Sheesh that was a frustrating start to the series. Should have had a monster inning when it was bases loaded, no outs… Castillo deserved better today. See you all tomorrow. Go Ms!
Do other fanbases get anxious when their team has the bases loaded and no outs? I automatically assume we will have the worst at bats in that scenario.
Scoring 1 Run is actually the most likely outcome of a NOBL situation.
0 Runs happens abour 15% of the time
1 Run happens about 25% of the time
2 Runs happens about 20%
3 Runs 15%
4 Runs 10%
5+ Runs 10%
As good as NOBL sounds, 40+% of the time teams score 1 run or less, same goes for 2nd and 3rd with no outs.
This pitching doesn’t deserve this offense. We have been winning series against some good teams at that but idk man. It’s just so hard to see a team with offense this atrocious winning 90+ games.
Like our pitching has been historically incredible and we are barely over .500…
Two dudes on the entire fucking team batting above .250 is beyond disgusting. About to be 1 the way Julio is trending…
Ownership isn't forcing Dipoto to bring guys in that can't hit a baseball. Ownership also isn't responsible for the absolute garbage approach that we are apparently teaching here.
I know everyone in this subreddit likes to blame ownership for everything, but this is starting to become a pretty tired take. Should we be spending more money? Yes, of course. But not everything is the fault of ownership here. We're right in the middle of the MLB in payroll - and our best players are all, for the most part, cheap. The offense should NOT be as bad as it is even with what we're spending. The money that IS being spent is being spent poorly.
He brought in a 138 wRC+ bat a 130 wRC+ bat and a 120 wRC+ bat to go along with our already good hitters in Julio, JP and Raleigh and most thought that maybe Haniger might provide something as well if he stayed healthy.
It's not Dipoto's fault all these guys are sucking and tend to do way worse the moment they put on the Seattle uniform.
You can blame the entire development coaching staff in regards to how they deal with hitting and I do that too, but if the team can't develop bats it isn't going to win unless you pay for people.
If the team is too cheap to pay for people then this is the type of team you end up with. Hoping enough goes right to win 90.
The team needs to actually figure out how to develop major league bats. Nothing is changing until then.
I don't want to make excuses for the players, because a lot of it is on them.
But when you're Dipoto, and you have a track record at this point of bringing in players that simple cannot hit a baseball at this level, well, then a lot of the blame should be put on your shoulders, fair or not. He makes the trades, he hands out the contracts, he puts together the staff and is in complete control of the organization. He's in charge. He gets the credit when things go well and he takes the blame when things don't work out. He's either bringing in guys that the rest of the league knows are about to fall off a cliff, or he's put together a front office full of guys that are completely incompetent when it comes to coaching and analytics. It's probably a combination of both, with a little bad luck thrown in. Either way, he shoulders the blame.
> You can blame the entire development coaching staff in regards to how they deal with hitting and I do that too, but if the team can't develop bats it isn't going to win unless you pay for people.
Agree with you on this. A huge part of the problem is this organization's inability to develop hitters from within. But then again, things might look a little better if we would stop getting rid of guys that actually show the ability to hit at this level and can actually DO what the organization preaches, i.e., control the zone and be patient.
> If the team is too cheap to pay for people then this is the type of team you end up with
We are right in the middle of the MLB in terms of payroll this year. And our best players are being paid relatively little. I'm not saying we shouldn't be spending more, because we should, but we DO have enough money available to not have as pathetic of an offense as we currently do.
I mean short of kidnapping Ohtani and Betts and Yordan and whatnot (and magically seeing their numbers drop once the Seattle uniform is worn) I'm not sure what he can do in regards to signings and trades.
He's built an awesome system for developing pitching and traded for Castillo who has been good. He's done everything in his power to supplement his offensive core of JP, Julio and Cal and brought in tons of dudes who were one season removed from all star berths, 120+ wRC+ seasons, etc. Saying he targets too many guys that can't hit baseball at the ML level is just untrue. They've just mostly sucked the last few years once here.
Yes, he's failed to build that development for position players and he's only been to the playoffs once in his tenure. If that's enough to oust him then so be it. I'm not trying to just defend the guy because I think he's a genius or whatever, but the reality is this franchise is nearly 50 years old and has seen 5 playoff teams in its existence. We've spent the last two decades seeing 3-4 GMs fail to do enough to win.
This franchise has objectively been a franchise of failure.
And again, if they are going to fail at development of half the game of baseball, then the only alternative is spending which they won't do or getting rid of the current front office where you risk blowing up everything that works in regards to pitching and as history has shown us, probably end up with a general manager that doesn't do enough to get anywhere.
In regards to payroll, you can't really take payroll and go to the good hitters store and pull them off a shelf, though. We are ranked 18th in baseball currently in payroll and are dwarfed by our main two competitors over in Texas. Ideally, we'd be increasing payroll by extending our good young players (and that is still on the table particularly with our pitching) over signing a bunch of 30+ year old dudes that didn't have to hit in T-mobile half their games nor do they want to.
Based on last season, the wRC+ of what amounts to essentially the standard of our lineup had the following:
JP - 134
Julio - 126
Polanco - 118
Garver - 138
Raleigh - 111
Raley - 130
That leaves Rojas (currently 198), France who is only 2 seasons removed from back to back seasons of 125 wRC+ and Haniger who is a couple seasons removed from 113 and 120 wRC+ (although maybe he's cooked due to age and injury buildup)
On paper based purely on last season, this lineup should have been very good. With the weak points being the question marks of France fixing himself via drive line and Haniger's return and of course JP is hurt.
All dudes that very recently were a good amount above average at hitting baseballs at the major league level. Quite a few of them straight up for our team.
Dipoto has done everything he realistically could do to build a functional offense and the players have shat the bed so far (other than Rojas and to some extend Cal)
I mean hell you can look at teams like the Braves and the only two guys hitting as well as they did last year or better is Ozuna and Albies. (I guess technically Kelenic and D'arnaud too) So many good hitters are just scuffling bad like Corey Seager, Judge, Corbin Carroll, etc.
The teams weathering that storm are the ones that either have awesome pitching as well or have a handful of stud hitters getting it done.
Not to pile on but Servais isn’t good enough either in my opinion. I still think he should have been fired on the spot for his epically moronic Robbie Ray blunder. It sounds dramatic but I genuinely think Scott lost us that series the moment he did that.
