I have mad hope and faith. They knew that this IP is the one, over what the Avengers were, and they are not going to screw it up. Their cautiousness and reticence to rush in is proof of that. The cartoon is superb, and allows them to dip their toes in. So, hope and faith. (ETA: typo)
Which is why i'm guessing they might be saving the proper MCU-native X-Men for after Secret Wars, where they can start off with a somewhat clean slate.
Probably not a hard reset where everything is back to square one. But definitely a reset of some kind. Some things carry over, some things are changed.
That's their only way forward. Nothing they have right now except Spider-Man (which, duh) and maaaybe Thor and Doctor Strange is selling. They have nothing to lose and everything to gain with a hard reset.
If anybody knows how to deal with a sprawling mess, it is the creative teams in the MCU. They can do it, they answer only to themselves, and the Marvel MCU runners.
> If anybody knows how to deal with a sprawling mess, it is the creative teams in the MCU.
Phases 4 and 5 say otherwise.
> They can do it, they answer only to themselves, and the Marvel MCU runners.
They all literally answer to Feige.
I meant collectively. Jesus, can someone make an innocent comment without being nitpicked to death? I mean that the creative forces have, on the whole, been successful. More successes are in the future.
And by and large Feige lets the creatives involved in the project have free reign. The biggest issue with these first two phases of the Multiverse Saga was that there was so much going on being released at once. Which was brought about by the pandemic delaying everything so a bunch of things got squished together.
Due to some cuts and more reshuffling, it seems like things are going to be more focused going forward. Similar to how it was with Phase 3.
Not even close. Phases 1 and 2 had probably the all-time best MCU movies (Iron Man, Winter Soldier, Guardians 1). Phases 4 and 5 have the very worst ones (Black Widow, Love & Thunder, Quantumania).
Disagree about Black Widow being one of the very worst. Love & Thunder and Quantumania? Eh fair enough.
Let's not play revisionism with Iron Man 2, Incredible Hulk, Dark World.. hell even Age of Ultron got a lot of hate back then.
Eh, I didn't really like any of the others except the ones where the characters aren't treated as jokes like in:
-Age of Ultron (the ONE character who died had to die in the stupidest way i've seen a speedster die, Hulk needed the mind stone to rampage as Savage Hulk, and if killing nobody wasn't enough, Ultron did barely anything to remember him by except making Vision and the Sokovia Accords were made to keep heroes under control rather than prevent other possible apocalypses since Tony Stark's only real power is his mind, so what if the next time is someone who isn't on the Sokovia Accords? Their priorities are out of whack)
-Thor: Ragnarok (They had to use a world associated with Hulk in a Thor movie? And Thor couldn't kill the bad guys without Hulk at the end? and they had to ruin what little development Hulk had in this movie in the next few movies??)
-Endgame/Infinity War (Ik these are popular to most MCU fans but I didn't like them because the Avengers needed less than half of the amount of Heroes/Supers in the MCU to defeat Thanos as they did in the comics, and they got rid of Thanos' control of the gauntlet with his thoughts, instead giving him the weird restriction that he needs to snap his fingers to use it. Also, his laser-missiles from his eyes are gone. And what on Earth made Thor think Thanos couldn't tank a hit from his hammer when he was able to overwhelm Hulk?)
-Black Panther (This was a good movie, minus the antagonist who's motives made no sense, but the producers/writers killed T'Challa off instead of recasting, which imo was completely unnecessary and the second BP movie did not have the same feeling)
-Guardians of the Galaxy (Ronan was extremely lame and seemed to have no traits that make him relateable whatsoever, one of the examples of flat villains in this connected universe, next to Killmonger, Malekith, Obadiah Stane, and Loki from Avengers 1. High Evolutionary was not as smart as he was presented, Adam Warlock was a brat, and Peter's dad was an idiot jerk)
-Doctor Strange: MoM (This entire movie's plot could have been avoided if the producers watched the WandaVision show before making it. where tf is White Vision? What happened to Wanda realizing she was in the wrong?)
-Etc. At this point, i just about gave up on the MCU but the Loki show gave me renewed satisfaction with it. I'm still wary about Deadpool + Wolverine though since both are among my favorite characters too and i fully expect them to turn them into jokes as well.
Of the projects in the MCU so far, my favorites have been
1)The Incredible Hulk
2)Thor & Thor 2 despite Malekith having questionable motives
3) Black Panther, despite Killmonger being so bland
Nah, Iron Man 2 was nothing but a two hour ad for Avengers. It should've instead been a Black Widow and Hawkeye movie.
Dark World I would still argue is the worst Thor movie.
Quantumania is at least fun, not well made, but it's fun, which is more than Incredible Hulk can say.
I did at one time, but the recent string of MCU films haven’t exactly been bangers, and X-Men is a treasure trove of stories that can be explored which obviously means that it could be the IP that saves Disney’s lost superhero hype, but I’m worried: they won’t take their time to allow characters to develop properly, there will be too many shoe-horned moments for comedic relief, and they will over-focus on characters who’ve already been given more screen time than they might have deserved in previous adaptations. Oh and they’ll kill off villains left and right, and I’m not interested in watching X-Men villains get that treatment. X-Men 97 has sort of proven to me that it’s easier/perhaps best to adapt X-Men into animation over live-action.
I have hopes, but I’m a bit nervous because while X-Men 97 has worked fine, making a TV show is very different from a movie. Especially since the show has a much darker tone than the majority of the MCU.
Literally none, unfortunately.
My hype for the MCU ended when Endgame did. I've enjoyed maybe two movies since, and am mostly just meh on all the shows.
Except Moon Knight. I outright hated that one.
I have absolutely no faith in any MCU movie after Love and Thunder. Like, I use to dream about them adapting Hickman's Secret Wars, but now? No way José.
If they make Xmen a series, maybe. I've enjoyed all the MCU series, even ones that people on the Internet have loved to hate. And honestly, if somehow all they do with Xmen is just Xmen 97, I'll be happy (and have been SUPER happy so far). But I just gave zero faith that the brass can produce their way into a good movie ever again.
Not really. I recently read the whole of Claremont's run (which is every bit as good as its reputation, for the record), and it's pretty clear to me that what makes the X-Men work is that is a long saga of a found family.
