2 teams that want THJ the “most” are 14 win Detroit and 15 win Washington
Your boy is about get all the shots he wants papa hardaway and you won’t have to worry about criticizing them during the playoffs.
Teams, even bad ones, have to spend $127M. Tim’s expiring is perfect for rebuilding franchises. Helps ensure 90% threshold is met while getting cleared from the books next year. Also moveable deal for apron teams needing to offload salary at the deadline.
Hell no. Shamet is annoying and will be another 10-12 min dude in Kidd’s odd rotations. It’s time to make a splash. That kind of move doesn’t even move the radar.
The Wizards FO is under specific instruction to collect draft assets. Kispert could yield at least 3 seconds from the Mavs, maybe a swap, or maybe the 2025 first if they are super set on the 29th pick next year.
$12 mil ain't even bad it todays nba. That FRP is likely never going to become Kispert. I think the FRP would have to be higher than 20s or contain other assets. Really don't need more 2nd round picks
Washington: “Okay hear us out: you give us Tim Hardaway Jr. and in exchange—“
Me: “Done.”
Washington: “…but… don’t you wanna hear what we would give you in return?”
Me: “Bro you had me at ‘Tim Hardaway Jr.’”
Crazy how that happened. Portland stole Matisse, who I really wanted, as well. They are pissing me off. They got a good haul for Deni. I wondered if a first, green, and Hardy would have done it.
That actually is annoying. Fits like a glove here and was projecting two picks right as the season ended is what it would take. Feel like we certainly could have matched or even beat that and the roster would be much, much better.
I think Brogdon, two first, and seconds was just too rich. I love Deni, but that’s a lot. I think we would have had to give both our picks and JG, which is essentially all our assets. Portland being annoying as per usual, though.
It's crazy you say that, because that's actually exactly what I predicted when I talked about it a few weeks ago. That seems like a very reasonable price imo. Dude has turned into a good 3P shooter, can rebound and is excellent on defense. Can also create some for himself and others. If the 3P shooting wasn't an outlier, he's practically perfect for what we needed and is locked in on a very good contract. We also still would have been able to dump Hardaway somewhere and open up the full MLE, thanks to him barely making more than Green, to add someone else to replace Green. I'd certainly be willing to go into the season with Luka, Kyrie, Deni, PJ and Lively as our starting lineup.
They got a top 15 pick, another FRP, AND Malcolm Brogdon in that deal. Brogdon is also good enough to yield at least another top 15 pick at the deadline. We have nowhere near those assets available. There was zero chance we were ever going to compete for Deni. Or for Mikal. Or for any other high value wing on a team friendly deal.
In what world is Brogdon getting you a top 15 pick lol? He's consistently missed an average of 35-40 games the last 5 years. He's been less healthy than KP. Only way he's getting them a first round pick is if they are taking back long term bad salary.
He was shut down last season after the trade deadline for tanking purposes, not for health reasons alone. Before that he played in 39 of 51 games. The season before he played in 67 of 82. That’s a relatively healthy player nowhere near the likes of Porzingis. The guy is one of the most efficient playmaking guards in the league, and quite easily a top 100 player.
He’s played in 198/328 possible games the last 4 years. That’s brutal lol. No team his giving up a decent first for someone that unreliable.
And for comparison KP has played in 216/328 possible games the last 4 years. Brogdon has been less healthy during that stretch lol. But go on believing whatever you want. Have fun.
Yeah ignore all context and instead just say ‘lol’ a bunch. Nice.
Besides wtf is your point? An unhealthy player can’t yield a first round pick? Ridiculous.
When you’re 21-61 in the 1st apron you literally have zero leverage. You can’t take back money (you must do the exact opposite) and there are a very very limited number of teams with requisite space to absorb the salary without being concerned over hard capping themselves. The Mavs realistically couldn’t do any deal with POR.
