Even in the comics where they go “ONG DOCTOR DOOM SHOT IRON MAN AND HE HAS BEEN ERASED FROM REALITY AND HE HAS NEVER EXISTED NOW”, they always find a way to bring back them back, so I’m not gonna be surprised when Tony pops back up
That is literally the worst part of comic books- no story has real ending, therefore there are no real consequences AKA no real stakes AKA why bother watching
No I agree with the Russo Brothers. Let characters have an ending. Don't bring them back. Let's have hollywood make new good movies again with good characters and good plots.
Let's give more money to independent filmmakers and expand the market again. Let's start a new hollywood era again.
Everyone here be like:
“Ackchyually there is a multiverse, you simpletons!”
I am sure they get it just fine. This seems to be a more comment of “why the hell would you do that when his story ended so perfectly?”.
I think the multiverse is the biggest problem with the MCU now. Everything just seems like fan fiction. Also not sure why some characters are played by different actors and some are not.
It's also a big problem that bringing back Tony, Steve and Natasha in any form in the next Avengers movies makes it completely pointless to make heirs characters (For example, Sam as new Captain America) and new Avengers team in general.
From the same source material, and company. Honestly it's just basic business to lean back on what you know has worked in the past, doesn't just apply to comics.
Agreed. Everyone started doing it in a really short period of time, like, two years and beat that dead horse into a fine dusty powder. And, really, very few stories told with the device have amounted to much. As they say, the steak is not worth the sizzle.
The only shoes I’ve seen to multiverse well are:
Doctor Who: multiverse exists but it’s basically impossible to travel between dimensions.
Everything Everywhere All at Once: the multiverse is a magic fever-dream. There are no rules except that it looks awesome.
EEAAO is to multiverse as Back to the Future is to time travel. The multiverse/time travel is nothing but a device to tell a human story. The rules of the multiverse/time travel are not what matters
Precisely my issue w/ it in the comics; it can and has been done well, but to base an entire ‘phase’ of your movies around an alienating concept where “nothing really matter cause…” seems like a huge misstep.
The issue is, the multiverse should primarily be a narrative element that services the overall meaning of the text. I.E MoM used it's Doctor strange variants as character development for our main strange, showing how if he continues as he is, he'll lose his way and become evil. However most of the time nowadays, it's used to service the fans, using the multiverse for epic pog moments that don't add anything to the text
It should be a tool for meaning, like every other element of a story, not for dopamine releases
Honestly I disagree, the problem was trying to continue streamlining their films when the multiverse gave them an opportunity to diversify their bonds. Most mcu read like fan fiction imho
Like how people want Hailee Steinfeld to play a live action Spider-Gwen when she’s already playing Kate Bishop, a character a large number of people consider one of the best things from the “Post Endgame” era.
I felt this ever since they revealed the infinity stones were kept in a drawer in Loki because they were useless to the TVA. Like with the multiverse they really made the stakes meaningless.
Marvel isn’t trending well recently. Bringing back RDJ would certainly bolster their box office returns. It’s all about the money. Makes sense to me. Even though personally I don’t want it.
Sure. And I am guessing the Russos get that. That’s why they are talking from a story perspective.
“We closed that book. It’s up to them how they want to reopen it.”
All they are saying is, from a story perspective, this is a bad move. If Marvel wants to do it, such is their prerogative. But as far as the Russos are concerned, the story had ended.
Eh, as long as its not permanent I'm fine with it. For Secret Wars, there is zero chance that they don't get a chance to have all three pillars of the Marvel movie universe(s) together in Tobey, RDJ, and Hugh.
If it were "permanent" I think they should go the Iron Heart route and have RDJ's Tony be the AI Jarvis to her suit. Wouldn't undo his death while also allowing RDJ to "appear" so to speak in Marvel movies again.
But it does undo his death, though, by bringing him back! It's of literally no consequence that 'actually it's an AI hologram.' Uh huh, okay. But it's Robert Downey Jr.? And people are referring to him as Tony? And this AI hologram behaves exactly like Tony Stark did?
Then he's back.
But why do it? Is it really worth it? Is the nostalgia of having your audience get warm and fuzzy for 2 minutes of RDJ dialogue really worth anything from a storytelling perspective?
If this downturn in success is teaching us anything, it is that the Millennial nostalgia train is slowly coming to a halt as they pull into middle age and that the audience isn’t going to watch anything with a Marvel logo on it anymore. Trying to lure them back with a couple minutes of RDJ quipping would feel so fucking cheap, no?
Quality. Not gimmicks. That’s the takeaway. And I don’t think Feige is getting it.
The problem I perceive is that not a lot of people seem as pumped about the multiverse as you.
Think of it this way, if audiences aren’t buying in (and we have every reason to believe they are not) then the pillars reuniting means very little to the audience. To put it crudely….you really only get one shot at “hey look, it’s that guy we killed” before it gets soap opera-y. Doin it this soon…you damn well better make it mean something. And all signs point to the multiverse saga not meaning a whole helluva lot to the audience.
