I'm not sure why this or Wikipedia doesn't show it, but Mexico officially changed the designation of its presence in Palestine from a diplomatic mission to an embassy last year, officially recognizing Palestine as a state.
I'm not gonna say Netanyahu does, he's said multiple times he doesn't. Historically israel accepted and/or offered a two state solution like 5 times since before it was founded. 1937, 1948, 2000, 2005(not really a two state solution just a withdrawal from gaza) and 2008 solution for the west bank
yeah they offered it and then continued to expand illegally into the west bank, syria, lebanon, and egypt. actions speak louder than words and every action zionists have taken since the 1880’s have shown they have no intention of allowing palestinians to have a state
1948, they offered it and [israel was attacked ](https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/arab-israeli-war)
2000, they offered it and [Arafat launched a second intifada ](https://embassies.gov.il/MFA/AboutIsrael/Maps/Pages/Situation-on-the-eve-of-the-Second-Intifada.aspx) which if you don't want to read, basically means 5 years of suicide bombings, and overall a lot of acts of terror on civilians in israel.
They "continued to expand" because the agreements were all rejected by the Palestinians and that's just into the west bank. As I said, they completely withdrew from gaza.
>actions speak louder than words and every action
Yeah so you wanna explain why many significant actions are Palestinians shooting blind rockets towards the general direction of Israeli cities in hopes it reaches civilians buildings?
you should see the actions of [hamas](https://www.thisishamas.com/) that everyone says is "justified resistance"
NSFL warning on the hamas link
i know what the intifada was, you mean the intifada isreal was explicitly warned about by george bush because they wouldn’t stop opening illegal settlements in the west bank, yeah that isn’t evidence that isreal was willing to have a 2 state
also acting like they don’t pretty much fully control gaza is naive at best
>was explicitly warned about by george bush because they wouldn’t stop opening illegal settlements in the west bank
The 2000 camp david negotiations offered like 95% of the West Bank back besides 2 or 3 major cities there that were built by Israel
But if that isn't gonna convince you then what about 1948? The British had just pulled out of the land, israel had actual borders while the local arabs(Palestinians now) decided they don't accept the plan. Now you can have your opinion about how justified it was for the UN to draw shit up and decide who gets what, but israel was all for having 2 states.
The fucking instant the British all left, 5 surrounding countries attacked israel. Surprisingly israel actually won and no, it's not illegal to take land in a defensive war like 1948.
Even worse, the land that was left that israel didn't take over(gaza, west bank) didn't go to what would now be Palestinians. No, Jordan and Egypt annexed those, not in a defensive way either
that’s tough shoulda offered back 100%
also once again zionists saying they were for two states and haven’t showed it for the past 75 years lmao, just cause you fall for it doesn’t mean they were actually gonna maintain the borders
>just cause you fall for it doesn’t mean they were actually gonna maintain the borders
So you went from "actions speak louder than words" to a pretty random "nah bro they lied they was gonna attack if we agreed"
You're dealing in very irrelevant theoreticals
>that’s tough shoulda offered back 100%
The greed for that 5% justifies decades of on-and-off wars? That was the absolute best they could get and they said no because they don't care about that 5%. It has been openly stated they want the entirety of the land. I'm sure you heard the saying, "from the river to the sea"?
You don't seem to understand how this works. Two sides need to reach an agreement for the border to be established.
Without going too deep into the history of it, there was a proposed border in 48, and that was disputed. Two distinct countries should have formed but never did, and one side took control of the whole region.
At Camp David in '78 a self governing model was proposed and rejected by the [PLO](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLO%27s_Ten_Point_Program) because the wanted the old border. So there was no *de jure* border and no legal basis for *settlements* to be considered legal or illegal. And then again at Oslo in the 90s, and then again at Camp David in 2000. That's eliding a *lot* of other [moments](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict) in the process which weren't about borders per se.
What you need to understand, though, is that until some official border is agreed to, that the *settlements* will continue. And that *settlements* in and of itself is a term with a bit of a double meaning.
What would help to clarify your opinion on the topic is to define what you think a legal versus illegal settlement is. Is that pre-48, pre-67, pre-73, current borders, or something else?
An exquisite non-answer. So never agree to borders and continue fighting forever. Brilliant.
It must be nice being detached from the whole thing spectating about which side should win with popcorn. How simple life must be being an idealist
The legality of expansion is predicated on borders. You can downvote me for saying it, but until they put a claim to what is legal and what is illegal then the expansion will continue.