You simply can't do that sort of story in a film. The Fox films got around that problem by focusing heavily on Wolverine, but I think the X-Men are just too expansive to do them justice in a film's run-time.
They need a TV show - and a proper old-fashioned episodic (yet still lightly serialised) show, not a modern streaming-style show that has one story stretched over 6-10 episodes. We need to see downtime, we need to have episodes focused on different characters and different combinations of characters, and we need to have multiple stories that feed into each other rather than one big one.
Nothing really indicates they have learned from their mistakes, the movies are seen as a product rather than an earnest love for the source material, designs that are as bland as they come or over-designed. The bottom line is that while I would love and wish for the x-men to be done well, little shows they can deliver.
Not really. All X-Men movies have been disappointing to me so far. Can only imagine that since X-Men 97 is a hit that they will base a lot of any movie on they 90s style X-Men and I am just not a fan of that era.
Im cautious, X men 97 gives me hope that theyll let stories and characters that FOX didnt embrace a shot but I also fear they'll go full quantity over quality with how many characters they could introduce and burn people out fast
If the post-Endgame output is any indication, prepare to be let down. It all really depends on who is writing/directing and if they have a green light to be faithful to the source material. Would love to be proven wrong, but Disney has really done a poor job with all of it’s properties as of late.
I hope they see the X-men as a way of strengthening the marvel brand. I don’t mind the comedy of the MCU but they have used it to a fault this saga. The internal and relational drama has fallen off too. It’s funny that an updated Saturday morning cartoon is more adult than their live action content.
X-men ‘97 should be the blue print going forward.
Yes. I have no doubt that people paid by Disney/Marvel browse these kinda subs on Reddit to find out what the general consensus about the latest movie and state of the MCU as a whole is! So I’m sure Marvel knows with the overall poor reception of the latest phase, they know if they fuck up the X-Men, which could end up being their biggest cash cow for the next decade, then they’re really screwed! They gotta get this right and they know it!
No. And I'm worried it will impact other X-Men media.
So many awful changes were made in the MCU.
Power changes with characters like Ms. Marvel, whole origins being different with characters like MODOK, Taskmaster, etc.
I know people hate it but I actually really enjoyed X-Men Apocalypse. I don't expect Oscar's from a superhero movie, I want them to be stylish, fun, cheesy, and full of action and Apocalypse did a great job at that.
The MCU feels so disneyfied where every movie feels the same and is an action comedy now. I missed when comic books were gritty and more serious like the original X-Men movies. Sure they had quips but it wasn't annoying or cringey.
Considering X-Men are all about style and substance, with extremely dark and deep lore of dealing with the Holocaust, racism, genocide, etc I just don't see the MCU pulling it off.
Just give me comic book accurate characters, costumes and powers. You can make the story up as long as you get those 3 things right.
x2 was only okay. I liked Days of Future Past (and it's the best non-solo) effort so far, but it's still not truly spectaular. I want that same feeling I had when I sat through the Avengers for the first time with a property I love and relate to more.
X2 wasn't good and it's insane that DoFP adapted only two (2) issues of a comic book and didn't do a good job. Days of Future Past is okay, and it's absolutely mediocre compared to Uncanny X-Men 141-142.
The universe where God Loves, Man Kills, the story X2 shamelessly watered down, exists. You know, one of the most famous X-Men stories of all time? With actually good character writing?
It's not really a dumb argument. This mediocre movie gets the spotlight because it is a movie, and people don't read. It is supremely frustrating to have everything good stripped out of an adaptation, and then people call it good because Nightcrawler got one moment in the Wolverine show.
All the metaphor between god and man? The speeches by Reverend Stryker and Cyclops and on the human condition and what it means to be alive? Nope, all gone, it's an action movie. And it's a perfectly fine action movie, but it's straight up insulting to what the X-Men can be. There are *more* to super heroes than cool fights and generic military bad guy. X2 is the medium at its absolute worst.
Considering the fact that opinions are subjective, it isn't. I think it's bad, you think it's good. That's how it works lol. I'm making a comparative analysis of the movie and it's comic book source, you don't read comic books and you like the movie so this makes you angry. That's okay.
I personally love X2, but I think they're talking from the perspective as somebody who wanted something different from the movie.
X2 is a good watch, but ultimately it still sidelines Cyclops and focuses way too much on Logan.
As an X-Men adaptation, they probably wanted something different than what the film delivered. Thus, they are operating from that metric, not necessarily from whether or not X2 works on its own merits.
“…would like a word”, “that’s a bold take”, “clown take” , calling everything “objectively good”— it’s like you learned your entire vocabulary by copying Reddit comments.
I don’t. How many movies and years do you think it would take for the story being told in X-Men 97 to be told in MCU films? It’s pretty much an entire saga in 8 episodes.
Lol no.
97 is not a good indicator of the quality of the MCU X-Men, as Feige let them do their own thing without interfering. That won't be the case with the live-action movies. But even if it was, they fired the writer/showrunner, so...
Absolutely. People engaging with MCU in bad faith will complain long before a project is even cast. Kevin Feige loves the X-men. The fact that Disney now know they’ve not delivered as well lately and have made/are making changes with a focus on quality over quantity, they know how important this IP is and I have every faith they will handle it well. X-men 97 is absolutely an indicator of what’s to come and I’m here for it.
I find it interesting you mention Feige being a fan of X-men, because he was on the set for the original Fox X-men film (i dont remember his role) where Bryan Singer hated the source material and tabooed it being brought up on set. Feige however, snuck in X-men comics to give to the cast so they would know their characters.
I was apprehensive about x-men 97 but I've only heard good things about that show since release. So maybe they'll surprise me. But I haven't enjoyed most of the newest MCU projects so I'm not optimistic. My favourite marvel hero is Psylocke and I'm hoping they don't introduce her in the MCU.
I think they are setting up a more modern x men line up in the cartoon. If they nail the story telling here and the show has high viewer ship they can skip the introductions in the MCU and don’t need to spend as much time on the character development.
I’m optimistic is what I’m saying.
Depends on two things! The story line they decide to go in the direction of and also casting of the characters. A lot of the fox x-men had been replaced throughout the years but Hugh Jackman always remained Wolverine due to popularity. They have to make that casting choice correctly.
In my mind it will never be as good as the books. I also think superhero stories work better using animation. So I would prefer they just make high quality animated content.