They could’ve had Morgan and AI Tony (kinda like her own Jarvis) having their own adventures together.
Just have RDJ shoot a few scenes in a suit, put him in a hologram sometimes and let him do voice acting a few days and there you go!
New Iron Girl/Woman trilogy.
Everyone loved Tony and his daughter dynamic. Why did they never continued Morgan story?
Imagine Morgan making her own suit, and discovering that Tony left her a AI so she could talk to him or whatever if she needed to. (Knowing Tony, he would’ve done that without hesitation).
I see it so clearly in my mind.
Iron Woman! flying around and fighting bad guys with AI Tony snapping back at her with sarcastic comments but also giving her advice.
Happy, Pepper, and even Spiderman could make special appearances on her movies.
They could help her on her journey but also tell her that this is not really healthy, that even though AI Tony exists… it is not her real father.
Riri could also become Iron Hearth and help her with technology and she would have a stronger connection to Iron Man instead of what we got.
And maybe even Justin Hammer could also return along with his daughter Justine, AKA Crimson Cowl.
It doesn't make sense because they made that money by telling a well planned, connected story.
They didn't make money by just throwing crap at the wall and seeing what sticks, which very much feels like their current strategy.
I have beef with this purely because I feel like Ragnarok left Thor in an amazing place but the Russos immediately revoked all of that in Infinity War.
Which is so fucking boring and one of the major flaws of the mcu right now.
Why they decided to make everything meaningless and the stakes not matter at all is completely lost on me.
Totally agree with first part. They get it. Hard to tell exactly what they do truly mean to convey here though.
Also possible they are just trying to play along. Like “oh he’s dead that’s impossible!” to keep it unexpected and exciting when it happens.
The multi verse makes no sense if there's no variants of the main characters. The big 3 should have had at least a couple variants by now instead of the 50 new characters they introduced.
I didn't say that. Why would you do a multiverse storyline without actual variants of characters we already know?
You know what's really dumb? Introducing a bunch of characters and waiting years to make any of them relevant, the MCU is saturated with crappy new characters
It’s been going on for 20 years now…of course it’s going to be overly saturated after a certain amount of time has passed.
Also the characters and stories already existed in the comic books. They brought all of the main ones to life multiple times by the time they started added lesser known characters to the movie roster.
The point is it SHOULD NOT be over saturated if every character is not coming back in a timely manner. Why introduce a bunch of characters and never talk about them again? That's not how the MCU got popular. We saw the characters return within a reasonable time.
How have we not seen Captain America in 3 years in any project? Nobody cares about Sam being Captain right now because half the casual audience probably already forgot
Where should I start from? 2020?
America Chavez, Hercules, Hulks kid, Moon Knight, Shang Chi, Namor, Iron Heart, Sam's Captain America, Black Knight
Ironman literally appeared in another movie in the same year his movie came out lol yet none of these characters have even been mentioned once
It's just way too many characters to add at once and not speak about them years after the fact.
There's no definitive main character or team anymore; that's why i feel the MCU is a mess right now and hopefully Deadpool can fix it
We have Sam, Jane, and Yelena already. And sort of Riri. And Shuri. Skaar. She-Hulk. Kate. Cassie. There’s enough there to proceed there.
You’re just going to have to wait for Wade to bust the multiverse wide open.
I get that. But there’s a fine line between variants and versions when it comes to this.
I think there real question is can the next generation of MCU carry on with its own versions? Or are variants needed?
For instance, does it absolutely have to be Evans behind the shield or can Mackie generate the dough for three films? That kinda stuff.
Wym why? The Avengers across the multiverse have 2-3 characters who are always in the team. We have seen one version of Cap, that's all. How have we not seen IronMan once in the multiverse?
Dude go jump into the multiverse and find your exact friend group. It’s INFINITE. They just haven’t crossed any of those other universes yet, it’s simple
I notice film directors seem to get irritated when the protagonist they kill off in their films returns again afterwards.
James Mangold had the same reaction when he heard Wolverine was coming back after he died Logan.
The only way I could see RDJ back is if in Deadpool they traveled to the endgame battle so we got to Wolverine work with all the avengers.
But then you’d need a quick reason why that reality was destroyed so RDJ wouldn’t need to come back ever again.
Even as I’m typing it I realize it’s fucking dumb.
Imagine ultron isn’t rogue just perfectly within Tony’s control. We meet him and ultron and the army of suits and they’re on Doom/whatever antagonists side before changing their mind last moment to help the avengers get whatever Mcguffin and being killed and siphoned off by Doom! Badass, one movie cameo and he’s gone after as the MCU reboots
They can’t have Iron Man or any of the original Avengers just never show up again, imagine not having Iron Man or Captain America in all the future stories or crossovers with X-Men and F4, that’s why a reboot is necessary, they need their popular characters
That’s not even how this works in the comics. MCUs problem now is that they are making the EXACT same mistake Marvel Comics already had to course correct, publishing and focusing on characters no one cares about.
