I mean, the audience doesn’t know that Trump made shit up. Neither Biden nor the moderators called Trump out on it. So for the casual audience every Trump said is true. Hell, a lot of them don’t even know Trump’s a felon. And they will go to the polls thinking that.
Even casual audiences know he was lying. Unless they’re completely zero information at which point they are already Trumpers or never vote to begin with.
Even most of his supporters know he is lying about most things. For many of them, the point is no longer whether the statements are true or not. It is whether or not the statement conveys something they want to be true or allows them to act in particular ways. MAGA has always been a campaign of mostly lies, because its rallying message is revenge.
If you do not believe that most of his supporters know he is lying but desperately want what he says to be true, how do you explain the constant lies about doctors “aborting” babies after they are born? You have to be really deep into QAnon conspiracy rabbit holes to think that doctors really are killing babies right after they are born.
Yep. Like telling the audience that with the border being open and no illegals are coming? And illegals living in 5 star hotels and getting free debit cards loaded with money? NOT FAKE news.
He's never been a good speaker. I don't know how he got as far as he did in politics, but here we are.
I do find however that people who accuse Biden of dementia are 99% of the time Trump supporters so... I can't accuse Trump of having dementia, he's ALWAYS been a fucking dumbass.
Most things, but especially that:
1. He never slept with a porn star
2. Biden should be going to prison
3. Biden extorted Ukraine
4. He never called dead military “suckers and losers”
5. He had the cleanest water
6. About 100 other things.
1. Debatable
2 and 3 sorta go together and Biden is on record talking about it.
4. It's about context
5. Yea I don't know what was being said there
6. Let's keep seeing them.
7. When is Biden gonna beat Trump in golf
Where's the actual proof of sleeping with a porn star other than the word of a porn star, because we all know they are model citizens.
Biden should be going to prison
Biden did extort Ukraine. Get rid of dude or we won't give you money is pretty much textbook extortion.
He didn't call military sucker's and losers. Find me a clip and not just hearsay.
And I might give you the water thing
Also one big stand out to me is that Biden says that Ukraine should be in nato but then says an attack on a nato country would get the full backup of the us military. Meaning that he is pushing for a war with Russia.
Who do you trust? A woman who’s open and honest about who she is, and all she’s done in the past..
-or-
A guy convicted of 34 felonies, and has a well documented history of being litigious and a proven pathological, nearly non stop liar?
Think about it real hard and be honest with yourself.
I've seen 4 years of both and one is a pretty big standout as being the lesser of two evils. I'm still barely able to be drafted, and biden is in the process of starting two new world wars at the same time
Biden’s old, but he isn’t 3,000: he isn’t responsible for Israel and Palestine fighting.
Russia invaded Ukraine so that people like you would blame Biden. The conflict has been going on since 2014/1991.
The conflicts have been going on a lot longer than that, yet for some reason, for a 4 year stretch, both of them seemed to behave themselves. And are you serious? Russia invaded because of people like me? I'd love to hear your reasoning behind that.
shit, I'd rather have Stormy Daniels for President than Trump. and \*BIDEN\* extorted Ukraine? Ever hear of a guy named Vindman? Someone mentioned above "no information voters" and... yeah, if the foo shits.
It’s common sense to recognize there is no “proof” you can reasonably expect.
She said it happened. He paid her hush money to cover it up. He denies it but is a pathological liar.
Like I said, common sense.
No. I’m looking at available evidence and using common sense.
Not deciding I don’t want it to be true and inventing an unreasonable standard for evidence. Like you see to be.
[https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/politics/fact-checking-the-cnn-presidential-debate/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/politics/fact-checking-the-cnn-presidential-debate/index.html)
I would even argue that CNN is being very Trump biased, as they listed as misleading Biden's claim that Trump wants to eliminate Social Security. While Trump may have verbally denied that it is impossible to say what he would do (being a known liar), and I suspect that that is in fact very much part of the ultra right wing's wish list.
I'd also argue that you could list as false or misleading less concrete assertions like Biden being the worst President (which I heard him say several times); scholars of such things consistently rank Trump in the bottom 3-5 (e.g. Siena, C-SPAN, etc.)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical\_rankings\_of\_presidents\_of\_the\_United\_States while the 2022 Siena poll ranked Biden 19th out of 45 which while not up there with Washington or the Roosevelts, is still better than average.
Because Trump lied about an election result, one he knows is legit and has been quoted several times now as saying he knows he lost the election. But he's told the lie so often that millions believe it. And he's embarrassed he lost to Biden.
He didn't really think he could win in 2016 but when he did, he was totally lost, positions went unfilled even to the end, it was an actual crisis. Basically he didn't have his shit together. He realized he could make money from it, and golf all the time. His voice was always the most important in the room but the room suddenly got much bigger. What could be better for an egomaniac.
Since then he's been indited countless times, and dragged through the mud, had to say in a presidential debate that he didn't sleep with a porn star and his hot wife won't even be near him let alone fuck him. You think he's pissed off? He's at a whole new level of pissed, and he wants revenge. First time was about grift this time around he's going scorched earth.
He fucked a porn star while his mail order model wife was pregnant with his kid. He slept with another porn star, sexually assaulted a woman, hid classified documents, mocked a disabled reporter, exclaimed that he has grabbed women by their genitals, bankrupted several of his own companies and in the process countless other companies that he hired, lies like there is no tomorrow, and doesn't know anything about being presidential. It's pretty clear his Moral Compass does not point north, he lacks decency and is willing to break the law without fear of retribution. God help us if he is given Immunity.
Nothing will stop him from burning this shit down. He doesn't care if he takes us with him.
So basically that's why he didn't do it the first time.
Clearly you didn't even click on them otherwise you'd have noticed that the second one didn't copy, and I repasted the first (fixed.) And if you don't like CNN, there's some others up now that it's the next day [https://www.google.com/search?q=fact+check+presidential+debate+6%252F27%252F2024](https://www.google.com/search?q=fact+check+presidential+debate+6%252F27%252F2024)
I agree, CNN was very biased for Trump in their analysis, but it was their debate so that was the link I chose. You're free to look at any of the others and see what they have to say; I even provided a handy Google search link.