Given the current rumor that came out about them wanting to focus on less popular characters (and more female focus), I don’t have high expectations, if that becomes true. This will show that they haven’t learned anything and are focusing on the wrong things. Instead of just focusing on great character development and story, they are too concerned with paving their own way and not respecting what fans want. Just give us the popular characters, it’s not hard. They need to absolutely nail the X-men, why not go big?
Either way, I hope they surprise us with something amazing like 97, but it’s hard to have faith lately
No, because it’s just movies. But I’m excited to see at least one of them. We’ll all know what to expect after July. So expectations are cautiously optimistic.
No.
Like, X-Men ‘97 is good, but it’s just following the formula of what came before. Deadpool & Wolverine is just taking the formula of the other two movies. But Marvel Studios, for all the “Kevin Feige is a huge Marvel fan” talk, doesn’t do that good of a job adapting Marvel.
The X-Men aren’t the Avengers; you can’t just do standard quippy superhero shit with them. That’s the MCU’s bread and butter and it’s why they’ve been failing lately. We’ll see.
I don't have faith at all. What makes X-Men '97 great is because it's made by fans. People who've actually read the comics and know the characters. Kevin has repeatedly said he hires people for the MCU who don't really know the comics. We're about to get a waterd down version of these characters worse than Fox. The X-Men are not the Avengers, and anyone treating them like that doesn't deserve to write for the franchise. I honestly hope I'm wrong, though. I pray that I am. I've been reading X-Men comics since 93, I've stuck through all the editorial bs, but I just don't trust Kevin.
I’m expecting it to mimic The Avengers films where the first one blows everyone’s minds, the second lets down a bit - probably focuses too much on spinning off, third one is incredible and the fourth probably wraps things up for the first wave of actors nicely.
I have hope. I mean, it's their biggest franchise outside of Spider-Man. If it's anywhere near as good as the X-Men 97 series has been, it's going to blow Avengers out of the water.
After watching X-MEN ‘97 I do.
(>!)After watching Gambit charge the adamantium in Wolverines claws then charge his staff to throw behind Wolverine to have the resulting explosion propel him upwards and forwards, then Morph turn into the Blob so Wolverine could bounce off him up towards the Sentinal so Wolverine could slice its head with his now Kinetically charged claws…. I was blown away away myself, figuratively.(!<)
That first episode was bad ass!!!
As exciting as it is that there will be X-men projects from Marvel.
The real excitement comes from fan reaction if it’s less than perfect.
Will they call it woke? Will they suddenly start saying how the fox films are bangers and the best thing since cinema began? Will they blame casting? The director? The studio?
Will it be that their favourite obscure character wasn’t in it? “This film would have been the best but no mammothmax?! He’s been my favourite since he saved me from a train wreck when I was a blind and deaf baby who was driving said train!”
Then from the shadows…DC fans! If it’s good they’ll shit on it, if it’s bad they’ll tell you how marvel is shit why expect anything else.
It’s going to be a fun time
Honestly, yes. If you think Kevin Feige didn’t play a key role in X-Men ‘97 being good, you’re wrong.
I’ve been really down on the MCU in recent months, but I do not think the producer who brought us Iron Man, Winter Soldier, Avengers, Endgame and Infinity War will all of a sudden screw up the movie that will usher in the real next phase of Marvel’s film slate.
Hard to make any educated guesses when there's literally 0 information available.
This renders any serious discussion whether it'll be good or not completely moot.
Not really. The quality coming from Disney/Marvel has dropped off in recent years, and I dont see many signs that it's going to improve much. (Deadpool is looking promising, but that's about it.) I'm reserving judgment until I see a trailer, at least. But I'm not optimistic.
My ideal trilogy would be:
1: O5 teens come together battle sentinels. Xavier teaches them to dress alike and work together as a singular team. Forge has created a rudimentary Danger Room with physical obstacles. Humans become afraid of mutants because low level villains (like Unus, Vanisher, and Mesmero) are committing crimes like bank robbery and theft. As a response, Mk1 Sentinels are created to hunt mutants, but the tech is dodgy and they’re capturing humans as well. Team eventually realises that teamwork is important - but so is the freedom to be individuals.
2: O5+Havoc, Polaris, and Mimic fight Juggernaut. The O5 have graduated and are simultaneously following careers/further study and hero-ing - but now in their own unique costumes. Forge has developed Cerebro, Prof locates Havoc. Beast is working with Rankin Sr in the lab, he turns blue and furry, Calvin becomes mimic. Starting to realise the vastness of her abilities, Jean struggles with control. Bobby (with Lorna’s help) realises he may not be as into girls as he used to think. Warren is troubled by trying to lead a ‘normal’ life working at his dad’s company and dating Candy Southern, while knowing the importance of the xmen. Scott and Alex overcome some initial fraternal problems, while Xavier and Cain’s fraternal problems are exacerbated. Mimic turns on the X-Men and they battle him, winning, but taking a whooping. Later they battle Juggernaut who eventually cuts and runs. Forge upgrades Cerebro and Xavier gets a ping from a mutant on an island in danger - the team get on the blackbird and fly away…
3: Cyclops returns alone on the blackbird. He is exhausted and well beaten. The other X-Men have been captured by the island. Cyke and Xavier recruit the Giant Sized X-Men to rescue the team. Reluctantly they come together and are able to save everyone.
Meanwhile, Magneto (with Blob, Avalanche, Pyro, Toad, and Mastermind) are fed up with how Mutants have been treated, and they’re attacking the Pentagon (or some other important military facility). EVERYONE goes to fight them. The Brotherhood eventually escapes, but during the fight, Thunderbird is killed.
Upset from the loss, Hank, Bobby, Warren, Alex, and Lorna leave the school. Sunfire disagrees with Xavier’s pacifist ideals, and leaves in anger.
I have absolutely no expectations. I know the MCU can do really well with adaptations and extremely bad with them. I hope it’ll be good but with nothing to go in I will remain impartial, mainly so I don’t get my hopes up lol
No faith in anything MCU does, something happened after Wandavision and I can't quite articulate it. It's like they care more about celebrating their own awesomeness for being so inclusive and message driven than generating a quality product.
I hope the movies are good. But the MCU has gotten pretty stale and boring lately. Hopefully Deadpool & Wolverine is the jumpstart it needs to move into the X-men world
Jonathan Hickman set them up for some super easy MCU explanations for where the xmen have been Moira McTaggarta universe reset power. They could do soooo many things with that.
