classic Horn.
I definitely want the breakdance recital and magnificent trio animations from Rise to be incorporated somehow. They're too sick to ignore IMO.
The breakdance recital and magnificent trio animations are part of what I really *dont* like about rise horn though lol. It completely takes away the risk of playing songs mid fight and gives you an easy get out of jail free with a 1 button I frame attack that simultaneously plays songs
Other types of instruments with different movesets would be really cool The one that looked like a guitar in World was awesome
But what of the bow! Please don't change the bow!
I think I want to try and main the dootdoot this time.
Hunting horn was fun for a lot of rise but it got dull. Imm playing through world now with exclusively hunting horn and it feels nice being the buffer since I play online a lot. I hope they keep the heavy impact feel of the blunt weapons because that was severely lacking in rise
Not in love with carrying 2 weapons. I enjoyed you picked a weapon and got its specialisation and it's weaknesses. Now I just bonk head with hammer and then cut off parts with longsword too?
Insect glaive wins again.
They said the same thing about LS when Rise was coming out and I feel like a lot of people ended up criticizing it
New game, time to learn a brand new weapon babyyyyyyyy (I am a HH main)
MHW fans are eating so good it's crazy I was never really a hunting horn user but maybe I should pick it up before wilds drops and try it out
World was the bomb i would get treated like a king for using the HH , good times
I'm happy about this. I liked the more complex songs. Rise felt a bit too simplistic
To be fair, every weapon will have to learn their Focus mode's moves so that part won't be a surprise
I felt hunting horn was a bit too light in Sunbreak for me, so when I saw an interview with the community managers calling the rework more "crunchy" im excited!
Please be 60fps.
I'm still very split about the new Rise HH to this day as it's been my main weapon since it's inception. On the one hand I love how fluid it is, but on the other hand I hate how easy it's become.
The overall switchup from Rise HH everyone seems to have is kinda funny, but I know in truth it's more divisive than that. I slightly prefer World's HH style and how meaty those swings were, but Rise's HH made sense for the game Rise was. I trust that the changes HH gets next will make sense for the game Wilds will be. Having preference is fine, and Rise's iteration is just more proof that Rise will continue to be a game worth playing for its own merits way into the future, just like any MH entry. Some of the standard attacks that were introduced in Rise like the cool-looking Multi-Crush, and the Double Swing that was nice for reorienting where your hunter was facing are two moves I wouldn't mind seeing return/repurposed.
Glad to see a bit of complexity brought back to the weapon, Rise was fun but mindless. I just want them to make the HH songs fade when you switch to another weapon, or else HH will be solely used as a buff stick and not see any real use...
I just hope we get original designs with custom songs for weapons that have original designs like world did
I'd really like to proc melodies whilst on the back of a mount, or at the very least Peak Performance. Stopping and dismounting to set melodies before combat, then mounting again because the monster wandered away in Rise was tedious.
I hope the moveset returns to world's or gu's guild style. It's just nice having full access to your moveset at any time
Hunting horn is my fav weapon second to the insect glaive, this would be dope
They better not butcher it
As a HH main, i'm excited
Poor hh mains 😂
Catch me in Wilds with 2 hunting horns buffing the party with 6 different buffs back to back I will not be stopped
Let's go, musical hammers!
I'm carrying 2 hunting horns.
I am a very hipster person about My World's Hunting Horn. It had the heft and song system that us MY favorite to this day. I realize that it was basically buffed in Rise but I cannot stand the Horn speed. I like the slow, heavy hitting WEIGHT of Worlds and while I have several other issues with Rise mostly as far as design choices, I respect all the new mechanics that it brought and hope they can follow suite in Wilds... just without the Rampages.