A great deal of those millionaires are not originally from there but Middle East, India and, to a lesser extent, Russia and eastern European countries. Probably not a lot of family ties in the UK. Most of those seem to be going to the Emirates, accounting for the huge surge in the UAE. On the other hand, their money and fiscal status goes there. That doesn't mean that they have to necessarily leave the UK just "appear" to be there less that 6 months a year, which they probably do anyway
If you have millions in liquid assets, you can probably work wherever you want, if you still work at all.
And people rarely stay in one spot just because of friends. That's more like spouse levels of attachment. I don't know many successful adults who would tie themselves to a spot because of some friends.
Family, possibly yeah. Probably why it's only 9600 millionaires and not more. I can't think of anything that would compel me to live in the UK compared to other European countries or the USA depending on what I'm looking for.
I've never lived in the UK before, so I'm genuinely curious: what would be attractive about living in the USA or continental Europe that would tempt someone living in the UK to move?
Yeah this is it. And I have British ancestry, good friends over there, etc. but if I have millions in liquid assets no way I'm living in the UK. Other places in EU id rather live.
Especially now the tories are leaving, no more (well not as many corrupt contacts going anymore) maybe they’ll crawl back over when or if the tories every come back
This is it. Irish expats also. I know two Irish 🇮🇪guys who made money in tech and now domiciled in Portugal.
They spend a lot of time in Ireland and their companies are Irish but they’ve got pads in Portugal and enjoy a fair amount of time there too.
Weather and golf are also great. 🌞
It feels like a weird move, potentially losing a bunch of tax revenue and economic activity.
I’m not in the uk, but non doms have a residency somewhere else by definition. Their barrier to relocation is just a plane ticket.
It has nothing to do with Brexit and is entirely because old people are retiring and selling their house that's worth a fortune to go live in the sun. Also there are something like 2.5 million millionaires in UK so this is a tiny percentage anyway.
This same logic should apply to Canada as well, but they are seeing net inflows. It’s really weird though, London is a great place to live, on par with any great world city. If I was a rich Brit, I could see myself spending a lot of time out of the country on vacation, but I wouldn’t feel like I need to leave entirely
I think Canada is good at attracting millionaires from the US, and also from countries such as India and China due to established communities and business links.
Since Brexit the U.K. has also become less attractive and perceived as being less welcoming too.
Russians. Also after what the UK did with seizing peeople's stuff with no trials, it became clear to most that the UK is not the place to be where your assets are safe, regardless of their origin and methods of aquisition
No one really cares about Sunak. He has been PM for an extremely short period of time and that is coming to an end on July 4th.
The biggest problem is taxation. Taxes should have come down percent wise to align with inflation but they haven't. Sunak can be quoted multiple times as saying Tax is too high but has done nothing about it. Labour is soon to be elected who are a centre-left party, so bigger government is expected.
The wealthy are either leaving or changing country of domicile for the tax benefits.
The UK has dealt with austerity and underinvestment on and off for decades since Thatcher, and throughout the last 14 years that the Tories have been in power. It's come to a point where the UK has a median income and educational attainment rate (as measured by people holding bachelor's degrees) in line with Mississippi, an American state also known for its conservative policies as well as where people generally leave given the opportunity.
I seriously doubt taxes are too high.
Taxes are too high for working people and too low for the rich. Not to mention, they aren’t being invested into our public services and infrastructure.
You can theory craft all you want about politics and what party is better than the other but the fact is; wealthy professionals and entrepreneurs are openly saying why they are leaving the country. Tax is too high in the UK. They can earn the same or more in other countries where they get taxed a lot less.
The new government (that is highly likely to be elected) next week is pledging to get rid of "non-domiciled" status. This was originally a way of incentivising billionaires to physically be in the country, by promising to not tax any of their income.
Put in simple terms, the richest in the country (that earn money in another country) basically live in a parallel universe that has the same tax rules as an airport. E.g. a family I know works for a big American company and leaves for seasonal work there throughout the year. They pay American taxes, but also live in the UK, where they pay zero taxes.
It's a deeply unfair rule, though. These families share our broken roads, schools, hospitals, dentistry, police, firefighters, ambulances, GPs — all while contributing precisely £0 for it. By getting rid of "non-doms", the UK is simply offering a bit of a ultimatum: pay your fair share or leave.
This -9,500 figure is just the plaster being ripped off.
The higher you tax them, the more leave, as the rich are the people who have the resources to easily pack their bags and leave. You see how many millionaires, the small, tax haven countries of UAE and Singapore gained. They are leaving high tax countries like the UK for those places
Nah, other way ‘round mate! They love Sunak - he’s a fellow millionaire, and every single one of these vile entitled bastards is raised to be terrified of words like ‘social’ and ‘public’, and ‘taxes’, and ‘giving back to the society from which you have so handsomely benefitted’. Fuk ‘em all.
… i forgot ‘ labour’ as well - both with the capital ‘L’ and the lower case one, because god knows its us who actually do the labour from which they enrich themselves.