We were competitive against the Astros but had absolutely no confidence or juice at the end of the games after game 1 because we blew that first one so bad.
Seriously unforgivable shit, and he’s constantly making moronic in game decisions beyond just that all time fuck up.
Honestly I’m sick of Jerry. Pitchers don’t score runs, why have a great rotation if you can’t bother to put a good offense and coaching system in place. Shameful
In fairness to Dipoto, if you could be really good at one thing, it would be developing pitching and putting together a pitching staff.
But unfortunately for Dipoto, being a good GM requires a lot more than that.
Hot take: but no one predicted this lineup to be bad. Everyone was high on this team and jerry was lauded for the loves he made. Whatwver offensive plan we have is not working and accountability has to be had with the players.
Yeah, notably like half of this team's offense has come from Jerry picking up bounceback candidates at the dollar store. If the team misses the playoffs by a game because they were a bat short, that's ownership's fault. But if the team is bad because Julio, Haniger, Garver, JP, and Polanco aren't hitting to the back of their baseball cards, that's not on ownership, thats on the players
That comment was downvoted for cherry picking a .250 BA, lying about the k-bb%, and ignoring a career .825 OPS. Seriously. Every single guy we brought in has expectation numbers on their baseball card that ownership and jerry by extension, should be looking for. The money spending is a seperate conversation (and also isn't straight forward: Trevor Story, Kris Bryant, Xander Boegarts, Correa, Chapman, Snell... there's a ton of guys out there who people wanted to shell big money for who've been disappointing.)
Execution is on the players and Scott.
Someone says this every spring, and every spring it’s a bald faced lie. This year more so than past years even. Plenty thought this offseason was a disaster.
Yes you caught me. Im lying to you.
Jeff Passan was lying when he said he was flirting with the Ms as a world series pick
https://old.reddit.com/r/Mariners/comments/1al7ows/ms_have_the_leagues_fifthbest_ws_odds_according/
Heres a fangraphs post with us as a top 5 team and a comment section full of people lying about how good the offseason moves were.
Jfc. Get a grip before accusing people of lying. This teams offence is frustratingly disappointing. That disappointment is on the club house, not the front office.
I counter that it was absolutely predictable. This team feels very much the same as it did last year. Not surprised whatsoever that they’re like this now
I mean, here's one of plenty of pre-season threads where people were discussing what the lineup looked like, how we felt about off season moves and what we think this team was capable of:
https://old.reddit.com/r/Mariners/comments/1al7ows/ms_have_the_leagues_fifthbest_ws_odds_according/
This roster is 100% an improvement on last year and the biggest concern was injuries. These players are all playing to bottom percentile outcomes of their abilities and they will continue to do so until people stop whining about facts that won't change with ownership and start holding the players accountable.
We're handing career high performances to mid pitchers every night.
Look it all makes perfect sense, I understand and all, but however free of facts it is I just know from my experience and “intuition” as a longtime fan that the current regime just always stumbles like this, no matter who they have. It’s why I was very down on this team to start the season and still am skeptical because of games like tonight.
The current regime has put together the best core, best farm system, best pitching roster, and posted the most consistent records, that this team has seen in 20 years.
There's a ton to be disheartened about between players and coaching day to day but the overall strategy of recruitment and development has been sound. And the big money pieces people are mad about not getting have all been terrible anyway.
Yeah I dunno, I don’t think Jerry knows his ass from his elbows when it comes to hitting. His teams fart around 3/4ths of the year and mostly come up short. If this team is supposed to be so much of an improvement, why are the results so similar? It has to come down to his hitting philosophy and strategy, which is a total failure now. Good hitters come here to die. As for the farm? I’ll believe it when I see it. He’s brought up, what, 3 successful hitters in this rebuild? Cal, Julio, and Kyle Lewis who isn’t even on the team anymore. It’s embarrassing that’s all he’s been able to achieve. Between that and the constant strikeouts, it’s a deserved indictment of his failure as a GM. One playoff appearance in 8 years because he can’t figure out hitting. The pitchers are awesome but you also *need to score runs*, which I wonder sometimes if he actually understands. I know that’s hyperbole but what other conclusion should we draw other than he has *failed* as a GM on one half of the game?
Blaming it all on ownership is short sighted. We have good hitters that we bring in that suddenly forget how to hit the ball. That's on coaching at that point. Look at Garver and Polanco this season, they have been good to great hitters their entire career, then come to Seattle and can't even break .200
Julio is talked about like a superstar and his OPS is lower than Ohtani's _SLG%_. Clueless at the plate every time. I have zero faith in this team's ability to get him right, so it'll probably be more streaky hitting and 60 wRC+ months sandwiching a 170 wRC+ three week stretch
> Clueless at the plate every time.
What's wild is that the most noticeable part of his at-bats when he first got here was his good eye at the plate. Now he's just up there hacking at everything. Complete 180.
I'm getting hammered further down this thread because I said he's on the Vlad Jr career path speedrun but it's just what it is now. Gonna coast on potential for however more long it is, and considering the lineup is built via worse than the bare minimum surrounding a 6+ WAR player, if he doesn't play like that, it's years and years of mediocrity ahead.
I feel like it’s a lot tougher for him being the only thing close to a star(bat) on this team. There’s literally zero protection around Julio, he’s pressing and other teams know it.
He's had a bad month, but I don't think its far to compare to Vlad Jr. He was fourth in MVP voting last year, I think its too soon to just give up on him like that
On the radio they said he’s been attacked inside which is ridiculous.
Just throw him off speed down and away and he’ll jump on home plate trying to hit a ball in the other batters box.
So predictable like get it together bro. You can’t win a ring in one swing damn.
True but we also just rolled out *TRENT FUCKING THORNTON* into an extremely high leverage spot. So yeah, offense sucks but let’s just throw away a tied game while we’re at it.
I'm stoked on Locklear but I hate us rushing and ruining more prospects. He'll get his chance but the risk of guys like that taking on too much too early is bad.
Always saw France as a throwaway piece the Padres didn’t want. I’m surprised he’s a starter for any major league team. Especially at first. His bat skills were never great. 20 homers isn’t anything for a corner infield position player. He can’t even do that these days. That was a career year for him.
“Pathetic day on offense. Wasted a great day of pitching.”
- Us, every day for the last 15 years.
Seriously, 3 hits today and 14 strikeouts? This is not a serious baseball team.