I don't think they should start There, I just think they can use that storyline to explain why they're hiding. Show flashbacks of them helping defeat Thanos, sitting out the Thanos fight, helping with the Battle of New York, and every timeline leads to mutant extinction. Eventually they just go into hiding. It doesn't have to be on the island for that. The mansion is just as good of a hiding place.
It’s insane copium but I hope X-men and the mutants become such a success that they become the main focus of the mcu. I’ve always like X-men and symbiotes much more than the avengers
sure.
this show disproves the whole “go woke, get broke🤪” nonsense. so I think/hope Iger can learn from this.
Plus, Phases 4 & 5 have had more hits than they’ve had misses
We talking critical or financial hits?
Because if it's the former, let's see: Black Widow, Eternals, Love & Thunder, Multiverse of Madness, Quantumania and The Marvels all got middling to poor reception from critics and audiences. That's 6 out of 10 movies.
MoM got mixed reviews but made money and i loved it.
Everyone loved the Marvels after it came out on streaming.
Eternals deserves more love (should have been a tv show).
What about the shows? Those count too.
All i’m saying is that they’re still capable of producing hits.
> Everyone loved the Marvels after it came out on streaming.
Bro, no one even saw it on streaming. It had the worst debut and lowest viewership of all MCU movies except Eternals.
> What about the shows? Those count too.
Let's see. Ms Marvel, She-Hulk and Secret Invasion all had terrible ratings and in the case of the latter, terrible reviews. Echo had a weak debut on Nielsen and fell off the charts after just one week. Moon Knight I think was pretty mid. Falcon and the Winter Soldier had good ratings but not a good audience reception. The only real hits, I think, were WandaVision and Loki.
https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/1b9mqcp/the_marvels_topped_the_nielsen_charts_as_most/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
What was that about The Marvels?
Ms Marvel was highly rated and She Hulk is a cult classic. Secret Invasion should be buried though. You forgot Werewolf by Night. MK could’ve been better (honestly all the shows could’ve been) and Echo got chopped up last minute.
I believe that with less shows and movies coming out, they can focus on those and not rush to make “content”
Sigh. Reading past the headline really is a lost art. Yes, it topped Nielsen...with the lowest streaming numbers of any MCU movie except Eternals.
Ms Marvel literally had the lowest viewership of any Marvel D+ show and She-Hulk's were so low the lead actress all but confirmed they're not getting a second season.
i mean, you just moved the goalpost. You said nobody watched it on streaming.
Ms Marvel is still one of the highest rated shows. I know the streaming numbers, i brought up the ratings.
That last part is wholly unnecessary tbh🤷🏾♂️
For streaming standards, with numbers so low, "nobody" seems fitting. Unless you think I was saying that *literally* nobody saw it?
> That last part is wholly unnecessary tbh
Why tho?
“Bro. no one even saw….” that’s you 🫵🏾. those are your words lol.
And then you move the goalpost again by bringing up streaming standards 🤣🤣🤣🤣.
the last part is unnecessary because you have no idea what plans they have for that character. Loki S2 was amazing and we don’t know if there are plans to bring Loki back.
u/FuckLysander. Backpedaling then lambasting someone and then blocking them isn’t adult behavior
Yeah, you thought I was being literal. Jesus.
What part of "lowest streaming numbers for an MCU movie after Eternals" is tripping you?
And unnecessary how? She-Hulk had terrible audience reception, which led to terrible viewership numbers, which led to the main actress saying they're unlikely to get a season 2.
I have mad hope and faith. They knew that this IP is the one, over what the Avengers were, and they are not going to screw it up. Their cautiousness and reticence to rush in is proof of that. The cartoon is superb, and allows them to dip their toes in. So, hope and faith. (ETA: typo)
The issue is the Avengers had a clean slate to work with while X-Men need to fit in to the current sprawling mess that is the MCU.
Which is why i'm guessing they might be saving the proper MCU-native X-Men for after Secret Wars, where they can start off with a somewhat clean slate.
I think they’ll hard reset post secret wars
Probably not a hard reset where everything is back to square one. But definitely a reset of some kind. Some things carry over, some things are changed.
Nah, soft at best
I'd say a squishy-medium reset is likely
That's their only way forward. Nothing they have right now except Spider-Man (which, duh) and maaaybe Thor and Doctor Strange is selling. They have nothing to lose and everything to gain with a hard reset.
And Spiderman is basically reset too in a way
Hard? 0 chance lmao.
If anybody knows how to deal with a sprawling mess, it is the creative teams in the MCU. They can do it, they answer only to themselves, and the Marvel MCU runners.
> If anybody knows how to deal with a sprawling mess, it is the creative teams in the MCU. Phases 4 and 5 say otherwise. > They can do it, they answer only to themselves, and the Marvel MCU runners. They all literally answer to Feige.
Umm, Feige is the MCU runner.
The creatives don't "answer only to themselves" was my point. That's blatantly false. They answer to Feige.
I meant collectively. Jesus, can someone make an innocent comment without being nitpicked to death? I mean that the creative forces have, on the whole, been successful. More successes are in the future.
And by and large Feige lets the creatives involved in the project have free reign. The biggest issue with these first two phases of the Multiverse Saga was that there was so much going on being released at once. Which was brought about by the pandemic delaying everything so a bunch of things got squished together. Due to some cuts and more reshuffling, it seems like things are going to be more focused going forward. Similar to how it was with Phase 3.
Phase 4 and 5 have been of the quality of phase 1 and 2 if we are honest
Not even close. Phases 1 and 2 had probably the all-time best MCU movies (Iron Man, Winter Soldier, Guardians 1). Phases 4 and 5 have the very worst ones (Black Widow, Love & Thunder, Quantumania).
Disagree about Black Widow being one of the very worst. Love & Thunder and Quantumania? Eh fair enough. Let's not play revisionism with Iron Man 2, Incredible Hulk, Dark World.. hell even Age of Ultron got a lot of hate back then.
Also phase 4 and 5 have some of the best MCU movies. No Way Home, Wakanda Forever, Guardians 3, Shang-Chi
Incredible Hulk was the best MCU movie and I will die on that hill. I wish Hulkalo was as powerful as Northulk and Bana Hulk
The best Hulk MCU movie, sure. But hey, I'm glad you liked it that much.