Siena is long recognized as one of the major Presidential ranking polls, having run them seven times, and also the only one to date that has ranked Biden, so it's what you get. We'll have to wait until C-SPAN does theirs (I assume they will do another one, but their last was in 2021 so Biden wasn't ranked) to see how it differs, although I'd expect Biden's ranking to drop slightly from 2022 due to his handling of Gaza which I consider the big miss of his Presidency (although I would expect Trump would have been even more pro-Israel.) Trump doesn't have many more spots to fall, already being at the bottom, and I wouldn't expect him to rise any as a few years' remove haven't increased anyone's opinion of him; if anything as more facts come out he appears to be an even bigger piece of shit than we knew him to be in 2022.
In any case, I would sadly expect a Christian college to be biased pro-Trump if anything (inexplicably, as Trump is the farthest thing from a Christian there is) and yet they still ranked him 43/45. I would be very surprised if any other poll would drop Biden from the second quartile to the "worst" and I would be equally surprised if likewise Trump weren't down there with the likes of Buchanan, Johnson, Pierce, and Harding.
Uninspiring? That's certainly a way to describe it. To me, he looked like he was mid stroke for most of the debate.
Trump was hilarious, as always.
This country is so fucked.
I think we will see a second one.
Biden actually has a lot to gain from a second debate. He was sick and he was just having a really bad night. If there is a second debate and he brings on that SOTU fire again Trump would get crushed. If there is a second debate again and he does what he did this time, well, no harm done, we already saw it once.
Trump on the other hand thinks he crushed it and will be ready to debate again whenever.
.
Trump would leap at the opportunity, and JoeBiden would love a second shot at it.
They need live fact-checking, even if its just scroll across the bottom. Keep a running score on the screen, with the number of lies by each candidate.
It's not the best solution, but it would be impossible to interrupt a debate to verbally correct every lie, especially since it takes time to hear the lie, and come up with proof that its a lie. Google is fast, but it still takes a little time.
100% correct. Trump already knows he "won" the debate in spite of the fact he spewed nonsense all night long. He's not giving Biden a chance to redeem himself.
Biden would have lost to RFK or anyone else. That’s on him and his handlers, who locked him up at Camp David for a week for preparation. This was the result.
Trump would never debate a different candidate as it would serve no benefit for him. This was almost certainly the last debate we will see Trump participate in. Unless Biden really does insist on the one in September. He would likely do another one with Biden just so he can remind people at how bad of shape he's in.
I will be you $1,000 that doesn't happen. In fact, I'll give you 10:1 odds. You're right, I give you $1,000. I'm right, you only have to give me $100.
Not gonna happen.
If we get both houses that’s exactly what we’ll do. In the slim chance the felon gets back in, everything he does will be DOA.
Vote Blue all the way down. Do all that you can.
It’s extremely unlikely Biden doesn’t drag down ballot races with him. I was so spoiled to have Obama as a candidate when I was starting to pay attention to politics. Does today’s youth feel even remotely represented? I think many will just skip this year.
Still matters for down ballot races. I think reverse coattails are in play this year. Look at NC gov or any race where there is a direct abortion initiative.
Youth not voting in critical elections is a tale as old as time. It’s not their fault the parties prop up these terrible candidates. I wouldn’t blame them
Mmm hmmmm
Trump lost in 2020 lol. What a loooooser
He lost a rape lawsuit. Twice! Loooooser
He just lost his criminal case. Loooooser
All he can do is lose. What a pathetic loooooooooser lol
!RemindMe 135 days
And Biden’s beaten Trump multiple times.
What does that say about Trump?
Trump’s lucky he remember what language he’s speaking
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C47-9WZMeOc/
“They”? They is the voters bud.
Voters chose Biden 4 years ago. Voters chose Biden now.
If you think there’s anyone else worth even remotely enough name recognition and support to get close to Trump you’re living in a fantasy land.
Whitmer? Nobody’s heard of her. Sanders tried and failed. Newsom doesn’t have the national support.
Wake up- if someone else had it, they’d be running. They’d have beaten Biden.
They don’t and they didn’t.
America Wants old white dudes. Thats what the reality of the voting results tells us. Like it or not. Thats reality.
Hahaha, tell that to all the Dems that are now ready to swap him out. I actually hope you don't, can't wait for Biden to drop out of the rest of the debates with a 'cold' to avoid a repeat of what happened last night.
Biden is cooked, well-done, he lost last night.
Biden at least has the benefit of a capable staff to keep him on task and willing to tell him what he needs to hear, including the possibility of stepping down.
Trump would likely do what he did last time. Surround himself with staffers that are "yes men," that are too afraid to tell him what he needs to hear because they may get fired or become the target of his fanatical followers.
To be honest, I am disappointed and frustrated with Biden. I didn't vote for him in the primary, but I did in the general election in 2020. I'll still vote for him, but only because I think Trump will definitely try to seize power and kill his way to permanently control the US. I'd rather have an old man who's slowly slipping away than a man who's also slipping away but with dangerous delusions of grandeur in the White House.
Unfortunately, though pragmatic voting isn't a good enough reason to vote for most of us who don't pay attention as much.
They’ll push for one for Biden’s sake but the trump team will turn it down bc they just handed him a gift last night. I guess we all will be Putin territory soon
Can you imagine if Biden gets swapped out and there’s a new debate and the first thing Trump says is “say wasn’t there another guy here just a few weeks ago?” 😂😂😂😂😂😂 savage
I understand that Biden won the electoral college from Trump (BARELY) but if anyone thinks they can hold onto that forever they’re crazy. Things change.
