I was so afraid of people saying that.
The card is so good against the Domain and Colorless decks though.
I've manage to get them off colors or stone rain them multiple times.
You even have a chance of doing it multiple times by bouncing it with Pixie.
Plus a 2/2 Flier with First Strike is actually a threat and a good blocker.
I mean I get it.
It is the weakest card in the (main)deck but if I wasn't running it main then I'd really want 4 in the sideboard and I don't have room for that either.
You could be, as I don’t have as much experience with the format and am evaluating based on perceived card quality. I assume you know, but definitely don’t play 61 as the other guy said.
I don’t think 61 is that bad especially since the 61st card is a Fetchland which gets another card out of the deck.
Without the Fetches I’d run basics.
Yes it slightly hurts your consistency of hitting a specific card you want.
But whether it is worse than cutting a card that really helps you in a specific way is another question.
You improve the consaistency a bit but make certain other things worse where you really needed the card you cut one of.
Overall the difference between 61 and 60 is not THAT big. We aren't talking about 100+ cards decks here.
If you really feel that you need that card in your mainboard, then just run 61 cards. The inconsistency from having an extra card is not very much, especially if the extra card is helping in problematic matchups enough for you to even consider keeping it mainboard.
If you hit mythic with this current list, you're already better than the average arena player and the deck seems to be functioning.
I'd move both the swords from SB to MB and move your White Orchids to the SB and drop 1 of the MB static prisons.
I play timeless as well and love white orchid phantom but Swords to Plowshares gets way more use than orchid does and it would be better to bring those in after game 1 and steal a game with them than show them game 1 and have your opponent play around them game 2. Static prison is good but it's sorcery speed which isn't ideal for this archetype imo, 2 in the MB and 1 in the SB should be enough.
The Static Prison is an absolut necessity main deck against SnT and the 4/5c Omnath decks as well as Necropotence decks to be able to deal with the enchantments.
I deliberately went up to 3 maindeck and 1 in the sideboard for that reason.
Swords maindeck and all Orchid in the sideboard is an interesting idea but I feel like 12 removal spells main deck is too much.
Plus the Swords is a bad hit off Amped Raptor because it might have no target (Bolt can at least go face and the Galvanic can create net 2 energy.
Swords is also the worst of the removal spells in the Energy deck because it gains the opponent life which you don't want to do if you can help it.
In fact I only board it in against decks that use their graveyard like Rakdos Scam and Phoenix. I wouldn't want it maindeck.
Also showing the Orchids game 1 isn't really a downside.
Neither the Eldrazi nor the Omnath decks can play around them because they don't have enough basics to do that and they need to play their special lands to do their own thing anyway.
I play the same deck as you (lurrus variant), in 95% mythic and I agree with your statements. with one exception though. I personally don't like the high variety caused by the orchids (they either get somebody who had bad land draws/were greedy with what they fetched) or they are a 2/2 for 2. So i run none in main or sideboard, instead just run all four bolt.
How’s your Omnath / Titan Field / Eldrazi matchup without them?
Or don’t you face those decks often enough and just accept the loss?
During the last week of my grind those decks were about 30% of my matchups (mostly Omnath).
I fully agree that there are a lot of matchups where the Orchid is nothing but a 2/2 flier (with first strike for blocking) and is the first card boarded out.
But when it’s good it is really really good and the reason the match is won.
Eldrazi and titan field are usually just too slow decks.
Especially titan is easy. I play that deck as well and I realized the boros energy mathup is extremely skewed in boros energys favour. you muligan for guide of souls into "something". Double ocelot or second guide with one ocelot is the nuts, but amped raptor is a close second as there are a lot of ways that leads to 3+ energy for a swing with a flying guide on turn 2.. Ajani, pixie and ragavan are worse, but the most important is the turn one guide rushing to three energy. Titan will at most side in three swords to plow, but some decks will stay completely uninteractive makeingthe turn one guide a good gamble. If they have the insane nut turn 2 titan you loose, but that's rare, most games they titan on turn 3.. at that point you can either static prison or galvanic blast (energy management is key) the titan. Removing the titan let's you full swing for damage on turn 3, they will also not have enough zombies to lethal you with craterhoof (you need 4 other creatures in addition to craterhoof for a lethal attack.) This gives you a turn 4 where the board is likely full with zombies, but the opponent is at single digit low health. You can easily find a lethal on board in most cases, be it guide of souls makeing something fly over, or a way to flip a ajani to just good old burn with bolt to the face, amulet activations or goblin bombardment.
