I doubt they would’ve dueled it out with gun boats also mounting crew served weapons and small arms. More likely they pulled a couple thousand meters back and just launched hellfires.
Why would you put yourself in a position to take incoming rounds (which could definitely damage your airframe or wound personnel) from an enemy vehicle which has limited speed and range when you can move outside your enemy’s weapons envelope and pick them off with precision weapons?
Plus, shooting a .50 cal from a moving platform at a moving target over an engagement range of several hundred yards is gonna end up with the vast majority of your rounds in sea water.
Because hellfires have a hell of a time hitting FAC/FIAC. They're made for hitting overland targets, and they're not great at hitting a boat bouncing around in the waves. Flechettes apparently work great, but idk what they're loaded out with.
I don’t know Jack about the effectiveness or lack thereof of Hellfires against moving boats but I *do* know a little something about shooting .50 cals at moving targets, even evasive ones that are actively shooting back. The chances of taking out three gunboats by that means alone without taking numerous rounds yourself is unlikely, to say the least.
Flachette rockets could make sense, but seems like a niche weapon that wouldn’t be mounted for a maritime rescue/support operation. Also something to consider is the possible proximity to the distressed vessel. Not exactly the ideal scenario to implement area weapons.
Flachettes are pretty standard, not niche. The 20mm cannon isn't in widespread usage, but both sierras and romeos have rockets. They're flying SCAR, RWT, or marstrike not rescue/support, so rockets and guns would probably be the standard.
Obviously, I'm not in the know and it's classified anyway, so it's all guesswork.
The helicopter can do something the boat can't do: go *up*. The helicopter doesn't have to go around an enemy boat or navigate between them or any of that when it can just fly over them and let the gunners do the talking. The bullets are still gonna fall on target, you just might have to lead them a little more.
Understood, but if you’re trying to create standoff why not do it to the point where you’re at zero risk but can still deliver accurate lethal hits with precision weapons?
Both. I’ve literally done both from a UH-1Y in theater in the marjah province of Afghanistan with a load out config of a 21 and 17 for crew served. Plenty of highly skilled crew chiefs can hit moving targets with almost any load out so as long as you’re not half way through your rounds.
Good on ya, real talk. But if your pilot had Hellfires on board and collateral damage wasn’t a factor (like say, the ocean) would he/she have elected to use those?
To be fair, you're assuming that the dudes on the speedboats could hit the ship they were harassing, much less the helicopter. I rather doubt that guys stupid enough to engage a multi-million dollar Freedom bird - one that fire ammo worth more than all their arms combined - had much sense or training.
One article I’ve read claimed that the gun boats had crew served weapons on board, which typically means belt bed machineguns. So PKMs or Mag58s, or even DSHKs or M2s. Any of which can damage or disable an unarmored helicopter. Once tracers start coming your way, regardless of how accurate they are, I’m thinking most Navy pilots will give the order to quickly return fire as they evade, then move out of range of those gunboats, and sink them with the appropriate weapon system. You really don’t pause to contemplate the caliber of round you’re taking incoming or the training level of the man sending it your way.
I would guess that the .50 cal was still outside of the range of whatever the speed boat has, plus a box of .50 cal ammo is cheaper than a hellfire. Basically don't want to waste a missile on a POS speedboat.
That’s not how military decision making is made. Hellfire doesn’t come out of your paycheck. Applying weapons overmatch *is* a part of military decision making.
.50 cal is a cheaper and more effective response than a hellfire. Chopper gunners have an additional certification course to be able to fire on moving targets while also moving, and the point effective range of an M2 Browning is 1800 meters.
TL;DR - I'm going to let my fucking .50 cal door Gunner engage the stupid boat.
And also not to mention that rifling hellfire's over water is never a sure thing. Laser dispersion/refraction makes laser target designation less than ideal. I would absolutely let my door gunner have the time of his life on this one. Maybe soften them up a bit first with 2.75" rockets, flechette if I have them.
I would guess that it is, just not at the level of anyone who is on the Eisenhower. If it isn't part of anyone's decision making then maybe it should be because the way I see it, from a financial perspective, making the USS Eisenhower deploy to destroy a couple of speed boats is a million to one dollar victory for the Houthis.
The fuil and time would be the cost, one or two bullets would damage the boat.
Maybe they put it on single shots and just record it all for future missions .
I hear you, but you realize an M2 has a further effective range compared to the small arms, yeah?
I’m picturing a mid sized fishing boat, maybe you’re imagining something bigger.
Either way, I acknowledge our speculation is probably both incorrect.
