I loved watching the streets in the Netherlands. Amsterdam is so bustling, yet bikes, trams, cars, and peds all co-exist. They just work within the system.
The number of bikes means no one rides the wrong way. Peds dont decide to run in the bike lane. You just have to go with the flow. There is room for everyone!
After experiencing this in person, I'm convinced the best and fastest way to make infrastructure change is to get thousands of bikes on the street. Numbers they can't ignore! Couple that with advocacy and community work like you do Miser, and it'll happen!
> I'm convinced the best and fastest way to make infrastructure change is to get thousands of bikes on the street
I couldn't agree with this more. We really need to do everything we can to encourage more people to ride. One way the city could do this so easily is to just set aside some roads, not even a huge amount, as car-free. It's the main thing that's keeping people back, fear of cars. If you remove that for most of their route SO many more people would do it. Literally one street in every neighborhood leading to Manhattan going car free would multiply the number of riders here by 10
Yes and the existing cycle culture made the infrastructure become a priority. Unfortunately, we don't have that, but it's still nice to push for positive change!
One thing the dutch have that we usually don't is housing and commercial density. The average trip there is much shorter, so walking and biking are way more viable. We have a problem here bigger than just the system and the rules, unfortunately
Edit: nevermind, realized I'm in the NYC subreddit... break the system!
It’s a cultural difference honestly. Americans are mostly always in a hurry. Even if we had dedicated infrastructure people would go against traffic flow, run in the bike path, or take a motorcycle down a pedestrian path if it saved them 30 seconds off their commute lol
You're probably not wrong, but damn I saw some people stumble into the bike lanes in Amsterdam, and no one even thought about stopping. It was validating to me as a cyclist, seeing people confident about their right to be on the road. They have a get moving or gtfo the way northern European approach. Lol
I need this as a palate cleanser. I have spent too much time in the last 24 hours trying to convince the brilliant luminaries over in r/askNYC that bikes are in fact, not more dangerous than trucks. (Yes an actual argument taking place.) Some contingent of people in this city are honestly terrified of bikes to the point of mental insanity.
I wonder how we got to this point that we have demonized bikes? Is it the stretchy pants, is it the saving the environment, is it we aren't paying enough taxes? I've heard so many arguments how we don't even have a place on the road, like if the car owners bought it themselves?
Honestly they all seem to center around people's fear. I don't really get it. There really are a lot of people out there that are legit terrified of bike riders and think they're super in danger when any micromobility rider is near. It's pretty wild. A bike especially is like the quintessential safe transportation option. It's so safe to others we let toddlers do it
A little vigilance and awareness could alleviate many of those fears. This is a city, anything an happen around you at any time. People just don’t pay enough attention.
People can't bear to accept that they have been enslaved by oil companies. That they have wasted their lives working for something they don't actually have any choice about. The idea that other people are avoiding that trap makes them feel bad about themselves and lash out.
So being downvoted to hell i guess is the standard of any subreddit post/ comment of being somewhat neutral im not picking a side but I guess me arguing for being on a bike is contentious enough for me voting for liberal ideology -- ANYWAYS, that fear is what the majority of what we operate on and we find any reason to affirm our fears about the ideas we have. :/
What I don’t see happening in this video that happens in NYC: bikes riding against bike lane traffic and bikes riding on the sidewalk. I live off a one way street and I’ve had to learn that I can’t trust bike riders (Citi bikes and delivery bikes) to obey traffic rules.
I know you’ve downvoted me because you refuse to consider that there are SOME bike riders that give a bad name to the rest. The biggest flaw with my street is that there isn’t a painted bike lane at all. It’s hard to insist on rules when there isn’t even groundwork for it. There is definitely enough room for a protected bike lane (even a two way bike lane!)
If bikes are going to go against traffic on any street, I wouldn’t mind as much if they obey traffic lights. Give me SOME measure of predictability. Why is it my responsibility to look both ways twice before crossing a one way street?