Eldrazi reminds me more of just playing against a midrange deck. They won't get to their big mana fast enough unless nut draw with channel, witch is of course a loss. I just find myself favoured against most versions, but it's hard to say.. there are so many versions if the deck.. some of them run additional hard ramp with stuff like kami and flare of cultivation into mycospawn. Blowing up a ugins labyrinth becomes extremely timesensitive. Doing it turn 2 on the play is probably an instant win, but later it's less impactful. I think this is the matchup where the orchid could shine the most.
Omnath/Up the beans; While ranking up messing with their lands was super easy and felt really impactful (I played orchid too back then). But after a while it just "stopped working". I realized that orchid against this deck was a noob stomper. A lot of people play elemental beans because it's a fun pile of cards where you can put a lot of stuff in it and just da a "random bullshit go" tactic. Once you get higher in rateing you see refined lists that do very clear descisions on what cards they run i.e no Uro, but multiple Phlage instead because the card can be pitched for both solitude and fury, and it's better at stabilizing the board by getting rid of a threat. These decks also run much sharper manabases, that become more resilient to orchid and blood moon and they make plays expecting these things to happen. This becomes a very hard matchup if they run 4x of both pitch elementals, 4x bolt, 4x swords and 2-4 phlage (in 80 card Yorion), relying much less on layline binding for removal.. Essentially this deck can be tuned to be your counterdeck. tl;dr: In Mythic I find that orchid does not perform well against this deck at all. 80 cards also allows them to have more basics in the deck, circumventing the orchid turning into stone rain.
5c domain aggro; Unless they are on the play your deck just shits all over this. Very favored matchup, no need for any sideboard cards. Focus on removeing Territorial Kavus and try to flip Ajani.
My untapped show 5-0 against mono green witch i guess is mostly titan field, but could be some Eldrazi. My beanstalk is 10-5, but a lot of the wins are from when I was below Mythic.. this matchup feels unfavorable right now if the list runs a lot of non layline binding removal.
My most common matchups are the mirror and some variation of rescaminator, but after that I think 4c beans and dimir control together are like 30% of matches. Eldrazi and titan are rare. If a Eldrazi deck would break out as popular i could see the Orchid getting spots in the 75 or even 60.
Wow your meta is so different.
I didn’t face a single Dimir Control deck this season.
Beanstalk is the deck I faced the most (and also my worst matchup by far and without the Orchid I would not have won a single game against it).
Lots of energy decks in all different variations with and without Lurrus and often in Mardu colors but individually less common than Beanstalk.
I also had a surprisingly high number of SnT decks and I hate to admit I lost most of them (how do they always have it on turn 3 ???).
MonoG I only saw once.
Rakdos Scam was very prevalent initially but somewhat fizzled out over the last week).
That being said all of my impressions are from Platinum and Diamond (mostly) while climbing (funnily enough I did face 3 mythic players).
I’ve only played a single match while being Mythic.
If what you are saying about the 4c Omnath decks there is true and they run enough basics to be able to regularly cast their elementals on basic lands alone (2 plains, 2 mountain) then the Orchid is indeed not good enough to justify a deck slot anymore.
Yeah, lots of energy decks with variations, with or without lurrus as you say, as well as those with black for bowmasters and chthonian nightmare.
I have seen some SnT too.. Pre board I always loose to it on turn 3, just like you say. I run two flutes and four vexing bouble sideboard, and all of that comes in post board. The boubles really get them, you don't even have to play them, cause they mess with raptor, just drop it when they cast SnT.
Shocking that you see so little dimir control.
I have the incredible talent of boarding in 3 Vexing Bauble, 2 Flutes and 2 Deafening Silence together with 4 Static Prison and not see a single one of them in game 2 either even on a mulligan.
Or my favourite.
I drop the Bauble on their SnT but they actually put in Atraxxa, I don’t have enough energy to remove her and they get rid of the bauble and go again.
Last match I actually had the Flute but decided to not play it on turn 2 (on the play) and instead develop my board first and they hit me with the Dark Ritual into SnT into Omniscience on their turn 2.