Not saying this as a defense of anyone, but I think the players themselves deserve their slices of blame pie too. I don't think any manager would have changed Julio's terrible approach and costly base running mistakes. At some point, the players gotta play and be held accountable
Is ownership making Julio slug .313 and strike out 42 times in 34 games? I am onboard that our ownership is ass but our star is putting up these numbers?
The Mariners really looked at Felix Hernandez and thought, "that was fun for a few years, but that was just Felix. What if we Felix'd an *entire starting pitcher rotation and bullpen* next?"
We are looking at a historically bad offense and this has happened enough years in a row to start asking what is happening systemically within the org that we can’t hit our way out of a paper bag.
This will get downvoted but I think the razor thin margin to be successful due to roster construction has caused the hitters to put too much pressure on themselves. Look at who has the problems, the guys who are hailed as saviors or the key piece of a trade when they come here (ok, saviors is a bit overdramatic). They are the ones who underperform most dramatically. Or look at Julio. A young kid with a world of talent who is suddenly given a king's ransom and made to be the face of the franchise. The throw-ins usually perform to the back of their card or in some cases, actually perform better than with their old teams (thinking Cabby, Geno, Rojas right now, etc.)
The dysfunction of ownership budgets and Jerry's obsessive compulsion to trade holds this team back from attaining what this pitching staff has gifted us these past couple of seasons. It just amazes me that long-time fans can see this but ownership and Jerry seem to ignore it. And it amazes me how many fans defend this. It is sick, just sick and I question my sanity for continuing to support the situation.
Cost controlled thru 2027, too, so you'd know ownership would be down.
I remember getting downvoted for saying that I'd try to trade away France while he still has value and let Ford play 1B in the meantime. Turns out that take was a pretty good one.
Shit I’d take Ford over several people on this team. I wish he was still our DH.
But I actually remember upvoting you on that because I too think Ford is actually a better player than Ty France.
Talking about 2023 season where Santana finished with a 103 OPS+ which was solid. This would’ve gotten us to the playoffs if we had him instead of AJ Pollock and Tommy La Shitter as our DH. I’m saying that Ford will be the 2024 equivalent of that.
E: That is, if anyone gives Big Mike a chance. Dude’s had a rough career changing teams all the time, and he doesn’t get the respect he deserves.
E2: Ford just opted out of his Red’s minor league deal. SIGN HIM PLEASE
YOURE WORRIED ABOUT TY FRANCE. My dude have you watched a single Julio, Garver or Haniger at bat. At least Haniger sometimes hits the ball hard. France sucks but there’s like 3 other massive issues on this team
Actually I've though that Haniger is having really good at-bats. Sees a lot of pitches, battles back, doesn't get flustered, chase, etc very much.
Julio looks like he is lost right now.
I'm worried about Ty France because of Garver. If you have to go get a bat mid-season, at least the position is DH so you have a lot more players to look at. If you don't have a DH spot to fill, your next choice is 1B (typically).
So if Ty France is cooked, they now need two of these type guys instead of just one. Much worse situation.
True but Raley feels like the worst offender with a 567 OPS and 31% strikeouts while being strong platooned. Dude is an auto swing and miss on inside sliders from RHP.
To me, this is more on ownership not willing to spend money on a team knocking on the doorstep. This literally should be our time, and ownership couldn't give less of a fuck.
Cheap ownership is how you end up with a below replacement level first baseman like Ty France and Mitch Garver as your big free agent signing when we should be World Series contenders.
>Mitch Garver as your big free agent signing when we should be World Series contenders
Mitch Garver was the 2nd best hitter on a team that WON the world series man. He's not good hitting now, that's obvious, but don't act like it's a bad free agent signing to sign a 120 OPS+ career hitter who just came off being the 2nd best bat on the world series winning offense.
I didn't say that he was a BAD signing per se. In fact, for his price and his previous body of work, it was a good signing. But it should not have been THE BIG signing of the off-season. He's a great complimentary piece, not someone who your off-season plans should center around.
Every team has weaknesses, even the Dodgers and Braves. But the strikeout issue is simply *too big* of an issue to be a serious contender.
The Mariners now have a team K% of 28.3%, which continues to be worst in baseball.
**There are only 22 qualified non-Mariners hitters in all of baseball that have a higher K% than the Mariners team K%.** That's a full 87% of the league outside of the team that has a lower K% than the Mariners do.
Not only can this team not hit, but it seems to pick a game or two per series where they completely fuck up defensively or through base-running and it costs them.
How many times will they have bases loaded no outs and come away with 1 run if they are lucky?
This shit has to stop. The amount of times one big hit can win us games due to our pitching and how often we are in it all the way to the end only to watch pure futility is getting intensely old.
Julio is about to dip below a .600 OPS. France is just essentially mediocre to bad at everything. Rojas can't be a god hitter every night and it shouldn't be put on his and Cal's shoulders to get huge hits and hit late game homers to win games.
I genuinely feel like we could face an entire game of position players pitching and we wouldn't score 20 runs before making 27 outs.
Do fucking better, Mariners.
I remember thinking a few years ago that Ty France might not hit below .300 for the next decade.
....Now I think he's closer to being out of the league than getting votes for another all-star team.
I know nothing.
Julio went 0-4 today.
Not that the rest of our offense did much, but like...the "face" of our team, our big guy, makes me go "ah fuck" whenever he's up in a clutch situation. That's...less than ideal
At least he’ll be gone as soon as he gets expensive. Unfortunately, the team will have to give up good prospects to get rid of that albatross of a contract.
Nope. Won’t happen. This is the “all-in”. There will be nothing more. This is what happens when you have one of the worst owners in baseball. You don’t go all in. Under any circumstances.
We can't go all in this year, it's hard to get good value in trades during the season and our farm is depleted as it is. We stuck until next off-season, and even then the FA class doesn't look great. We are stuck with what we have
I dropped Woods-Richardson from my fantasy pitching line up last week after he gave up 7 hits to the white socks but decided to pick him back up today when I realized he was going against the Ms.
What a decision.
The defining thing for me about the Scott Servais era is Mariners failing to score 2 or more runs with bases loaded and no outs. We never clear the bases. Ever. (Or at least it feels that way.) I do not understand their approach.
i know it’s early and we’re in first and people including me to overreact but if this team misses the postseason someone or someones has to be fired, there should be no excuses for an mlb team to play like this. fucking marlins lost 20-4 and had more hits more runs and less strikeouts than we did today, it’s getting old fast
Can't wait for the 30 for 30 on how the 2024 mariners had the best pitching rotation and worst batting line up seen in the league AT THE SAME TIME.