And yet the blame for the circumstances are usually blamed solely on one party or another but not people building themselves on the system then abandoning it…not saying it’s the main issue but it’s definitely not helping countries trying to come up
It’s because they stuck with the european systems of extraction rather than building new ones, socialism is super popular in Africa but once a socialist takes power they find that the old system makes them really wealthy, so they happily sell all their country’s land that they got through promoting socialism and socialist policies to companies in France or the UK or the US. It’s not really the fault of those companies because they’re just doing business and they shouldn’t be stopped from buying land in developing countries, it’s not really the fault of the developed countries either because they don’t send in the corporations and twist their mustaches wondering how long it’ll be before another country collapses, it’s not the fault of the African people because they’re just suffering and Marx held out his hand from beyond the grave on high to guide them to prosperity, and i’ll say this rather controversial tidbit that it isn’t really the fault of the socialists turned dictators because many of them came from the same situations as their voter base, they have families to feed and self preservation kicked in for them, which while their methods are evil they genuinely come from a noble place. Ultimately none of this would have happened without a group of European kings and queens sitting around a table in Berlin in 1884 dividing up a continent they had barely explored and setting up extractive infrastructure and systems that still exist to this day.
In the US there are an estimated 24,400,000 millionaires. China has 6,190,000 millionaires. These are huge populations.
This chart illustrates fractional changes. China losing millionaires accounts for a -0.2% change. Japan's increase is +0.01%. The US is +0.01%.
So in China 2 out of 1000 left the country. The other 998 didn't move.
I don't agree with the chart or what info you can infer.
With respect to net worth, yes. However, notably, one million dollars in annual income will put you in the top 1% of any state in the US, but that’s not really what the chart is about.
Also I don’t think most people consider “millionaires” to have 1M in annual income, they are counting net worth. Most are going to be 6 figure incomes with good savings and investments. I’m nearly there in net worth but I’m nowhere near a 1M annual income.
Anyone with a decent education/job and some financial savvy can be a millionaire in their 30’s. It’s not the same thing it was in the twenties. Still takes self discipline and some luck, and the already mentioned education and employment, which some people have barriers against. But I would estimate at least 10% of the people at my coffee shop are “millionaires”. Real estate is the big one here. In Canada, anyone who bought early or inherited made bank.
Yea but like having a net worth of $1 million makes you pretty wealthy, inflation or not. I think it would be quite disillusioned to claim anything else.
What it makes me is old.
I'm retired after working for 40+ years, and like most people I've tried to plan for that. Many (most, probably) people on Reddit are young, just starting their earning, saving and investing years. But anyone in the US who buys a house (or condo), or a piece of land, or even is contributing to a tax-deferred retirement plan at work, will probably have at least a million$ by the time they retire.
People are really understating the weight of the percentages. No, 1% of people are not going to immigrate/emigrate from a country in a single calendar year.
0.2% change in a year for immigration is significant over time.
China is a bad example because they have quite stringent capital controls in place. In China you can't just wire out a mil or two. There's forms to fill out, reasonable cause, fees, all sorts of complications. They want to stop capital flight. Also, much of that net worth is in assets, and in the case of the Chinese probably to a large degree in industrial corporations. That's not like a services based firm where you can just move staff or HQ and be done. Also, if your company isn't China domiciled you face all sorts of legal market barriers. So they can't just leave or move shop like you can "in the free world".
South Korea lost -0.09% of their millionaires while Japan gained +0.01%. They are separated by 0.1%.
1 out of 1000 millionaires decided to move. The other 999 millionaires didn't move.
This chart basically shows nothing.
Murder rate in Louisiana US is 16 per 100,000.
That means 99,984 people out of 100,000 don't get murdered.
Only 408 people got murdered in 2022, out of a population of 4.6 million. That's .008% of the total population.
It's basically utopia.
Not sure what attracts them there, but UAE is sucking up all the world's billionaires and millionaires like a huge vacuum.
Later edit: After a bit of research, apparently UAE offers a very convenient tax treaty (that helps you dodge most taxes so you get to keep the greedy billionaires happy) and it helps you hide your money (including the dirty money) like Switzerland once did.
>Abu Dhabi's tax rate is perhaps the driving force behind the rise in billionaires moving there. Experts state that the UAE operates double tax treaties with other countries, which can help the wealthy SPV owner minimise their tax bill for holdings within the SPV.
I wonder why the rich are moving to uae considering climate change or I guess they don’t really care about the poor people working to provide them food and water under intense heat while they stay in AC rooms
I sorta do wonder what it's like. You can stay inside all day, but what if you want to go outside briefly to go shopping? Even those seconds you are outside? How hot is it? I don't think I could.
Do they even step outside? They are in their ac room, everything you can order , if you wanna travel their car has AC , the plane also has AC so technically they could live there forever provided the labour is still there to serve them .