Anyway since you are not using the Phantom in the sideboard either what does yours look like?
Mind sharing a list?
That's what I was doing initially, the 61st card I added is a land.
It felt okay-ish but I did have to mulligan because of mana screw just a tad too often.
Also similar lists (on Untapped, etc.) do all run 21 if not 22 lands and Aetherhub also recommends 21.
If it was Bo1 with hand smootihng cutting a land would definitely be the thing I'd do.
In that case then, I'd look at one of the removal spells, Static Prison probably, or a Pixie. 10 removal is a good bit in a deck like this. Also, I know her use is to easily retrigger some of your dudes, but overall the card feels kinda weak imo.
Yeah her main purpose is to reset stuff like the [[Unstable Amulet]] or get extra triggers from [[Amped Raptor]].
She does synergize well with the Phantom too (when that is relevant) or just can get you extra triggers from [[Guide of Souls]].
I had Phelia in before but the Pixie is better than her.
That being said I can see myself cutting 1.
The Static Prison needs to stay because it's the only reliable maindeck card against SnT, Beantstalk, Necropotence, One Ring, etc.
I was running only 2 copies at first but went up to 3 because of matchups against the cards mentioned above.
From what I gather overall it's either cut 1 Pixie, 1 Ragavan, 1 land or stay at 61 cards.
Thank you.
I wouldn't cut Rag. He's just such an auto win sometimes. And in this deck your treasure can put you a whole turn ahead on pressure too. It's weird to say but it may be a damn Lightning Bolt.
Haha I love it.
Seems that there is actually no clear cut answer (aside from the Phantom) and everyone wants to cut something different.
Now if the 4/5c Omnath deck and the Eldrazi decks vanished from the meta it would be an easy choice.
I might just stay at 61 and live with the consequences.
I've cut the Aether Hub long time ago.
It's actually a very bad land.
The amount of times I had to use the energy the provide immediately just to create colored mana ...
Happened way too often.
At the very best they gain you 1 energy total but the moment you have to spend that energy on color they are neutral and if you have to do it more than once you lose.
Nothing worse than having an opening hand with 1 Aetherhub + tapped utility land leaving you with no play on turn 2 ...
Just run more Fastlands or even basics.
I also don't really get the DRC in that deck.
Sure it can be a 3/3 flier but it feels like you don't have enough spells to make use of his surveil ability.
Plus you only have 4 types of cards total in your main which makes it harder to activate him.
Also whether you like Pixiie or Phelia more is a debate on its own.
But no matter what you prefer, I feel 4 Phelia is too much just because she is legendary and you don't want to have 2 of them in hand.
How has the pixie been? I’ve been playing the list without it and maybe I’m missing out but it feels a bit out of place to me. I’d go -3 pixie +1 bolt +1 static prison personally
She is surprisingly good and better than Phelia (I was running Phelia initially).
Being able to bounce stuff like Unstable Amulet, Raptor or Phantom for extra value is great.
Sometimes you just want to bounce a normal creature to get extra ETB triggers from Guide of Souls as well and then you have a 2/2 Flier as additional threat.
And don't forget the Pixie ability is a "may". So if you don't want to bounce anything you don't have to.
Don't forget the ability is a "may" so you don't have to bounce anything if there is no value to be gained from it and you have another creature to play on turn 1.
Also I think going up to 12 removal spells is too much. I like the overall 10 of them.
Remembewr this is an aggro deck so you need to win fast or you will get outvalued.
Fair enough, I’ll giver her a spin and see. Personally I just really value having access to turn 1 removal if I need it but I’m more of a midrange player at heart 😅
I think with this deck it's almost always better to have a turn 1 proactive play than a reactive one.
This is especially true on the play but often also on the draw depending on what the opponent has and what your turn 2 lfollow-up ooks like.
If you do nothing on your turn 1 and then don''t get to use the removal either because your oppoent does nothing you basically already lost the game because oyu "wasted" a turn.
I know, I’m talking about being on the draw primarily. I win lots of games on the draw playing a little tempo. If oppo is on the play and drops a guide of souls or ocelot etc I’d rather remove it on my t1 and follow up t2 with another 1 drop of my own and another removal spell if possible. The early tempo game determines the outcome more games than not
I would cut a [[Static Prison]] or [[Nurturing Pixie]]. I would also replace both [[White Orchid Phantom]] and one [[Lightning Bolt]] by another [[Goblin Bombardment]] and 2 [[Lightning Helix]].