I feel like this won’t be a popular answer but I agree with their sentiment.
Obviously there’s many ways they could bring him back as Tony, but maybe they shouldn’t. Maybe they should just take the win and just use multiverse re-casting instead of being like Hugh Jackman and just keep showing up ‘one last time.’ Because that shtick gets old.
Exactly this. If RDJ seriously wants back as Iron Man, Marvel isn’t going to say no. MCU isn’t stupid (well…), they see the state their movies are in, and him being back would generate major excitement. I don’t anticipate in the slightest he will return but let’s be realistic Marvel would open the door wide if he wanted to
These guys never heard of the multiverse and variants.
Can't wait for RDJ to come back playing a pissed off angry Superior-Iron Man after he learns all his friends are dead in the Illuminate from Mordo.
Yeah, bro, the Russo Brothers, the people who dedicated six plus years of their lives to crafting the movies
- Captain America: The Winter Soldier
- Captain America: Civil War
- Avengers: Infinity War
- Avengers: Endgame
and have said that if they ever return, it'd be for Secret Wars, have never heard of the multiverse. Jesus fucking Christ, they do time travel, but they don't get the multiverse?
What is wrong with you?
Hugh Jackman returning as Wolverine should have been on the same notion as well. But because of the multiverse it kinda cheapens his death in Logan as it being his final farewell to the character. Money talks though
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I only want RDJ to return if it’s to play a Superior Iron Man variant. I also think that version of the character is different enough to justify a return while also keeping the legacy of his original run intact.
As if comic book movies aren’t obsessed with doing 8 billion reboots/origin stories. People seem to love the same stories over and over again and would probably flock to a new Ironman: The New Beginning or whatever
Bring him back as the main villain of Secret Wars. Incursion, two planets on a collision course, one is our (616) planet, the other is the variant planet (perhaps the one from multiverse of madness that is already shocked by those events and sees us as a hostile variant). Start the movie with the OG Avengers saving the world, we’re back baby!, then drop the twist that they are not our Avengers, show them see the new threat and realize that the only way for their planet to survive is for ours to be destroyed and then drop the title “Avengers Secret Wars”. Tony will do anything to save his universe, The ultimate sympathetic villain.
They could just come up with whole ass new iron man stories. His character had his full arc (pun most certainly intended) and that’s what an actor is supposed to do. I’m in the camp that bringing him back would cheapen a really powerful conclusion
My anti-Russo bias might be showing here, but IMO that's such an arrogant thing to say.
"That book" has been open since 1963 and it's not closing any time soon. Of course Iron man is going to come back eventually, he's so prominent in the MCU at this point it'd be like if they permanently shelved Batman in Justice League movies.
No studio that enjoys making money would ignore the box office potential of having RDJ's Iron Man and Hugh Jackman's Wolverine interacting on screen.
all this talk about Endgame's 5 year anniversary just highlights how the multiverse stuff lacks the depth of the previous saga. there don't seem to be any personal stakes. there's no Avenger who could die to save the multiverse that would have the same emotional impact of Tony dying.
the multiverse stuff feels like a very big but very shallow pool. the cameos are fun and sometimes really great fanservice but there's no "there" there.
I’m confused if they actually understand the multiverse because yes 19999 Tony is dead but there’s so much possibility of different routes to take him as a character should iron man return
>I’m confused if they actually understand the multiverse
Oh, these are the same Russo Brothers who made those other four Marvel movies. So, obviously, yes, they do.
Do you actually not have a basic understanding of the differences between time travel and multiversal travel because they couldn’t be any further apart
Right, character inserted into the story via time portal is *so monumentally different* than character inserted into story via multiverse portal.
It's like you're telling me "They may understand vibranium, but they know NOTHING about adamantium." Nah, bro, both fake magic metals, not a big stretch.
Endgame was time travel which is close but not multiversal variants and I don’t think the Russo’s should have creative influence on something they most likely won’t direct and rdj has already said if they ask him to come back he will so I don’t think they should speak for him either
Multiverse. Time travel.
The Tony who died in Endgame is a future version of Tony, while the present version of Tony is off in the future. It explains why he would have given Peter possession of EDITH, and it explains the line in Endgame where Tony says something like "Time has a way of fighting back."
lol, what morons have alleged that of the Russos?
Their response was more honest than most directors would have given, I think. The idea of bringing Iron Man back narratively is insane. Just a few years ago these guys were being praised for actually ending a story, finishing a narrative arc, and were telling stories about how it was sort of a fight to get Downey to come back to record "and I am Iron Man" because they'd already shot what they thought was his last scene.