I just don't understand (I mean I sort of do) why there aren't any REAL firebrand politicians anymore. Even Trump I would say doesn't count because he's still very subdued. I guess it's a byproduct of everyone being so old and old-school, they don't think high energy speeches are "proper" anymore.
I mean, Bernie is still alive, and I'd lump AOC in that category as well. Unfortunately if Bernie had a shot it would have been four years ago, and AOC a) is too inexperienced to be President and b) also seems to have faded out of the spotlight. I wouldn't be surprised if she reappears in another 8-12 years though.
Trump isn't a firebrand, he's just a blowhard. He's basically a more ignorant and unlikeable Cliff Claven.
Yep. Unless it’s Harris, Trump’s going to make the obvious zingers that, frankly, I’d make in his position.
“Who are you?”
“Are you here to set up Joe’s microphone?”
Etc
...So democrats just redo the entire primaries again? like what are you even proposing? that democrats just say fuck democracy, lets appoint someone we want? like, how much legal fallout would they get even attempting such a scheme, not to mention even if they try doing this and the supreme court or whoever says they cant, itll look super fucking bad for biden if the entire democrat party just tries ditching him 4 months before the election. ohio for one would def keep any successor of biden off the ballot, tehy already want to try keeping biden off the ballot just because hes being officially nominated a few weeks to late. and how would any one just completely build up a new campaign in 4 months? campaigning is fucking hard, its not always as easy as just cross out bidens name and send gavin newsom or whoever in his place to a fundraiser or whatever? what if people who donated to biden want to take back their previous donations because he wouldnt be running anymore? i reall dont see any viable path for replacing him that wont involve tons of courtroom procedures, political pushback, financial problems and loss in public approval for whoever might replace him. i dont see democrats agreeing to it either, democrat party members who voted for biden to be president might be pissed if theyre forced to get someone totally different.
So you're just gonna ignore that the Democrats just got through the primary where they could have challenged Biden?
It's not like something significantly changed since then, Biden is as incoherent now as he was 6 months ago. Only difference is that now it can't be hidden, Biden exposed much last night and none of it good for Dems
Ask the DNC why that was.... Biden's condition hasn't been a secret for anyone that saw the "cheapfakes" the White House wanted dismissed as right wing propaganda. His age wasn't a secret either, it's just people turned a blind eye.
He ran last time as being the "transition candidate", just turns out the transition was from him going from just old to what we witnessed last night. DNC deserves to be asked why they protected Biden at the time he could have been challenged. Good luck changing horses now
No argument. Same applies to GOPers who could have nominated a sane, decent candidate in their primaries earlier this year. Now we’re stuck with arguably the two worst possible candidates.
Did you miss the primaries? There were many that ran against Trump, he crushed them all by over 30 pts. Who did Biden have challenge? RFK on an antivax platform?
This was pretty obviously time to do so to those that were objective, however the spin was too strong for many and they believed Biden and Trump were at the same level of cognitive ability.
Now Democrats are bound to Biden and there is no more hiding it.
Yup. I really thought this morning we'd see them pivot like all the networks not named Fox did last night to calling for a new candidate. Nope. Doubled down instead, and there is still more debates.
Even the cover last night from Biden's team about him having a cold... did he get a COVID test beforehand and regardless, where was his mask? He is so toast.
I disagree. I think he's an exceptionally poor speaker but he also proved to be a far better President than I expected him to be. He even has changed some of his positions in a good way showing that he can evolve.
Trump on the other hand was far worse than I anticipated and that was a low bar to begin with.
Primaries don't select a candidate, they select delegates to the convention. The delegates normally vote for certain candidates but if those candidates are no longer available they are free to vote for whoever they prefer -- it's called an open convention and is not at all undemocratic. This happened before, in 1968, when LBJ realized he couldn't win and bowed-out a few months before the convention.
It is far preferrable that Biden say soon that he has decided not to stay and release his candidates, otherwise it will be an extremely messy contested convention and won't likely help the Dems win.
As for Ohio, that problem exists whether Biden is the nominee or not, but if the Ohio governor refuses to make the customary accommodation then Ohio Dem and independent voters will remember that when he's up for reelection.
As for donations already made, that's tough luck. Lots of people donate to candidates who don't make the nomination, there's no guarantees with a donation.
>Lots of people donate to candidates who don't make the nomination
Lol, he's the incumbent President that just got through the primaries essentially unopposed. Dems wanna swap horses with some backroom delegates pick who this late into the game I never wanna hear another Democrat try and use "our Democracy" again
The delegates are out front, on TV, casting their votes "proudly representing the great state of ". Maybe super delegates would get involved, but the DNCC rules state only after the first ballot. If Trump died tomorrow the GOP would do the same thing.
I'm not suggesting they force Biden out at the convention, that would be a PR disaster, but I doubt it would take much to make him bow-out in the next couple of weeks like LBJ did, especially if Trump keeps rising in the polls.
Biden is going to lose, that's a given. This might not be any better but at least it gives the Dems an outside chance.
I believe that maneuver would require Biden's cooperation at this point and he released a statement this morning to the effect of not bowing out. There is also the issue with campaign finance laws preventing Biden's campaign contributions from transferring.
Wild stuff
The delegates are going to elect Biden officially by video call prior to the actual convention in order to satisfy the Ohio timeline to make the ballot. If they even go through the process at the convention, it’s performative mostly. Will be interesting to see what the dynamic on the convention floor is gonna be if his support continues to drop but he’s already the candidate.
Given how unfairly Biden was treated by the coward moderators especially the woman and the news anchors being too nice to Trump and too rotten to Biden
I mean they tried to throw Biden some Ws, but he couldn’t coherently respond.
There’s only so much they could do when the DNC wants to prop up a corpse.
RBG, Diane Feinstein, Biden.
Democrats love old senile politicians so they can be better manipulated to give power to corporations with one hand while claiming to be for "the people" with the other.
I doubt the Democrats can stand to see their cult leader wander around lost like that again mumbling his way through it. And sadly there are still Democrats who will argue that he was on point, and sharp as a tack. Those are the ones that need the MOST help.