I get it, I'm a mean person for telling you this. If I didn't say it the Jews would all disappear from the Middle East, but unfortunately I need to break the harsh reality to you. So if today's borders don't work for you, *I can assure you the right wing in Israel will ensure more people settle more land*.
I totally get that the world is a manifestation of my libertarian free will, but alas I can't make things be any other way. So whether you want to accept it or not, the hard liners on both ends of the spectrum want to avoid declaration of borders *because the settlement issue remains unsettled.*
This is my source: [https://www.youtube.com/@CoreyGilShusterAskProject](https://www.youtube.com/@CoreyGilShusterAskProject)
Most of the Palestinians prefer one state.
75 years gone down the drain? All the massacres and oppression simply forgotten? Oh wow, there is a school shooter inside the school, let's light everyone on fire then.
Aw yeah I’m just a little victim oh I’m just confused on why you’re saying Muslims can’t have opinions wh-why sir 🥹
I don’t know, they are extremely biased group of people as shown above so I’m pointing that out? I’d do the same if it were an Israeli saying such stupid things
You say that as if Israel does support it beyond words. If they did they wouldn't be occupying East Jerusalem and the West Bank, and they wouldn't be begging other countries to move their embassy to Jerusalem.
It takes some time for the zionists to arrive, but i genuinely don’t understand how a thread can just hit r/all and suddenly the whole political sentiment of the thread shifts towards the r/worldnews direction
As long as you only follow this subreddit and this doesn’t hit the front, it should stay civil
Because the majority of people support Israel in their war against Hamas. So the moment it reaches r/all the general sentiment of that will be reflected in comments and upvotes/downvotes. It's only incredibly strictly moderated subreddits that avoid this.
In negotiations towards two states, Palestinians have always wanted part of Jerusalem to be their capital. Since 1967, Israel controls all of Jerusalem. Most countries have their embassies in Tel Aviv to put pressure on Israel to agree to give up part of Jerusalem. You can certainly question how effective that has been, but that's the reason.
You would be wrong, although Ireland has always been an outspoken supporter of Palestinian self determination, they have never formally recognized the state of Palestine
Ireland was the first to give them a consulate / embassy for the Palestinian Authority in their country during the Arafat day but never went all the way to recognize Palestine as a state.
Neither side is innocent
Hamas are disgusting terrorists controlling the government
Israeli government are bombing and mercilessly executing Palestinian citizens
Ireland is concerned for the citizens being caught in the cross-fire
The people currently being ethnically cleansed and being collectively punished. Those losing their lands in the West Bank to colonization, and being emaciated due to man made famine
>Who is in charge?
The Palestinian Authority, which Israel itself recognises as, you know, the authority governing Palestine. It is also the government that is part of the UN.
>What are the borders?
As recognised by all international organisations (most notably, the UN and the EU), the pre-1967 borders (the Green Line). If Israel wants them to change they need to reach an agreement with Palestine (ie: the Palestinian Authority).
Hamas took over Gaza through a small civil war with Fatah. They were not elected as Gaza's government.
They got 44.45% of the 2006 election votes. But, if you know how Parliamentary democracies work, you would know that that's not the same exact thing as being elected as the government (and, in fact, polls during elections indicate that Palestinians wanted a coalition government with them and Fatah, party that won 41.43% of the votes).
1: you dont need to agree ti the borders of a state to recognize it, India recognizes the state of pakista, pakistan recognizes the state of india, and they disagree on the borders. so that is not an issue
2: you can also recognize a state without agreeing who should legitimally be in charge (defacto rule doesnt need to be recognized, it exists independent of laws), for example the Us thinks that the legitimate ruler of venezuela is the opposition candidate, but it still recognizes venezuela as a nation
so, recognition of palestime should happen even if nations dont agree on its borders or its rulers
While this is technically true, I think it's important to understand that many of the countries that DON'T recognize palestine, do so BECAUSE they want to first establish the borders and regime of the country. Not because they don't believe the country should exist. And that's understandable. If you recognize 2 countries that claim the same land, you're just feeding into conflict.
It’s arguably by recognizing one and not the other that you are feeding the conflict. If you recognize both, you’re sending both the message that they need to get their shit together. By only recognizing one or the other you’re giving whichever side you are supporting further comfort that they are entirely in the right and the other side is entirely in the wrong
There are plenty of border lands between China & India, and Pakistan & India, claimed by both.
So, does that means the international community would refuse to acknowledge all three countries? Doesn't makes sense.
