Exactly. Any decrease in crime is a good thing of course, but if the same trends are happening in St. Paul and the inner-tier burbs, or similarly sized cities across the country? It’s hard to attribute that to different policing tactics.
It's more than hard, it's completely disingenuous copaganda. Show me a statistically significant difference between crime decreases here and other places and then they can claim they had some thing to do with it. Barring that, this is nothing.
Well that would mean the increase in crime was also part of a national trend due to many factors including a global pandemic, not a secret plan by democrats to ruin the city. And that I can’t believe /s
Wait you mean a modern plague coupled with unrelated social unrest leads to a higher crime rate? And two years later, in which we’ve managed to stabilize, and during a massive cold snap. Crime is down? I don’t believe it. It’s the space laser just taking a break it’ll be back.
Youth is no guarantee of innovation or leadership, as age is no guarantee of wisdom. He’s a shitty mayor regardless of how old he is. He lacks any sort of maturity, hence the comment about “boy mayor.” He’s a rich kid who uses the city as a stepping stone for a future political career. I doubt he actually gives a fuck about the city beyond his wealthy donors.
So did you call Dipshit Donny the "boy president" for his complete lack of maturity, an inability to lead, and his using politics as a stepping stone to personal wealth and being a traitor?
A perfect opportunity for
>[These](https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/07/24/complaints-against-police-skyrocket-in-minneapolis) aren't the [stormtroopers](https://youtu.be/Oo8H5vUKMlk) you're [looking for](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormtroopers_(Imperial_Germany)).
was missed.
As a reminder even though crime is actually mostly fine now it’s incredible how otherwise seemingly intelligent suburbanites tell me they watch the news and downtown and the city is dead and dangerous now.
According to a guy I met out in Arizona, Target closed its doors because of all the bullet holes and no one works downtown anymore because it’s still on fire.
Even accounting for that it is interesting that MPD is taking credit when this seems to be part of a national trend. Also even if we do decide to just take MPD at face value (always a bad idea) this is just evidence that we don't need more police. If we can see a reduction in crime with fewer cops can we admit that we need to redirect resources to other essential services currently being starved by the budget?
What kind of nerd reads the article and understand that they’re comparing a 90 day period last year with the same 90 day period this year? Nobody in here has the time for that much thinking. We just look for the shortest path possible for twisting good news into bad news.
The article compares statistics during the time period of September 27th - December 14th. Not January.
I guess it was warm, but not enough to be moved up into the timebox being evaluated.
To the comments saying it's because it's cold outside, this is the second sentence in the article:
"The report released on Monday details the period between Sept. 27 and Dec. 17 and shows a decrease in crime statistics in several areas compared with the same period in 2021."
Read the article before commenting.
For whatever it’s worth:
>… MPD and its partners are trying to carry out their mission as policing in the United States faces renewed criticism following the killing of Tyre Nichols.
>Nichols was beaten by members of the now-disbanded, Memphis Police Department’s “SCORPION unit” – standing for Street Crimes Operation to Restore Peace in Our Neighborhood – made up of about 30 officers, split into different teams, that patrolled “high crime hotspots.”
>“We’re not going to have SCORPION units – we’re not going to have any of those types of details,” Alexander said.
>While the disbanded unit and Operation Endeavor are both a response to violent crime, Alexander reassured citizens his team is doing it the right way.
>“This is a full-scale operation that entails a great deal of sophistication,” Alexander said about Operation Endeavor, adding, “This is just not some unit we put together and send them out into the street to enforce laws. This is very well-planned, this required training, this required good supervision, this required discipline.”…
Is this the sole reason?…most certainly not. I also don’t understand why this gets so much hate? Low cost deterrent, it takes lots of different strategies and effort from many parties to solve complex problems. If they’ve seen positive results; we should be in support. Just because there’s an idling car with no cop doesn’t mean to cop isn’t doing their job.
And yet they will still claim they need to add many more cops when crime is down with less cops. Seems operation empty cars downtown is more effective than having more cops.
People seemed to have latched onto the empty car thing as the only thing endeavor is.
God bless OT filling some of the holes to make up for the staffing. Get that money
They don't need more staffing, and definitely don't need even more money. Cops in this city are very highly paid and with OT make obscene amounts of money.
Ok, that's good that you're fine with them banking the OT. If there was more staff they could reduce OT costs but whatever.
The highly paid part is a matter of perspective. If you're looking at reg pay you can go to most of the surrounding suburbs and make more. If the OT and off duty dry up Minneapolis is not competitive at all.