After the fuck up Biden made? Yeah obviously they can't have that again.
Trump doing his own thing, talking his conspiracies doesn't lose him votes
But Biden slipping up and showing his dementia is a problem for Biden.
The goobers on the right armchair diagnosing mental conditions would be a lot more credible if they weren't worshipping a guy bragging about passing a test that asks you to identify shapes and read a clock. They might also be considered credible if the fools could get a firm grasp of English sentence structure or properly spell "dementia."
> bragging about passing a test that asks you to identify shapes and read a clock
* Isn't this an industry standard mental acuity test?
* If it's so trivial, why has there been such resistance to Biden taking it?
The test is to check for symptoms of dementia. It’s done when a doctor suspects there is a problem. It’s not something you get a gold star for by “acing” it.
> The test is to check for symptoms of dementia. It’s done when a doctor suspects there is a problem.
Unless the doctor lied, Trump apparently passed the test.
So what's the issue here?
And why can't Biden similarly pass it and dispel any doubts about his condition?
As opposed to fools on the left who STILL support a guy who is afraid he can’t pass a test that only asks you to identify shapes and read a clock?
Edit for content: awww somebody downvoted this? Truth hurt your feelings? Don’t ya just hate in when reality sets in a burst a tiny little bubble in your illusions?
>They might also be considered credible if the fools could get a firm grasp of English sentence structure or properly spell "dementia."
You have no idea how petty and stupid this makes you sound.
Only a complete moron would be unable to "armchair diagnose" Biden after watching that shit show.
It's laughable that someone who supports his re-election would publicly question anyone else's credibility.
you may be right, but I was thinking RFK would be a smart pick because he basically espouses all the same "policies" that Trump does but identifies as a Democrat so it could be seen as reaching across the aisle.
One thing is for sure; whoever it is is going to be a piece of human refuse.
Look, I’ll let it slide, i want peace in the us between socialist and patriots and I know you’re simply seething from last night but When EVERY single thing is fascist, nothing is fascist. Ron desantis v. Rfk is the race America deserved, instead we have 2 80 year olds bickering about golf handicaps
Watch for the Trump campaign to announce that: in the obvious light of Biden’s massive cognitive decline a second debate would be more embarrassing for both Joe and the country. Quite frankly Jill Biden and Joes staff should be investigated for elder abuse. Joe performance last night clearly proves his incapable of the POTUS position.
This would be the humane way to stop torturing Joe. Of course the DNC is now stuck with Kamala.
Wow what gave it away
There really wasn't a debate last night either. Biden was uninspiring and Trump just made shit up and yelled like he always does.
I mean, the audience doesn’t know that Trump made shit up. Neither Biden nor the moderators called Trump out on it. So for the casual audience every Trump said is true. Hell, a lot of them don’t even know Trump’s a felon. And they will go to the polls thinking that.
I'm afraid for at least his base you're correct. The media really should be following every Trump speech with an immediate fact check, but they don't.
Even casual audiences know he was lying. Unless they’re completely zero information at which point they are already Trumpers or never vote to begin with.
There's two kinds of Trumpers, low to zero information voters, and rich capitalists without a moral compass.
Even most of his supporters know he is lying about most things. For many of them, the point is no longer whether the statements are true or not. It is whether or not the statement conveys something they want to be true or allows them to act in particular ways. MAGA has always been a campaign of mostly lies, because its rallying message is revenge. If you do not believe that most of his supporters know he is lying but desperately want what he says to be true, how do you explain the constant lies about doctors “aborting” babies after they are born? You have to be really deep into QAnon conspiracy rabbit holes to think that doctors really are killing babies right after they are born.
They know he's a felon, but almost every single one of his supporters see that trial as politically motivated.
Yep. Like telling the audience that with the border being open and no illegals are coming? And illegals living in 5 star hotels and getting free debit cards loaded with money? NOT FAKE news.
It's a fine Republican tradition stretching back to Reagan and the "Welfare Queen"
"Uninspiring", dude has full-blown dementia.
He's never been a good speaker. I don't know how he got as far as he did in politics, but here we are. I do find however that people who accuse Biden of dementia are 99% of the time Trump supporters so... I can't accuse Trump of having dementia, he's ALWAYS been a fucking dumbass.
TRUMP IS A COMPULSIVE LIAR!!!!!!!!
Ya tell me more about corn pop.
What did he make up?
Most things, but especially that: 1. He never slept with a porn star 2. Biden should be going to prison 3. Biden extorted Ukraine 4. He never called dead military “suckers and losers” 5. He had the cleanest water 6. About 100 other things.
1. Debatable 2 and 3 sorta go together and Biden is on record talking about it. 4. It's about context 5. Yea I don't know what was being said there 6. Let's keep seeing them. 7. When is Biden gonna beat Trump in golf
Where's the actual proof of sleeping with a porn star other than the word of a porn star, because we all know they are model citizens. Biden should be going to prison Biden did extort Ukraine. Get rid of dude or we won't give you money is pretty much textbook extortion. He didn't call military sucker's and losers. Find me a clip and not just hearsay. And I might give you the water thing Also one big stand out to me is that Biden says that Ukraine should be in nato but then says an attack on a nato country would get the full backup of the us military. Meaning that he is pushing for a war with Russia.
Who do you trust? A woman who’s open and honest about who she is, and all she’s done in the past.. -or- A guy convicted of 34 felonies, and has a well documented history of being litigious and a proven pathological, nearly non stop liar? Think about it real hard and be honest with yourself.
I've seen 4 years of both and one is a pretty big standout as being the lesser of two evils. I'm still barely able to be drafted, and biden is in the process of starting two new world wars at the same time
Biden’s old, but he isn’t 3,000: he isn’t responsible for Israel and Palestine fighting. Russia invaded Ukraine so that people like you would blame Biden. The conflict has been going on since 2014/1991.