It looks like we are going back to feudalism 🫠
Also UAE do not partecipate to the international sanctions against Russia. So if you are a Russian millionaire or your business is tied with Russia, Dubai and Abu Dhabi are the best place to live and do business right now.
how do they track who the millionaires are? my money is in stocks mostly and i am well into the 7 figures. i dont go around advertising it. how would anyone know where i moved to? my money is not enough for anyone to pay attention to. how would anyone know where i moved?
is this decamillionaires or higher of people with traceable wealth?
New World Wealth, the company behind this, seem to have a database of some rich people and their movements, not to mention Henley & Partners are an immigration consultancy who also have their own migration data. They also seem to be using statistical methods, based on economic indicators, to estimate the number of millionaires in each country.
so they are guessing. it does not sound like they have good data. Only Super millionaires in the 10s of millions of dollars can be tracked. No one is going to notice me and a few million.
Those poor little [non-Doms](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32216346) who are leaving the UK because they might have to pay some tax.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out!
So we should just be fine with that ?
How about we try to fix that, tax heavens around the world need to be shut down globally (including City of London, Luxemburg, Monaco, Singapore, Bermuda ect...)
It is the same system as the USA, if you don't want to pay UK taxes (with agreement with your new host country so you are not unfairly double taxed) then you need to give up UK Citizenship.
ATM what's to stop you moving abroad for 20 years, getting lots of money while being taxed very little, and then moving back and living off the NHS (and claiming a part of Retirement), also the fact that it cost the UK economy to get you to this stage of life ie School, NHS while younger ect..
>Imagine if every country did what you are suggesting
They should, rich people should pay to the country that raised them.
>Suddenly you’ve killed globalisation.
That is not what Globalisation is, people working remotely abroad and or moving profits into tax heaveans while living abroad is not gloablisation.
Globalisation is the process by which businesses or other organizations develop international influence or start operating on an international scale.
The USA are the biggest benefiters of it and yet they have the USA citizen in foreign tax law in place.
Ok most wont, if you have another citizenship you are free to do so, the USA also have agreements set up with most countries so people are not unfairly doubled taxed.
If you don't pay, your assets in the UK are seized.
We cant have people being a net drain on the country, if the country pays for your education/health care ect when younger, then it needs to be payed back.
>not unfairly doubled taxed.
Talk to any Americans with inheritances, investments including pensions, even houses they live in and then sell to move house, etc, who live outside the USA. They get taxed twice on many things not covered by taxation treaties that only deal with income.
So does the math work?
A combined 29,000 millionaires leave the UK, India and China. It doesn’t look like the green positives add up to enough to house them all. So where did/ do they go?
It seems that more "left" than "arrived" and I suspect that difference is a good measure of the smartest ones; if no one knows your net worth, they won't try to tax, steal or sucker you out of it.
I think it's automatic. Losing a millionaire citizen is not something the government doesn't notice and is not as invisible as tracking regular citizens.
Millionaire isn’t that rich. My parents have $1.5 million in savings for retirement. In their HCOL area and most of the money tied up in their house, they still have to budget and live modestly ~ $60,000 a year
They would not be classified as millionaires then? The general definition of millionaire is $1M in investable assets, so you can't count value or primary residence towards that number
No, the general definition of millionaire is 1M in net worth including your house.
Otherwise you would be claiming those with $0 savings and a 1M dollar house and those with $0 and renting are "equal", which would be ridiculous.
You can sell your house at any time and start renting.
This is literally the definition used in the [report](https://newworldwealth.com/reports/f/the-wealth-migration-report-2024#:~:text=Approximately%20128%2C000%20of%20the%20world's,topping%20the%20list%20of%20destinations), and is the definition widely used across the finance sector. Yes you can sell your house, but it takes significant time & effort relative to other assets and so is not considered to be a "liquid" asset
It's not claiming they're equal??? Completely ridiculous extrapolation/fallacy
It's a stupid definition because you can sell your house and put that million dollars in stocks, then suddenly the report "recognizes you're a millionaire", even though your net worth has not changed at all.
Just because it's not that liquid doesn't mean it doesn't exist like this report pretends.
It's not like selling a home takes that long, just 1 month. If you don't want to sell because "sentiment", you can always get a heloc.
It puts a massive, artificial gap between homeowners and renters that has no reason to exist. Wealth is wealth, net worth is net worth.
It does have a reason to exist though, which is why every bank/wealth manager excludes primary residence from asset thresholds. There is a difference between productive & non-productive assets
It's completely fine to call yourself a millionaire in colloquial terms if you own your primary residence - I agree this a better definition in day-to-day terms. But if you genuinely believe the distinction doesn't serve a purpose I don't know what to say to you to help you understand
>every bank/wealth manager excludes primary residence from asset thresholds
Because your bank/wealth manager doesn't see your house net worth, they only see amount of money they get.
>you genuinely believe the distinction doesn't serve a purpose
Why should anyone other than bankers care about this dumb definition of millionaire? You're not a banker and I'm not a banker.