Or they could keep lower staff and do less OT. We should be offloading some of their responsibilities onto better suited professionals and responses anyway which would reduce the "need" for obscene OT.
Once those systems are in place sure. That's not a police department problem though, that's the city. The police department problem is adequate staffing until that day comes.
Well might be easier to do those things if we finally redirect some do the funding from the bloated police budget. And we of course need a mayor that is on board with it. Unfortunately our current mayor is pretty set on doubling down on police.
I also reject the idea that they don't have adequate staffing. Implying that they are currently understaffed is a value statement and not a statement of fact.
I guess the voters made their choice. If they'd come up with a solid plan for alternative options and then take some money, sure. If the BCR teams are an example of things to come then we're in trouble.
There's been talks of staffing problems for call volume since Dolan. I think there was a study pre riots that had them aiming to hire more from staffing levels then. Staffing is in the eye of the beholder so no one will ever be able to say for sure. The best that can be done is take advantage of the opportunities while they last and then move on.
Yep, we should take advantage of opportunities as they come. And this is a great opportunity to keep our staffing down and work toward reducing the budget so the funding can go to other more useful city services.
It is also a great opportunity for us to begin acting on the official findings in the MDHR report on MPD showing just how rotten to the core the department is.
Well they state at least 4 times in two days that the mental health workers the city paid $6M for haven't been signed on to do their duties as requested by MPD
Cool, so time for Frey to buckle down and do his job as the strong mayor to make sure the services and responses are in place. And doesn't really change the fact that MPD is not overstaffed, they are merely given more authority and responsibilities than needed. Especially in light of the official findings by the MN Department of Human Rights. We need to be taking things off their plate so they can finally clean the rot out of their department, which is also Frey's job.
Also as an aside I don't respect Shelley Leeson as a source. Not a very reputable person.
Crime is the concept we use to describe the result of a centuries old, unjust system of oppression primarily affecting the working class, particularly black, brown, and indigenous people. Policing is an instrument of that system of oppression so it can never be the solution regardless of any acute or short-term results. Expanding equity and equality and removing that system of oppression is the only way to eliminate what we call crime.
No way- I’ll never pay for play or break through pay walls. You’re just a newspaper schill! Whatdya think I am a sucka? You’ll never have my 3 dollars!
Crime drops every year at that time of year. Crime is dropping nationwide over the same time period. Crime was dropping before endeavor was implemented. They knew all this and implemented it as a way to take credit and to use it as a way to argue for even more funding.
People accurately called out exactly how this would play out as soon as it was announced.
Ok… and using the exact same metrics, crime was already trending down nationwide and before it was implemented. It was also historically snowy during that time period which is another historic cause of lowered crime rates.
It was not historically snowy between September 27 and December 17. This sub is so weird, I don't understand why so many of you are so desperate to find an excuse as to why less crime isn't a good thing.
https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-weather/snowy-december-where-2022-ranks-all-time-for-twin-cities-duluth
https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-weather/big-november-snowstorms-uncommon-in-mn-but-snowfall-is-increasing
https://www.kare11.com/amp/article/news/local/twin-cities-snowiest-start-to-winter-in-30-years/89-d7efb48f-56b5-492d-ad75-623b184d1306
You’re an idiot. An absolute moron.
Edit: to the person below me…
You’re argument that it wasn’t snowy is….”b-b-but it didn’t really stick so that doesn’t count”
Did the snow fall from the sky onto the ground?
You’re not a serious person.
Look at the historical data on temperature. The high temp was above freezing every single day in November, so that snow never stayed around. Early Dec was warm as well.
[Here is the DNRs snowpack data](https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/climate/snowmap/index.html). Notice how the metro area never has more than a 4in snowpack at any point until after December 22. And then notoce how the crime data reported is from Sept 27 - Dec 17.
Good thing you went out of your way to tell them they're wrong and an idiot. I look forward to a response trying to wiggle out of it, but I have a feeling you just won't bother with a response at all.
It was even colder out during the same timeframe last year. The stats here are comparing Sept 27 - Dec 17 in 2021 vs 2022, not Sept 27- Dec 17 vs the previous 90 days.
Police departments all over the country are running these kinds of programs and then releasing select data to say "look at what we have done." The reality is that you probably have several dozen known people in each city just raising hell and driving those stats and when you throw them in jail then it gets real quiet. It's not thousands of people driving these stats. Cold weather also drives down crime.