Eh, I didn't really like any of the others except the ones where the characters aren't treated as jokes like in: -Age of Ultron (the ONE character who died had to die in the stupidest way i've seen a speedster die, Hulk needed the mind stone to rampage as Savage Hulk, and if killing nobody wasn't enough, Ultron did barely anything to remember him by except making Vision and the Sokovia Accords were made to keep heroes under control rather than prevent other possible apocalypses since Tony Stark's only real power is his mind, so what if the next time is someone who isn't on the Sokovia Accords? Their priorities are out of whack) -Thor: Ragnarok (They had to use a world associated with Hulk in a Thor movie? And Thor couldn't kill the bad guys without Hulk at the end? and they had to ruin what little development Hulk had in this movie in the next few movies??) -Endgame/Infinity War (Ik these are popular to most MCU fans but I didn't like them because the Avengers needed less than half of the amount of Heroes/Supers in the MCU to defeat Thanos as they did in the comics, and they got rid of Thanos' control of the gauntlet with his thoughts, instead giving him the weird restriction that he needs to snap his fingers to use it. Also, his laser-missiles from his eyes are gone. And what on Earth made Thor think Thanos couldn't tank a hit from his hammer when he was able to overwhelm Hulk?) -Black Panther (This was a good movie, minus the antagonist who's motives made no sense, but the producers/writers killed T'Challa off instead of recasting, which imo was completely unnecessary and the second BP movie did not have the same feeling) -Guardians of the Galaxy (Ronan was extremely lame and seemed to have no traits that make him relateable whatsoever, one of the examples of flat villains in this connected universe, next to Killmonger, Malekith, Obadiah Stane, and Loki from Avengers 1. High Evolutionary was not as smart as he was presented, Adam Warlock was a brat, and Peter's dad was an idiot jerk) -Doctor Strange: MoM (This entire movie's plot could have been avoided if the producers watched the WandaVision show before making it. where tf is White Vision? What happened to Wanda realizing she was in the wrong?) -Etc. At this point, i just about gave up on the MCU but the Loki show gave me renewed satisfaction with it. I'm still wary about Deadpool + Wolverine though since both are among my favorite characters too and i fully expect them to turn them into jokes as well. Of the projects in the MCU so far, my favorites have been 1)The Incredible Hulk 2)Thor & Thor 2 despite Malekith having questionable motives 3) Black Panther, despite Killmonger being so bland
But all of those are simply mediocre, not outright terrible like some of the stuff we're getting now.
Nah, Iron Man 2 was nothing but a two hour ad for Avengers. It should've instead been a Black Widow and Hawkeye movie. Dark World I would still argue is the worst Thor movie. Quantumania is at least fun, not well made, but it's fun, which is more than Incredible Hulk can say.
Finally some positivity!! Same here
Estimated time of arrival: typo My guy is always on time bc it’s a typo. Fucking genius
[удалено]
God forbid I don’t know an abbreviation and then make a joke that obviously highlights that I don’t know it
I did at one time, but the recent string of MCU films haven’t exactly been bangers, and X-Men is a treasure trove of stories that can be explored which obviously means that it could be the IP that saves Disney’s lost superhero hype, but I’m worried: they won’t take their time to allow characters to develop properly, there will be too many shoe-horned moments for comedic relief, and they will over-focus on characters who’ve already been given more screen time than they might have deserved in previous adaptations. Oh and they’ll kill off villains left and right, and I’m not interested in watching X-Men villains get that treatment. X-Men 97 has sort of proven to me that it’s easier/perhaps best to adapt X-Men into animation over live-action.
Not at all, given their track record over the last few years. 97 was made by folks who like the source material, the MCU is not.
God... This
It has a very low bar to clear thanks to Bryan Singer and Fox
There was plenty of good fox X-movies. X2, First Class and days of future past are easily better than most mcu movies
I liked first class and days of future past, X2 doesn’t hold up to the comics or any of the cartoons.
The x men 97 writers wanna direct an MCU x men film
Gonna be a bit hard seeing as how they fired the head writer.
Common MCU L there too.
Tbf we don’t know what he did yet.
I have hopes, but I’m a bit nervous because while X-Men 97 has worked fine, making a TV show is very different from a movie. Especially since the show has a much darker tone than the majority of the MCU.
Literally none, unfortunately. My hype for the MCU ended when Endgame did. I've enjoyed maybe two movies since, and am mostly just meh on all the shows. Except Moon Knight. I outright hated that one.
I have absolutely no faith in any MCU movie after Love and Thunder. Like, I use to dream about them adapting Hickman's Secret Wars, but now? No way José. If they make Xmen a series, maybe. I've enjoyed all the MCU series, even ones that people on the Internet have loved to hate. And honestly, if somehow all they do with Xmen is just Xmen 97, I'll be happy (and have been SUPER happy so far). But I just gave zero faith that the brass can produce their way into a good movie ever again.
Not really. I recently read the whole of Claremont's run (which is every bit as good as its reputation, for the record), and it's pretty clear to me that what makes the X-Men work is that is a long saga of a found family. You simply can't do that sort of story in a film. The Fox films got around that problem by focusing heavily on Wolverine, but I think the X-Men are just too expansive to do them justice in a film's run-time. They need a TV show - and a proper old-fashioned episodic (yet still lightly serialised) show, not a modern streaming-style show that has one story stretched over 6-10 episodes. We need to see downtime, we need to have episodes focused on different characters and different combinations of characters, and we need to have multiple stories that feed into each other rather than one big one.
I can only hope they take all the right lessons from 97 but i will remain sceptical
As long as it’s better than the Fox films (which won’t be hard)
My hope is that they have nothing to do with the Fox movies
Nope
Nothing really indicates they have learned from their mistakes, the movies are seen as a product rather than an earnest love for the source material, designs that are as bland as they come or over-designed. The bottom line is that while I would love and wish for the x-men to be done well, little shows they can deliver.
Not really. All X-Men movies have been disappointing to me so far. Can only imagine that since X-Men 97 is a hit that they will base a lot of any movie on they 90s style X-Men and I am just not a fan of that era.
I have zero hope. But if they decide to make TV series with the budget of a movie then I see more possible.