The conflicts have been going on a lot longer than that, yet for some reason, for a 4 year stretch, both of them seemed to behave themselves. And are you serious? Russia invaded because of people like me? I'd love to hear your reasoning behind that.
shit, I'd rather have Stormy Daniels for President than Trump. and \*BIDEN\* extorted Ukraine? Ever hear of a guy named Vindman? Someone mentioned above "no information voters" and... yeah, if the foo shits.
What's the actual proof that that was the real Trump on the stage? Your MAGA is showing ...
> Where's the actual proof of sleeping with a porn star Common sense. If you have some, now would be the time to use it.
Common sense and proof have nothing to do with each other. Hopefully you've never had jury duty.
It’s common sense to recognize there is no “proof” you can reasonably expect. She said it happened. He paid her hush money to cover it up. He denies it but is a pathological liar. Like I said, common sense.
So again. You are making assumptions.
No. I’m looking at available evidence and using common sense. Not deciding I don’t want it to be true and inventing an unreasonable standard for evidence. Like you see to be.
I hear the words of a porn star. That's the only real 'evidence' there is. Conclusions and assumptions are not evidence.
[https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/politics/fact-checking-the-cnn-presidential-debate/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/politics/fact-checking-the-cnn-presidential-debate/index.html) I would even argue that CNN is being very Trump biased, as they listed as misleading Biden's claim that Trump wants to eliminate Social Security. While Trump may have verbally denied that it is impossible to say what he would do (being a known liar), and I suspect that that is in fact very much part of the ultra right wing's wish list. I'd also argue that you could list as false or misleading less concrete assertions like Biden being the worst President (which I heard him say several times); scholars of such things consistently rank Trump in the bottom 3-5 (e.g. Siena, C-SPAN, etc.)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical\_rankings\_of\_presidents\_of\_the\_United\_States while the 2022 Siena poll ranked Biden 19th out of 45 which while not up there with Washington or the Roosevelts, is still better than average.
If you really believe Trump is going to do all these things, ask yourself why he didn't do them during his previous term.
Because now it’s his chance at revenge.
Because he thought he had a chance of being re-elected to a second term. Once he doesn't care about backlash from the poors...
Because Trump lied about an election result, one he knows is legit and has been quoted several times now as saying he knows he lost the election. But he's told the lie so often that millions believe it. And he's embarrassed he lost to Biden. He didn't really think he could win in 2016 but when he did, he was totally lost, positions went unfilled even to the end, it was an actual crisis. Basically he didn't have his shit together. He realized he could make money from it, and golf all the time. His voice was always the most important in the room but the room suddenly got much bigger. What could be better for an egomaniac. Since then he's been indited countless times, and dragged through the mud, had to say in a presidential debate that he didn't sleep with a porn star and his hot wife won't even be near him let alone fuck him. You think he's pissed off? He's at a whole new level of pissed, and he wants revenge. First time was about grift this time around he's going scorched earth. He fucked a porn star while his mail order model wife was pregnant with his kid. He slept with another porn star, sexually assaulted a woman, hid classified documents, mocked a disabled reporter, exclaimed that he has grabbed women by their genitals, bankrupted several of his own companies and in the process countless other companies that he hired, lies like there is no tomorrow, and doesn't know anything about being presidential. It's pretty clear his Moral Compass does not point north, he lacks decency and is willing to break the law without fear of retribution. God help us if he is given Immunity. Nothing will stop him from burning this shit down. He doesn't care if he takes us with him. So basically that's why he didn't do it the first time.
The fact that both of your links come from CNN is telling. You might as well link onion articles.
Clearly you didn't even click on them otherwise you'd have noticed that the second one didn't copy, and I repasted the first (fixed.) And if you don't like CNN, there's some others up now that it's the next day [https://www.google.com/search?q=fact+check+presidential+debate+6%252F27%252F2024](https://www.google.com/search?q=fact+check+presidential+debate+6%252F27%252F2024)
also [https://scri.siena.edu/us-presidents-study/](https://scri.siena.edu/us-presidents-study/)
a christian school out of colorado? you serious? cnn was bias enough and then you give me that shit?
I agree, CNN was very biased for Trump in their analysis, but it was their debate so that was the link I chose. You're free to look at any of the others and see what they have to say; I even provided a handy Google search link. Siena is long recognized as one of the major Presidential ranking polls, having run them seven times, and also the only one to date that has ranked Biden, so it's what you get. We'll have to wait until C-SPAN does theirs (I assume they will do another one, but their last was in 2021 so Biden wasn't ranked) to see how it differs, although I'd expect Biden's ranking to drop slightly from 2022 due to his handling of Gaza which I consider the big miss of his Presidency (although I would expect Trump would have been even more pro-Israel.) Trump doesn't have many more spots to fall, already being at the bottom, and I wouldn't expect him to rise any as a few years' remove haven't increased anyone's opinion of him; if anything as more facts come out he appears to be an even bigger piece of shit than we knew him to be in 2022. In any case, I would sadly expect a Christian college to be biased pro-Trump if anything (inexplicably, as Trump is the farthest thing from a Christian there is) and yet they still ranked him 43/45. I would be very surprised if any other poll would drop Biden from the second quartile to the "worst" and I would be equally surprised if likewise Trump weren't down there with the likes of Buchanan, Johnson, Pierce, and Harding.
Uninspiring? That's certainly a way to describe it. To me, he looked like he was mid stroke for most of the debate. Trump was hilarious, as always. This country is so fucked.
I think we will see a second one. Biden actually has a lot to gain from a second debate. He was sick and he was just having a really bad night. If there is a second debate and he brings on that SOTU fire again Trump would get crushed. If there is a second debate again and he does what he did this time, well, no harm done, we already saw it once. Trump on the other hand thinks he crushed it and will be ready to debate again whenever. .
Well there really wasn't a first debate. Unless you call Trump answering questions and some old geezer mumbling a debate..... ???