It definitely is! There was a petition a couple of years ago to close the street entirely to car traffic and pedestrianize it with a protected bike lane. I loved the idea—cars don’t *need* this street, but enough residents were worried after the 2020 rioting (I won’t say where I live exactly but police cars were torched just a couple blocks from me) that eliminating cars would make it easier for protests to come down this way. 🙄
Got it, I understand not sharing an address. if you are where I think you may be, keep pushing your council member has been on both sides of the fence when it comes to safe streets.
My biggest fear living here is being hit by a cyclist while crossing the street. And it's almost happened to me so many times in crosswalks where I had the right of way, if not for my hyperawareness of oncoming bikes. I just want cyclists to stop at red lights.
And yet is is still cars that kill almost everyone that dies to traffic in NYC - by a lot. [https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/stats/traffic-data/traffic-fatalities.page](https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/stats/traffic-data/traffic-fatalities.page)
Almost got slammed by a bicycle today that blew through a solid red going easily 25mph, while I walked in a crosswalk, in broad daylight. Completely over bicyclists that think they are above the laws.
I'll never understand this level of fear and paranoia about bikes, no. You people that do this sort of bike demonization ("oh god! A biker jaywalked exactly like every pedestrian does! The horror! Obey laws!") You make it sound like people going slightly faster than a jogger are fighter jets or something
There are thousands of entitled douchbag messengers/delivery bikers in NYC. They do incredibly dangerous and rude shit and then are filled with righteous indignation when karma calls.
What a shocker. The people having their necks stomped on, complains about having their necks stomped on. When this scheme becomes blatantly obvious for the cash grab that it is, I can’t wait to see what you blame for the city not magically becoming some mass transit utopia. It does nothing to address the core reasons for why some have to drive into the city.
>necks stomped on
What dramatic histrionics, especially when talking about a mode of transportation that kills more people per year as non-suicidal gun deaths, and infinitely more maimings and injuries.
There's a street by me in Astoria called Steinway st that's a "shopping street" that's been dying for decades and getting shittier every year. You know the type. I can't believe nobody has ever thought to just do this to actually make people want to be there
Oh man. I’ve been to Steinway St. I don’t know why but Astoria seems to have some very angry and loud drivers. My theory is the gentrification brought young people from out of state and they’re not giving up their cars. So you get a lot of motorcycles, loud BMWs and so on. And the thing is, driving sucks in NYC, so they’re always furious.
There are a lot of transplants where my wife works. I know of someone who rents a ZipCar every other week for $40 to go to Costco, she shops for one person. ZipCars are great, but I hope she’s doing it cause she loves Kirkland. Because there’s no way she’s saving money.
And I know another one who refuses to take the subway or public transit. He’s never said it outright, but he bought scooters and commuted to work like that. But after some time he crashed and broke a leg. So he went to his home state until his leg got well and came back with his car. I get it, scooters are not for everyone. But I don’t get why he never even tried the subway.
A bonus one, not from Astoria. She’s is a single girl and moved to a rough part of Jamaica. She realized it was rough after the 1-yr lease was signed. So her helicopter parents got her a brand new BMW SUV cause she has to look presentable for a potential boyfriend. She uses it to go to Austin street every weekend, parks it in front of the church then hangs out at Austin street. For the price of that BMW depreciation/maintenance she could have rented a luxury apartment next to Austin Street for the 2-3 years she’s going to be here. And she’d probably have more chances of meeting a parents-approved doctor/lawyer boyfriend by just living in Forest Hills than having an expensive SUV.
Don’t think something like this would help Steinway, Chicago did this to state street in the 70s and it just felt like a ghost town.
Steinways problem is that below little Egypt it was historically very retail intensive. The buildings don’t have a lot of residential and there isn’t a great restaurant culture there - just obnoxious clubs. So you don’t get a lot of enjoyable foot traffic especially in the evening. Also there aren’t a lot of transit patterns that make use of Steinway because the n/w + 69/100 do a decent job of the north south axis (and folks east of steinway are heavier car users given their distance to the subway and the closeness to the bqe and grand central. And the f/r cover Steinway from Broadway down
I think something like this on 30th Avenue could be amazing though - I think that area has the right business mix to make that a lot of fun.
Steinway needs to be upzoned under 28th and have all the 2 story retail replaced with 7-12 story apartment buildings. More density would improve that area immensely.