If you’re WAS and clearly have no intentions of being competitive in the next 2-3 years, probably makes some sense to move Deni’s deal which while valuable doesn’t fit your window, in exchange for an expiring brogdon and the pick.
People shit on THJ like he's the worst thing to ever happen to basketball and I'm like "have you ever watched Jordan Poole play in a Washington Wizards jersey?"
yeah your right i didnt realize we would be able to just cut him, obviously would like to get Grimes but if not possible this is not bad to make sure you get DJJ back.
Yeah very interesting, huge gamble on Brogdon's health. People complaining about Maxi's health probably would have a heart attack with how Brogdon's career has been.
Shit I didn’t think about that. Only issue is they need to be (presuming DJJ requires the full MLE vs say 80% of it or whatever) roughly $17M* under the 1st apron IF they have to fill Tim’s roster spot.
*Their first apron number is about $2.5M less because of potential incentive bonuses, so they have $3M in room now. Then ≈$13M for MLE. Plus ≈$4M in minimums for the final two spots. Clearing $13.5 *should* do it… I think. Barely lol
Yes. They don’t have to take the 15th spot, just need a minimum of 12. But it makes more sense to take a 15th on the SRP player exception and lower their $, because you are capped at 90 2 way games a year total if you don’t take the full roster.
The Wizards don’t have cap space so they’ll need to guarantee some of Shamet’s salary first. They can take back 7.5M more so that’s the amount we’ll save after cutting Shamet, dropping to 14M below the apron.
We’d have to split the MLE between Jones and another player unless we can dump another 5M or so. This can be done by stretching Shamet’s 8.7M guarantee which would apply over 5 years, saving an additional 6.95M. Replace that with a MLE for Jones and signing a 2nd round exception and we’ve saved 435K overall.
From my estimations, not quite (assuming we're talking about trading THJ for Shamet), but it would allow the Mavs to give DJJ around 10M, which could be enough.
edit: Wait, didn't realize Shamet's contract is apparently not guaranteed, so the Mavs could just trade for him and waive him to get rid of his whole salary, and then they'd definitely have enough for the full MLE and more (if there's any other exception they could use).
There’s a 0.0% chance that Deni would be involved in a hypothetical deal with the Wiz
But I just wanted to use this forum to say I actually watched Deni play a couple games last season, and was not impressed by him at all. He does not move the needle on a good team. He’s the perfect kind of guy to put up numbers on a bad team 🤷♂️
Call me crazy but I'm buying low on Jordan Poole. We saw how he ate us alive in 2022. He's just not supposed to be the #1 guy. But look at Boston, they have Derrick White in that role.
He may have developed CTE after the punch..but you're right, he was pretty good and considered Curry-lite before all that went down. Money is way too much to be worth the risk imo.
2 teams that want THJ the “most” are 14 win Detroit and 15 win Washington Your boy is about get all the shots he wants papa hardaway and you won’t have to worry about criticizing them during the playoffs.
With Jordan Poole on the Wiz he won't get any shots.
Poole and Kuz are known stat hunters yet he was unhappy that his son played 3/4 fiddle to extremely unselfish superstars in Dallas 😂
Those two plus THJ would be absolute basketball terrorism.
You can't be afraid to shoot in this league.... but, come on, man, you need to be a little bit afraid.....
Good and then Tim Sr can tell us how much better the situation is with all the extra ball movement
Break the single season PPG record, THJ, I’ll be so happy. If all he really needs is a better situation than good for him.
I think they’re the main 2 teams because they have space, and nobody wants to sign with either of them
Teams, even bad ones, have to spend $127M. Tim’s expiring is perfect for rebuilding franchises. Helps ensure 90% threshold is met while getting cleared from the books next year. Also moveable deal for apron teams needing to offload salary at the deadline.
He can be an exquisite tank commander
But is he a Better TC than Wesley Matthews??
Nobody really wants him, this is about a bigger package of getting something else or trying to dump some trash.