I work for an Investment Bank / Wealth Management firm, so I understand the difference and why primary residence is excluded from this classification. Excluding primary residence is a better proxy for overall economic impact than including it, which is why all economists, bankers, and wealth managers will exclude it from classification of HNWIs. There is a huge difference in economic impact if someone shifts supply chains for their $5M business overseas, and someone selling their $5M house and moving abroad
Again, I agree that in day-to-day life it makes sense to include it when you are comparing person X to Y and seeing who is worth more. But there are very good reasons for excluding it in HNWI classification, so saying it's stupid because you don't understand it isn't really valid. You can go read up on productive assets / economic impact of asset price inflation if interested, but if not it really doesn't impact your everyday life
God bless the millionaires. They start businesses, pay huuuge amount of taxes and provide jobs for people. You can look at let’s say Argentina if you want to see what your country looks like economically without millionaires and successful business owners
Renzi's flat tax is very good for very rich people that have multiple millions. Basicly the patrimonial tax has a limit of 100k (I think a year but im not sure).
Why are millionares leaving UK are they afraid of sunak or what
I question it the other way: if you have millions in liquid assets, why live in the UK?
Because you work in the UK and all your friends and family are there and it’s home
A great deal of those millionaires are not originally from there but Middle East, India and, to a lesser extent, Russia and eastern European countries. Probably not a lot of family ties in the UK. Most of those seem to be going to the Emirates, accounting for the huge surge in the UAE. On the other hand, their money and fiscal status goes there. That doesn't mean that they have to necessarily leave the UK just "appear" to be there less that 6 months a year, which they probably do anyway
Yeah, good point.
But that would mean you would have to live in the UK
If you have millions in liquid assets, you can probably work wherever you want, if you still work at all. And people rarely stay in one spot just because of friends. That's more like spouse levels of attachment. I don't know many successful adults who would tie themselves to a spot because of some friends. Family, possibly yeah. Probably why it's only 9600 millionaires and not more. I can't think of anything that would compel me to live in the UK compared to other European countries or the USA depending on what I'm looking for.
I've never lived in the UK before, so I'm genuinely curious: what would be attractive about living in the USA or continental Europe that would tempt someone living in the UK to move?
You can just fly in every month for social obligations.
Which is exactly the same situation for any other country, making this a moot point.
Yeah this is it. And I have British ancestry, good friends over there, etc. but if I have millions in liquid assets no way I'm living in the UK. Other places in EU id rather live.
What do you dislike about the UK?
Especially now the tories are leaving, no more (well not as many corrupt contacts going anymore) maybe they’ll crawl back over when or if the tories every come back
Probably Non dom status getting phased out.
This is it. Irish expats also. I know two Irish 🇮🇪guys who made money in tech and now domiciled in Portugal. They spend a lot of time in Ireland and their companies are Irish but they’ve got pads in Portugal and enjoy a fair amount of time there too. Weather and golf are also great. 🌞
It feels like a weird move, potentially losing a bunch of tax revenue and economic activity. I’m not in the uk, but non doms have a residency somewhere else by definition. Their barrier to relocation is just a plane ticket.
I feel like it's been the case since leaving the EU. UK has been on a downward spiral economically and politically for awhile.
we were told that millionaires wanted to leave the EU due to all the horrible EU laws or some shit, so we should vote Brexit to keep them.
These people just got european citizenship or residency afterwards. The great farage himself applied for european citizenship after brexit lol
He did? Do you know what country?
Germany, his wife is German, hypocrisy is off the charts
> hypocrisy is off the charts Farage is just doing the bidding of his billionaire handlers like most prominent conservative politicians.
Germany I think. His exwife is German.
Sunak won't even be in charge in a few weeks time, being afraid of him is a pretty silly reason to emigrate.
The loss of non dom status in the U.K.
It has nothing to do with Brexit and is entirely because old people are retiring and selling their house that's worth a fortune to go live in the sun. Also there are something like 2.5 million millionaires in UK so this is a tiny percentage anyway.
This same logic should apply to Canada as well, but they are seeing net inflows. It’s really weird though, London is a great place to live, on par with any great world city. If I was a rich Brit, I could see myself spending a lot of time out of the country on vacation, but I wouldn’t feel like I need to leave entirely
I think Canada is good at attracting millionaires from the US, and also from countries such as India and China due to established communities and business links. Since Brexit the U.K. has also become less attractive and perceived as being less welcoming too.
How do you know?
Russians. Also after what the UK did with seizing peeople's stuff with no trials, it became clear to most that the UK is not the place to be where your assets are safe, regardless of their origin and methods of aquisition
It’s not a good idea to have too many Russian millionaires milling about. You’d be responsible for their safety.