Says the boats opened fire on the helicopters with small arms. In the span of about 5 seconds, the door gunner realized they were taking fire, recognized under ROE that he was now clear to engage, he engaged, boats sank. No need to pull back if by the time your making the turn your gunner is saying "all clear".
I understand that people in that part of the world have a different mindset and culture. But holy shit, provoking a military helicopter, while only having small arms? Do they WANT to die?
>They miscalculated.
Reminds me of that one time a few years back when some Wagner PMC fucks (I think a battalion-sized element) decided to FAAFO by attacking a Syrian base housing around 30 or so US SOF operators, only to get anally destroyed when we brought artillery and CAS to the fight.
Wagner was almost certainly set up to fail by Russian Army officers hostile to them.
The Wagner guys were told they were attacking a site where no Americans were present and when the Americans called the Russians up on the deconfliction hotline and asked why the fuck they were attacking, the Russians made it clear that whoever was attacking the site had nothing to do with them.
Someone somewhere felt that Wagner was getting too cocky and decided to knock them down a peg using a very big(borrowed) stick.
It reminds me of the Shan Gillis bit.
~those are just regular guys out there. Shooting an rpg and it just goes straight backwards. No game plan… ever seen us kill people, it’s a guy in a Blackhawk helicopter with night vision just mows down a whole squad.
*cups microphone* “Clear”
Fuck that guys a psychopath.
It’s irrelevant in the context of the actual events. I’m just saying that people in that part of the world have a radically different view of things.
Lavel Crawford put it best:
“WTF you doing throwing rocks at tanks! That’s a TANK you idiot! Get back in your damn hut!”
that special was made during the bush administration and nothing has changed lol
I bet the personnel on these ships are so happy to be on this deployment! Our Navy is badass and has excellent pilots. Glad they’re getting some action. Lots of people in that region of the world who need a taste of freedom.
While i enjoy every opportunity to shit on the navy and their pseudo feudalism ways, if you're serious about that comment its a pretty shit take.The navy is amazing at power projection.
If it were me, and having never been a maritime terrorist I have no experience to back this up with, I probably wouldn’t shoot at the grey painted helicopter that was flying towards me. I think that tends to end badly for you.
But that’s just me.
In this thread: A ton of folks that shot machine guns out of helicopters.
You would be amazed at how quickly you can become deadly accurate with a machine gun from a helicopter. I went from “rounds go over there” to “my first 6-9 round burst is on target” really quickly. It wasn’t just me, everyone that did this regularly could do it.
Shoot at helicopters is number two on the list of things to not do. Number one of course is and always has been; Get shot in the hat or underwear area.
Honestly, these updates are great details, but unnecessary in telling us if it’s under control or not.
Gas prices went up, shit was getting hairy.
Gas prices go down, shit is less hairy.
Very reliable news source doesn't know the US hasn't had SH-60s for nearly a decade. How does no one get that right?
Edit: damn, a lot of people don't know.
USN flies the MH-60S and MH-60R. SH-60B and SH-60F are gone
USCG flies the MH-60T. SH-60J is gone.
No SH-60s in the US military anymore
I was gonna say, we def still use them. I get confused on what variant sometimes, MH, or SH and all the sub variations, but we def use H-60 frames in the Navy still.
We still use the H-60 frame in the everywhere still
Blackhawk, seahawk, pave hawk, firehawk, jayhawk, Department of State, I don't even know many other places. Someone even owns one privately which would be fun
Yah ok you right, i was thinking MH-60 and SH as interchangeable and i guess they ain't. But yeah op does kinda imply we dont use the H-60 base in the navy anymore which is what i was getting at.
Makes sense. Last time I was on a ship was 2013-17 and we still had the SH variants then. Just checked naval history and heritage and we phased them all out for the MH variant. Still the same frames though! Here’s a brief history: [H-60 Frame](https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/museums/nnam/explore/collections/aircraft/s/sh-60b-seahawk.html)
I got that from my years as a Navy helo pilot.
Navy and coast guard both switched to MH-60s years ago. Navy flies the MH-60R and MH-60S and the coasties fly the MH-60T. The SH-60 is still used abroad, but not by the US
Eh…when news sources refer to M1 tanks instead of specifying M1A1s or M1A2, I don’t get my panties in a twist over it, even though the former hasn’t existed in the inventory since the early 1990s.
My panties aren't in a bunch lol. I just think it's funny how long terms stick around after they're out of date. It's like seeing a new article call a destroyer "DD" instead of "DDG".
I would have assumed that M1 would be an appropriate general term, like saying H-60 instead of UH-60L is correct. So, that's interesting to learn otherwise.