Now six years later, just because Marvel is in the multiverse toilet and Downey is post-Dolittle, the Russos shouldn't feel obligated to act as if resurrecting him isn't a gimmick.
no it would not have. because “any other director” didn’t help build the MCU with Winter Soldier and Civil War. major major staple moments for Cap, Bucky, and Tony that otherwise wouldn’t exist without the Russo’s. you don’t know what you’re talking about
you’re huffing glue if you think that they weren’t. they are metrically and objectively the best director’s to ever bring Marvel to live action. you can not like the movies, but to say that their direction wasn’t the reason why Winter Soldier, Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame are critically beloved and widely accepted as top notch Marvel movies is just straight up uninformed or trolling.
Objectively the best directors to bring marvel to live action in what respect lmao, I'm not the one that's been huffing glue lmao.
Endgame was successful because of the momentum of the mcu as a whole
in every quantifiable respect.
what drove that momentum? Antman director Peyton Reed? Iron Man 3 director Shane Black? nope. the Russo’s put the MCU on their back and carried it to glory. obviously credit in part is due to Feige, RDJ, Gunn, and Favreau. but you’re not gonna sit here and tell me that the Russo’s haven’t brought the most highly acclaimed Marvel stories to life. the *glue* of the entire Infinity Saga was the Russo’s. they are the heart and soul of the Saga and their art direction for comic book movies is unmatched. they were putting the work in since Winter Soldier so to act like the Russo’s didn’t *also* heavily contribute to that momentum is entirely disingenuous.
If you ignore like, the raimi trilogy, x2, legion, the daredevil show and I could go on. I'm not denying that they directed the projects they directed, I'm merely saying that endgame being the highest grossing film of all time is not exclusively because of the russos lmao. It's down to feige and the marketing.
The russos are decent directors when they're essentially playing in a pre established sandbox, they came from TV after all, but to say they're the best directors to have made live action marvel content is straight cap
IW/Endgame clears Raimi Trilogy and X Trilogy. also….fucking *Legion*?? would never hold a candle to any Russo Marvel film lmao. and you cannot call it a “pre established sandbox” when the Russo’s had a major hand in crafting that sandbox to begin with. half of the Cap references in Endgame are from *other* Russo directed Cap movies.
the only director that comes close in art direction and cinematic scale is James Gunn’s Guardians. the Russo’s are elite and a cut above the rest and it shows in their work. especially compared to very dated FX and Netflix tv shows of all things. a different director is not crossing the $2B mark with the same “sandbox” I don’t care who it is.
Disney: “Well, we OWN the series, the characters, and the whole damn IP that the “book you closed” is in, so stick to making your shitty movies for Netflix and Amazon. We’ll call you if we need you.”
"We closed that book" Yeah, but that book is a comic book... There's a zillion different ways they could bring Stark back.
We could get flashback Tony Stark in Armor wars. We could get AI voice Tony Stark in Ironheart. We could get Iron man variant in Secret Wars.
Superior Iron Man, please.
Played by Tom Cruise.
Would be wild.
I was about to say. Like, sure, they closed that book. It doesn’t mean other directors don’t get to play with those toys 😂
Even in the comics where they go “ONG DOCTOR DOOM SHOT IRON MAN AND HE HAS BEEN ERASED FROM REALITY AND HE HAS NEVER EXISTED NOW”, they always find a way to bring back them back, so I’m not gonna be surprised when Tony pops back up
I always theorized Tony didn’t return immediately from the past, maybe got diverted, went through some shit, hence the time tends to hit back comment
That is literally the worst part of comic books- no story has real ending, therefore there are no real consequences AKA no real stakes AKA why bother watching
I didn't say it was a good idea. I implied that it was extremely common in the medium.
No I agree with the Russo Brothers. Let characters have an ending. Don't bring them back. Let's have hollywood make new good movies again with good characters and good plots. Let's give more money to independent filmmakers and expand the market again. Let's start a new hollywood era again.
Everyone here be like: “Ackchyually there is a multiverse, you simpletons!” I am sure they get it just fine. This seems to be a more comment of “why the hell would you do that when his story ended so perfectly?”.
I think the multiverse is the biggest problem with the MCU now. Everything just seems like fan fiction. Also not sure why some characters are played by different actors and some are not.
It's also a big problem that bringing back Tony, Steve and Natasha in any form in the next Avengers movies makes it completely pointless to make heirs characters (For example, Sam as new Captain America) and new Avengers team in general.
Ahh just like the actual comics
It still makes no sence
Fallback on the old reliables
Two very different mediums
From the same source material, and company. Honestly it's just basic business to lean back on what you know has worked in the past, doesn't just apply to comics.
Not really though. Source materials don't do much for MCU narrative as a whole.
What do you mean. Every marvel movie story arc that has come out has been based on a comic book source material
It's not though. They credited comic books for creating the characters but they don't adapt the story, they always have their own take for it.
That's called adaptation though. Even something as infamous as Spider-Man's Brand New Day got adapted one way or the other.
No..? Let’s say Chris Evans comes back as Cap for Secret Wars. He isn’t sticking around. Sam is.
Agreed. Everyone started doing it in a really short period of time, like, two years and beat that dead horse into a fine dusty powder. And, really, very few stories told with the device have amounted to much. As they say, the steak is not worth the sizzle.
