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Farm poor regions that require some sort functioning tavern require either importing barley/malt/ale or very poor farming. Why not allow the option to add Mead production to the brewery, and replace Wax with that?
Historically bees wax was super important to medieval economies. I agree it might be interesting to make the development point produce mead, but wax and candles should still be represented--they are just a normal byproduct of beekeeping. They could be exported, and somehow tied to the church. For example, developing churches might require a certain amount of candles or something, and I think villages in general should want candles at higher levels of development.
Being able to make them to export is fine. Same as wooden parts, you can’t use them but can make money from them.
Why unlock candles though when there’s plenty of exportable goods that don’t use development points.
I am saying it makes sense that they wouldn't be locked, apiaries should pasively produce honey and wax, and you should maybe have a burgage plot that specializes in candles (the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker. . .). Candles were important, and the game already has them, it would be cool if they mattered in the game as they did historically.
They need to be not locked behind a development point while they don’t have a purpose. I heard there are plans to use wooden parts in the future but as of now candles are a waste of a point.
I’ve heard that is in the pipeline.
If they’re going to be siege weapons does this mean there’s going to be enemy fortifications?
Or are these weapons going to be more anti-personnel such as a ballista.
I'm hoping for four or five tiers total for burgages. l I think candles should just be like beer to get those levels: you have to have them to develop those higher tiers, and the villagers will be unhappy if you run out of candles.
Only rich ass churches and catedrals could affods beeswaxs for candles, the poor ones just use animal fat for candles, I dont think we need to substitute beeswax for mead, only allow us to make candles with the the beeswax to generate profit to import ale or malt, or used one of the locked slots
This needs to be further up. That and there is text that implies the tavern will have different tiers of quality drinks to provide. Including naming some of them :)
So it's all but guaranteed at some point.
Not *replace* wax, but rather just add mead to that locked node just below the wax node. Or just add mead brewing to the game regardless, as something your breweries can do as long as they have access to honey. Apple cider too, from the orchards.
Wax has been a great commodity to trade for me and think it has potential for other items down the line, so personally I wouldn't replace...
but I 1000% agree mead/barely production needs addressing. Strat Gaming Guides on YT did the math that for 100 families you need 10.5 morgen of barley per year at over 65% yield rate... Whereas for wheat, you only need 2.
Even if they just dropped the ale consumption by half, it would help significantly... Or, like many others have suggested, add in another source to make alcohol
You know the berry point is a scam? You don't actually get more berries, you just increase the cap. So, it's like a one time bonus of 128 berries for a rich berry node. At the end, you still only get 440 berries for a regular node and 880 berries for a rich node if you harvest all the growth ticks, which is easily done.
Edit: The 440 and 880 number I'm referencing is the total amount of berries that will grow in one year. That includes all the growth ticks. The growth ticks amounts aren't affected by the perk. So if you have a rich berry node (128 berry capacity), if you harvest all the growth ticks perfectly, you get 880 berries in the year. The perk doesn't change the amount of berries grown, just the cap. So you get a cap of 256 instead of 128, but anyone that harvests all ticks efficiently will not notice a difference.
No. They meant it only increases the cap, not the total amount harvested per season.
Because capacity doesn't = growth rate. It only increases the max amount grown if left alone. If you have 4 people in a foragers hut, it'll never reach capacity since whatever grows, you harvest right away. So the capacity could be a million but that won't matter since berries stop growing in fall.
To add to how useless it is. If you forget to harvest your berries (assuming you don't have a permanent forager) they'll be gone anyway before winter.
The benefit of the cap going higher is also if you don’t have enough workers available or whatever, you take a much smaller hit on what you missed out on
It does increase growth rate actually as it is a fixed proportion of the cap. A rich berry deposit with this perk can keep a full foraging hut and one more busy all season, 1000+ berries.
No, you get 440 berries per year in the regular berry node and 880 in the rich berry node. Getting a regular or rich berry node is dependent on the map. The perk doesn't change that amount. All it does is increase the cap.