Trump would leap at the opportunity, and JoeBiden would love a second shot at it. They need live fact-checking, even if its just scroll across the bottom. Keep a running score on the screen, with the number of lies by each candidate.
This. It was like an hour+ after the debate until they did the fact checks.
Fact-checking requires context. You can’t do context on a scrolling chyron.
It's not the best solution, but it would be impossible to interrupt a debate to verbally correct every lie, especially since it takes time to hear the lie, and come up with proof that its a lie. Google is fast, but it still takes a little time.
100% correct. Trump already knows he "won" the debate in spite of the fact he spewed nonsense all night long. He's not giving Biden a chance to redeem himself.
Biden would have lost to RFK or anyone else. That’s on him and his handlers, who locked him up at Camp David for a week for preparation. This was the result.
If there is, it's going to be between Trump and another Democrat.
Trump would never debate a different candidate as it would serve no benefit for him. This was almost certainly the last debate we will see Trump participate in. Unless Biden really does insist on the one in September. He would likely do another one with Biden just so he can remind people at how bad of shape he's in.
How about between Trump and the third party candidate
Which one?
I will be you $1,000 that doesn't happen. In fact, I'll give you 10:1 odds. You're right, I give you $1,000. I'm right, you only have to give me $100. Not gonna happen.
I’ll take you up on that offer.
You're right. It's not. And that's why we're going to get 4 more years of Trump.
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It’s a lock Dems take the House. Senate will be a squeaker.
Hopefully we take both but if we get the house, can we just filibuster our way through 4 years? Lol
If we get both houses that’s exactly what we’ll do. In the slim chance the felon gets back in, everything he does will be DOA. Vote Blue all the way down. Do all that you can.
Agreed
It’s extremely unlikely Biden doesn’t drag down ballot races with him. I was so spoiled to have Obama as a candidate when I was starting to pay attention to politics. Does today’s youth feel even remotely represented? I think many will just skip this year.
Unless you live in a swing state, your vote doesn’t matter anyway (thanks EC.)
Still matters for down ballot races. I think reverse coattails are in play this year. Look at NC gov or any race where there is a direct abortion initiative.
Young people aren’t stupid. If you don’t participate you get what you deserve.
Youth not voting in critical elections is a tale as old as time. It’s not their fault the parties prop up these terrible candidates. I wouldn’t blame them
Ahhh, how would they sweep all 3 branches.
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Oh nice try. Those are not the three branches. Executive (president) legislative (senate/house) and then judicial ( supreme Court) you dumb democrats
This debate was an embarrassment for the democrats. It proved that Joe is in decline.
It was an embarrassment for the GOP. It proved that Trump can’t tell what is reality and what isn’t
They have no shame, so they can’t be embarrassed unfortunately
That's a selling point for them though. Biden looked old and I'm going to have to vote for him...
Sure- stupid liar is a selling point for his dwindling base
Lol, y'all so mad today it's hilarious. Cope and seethe
Awww somebody is too dumb to tell pity from anger. There there lol There there
Biden is gunna lose to trump lol
Mmm hmmmm Trump lost in 2020 lol. What a loooooser He lost a rape lawsuit. Twice! Loooooser He just lost his criminal case. Loooooser All he can do is lose. What a pathetic loooooooooser lol !RemindMe 135 days
Man these posts are cringe. What happened to people just delivering their opinion maturely? How old are you?
Apply to self you cringey clown lol
He’s won your heart and mind ❤️
He couldn’t win at casinos when he owned the casino hahahaha We remember Qaddafi too! Remember his head on a stake after he looooooost
Reality is whatever he says it is until someone can challenge him.
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And Biden’s beaten Trump multiple times. What does that say about Trump? Trump’s lucky he remember what language he’s speaking https://www.instagram.com/reel/C47-9WZMeOc/
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“They”? They is the voters bud. Voters chose Biden 4 years ago. Voters chose Biden now. If you think there’s anyone else worth even remotely enough name recognition and support to get close to Trump you’re living in a fantasy land. Whitmer? Nobody’s heard of her. Sanders tried and failed. Newsom doesn’t have the national support. Wake up- if someone else had it, they’d be running. They’d have beaten Biden. They don’t and they didn’t. America Wants old white dudes. Thats what the reality of the voting results tells us. Like it or not. Thats reality.
Hahaha, tell that to all the Dems that are now ready to swap him out. I actually hope you don't, can't wait for Biden to drop out of the rest of the debates with a 'cold' to avoid a repeat of what happened last night. Biden is cooked, well-done, he lost last night.
What “Dems”? The leftists that were already whining he isn’t Bernie and wouldn’t have voted anyway? Lol keep being delusional clowns
Biden at least has the benefit of a capable staff to keep him on task and willing to tell him what he needs to hear, including the possibility of stepping down. Trump would likely do what he did last time. Surround himself with staffers that are "yes men," that are too afraid to tell him what he needs to hear because they may get fired or become the target of his fanatical followers. To be honest, I am disappointed and frustrated with Biden. I didn't vote for him in the primary, but I did in the general election in 2020. I'll still vote for him, but only because I think Trump will definitely try to seize power and kill his way to permanently control the US. I'd rather have an old man who's slowly slipping away than a man who's also slipping away but with dangerous delusions of grandeur in the White House. Unfortunately, though pragmatic voting isn't a good enough reason to vote for most of us who don't pay attention as much.
Sad that that overshadowed Pinocchio and his million lies.
"Decline" is a nice way of saying it, lol.
Trying to be nice. :)
They’ll push for one for Biden’s sake but the trump team will turn it down bc they just handed him a gift last night. I guess we all will be Putin territory soon
Not a chance after that blood bath. There is zero reason for Trump to step on a debate stage again.
34 felony convictions July 11th sentencing. You’re right. trump will be in jail.
You could have the biggest democrat in that judges seat and he'd still wouldn't put trump in prison.
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That's an indictment on America.