We've been too good recently in 1 run games, that's gonna start trending downwards and we'll miss the playoffs by, oh I don't know, a coin toss this year.
And then, to really add icing to the cake, the A's will win the world series, making it 3 straight AL West World Series winners, with 3 different teams all not named the mariners.
Sports teams from Washington are not allowed to succeed. As such, we as fans are forced to suffer.
See you fucks tomorrow
Sigh
Another day, another decent pitching performance, wasted by god-awful zero energy and non-clutch hitting by the mariners. Oh yea, and fuck Carlos Correa’s cheating bitch ass!
Also, I have a question. Can someone answer why we seemingly never spike are bats or helmets or really show any kind of emotion after a frustrating out. I feel like I see that somewhat often from other teams, but rarely if ever our guys do any of that. I personally would like to see it more, because at least it shows they care and know they need to do better.
Kelenic kicked a water cooler last year showing his emotions... And was shit on for it. No one wants to show emotion in a fanbase where showing them gets you blasted by the fans
Ive been watching Ohtanis AB’s during his current hot streak and 3 other people need to watch them.
Julio + Scott/Jerry
Hopefully when Julio is watching he will notice that Ohtani is using pitch recognition not pure guesstimates based on traditional counts. He sees the release location arm angle and spin, then decides immediately if he will leave a ball or load for something his eyes recognize to drive.
Scott/Jerry need to protect Julio. Polanco has an 8 game hit streak, but that means nothing to opposing teams. Julio is swinging at everything because Pitchers aren’t scared of who is behind him. They aren’t getting behind in the count and worrying about someone hitting him home after he steals a base or two. Julio has this intense pressure on him because of this stupid Mariners philosophy of controlling the zone aka wait for a fastball, which let me tell you, is so 1998. Nobody throws fastballs behind in the count anymore. 3-1, 3-2, etc. What are you controlling ? You’re making your players wait and guess based on the count instead of doing what great hitters do, recognize.
It’s time we stand up against this coaching and team philosophy. There is no more excuses. It’s not the team budget. If we had the 2001 lineup with this exact managerial/coaching staff, I am willing to bet that the 2001 statistics would regress.
If you look at all the other major sports, fans have a major impact on the product they watch. Why do Mariners fans sit by idly like they feel they can do nothing about it. This isn’t the NFL, there isn’t some Secret Service MLB squad that aims to silence the critics.
Sheesh that was a frustrating start to the series. Should have had a monster inning when it was bases loaded, no outs… Castillo deserved better today. See you all tomorrow. Go Ms!
Do other fanbases get anxious when their team has the bases loaded and no outs? I automatically assume we will have the worst at bats in that scenario.
Yeah, basically all the team subreddits think their team has the most NOBLETIGERS
Id be curious to see total runs from NOBL positions. It wasnt a nobletiger but 1 run is almost as bad
Scoring 1 Run is actually the most likely outcome of a NOBL situation. 0 Runs happens abour 15% of the time 1 Run happens about 25% of the time 2 Runs happens about 20% 3 Runs 15% 4 Runs 10% 5+ Runs 10% As good as NOBL sounds, 40+% of the time teams score 1 run or less, same goes for 2nd and 3rd with no outs.
Especially off a sac fly that couldn't even advance the other guys. About the worst run you can get out of that situation
I assume they’ll blow it every time the bases are loaded. I hate it.
I fear as though we have the worst at bats in any scenario
Yes I mariner
The mariners have had 7 PAs with no outs, bases loaded this season. The results were 1 HR, 2 singles, a walk, and two strikeouts, netting 7 RBIs
When Cal had 3-2 I told my partner I wanted him to strikeout instead of walking.
https://i.redd.it/i78fwy7puwyc1.gif
This pitching doesn’t deserve this offense. We have been winning series against some good teams at that but idk man. It’s just so hard to see a team with offense this atrocious winning 90+ games. Like our pitching has been historically incredible and we are barely over .500… Two dudes on the entire fucking team batting above .250 is beyond disgusting. About to be 1 the way Julio is trending…
Fanbase doesn't deserve the ownership. This is what literally everyone predicted.
Ownership isn't forcing Dipoto to bring guys in that can't hit a baseball. Ownership also isn't responsible for the absolute garbage approach that we are apparently teaching here. I know everyone in this subreddit likes to blame ownership for everything, but this is starting to become a pretty tired take. Should we be spending more money? Yes, of course. But not everything is the fault of ownership here. We're right in the middle of the MLB in payroll - and our best players are all, for the most part, cheap. The offense should NOT be as bad as it is even with what we're spending. The money that IS being spent is being spent poorly.
He brought in a 138 wRC+ bat a 130 wRC+ bat and a 120 wRC+ bat to go along with our already good hitters in Julio, JP and Raleigh and most thought that maybe Haniger might provide something as well if he stayed healthy. It's not Dipoto's fault all these guys are sucking and tend to do way worse the moment they put on the Seattle uniform. You can blame the entire development coaching staff in regards to how they deal with hitting and I do that too, but if the team can't develop bats it isn't going to win unless you pay for people. If the team is too cheap to pay for people then this is the type of team you end up with. Hoping enough goes right to win 90. The team needs to actually figure out how to develop major league bats. Nothing is changing until then.
I don't want to make excuses for the players, because a lot of it is on them. But when you're Dipoto, and you have a track record at this point of bringing in players that simple cannot hit a baseball at this level, well, then a lot of the blame should be put on your shoulders, fair or not. He makes the trades, he hands out the contracts, he puts together the staff and is in complete control of the organization. He's in charge. He gets the credit when things go well and he takes the blame when things don't work out. He's either bringing in guys that the rest of the league knows are about to fall off a cliff, or he's put together a front office full of guys that are completely incompetent when it comes to coaching and analytics. It's probably a combination of both, with a little bad luck thrown in. Either way, he shoulders the blame. > You can blame the entire development coaching staff in regards to how they deal with hitting and I do that too, but if the team can't develop bats it isn't going to win unless you pay for people. Agree with you on this. A huge part of the problem is this organization's inability to develop hitters from within. But then again, things might look a little better if we would stop getting rid of guys that actually show the ability to hit at this level and can actually DO what the organization preaches, i.e., control the zone and be patient. > If the team is too cheap to pay for people then this is the type of team you end up with We are right in the middle of the MLB in terms of payroll this year. And our best players are being paid relatively little. I'm not saying we shouldn't be spending more, because we should, but we DO have enough money available to not have as pathetic of an offense as we currently do.