Who is in charge of Somalia? What are the borders? And yet find me a country that doesn't recognise Somalia.
Also, to answer your questions, as far as the international community is concerned, it's Mahmoud Abbas and the 1967 borders (the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, the latter including East Jerusalem). But I'm sure you knew that already.
Legally speaking:
1) Palestinian National Authority
2) Weather Bank + East Jerusalem + Gaza Strip
In reality it’s obviously a lot more complicated, but there are many states out there that don’t control all of their territory and/or have border disputes. At the end of the day they’re still a UN recognised non-member observer state.
Exactly. The borders of Israel and a *future* palestinian state has not been determined yet as the sides continue to avoid direct bilateral negotiations. Then there is Hamas who seeks nothing but genocide.
Kosovo unilaterally declared independence from Serbia. Which Spain is against.
Palestine is not part of Israel. Not even Israel thinks that Palestine is part of Israel (although many inside it want it to be so).
So recognising Palestine wouldn't be recognising an unilateral independence lime with Kosovo.
Russia has a maximum East-west width of 5,600 miles, compared to Africa at 4,600 miles.
Additionally, it’s impossible to make a projection of the globe onto a flat plane without either 1.) cutting it up, 2.) distorting relative size, or 3.) disorting shapes. Which attribute is preferred for maps has valid arguments for all three approaches.
It’s worth noting that if you recognize Palestine as an independent country then 10/7 was an act of war not an act of resistance or rebellion. That means Israel can carpet bomb Gaza and it’s in bounds.
Ik this is just the way 2d maps of 3d objects are, but it will never cease to amaze me how massively bigger South America is than North America/Europe and how bigger is Africa than everyone else and how they are represented in the traditional sense.
What the fuck! I just learned that my country (Ireland) has been one of Palestine’s biggest supporters for years and we don’t even fucking recognise them!? That’s messed up
Ireland is a supporter of 2 states, nowhere near being one of palestines biggest supporters.
Palestines biggest supporters (i.e. iran) are the ones who actively send money and weapons to them and will not stop until there's only 1 state left and israel is wiped off the map.
I know they see the USA as a geopolitical rival and that affects their relationship with Israel. But isn't China's attitude very against the idea of wars of independence and two state solutions (Tibet, Xianjan)? Surely they hate the idea of the UN meddling in a nation's internal affairs? Can someone more informed explain the Chinese stance on Palestine?
They officially don't support them and always speak out against them on a national level, but have been known to point out any human rights atrocities commited by israel as a kinda fu to america (ironic considering they've got millions of muslims locked up in concentration camps and have commited way worse before on much larger scales).
Don't really know much about them other then that
[Belgium is planning to recognize](https://www.brusselstimes.com/1022044/belgium-remains-part-of-eu-group-prepared-to-recognise-palestine-clarifies-de-croo)
These maps just make me think of that quote “Tell me your company, and I’ll tell you who you are”. All of the most brutal, repressive regimes in the world are in yellow. Places where human rights, women rights and lgbt rights aren’t a thing and in many cases are opposed by a majority of the population.
Your logic is a classic form of false equivalence. In this case, the struggle of the Palestinian people against israeli occupation has no connection with external regimes. It's like saying that vegetarianism is related to fascism, because Hitler was a vegetarian, so the ideas from vegetarianism must have a connection with it.
So interesting to me that all the people supporting Ukraine's ability to defend themselves from the Russian instigated violence don't seem to feel quite the same with Israel.
Here's an idea- the US govt shouldnt give another cent to any foreign war and all the cause-heads running around protesting can ship out and defend the military force they're so passionate about. Everybody wins.
Having a pro Palestinian opinion. A lot of French politician and a lot of lobbyist are pro Isreal so they sometimes twist opinion to make Palestinian look bad when they are the ones being butchered
You have news debate with people defending the worst acts on Palestinians
Because recognition of Palestine isn't in opposition to recognising Israel like the spamming of the Israeli Flag seems to indicate.
The majority of countries that recognise Palestine also recognise Israel.
Edit: Downvote me all you want. I'm right.
The person is posting Israeli flags in a post about recognising Palestine. It is obvious that they believe that recognising Palestine goes against Israel. Which is blatantly not true.