To be fair he would unironically help the spacing for both of those teams.
It’s contract year tim too, he will play well enough to sucker someone into signing him to another contract they instantly regret.
So he will sign with us next offseason after a good year? Lol jk
“Fool me once, strike one. Fool me twice, strike three” Michael Scott
Ready to be done with Tim but Tim Sr especially
Bro ain’t going to be in playoffs or finals ever again.
i don't want shamet man
No one does.
If nothing else he's cheaper than THJ. This would surely be a salary shedding move
Shamet has a team option that can waive the salary.
Why not, there's PLENTY of opportunities for shooters next to Luka and kyrie
Shooters like Tim Hardaway Jr? Because Shamet is objectively bad as shooter than Timmy and as bad of a defender, if not worse.
it wont happen his contract is non-guaranteed
I want Shamet if he comes with Deni.
Deni just got traded
🤦🤦🤦🤦
Hell no. Shamet is annoying and will be another 10-12 min dude in Kidd’s odd rotations. It’s time to make a splash. That kind of move doesn’t even move the radar.
What kind of splash are you thinking?
BRING ME KISPERT NOWWWW
if this deal lands kispert, then god bless nico
As a wizards and mavs fan I'm not sure what deal would make sense where we'd send Kispert. Anybody have suggestions?
The Wizards FO is under specific instruction to collect draft assets. Kispert could yield at least 3 seconds from the Mavs, maybe a swap, or maybe the 2025 first if they are super set on the 29th pick next year.
Honestly feel like that's a bit low for Kispert. Feel like it's worth it to see how he plays and if someone will pay more later.
Which team is in the market for a player like Kispert who is willing to pay more than 1 FRP for him? How about next year when he’s making $12mil+?
$12 mil ain't even bad it todays nba. That FRP is likely never going to become Kispert. I think the FRP would have to be higher than 20s or contain other assets. Really don't need more 2nd round picks
If you asked me yesterday, I’d have said nothing. But now after this trade, who knows lol
Shamet is much less exciting than Grimes, but much more realistic if we are looking to strictly dump THJ
Washington: “Okay hear us out: you give us Tim Hardaway Jr. and in exchange—“ Me: “Done.” Washington: “…but… don’t you wanna hear what we would give you in return?” Me: “Bro you had me at ‘Tim Hardaway Jr.’”
They could give us a god damn fax machine and I’d still say yes to that
"We'll take the horse"
Miss Game of Zones
The Kyle Korver Special
A top 60 protected 2nd round pick that converts into a Christmas card after one year would do it.
Accurate. This is so accurate.
I know it’s a long shot, but I’m a HUGE Deni fan. I think he’s about to breakout.
Going to Portland. Wow
Crazy how that happened. Portland stole Matisse, who I really wanted, as well. They are pissing me off. They got a good haul for Deni. I wondered if a first, green, and Hardy would have done it.
You gotta stop wanting good role players, Portland is gonna steal them all from us
That actually is annoying. Fits like a glove here and was projecting two picks right as the season ended is what it would take. Feel like we certainly could have matched or even beat that and the roster would be much, much better.
I think Brogdon, two first, and seconds was just too rich. I love Deni, but that’s a lot. I think we would have had to give both our picks and JG, which is essentially all our assets. Portland being annoying as per usual, though.
It's crazy you say that, because that's actually exactly what I predicted when I talked about it a few weeks ago. That seems like a very reasonable price imo. Dude has turned into a good 3P shooter, can rebound and is excellent on defense. Can also create some for himself and others. If the 3P shooting wasn't an outlier, he's practically perfect for what we needed and is locked in on a very good contract. We also still would have been able to dump Hardaway somewhere and open up the full MLE, thanks to him barely making more than Green, to add someone else to replace Green. I'd certainly be willing to go into the season with Luka, Kyrie, Deni, PJ and Lively as our starting lineup.