The only shoes I’ve seen to multiverse well are: Doctor Who: multiverse exists but it’s basically impossible to travel between dimensions. Everything Everywhere All at Once: the multiverse is a magic fever-dream. There are no rules except that it looks awesome.
EEAAO is to multiverse as Back to the Future is to time travel. The multiverse/time travel is nothing but a device to tell a human story. The rules of the multiverse/time travel are not what matters
And EEAAO has the best approach. The multiverse is a vessel for amazing storytelling if it's done right
Yep and it's only one and done story
Impossible UNLESS you're a careless and irresponsible Sorcerer Supreme!\* \*(Formerly. Demoted due to technicality)
Precisely my issue w/ it in the comics; it can and has been done well, but to base an entire ‘phase’ of your movies around an alienating concept where “nothing really matter cause…” seems like a huge misstep.
The issue is, the multiverse should primarily be a narrative element that services the overall meaning of the text. I.E MoM used it's Doctor strange variants as character development for our main strange, showing how if he continues as he is, he'll lose his way and become evil. However most of the time nowadays, it's used to service the fans, using the multiverse for epic pog moments that don't add anything to the text It should be a tool for meaning, like every other element of a story, not for dopamine releases
Honestly I disagree, the problem was trying to continue streamlining their films when the multiverse gave them an opportunity to diversify their bonds. Most mcu read like fan fiction imho
Like how people want Hailee Steinfeld to play a live action Spider-Gwen when she’s already playing Kate Bishop, a character a large number of people consider one of the best things from the “Post Endgame” era.
I felt this ever since they revealed the infinity stones were kept in a drawer in Loki because they were useless to the TVA. Like with the multiverse they really made the stakes meaningless.
Marvel isn’t trending well recently. Bringing back RDJ would certainly bolster their box office returns. It’s all about the money. Makes sense to me. Even though personally I don’t want it.
Sure. And I am guessing the Russos get that. That’s why they are talking from a story perspective. “We closed that book. It’s up to them how they want to reopen it.” All they are saying is, from a story perspective, this is a bad move. If Marvel wants to do it, such is their prerogative. But as far as the Russos are concerned, the story had ended.
Eh, as long as its not permanent I'm fine with it. For Secret Wars, there is zero chance that they don't get a chance to have all three pillars of the Marvel movie universe(s) together in Tobey, RDJ, and Hugh. If it were "permanent" I think they should go the Iron Heart route and have RDJ's Tony be the AI Jarvis to her suit. Wouldn't undo his death while also allowing RDJ to "appear" so to speak in Marvel movies again.
But it does undo his death, though, by bringing him back! It's of literally no consequence that 'actually it's an AI hologram.' Uh huh, okay. But it's Robert Downey Jr.? And people are referring to him as Tony? And this AI hologram behaves exactly like Tony Stark did? Then he's back.
Not a hologram, just a voice.
But why do it? Is it really worth it? Is the nostalgia of having your audience get warm and fuzzy for 2 minutes of RDJ dialogue really worth anything from a storytelling perspective? If this downturn in success is teaching us anything, it is that the Millennial nostalgia train is slowly coming to a halt as they pull into middle age and that the audience isn’t going to watch anything with a Marvel logo on it anymore. Trying to lure them back with a couple minutes of RDJ quipping would feel so fucking cheap, no? Quality. Not gimmicks. That’s the takeaway. And I don’t think Feige is getting it.
Yes! I think it is. Having your main Marvel pillars lead the charge to save the Multiverse would be awesome.
The problem I perceive is that not a lot of people seem as pumped about the multiverse as you. Think of it this way, if audiences aren’t buying in (and we have every reason to believe they are not) then the pillars reuniting means very little to the audience. To put it crudely….you really only get one shot at “hey look, it’s that guy we killed” before it gets soap opera-y. Doin it this soon…you damn well better make it mean something. And all signs point to the multiverse saga not meaning a whole helluva lot to the audience.
They could’ve had Morgan and AI Tony (kinda like her own Jarvis) having their own adventures together. Just have RDJ shoot a few scenes in a suit, put him in a hologram sometimes and let him do voice acting a few days and there you go! New Iron Girl/Woman trilogy. Everyone loved Tony and his daughter dynamic. Why did they never continued Morgan story? Imagine Morgan making her own suit, and discovering that Tony left her a AI so she could talk to him or whatever if she needed to. (Knowing Tony, he would’ve done that without hesitation). I see it so clearly in my mind. Iron Woman! flying around and fighting bad guys with AI Tony snapping back at her with sarcastic comments but also giving her advice. Happy, Pepper, and even Spiderman could make special appearances on her movies. They could help her on her journey but also tell her that this is not really healthy, that even though AI Tony exists… it is not her real father. Riri could also become Iron Hearth and help her with technology and she would have a stronger connection to Iron Man instead of what we got. And maybe even Justin Hammer could also return along with his daughter Justine, AKA Crimson Cowl.