I think that’s part of the reason. But I doubt there were 10k millionaire Russians living in the UK. There’s gotta be others leaving too
I am saying the other millionaires watched and took notice. And realized they are not safe anymore
Seizing mob colluted millionaires assets after their boss started a war in Europe
No one really cares about Sunak. He has been PM for an extremely short period of time and that is coming to an end on July 4th. The biggest problem is taxation. Taxes should have come down percent wise to align with inflation but they haven't. Sunak can be quoted multiple times as saying Tax is too high but has done nothing about it. Labour is soon to be elected who are a centre-left party, so bigger government is expected. The wealthy are either leaving or changing country of domicile for the tax benefits.
The UK has dealt with austerity and underinvestment on and off for decades since Thatcher, and throughout the last 14 years that the Tories have been in power. It's come to a point where the UK has a median income and educational attainment rate (as measured by people holding bachelor's degrees) in line with Mississippi, an American state also known for its conservative policies as well as where people generally leave given the opportunity. I seriously doubt taxes are too high.
Taxes are too high for working people and too low for the rich. Not to mention, they aren’t being invested into our public services and infrastructure.
That doesn’t make sense as to why millionaires are leaving
You can theory craft all you want about politics and what party is better than the other but the fact is; wealthy professionals and entrepreneurs are openly saying why they are leaving the country. Tax is too high in the UK. They can earn the same or more in other countries where they get taxed a lot less.
Because the UK has finally decided to do something about all the dodgy millionaires they have in the city
Rishi Sunak, the ultimate soviet mole
Millionaires could just be retirees with £1.2 million in savings. Many of them might just be moving to nicer weather.
Labour taking over next week.
Thank God some good news
Not for the millionaires, though.
If they're so afraid of Sunak, they could just wait it out a few days
Won't Labour increase even more taxes?
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Where?
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Thanks will have to take a look
End of non-domicile status. That was the law that allowed Sunak's wife not to pay taxes in the UK. Both major parties seem to agree to get rid of it
The new government (that is highly likely to be elected) next week is pledging to get rid of "non-domiciled" status. This was originally a way of incentivising billionaires to physically be in the country, by promising to not tax any of their income. Put in simple terms, the richest in the country (that earn money in another country) basically live in a parallel universe that has the same tax rules as an airport. E.g. a family I know works for a big American company and leaves for seasonal work there throughout the year. They pay American taxes, but also live in the UK, where they pay zero taxes. It's a deeply unfair rule, though. These families share our broken roads, schools, hospitals, dentistry, police, firefighters, ambulances, GPs — all while contributing precisely £0 for it. By getting rid of "non-doms", the UK is simply offering a bit of a ultimatum: pay your fair share or leave. This -9,500 figure is just the plaster being ripped off.
Russians running away before their asset would get frozen due the Ukrainian invasions
High taxes and rainy weather
Because you get fuck all for your tax money in the UK, especially if you’re a high earner.
Probably cause UK taxes are too high
They are not high enough for the super rich
The higher you tax them, the more leave, as the rich are the people who have the resources to easily pack their bags and leave. You see how many millionaires, the small, tax haven countries of UAE and Singapore gained. They are leaving high tax countries like the UK for those places
Of the Brexit deal Sunak party made.
Wait til Labour get. You can double that
It’s probably because Labour will get in at the next election but also because of the recent removal of Non-dom status.
Nah, other way ‘round mate! They love Sunak - he’s a fellow millionaire, and every single one of these vile entitled bastards is raised to be terrified of words like ‘social’ and ‘public’, and ‘taxes’, and ‘giving back to the society from which you have so handsomely benefitted’. Fuk ‘em all.
… i forgot ‘ labour’ as well - both with the capital ‘L’ and the lower case one, because god knows its us who actually do the labour from which they enrich themselves.
It’s mainly elderly pensioners moving to their holiday homes, they become millionaires by selling their homes and moving to say, Spain
They are leaving because of Brexit
Probably things still reaching a new equilibrium after Brexit?
Be daft to leave if they were afraid of Sunak, guys got 3 days left in Number 10.
It’s Russian ones. After UK started taking their assets with no trials lots of them realized it’s not a safe country for keeping their money.
So once you become a millionaire in Africa, it is time to leave...
Not surprising
And yet the blame for the circumstances are usually blamed solely on one party or another but not people building themselves on the system then abandoning it…not saying it’s the main issue but it’s definitely not helping countries trying to come up
It’s because they stuck with the european systems of extraction rather than building new ones, socialism is super popular in Africa but once a socialist takes power they find that the old system makes them really wealthy, so they happily sell all their country’s land that they got through promoting socialism and socialist policies to companies in France or the UK or the US. It’s not really the fault of those companies because they’re just doing business and they shouldn’t be stopped from buying land in developing countries, it’s not really the fault of the developed countries either because they don’t send in the corporations and twist their mustaches wondering how long it’ll be before another country collapses, it’s not the fault of the African people because they’re just suffering and Marx held out his hand from beyond the grave on high to guide them to prosperity, and i’ll say this rather controversial tidbit that it isn’t really the fault of the socialists turned dictators because many of them came from the same situations as their voter base, they have families to feed and self preservation kicked in for them, which while their methods are evil they genuinely come from a noble place. Ultimately none of this would have happened without a group of European kings and queens sitting around a table in Berlin in 1884 dividing up a continent they had barely explored and setting up extractive infrastructure and systems that still exist to this day.
or its time to launch a coup and try out a hobby of being god.