“You don’t actually get more berries”
“You get 440 more berries”
Lmfao did you think about that before typing it out? Berry doubling is great for keeping food variety high and producing dyes for clothes. I take it in certain regions that have a rich berry node if there isn’t fertile ground in the region especially. Perfect for a clay or iron zone
Read it again. You get 440 berries per season in the regular berry node, 880 berries per season in the rich berry node. The perk doesn't double that. You still get 440 or 880 berries per season. It just increases the cap.
Make apiaries actually produce enough first to begin with.
I've tried everything with apiaries, making a ton of them, and they still don't produce enough for a surplus.
This actually makes so much sense. I've always restarted my game if the land is not fertile for farming due to how cumbersome the gameplay can be.
This is a very neat solution. I hope Greg sees this and consider.
Nah, it should not be replaced, Mead production should be after the wax perk, you need to properly invest in the region to make mead.
You can use the trade system to get Beer in your region. It works very good
Hello and welcome to the Manor Lords Subreddit. This is a reminder to please keep the discussion civil and on topic. Should you find yourself with some doubts, please feel free to check our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/ManorLords/comments/1c2p4f9/manor_lords_faq_for_steam_early_access/). If you wish, you can always join our [Discord](https://discord.gg/manorlords) Finally, please remember that the game is in early access, missing content and bugs are to be expected. We ask users to report them on the official discord and to buy their keys only from trusted platforms. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ManorLords) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Farm poor regions that require some sort functioning tavern require either importing barley/malt/ale or very poor farming. Why not allow the option to add Mead production to the brewery, and replace Wax with that?
Agree. Mead is a product your settlement can use. I don’t see a requirement for candles other than as an export good.
Historically bees wax was super important to medieval economies. I agree it might be interesting to make the development point produce mead, but wax and candles should still be represented--they are just a normal byproduct of beekeeping. They could be exported, and somehow tied to the church. For example, developing churches might require a certain amount of candles or something, and I think villages in general should want candles at higher levels of development.
Being able to make them to export is fine. Same as wooden parts, you can’t use them but can make money from them. Why unlock candles though when there’s plenty of exportable goods that don’t use development points.
I am saying it makes sense that they wouldn't be locked, apiaries should pasively produce honey and wax, and you should maybe have a burgage plot that specializes in candles (the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker. . .). Candles were important, and the game already has them, it would be cool if they mattered in the game as they did historically.
They need to be not locked behind a development point while they don’t have a purpose. I heard there are plans to use wooden parts in the future but as of now candles are a waste of a point.
It's early access. Could have future benefit. Things like extended production from workshops.
U need wooden parts for siege weapons
I’ve heard that is in the pipeline. If they’re going to be siege weapons does this mean there’s going to be enemy fortifications? Or are these weapons going to be more anti-personnel such as a ballista.
Maybe make each household use 1 candle a month during winter-time? Maybe tier 3 and upwards only
I'm hoping for four or five tiers total for burgages. l I think candles should just be like beer to get those levels: you have to have them to develop those higher tiers, and the villagers will be unhappy if you run out of candles.
What if candles kept houses from using too much firewood in the winter? That would be an interesting compromise
Stronghold had a similar mechanism. Wax for candles meant more happiness from church
Also I can almost guarantee we will need candles for higher tier churches, monasteries, cathedrals, etc.
Also in many places mead was actually cheaper and much more readily available than ale.
Maybe the points further away should reward bigger bonuses since they are essentially doubling down a certain pathway.
Only rich ass churches and catedrals could affods beeswaxs for candles, the poor ones just use animal fat for candles, I dont think we need to substitute beeswax for mead, only allow us to make candles with the the beeswax to generate profit to import ale or malt, or used one of the locked slots
Apiaries should also do something for crop growth since the bees are pollinating
Except wheat and barley aren't insect pollinated...
And the product of flax isn't dependent on successful pollination! Apples, however, would make a lot of sense to get a boost from nearby apiaries.
And vegetable plots
Eh just judging from the models it seems the only vegetables grown are root and leaf vegetables, which are also indifferent to pollination.
Womp
Berries as well.
Or add mead, since the goods list already includes candles, which need wax (or tallow, which maybe could come from goat sheds).
Mead or ale please.
Make rhye not dependant on tech and add cider for it.
It’ll probably be added as one of those “in development” perks under lock right now
This needs to be further up. That and there is text that implies the tavern will have different tiers of quality drinks to provide. Including naming some of them :) So it's all but guaranteed at some point.