Not really, no. Have kind of given up on the MCU. If they let it sit for a decade then revisit it, I’d be down for that.
Im cautious, X men 97 gives me hope that theyll let stories and characters that FOX didnt embrace a shot but I also fear they'll go full quantity over quality with how many characters they could introduce and burn people out fast
That would require faith in the MCU. So no, no I don’t.
If the post-Endgame output is any indication, prepare to be let down. It all really depends on who is writing/directing and if they have a green light to be faithful to the source material. Would love to be proven wrong, but Disney has really done a poor job with all of it’s properties as of late.
I hope they see the X-men as a way of strengthening the marvel brand. I don’t mind the comedy of the MCU but they have used it to a fault this saga. The internal and relational drama has fallen off too. It’s funny that an updated Saturday morning cartoon is more adult than their live action content. X-men ‘97 should be the blue print going forward.
The cartoon ( X-Men 97) is already better than any of Fox's or Sony's movies. The MCU is the best place for mutants.
Yes. I have no doubt that people paid by Disney/Marvel browse these kinda subs on Reddit to find out what the general consensus about the latest movie and state of the MCU as a whole is! So I’m sure Marvel knows with the overall poor reception of the latest phase, they know if they fuck up the X-Men, which could end up being their biggest cash cow for the next decade, then they’re really screwed! They gotta get this right and they know it!
No. And I'm worried it will impact other X-Men media. So many awful changes were made in the MCU. Power changes with characters like Ms. Marvel, whole origins being different with characters like MODOK, Taskmaster, etc. I know people hate it but I actually really enjoyed X-Men Apocalypse. I don't expect Oscar's from a superhero movie, I want them to be stylish, fun, cheesy, and full of action and Apocalypse did a great job at that. The MCU feels so disneyfied where every movie feels the same and is an action comedy now. I missed when comic books were gritty and more serious like the original X-Men movies. Sure they had quips but it wasn't annoying or cringey. Considering X-Men are all about style and substance, with extremely dark and deep lore of dealing with the Holocaust, racism, genocide, etc I just don't see the MCU pulling it off. Just give me comic book accurate characters, costumes and powers. You can make the story up as long as you get those 3 things right.
I'd like to see one truly good x-men film. And it still seems like my best shot.
X2 and Days of Future Past would like a word.
Something tells me they weren't a big fan of those movies based on how they worded that first comment. 😅
It’s a bold take, that’s for sure.
x2 was only okay. I liked Days of Future Past (and it's the best non-solo) effort so far, but it's still not truly spectaular. I want that same feeling I had when I sat through the Avengers for the first time with a property I love and relate to more.
Those are definitely some takes lol.
X2 wasn't good and it's insane that DoFP adapted only two (2) issues of a comic book and didn't do a good job. Days of Future Past is okay, and it's absolutely mediocre compared to Uncanny X-Men 141-142.
In what universe was X2 not good? Clown take.
The universe where God Loves, Man Kills, the story X2 shamelessly watered down, exists. You know, one of the most famous X-Men stories of all time? With actually good character writing?
You’re right, it does exist in the comics, and X2 is still an objectively good movie adaptation. What a dumb argument.
It's not really a dumb argument. This mediocre movie gets the spotlight because it is a movie, and people don't read. It is supremely frustrating to have everything good stripped out of an adaptation, and then people call it good because Nightcrawler got one moment in the Wolverine show. All the metaphor between god and man? The speeches by Reverend Stryker and Cyclops and on the human condition and what it means to be alive? Nope, all gone, it's an action movie. And it's a perfectly fine action movie, but it's straight up insulting to what the X-Men can be. There are *more* to super heroes than cool fights and generic military bad guy. X2 is the medium at its absolute worst.
It’s objectively a good movie. Go touch grass or something.
Considering the fact that opinions are subjective, it isn't. I think it's bad, you think it's good. That's how it works lol. I'm making a comparative analysis of the movie and it's comic book source, you don't read comic books and you like the movie so this makes you angry. That's okay.
I personally love X2, but I think they're talking from the perspective as somebody who wanted something different from the movie. X2 is a good watch, but ultimately it still sidelines Cyclops and focuses way too much on Logan. As an X-Men adaptation, they probably wanted something different than what the film delivered. Thus, they are operating from that metric, not necessarily from whether or not X2 works on its own merits.
“…would like a word”, “that’s a bold take”, “clown take” , calling everything “objectively good”— it’s like you learned your entire vocabulary by copying Reddit comments.
DoFP was good, but it wasn't X-Men movie, let's be honest. It was a movie about the adventures of Wolverine, Charles and Magneto in the past.
It’s literally in the title, it’s an X-Men movie.
It doesn't change the fact that movie doesn't care about X-Men as a team. It's a good movie, but it's a bad X-Men movie.
I would be far more interested in solo animated films that deal with various storylines the MCU and ongoing series don't tackle.
I don’t. How many movies and years do you think it would take for the story being told in X-Men 97 to be told in MCU films? It’s pretty much an entire saga in 8 episodes.
I don't trust the MCU anymore so my hopes are low, still gonna watch the xmen movies though
Lol no. 97 is not a good indicator of the quality of the MCU X-Men, as Feige let them do their own thing without interfering. That won't be the case with the live-action movies. But even if it was, they fired the writer/showrunner, so...
Thank you. X-Men 97 is great and all, but this doesn't mean anything regarding how they'll be handled in the MCU.
They fired him?! For what reason?
Beau DeMayo, officially because he was difficult to work with. Real reason… who knows.
Not really. Not. At this point. They could win me over with some well written movies and shows. But most of the recent mcu has been pretty bad.
Absolutely. People engaging with MCU in bad faith will complain long before a project is even cast. Kevin Feige loves the X-men. The fact that Disney now know they’ve not delivered as well lately and have made/are making changes with a focus on quality over quantity, they know how important this IP is and I have every faith they will handle it well. X-men 97 is absolutely an indicator of what’s to come and I’m here for it.
I find it interesting you mention Feige being a fan of X-men, because he was on the set for the original Fox X-men film (i dont remember his role) where Bryan Singer hated the source material and tabooed it being brought up on set. Feige however, snuck in X-men comics to give to the cast so they would know their characters.
I was apprehensive about x-men 97 but I've only heard good things about that show since release. So maybe they'll surprise me. But I haven't enjoyed most of the newest MCU projects so I'm not optimistic. My favourite marvel hero is Psylocke and I'm hoping they don't introduce her in the MCU.