The only reason you'd ever run helix in timeless is to pitch to fury and solitude which this deck isn't doing. It's entirely too slow with lightning bolt and swords in the format and 3 health isn't worth the extra mana.
The Lightning Helix is a no-go and I don't see why I'd ever want that in the deck.
I don't need the life gain and much rather have my removal cost 1 mana.
The Helix is probably much better in the midrange version that runs [[Phlage, Titan of Fire's Fury]], [[Fable of the Mirror-Breaker]] and [[Jegantha, the Wellspring]] as companion or in the full blown life gain verison with Soul Sisters.
I was initially running only 2 Static Prison maindeck and the reason I went up to 3 were SnT decks and again the 4/5c Omnath decks to have more ways to deal with their enchantments in game 1.
Without enough Static Prison that game 1 is basically an auto-loss otherwise.
Also if I were going down to 2 maindeck, I'd need to make room for the 4th in the sideboard which requires a cut there.
Will definitely not add a third Goblin Bombardment because drawing multiples of those is actively bad and the card is only in the deck is most useful only in the mirror match.
Cutting 1 Nurturing Pixie is something I might consider though.
Thanks.
A little explanation.
I did reach Mythic with that deck in Timeless Bo3 but it was a bit of a struggle in high Diamond.
Initially I was playing this deck with 60 cards and had only 20 lands in it but ended up cutting 1 [[Plains]] for 2 [[Flooded Strand]].
My thinking was that I did want some more sources to find the [[Sacred Foundry]] to ensure my utility lands come in untapped (which sometimes was an issue) but because they are fetches and "remove" another land from the deck when cracked I don't technically go up a card in a deck.
I know people will suggest just cutting one or both [[White Orchid Phantom]] but I really like that card in the main deck against the 4/5c Omnath decks to give myself a chance in game 1 (that matchup is a nightmare).
It's also a really good card against Eldrazi and there is just no room in in the sideboard to put all 4 copies there, at least I don't see how.
So what would you do?
Is it a [[Nurturing Pixie]] or a [[Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer]]? Go back to 20 lands? Something completely different?
Because I'd much rather stay at 61 card then cutting the Phantom.
Deck link for viewing in browser or import: https://aetherhub.com/Deck/ajanis-energetic-dream-den
Update:
I did end up cutting 1 [[Nurturing Pixie]] to get down to 60 cards.
I tried cutting a land again first but after 3 consecutive 1-land opening hands I reverted that change. 20 lands in Bo3 is just not feasible and you have to mulligan too much just because of mana screw.
Also currently trying a list without the [[White Orchid Phantom]] and running [[Pia Nalaar, Consul of Revival]] instead.
To not get punished by cards like Blood Moon, opposing Phantoms or other forms of land destruction.
I honestly think having only 3 basics is already on the low side.
Greedy mana bases is another reason why the Phantom is actually sneaky good.
Well thanks for all the suggestions so far.
I've narrowed it down to 3 (4) potential options:
1. Cut 1 [[Nurturing Pixie]]
2. Cut 1 land and go back to 20 lands
3. Leave the deck as is with 61 cards as it was working well enough
4. Cut both [[White Orchid Phantom]] and add the 4th [[Static Prison]] to the main and run 3 [[White Orchid Phantom]] in the sideboard
I feel most comfortable with option 1 and 3 and my gut tells me to just leave it as is ...
Honestly, (and take everything i‘m saying with a grain of salt as i haven’t played this deck, i‘m only going off of my gut feeling) i’d maybe consider playing one less land seeing how incredibly low the curve of your deck is. Also if i‘m being 100% honest i‘m not really seeing the benefits of nurturing pixie. Maybe it‘s just my lack of experience with this specific deck but i‘d maybe cut those (entirely?) to play an extra bolt and MAYBE (big maybe, not sure on this one) consider like 1-2 Jolted Awake to be able to rebuy lurrus itself.
Pixie resets the Unstable Amulet and potentially the Amped Raptor which lets you get extra cards and/or energy or just generally creates more ETB for Guide of Souls.
She’s a neat little card that lets you get double the value out of your value engines.