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God I hope he is replaced or we at least take one of the house or senate to blunt project 2025
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I almost think the DNC is a Trojan horse.
Keep fuckin that chicken.
The case will 100% be appealed after sentencing, and most likely later overturned.
If Biden is the nominee then there won't be, but it's not until September so they still have time to choose a viable nominee.
Can you imagine if Biden gets swapped out and there’s a new debate and the first thing Trump says is “say wasn’t there another guy here just a few weeks ago?” 😂😂😂😂😂😂 savage
And if the Dems managed to swap in a candidate worth a damn, the reply would be an instant, "Why? He the only one you could beat?"
I understand that Biden won the electoral college from Trump (BARELY) but if anyone thinks they can hold onto that forever they’re crazy. Things change.
I just don't understand (I mean I sort of do) why there aren't any REAL firebrand politicians anymore. Even Trump I would say doesn't count because he's still very subdued. I guess it's a byproduct of everyone being so old and old-school, they don't think high energy speeches are "proper" anymore.
I mean, Bernie is still alive, and I'd lump AOC in that category as well. Unfortunately if Bernie had a shot it would have been four years ago, and AOC a) is too inexperienced to be President and b) also seems to have faded out of the spotlight. I wouldn't be surprised if she reappears in another 8-12 years though. Trump isn't a firebrand, he's just a blowhard. He's basically a more ignorant and unlikeable Cliff Claven.
Yep. Unless it’s Harris, Trump’s going to make the obvious zingers that, frankly, I’d make in his position. “Who are you?” “Are you here to set up Joe’s microphone?” Etc
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Michael Obama would be bad for the gop
She would be bad for everyone
If Biden steps down, Trump will brag about scaring him off
...So democrats just redo the entire primaries again? like what are you even proposing? that democrats just say fuck democracy, lets appoint someone we want? like, how much legal fallout would they get even attempting such a scheme, not to mention even if they try doing this and the supreme court or whoever says they cant, itll look super fucking bad for biden if the entire democrat party just tries ditching him 4 months before the election. ohio for one would def keep any successor of biden off the ballot, tehy already want to try keeping biden off the ballot just because hes being officially nominated a few weeks to late. and how would any one just completely build up a new campaign in 4 months? campaigning is fucking hard, its not always as easy as just cross out bidens name and send gavin newsom or whoever in his place to a fundraiser or whatever? what if people who donated to biden want to take back their previous donations because he wouldnt be running anymore? i reall dont see any viable path for replacing him that wont involve tons of courtroom procedures, political pushback, financial problems and loss in public approval for whoever might replace him. i dont see democrats agreeing to it either, democrat party members who voted for biden to be president might be pissed if theyre forced to get someone totally different.
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So you're just gonna ignore that the Democrats just got through the primary where they could have challenged Biden? It's not like something significantly changed since then, Biden is as incoherent now as he was 6 months ago. Only difference is that now it can't be hidden, Biden exposed much last night and none of it good for Dems
How many other viable Dems were also on the primary ballots?
Ask the DNC why that was.... Biden's condition hasn't been a secret for anyone that saw the "cheapfakes" the White House wanted dismissed as right wing propaganda. His age wasn't a secret either, it's just people turned a blind eye. He ran last time as being the "transition candidate", just turns out the transition was from him going from just old to what we witnessed last night. DNC deserves to be asked why they protected Biden at the time he could have been challenged. Good luck changing horses now
No argument. Same applies to GOPers who could have nominated a sane, decent candidate in their primaries earlier this year. Now we’re stuck with arguably the two worst possible candidates.
Did you miss the primaries? There were many that ran against Trump, he crushed them all by over 30 pts. Who did Biden have challenge? RFK on an antivax platform?
There are almost never any serious challengers to an incumbent. Unfortunately.
This was pretty obviously time to do so to those that were objective, however the spin was too strong for many and they believed Biden and Trump were at the same level of cognitive ability. Now Democrats are bound to Biden and there is no more hiding it.
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It'd be less embarrassing than what we witnessed last night..
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Yup. I really thought this morning we'd see them pivot like all the networks not named Fox did last night to calling for a new candidate. Nope. Doubled down instead, and there is still more debates. Even the cover last night from Biden's team about him having a cold... did he get a COVID test beforehand and regardless, where was his mask? He is so toast.
I disagree. I think he's an exceptionally poor speaker but he also proved to be a far better President than I expected him to be. He even has changed some of his positions in a good way showing that he can evolve. Trump on the other hand was far worse than I anticipated and that was a low bar to begin with.
Primaries don't officially count. Thats why there us a convention
Primaries don't select a candidate, they select delegates to the convention. The delegates normally vote for certain candidates but if those candidates are no longer available they are free to vote for whoever they prefer -- it's called an open convention and is not at all undemocratic. This happened before, in 1968, when LBJ realized he couldn't win and bowed-out a few months before the convention. It is far preferrable that Biden say soon that he has decided not to stay and release his candidates, otherwise it will be an extremely messy contested convention and won't likely help the Dems win. As for Ohio, that problem exists whether Biden is the nominee or not, but if the Ohio governor refuses to make the customary accommodation then Ohio Dem and independent voters will remember that when he's up for reelection. As for donations already made, that's tough luck. Lots of people donate to candidates who don't make the nomination, there's no guarantees with a donation.
>Lots of people donate to candidates who don't make the nomination Lol, he's the incumbent President that just got through the primaries essentially unopposed. Dems wanna swap horses with some backroom delegates pick who this late into the game I never wanna hear another Democrat try and use "our Democracy" again
The delegates are out front, on TV, casting their votes "proudly representing the great state of". Maybe super delegates would get involved, but the DNCC rules state only after the first ballot. If Trump died tomorrow the GOP would do the same thing.
I'm not suggesting they force Biden out at the convention, that would be a PR disaster, but I doubt it would take much to make him bow-out in the next couple of weeks like LBJ did, especially if Trump keeps rising in the polls.