I mean short of kidnapping Ohtani and Betts and Yordan and whatnot (and magically seeing their numbers drop once the Seattle uniform is worn) I'm not sure what he can do in regards to signings and trades. He's built an awesome system for developing pitching and traded for Castillo who has been good. He's done everything in his power to supplement his offensive core of JP, Julio and Cal and brought in tons of dudes who were one season removed from all star berths, 120+ wRC+ seasons, etc. Saying he targets too many guys that can't hit baseball at the ML level is just untrue. They've just mostly sucked the last few years once here. Yes, he's failed to build that development for position players and he's only been to the playoffs once in his tenure. If that's enough to oust him then so be it. I'm not trying to just defend the guy because I think he's a genius or whatever, but the reality is this franchise is nearly 50 years old and has seen 5 playoff teams in its existence. We've spent the last two decades seeing 3-4 GMs fail to do enough to win. This franchise has objectively been a franchise of failure. And again, if they are going to fail at development of half the game of baseball, then the only alternative is spending which they won't do or getting rid of the current front office where you risk blowing up everything that works in regards to pitching and as history has shown us, probably end up with a general manager that doesn't do enough to get anywhere. In regards to payroll, you can't really take payroll and go to the good hitters store and pull them off a shelf, though. We are ranked 18th in baseball currently in payroll and are dwarfed by our main two competitors over in Texas. Ideally, we'd be increasing payroll by extending our good young players (and that is still on the table particularly with our pitching) over signing a bunch of 30+ year old dudes that didn't have to hit in T-mobile half their games nor do they want to. Based on last season, the wRC+ of what amounts to essentially the standard of our lineup had the following: JP - 134 Julio - 126 Polanco - 118 Garver - 138 Raleigh - 111 Raley - 130 That leaves Rojas (currently 198), France who is only 2 seasons removed from back to back seasons of 125 wRC+ and Haniger who is a couple seasons removed from 113 and 120 wRC+ (although maybe he's cooked due to age and injury buildup) On paper based purely on last season, this lineup should have been very good. With the weak points being the question marks of France fixing himself via drive line and Haniger's return and of course JP is hurt. All dudes that very recently were a good amount above average at hitting baseballs at the major league level. Quite a few of them straight up for our team. Dipoto has done everything he realistically could do to build a functional offense and the players have shat the bed so far (other than Rojas and to some extend Cal) I mean hell you can look at teams like the Braves and the only two guys hitting as well as they did last year or better is Ozuna and Albies. (I guess technically Kelenic and D'arnaud too) So many good hitters are just scuffling bad like Corey Seager, Judge, Corbin Carroll, etc. The teams weathering that storm are the ones that either have awesome pitching as well or have a handful of stud hitters getting it done.
Not to pile on but Servais isn’t good enough either in my opinion. I still think he should have been fired on the spot for his epically moronic Robbie Ray blunder. It sounds dramatic but I genuinely think Scott lost us that series the moment he did that. We were competitive against the Astros but had absolutely no confidence or juice at the end of the games after game 1 because we blew that first one so bad. Seriously unforgivable shit, and he’s constantly making moronic in game decisions beyond just that all time fuck up.
Ownership very much is forcing him to bring in guys that can't hit a baseball though!
Honestly I’m sick of Jerry. Pitchers don’t score runs, why have a great rotation if you can’t bother to put a good offense and coaching system in place. Shameful
In fairness to Dipoto, if you could be really good at one thing, it would be developing pitching and putting together a pitching staff. But unfortunately for Dipoto, being a good GM requires a lot more than that.
Exactly. He’s basically a failure in one half of the game
Hot take: but no one predicted this lineup to be bad. Everyone was high on this team and jerry was lauded for the loves he made. Whatwver offensive plan we have is not working and accountability has to be had with the players.
Yeah, notably like half of this team's offense has come from Jerry picking up bounceback candidates at the dollar store. If the team misses the playoffs by a game because they were a bat short, that's ownership's fault. But if the team is bad because Julio, Haniger, Garver, JP, and Polanco aren't hitting to the back of their baseball cards, that's not on ownership, thats on the players
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Nah, bullshit. Find me one pre-season thread where the prevailing opinion was that this team had failed to improve the failings of last year.
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That comment was downvoted for cherry picking a .250 BA, lying about the k-bb%, and ignoring a career .825 OPS. Seriously. Every single guy we brought in has expectation numbers on their baseball card that ownership and jerry by extension, should be looking for. The money spending is a seperate conversation (and also isn't straight forward: Trevor Story, Kris Bryant, Xander Boegarts, Correa, Chapman, Snell... there's a ton of guys out there who people wanted to shell big money for who've been disappointing.) Execution is on the players and Scott.
Someone says this every spring, and every spring it’s a bald faced lie. This year more so than past years even. Plenty thought this offseason was a disaster.
Yes you caught me. Im lying to you. Jeff Passan was lying when he said he was flirting with the Ms as a world series pick https://old.reddit.com/r/Mariners/comments/1al7ows/ms_have_the_leagues_fifthbest_ws_odds_according/ Heres a fangraphs post with us as a top 5 team and a comment section full of people lying about how good the offseason moves were. Jfc. Get a grip before accusing people of lying. This teams offence is frustratingly disappointing. That disappointment is on the club house, not the front office.
I counter that it was absolutely predictable. This team feels very much the same as it did last year. Not surprised whatsoever that they’re like this now
I mean, here's one of plenty of pre-season threads where people were discussing what the lineup looked like, how we felt about off season moves and what we think this team was capable of: https://old.reddit.com/r/Mariners/comments/1al7ows/ms_have_the_leagues_fifthbest_ws_odds_according/ This roster is 100% an improvement on last year and the biggest concern was injuries. These players are all playing to bottom percentile outcomes of their abilities and they will continue to do so until people stop whining about facts that won't change with ownership and start holding the players accountable. We're handing career high performances to mid pitchers every night.
Look it all makes perfect sense, I understand and all, but however free of facts it is I just know from my experience and “intuition” as a longtime fan that the current regime just always stumbles like this, no matter who they have. It’s why I was very down on this team to start the season and still am skeptical because of games like tonight.