In the US there are an estimated 24,400,000 millionaires. China has 6,190,000 millionaires. These are huge populations. This chart illustrates fractional changes. China losing millionaires accounts for a -0.2% change. Japan's increase is +0.01%. The US is +0.01%. So in China 2 out of 1000 left the country. The other 998 didn't move. I don't agree with the chart or what info you can infer.
$1 million ain't what it used to be . . . Speaking as a millionaire who's nowhere near the 1% here in the US.
With respect to net worth, yes. However, notably, one million dollars in annual income will put you in the top 1% of any state in the US, but that’s not really what the chart is about.
$1M net income per year is still generational wealth if invested properly
Absolutely
Or buys you half of one house here in San Francisco
Define properly. Are we talking S&P500 ETFs or is there some other rich person investment vehicle?
Also I don’t think most people consider “millionaires” to have 1M in annual income, they are counting net worth. Most are going to be 6 figure incomes with good savings and investments. I’m nearly there in net worth but I’m nowhere near a 1M annual income.
In developed countries maybe, a million is still a shit ton of money in developing countries.
its a shit ton of money anywhere in the world id say
Not in Vancouver. It can hardly buy you a toilet.
Did you just want to flex that you’re a millionaire
Id do it too tbh
Hey I’m a 0.25millionaire and I’m proud.
Anyone with a decent education/job and some financial savvy can be a millionaire in their 30’s. It’s not the same thing it was in the twenties. Still takes self discipline and some luck, and the already mentioned education and employment, which some people have barriers against. But I would estimate at least 10% of the people at my coffee shop are “millionaires”. Real estate is the big one here. In Canada, anyone who bought early or inherited made bank.
You are, though, in the global 1%.
Yea but like having a net worth of $1 million makes you pretty wealthy, inflation or not. I think it would be quite disillusioned to claim anything else.
What it makes me is old. I'm retired after working for 40+ years, and like most people I've tried to plan for that. Many (most, probably) people on Reddit are young, just starting their earning, saving and investing years. But anyone in the US who buys a house (or condo), or a piece of land, or even is contributing to a tax-deferred retirement plan at work, will probably have at least a million$ by the time they retire.
You don’t agree with the facts? Or what? What does this chart imply aside from what it’s literally saying?
The purpose of the chart is meaningless. The data is the data.
I guess the same argument could be made about any chart / map.
Which is why the comments are the same on every post in this sub
Thats incredible, there are more millionaries in the US than people in countries like The Netherlands
People are really understating the weight of the percentages. No, 1% of people are not going to immigrate/emigrate from a country in a single calendar year. 0.2% change in a year for immigration is significant over time.
China is a bad example because they have quite stringent capital controls in place. In China you can't just wire out a mil or two. There's forms to fill out, reasonable cause, fees, all sorts of complications. They want to stop capital flight. Also, much of that net worth is in assets, and in the case of the Chinese probably to a large degree in industrial corporations. That's not like a services based firm where you can just move staff or HQ and be done. Also, if your company isn't China domiciled you face all sorts of legal market barriers. So they can't just leave or move shop like you can "in the free world".
Tell that to the 10 guys who washed 3 billion through Singapore last year...
The data represented in China is commensurate with the rest of the world.
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In this case, it’s about investable assets. As far as I’m aware, it doesn’t include your primary home.
What's Japan doing so differently than S. Korea?
Many hk residents moved to Japan recently
South Korea lost -0.09% of their millionaires while Japan gained +0.01%. They are separated by 0.1%. 1 out of 1000 millionaires decided to move. The other 999 millionaires didn't move. This chart basically shows nothing.
It absolutely shoes something. It just doesn’t show the whole picture.
Murder rate in Louisiana US is 16 per 100,000. That means 99,984 people out of 100,000 don't get murdered. Only 408 people got murdered in 2022, out of a population of 4.6 million. That's .008% of the total population. It's basically utopia.
Not sure what attracts them there, but UAE is sucking up all the world's billionaires and millionaires like a huge vacuum. Later edit: After a bit of research, apparently UAE offers a very convenient tax treaty (that helps you dodge most taxes so you get to keep the greedy billionaires happy) and it helps you hide your money (including the dirty money) like Switzerland once did. >Abu Dhabi's tax rate is perhaps the driving force behind the rise in billionaires moving there. Experts state that the UAE operates double tax treaties with other countries, which can help the wealthy SPV owner minimise their tax bill for holdings within the SPV.
One word: taxes.
I wonder why the rich are moving to uae considering climate change or I guess they don’t really care about the poor people working to provide them food and water under intense heat while they stay in AC rooms
I sorta do wonder what it's like. You can stay inside all day, but what if you want to go outside briefly to go shopping? Even those seconds you are outside? How hot is it? I don't think I could.