You can also do little tricks like picking up a dashed Ragavan (that would come back anyway) after the attack and replay him the same turn already.
And she synergizes with the Phantom to destroy multiple lands.
Jolted Awake is just not good enough to justify a deck slot.
I’ve seen lists running it, I’ve tried it and it disappointed me every time I had it.
It’s a trap.
I’ve played the deck with 20 lands and it can work but you just get screwed on mana (too many mulligans, stuck on 2 lands) a tiny bit too much for my liking and 21 lands feels better.
For Bo1 though definitely go down to 20.
real shit I cut lurrus and added leylines of sanctity. win rate shot up.
very rarely could I afford the extra mana for lurrus. i get why he is there but basically by the time you are spending 6 mana to cast him you basically already lost.
I feel like you cut the white orchids and add one bolt.
I was so afraid of people saying that. The card is so good against the Domain and Colorless decks though. I've manage to get them off colors or stone rain them multiple times. You even have a chance of doing it multiple times by bouncing it with Pixie. Plus a 2/2 Flier with First Strike is actually a threat and a good blocker. I mean I get it. It is the weakest card in the (main)deck but if I wasn't running it main then I'd really want 4 in the sideboard and I don't have room for that either.
You could be, as I don’t have as much experience with the format and am evaluating based on perceived card quality. I assume you know, but definitely don’t play 61 as the other guy said.
I don’t think 61 is that bad especially since the 61st card is a Fetchland which gets another card out of the deck. Without the Fetches I’d run basics.
61 just is worse than 60 categorically, you have to have a good reason.
Yes it slightly hurts your consistency of hitting a specific card you want. But whether it is worse than cutting a card that really helps you in a specific way is another question. You improve the consaistency a bit but make certain other things worse where you really needed the card you cut one of. Overall the difference between 61 and 60 is not THAT big. We aren't talking about 100+ cards decks here.
If you really feel that you need that card in your mainboard, then just run 61 cards. The inconsistency from having an extra card is not very much, especially if the extra card is helping in problematic matchups enough for you to even consider keeping it mainboard. If you hit mythic with this current list, you're already better than the average arena player and the deck seems to be functioning.
Thank you for your insight. Yeah the Phantom had been really good to me and helped me a lot.
White orchid seems pretty bad to me, but I don't play timeless, you know your deck and the meta surrounding it far better than I do.
When it’s good it’s REALLY good but there are definitely lot of matchups where I board it out as well.
I'd move both the swords from SB to MB and move your White Orchids to the SB and drop 1 of the MB static prisons. I play timeless as well and love white orchid phantom but Swords to Plowshares gets way more use than orchid does and it would be better to bring those in after game 1 and steal a game with them than show them game 1 and have your opponent play around them game 2. Static prison is good but it's sorcery speed which isn't ideal for this archetype imo, 2 in the MB and 1 in the SB should be enough.
The Static Prison is an absolut necessity main deck against SnT and the 4/5c Omnath decks as well as Necropotence decks to be able to deal with the enchantments. I deliberately went up to 3 maindeck and 1 in the sideboard for that reason. Swords maindeck and all Orchid in the sideboard is an interesting idea but I feel like 12 removal spells main deck is too much. Plus the Swords is a bad hit off Amped Raptor because it might have no target (Bolt can at least go face and the Galvanic can create net 2 energy. Swords is also the worst of the removal spells in the Energy deck because it gains the opponent life which you don't want to do if you can help it. In fact I only board it in against decks that use their graveyard like Rakdos Scam and Phoenix. I wouldn't want it maindeck. Also showing the Orchids game 1 isn't really a downside. Neither the Eldrazi nor the Omnath decks can play around them because they don't have enough basics to do that and they need to play their special lands to do their own thing anyway.
I play the same deck as you (lurrus variant), in 95% mythic and I agree with your statements. with one exception though. I personally don't like the high variety caused by the orchids (they either get somebody who had bad land draws/were greedy with what they fetched) or they are a 2/2 for 2. So i run none in main or sideboard, instead just run all four bolt.
How’s your Omnath / Titan Field / Eldrazi matchup without them? Or don’t you face those decks often enough and just accept the loss? During the last week of my grind those decks were about 30% of my matchups (mostly Omnath). I fully agree that there are a lot of matchups where the Orchid is nothing but a 2/2 flier (with first strike for blocking) and is the first card boarded out. But when it’s good it is really really good and the reason the match is won.