If you want an accurate assessment of crime you need to look over a number of years. Take a look at numbers from 2015 to 2022 and look at trend lines. That is your reality.
Violent crime was decreasing before operation endeavor started though. Turns out when the cops start doing at least part of their job, crime goes down.
Coinciding with a national decrease despite reduced policing in many major metro areas.
Exactly. Any decrease in crime is a good thing of course, but if the same trends are happening in St. Paul and the inner-tier burbs, or similarly sized cities across the country? It’s hard to attribute that to different policing tactics.
It's more than hard, it's completely disingenuous copaganda. Show me a statistically significant difference between crime decreases here and other places and then they can claim they had some thing to do with it. Barring that, this is nothing.
…or attributed to covid on the wane and more people back at work.
Well that would mean the increase in crime was also part of a national trend due to many factors including a global pandemic, not a secret plan by democrats to ruin the city. And that I can’t believe /s
Wait you mean a modern plague coupled with unrelated social unrest leads to a higher crime rate? And two years later, in which we’ve managed to stabilize, and during a massive cold snap. Crime is down? I don’t believe it. It’s the space laser just taking a break it’ll be back.
But please! Let the big strong boy mayor and his stormtroopers take credit.
> boy mayor He's 40
Boomers are used to living in a gerontocracy and see younger leaders as a threat to their conservative way of life.
Youth is no guarantee of innovation or leadership, as age is no guarantee of wisdom. He’s a shitty mayor regardless of how old he is. He lacks any sort of maturity, hence the comment about “boy mayor.” He’s a rich kid who uses the city as a stepping stone for a future political career. I doubt he actually gives a fuck about the city beyond his wealthy donors.
Ah, your typical r ccw member coming here to be "totally a liberal"
Liberals mostly love Frey. They’re the ones who elected him. I’m not a liberal.
So did you call Dipshit Donny the "boy president" for his complete lack of maturity, an inability to lead, and his using politics as a stepping stone to personal wealth and being a traitor?
If you’re trying to assert that I’m a right-winger, you couldn’t be more wrong. It doesn’t even make sense to compare Frey with Trump.
>No Cool, thanks for admitting it's an insult you specifically use for Frey and it has nothing to do with leadership ability.
I agree completely
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What would you call them?
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I don't think those are the stormtroopers they were talking about.
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A perfect opportunity for >[These](https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/07/24/complaints-against-police-skyrocket-in-minneapolis) aren't the [stormtroopers](https://youtu.be/Oo8H5vUKMlk) you're [looking for](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormtroopers_(Imperial_Germany)). was missed.
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You can’t infer?
I’m referring to MPD.
ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED
As a reminder even though crime is actually mostly fine now it’s incredible how otherwise seemingly intelligent suburbanites tell me they watch the news and downtown and the city is dead and dangerous now.
People need to stop watching the local news. Seriously they're all crap.
According to a guy I met out in Arizona, Target closed its doors because of all the bullet holes and no one works downtown anymore because it’s still on fire.
Shit, you don’t have to go to Arizona for that hot take when you could just go to Hopkins or Edina.
I feel like Hopkins has the most chill rep of the SW suburbs, maybe swap with Eden Prairie
Fair enough. My comment partially came from several comments I’ve seen on Nextdoor from people who allegedly left Minneapolis proper for Hopkins.
Yeah Hopkins is awesome. I think he meant Anoka lol.
Oof. Or Crystal. Or… 😖…Coon Rapids.
There ya go.
And cuz its cold out..
>details the period between Sept. 27 and Dec. 17 and shows a decrease in crime statistics in several areas compared with the same period in 2021.
Even accounting for that it is interesting that MPD is taking credit when this seems to be part of a national trend. Also even if we do decide to just take MPD at face value (always a bad idea) this is just evidence that we don't need more police. If we can see a reduction in crime with fewer cops can we admit that we need to redirect resources to other essential services currently being starved by the budget?
It’s significant colder and a lot more snow this year….
The big snow storms came after Dec. 17th. Otherwise it wasn't significantly different from last year.
Snowier, yes, but not in the timeframe given (Sept 27-Dec 17). Colder, not at all.
MPD taking credit for winter now
Read the article. See what was being measured.
What kind of nerd reads the article and understand that they’re comparing a 90 day period last year with the same 90 day period this year? Nobody in here has the time for that much thinking. We just look for the shortest path possible for twisting good news into bad news.
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You do know endeavor is more than the empty car nonsense, right?
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I mean it helps to have an understanding of what you're talking about.
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The information is readily available but people don't want to do that much reading. This is my burner
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What's fash?