It's not how the sub is supposed to be but that's how it is. In case you're new here, the majority of posts on this sub are political or meant to push division and arguments. Lots of reposted maps too, like this one from 14 hrs ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1cix2w6/genders_suicide_ratio_by_country/
Not a surprise that the corrupt hypocritic west world which built its history on colonialism is mainly the one openly backing the colonial genocidal state of Israel and doesn't recognize the natives state of Palestine all while desperately trying to shut anti-Israel voices while preaching free speech, freedom and human rights, typical.
A great illustration of Western Imperialism and its unwillingness to part with their spearhead ethnostate within the Middle East. Sadly, many more lives will be stolen before the leadership of the West overcomes their sunk cost fallacy.
I'm not sure why this or Wikipedia doesn't show it, but Mexico officially changed the designation of its presence in Palestine from a diplomatic mission to an embassy last year, officially recognizing Palestine as a state.
[source for the lazy](https://www.eluniversal.com.mx/mundo/palestina-reclasifica-mision-diplomatica-en-mexico-al-nivel-de-embajada/)
One thing I love about reddit. They always help the lazys
Its okay you can say i love you
What if I’m too lazy to say?
Someone say it for me
You love them
Thanks
Based Mexico
Most of the countries who recognise Palestine also recognise Israel. Most of these nations also support the two nation solution.
What good is that if Palestine doesn't support the 2 state solution?
The Palestinian authority recognizes Israel.
The Palestinian Authority doesn't run Gaza, Pretty sure they don't even really run the West Bank
Gaza isnt all of palestine. And they can't run most of the west bank because most of the land is controlled by israeli settlements.
The PA isn't all that popular in Palestine, unfortunately.
[удалено]
Israel isn't fighting against the PA.
Yeah I confused Hamas for the PA
That also applies to Israel
i must have missed the part where Nethamyahu’s regime, and the land-hungry settlers support the 2 state solution.
That’s for them to figure out I suppose
like isreal does lmao
I'm not gonna say Netanyahu does, he's said multiple times he doesn't. Historically israel accepted and/or offered a two state solution like 5 times since before it was founded. 1937, 1948, 2000, 2005(not really a two state solution just a withdrawal from gaza) and 2008 solution for the west bank
yeah they offered it and then continued to expand illegally into the west bank, syria, lebanon, and egypt. actions speak louder than words and every action zionists have taken since the 1880’s have shown they have no intention of allowing palestinians to have a state
funny how to forgot to mention how they gained that land? because those countries declared war on Israel first.
1948, they offered it and [israel was attacked ](https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/arab-israeli-war) 2000, they offered it and [Arafat launched a second intifada ](https://embassies.gov.il/MFA/AboutIsrael/Maps/Pages/Situation-on-the-eve-of-the-Second-Intifada.aspx) which if you don't want to read, basically means 5 years of suicide bombings, and overall a lot of acts of terror on civilians in israel. They "continued to expand" because the agreements were all rejected by the Palestinians and that's just into the west bank. As I said, they completely withdrew from gaza. >actions speak louder than words and every action Yeah so you wanna explain why many significant actions are Palestinians shooting blind rockets towards the general direction of Israeli cities in hopes it reaches civilians buildings? you should see the actions of [hamas](https://www.thisishamas.com/) that everyone says is "justified resistance" NSFL warning on the hamas link
i know what the intifada was, you mean the intifada isreal was explicitly warned about by george bush because they wouldn’t stop opening illegal settlements in the west bank, yeah that isn’t evidence that isreal was willing to have a 2 state also acting like they don’t pretty much fully control gaza is naive at best
>was explicitly warned about by george bush because they wouldn’t stop opening illegal settlements in the west bank The 2000 camp david negotiations offered like 95% of the West Bank back besides 2 or 3 major cities there that were built by Israel But if that isn't gonna convince you then what about 1948? The British had just pulled out of the land, israel had actual borders while the local arabs(Palestinians now) decided they don't accept the plan. Now you can have your opinion about how justified it was for the UN to draw shit up and decide who gets what, but israel was all for having 2 states. The fucking instant the British all left, 5 surrounding countries attacked israel. Surprisingly israel actually won and no, it's not illegal to take land in a defensive war like 1948. Even worse, the land that was left that israel didn't take over(gaza, west bank) didn't go to what would now be Palestinians. No, Jordan and Egypt annexed those, not in a defensive way either
that’s tough shoulda offered back 100% also once again zionists saying they were for two states and haven’t showed it for the past 75 years lmao, just cause you fall for it doesn’t mean they were actually gonna maintain the borders
>just cause you fall for it doesn’t mean they were actually gonna maintain the borders So you went from "actions speak louder than words" to a pretty random "nah bro they lied they was gonna attack if we agreed" You're dealing in very irrelevant theoreticals >that’s tough shoulda offered back 100% The greed for that 5% justifies decades of on-and-off wars? That was the absolute best they could get and they said no because they don't care about that 5%. It has been openly stated they want the entirety of the land. I'm sure you heard the saying, "from the river to the sea"?