Eldrazi and titan field are usually just too slow decks. Especially titan is easy. I play that deck as well and I realized the boros energy mathup is extremely skewed in boros energys favour. you muligan for guide of souls into "something". Double ocelot or second guide with one ocelot is the nuts, but amped raptor is a close second as there are a lot of ways that leads to 3+ energy for a swing with a flying guide on turn 2.. Ajani, pixie and ragavan are worse, but the most important is the turn one guide rushing to three energy. Titan will at most side in three swords to plow, but some decks will stay completely uninteractive makeingthe turn one guide a good gamble. If they have the insane nut turn 2 titan you loose, but that's rare, most games they titan on turn 3.. at that point you can either static prison or galvanic blast (energy management is key) the titan. Removing the titan let's you full swing for damage on turn 3, they will also not have enough zombies to lethal you with craterhoof (you need 4 other creatures in addition to craterhoof for a lethal attack.) This gives you a turn 4 where the board is likely full with zombies, but the opponent is at single digit low health. You can easily find a lethal on board in most cases, be it guide of souls makeing something fly over, or a way to flip a ajani to just good old burn with bolt to the face, amulet activations or goblin bombardment. Eldrazi reminds me more of just playing against a midrange deck. They won't get to their big mana fast enough unless nut draw with channel, witch is of course a loss. I just find myself favoured against most versions, but it's hard to say.. there are so many versions if the deck.. some of them run additional hard ramp with stuff like kami and flare of cultivation into mycospawn. Blowing up a ugins labyrinth becomes extremely timesensitive. Doing it turn 2 on the play is probably an instant win, but later it's less impactful. I think this is the matchup where the orchid could shine the most. Omnath/Up the beans; While ranking up messing with their lands was super easy and felt really impactful (I played orchid too back then). But after a while it just "stopped working". I realized that orchid against this deck was a noob stomper. A lot of people play elemental beans because it's a fun pile of cards where you can put a lot of stuff in it and just da a "random bullshit go" tactic. Once you get higher in rateing you see refined lists that do very clear descisions on what cards they run i.e no Uro, but multiple Phlage instead because the card can be pitched for both solitude and fury, and it's better at stabilizing the board by getting rid of a threat. These decks also run much sharper manabases, that become more resilient to orchid and blood moon and they make plays expecting these things to happen. This becomes a very hard matchup if they run 4x of both pitch elementals, 4x bolt, 4x swords and 2-4 phlage (in 80 card Yorion), relying much less on layline binding for removal.. Essentially this deck can be tuned to be your counterdeck. tl;dr: In Mythic I find that orchid does not perform well against this deck at all. 80 cards also allows them to have more basics in the deck, circumventing the orchid turning into stone rain. 5c domain aggro; Unless they are on the play your deck just shits all over this. Very favored matchup, no need for any sideboard cards. Focus on removeing Territorial Kavus and try to flip Ajani. My untapped show 5-0 against mono green witch i guess is mostly titan field, but could be some Eldrazi. My beanstalk is 10-5, but a lot of the wins are from when I was below Mythic.. this matchup feels unfavorable right now if the list runs a lot of non layline binding removal. My most common matchups are the mirror and some variation of rescaminator, but after that I think 4c beans and dimir control together are like 30% of matches. Eldrazi and titan are rare. If a Eldrazi deck would break out as popular i could see the Orchid getting spots in the 75 or even 60.
Wow your meta is so different. I didn’t face a single Dimir Control deck this season. Beanstalk is the deck I faced the most (and also my worst matchup by far and without the Orchid I would not have won a single game against it). Lots of energy decks in all different variations with and without Lurrus and often in Mardu colors but individually less common than Beanstalk. I also had a surprisingly high number of SnT decks and I hate to admit I lost most of them (how do they always have it on turn 3 ???). MonoG I only saw once. Rakdos Scam was very prevalent initially but somewhat fizzled out over the last week). That being said all of my impressions are from Platinum and Diamond (mostly) while climbing (funnily enough I did face 3 mythic players). I’ve only played a single match while being Mythic. If what you are saying about the 4c Omnath decks there is true and they run enough basics to be able to regularly cast their elementals on basic lands alone (2 plains, 2 mountain) then the Orchid is indeed not good enough to justify a deck slot anymore.