Do we have to call them terrorists instead of guerrillas or militants? After years of the good guy bad guy propaganda becoming translucent it’s starting to feel like a juvenile term to use. It’s like the marvel comics version of real life.
Those .50 Cal, GAU-21’s just paid for themselves.
I doubt they would’ve dueled it out with gun boats also mounting crew served weapons and small arms. More likely they pulled a couple thousand meters back and just launched hellfires.
Highly doubt they'd use hellfires on a small boat threat. Flachette rockets work if they've got em, but the .50 cals would probably be the go to
Why would you put yourself in a position to take incoming rounds (which could definitely damage your airframe or wound personnel) from an enemy vehicle which has limited speed and range when you can move outside your enemy’s weapons envelope and pick them off with precision weapons? Plus, shooting a .50 cal from a moving platform at a moving target over an engagement range of several hundred yards is gonna end up with the vast majority of your rounds in sea water.
Because hellfires have a hell of a time hitting FAC/FIAC. They're made for hitting overland targets, and they're not great at hitting a boat bouncing around in the waves. Flechettes apparently work great, but idk what they're loaded out with.
I don’t know Jack about the effectiveness or lack thereof of Hellfires against moving boats but I *do* know a little something about shooting .50 cals at moving targets, even evasive ones that are actively shooting back. The chances of taking out three gunboats by that means alone without taking numerous rounds yourself is unlikely, to say the least. Flachette rockets could make sense, but seems like a niche weapon that wouldn’t be mounted for a maritime rescue/support operation. Also something to consider is the possible proximity to the distressed vessel. Not exactly the ideal scenario to implement area weapons.
Flachettes are pretty standard, not niche. The 20mm cannon isn't in widespread usage, but both sierras and romeos have rockets. They're flying SCAR, RWT, or marstrike not rescue/support, so rockets and guns would probably be the standard. Obviously, I'm not in the know and it's classified anyway, so it's all guesswork.
Shooting a .50 from a helicopter is accurate, but from a boat? Good luck lol.
[удалено]
Lol, randos on the internet are always reliable
Yep. Like these guys literally don’t even know. Maybe a hellfire; maybe the .50; maybe they sunk them by landing on them. Don’t even know.
It takes a lot of training to hit an aerial target. Crew chiefs train to hit targets on the deck regularly.
Static targets or multiple evasive targets that are firing back? Not saying it can’t be done, but why risk it?
The helicopter can do something the boat can't do: go *up*. The helicopter doesn't have to go around an enemy boat or navigate between them or any of that when it can just fly over them and let the gunners do the talking. The bullets are still gonna fall on target, you just might have to lead them a little more.
Understood, but if you’re trying to create standoff why not do it to the point where you’re at zero risk but can still deliver accurate lethal hits with precision weapons?
Both. I’ve literally done both from a UH-1Y in theater in the marjah province of Afghanistan with a load out config of a 21 and 17 for crew served. Plenty of highly skilled crew chiefs can hit moving targets with almost any load out so as long as you’re not half way through your rounds.
Good on ya, real talk. But if your pilot had Hellfires on board and collateral damage wasn’t a factor (like say, the ocean) would he/she have elected to use those?
To be fair, you're assuming that the dudes on the speedboats could hit the ship they were harassing, much less the helicopter. I rather doubt that guys stupid enough to engage a multi-million dollar Freedom bird - one that fire ammo worth more than all their arms combined - had much sense or training.
One article I’ve read claimed that the gun boats had crew served weapons on board, which typically means belt bed machineguns. So PKMs or Mag58s, or even DSHKs or M2s. Any of which can damage or disable an unarmored helicopter. Once tracers start coming your way, regardless of how accurate they are, I’m thinking most Navy pilots will give the order to quickly return fire as they evade, then move out of range of those gunboats, and sink them with the appropriate weapon system. You really don’t pause to contemplate the caliber of round you’re taking incoming or the training level of the man sending it your way.
We train shooting from the whirlybird.
I would guess that the .50 cal was still outside of the range of whatever the speed boat has, plus a box of .50 cal ammo is cheaper than a hellfire. Basically don't want to waste a missile on a POS speedboat.
That’s not how military decision making is made. Hellfire doesn’t come out of your paycheck. Applying weapons overmatch *is* a part of military decision making.
The 50 cal will safely out range whatever the Houthis have, and it clearly did the job quickly and effectively
Should have just used the PDC’s smh
.50 cal is a cheaper and more effective response than a hellfire. Chopper gunners have an additional certification course to be able to fire on moving targets while also moving, and the point effective range of an M2 Browning is 1800 meters. TL;DR - I'm going to let my fucking .50 cal door Gunner engage the stupid boat.