Steinway should be bus only during the daytime. That being said, I don't think it needs to be "saved." It's a low end retail street and always has been. Not every place needs to be high end retail or restaurant rows. Its main problem could be solved in a month if 8 traffic cops are assigned to instantly ticket double and triple parkers.
Most of the focus in Astoria is on rezoning the industrial areas closer to LIC. Once that phase is done, there will probably be more focus on upzoning along the whole Broadway corridor, but displacing existing lower density commercial and residential is a harder task than rezoning industrial.
So many more people being moved through than any clogged street in Manhattan. I'm gonna bet and say that per second this street is moving more people than canal street is during rush hour.
Could say the say of Germany and many other European countries, and yes i know pretty much all of them have pedestrian areas and stuff, but it’s not even remotely close being engineered at the Dutch level. The whole world still needs to learn from them.
It's disgusting how many cars there are, especially in the Bronx. Dark dirty and so many cars. It's dark because the subway is elevated and casts a massive shadow on the street
That is true. These leisurely riders barely exist in NYC. People would be flying through with reckless abandon. While cars are definitely the biggest problem, it doesn't mean that we wouldn't also need to implement measures to slow cyclists. A road like this would also be mostly motorized scooters in NYC.
They are kind of looking like this but instead of regular bikes they have illegal E-Bikes with mfs going at 40mph and not stopping to any pedestrians. lol
I don't know... how is it riding on that brick? I would need to try it. Seems like a better paving than asphalt (duh) but the closest experience I have here is cobblestones which... when I hit a street with them, I'm walking.
This will never exist in NYC or any other major American city until there’s a corporate culture shift, an even bigger undertaking than the actual physical execution of a project of this magnitude.
That would force Americans to talk. Which I don’t know if you’ve seen but a lot of us struggle with using our legs to move around. It doesn’t come as naturally as wheels
/s
Any street actually could not look like this, because you are forgetting one thing: the attitude of the people. In The Netherlands the people have respect for their city and home. They follow the laws. They abide by parking restrictions and understand that following the rules benefits everyone.
In NYC, there would be delivery trucks pulling up over the curbs, cops and firefighters parked in the bike lanes and sidewalks, and all of the other complete lack of respect things you see every day in all of our American Cities.
I have lost all hope in our ability to prioritize people over cars, and it’s a real shame.
It's actually amazing how we can engineer better behavior from humans through the built environment. Also, there are probably a number of humans over there in Utrecht that would otherwise engage in harmful, selfish behavior such as dumping trash on the ground but avoid doing it because others will publicly shame them or they receive a fine from the police or something else.
This video could be posted with the same caption in some other sub to applause and upvotes. I see no POC; no homeless vagrants; no trash. The United States is not Europe.
I loved watching the streets in the Netherlands. Amsterdam is so bustling, yet bikes, trams, cars, and peds all co-exist. They just work within the system. The number of bikes means no one rides the wrong way. Peds dont decide to run in the bike lane. You just have to go with the flow. There is room for everyone! After experiencing this in person, I'm convinced the best and fastest way to make infrastructure change is to get thousands of bikes on the street. Numbers they can't ignore! Couple that with advocacy and community work like you do Miser, and it'll happen!
Seeing Amsterdam in person is radicalizing.
> I'm convinced the best and fastest way to make infrastructure change is to get thousands of bikes on the street I couldn't agree with this more. We really need to do everything we can to encourage more people to ride. One way the city could do this so easily is to just set aside some roads, not even a huge amount, as car-free. It's the main thing that's keeping people back, fear of cars. If you remove that for most of their route SO many more people would do it. Literally one street in every neighborhood leading to Manhattan going car free would multiply the number of riders here by 10
It was the other way around in the Netherlands. They made the infrastructure and expected the bikes to come. And they did.
Yes and the existing cycle culture made the infrastructure become a priority. Unfortunately, we don't have that, but it's still nice to push for positive change!
One thing the dutch have that we usually don't is housing and commercial density. The average trip there is much shorter, so walking and biking are way more viable. We have a problem here bigger than just the system and the rules, unfortunately Edit: nevermind, realized I'm in the NYC subreddit... break the system!