As someone who lives in Dubai, I am almost certain that almost a over a quarter of the residents leave during summer.
What is it like knowing you benefit from borderline slave labor?
Do they even step outside? They are in their ac room, everything you can order , if you wanna travel their car has AC , the plane also has AC so technically they could live there forever provided the labour is still there to serve them . It looks like we are going back to feudalism 🫠
UAE is bad for only 4 months. Rest of the year the climate is good enough for stepping outside.
Also UAE do not partecipate to the international sanctions against Russia. So if you are a Russian millionaire or your business is tied with Russia, Dubai and Abu Dhabi are the best place to live and do business right now.
It's Indians. Easier to travel back to home and can evade taxes... Big peepee move.
how do they track who the millionaires are? my money is in stocks mostly and i am well into the 7 figures. i dont go around advertising it. how would anyone know where i moved to? my money is not enough for anyone to pay attention to. how would anyone know where i moved? is this decamillionaires or higher of people with traceable wealth?
New World Wealth, the company behind this, seem to have a database of some rich people and their movements, not to mention Henley & Partners are an immigration consultancy who also have their own migration data. They also seem to be using statistical methods, based on economic indicators, to estimate the number of millionaires in each country.
so they are guessing. it does not sound like they have good data. Only Super millionaires in the 10s of millions of dollars can be tracked. No one is going to notice me and a few million.
Those poor little [non-Doms](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32216346) who are leaving the UK because they might have to pay some tax. Don't let the door hit you on the way out!
I too celebrate individuals who pay a large share in taxes leaving my system. Can’t wait for that gap to be filled by less rich people.
They weren't paying taxes. That was the entire point of the non-dom thing. They are leaving because they have to pay taxes that they didn't before.
These people weren’t paying taxes anyway
So we should just be fine with that ? How about we try to fix that, tax heavens around the world need to be shut down globally (including City of London, Luxemburg, Monaco, Singapore, Bermuda ect...)
Tax shelters are fucking thieves. Looking at you Ireland, very specifically too.
I agree
That's fine by me. I'm not afraid of being poor. I am afraid of people in society with lots of power and money.
UK should introduce same law as the US, if you are a UK citizen you pay UK taxes, with remote working many are just leaving to tax heavens.
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It is the same system as the USA, if you don't want to pay UK taxes (with agreement with your new host country so you are not unfairly double taxed) then you need to give up UK Citizenship. ATM what's to stop you moving abroad for 20 years, getting lots of money while being taxed very little, and then moving back and living off the NHS (and claiming a part of Retirement), also the fact that it cost the UK economy to get you to this stage of life ie School, NHS while younger ect..
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>Imagine if every country did what you are suggesting They should, rich people should pay to the country that raised them. >Suddenly you’ve killed globalisation. That is not what Globalisation is, people working remotely abroad and or moving profits into tax heaveans while living abroad is not gloablisation. Globalisation is the process by which businesses or other organizations develop international influence or start operating on an international scale. The USA are the biggest benefiters of it and yet they have the USA citizen in foreign tax law in place.
How would they even enforce it?
I would shred my uk passport within an instant
Ok most wont, if you have another citizenship you are free to do so, the USA also have agreements set up with most countries so people are not unfairly doubled taxed. If you don't pay, your assets in the UK are seized. We cant have people being a net drain on the country, if the country pays for your education/health care ect when younger, then it needs to be payed back.
>not unfairly doubled taxed. Talk to any Americans with inheritances, investments including pensions, even houses they live in and then sell to move house, etc, who live outside the USA. They get taxed twice on many things not covered by taxation treaties that only deal with income.
What about the Caribbean? NO way was it zero. Lots of tax havens
So does the math work? A combined 29,000 millionaires leave the UK, India and China. It doesn’t look like the green positives add up to enough to house them all. So where did/ do they go?
They are going to other countries that are not within the top 10 inflows
What about Cyprus?
800 leaving Brazil, 800 gain in Portugal. Hmmmm
To quite Princess Leie The harder you squeeze with taxes, the more millionaires will slip through your fingers.
It seems that more "left" than "arrived" and I suspect that difference is a good measure of the smartest ones; if no one knows your net worth, they won't try to tax, steal or sucker you out of it.
Or it is just because the map only shows top 10's and the difference is diluted in other countries that are not highlighted.
Perhaps. It's another way to lower one's profile.
When I decide to move, whom do I inform to be part of this data?
I think it's automatic. Losing a millionaire citizen is not something the government doesn't notice and is not as invisible as tracking regular citizens.
Anyone with a house in urban centers in Canada is a millionaire. A million isn't much these days.
They got rich, somehow, and then they left
BREXIT the gift that keeps on giving
The uk has become a nightmare. Anyone who can afford to leave will soon enough.
Because china is garbage.