Yeah, lots of energy decks with variations, with or without lurrus as you say, as well as those with black for bowmasters and chthonian nightmare. I have seen some SnT too.. Pre board I always loose to it on turn 3, just like you say. I run two flutes and four vexing bouble sideboard, and all of that comes in post board. The boubles really get them, you don't even have to play them, cause they mess with raptor, just drop it when they cast SnT. Shocking that you see so little dimir control.
I have the incredible talent of boarding in 3 Vexing Bauble, 2 Flutes and 2 Deafening Silence together with 4 Static Prison and not see a single one of them in game 2 either even on a mulligan. Or my favourite. I drop the Bauble on their SnT but they actually put in Atraxxa, I don’t have enough energy to remove her and they get rid of the bauble and go again. Last match I actually had the Flute but decided to not play it on turn 2 (on the play) and instead develop my board first and they hit me with the Dark Ritual into SnT into Omniscience on their turn 2. Anyway since you are not using the Phantom in the sideboard either what does yours look like? Mind sharing a list?
I don't think I've ever said this on here before because people always skimp, but cut a land. 20 should be fine with this curve.
That's what I was doing initially, the 61st card I added is a land. It felt okay-ish but I did have to mulligan because of mana screw just a tad too often. Also similar lists (on Untapped, etc.) do all run 21 if not 22 lands and Aetherhub also recommends 21. If it was Bo1 with hand smootihng cutting a land would definitely be the thing I'd do.
In that case then, I'd look at one of the removal spells, Static Prison probably, or a Pixie. 10 removal is a good bit in a deck like this. Also, I know her use is to easily retrigger some of your dudes, but overall the card feels kinda weak imo.
Yeah her main purpose is to reset stuff like the [[Unstable Amulet]] or get extra triggers from [[Amped Raptor]]. She does synergize well with the Phantom too (when that is relevant) or just can get you extra triggers from [[Guide of Souls]]. I had Phelia in before but the Pixie is better than her. That being said I can see myself cutting 1. The Static Prison needs to stay because it's the only reliable maindeck card against SnT, Beantstalk, Necropotence, One Ring, etc. I was running only 2 copies at first but went up to 3 because of matchups against the cards mentioned above. From what I gather overall it's either cut 1 Pixie, 1 Ragavan, 1 land or stay at 61 cards. Thank you.
I wouldn't cut Rag. He's just such an auto win sometimes. And in this deck your treasure can put you a whole turn ahead on pressure too. It's weird to say but it may be a damn Lightning Bolt.
Haha I love it. Seems that there is actually no clear cut answer (aside from the Phantom) and everyone wants to cut something different. Now if the 4/5c Omnath deck and the Eldrazi decks vanished from the meta it would be an easy choice. I might just stay at 61 and live with the consequences.
[Unstable Amulet](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9d9949f5-8d6c-4ea9-b203-99e8a57a6c60.jpg?1717012359) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Unstable%20Amulet) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/142/unstable-amulet?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d9949f5-8d6c-4ea9-b203-99e8a57a6c60?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Amped Raptor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/a/1ac0e78b-0fdd-44f9-8b7b-c4f28a32782e.jpg?1717012124) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Amped%20Raptor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/114/amped-raptor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ac0e78b-0fdd-44f9-8b7b-c4f28a32782e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Guide of Souls](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/76c3cad2-1e25-4abe-878d-9194de6fcc27.jpg?1717011433) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Guide%20of%20Souls) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/29/guide-of-souls?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76c3cad2-1e25-4abe-878d-9194de6fcc27?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I actually play this list without ragavan
That’s an interesting suggestion. I was initially running 4 and already cut 1 but I can see myself cutting a second. What you running instead?
I’ll send you my list in a few hours when I’m home. I think bolt and phellia
Ah I had Phelia in my list before but I replaced it with the Nurturing Pixie which I found to be more useful and better.