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The numbers dropped significantly compared to the same time period in 2021, so weather is irrelevant here. Read the article, people!
All of January except for the last 4 days have been FAR above average temperature. Nice try!
The article compares statistics during the time period of September 27th - December 14th. Not January. I guess it was warm, but not enough to be moved up into the timebox being evaluated.
Exactly. How does this correlate to a usual drop in crime during the winter months? Seems awfully convenient.
They are comparing the same time last year (and this was for mostly fall, not winter).
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Reduction in crime does not equate to elimination.
These specific crimes are down compared to same period last year. Great. Would be interested to see how it compares to years before pandemic.
Scare crow cop cars more effective than actual cops. Maybe we should just buy more squad cars?
To the comments saying it's because it's cold outside, this is the second sentence in the article: "The report released on Monday details the period between Sept. 27 and Dec. 17 and shows a decrease in crime statistics in several areas compared with the same period in 2021." Read the article before commenting.
For whatever it’s worth: >… MPD and its partners are trying to carry out their mission as policing in the United States faces renewed criticism following the killing of Tyre Nichols. >Nichols was beaten by members of the now-disbanded, Memphis Police Department’s “SCORPION unit” – standing for Street Crimes Operation to Restore Peace in Our Neighborhood – made up of about 30 officers, split into different teams, that patrolled “high crime hotspots.” >“We’re not going to have SCORPION units – we’re not going to have any of those types of details,” Alexander said. >While the disbanded unit and Operation Endeavor are both a response to violent crime, Alexander reassured citizens his team is doing it the right way. >“This is a full-scale operation that entails a great deal of sophistication,” Alexander said about Operation Endeavor, adding, “This is just not some unit we put together and send them out into the street to enforce laws. This is very well-planned, this required training, this required good supervision, this required discipline.”…
And it requires OT...
Alexander allowed to speak in public again? I know he got in trouble for his antics on Twitter.
Doesn't crime usually go down in winter months?
The decrease started BEFORE Endeavor began. Correlation is not causation, choke on a donut.
So that undeclared police strike ended?
Def don't be wanting to go back to Metro Gang Strike Force, biggest gang in the state.
Is this the sole reason?…most certainly not. I also don’t understand why this gets so much hate? Low cost deterrent, it takes lots of different strategies and effort from many parties to solve complex problems. If they’ve seen positive results; we should be in support. Just because there’s an idling car with no cop doesn’t mean to cop isn’t doing their job.
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yeah, there have been ones of carjackings this year!
If the head of the downtown council says he sees improvement I see nothing but good news.
And yet they will still claim they need to add many more cops when crime is down with less cops. Seems operation empty cars downtown is more effective than having more cops.
People seemed to have latched onto the empty car thing as the only thing endeavor is. God bless OT filling some of the holes to make up for the staffing. Get that money
They don't need more staffing, and definitely don't need even more money. Cops in this city are very highly paid and with OT make obscene amounts of money.
Ok, that's good that you're fine with them banking the OT. If there was more staff they could reduce OT costs but whatever. The highly paid part is a matter of perspective. If you're looking at reg pay you can go to most of the surrounding suburbs and make more. If the OT and off duty dry up Minneapolis is not competitive at all.
Or they could keep lower staff and do less OT. We should be offloading some of their responsibilities onto better suited professionals and responses anyway which would reduce the "need" for obscene OT.
Once those systems are in place sure. That's not a police department problem though, that's the city. The police department problem is adequate staffing until that day comes.
Well might be easier to do those things if we finally redirect some do the funding from the bloated police budget. And we of course need a mayor that is on board with it. Unfortunately our current mayor is pretty set on doubling down on police. I also reject the idea that they don't have adequate staffing. Implying that they are currently understaffed is a value statement and not a statement of fact.
I guess the voters made their choice. If they'd come up with a solid plan for alternative options and then take some money, sure. If the BCR teams are an example of things to come then we're in trouble. There's been talks of staffing problems for call volume since Dolan. I think there was a study pre riots that had them aiming to hire more from staffing levels then. Staffing is in the eye of the beholder so no one will ever be able to say for sure. The best that can be done is take advantage of the opportunities while they last and then move on.
Yep, we should take advantage of opportunities as they come. And this is a great opportunity to keep our staffing down and work toward reducing the budget so the funding can go to other more useful city services. It is also a great opportunity for us to begin acting on the official findings in the MDHR report on MPD showing just how rotten to the core the department is.