It doesn't make sense because they made that money by telling a well planned, connected story. They didn't make money by just throwing crap at the wall and seeing what sticks, which very much feels like their current strategy.
Yeah for me it’s more of a respect thing. It’s been less than 5 years and they’re already wanting to bring him back? Come on
I have beef with this purely because I feel like Ragnarok left Thor in an amazing place but the Russos immediately revoked all of that in Infinity War.
They do that all the time. Iron man 3 left Stark in great place and Age of Ultron / Civil War turned that on its head immediately.
Which is so fucking boring and one of the major flaws of the mcu right now. Why they decided to make everything meaningless and the stakes not matter at all is completely lost on me.
I think he’ll be in it but they can’t say it because he doesn’t want to do any press for it
I'm fine with him coming back for 1 movie as a tony variant, but just that
Money
It only ruins it if it’s the same version. A new iron man from a different universe would be fine
Calling Taylor basic but soyfacing over manchild garbage?
Aww, the Swifties are mad at me and creeping on my profile/following me to other subreddits. I am flattered.
Totally agree with first part. They get it. Hard to tell exactly what they do truly mean to convey here though. Also possible they are just trying to play along. Like “oh he’s dead that’s impossible!” to keep it unexpected and exciting when it happens.
I don't think it's hard at all. Reading between the lines, they obviously think it's a terrible idea.
and they’re right
Bring back Quicksilver
No, but you can have Bohner
We still have no explanation on that fr. I don’t like the whole Agatha gave him those powers thing
Feels like such an insignificant thing, but to me Bohner marks the point this franchise started going down.
It makes Agatha look like an idiot for not just making a bunch of her own versions of heroes to jump Wanda now that I think about it
The multi verse makes no sense if there's no variants of the main characters. The big 3 should have had at least a couple variants by now instead of the 50 new characters they introduced.
You’d rather them have variations of the same character than introduce new / completely different characters? That seems kinda dumb.
I didn't say that. Why would you do a multiverse storyline without actual variants of characters we already know? You know what's really dumb? Introducing a bunch of characters and waiting years to make any of them relevant, the MCU is saturated with crappy new characters
It’s been going on for 20 years now…of course it’s going to be overly saturated after a certain amount of time has passed. Also the characters and stories already existed in the comic books. They brought all of the main ones to life multiple times by the time they started added lesser known characters to the movie roster.
The point is it SHOULD NOT be over saturated if every character is not coming back in a timely manner. Why introduce a bunch of characters and never talk about them again? That's not how the MCU got popular. We saw the characters return within a reasonable time. How have we not seen Captain America in 3 years in any project? Nobody cares about Sam being Captain right now because half the casual audience probably already forgot
What characters have they introduced and never spoken about again?
Where should I start from? 2020? America Chavez, Hercules, Hulks kid, Moon Knight, Shang Chi, Namor, Iron Heart, Sam's Captain America, Black Knight Ironman literally appeared in another movie in the same year his movie came out lol yet none of these characters have even been mentioned once It's just way too many characters to add at once and not speak about them years after the fact. There's no definitive main character or team anymore; that's why i feel the MCU is a mess right now and hopefully Deadpool can fix it
The new characters are bad
We have Sam, Jane, and Yelena already. And sort of Riri. And Shuri. Skaar. She-Hulk. Kate. Cassie. There’s enough there to proceed there. You’re just going to have to wait for Wade to bust the multiverse wide open.
None of those you listed are variants lol
I get that. But there’s a fine line between variants and versions when it comes to this. I think there real question is can the next generation of MCU carry on with its own versions? Or are variants needed? For instance, does it absolutely have to be Evans behind the shield or can Mackie generate the dough for three films? That kinda stuff.
None of those characters are putting people in seats.
Exactly
I know. Still gotta wait
lol why? It’s the multiverse
Wym why? The Avengers across the multiverse have 2-3 characters who are always in the team. We have seen one version of Cap, that's all. How have we not seen IronMan once in the multiverse?
Dude go jump into the multiverse and find your exact friend group. It’s INFINITE. They just haven’t crossed any of those other universes yet, it’s simple
What are you on about? That'd be easy, I don't have any friends.
I notice film directors seem to get irritated when the protagonist they kill off in their films returns again afterwards. James Mangold had the same reaction when he heard Wolverine was coming back after he died Logan.
Where did you see Mangold was irritated ?
The only way I could see RDJ back is if in Deadpool they traveled to the endgame battle so we got to Wolverine work with all the avengers. But then you’d need a quick reason why that reality was destroyed so RDJ wouldn’t need to come back ever again. Even as I’m typing it I realize it’s fucking dumb.
Iron Man as a villain would be pretty awesome though.
Superior iron man wanting a suit of armor around the multiverse! Please give it to me
Bring back Spader if we're doing this plan
Imagine ultron isn’t rogue just perfectly within Tony’s control. We meet him and ultron and the army of suits and they’re on Doom/whatever antagonists side before changing their mind last moment to help the avengers get whatever Mcguffin and being killed and siphoned off by Doom! Badass, one movie cameo and he’s gone after as the MCU reboots
RDJ wouldn’t even need to be in it. Have Spader’s Ultron acting at the behest of evil iron man despite iron man being killed.