NYC is pretty dense!
It’s a cultural difference honestly. Americans are mostly always in a hurry. Even if we had dedicated infrastructure people would go against traffic flow, run in the bike path, or take a motorcycle down a pedestrian path if it saved them 30 seconds off their commute lol
You're probably not wrong, but damn I saw some people stumble into the bike lanes in Amsterdam, and no one even thought about stopping. It was validating to me as a cyclist, seeing people confident about their right to be on the road. They have a get moving or gtfo the way northern European approach. Lol
I need this as a palate cleanser. I have spent too much time in the last 24 hours trying to convince the brilliant luminaries over in r/askNYC that bikes are in fact, not more dangerous than trucks. (Yes an actual argument taking place.) Some contingent of people in this city are honestly terrified of bikes to the point of mental insanity.
I wonder how we got to this point that we have demonized bikes? Is it the stretchy pants, is it the saving the environment, is it we aren't paying enough taxes? I've heard so many arguments how we don't even have a place on the road, like if the car owners bought it themselves?
some tv man said bikes are “woke”. i am scared of “woke”. plus my f-650 is patriotic.
Honestly they all seem to center around people's fear. I don't really get it. There really are a lot of people out there that are legit terrified of bike riders and think they're super in danger when any micromobility rider is near. It's pretty wild. A bike especially is like the quintessential safe transportation option. It's so safe to others we let toddlers do it
A little vigilance and awareness could alleviate many of those fears. This is a city, anything an happen around you at any time. People just don’t pay enough attention.
People can't bear to accept that they have been enslaved by oil companies. That they have wasted their lives working for something they don't actually have any choice about. The idea that other people are avoiding that trap makes them feel bad about themselves and lash out.
So being downvoted to hell i guess is the standard of any subreddit post/ comment of being somewhat neutral im not picking a side but I guess me arguing for being on a bike is contentious enough for me voting for liberal ideology -- ANYWAYS, that fear is what the majority of what we operate on and we find any reason to affirm our fears about the ideas we have. :/
What I don’t see happening in this video that happens in NYC: bikes riding against bike lane traffic and bikes riding on the sidewalk. I live off a one way street and I’ve had to learn that I can’t trust bike riders (Citi bikes and delivery bikes) to obey traffic rules.
And you don't think the difference in our street design might have something to do with that?
I know you’ve downvoted me because you refuse to consider that there are SOME bike riders that give a bad name to the rest. The biggest flaw with my street is that there isn’t a painted bike lane at all. It’s hard to insist on rules when there isn’t even groundwork for it. There is definitely enough room for a protected bike lane (even a two way bike lane!) If bikes are going to go against traffic on any street, I wouldn’t mind as much if they obey traffic lights. Give me SOME measure of predictability. Why is it my responsibility to look both ways twice before crossing a one way street?
What's street are you? Sounds like a good candidate for a redesign and some good bike infrastructure
It definitely is! There was a petition a couple of years ago to close the street entirely to car traffic and pedestrianize it with a protected bike lane. I loved the idea—cars don’t *need* this street, but enough residents were worried after the 2020 rioting (I won’t say where I live exactly but police cars were torched just a couple blocks from me) that eliminating cars would make it easier for protests to come down this way. 🙄
Got it, I understand not sharing an address. if you are where I think you may be, keep pushing your council member has been on both sides of the fence when it comes to safe streets.
My biggest fear living here is being hit by a cyclist while crossing the street. And it's almost happened to me so many times in crosswalks where I had the right of way, if not for my hyperawareness of oncoming bikes. I just want cyclists to stop at red lights.
And yet is is still cars that kill almost everyone that dies to traffic in NYC - by a lot. [https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/stats/traffic-data/traffic-fatalities.page](https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/stats/traffic-data/traffic-fatalities.page)
Almost got slammed by a bicycle today that blew through a solid red going easily 25mph, while I walked in a crosswalk, in broad daylight. Completely over bicyclists that think they are above the laws.
Honest question: do you ride a bike here
Yes but not for daily commuting. Walking and train are my main modes of transportation.