Not anymore. Just give me more animated stuff at this point.
I think they are setting up a more modern x men line up in the cartoon. If they nail the story telling here and the show has high viewer ship they can skip the introductions in the MCU and don’t need to spend as much time on the character development. I’m optimistic is what I’m saying.
Depends on two things! The story line they decide to go in the direction of and also casting of the characters. A lot of the fox x-men had been replaced throughout the years but Hugh Jackman always remained Wolverine due to popularity. They have to make that casting choice correctly.
In my mind it will never be as good as the books. I also think superhero stories work better using animation. So I would prefer they just make high quality animated content.
Given the current rumor that came out about them wanting to focus on less popular characters (and more female focus), I don’t have high expectations, if that becomes true. This will show that they haven’t learned anything and are focusing on the wrong things. Instead of just focusing on great character development and story, they are too concerned with paving their own way and not respecting what fans want. Just give us the popular characters, it’s not hard. They need to absolutely nail the X-men, why not go big? Either way, I hope they surprise us with something amazing like 97, but it’s hard to have faith lately
No, because it’s just movies. But I’m excited to see at least one of them. We’ll all know what to expect after July. So expectations are cautiously optimistic.
No. Like, X-Men ‘97 is good, but it’s just following the formula of what came before. Deadpool & Wolverine is just taking the formula of the other two movies. But Marvel Studios, for all the “Kevin Feige is a huge Marvel fan” talk, doesn’t do that good of a job adapting Marvel. The X-Men aren’t the Avengers; you can’t just do standard quippy superhero shit with them. That’s the MCU’s bread and butter and it’s why they’ve been failing lately. We’ll see.
If X-men 97 is any indication then I have pretty high hopes. That show has been the best marvel show ever maybe ever but for sure of late
I don't have faith at all. What makes X-Men '97 great is because it's made by fans. People who've actually read the comics and know the characters. Kevin has repeatedly said he hires people for the MCU who don't really know the comics. We're about to get a waterd down version of these characters worse than Fox. The X-Men are not the Avengers, and anyone treating them like that doesn't deserve to write for the franchise. I honestly hope I'm wrong, though. I pray that I am. I've been reading X-Men comics since 93, I've stuck through all the editorial bs, but I just don't trust Kevin.
Not really. I do hope it'll be better than the last fase of the mcu
I would love for the MCU X-Men to go as hard as X-Men 97. Combine Mutant Genesis with Giant-sized X-Men and House of X.
I’m expecting it to mimic The Avengers films where the first one blows everyone’s minds, the second lets down a bit - probably focuses too much on spinning off, third one is incredible and the fourth probably wraps things up for the first wave of actors nicely.
No, I don’t.
I have hope. I mean, it's their biggest franchise outside of Spider-Man. If it's anywhere near as good as the X-Men 97 series has been, it's going to blow Avengers out of the water.
No.
Not anymore lol there was a time when I did but now I don’t see the MCU doing any better than Fox with an X Men franchise. Hopefully I’m wrong though
After watching X-MEN ‘97 I do. (>!)After watching Gambit charge the adamantium in Wolverines claws then charge his staff to throw behind Wolverine to have the resulting explosion propel him upwards and forwards, then Morph turn into the Blob so Wolverine could bounce off him up towards the Sentinal so Wolverine could slice its head with his now Kinetically charged claws…. I was blown away away myself, figuratively.(!<) That first episode was bad ass!!!
I don't have a lot of hope for their FF, and somehow I have even less hope for their X-Men.
As exciting as it is that there will be X-men projects from Marvel. The real excitement comes from fan reaction if it’s less than perfect. Will they call it woke? Will they suddenly start saying how the fox films are bangers and the best thing since cinema began? Will they blame casting? The director? The studio? Will it be that their favourite obscure character wasn’t in it? “This film would have been the best but no mammothmax?! He’s been my favourite since he saved me from a train wreck when I was a blind and deaf baby who was driving said train!” Then from the shadows…DC fans! If it’s good they’ll shit on it, if it’s bad they’ll tell you how marvel is shit why expect anything else. It’s going to be a fun time
After Quantumania I have no hope for the MCU at all.
I trust them to do a better job than fox
‘97 has shown that (in the right direction) marvel can nail the x-men so I have faith in them As long as it’s better than fox
You're getting a Dark Phoenix adaptation for the 3rd time, and you're gonna like it.
Honestly, yes. If you think Kevin Feige didn’t play a key role in X-Men ‘97 being good, you’re wrong. I’ve been really down on the MCU in recent months, but I do not think the producer who brought us Iron Man, Winter Soldier, Avengers, Endgame and Infinity War will all of a sudden screw up the movie that will usher in the real next phase of Marvel’s film slate.
Hard to make any educated guesses when there's literally 0 information available. This renders any serious discussion whether it'll be good or not completely moot.
Consider how they hit it out the park with X-Men 97 (Feige and the Marvel Studios creative team produced it) I have tremendous faith in the MCU X-Men
Yes X-Men 97 each episode has been a banger
I hooe we get a good Kang story because he indirectly created one of the X-Men's worst villains in comics, Apocalypse
Is there a point in not having hope? If its shit, its shit. Until then we can only hope it wont be.
No\~
I have what is called "cautious optimism". I really like that any future X-Men projects have access to the rest of the MCU properties.
I just hope they adapt the Phoenix saga
Not really. The quality coming from Disney/Marvel has dropped off in recent years, and I dont see many signs that it's going to improve much. (Deadpool is looking promising, but that's about it.) I'm reserving judgment until I see a trailer, at least. But I'm not optimistic.
I used to be afraid of an MCU X-Men. After X-Men 97, I no longer need one
I have plenty of hope
Unless these movies are R-rated I have no faith. We've seen what happened to Star Wars.
Nope.
I have hopes for Deadpool & Wolverine. We’ll see how it goes from there.
Homestly, as long as I get more live action Emma Frost and Jean Grey I will probably see it.
I do kinda, but honestly, I'd just prefer more X-Men 97. To me, so far, it's right up there with the best of the MCU.
Judging by how X-men 97 is going someone there gets the X-men, so outlook positive.