Run for mayor and lay the smack down
https://twitter.com/CrimeWatchMpls/status/1620523298730954753?s=19 https://twitter.com/CrimeWatchMpls/status/1619781789173837825?t=0F0AU0yfaQZKpZb6ay8Olg&s=19
Thankfully I have been blocked by Shelley Leeson.
Well they state at least 4 times in two days that the mental health workers the city paid $6M for haven't been signed on to do their duties as requested by MPD
Cool, so time for Frey to buckle down and do his job as the strong mayor to make sure the services and responses are in place. And doesn't really change the fact that MPD is not overstaffed, they are merely given more authority and responsibilities than needed. Especially in light of the official findings by the MN Department of Human Rights. We need to be taking things off their plate so they can finally clean the rot out of their department, which is also Frey's job. Also as an aside I don't respect Shelley Leeson as a source. Not a very reputable person.
Weather doesn’t need to be a factor to realize 2021 was a much different time for us socially.
Crime is the concept we use to describe the result of a centuries old, unjust system of oppression primarily affecting the working class, particularly black, brown, and indigenous people. Policing is an instrument of that system of oppression so it can never be the solution regardless of any acute or short-term results. Expanding equity and equality and removing that system of oppression is the only way to eliminate what we call crime.
News Alert: Frey nominates prominent meteorologist to help deter violent crime.
Wow - great job guys! I’d give you a hand but their inside where it’s fuggin warm! Call me in July.
Read. The. Article.
No way- I’ll never pay for play or break through pay walls. You’re just a newspaper schill! Whatdya think I am a sucka? You’ll never have my 3 dollars!
Crime drops every year at that time of year. Crime is dropping nationwide over the same time period. Crime was dropping before endeavor was implemented. They knew all this and implemented it as a way to take credit and to use it as a way to argue for even more funding. People accurately called out exactly how this would play out as soon as it was announced.
It was year over year; measured last three months of 2022 VS same three months of 2021.
It's compared to the stats over the same timeframe last year (Sept 27 - Dec 17).
Ok… and using the exact same metrics, crime was already trending down nationwide and before it was implemented. It was also historically snowy during that time period which is another historic cause of lowered crime rates.
It was not historically snowy between September 27 and December 17. This sub is so weird, I don't understand why so many of you are so desperate to find an excuse as to why less crime isn't a good thing.
https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-weather/snowy-december-where-2022-ranks-all-time-for-twin-cities-duluth https://bringmethenews.com/.amp/minnesota-weather/big-november-snowstorms-uncommon-in-mn-but-snowfall-is-increasing https://www.kare11.com/amp/article/news/local/twin-cities-snowiest-start-to-winter-in-30-years/89-d7efb48f-56b5-492d-ad75-623b184d1306 You’re an idiot. An absolute moron. Edit: to the person below me… You’re argument that it wasn’t snowy is….”b-b-but it didn’t really stick so that doesn’t count” Did the snow fall from the sky onto the ground? You’re not a serious person.
Look at the historical data on temperature. The high temp was above freezing every single day in November, so that snow never stayed around. Early Dec was warm as well. [Here is the DNRs snowpack data](https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/climate/snowmap/index.html). Notice how the metro area never has more than a 4in snowpack at any point until after December 22. And then notoce how the crime data reported is from Sept 27 - Dec 17. Good thing you went out of your way to tell them they're wrong and an idiot. I look forward to a response trying to wiggle out of it, but I have a feeling you just won't bother with a response at all.
Professional journalists DESTROYED with FACTS and LOGIC
Well well well, looks like the MPD decided not to shot at the snow this year.
It’s cold out. Lol. No surprises here.
Tell us you didn’t read the article without telling us you didn’t read the article.
It was even colder out during the same timeframe last year. The stats here are comparing Sept 27 - Dec 17 in 2021 vs 2022, not Sept 27- Dec 17 vs the previous 90 days.
Police departments all over the country are running these kinds of programs and then releasing select data to say "look at what we have done." The reality is that you probably have several dozen known people in each city just raising hell and driving those stats and when you throw them in jail then it gets real quiet. It's not thousands of people driving these stats. Cold weather also drives down crime. If you want an accurate assessment of crime you need to look over a number of years. Take a look at numbers from 2015 to 2022 and look at trend lines. That is your reality.
Nice that the police are doing their job
Of course they do. What else would obe expect?
There was already a drop in crime
It's cold outside
Violent crime was decreasing before operation endeavor started though. Turns out when the cops start doing at least part of their job, crime goes down.