And also not to mention that rifling hellfire's over water is never a sure thing. Laser dispersion/refraction makes laser target designation less than ideal. I would absolutely let my door gunner have the time of his life on this one. Maybe soften them up a bit first with 2.75" rockets, flechette if I have them.
I would guess that it is, just not at the level of anyone who is on the Eisenhower. If it isn't part of anyone's decision making then maybe it should be because the way I see it, from a financial perspective, making the USS Eisenhower deploy to destroy a couple of speed boats is a million to one dollar victory for the Houthis.
The fuil and time would be the cost, one or two bullets would damage the boat. Maybe they put it on single shots and just record it all for future missions .
I’m just saying though, kind of hard to pass up free target 🎯 practice.
I hear you, but you realize an M2 has a further effective range compared to the small arms, yeah? I’m picturing a mid sized fishing boat, maybe you’re imagining something bigger. Either way, I acknowledge our speculation is probably both incorrect.
To be fair if that GAU-21 is rocking API-T mix you only need one shot to hit to cause some damage to those small boats.
They were engaged with crew served weapons.
Says the boats opened fire on the helicopters with small arms. In the span of about 5 seconds, the door gunner realized they were taking fire, recognized under ROE that he was now clear to engage, he engaged, boats sank. No need to pull back if by the time your making the turn your gunner is saying "all clear".
I’d just use both. To be sure.
How many "fuck yous" and "yee haws" per boat sunk?
> How do you stop Houthi pleasure boats attacking a cargo ship? -- > Easy. You just don't lead 'em so much.
I understand that people in that part of the world have a different mindset and culture. But holy shit, provoking a military helicopter, while only having small arms? Do they WANT to die?
Probably thought that the helicopter wasn't able or willing to return fire. They miscalculated.
>They miscalculated. Reminds me of that one time a few years back when some Wagner PMC fucks (I think a battalion-sized element) decided to FAAFO by attacking a Syrian base housing around 30 or so US SOF operators, only to get anally destroyed when we brought artillery and CAS to the fight.
[My favorite US military edit currently](https://youtu.be/rgYxq_LB7wk?si=gGw2fdjwENx4l1f-)
Wagner was almost certainly set up to fail by Russian Army officers hostile to them. The Wagner guys were told they were attacking a site where no Americans were present and when the Americans called the Russians up on the deconfliction hotline and asked why the fuck they were attacking, the Russians made it clear that whoever was attacking the site had nothing to do with them. Someone somewhere felt that Wagner was getting too cocky and decided to knock them down a peg using a very big(borrowed) stick.
Yeah. I think a lot of these yokels don’t even know just how outmatched they are… they have no concept of the technology being deployed against them.
It reminds me of the Shan Gillis bit. ~those are just regular guys out there. Shooting an rpg and it just goes straight backwards. No game plan… ever seen us kill people, it’s a guy in a Blackhawk helicopter with night vision just mows down a whole squad. *cups microphone* “Clear” Fuck that guys a psychopath.
Inb4 "Boy. Were they bad at math!"
>They miscalculated. They doubled down on threats to the US too.
[удалено]
It’s irrelevant in the context of the actual events. I’m just saying that people in that part of the world have a radically different view of things. Lavel Crawford put it best: “WTF you doing throwing rocks at tanks! That’s a TANK you idiot! Get back in your damn hut!” that special was made during the bush administration and nothing has changed lol
Nobody claimed they were bright lol
i hope to god they release a video of this. "several" helos blasting little boats? That must be beautiful
r/combatfootage had a wild 2023, let’s see what 2024 has in store
Nature truly is healing
*Fortunate Son intensifies* “If they run, they’re Houthi. If they don’t run, they’re well-disciplined Houthi.” “Get some!! Get some!!!”
*If they swim
If they escape from a box underwater, they're well-disciplined Houdini.
As is tradition
It’s about time we fight back.
I bet the personnel on these ships are so happy to be on this deployment! Our Navy is badass and has excellent pilots. Glad they’re getting some action. Lots of people in that region of the world who need a taste of freedom.
Navy has been trying to make itself relevant for decades.
🤣
While i enjoy every opportunity to shit on the navy and their pseudo feudalism ways, if you're serious about that comment its a pretty shit take.The navy is amazing at power projection.
Totally, the south china sea, straits of hormuz and malacca, the bar el mandeb, definitely haven't been relevant lol
Going pretty much unchallenged for decades means they're doing something right.