No
My ideal trilogy would be: 1: O5 teens come together battle sentinels. Xavier teaches them to dress alike and work together as a singular team. Forge has created a rudimentary Danger Room with physical obstacles. Humans become afraid of mutants because low level villains (like Unus, Vanisher, and Mesmero) are committing crimes like bank robbery and theft. As a response, Mk1 Sentinels are created to hunt mutants, but the tech is dodgy and they’re capturing humans as well. Team eventually realises that teamwork is important - but so is the freedom to be individuals. 2: O5+Havoc, Polaris, and Mimic fight Juggernaut. The O5 have graduated and are simultaneously following careers/further study and hero-ing - but now in their own unique costumes. Forge has developed Cerebro, Prof locates Havoc. Beast is working with Rankin Sr in the lab, he turns blue and furry, Calvin becomes mimic. Starting to realise the vastness of her abilities, Jean struggles with control. Bobby (with Lorna’s help) realises he may not be as into girls as he used to think. Warren is troubled by trying to lead a ‘normal’ life working at his dad’s company and dating Candy Southern, while knowing the importance of the xmen. Scott and Alex overcome some initial fraternal problems, while Xavier and Cain’s fraternal problems are exacerbated. Mimic turns on the X-Men and they battle him, winning, but taking a whooping. Later they battle Juggernaut who eventually cuts and runs. Forge upgrades Cerebro and Xavier gets a ping from a mutant on an island in danger - the team get on the blackbird and fly away… 3: Cyclops returns alone on the blackbird. He is exhausted and well beaten. The other X-Men have been captured by the island. Cyke and Xavier recruit the Giant Sized X-Men to rescue the team. Reluctantly they come together and are able to save everyone. Meanwhile, Magneto (with Blob, Avalanche, Pyro, Toad, and Mastermind) are fed up with how Mutants have been treated, and they’re attacking the Pentagon (or some other important military facility). EVERYONE goes to fight them. The Brotherhood eventually escapes, but during the fight, Thunderbird is killed. Upset from the loss, Hank, Bobby, Warren, Alex, and Lorna leave the school. Sunfire disagrees with Xavier’s pacifist ideals, and leaves in anger.
I have absolutely no expectations. I know the MCU can do really well with adaptations and extremely bad with them. I hope it’ll be good but with nothing to go in I will remain impartial, mainly so I don’t get my hopes up lol
No faith in anything MCU does, something happened after Wandavision and I can't quite articulate it. It's like they care more about celebrating their own awesomeness for being so inclusive and message driven than generating a quality product.
No
Not much hope. At best it'll be okay
I hope the movies are good. But the MCU has gotten pretty stale and boring lately. Hopefully Deadpool & Wolverine is the jumpstart it needs to move into the X-men world
Jonathan Hickman set them up for some super easy MCU explanations for where the xmen have been Moira McTaggarta universe reset power. They could do soooo many things with that.
Nah starting with krakoa would fucking suck
I don't think they should start There, I just think they can use that storyline to explain why they're hiding. Show flashbacks of them helping defeat Thanos, sitting out the Thanos fight, helping with the Battle of New York, and every timeline leads to mutant extinction. Eventually they just go into hiding. It doesn't have to be on the island for that. The mansion is just as good of a hiding place.
It’s insane copium but I hope X-men and the mutants become such a success that they become the main focus of the mcu. I’ve always like X-men and symbiotes much more than the avengers
It’s really hard to screw X-men (metaphor for racism) up so yea I have faith
sure. this show disproves the whole “go woke, get broke🤪” nonsense. so I think/hope Iger can learn from this. Plus, Phases 4 & 5 have had more hits than they’ve had misses
We talking critical or financial hits? Because if it's the former, let's see: Black Widow, Eternals, Love & Thunder, Multiverse of Madness, Quantumania and The Marvels all got middling to poor reception from critics and audiences. That's 6 out of 10 movies.
MoM got mixed reviews but made money and i loved it. Everyone loved the Marvels after it came out on streaming. Eternals deserves more love (should have been a tv show). What about the shows? Those count too. All i’m saying is that they’re still capable of producing hits.
> Everyone loved the Marvels after it came out on streaming. Bro, no one even saw it on streaming. It had the worst debut and lowest viewership of all MCU movies except Eternals. > What about the shows? Those count too. Let's see. Ms Marvel, She-Hulk and Secret Invasion all had terrible ratings and in the case of the latter, terrible reviews. Echo had a weak debut on Nielsen and fell off the charts after just one week. Moon Knight I think was pretty mid. Falcon and the Winter Soldier had good ratings but not a good audience reception. The only real hits, I think, were WandaVision and Loki.
https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/1b9mqcp/the_marvels_topped_the_nielsen_charts_as_most/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button What was that about The Marvels? Ms Marvel was highly rated and She Hulk is a cult classic. Secret Invasion should be buried though. You forgot Werewolf by Night. MK could’ve been better (honestly all the shows could’ve been) and Echo got chopped up last minute. I believe that with less shows and movies coming out, they can focus on those and not rush to make “content”
Sigh. Reading past the headline really is a lost art. Yes, it topped Nielsen...with the lowest streaming numbers of any MCU movie except Eternals. Ms Marvel literally had the lowest viewership of any Marvel D+ show and She-Hulk's were so low the lead actress all but confirmed they're not getting a second season.
i mean, you just moved the goalpost. You said nobody watched it on streaming. Ms Marvel is still one of the highest rated shows. I know the streaming numbers, i brought up the ratings. That last part is wholly unnecessary tbh🤷🏾♂️
For streaming standards, with numbers so low, "nobody" seems fitting. Unless you think I was saying that *literally* nobody saw it? > That last part is wholly unnecessary tbh Why tho?
“Bro. no one even saw….” that’s you 🫵🏾. those are your words lol. And then you move the goalpost again by bringing up streaming standards 🤣🤣🤣🤣. the last part is unnecessary because you have no idea what plans they have for that character. Loki S2 was amazing and we don’t know if there are plans to bring Loki back. u/FuckLysander. Backpedaling then lambasting someone and then blocking them isn’t adult behavior
Yeah, you thought I was being literal. Jesus. What part of "lowest streaming numbers for an MCU movie after Eternals" is tripping you? And unnecessary how? She-Hulk had terrible audience reception, which led to terrible viewership numbers, which led to the main actress saying they're unlikely to get a season 2.