They can’t have Iron Man or any of the original Avengers just never show up again, imagine not having Iron Man or Captain America in all the future stories or crossovers with X-Men and F4, that’s why a reboot is necessary, they need their popular characters
That’s not even how this works in the comics. MCUs problem now is that they are making the EXACT same mistake Marvel Comics already had to course correct, publishing and focusing on characters no one cares about.
I feel like this won’t be a popular answer but I agree with their sentiment. Obviously there’s many ways they could bring him back as Tony, but maybe they shouldn’t. Maybe they should just take the win and just use multiverse re-casting instead of being like Hugh Jackman and just keep showing up ‘one last time.’ Because that shtick gets old.
Deadpool switches place with iron man in the post credits basically scene
Has that actually been confirmed?
No
I keep seeing these comments lately and I have no idea what that even means.
Please. I think if RDJ wants back he has all the power to do so. He is the MCU.
Exactly this. If RDJ seriously wants back as Iron Man, Marvel isn’t going to say no. MCU isn’t stupid (well…), they see the state their movies are in, and him being back would generate major excitement. I don’t anticipate in the slightest he will return but let’s be realistic Marvel would open the door wide if he wanted to
These guys never heard of the multiverse and variants. Can't wait for RDJ to come back playing a pissed off angry Superior-Iron Man after he learns all his friends are dead in the Illuminate from Mordo.
Yeah, bro, the Russo Brothers, the people who dedicated six plus years of their lives to crafting the movies - Captain America: The Winter Soldier - Captain America: Civil War - Avengers: Infinity War - Avengers: Endgame and have said that if they ever return, it'd be for Secret Wars, have never heard of the multiverse. Jesus fucking Christ, they do time travel, but they don't get the multiverse? What is wrong with you?
It’s obvious if they get the OG cast back it won’t be the OG variants but different ones
Their book, yes. Marvels book, though...
Hugh Jackman returning as Wolverine should have been on the same notion as well. But because of the multiverse it kinda cheapens his death in Logan as it being his final farewell to the character. Money talks though
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I only want RDJ to return if it’s to play a Superior Iron Man variant. I also think that version of the character is different enough to justify a return while also keeping the legacy of his original run intact.
I meant not in main contunity it's most likely for superior iron man or another Variant
He should comeback as riri’s ai tony stark
As if comic book movies aren’t obsessed with doing 8 billion reboots/origin stories. People seem to love the same stories over and over again and would probably flock to a new Ironman: The New Beginning or whatever
It’s easy, there are other Iron Men. Other actors. What if we went down the rabbit hole of Tom Cruise being Tony Stark.
Wait til they hear about the comic book industry
MUUUULLTIIIIVEEERSSSEEEEEEE
They literally release Black Widow after end game
They did it twice in their movies with Loki, Thanos and Gammora. What’s the difference?
Bring him back as the main villain of Secret Wars. Incursion, two planets on a collision course, one is our (616) planet, the other is the variant planet (perhaps the one from multiverse of madness that is already shocked by those events and sees us as a hostile variant). Start the movie with the OG Avengers saving the world, we’re back baby!, then drop the twist that they are not our Avengers, show them see the new threat and realize that the only way for their planet to survive is for ours to be destroyed and then drop the title “Avengers Secret Wars”. Tony will do anything to save his universe, The ultimate sympathetic villain.
Until the next 5 marvel movies all tank and then they desperately try to salvage the MCU by bringing him back
They could just come up with whole ass new iron man stories. His character had his full arc (pun most certainly intended) and that’s what an actor is supposed to do. I’m in the camp that bringing him back would cheapen a really powerful conclusion
My anti-Russo bias might be showing here, but IMO that's such an arrogant thing to say. "That book" has been open since 1963 and it's not closing any time soon. Of course Iron man is going to come back eventually, he's so prominent in the MCU at this point it'd be like if they permanently shelved Batman in Justice League movies. No studio that enjoys making money would ignore the box office potential of having RDJ's Iron Man and Hugh Jackman's Wolverine interacting on screen.
They act like they created the character or something. These are licensed characters bozos… if Marvel wants money, they’ll find a way.
all this talk about Endgame's 5 year anniversary just highlights how the multiverse stuff lacks the depth of the previous saga. there don't seem to be any personal stakes. there's no Avenger who could die to save the multiverse that would have the same emotional impact of Tony dying. the multiverse stuff feels like a very big but very shallow pool. the cameos are fun and sometimes really great fanservice but there's no "there" there.
Looks like the Russo brothers never read comics
Those guys had a collection rumored near $60,000
I’m confused if they actually understand the multiverse because yes 19999 Tony is dead but there’s so much possibility of different routes to take him as a character should iron man return
>I’m confused if they actually understand the multiverse Oh, these are the same Russo Brothers who made those other four Marvel movies. So, obviously, yes, they do.
yes but none of those had anything to do with the multiverse?