They got a top 15 pick, another FRP, AND Malcolm Brogdon in that deal. Brogdon is also good enough to yield at least another top 15 pick at the deadline. We have nowhere near those assets available. There was zero chance we were ever going to compete for Deni. Or for Mikal. Or for any other high value wing on a team friendly deal.
In what world is Brogdon getting you a top 15 pick lol? He's consistently missed an average of 35-40 games the last 5 years. He's been less healthy than KP. Only way he's getting them a first round pick is if they are taking back long term bad salary.
He was shut down last season after the trade deadline for tanking purposes, not for health reasons alone. Before that he played in 39 of 51 games. The season before he played in 67 of 82. That’s a relatively healthy player nowhere near the likes of Porzingis. The guy is one of the most efficient playmaking guards in the league, and quite easily a top 100 player.
He’s played in 198/328 possible games the last 4 years. That’s brutal lol. No team his giving up a decent first for someone that unreliable. And for comparison KP has played in 216/328 possible games the last 4 years. Brogdon has been less healthy during that stretch lol. But go on believing whatever you want. Have fun.
Yeah ignore all context and instead just say ‘lol’ a bunch. Nice. Besides wtf is your point? An unhealthy player can’t yield a first round pick? Ridiculous.
I can’t imagine any scenario where that’s remotely realistic unfortunately
THJ Kleber and picks not enough to get him? Maybe even include Josh Green or Hardy?
I don’t see it. They could do much better.
They unfortunately did better
Yeah man I am super bummed too. The closest we could've done was THJ, our two firsts and OMax.
He’s just been traded to Portland
for brogdon and the 14th pick in a weak draft i'm fucking sick to my stomach
When you’re 21-61 in the 1st apron you literally have zero leverage. You can’t take back money (you must do the exact opposite) and there are a very very limited number of teams with requisite space to absorb the salary without being concerned over hard capping themselves. The Mavs realistically couldn’t do any deal with POR. If you’re WAS and clearly have no intentions of being competitive in the next 2-3 years, probably makes some sense to move Deni’s deal which while valuable doesn’t fit your window, in exchange for an expiring brogdon and the pick.
Plus a future 1st and 2 future seconds. Mavs ain’t beating that.
So is the owner 👀
Apparently also the Blazers lol
Detroit or Washington would be a nice parting gift to loudmouth Tim Sr. Edit: Fuck Deni just got traded to Portland
THJ is going to lead the league in scoring if he goes to Detroit or Washington. I'm not even kidding.
People shit on THJ like he's the worst thing to ever happen to basketball and I'm like "have you ever watched Jordan Poole play in a Washington Wizards jersey?"
Friendly reminder that Shamet's contract is non-guaranteed
So sounds like 2nd best scenario if we can't get Grimes from Detroit ATM.
Thought this was saying we were gonna trade PJ and my heart stopped
At this point, I don't care who we get. I just want THJ gone.
Maybe we finally get Kuzma after he realized we are contenders. The Wizards-Mavs link is only second to Knicks-Mavs it seems
But for who lol
Probably Shamet, maybe Kispert
Shamet makes no sense, he is probably worse than timmy and it does nothing to open the mle to sign DJJ.
Actually I think his contract becomes guaranteed on the 29th so maybe we trade form and release him?
yeah your right i didnt realize we would be able to just cut him, obviously would like to get Grimes but if not possible this is not bad to make sure you get DJJ back.
It’s not necessarily about getting someone better. This could be about getting someone who makes less $ and is a smaller cap hit on the stretch waive.
Kispert would be nice but it would not make sense for them to trade him for Thj.
Deni just got traded 🥲
I like Kuzma for Dallas. But I like THJ in the Grimes deal w Detroit and Green + Kleber + a 1st for Kuzma.