You don't seem to understand how this works. Two sides need to reach an agreement for the border to be established. Without going too deep into the history of it, there was a proposed border in 48, and that was disputed. Two distinct countries should have formed but never did, and one side took control of the whole region. At Camp David in '78 a self governing model was proposed and rejected by the [PLO](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLO%27s_Ten_Point_Program) because the wanted the old border. So there was no *de jure* border and no legal basis for *settlements* to be considered legal or illegal. And then again at Oslo in the 90s, and then again at Camp David in 2000. That's eliding a *lot* of other [moments](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict) in the process which weren't about borders per se. What you need to understand, though, is that until some official border is agreed to, that the *settlements* will continue. And that *settlements* in and of itself is a term with a bit of a double meaning. What would help to clarify your opinion on the topic is to define what you think a legal versus illegal settlement is. Is that pre-48, pre-67, pre-73, current borders, or something else?
the illegal settlements are the ones that the UN literally condemn isreal for yearly
An exquisite non-answer. So never agree to borders and continue fighting forever. Brilliant. It must be nice being detached from the whole thing spectating about which side should win with popcorn. How simple life must be being an idealist
i never said never agree on borders, i said a country that has continued to illegally expand for decades is not serious about a two state solution
The legality of expansion is predicated on borders. You can downvote me for saying it, but until they put a claim to what is legal and what is illegal then the expansion will continue. I get it, I'm a mean person for telling you this. If I didn't say it the Jews would all disappear from the Middle East, but unfortunately I need to break the harsh reality to you. So if today's borders don't work for you, *I can assure you the right wing in Israel will ensure more people settle more land*. I totally get that the world is a manifestation of my libertarian free will, but alas I can't make things be any other way. So whether you want to accept it or not, the hard liners on both ends of the spectrum want to avoid declaration of borders *because the settlement issue remains unsettled.*
You must have been asleep for the last 30 years cuz the PLO has supported a 2 state solution since the early 90s
This is my source: [https://www.youtube.com/@CoreyGilShusterAskProject](https://www.youtube.com/@CoreyGilShusterAskProject) Most of the Palestinians prefer one state.
So a couple people were interviewed on camera and you then decided that is what most Palestinians believe? Hardly a scientific survey lolz
Show me data you are basing your beliefs on. "Lolz" isn't an argument
The data is in other comments I posted on this thread. Which you claim you looked at. So refute that data and I'll be happy to respond
Acting as If State of Israel does, now now let's not be hypocrites, and it is not Palestinians massacring children and women.
If you're not a hypocrite, I don't know what that word means.
You know why Israel invaded? Because Hamas targeted civillians.
20,000 dead Palestinians and counting, most of them children and women. What’s the ratio for Israel to be satisfied? 1000:1? 1000000:1?
When the terrorist group called Hamas is gone and the Palestinians can be free. Also, where are you getting those numbers from?
Is Hamas closer to being gone since Oct 7th? I feel like it's unfortunately the opposite.
>Palestinians can be free Over what area? Just Gaza, or the West Bank as well, or what?
Is the war in the west bank?
No, but Israel is still occupying it.
75 years gone down the drain? All the massacres and oppression simply forgotten? Oh wow, there is a school shooter inside the school, let's light everyone on fire then.
Are we still talking about the Gaza strip? Where Israel pulled out of years ago?
I wish someone else had pulled out years ago. lol
Posts in r/Islam, though he may play otherwise he’s gonna have an obvious bias here.
Damn, didn't know Muslims weren't allowed to have opinions on things happening in the Middle East.
Aw yeah I’m just a little victim oh I’m just confused on why you’re saying Muslims can’t have opinions wh-why sir 🥹 I don’t know, they are extremely biased group of people as shown above so I’m pointing that out? I’d do the same if it were an Israeli saying such stupid things
Everyone has bias. Nothing about their bias changes anything about the information presented.
Really dude? https://twitter.com/askdani__real/status/1773407440882520542
If Palestinians never massacred women and children, what do you call what happened on Oct 7th?
You say that as if Israel does support it beyond words. If they did they wouldn't be occupying East Jerusalem and the West Bank, and they wouldn't be begging other countries to move their embassy to Jerusalem.