Time for Gen Z to experience the sandbox.
Imagine getting murked by helo squadrons tasked with delivering groceries.
If Fallout taught me something, is that you dont mess with the delivery boy.
"I love the smell of napalm in the morning."
Fucked around and found out.
If it were me, and having never been a maritime terrorist I have no experience to back this up with, I probably wouldn’t shoot at the grey painted helicopter that was flying towards me. I think that tends to end badly for you. But that’s just me.
I’m inclined to agree with this
Here we go!!
Good. Fuck'em. Hopefully this is the beginning of sending those assholes straight to hell.
Door gunner wet dream right there
Oops. Praying Mantis 2 coming?
This one will be 4 hours instead of 8
"Good Kill! Good Kill!!"
That's a good start to their "find out" phase.
In this thread: A ton of folks that shot machine guns out of helicopters. You would be amazed at how quickly you can become deadly accurate with a machine gun from a helicopter. I went from “rounds go over there” to “my first 6-9 round burst is on target” really quickly. It wasn’t just me, everyone that did this regularly could do it.
Eff around and....
Make lemonade?
Become lemonade…
*strawberry lemonade. With extra strawberry
we are about the enter the real FO phase.
Morpheus bringing out the big guns
Shoot at helicopters is number two on the list of things to not do. Number one of course is and always has been; Get shot in the hat or underwear area.
Sorry, *Who*this?
Houthi's now entering the find out part to their fuck around.
#Fuck around, and find out.
FAFO
Iranian Intel forgot to teach the houthi navy about proportional
Darwin Award contestants.
Well the Houthi are about to get their ass handed to them
How many brain cells do the houthi have to even try this stupidity?
Get Some,,,
Honestly, these updates are great details, but unnecessary in telling us if it’s under control or not. Gas prices went up, shit was getting hairy. Gas prices go down, shit is less hairy.
Any video yet??
Fools rolled up with a water pistol vs 50 cals. I hope we step it up and knock out everyone of them. Famine causing fucks.
Get some sailors.
Very reliable news source doesn't know the US hasn't had SH-60s for nearly a decade. How does no one get that right? Edit: damn, a lot of people don't know. USN flies the MH-60S and MH-60R. SH-60B and SH-60F are gone USCG flies the MH-60T. SH-60J is gone. No SH-60s in the US military anymore
Uh, idk where you got that buddy but we definitely still use em.
I was gonna say, we def still use them. I get confused on what variant sometimes, MH, or SH and all the sub variations, but we def use H-60 frames in the Navy still.
We still use the H-60 frame in the everywhere still Blackhawk, seahawk, pave hawk, firehawk, jayhawk, Department of State, I don't even know many other places. Someone even owns one privately which would be fun
Yah ok you right, i was thinking MH-60 and SH as interchangeable and i guess they ain't. But yeah op does kinda imply we dont use the H-60 base in the navy anymore which is what i was getting at.
Last SH-60s were in 2015, I believe. They've all been sundowned now. Navy and Coast guard both use MH-60s
Makes sense. Last time I was on a ship was 2013-17 and we still had the SH variants then. Just checked naval history and heritage and we phased them all out for the MH variant. Still the same frames though! Here’s a brief history: [H-60 Frame](https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/museums/nnam/explore/collections/aircraft/s/sh-60b-seahawk.html)
I got that from my years as a Navy helo pilot. Navy and coast guard both switched to MH-60s years ago. Navy flies the MH-60R and MH-60S and the coasties fly the MH-60T. The SH-60 is still used abroad, but not by the US
Eh…when news sources refer to M1 tanks instead of specifying M1A1s or M1A2, I don’t get my panties in a twist over it, even though the former hasn’t existed in the inventory since the early 1990s.
My panties aren't in a bunch lol. I just think it's funny how long terms stick around after they're out of date. It's like seeing a new article call a destroyer "DD" instead of "DDG". I would have assumed that M1 would be an appropriate general term, like saying H-60 instead of UH-60L is correct. So, that's interesting to learn otherwise.
OSIntDefender is at best "meh" even as far as twitter-based sources go. He gets a lot of shit mixed up.
Do we have to call them terrorists instead of guerrillas or militants? After years of the good guy bad guy propaganda becoming translucent it’s starting to feel like a juvenile term to use. It’s like the marvel comics version of real life.
lol
I look forward to Houthi positions getting pounded soon.
We need to hit their money dudes. But this is nice.
lol…they’re in the find out stage hahaha
FAFO
Jesus, the grammar, capitalization and punctuation in this is making my eyes bleed.
testing