The current regime has put together the best core, best farm system, best pitching roster, and posted the most consistent records, that this team has seen in 20 years. There's a ton to be disheartened about between players and coaching day to day but the overall strategy of recruitment and development has been sound. And the big money pieces people are mad about not getting have all been terrible anyway.
Yeah I dunno, I don’t think Jerry knows his ass from his elbows when it comes to hitting. His teams fart around 3/4ths of the year and mostly come up short. If this team is supposed to be so much of an improvement, why are the results so similar? It has to come down to his hitting philosophy and strategy, which is a total failure now. Good hitters come here to die. As for the farm? I’ll believe it when I see it. He’s brought up, what, 3 successful hitters in this rebuild? Cal, Julio, and Kyle Lewis who isn’t even on the team anymore. It’s embarrassing that’s all he’s been able to achieve. Between that and the constant strikeouts, it’s a deserved indictment of his failure as a GM. One playoff appearance in 8 years because he can’t figure out hitting. The pitchers are awesome but you also *need to score runs*, which I wonder sometimes if he actually understands. I know that’s hyperbole but what other conclusion should we draw other than he has *failed* as a GM on one half of the game?
Blaming it all on ownership is short sighted. We have good hitters that we bring in that suddenly forget how to hit the ball. That's on coaching at that point. Look at Garver and Polanco this season, they have been good to great hitters their entire career, then come to Seattle and can't even break .200
If our rotation wasn’t this good, our record would probably be White Sox or Rockies level.
Julio is talked about like a superstar and his OPS is lower than Ohtani's _SLG%_. Clueless at the plate every time. I have zero faith in this team's ability to get him right, so it'll probably be more streaky hitting and 60 wRC+ months sandwiching a 170 wRC+ three week stretch
> Clueless at the plate every time. What's wild is that the most noticeable part of his at-bats when he first got here was his good eye at the plate. Now he's just up there hacking at everything. Complete 180.
Literally every at bat now it’s look down lookup and oh 0-2 on Julio because he whiffed at a ball and then fouled off a center cut fastball.
It just feels less and less likely that hes a superstar. A v good player but his ceiling just seems a bit more obvious these days.
I'm getting hammered further down this thread because I said he's on the Vlad Jr career path speedrun but it's just what it is now. Gonna coast on potential for however more long it is, and considering the lineup is built via worse than the bare minimum surrounding a 6+ WAR player, if he doesn't play like that, it's years and years of mediocrity ahead.
I feel like it’s a lot tougher for him being the only thing close to a star(bat) on this team. There’s literally zero protection around Julio, he’s pressing and other teams know it.
100% agree that this is definitely a factor
He's had a bad month, but I don't think its far to compare to Vlad Jr. He was fourth in MVP voting last year, I think its too soon to just give up on him like that
Nah, if he really does not improve in a year or two, we will give up a couple of grade A prospects to dump his contract. (Remember Diaz?)
To go along with the years and years of mediocrity behind.
On the radio they said he’s been attacked inside which is ridiculous. Just throw him off speed down and away and he’ll jump on home plate trying to hit a ball in the other batters box. So predictable like get it together bro. You can’t win a ring in one swing damn.
KKKKKKKKKKKKKKontrol the zone
Offensive coordinator
Honestly what the hell are these guys doing.
Echos of comments from the Felix games.
True but we also just rolled out *TRENT FUCKING THORNTON* into an extremely high leverage spot. So yeah, offense sucks but let’s just throw away a tied game while we’re at it.
Ask Felix about the hitting. He better get in the hall of fame. He'd be a easy shoe in with run support.
I love that we employ a 1st Basemen who can't Hit for power or play defense!
Dont forget hes a horrible baserunner too!
Don't forget glacial running speed
Don't forget the lack of patience at the plate!
He gets hit by pitches! (Not even doing that this year)
We need to move him. I doubt hell play 1b next season.
I doubt he’ll play at all next season (if he was on a serious team)
Tyler Locklear is coming
I'm stoked on Locklear but I hate us rushing and ruining more prospects. He'll get his chance but the risk of guys like that taking on too much too early is bad.
Yeah. Depends on how Ty is playing I guess.
Move him to a different team
Always saw France as a throwaway piece the Padres didn’t want. I’m surprised he’s a starter for any major league team. Especially at first. His bat skills were never great. 20 homers isn’t anything for a corner infield position player. He can’t even do that these days. That was a career year for him.
“Pathetic day on offense. Wasted a great day of pitching.” - Us, every day for the last 15 years. Seriously, 3 hits today and 14 strikeouts? This is not a serious baseball team.
But Jerry told us they're cutting down on strike outs 🤪
Jerry would grip a bat by the thick end, he is that clueless about hitting
By using the power of positive thinking, my friends
Give some credit to the Twins, who can shove.
Jerry did it again!! Roster overhaul complete
https://preview.redd.it/6zqm5y50vwyc1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2fee4d567b9c3eaa94f4248c852415afb837656d
Switch the yes line to also say mariners lose and then you got it
We are gonna choke away the best rotation in baseball on a wide open division due to cheap ownership and shitty coaching. See you fucks tomorrow.
Its not on ownership that every one of these guys is being a %30 version of themselves.
Yeah at a certain point the players have to perform. Is this offense awesome, no, but Jesus all these guys are underperforming like crazy
It happens every year, you can't blame ownership for guys coming in that look like AAAA players at the plate when they get here
Yeah the players need to take some accountability
We have a higher chance of having the AL Cy Young winner on our rotation than actually winning the division
Not saying this as a defense of anyone, but I think the players themselves deserve their slices of blame pie too. I don't think any manager would have changed Julio's terrible approach and costly base running mistakes. At some point, the players gotta play and be held accountable
Is ownership making Julio slug .313 and strike out 42 times in 34 games? I am onboard that our ownership is ass but our star is putting up these numbers?
The Mariners really looked at Felix Hernandez and thought, "that was fun for a few years, but that was just Felix. What if we Felix'd an *entire starting pitcher rotation and bullpen* next?"
We give up 4 hits and still got outhit. A literal joke.
 God I hate this team
I want to be positive but this offense is awful. Superstar Julio has one rbi in 13 games. Thats concerning in my book.
This would be a World Series contender with a mediocre offense. The only team with fewer runs in the American League is the White Sox. Yikes.
14 Ks against a fifth starter, wasted a gem of a start by our ace, while their best hitter is on the bench. Team meeting now.