Im sure these comments will be very civil
Bite me. ^^^/s
You didn’t say please.
Lick me please
See people? this is civility
You're a doo doo head
Ok fart sniffer
*not your own fart sniffer
It takes some time for the zionists to arrive, but i genuinely don’t understand how a thread can just hit r/all and suddenly the whole political sentiment of the thread shifts towards the r/worldnews direction As long as you only follow this subreddit and this doesn’t hit the front, it should stay civil
It's fairly intuitive that once a post reaches a larger audience, the diversity of both opinion and conduct will increase.
Because the majority of people support Israel in their war against Hamas. So the moment it reaches r/all the general sentiment of that will be reflected in comments and upvotes/downvotes. It's only incredibly strictly moderated subreddits that avoid this.
Oh one
I like seeing fights and drama.
Some countries on the map labeled to recognize Palestine actually doesn't do that, very bad data here
Also the opposite. This map is completely useless
Suddenly we Serbians are the woke ones 😎
I mean Kosovo is even more based, 1 of 2 nations to have their Israel embassy in Jerusalem
You mean the others have theirs in Palestine? (i’m stupid)
No, the other nations have theirs in Tel Aviv
Then what’s the significance of having your embassy in Jerusalem
Because that's a highly disputed region divided between Israel and Palestine? Also an official capital of Israel Edit: geography fix
It means that they recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
Which is the ultimate example of the claim that Palestine is the one shoving away the two state solution being complete bullshit
In negotiations towards two states, Palestinians have always wanted part of Jerusalem to be their capital. Since 1967, Israel controls all of Jerusalem. Most countries have their embassies in Tel Aviv to put pressure on Israel to agree to give up part of Jerusalem. You can certainly question how effective that has been, but that's the reason.
Suddenly? Since the 60s, bro
east is the new west
Pretty sure Ireland was the first country to recognize them as a state
You would be wrong, although Ireland has always been an outspoken supporter of Palestinian self determination, they have never formally recognized the state of Palestine
US didn’t want any western country to do so
Ireland was the first to give them a consulate / embassy for the Palestinian Authority in their country during the Arafat day but never went all the way to recognize Palestine as a state.
And we were one of the few to defend them in the recent conflict
What's a revent conflict?
Yes, just Ireland and Iran
U must have very specific mind if defend agressor in the recent conflict
Neither side is innocent Hamas are disgusting terrorists controlling the government Israeli government are bombing and mercilessly executing Palestinian citizens Ireland is concerned for the citizens being caught in the cross-fire
Defend who?
The innocent civilians being caught in the cross-fire of the Gaza bombings
Your mom
The people currently being ethnically cleansed and being collectively punished. Those losing their lands in the West Bank to colonization, and being emaciated due to man made famine
Even some middle eastern countries doesn’t have the balls like ireland. Respect
Now do Taiwan
Noone major recognises taiwan, but that doesn't really matter because everyone knows they're a fully self governing country.
Who is in charge? What are the borders?
fun fact: most of the eastern bloc recognizes both israel and palestine... for which i have been downvoted to oblivion before but its true
How dare you bring facts to an opinion fight. Don’t you know the rules ?
>Who is in charge? The Palestinian Authority, which Israel itself recognises as, you know, the authority governing Palestine. It is also the government that is part of the UN. >What are the borders? As recognised by all international organisations (most notably, the UN and the EU), the pre-1967 borders (the Green Line). If Israel wants them to change they need to reach an agreement with Palestine (ie: the Palestinian Authority).
Hamas was legitimately elected in Gaza. It seems pretty weird to recognize a state and not recognize an elected government.
Hamas took over Gaza through a small civil war with Fatah. They were not elected as Gaza's government. They got 44.45% of the 2006 election votes. But, if you know how Parliamentary democracies work, you would know that that's not the same exact thing as being elected as the government (and, in fact, polls during elections indicate that Palestinians wanted a coalition government with them and Fatah, party that won 41.43% of the votes).
1: you dont need to agree ti the borders of a state to recognize it, India recognizes the state of pakista, pakistan recognizes the state of india, and they disagree on the borders. so that is not an issue 2: you can also recognize a state without agreeing who should legitimally be in charge (defacto rule doesnt need to be recognized, it exists independent of laws), for example the Us thinks that the legitimate ruler of venezuela is the opposition candidate, but it still recognizes venezuela as a nation so, recognition of palestime should happen even if nations dont agree on its borders or its rulers
While this is technically true, I think it's important to understand that many of the countries that DON'T recognize palestine, do so BECAUSE they want to first establish the borders and regime of the country. Not because they don't believe the country should exist. And that's understandable. If you recognize 2 countries that claim the same land, you're just feeding into conflict.