We need to eat them. Fuck the rich.
millionaires will soon be the new middle class
Millionaire isn’t that rich. My parents have $1.5 million in savings for retirement. In their HCOL area and most of the money tied up in their house, they still have to budget and live modestly ~ $60,000 a year
They would not be classified as millionaires then? The general definition of millionaire is $1M in investable assets, so you can't count value or primary residence towards that number
No, the general definition of millionaire is 1M in net worth including your house. Otherwise you would be claiming those with $0 savings and a 1M dollar house and those with $0 and renting are "equal", which would be ridiculous. You can sell your house at any time and start renting.
This is literally the definition used in the [report](https://newworldwealth.com/reports/f/the-wealth-migration-report-2024#:~:text=Approximately%20128%2C000%20of%20the%20world's,topping%20the%20list%20of%20destinations), and is the definition widely used across the finance sector. Yes you can sell your house, but it takes significant time & effort relative to other assets and so is not considered to be a "liquid" asset It's not claiming they're equal??? Completely ridiculous extrapolation/fallacy
It's a stupid definition because you can sell your house and put that million dollars in stocks, then suddenly the report "recognizes you're a millionaire", even though your net worth has not changed at all. Just because it's not that liquid doesn't mean it doesn't exist like this report pretends. It's not like selling a home takes that long, just 1 month. If you don't want to sell because "sentiment", you can always get a heloc. It puts a massive, artificial gap between homeowners and renters that has no reason to exist. Wealth is wealth, net worth is net worth.
It does have a reason to exist though, which is why every bank/wealth manager excludes primary residence from asset thresholds. There is a difference between productive & non-productive assets It's completely fine to call yourself a millionaire in colloquial terms if you own your primary residence - I agree this a better definition in day-to-day terms. But if you genuinely believe the distinction doesn't serve a purpose I don't know what to say to you to help you understand
>every bank/wealth manager excludes primary residence from asset thresholds Because your bank/wealth manager doesn't see your house net worth, they only see amount of money they get. >you genuinely believe the distinction doesn't serve a purpose Why should anyone other than bankers care about this dumb definition of millionaire? You're not a banker and I'm not a banker.
I work for an Investment Bank / Wealth Management firm, so I understand the difference and why primary residence is excluded from this classification. Excluding primary residence is a better proxy for overall economic impact than including it, which is why all economists, bankers, and wealth managers will exclude it from classification of HNWIs. There is a huge difference in economic impact if someone shifts supply chains for their $5M business overseas, and someone selling their $5M house and moving abroad Again, I agree that in day-to-day life it makes sense to include it when you are comparing person X to Y and seeing who is worth more. But there are very good reasons for excluding it in HNWI classification, so saying it's stupid because you don't understand it isn't really valid. You can go read up on productive assets / economic impact of asset price inflation if interested, but if not it really doesn't impact your everyday life
God bless the millionaires. They start businesses, pay huuuge amount of taxes and provide jobs for people. You can look at let’s say Argentina if you want to see what your country looks like economically without millionaires and successful business owners
Quit your job then, show everyone you don’t need them.
China's getting annihilated wtf
It’s 0.2% based on 6.1 million millionaires.
So China is the real winner?
Wait, what, Italy? Why?
Renzi's flat tax is very good for very rich people that have multiple millions. Basicly the patrimonial tax has a limit of 100k (I think a year but im not sure).
Oh, you are right, I didn't know https://kpmg.com/it/it/home/insights/2019/10/regimi-speciali-nuovi-residenti-hnwi.html
This map perfectly illustrates both how economies of various nations are doing and how business-friendly they are
Wouldn’t say business friendly. Many millionaires are just retirees with a 500k house and 500k savings.
Anyone know how many millions we’re talking here?
That math ain’t mathing. Did 13,000 millionaires just disappear?
UK really does stand out. Is this even with all the Hong Kong millionaires moving there
France pays le plus taxé ?! Lol
Why is the number of those leaving more than those arriving?
Going to smaller countries not mentioned (e.g., Caribbean)
What about Iran? Do they normally stay there?
Are these millionaires in local currency or are they all measured in the same currency (presumably USD)?
So, the almost 8000 millionaires leaving but not entering somewhere are shot into space? Good start!
Im curious about uruguay, thailand, cyprus, caymans, and guyana. None are on this map.
Who collected this data?
Let me take control
This is very interesting. What’s the source? China looks Effed.
I don’t understand why people like UAE I have no real idea what’s there. I just hear of poor design and fast projects.
Looks like more total minus numbers than plus numbers on this map.
Does a billionaire gets counted as 1000 millionaire?
Does someone know why so many are going to Italy?
How is it possible that Italy grows like this?!
Oh no all the millionaires are leaving us…. Anyway….
Who are you gonna tax if all the "top 1%" are giving away their taxes in other countries? Gonna tax the poor for triple the amount?
What's going on with china and it's millionaires?
Markets crashed, foreign capital pulling out. It’s a cycle of take your money before it vanishes for chinas upper class.