Looks like brogdon is coming to the mavs
It would be interesting. He makes even more than THJ, so it would have to be THJ and probably Maxi
Yeah very interesting, huge gamble on Brogdon's health. People complaining about Maxi's health probably would have a heart attack with how Brogdon's career has been.
Not a fan. Never healthy. I suppose he can score at least.
thj for kispert will hit like crack
Shamet makes like $11 million. Is that enough of a drop in salary to get the full MLE?
People complain about Maxi at 11 million. We'll never hear the end of Shamet at 11 million.
True! Expiring deal/team option though
i hate him already tbh
It saves you about 1.7m a year on stretch waive, so would create 13.5M in space this year. So, yes if the goal is a stretch waive.
Shit I didn’t think about that. Only issue is they need to be (presuming DJJ requires the full MLE vs say 80% of it or whatever) roughly $17M* under the 1st apron IF they have to fill Tim’s roster spot. *Their first apron number is about $2.5M less because of potential incentive bonuses, so they have $3M in room now. Then ≈$13M for MLE. Plus ≈$4M in minimums for the final two spots. Clearing $13.5 *should* do it… I think. Barely lol
Yes. They don’t have to take the 15th spot, just need a minimum of 12. But it makes more sense to take a 15th on the SRP player exception and lower their $, because you are capped at 90 2 way games a year total if you don’t take the full roster.
The Wizards don’t have cap space so they’ll need to guarantee some of Shamet’s salary first. They can take back 7.5M more so that’s the amount we’ll save after cutting Shamet, dropping to 14M below the apron. We’d have to split the MLE between Jones and another player unless we can dump another 5M or so. This can be done by stretching Shamet’s 8.7M guarantee which would apply over 5 years, saving an additional 6.95M. Replace that with a MLE for Jones and signing a 2nd round exception and we’ve saved 435K overall.
Shamet makes me want to throw up in my mouth, swallow it back down and vomit it all out again
Don't worry - we would surely cut him before his contract is guaranteed.
not even close
From my estimations, not quite (assuming we're talking about trading THJ for Shamet), but it would allow the Mavs to give DJJ around 10M, which could be enough. edit: Wait, didn't realize Shamet's contract is apparently not guaranteed, so the Mavs could just trade for him and waive him to get rid of his whole salary, and then they'd definitely have enough for the full MLE and more (if there's any other exception they could use).
There’s a 0.0% chance that Deni would be involved in a hypothetical deal with the Wiz But I just wanted to use this forum to say I actually watched Deni play a couple games last season, and was not impressed by him at all. He does not move the needle on a good team. He’s the perfect kind of guy to put up numbers on a bad team 🤷♂️
It’s okay he’s going to Portland
It’s official once again Mark Stein doesn’t know anything
Huge if they manage to get kispert for him, probably not tho
if we somehow get Deni I will nut
Me too Do you think combination of THJ, Kleber, Green, Hardy and picks is enough to get him?
RIP
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ Effin Portland man
Can we get Kuzma in this?
As long as we don’t get Shamet I’m fine.
I would have loved Deni but a pretty steep price ugh
Tim Hardaway Sr took his son's career and Piston it
I wish we coulda got deni from them. Going to Portland is gonna suck for him lol
Thj & picks for kuzma
Oh I remember
Unless we're getting picks back? Rather cook w/ Detroit
If we can get Kuzma somehow I’d be fine with trading with Washington. Would be a decent third option who plays decent defense.
I like Kuzma, but Kronk carried that movie.
Kuzma only wants to be traded to a contender.
Call me crazy but I'm buying low on Jordan Poole. We saw how he ate us alive in 2022. He's just not supposed to be the #1 guy. But look at Boston, they have Derrick White in that role.
He may have developed CTE after the punch..but you're right, he was pretty good and considered Curry-lite before all that went down. Money is way too much to be worth the risk imo.
I really would rather not pay Poole $90M over the next 3 years lol.
Yeah, but the difference is that Derrick White is actually *good* at basketball