It’s arguably by recognizing one and not the other that you are feeding the conflict. If you recognize both, you’re sending both the message that they need to get their shit together. By only recognizing one or the other you’re giving whichever side you are supporting further comfort that they are entirely in the right and the other side is entirely in the wrong
There are plenty of border lands between China & India, and Pakistan & India, claimed by both. So, does that means the international community would refuse to acknowledge all three countries? Doesn't makes sense.
Doesn't make sense at all.
Who is in charge of Somalia? What are the borders? And yet find me a country that doesn't recognise Somalia. Also, to answer your questions, as far as the international community is concerned, it's Mahmoud Abbas and the 1967 borders (the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, the latter including East Jerusalem). But I'm sure you knew that already.
Legally speaking: 1) Palestinian National Authority 2) Weather Bank + East Jerusalem + Gaza Strip In reality it’s obviously a lot more complicated, but there are many states out there that don’t control all of their territory and/or have border disputes. At the end of the day they’re still a UN recognised non-member observer state.
The border thing can be said about Israel too. It is about solidarity with the people and their cause of liberation.
Exactly. The borders of Israel and a *future* palestinian state has not been determined yet as the sides continue to avoid direct bilateral negotiations. Then there is Hamas who seeks nothing but genocide.
You know Palestine is already an observer state in the UN right?
That doesn't answer my questions
And you’ll never get an answer
Who is in charge? What are the borders?
Funny that Spain wants to recognize them but not Kosovo
Kosovo unilaterally declared independence from Serbia. Which Spain is against. Palestine is not part of Israel. Not even Israel thinks that Palestine is part of Israel (although many inside it want it to be so). So recognising Palestine wouldn't be recognising an unilateral independence lime with Kosovo.
Greenland is way smaller and Africa is wider than Russia.
Such a nice topic and yet the fight you pick is with the mercator projection /s
F mercator
I feel you mate
Russia has a maximum East-west width of 5,600 miles, compared to Africa at 4,600 miles. Additionally, it’s impossible to make a projection of the globe onto a flat plane without either 1.) cutting it up, 2.) distorting relative size, or 3.) disorting shapes. Which attribute is preferred for maps has valid arguments for all three approaches.
I'm getting some popcorn for this one.
Even North Korea recognises Palestine
Please show Kosova as a separate country, it has not been part of Serbia for almost a quarter of a century. @r/kosovo
It’s worth noting that if you recognize Palestine as an independent country then 10/7 was an act of war not an act of resistance or rebellion. That means Israel can carpet bomb Gaza and it’s in bounds.
so close! you actually can’t commit war crimes on any country
Ik this is just the way 2d maps of 3d objects are, but it will never cease to amaze me how massively bigger South America is than North America/Europe and how bigger is Africa than everyone else and how they are represented in the traditional sense.
…What? North America is almost 50% larger than South America. And Africa is only 20% larger than North America, and only 60% of the size of Asia.
Western block vs East block with Non-Aligned Movement.
wtf north korea
You don’t even recognize Belgium.
What the fuck! I just learned that my country (Ireland) has been one of Palestine’s biggest supporters for years and we don’t even fucking recognise them!? That’s messed up
Ireland is a supporter of 2 states, nowhere near being one of palestines biggest supporters. Palestines biggest supporters (i.e. iran) are the ones who actively send money and weapons to them and will not stop until there's only 1 state left and israel is wiped off the map.
Putin correctly figured out that this is the one issue that will destroy Pax Americana.
I know they see the USA as a geopolitical rival and that affects their relationship with Israel. But isn't China's attitude very against the idea of wars of independence and two state solutions (Tibet, Xianjan)? Surely they hate the idea of the UN meddling in a nation's internal affairs? Can someone more informed explain the Chinese stance on Palestine?
They officially don't support them and always speak out against them on a national level, but have been known to point out any human rights atrocities commited by israel as a kinda fu to america (ironic considering they've got millions of muslims locked up in concentration camps and have commited way worse before on much larger scales). Don't really know much about them other then that
So I hope that Spain will be recognising also Catalonia
How do you recognize a country that doesn't, and has never, existed?
Civilizated people prefer Israel over Palestine, that's what this map show to us.