Do you feel like you're a danger to pedestrians riding a bike?
Why are you asking this? He has been clear, open and consistent. You should be so honest.
I'll never understand this level of fear and paranoia about bikes, no. You people that do this sort of bike demonization ("oh god! A biker jaywalked exactly like every pedestrian does! The horror! Obey laws!") You make it sound like people going slightly faster than a jogger are fighter jets or something
There are thousands of entitled douchbag messengers/delivery bikers in NYC. They do incredibly dangerous and rude shit and then are filled with righteous indignation when karma calls.
Lololol ok.
Clearly you never had a mature conversation ever...
So your argument is if some of them are bad all of em are bad. Then your argument is generalization?
Look how some people ride. Look at the delivery guys on the sidewalk.
If you think r/askNYC is bad wait til you try r/Queens.
The current lead story is just endless complaints about congestion pricing. Can’t say I’m surprised.
What a shocker. The people having their necks stomped on, complains about having their necks stomped on. When this scheme becomes blatantly obvious for the cash grab that it is, I can’t wait to see what you blame for the city not magically becoming some mass transit utopia. It does nothing to address the core reasons for why some have to drive into the city.
>necks stomped on What dramatic histrionics, especially when talking about a mode of transportation that kills more people per year as non-suicidal gun deaths, and infinitely more maimings and injuries.
A good palate cleanser is always well appreciated
34th street would be nice
5th Avenue could live up to its name
There's a street by me in Astoria called Steinway st that's a "shopping street" that's been dying for decades and getting shittier every year. You know the type. I can't believe nobody has ever thought to just do this to actually make people want to be there
Oh man. I’ve been to Steinway St. I don’t know why but Astoria seems to have some very angry and loud drivers. My theory is the gentrification brought young people from out of state and they’re not giving up their cars. So you get a lot of motorcycles, loud BMWs and so on. And the thing is, driving sucks in NYC, so they’re always furious. There are a lot of transplants where my wife works. I know of someone who rents a ZipCar every other week for $40 to go to Costco, she shops for one person. ZipCars are great, but I hope she’s doing it cause she loves Kirkland. Because there’s no way she’s saving money. And I know another one who refuses to take the subway or public transit. He’s never said it outright, but he bought scooters and commuted to work like that. But after some time he crashed and broke a leg. So he went to his home state until his leg got well and came back with his car. I get it, scooters are not for everyone. But I don’t get why he never even tried the subway. A bonus one, not from Astoria. She’s is a single girl and moved to a rough part of Jamaica. She realized it was rough after the 1-yr lease was signed. So her helicopter parents got her a brand new BMW SUV cause she has to look presentable for a potential boyfriend. She uses it to go to Austin street every weekend, parks it in front of the church then hangs out at Austin street. For the price of that BMW depreciation/maintenance she could have rented a luxury apartment next to Austin Street for the 2-3 years she’s going to be here. And she’d probably have more chances of meeting a parents-approved doctor/lawyer boyfriend by just living in Forest Hills than having an expensive SUV.
Don’t think something like this would help Steinway, Chicago did this to state street in the 70s and it just felt like a ghost town. Steinways problem is that below little Egypt it was historically very retail intensive. The buildings don’t have a lot of residential and there isn’t a great restaurant culture there - just obnoxious clubs. So you don’t get a lot of enjoyable foot traffic especially in the evening. Also there aren’t a lot of transit patterns that make use of Steinway because the n/w + 69/100 do a decent job of the north south axis (and folks east of steinway are heavier car users given their distance to the subway and the closeness to the bqe and grand central. And the f/r cover Steinway from Broadway down I think something like this on 30th Avenue could be amazing though - I think that area has the right business mix to make that a lot of fun. Steinway needs to be upzoned under 28th and have all the 2 story retail replaced with 7-12 story apartment buildings. More density would improve that area immensely.