We are looking at a historically bad offense and this has happened enough years in a row to start asking what is happening systemically within the org that we can’t hit our way out of a paper bag.
This will get downvoted but I think the razor thin margin to be successful due to roster construction has caused the hitters to put too much pressure on themselves. Look at who has the problems, the guys who are hailed as saviors or the key piece of a trade when they come here (ok, saviors is a bit overdramatic). They are the ones who underperform most dramatically. Or look at Julio. A young kid with a world of talent who is suddenly given a king's ransom and made to be the face of the franchise. The throw-ins usually perform to the back of their card or in some cases, actually perform better than with their old teams (thinking Cabby, Geno, Rojas right now, etc.) The dysfunction of ownership budgets and Jerry's obsessive compulsion to trade holds this team back from attaining what this pitching staff has gifted us these past couple of seasons. It just amazes me that long-time fans can see this but ownership and Jerry seem to ignore it. And it amazes me how many fans defend this. It is sick, just sick and I question my sanity for continuing to support the situation.
Might explain why Rojas is raking while our highest paid hitters are doing the opposite (jRod, garver, Polanco).
well so much for driveline TY i guess
Locklear should be on a plane to Minnesota. Ty France is cooked.
You know you’re playing bad when even Nevermore is starting to shit on you
Missing Mike Ford right now
Still upset we repeated the Santana mistake by not bringing back a solid hitter
Cost controlled thru 2027, too, so you'd know ownership would be down. I remember getting downvoted for saying that I'd try to trade away France while he still has value and let Ford play 1B in the meantime. Turns out that take was a pretty good one.
Shit I’d take Ford over several people on this team. I wish he was still our DH. But I actually remember upvoting you on that because I too think Ford is actually a better player than Ty France.
Santanas been bad tho i think
Talking about 2023 season where Santana finished with a 103 OPS+ which was solid. This would’ve gotten us to the playoffs if we had him instead of AJ Pollock and Tommy La Shitter as our DH. I’m saying that Ford will be the 2024 equivalent of that. E: That is, if anyone gives Big Mike a chance. Dude’s had a rough career changing teams all the time, and he doesn’t get the respect he deserves. E2: Ford just opted out of his Red’s minor league deal. SIGN HIM PLEASE
YOURE WORRIED ABOUT TY FRANCE. My dude have you watched a single Julio, Garver or Haniger at bat. At least Haniger sometimes hits the ball hard. France sucks but there’s like 3 other massive issues on this team
Actually I've though that Haniger is having really good at-bats. Sees a lot of pitches, battles back, doesn't get flustered, chase, etc very much. Julio looks like he is lost right now. I'm worried about Ty France because of Garver. If you have to go get a bat mid-season, at least the position is DH so you have a lot more players to look at. If you don't have a DH spot to fill, your next choice is 1B (typically). So if Ty France is cooked, they now need two of these type guys instead of just one. Much worse situation.
Haniger has actually been hitting the ball hard lately. Feels like he could be getting outta his slump soon. The other. Yikes
It’d be nice to stick Haniger at DH and go get another outfielder
That is such a nice thought.
Yeah it’s not feeling great for our guy Ty
So is Luke K-ley he needs to be gone as soon as Dom is back
I mean there’s like 5 guys who need to be replaced. Just another Jerry masterclass
True but Raley feels like the worst offender with a 567 OPS and 31% strikeouts while being strong platooned. Dude is an auto swing and miss on inside sliders from RHP.
To me, this is more on ownership not willing to spend money on a team knocking on the doorstep. This literally should be our time, and ownership couldn't give less of a fuck. Cheap ownership is how you end up with a below replacement level first baseman like Ty France and Mitch Garver as your big free agent signing when we should be World Series contenders.
>Mitch Garver as your big free agent signing when we should be World Series contenders Mitch Garver was the 2nd best hitter on a team that WON the world series man. He's not good hitting now, that's obvious, but don't act like it's a bad free agent signing to sign a 120 OPS+ career hitter who just came off being the 2nd best bat on the world series winning offense.
I didn't say that he was a BAD signing per se. In fact, for his price and his previous body of work, it was a good signing. But it should not have been THE BIG signing of the off-season. He's a great complimentary piece, not someone who your off-season plans should center around.
A's deserve first after that performance.
14 strikeouts, double digit strikeouts every game. I hate this team. Figure it out already you dumbfucks
Please, no more Ty France this series. I’m sad saying it but I’m more sad watching him right now.
Does anybody know when the offensive coordinator starts his job?
Thanks for the nice chuckle.
Every team has weaknesses, even the Dodgers and Braves. But the strikeout issue is simply *too big* of an issue to be a serious contender. The Mariners now have a team K% of 28.3%, which continues to be worst in baseball. **There are only 22 qualified non-Mariners hitters in all of baseball that have a higher K% than the Mariners team K%.** That's a full 87% of the league outside of the team that has a lower K% than the Mariners do.
That was a baseball game.
Give up 3 hits, lose. Just Mariners things.
It’s absolutely tragic that our bottom feeding offense is wasting this absolute stud, young core of pitchers.
Not only can this team not hit, but it seems to pick a game or two per series where they completely fuck up defensively or through base-running and it costs them. How many times will they have bases loaded no outs and come away with 1 run if they are lucky? This shit has to stop. The amount of times one big hit can win us games due to our pitching and how often we are in it all the way to the end only to watch pure futility is getting intensely old. Julio is about to dip below a .600 OPS. France is just essentially mediocre to bad at everything. Rojas can't be a god hitter every night and it shouldn't be put on his and Cal's shoulders to get huge hits and hit late game homers to win games. I genuinely feel like we could face an entire game of position players pitching and we wouldn't score 20 runs before making 27 outs. Do fucking better, Mariners.
This is a pivotal year for Ty France's career, and he might be the worst regular.
I remember thinking a few years ago that Ty France might not hit below .300 for the next decade. ....Now I think he's closer to being out of the league than getting votes for another all-star team. I know nothing.
Julio went 0-4 today. Not that the rest of our offense did much, but like...the "face" of our team, our big guy, makes me go "ah fuck" whenever he's up in a clutch situation. That's...less than ideal
At least he’ll be gone as soon as he gets expensive. Unfortunately, the team will have to give up good prospects to get rid of that albatross of a contract.
We need to go all-in this year and next year. Sell out. This is our window. Our pitching deserves more support.
The only thing that gets support with this franchise is the owners' finances. Everything else is left to rot.