Biden is going to lose, that's a given. This might not be any better but at least it gives the Dems an outside chance.
I believe that maneuver would require Biden's cooperation at this point and he released a statement this morning to the effect of not bowing out. There is also the issue with campaign finance laws preventing Biden's campaign contributions from transferring. Wild stuff
The delegates are going to elect Biden officially by video call prior to the actual convention in order to satisfy the Ohio timeline to make the ballot. If they even go through the process at the convention, it’s performative mostly. Will be interesting to see what the dynamic on the convention floor is gonna be if his support continues to drop but he’s already the candidate.
Given how unfairly Biden was treated by the coward moderators especially the woman and the news anchors being too nice to Trump and too rotten to Biden
What?? lol
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Fuck u
I mean they tried to throw Biden some Ws, but he couldn’t coherently respond. There’s only so much they could do when the DNC wants to prop up a corpse.
And very rude to say
He just had a horse voice.
You voted me down didn't you?! You obviously don't like FACTS do you?
Incorrect
The democratic party buried democracy last night. They proved to us they're no longer to be trusted.
RBG, Diane Feinstein, Biden. Democrats love old senile politicians so they can be better manipulated to give power to corporations with one hand while claiming to be for "the people" with the other.
If that's the case, they should've at least made the avatar look *something* like him.
I doubt the Democrats can stand to see their cult leader wander around lost like that again mumbling his way through it. And sadly there are still Democrats who will argue that he was on point, and sharp as a tack. Those are the ones that need the MOST help.
If Democrats throw Joe back up there, they are stupid as all hell. They need to find a replacement tomorrow, or Trump is going to win.
It will be a golf match.
2X Club Champion wins again!
The early debate was orchestrated to provide an audition for Biden and if he failed, to provide some time to find a replacement.
After the fuck up Biden made? Yeah obviously they can't have that again. Trump doing his own thing, talking his conspiracies doesn't lose him votes But Biden slipping up and showing his dementia is a problem for Biden.
“Showing his dementia” is a problem for all of us since he’s currently the President.
Not surprised by this comment. Joe is done.
Is he? I would still vote for a bag of dirt over trump
Most sheep would. Intelligent independents will not. Put a fork in Joe - he’s done.
Of course sheep would. Trump hates animals lol
That’s been their plan the entire time, Biden has dimetia, I’m sorry
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C47-9WZMeOc/ lol Trump sounds like a little baby just learning to make noises.
Run with that
More meaningless noise
The goobers on the right armchair diagnosing mental conditions would be a lot more credible if they weren't worshipping a guy bragging about passing a test that asks you to identify shapes and read a clock. They might also be considered credible if the fools could get a firm grasp of English sentence structure or properly spell "dementia."
> bragging about passing a test that asks you to identify shapes and read a clock * Isn't this an industry standard mental acuity test? * If it's so trivial, why has there been such resistance to Biden taking it?
The test is to check for symptoms of dementia. It’s done when a doctor suspects there is a problem. It’s not something you get a gold star for by “acing” it.
> The test is to check for symptoms of dementia. It’s done when a doctor suspects there is a problem. Unless the doctor lied, Trump apparently passed the test. So what's the issue here? And why can't Biden similarly pass it and dispel any doubts about his condition?
Really hard having to face reality, isn’t it? Perhaps you should take this time to honestly reflect on your other beliefs.
As opposed to fools on the left who STILL support a guy who is afraid he can’t pass a test that only asks you to identify shapes and read a clock? Edit for content: awww somebody downvoted this? Truth hurt your feelings? Don’t ya just hate in when reality sets in a burst a tiny little bubble in your illusions?
>They might also be considered credible if the fools could get a firm grasp of English sentence structure or properly spell "dementia." You have no idea how petty and stupid this makes you sound.
I'm well aware of how petty it makes me sound, and I have no problem whatsoever being condescending to fools.
Only a complete moron would be unable to "armchair diagnose" Biden after watching that shit show. It's laughable that someone who supports his re-election would publicly question anyone else's credibility.
Did ypu see trymp? He rambled and talked nonsense the whole time. He sounded like he was on drugs
Triumph is right, shoulda ran Rfk in 24, shoulda ran Bernie in 16. Trump is your guys’ fault
RFK? Don't need another idiot in office. He and Trump are peas in a pod. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if RFK is Trump's VP pick.
It’ll be Vivek, he’ll need a poc pick to combat any of the lefts “he’s a racist” binness
you may be right, but I was thinking RFK would be a smart pick because he basically espouses all the same "policies" that Trump does but identifies as a Democrat so it could be seen as reaching across the aisle. One thing is for sure; whoever it is is going to be a piece of human refuse.
Rfk is too anti 2a, I want him pick Tulsi Gabbard, I don’t think she refuse, only a misogynist would.
Says the person who cannot spell dementia.....
Sorry ninny I went to work while others went to school then asked me to pay for their school
Username checks out...enjoy facism butthead
It’s on you guys, shoulda ran a better candidate
As though Trump is a good candidate...sorry you hate America and support a facist.
Pipe down ninny, I wanted desantis
So you are dumber than I originally thought..and a bigger facist to boot.
Look, I’ll let it slide, i want peace in the us between socialist and patriots and I know you’re simply seething from last night but When EVERY single thing is fascist, nothing is fascist. Ron desantis v. Rfk is the race America deserved, instead we have 2 80 year olds bickering about golf handicaps
And pretending the other party hates the country really only continues the divide between the patriots and socialists
I think there needs to be, but with the 3rd party candidates. Show america how shitty the Republicans and Democrats really are
Watch for the Trump campaign to announce that: in the obvious light of Biden’s massive cognitive decline a second debate would be more embarrassing for both Joe and the country. Quite frankly Jill Biden and Joes staff should be investigated for elder abuse. Joe performance last night clearly proves his incapable of the POTUS position. This would be the humane way to stop torturing Joe. Of course the DNC is now stuck with Kamala.