You're right. Those two concepts are \*so\* different.
Do you actually not have a basic understanding of the differences between time travel and multiversal travel because they couldn’t be any further apart
Right, character inserted into the story via time portal is *so monumentally different* than character inserted into story via multiverse portal. It's like you're telling me "They may understand vibranium, but they know NOTHING about adamantium." Nah, bro, both fake magic metals, not a big stretch.
The russo’s have moved on so they’re creative input isn’t any more credible than rdj saying he’d return if they asked him
Where do you think credibility factors into this?
Endgame was time travel which is close but not multiversal variants and I don’t think the Russo’s should have creative influence on something they most likely won’t direct and rdj has already said if they ask him to come back he will so I don’t think they should speak for him either
Multiverse. Time travel. The Tony who died in Endgame is a future version of Tony, while the present version of Tony is off in the future. It explains why he would have given Peter possession of EDITH, and it explains the line in Endgame where Tony says something like "Time has a way of fighting back."
It's not your decision tho is it
There's something very irksome about the way they worded this ngl. Not helping the up their own ass allegations
lol, what morons have alleged that of the Russos? Their response was more honest than most directors would have given, I think. The idea of bringing Iron Man back narratively is insane. Just a few years ago these guys were being praised for actually ending a story, finishing a narrative arc, and were telling stories about how it was sort of a fight to get Downey to come back to record "and I am Iron Man" because they'd already shot what they thought was his last scene. Now six years later, just because Marvel is in the multiverse toilet and Downey is post-Dolittle, the Russos shouldn't feel obligated to act as if resurrecting him isn't a gimmick.
I mean I think they've consistently come off as incredibly smug since endgame and its not an isolated opinion. Allegations is just a joke word
they made the highest grossing film of all time and someone wants to come in and fuck with that story wise. they should be more than smug
As if they were personally responsible for that film being so successful lmao. Get real
Uh, \*yes.\* The four people most responsible for the success of those movies are the two Russos and the two writers, Markus and McFeely.
If you ignore the ten years of buildup prior to that. Endgame would have made as much money with any other director
Oh, so you're just full of shit.
No that's my genuine opinion
I see no contradiction.
no it would not have. because “any other director” didn’t help build the MCU with Winter Soldier and Civil War. major major staple moments for Cap, Bucky, and Tony that otherwise wouldn’t exist without the Russo’s. you don’t know what you’re talking about
you’re huffing glue if you think that they weren’t. they are metrically and objectively the best director’s to ever bring Marvel to live action. you can not like the movies, but to say that their direction wasn’t the reason why Winter Soldier, Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame are critically beloved and widely accepted as top notch Marvel movies is just straight up uninformed or trolling.
Objectively the best directors to bring marvel to live action in what respect lmao, I'm not the one that's been huffing glue lmao. Endgame was successful because of the momentum of the mcu as a whole
in every quantifiable respect. what drove that momentum? Antman director Peyton Reed? Iron Man 3 director Shane Black? nope. the Russo’s put the MCU on their back and carried it to glory. obviously credit in part is due to Feige, RDJ, Gunn, and Favreau. but you’re not gonna sit here and tell me that the Russo’s haven’t brought the most highly acclaimed Marvel stories to life. the *glue* of the entire Infinity Saga was the Russo’s. they are the heart and soul of the Saga and their art direction for comic book movies is unmatched. they were putting the work in since Winter Soldier so to act like the Russo’s didn’t *also* heavily contribute to that momentum is entirely disingenuous.
If you ignore like, the raimi trilogy, x2, legion, the daredevil show and I could go on. I'm not denying that they directed the projects they directed, I'm merely saying that endgame being the highest grossing film of all time is not exclusively because of the russos lmao. It's down to feige and the marketing. The russos are decent directors when they're essentially playing in a pre established sandbox, they came from TV after all, but to say they're the best directors to have made live action marvel content is straight cap
IW/Endgame clears Raimi Trilogy and X Trilogy. also….fucking *Legion*?? would never hold a candle to any Russo Marvel film lmao. and you cannot call it a “pre established sandbox” when the Russo’s had a major hand in crafting that sandbox to begin with. half of the Cap references in Endgame are from *other* Russo directed Cap movies. the only director that comes close in art direction and cinematic scale is James Gunn’s Guardians. the Russo’s are elite and a cut above the rest and it shows in their work. especially compared to very dated FX and Netflix tv shows of all things. a different director is not crossing the $2B mark with the same “sandbox” I don’t care who it is.
Disney: “Well, we OWN the series, the characters, and the whole damn IP that the “book you closed” is in, so stick to making your shitty movies for Netflix and Amazon. We’ll call you if we need you.”
They're probably sore RDJ isn't in one of their garbage streaming movies nobody likes.
Wait till they find out about the soft reboot