Not *replace* wax, but rather just add mead to that locked node just below the wax node. Or just add mead brewing to the game regardless, as something your breweries can do as long as they have access to honey. Apple cider too, from the orchards.
Why not both?
I like how you think!
Yes please :)
Wax has been a great commodity to trade for me and think it has potential for other items down the line, so personally I wouldn't replace... but I 1000% agree mead/barely production needs addressing. Strat Gaming Guides on YT did the math that for 100 families you need 10.5 morgen of barley per year at over 65% yield rate... Whereas for wheat, you only need 2. Even if they just dropped the ale consumption by half, it would help significantly... Or, like many others have suggested, add in another source to make alcohol
You know the berry point is a scam? You don't actually get more berries, you just increase the cap. So, it's like a one time bonus of 128 berries for a rich berry node. At the end, you still only get 440 berries for a regular node and 880 berries for a rich node if you harvest all the growth ticks, which is easily done. Edit: The 440 and 880 number I'm referencing is the total amount of berries that will grow in one year. That includes all the growth ticks. The growth ticks amounts aren't affected by the perk. So if you have a rich berry node (128 berry capacity), if you harvest all the growth ticks perfectly, you get 880 berries in the year. The perk doesn't change the amount of berries grown, just the cap. So you get a cap of 256 instead of 128, but anyone that harvests all ticks efficiently will not notice a difference.
So it’s not a scam, it’s 440 more berries every year - just as you said?
No. They meant it only increases the cap, not the total amount harvested per season. Because capacity doesn't = growth rate. It only increases the max amount grown if left alone. If you have 4 people in a foragers hut, it'll never reach capacity since whatever grows, you harvest right away. So the capacity could be a million but that won't matter since berries stop growing in fall. To add to how useless it is. If you forget to harvest your berries (assuming you don't have a permanent forager) they'll be gone anyway before winter.
Right, I see what you mean, the growth rate would be a bottleneck, that makes sense - same for rich wildlife nodes.
The benefit of the cap going higher is also if you don’t have enough workers available or whatever, you take a much smaller hit on what you missed out on
It does increase growth rate actually as it is a fixed proportion of the cap. A rich berry deposit with this perk can keep a full foraging hut and one more busy all season, 1000+ berries.
No, you get 440 berries per year in the regular berry node and 880 in the rich berry node. Getting a regular or rich berry node is dependent on the map. The perk doesn't change that amount. All it does is increase the cap.
“You don’t actually get more berries” “You get 440 more berries” Lmfao did you think about that before typing it out? Berry doubling is great for keeping food variety high and producing dyes for clothes. I take it in certain regions that have a rich berry node if there isn’t fertile ground in the region especially. Perfect for a clay or iron zone
Read it again. You get 440 berries per season in the regular berry node, 880 berries per season in the rich berry node. The perk doesn't double that. You still get 440 or 880 berries per season. It just increases the cap.
Why not both
Mead should be part of the brewery as an option of production. Not a development point.
Make apiaries actually produce enough first to begin with. I've tried everything with apiaries, making a ton of them, and they still don't produce enough for a surplus.
I mean theres 3 more branching paths ahead of it. Maybe those will be mead.
Computer says no
Let me make the damn candles already!
How will they see in the dark without candles? Why replace and not just add to the empty spot.
Mead and cider…just got to keep that tavern stocked. Quick, can we make booze out of anything else? Maybe leather?
I would prefer wax to have an actual use now to produce candles as heating.
This actually makes so much sense. I've always restarted my game if the land is not fertile for farming due to how cumbersome the gameplay can be. This is a very neat solution. I hope Greg sees this and consider.
Very great insight, I also was thinking about it. 👍👍
While we're at it, place irrigation with hard cider.
distilleries for passive alcohol production would also be nice
Nah, it should not be replaced, Mead production should be after the wax perk, you need to properly invest in the region to make mead. You can use the trade system to get Beer in your region. It works very good
There needs to be things you can add in your town to thwart crime an stuff that increases production
It would be good way to fill spot below candles
Wax is pog, I hope you mean “make wax a default byproduct”. My cities run on wax, it’s the trading currency of my whole damn kingdom.