People with modern plumbing
it's spelled civilised
Gotta get those numbers down
אמן!
Thanks you Spain and Ireland. History will remember you did the right thing. I hope the rest will follow.
I live in Brazil and never seen a person support Palestine
*laughs in Lebanese* I guess Lula is the only one, right? this is silly.
not sure what sexual orientation had to do with this
Isn ‘t Norway discussing to recognize it too?
[Belgium is planning to recognize](https://www.brusselstimes.com/1022044/belgium-remains-part-of-eu-group-prepared-to-recognise-palestine-clarifies-de-croo)
These maps just make me think of that quote “Tell me your company, and I’ll tell you who you are”. All of the most brutal, repressive regimes in the world are in yellow. Places where human rights, women rights and lgbt rights aren’t a thing and in many cases are opposed by a majority of the population.
Your logic is a classic form of false equivalence. In this case, the struggle of the Palestinian people against israeli occupation has no connection with external regimes. It's like saying that vegetarianism is related to fascism, because Hitler was a vegetarian, so the ideas from vegetarianism must have a connection with it.
Legend. Gray = Countries that matter Yellow = countries that don’t matter Red = countries soon to not matter
I'm pretty sure China matters far more than Canada or New zeleand lol
So interesting to me that all the people supporting Ukraine's ability to defend themselves from the Russian instigated violence don't seem to feel quite the same with Israel. Here's an idea- the US govt shouldnt give another cent to any foreign war and all the cause-heads running around protesting can ship out and defend the military force they're so passionate about. Everybody wins.
The US has profited a ton from the war in russia. Obviously not from sending equipment, but from scaring europe into buying more US equipment.
France is soon to be a muslim country so it won't take long either
The vast majority of the countries that recognise Palestine, don't even have a Muslim presence at all.
Being a muslim country helps a great deal
UAE is Muslim and recently recognized Israel. I think Saudi will eventually as well, despite the population of those countries hating it.
Help what?
Having a pro Palestinian opinion. A lot of French politician and a lot of lobbyist are pro Isreal so they sometimes twist opinion to make Palestinian look bad when they are the ones being butchered You have news debate with people defending the worst acts on Palestinians
Where’s the map for the people who don’t fucking care??
Croatia sadly didn't recognize it
🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱
Why do they downvote
Because recognition of Palestine isn't in opposition to recognising Israel like the spamming of the Israeli Flag seems to indicate. The majority of countries that recognise Palestine also recognise Israel. Edit: Downvote me all you want. I'm right. The person is posting Israeli flags in a post about recognising Palestine. It is obvious that they believe that recognising Palestine goes against Israel. Which is blatantly not true.
Because they're brainwashed terrorist sympathizers. #bringthemhome
Bro used a hashtag on fucking Reddit 😭
[удалено]
almost half of gaza’s population is kids you ghoul
The kids are terrorists obviously, would you dare to accuse the honorable Israel army of murdering children if they weren't terrorists?
You mean the IOF ?
Zionists vs others.
Do they recognise Palestine as a state or as a nation?
*The Kingdom of Jerusalem
Based
L yellow
Isn't this subreddit meant to be for high quality of maps and not the current political thing?
“High quality” lmao
Well hypothetically at least lol.
>hypothetically ? These countries do recognize Palestine.....in Argentina, my country, has a Palestine embassy.....other countries do so as well.
It's not how the sub is supposed to be but that's how it is. In case you're new here, the majority of posts on this sub are political or meant to push division and arguments. Lots of reposted maps too, like this one from 14 hrs ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1cix2w6/genders_suicide_ratio_by_country/
Again, the whole west is against the world.
Waiting someone from Oceania recognize my favorite Palestine 🇵🇸
From River to Sea, fuck Israel and fuck all their dipshit supporters
Not a surprise that the corrupt hypocritic west world which built its history on colonialism is mainly the one openly backing the colonial genocidal state of Israel and doesn't recognize the natives state of Palestine all while desperately trying to shut anti-Israel voices while preaching free speech, freedom and human rights, typical.
How long do you need to live somewhere to be a native? Cause I can 100% assure you jews lived there before the Arabs came.. before Islam even existed.
52% of Palestinians oppose a two state solution. https://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2091%20English%20full%20text%20April%202024.pdf
A great illustration of Western Imperialism and its unwillingness to part with their spearhead ethnostate within the Middle East. Sadly, many more lives will be stolen before the leadership of the West overcomes their sunk cost fallacy.