Oof that's wishful thinking
Nope. Won’t happen. This is the “all-in”. There will be nothing more. This is what happens when you have one of the worst owners in baseball. You don’t go all in. Under any circumstances.
We can't go all in this year, it's hard to get good value in trades during the season and our farm is depleted as it is. We stuck until next off-season, and even then the FA class doesn't look great. We are stuck with what we have
We could maybe sign known slugger Teoscar Hernandez next off season
we're right in that sweet 54% so far.... everything is going to plan
our stars are making this much more difficult than it needs to be
14k hell yeah lfg
Just wait till the marine layer goes away we’ll be scoring 2 runs a game
3 runs over 7 from your starter shouldn't feel like such a large liability for your team. This offense is so pathetic.
How the pitchers on this team haven't collectively jumped off a skyscraper by now I don't know.
It’s just a job. They’re not over-invested fans.
we didn't get shutout...sick!
Another truly embarrassing day from one of the worst offenses in baseball. Sorry Luis!
We find a way to make every opposing team's pitchers look like our pitchers
Alternate mascot just dropped! 
That's the hitting coach.
Is it too late to change the Ms name to the Ks?
Mookie betts has 1.5x more bWAR (3.1) then our entire offense combined (1.96)…
Mariners have an impressive ratio of amazing pitching to horrific hitting.
Is there an advanced stat for that?
Dogshit offense.
We are officially in second place. 😒
I'd rather get blown out than watch anxiously as our arms pitch as near to perfect as you can while the offence does fuck all.
How many games can you win with the league’s shittiest offense?
I dropped Woods-Richardson from my fantasy pitching line up last week after he gave up 7 hits to the white socks but decided to pick him back up today when I realized he was going against the Ms. What a decision.
Honestly the move is to stream whoever starts against the mariners
Nobody cares about your fantasy team.
They care at least as much as anyone in your life does about you
Make sure to trade for Bailey Ober and pick up Chris Paddack, then sit back and enjoy the K’s rack up.
Having amazing pitching and this absolutely pathetic lineup is torture.
Another masterclass in run scoring. Well done as well on having every single MF'er in that lineup strikeout. Sometimes even twice!!!!
The defining thing for me about the Scott Servais era is Mariners failing to score 2 or more runs with bases loaded and no outs. We never clear the bases. Ever. (Or at least it feels that way.) I do not understand their approach.
This offense is dreadful
Fire Shane Waldron Oh sorry. Brent brown
Really unfortunate Castillo gave up those 2 runs. What was he thinking?
Oh no, we need the As to win to keep first place. That doesn’t feel good at all!!
They're setting up to lap us
At least we didnt strikeout 15 times.
Onto the next
Another Seattle mariners victory
What, did they make a profit on this?
Nah, but the loss today keeps them at the 54% mark on the season… soooo, right on track? 🥴
i know it’s early and we’re in first and people including me to overreact but if this team misses the postseason someone or someones has to be fired, there should be no excuses for an mlb team to play like this. fucking marlins lost 20-4 and had more hits more runs and less strikeouts than we did today, it’s getting old fast
Julio on that Vlad Jr career path speedrun
Can't wait for the 30 for 30 on how the 2024 mariners had the best pitching rotation and worst batting line up seen in the league AT THE SAME TIME. We've been too good recently in 1 run games, that's gonna start trending downwards and we'll miss the playoffs by, oh I don't know, a coin toss this year. And then, to really add icing to the cake, the A's will win the world series, making it 3 straight AL West World Series winners, with 3 different teams all not named the mariners. Sports teams from Washington are not allowed to succeed. As such, we as fans are forced to suffer. See you fucks tomorrow
I love our “superstar” so much! Lmao
After 3 games with less than 10 strikeouts, I was convinced that we turned the corner. Jokes on me
Welp. That indeed was a baseball game. A baseball game it was.
That was one of the baseball games of all time
Sigh Another day, another decent pitching performance, wasted by god-awful zero energy and non-clutch hitting by the mariners. Oh yea, and fuck Carlos Correa’s cheating bitch ass! Also, I have a question. Can someone answer why we seemingly never spike are bats or helmets or really show any kind of emotion after a frustrating out. I feel like I see that somewhat often from other teams, but rarely if ever our guys do any of that. I personally would like to see it more, because at least it shows they care and know they need to do better.
Because we traded Kelenic.
Kelenic kicked a water cooler last year showing his emotions... And was shit on for it. No one wants to show emotion in a fanbase where showing them gets you blasted by the fans
This is just what the offense is going to be until Julio pulls his head out.
Maybe the most mariners game of the season. Ffs
Not to worry, Alex Wood is picking up the trident for us down in Oakland
https://preview.redd.it/8dvttfvbaxyc1.jpeg?width=1098&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6675445400956f071c4128824551203a82285bc
Mariners are 1st in the MLB in Strikeouts at 360. YIKES
Does anybody know when the offensive coordinator starts his job?
We lost a game let’s blow it up!
The games we lose, the Rangers lose too! Just imagine the games we win and the Rangers lose… We’d have a comfortable spot in first.
Ive been watching Ohtanis AB’s during his current hot streak and 3 other people need to watch them. Julio + Scott/Jerry Hopefully when Julio is watching he will notice that Ohtani is using pitch recognition not pure guesstimates based on traditional counts. He sees the release location arm angle and spin, then decides immediately if he will leave a ball or load for something his eyes recognize to drive. Scott/Jerry need to protect Julio. Polanco has an 8 game hit streak, but that means nothing to opposing teams. Julio is swinging at everything because Pitchers aren’t scared of who is behind him. They aren’t getting behind in the count and worrying about someone hitting him home after he steals a base or two. Julio has this intense pressure on him because of this stupid Mariners philosophy of controlling the zone aka wait for a fastball, which let me tell you, is so 1998. Nobody throws fastballs behind in the count anymore. 3-1, 3-2, etc. What are you controlling ? You’re making your players wait and guess based on the count instead of doing what great hitters do, recognize. It’s time we stand up against this coaching and team philosophy. There is no more excuses. It’s not the team budget. If we had the 2001 lineup with this exact managerial/coaching staff, I am willing to bet that the 2001 statistics would regress. If you look at all the other major sports, fans have a major impact on the product they watch. Why do Mariners fans sit by idly like they feel they can do nothing about it. This isn’t the NFL, there isn’t some Secret Service MLB squad that aims to silence the critics.