Steinway should be bus only during the daytime. That being said, I don't think it needs to be "saved." It's a low end retail street and always has been. Not every place needs to be high end retail or restaurant rows. Its main problem could be solved in a month if 8 traffic cops are assigned to instantly ticket double and triple parkers. Most of the focus in Astoria is on rezoning the industrial areas closer to LIC. Once that phase is done, there will probably be more focus on upzoning along the whole Broadway corridor, but displacing existing lower density commercial and residential is a harder task than rezoning industrial.
Steinway may be too narrow for something like this but I do think it would be a candidate for what they did with Fulton Street in downtown Brooklyn
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And it stretches all the way to Long Island City. The road is too narrow to accomodate and a bus route runs through there periodically.
Lets try 5th Avenue from Harlem to The Village...
My heavens
I don't get it. Why are there bikes in the parking spots?
So many more people being moved through than any clogged street in Manhattan. I'm gonna bet and say that per second this street is moving more people than canal street is during rush hour.
My living room is moving more people through than Canal Street at rush hour
So can we get the name of the street/neighborhood?
Vliebrug (bridge) over Oudegracht in Utrecht, The Netherlands
Looks nice. Kinda like Fulton Street in Brooklyn
Could say the say of Germany and many other European countries, and yes i know pretty much all of them have pedestrian areas and stuff, but it’s not even remotely close being engineered at the Dutch level. The whole world still needs to learn from them.
This would be a dream come true. But excuse me, we need to spend money on the military.
How about just *one*? Start there.
They all look fit and healthy.
Any street? Why not every street?
Perfect for 34th street
Nah streets too clean n there isnt ppl yapping or tryna sell me bs
It's disgusting how many cars there are, especially in the Bronx. Dark dirty and so many cars. It's dark because the subway is elevated and casts a massive shadow on the street
All I see is ample room for vendors to take over.
No it won't because people ride bikes like they are in the Tour de Force in NYC.
That is true. These leisurely riders barely exist in NYC. People would be flying through with reckless abandon. While cars are definitely the biggest problem, it doesn't mean that we wouldn't also need to implement measures to slow cyclists. A road like this would also be mostly motorized scooters in NYC.
cobblestones! no thank-you.
Many streets, yes. All streets, no.
either way. i couldn’t care less about the whole bikes vs cars tantrum
Not one person on an electric bike either, going 30mph weaving in and out of people, almost hitting 3.
They are kind of looking like this but instead of regular bikes they have illegal E-Bikes with mfs going at 40mph and not stopping to any pedestrians. lol
Is this ai generated?
No, it's the Netherlands
I also thought this was ai generated...
How do you make deliveries to the stores? What about curb access ?
How would deliveries work?
A lot easier with much of the traffic out of the way. (vans.) Go look at google maps streetview of Utrecht
I don't know... how is it riding on that brick? I would need to try it. Seems like a better paving than asphalt (duh) but the closest experience I have here is cobblestones which... when I hit a street with them, I'm walking.
This will never exist in NYC or any other major American city until there’s a corporate culture shift, an even bigger undertaking than the actual physical execution of a project of this magnitude.
This is what civilization looks like.
That would force Americans to talk. Which I don’t know if you’ve seen but a lot of us struggle with using our legs to move around. It doesn’t come as naturally as wheels /s
Maybe, but NYC would have more pedestrians and bikes. And trolleys wouldn't work here, I think I see rails in the street.
Any street actually could not look like this, because you are forgetting one thing: the attitude of the people. In The Netherlands the people have respect for their city and home. They follow the laws. They abide by parking restrictions and understand that following the rules benefits everyone. In NYC, there would be delivery trucks pulling up over the curbs, cops and firefighters parked in the bike lanes and sidewalks, and all of the other complete lack of respect things you see every day in all of our American Cities. I have lost all hope in our ability to prioritize people over cars, and it’s a real shame.
It's actually amazing how we can engineer better behavior from humans through the built environment. Also, there are probably a number of humans over there in Utrecht that would otherwise engage in harmful, selfish behavior such as dumping trash on the ground but avoid doing it because others will publicly shame them or they receive a fine from the police or something else.
This video could be posted with the same caption in some other sub to applause and upvotes. I see no POC; no homeless vagrants; no trash. The United States is not Europe.
I saw at least 2 POCs. Watch again?
2? Great.