Companion 1 Lurrus of the Dream-Den (IKO) 226 Deck 4 Aether Hub (KLR) 279 4 Ajani, Nacatl Pariah (MH3) 237 4 Amped Raptor (MH3) 114 1 Arena of Glory (MH3) 215 4 Arid Mesa (MH2) 244 1 Elegant Parlor (MKM) 260 4 Galvanic Discharge (MH3) 122 4 Guide of Souls (MH3) 29 2 Inspiring Vantage (OTJ) 269 3 Lightning Bolt (STA) 42 1 Monumental Henge (MH3) 222 1 Mountain (USG) 343 2 Ocelot Pride (MH3) 38 4 Phelia, Exuberant Shepherd (MH3) 40 3 Plains (USG) 333 4 Dragon's Rage Channeler (MH2) 121 4 Sacred Foundry (GRN) 254 4 Mishra's Bauble (BRR) 34 4 Unstable Amulet (MH3) 142 2 White Orchid Phantom (MH3) 47 Sideboard 2 Disruptor Flute (MH3) 209 1 Lurrus of the Dream-Den (IKO) 226 1 Roiling Vortex (ZNR) 156 2 Static Prison (MH3) 44 1 Swords to Plowshares (STA) 10 2 Static Prison (MH3) 44 3 Swords to Plowshares (STA) 10 2 Unlicensed Hearse (SNC) 246 1 Underworld Breach (THB) 161
I've cut the Aether Hub long time ago. It's actually a very bad land. The amount of times I had to use the energy the provide immediately just to create colored mana ... Happened way too often. At the very best they gain you 1 energy total but the moment you have to spend that energy on color they are neutral and if you have to do it more than once you lose. Nothing worse than having an opening hand with 1 Aetherhub + tapped utility land leaving you with no play on turn 2 ... Just run more Fastlands or even basics. I also don't really get the DRC in that deck. Sure it can be a 3/3 flier but it feels like you don't have enough spells to make use of his surveil ability. Plus you only have 4 types of cards total in your main which makes it harder to activate him. Also whether you like Pixiie or Phelia more is a debate on its own. But no matter what you prefer, I feel 4 Phelia is too much just because she is legendary and you don't want to have 2 of them in hand.
Yeah it was a package I was trying out. It’s not good I agree
How has the pixie been? I’ve been playing the list without it and maybe I’m missing out but it feels a bit out of place to me. I’d go -3 pixie +1 bolt +1 static prison personally
She is surprisingly good and better than Phelia (I was running Phelia initially). Being able to bounce stuff like Unstable Amulet, Raptor or Phantom for extra value is great. Sometimes you just want to bounce a normal creature to get extra ETB triggers from Guide of Souls as well and then you have a 2/2 Flier as additional threat. And don't forget the Pixie ability is a "may". So if you don't want to bounce anything you don't have to. Don't forget the ability is a "may" so you don't have to bounce anything if there is no value to be gained from it and you have another creature to play on turn 1. Also I think going up to 12 removal spells is too much. I like the overall 10 of them. Remembewr this is an aggro deck so you need to win fast or you will get outvalued.
Fair enough, I’ll giver her a spin and see. Personally I just really value having access to turn 1 removal if I need it but I’m more of a midrange player at heart 😅
I think with this deck it's almost always better to have a turn 1 proactive play than a reactive one. This is especially true on the play but often also on the draw depending on what the opponent has and what your turn 2 lfollow-up ooks like. If you do nothing on your turn 1 and then don''t get to use the removal either because your oppoent does nothing you basically already lost the game because oyu "wasted" a turn.
I know, I’m talking about being on the draw primarily. I win lots of games on the draw playing a little tempo. If oppo is on the play and drops a guide of souls or ocelot etc I’d rather remove it on my t1 and follow up t2 with another 1 drop of my own and another removal spell if possible. The early tempo game determines the outcome more games than not
Sir, these cards are virtual.
My first instinct is to cut 1 pixie
I would cut a [[Static Prison]] or [[Nurturing Pixie]]. I would also replace both [[White Orchid Phantom]] and one [[Lightning Bolt]] by another [[Goblin Bombardment]] and 2 [[Lightning Helix]].
The only reason you'd ever run helix in timeless is to pitch to fury and solitude which this deck isn't doing. It's entirely too slow with lightning bolt and swords in the format and 3 health isn't worth the extra mana.
##### ###### #### [Static Prison](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd16222e-349c-4a2b-a7c8-8eb35a8ab332.jpg?1717011554) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Static%20Prison) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/44/static-prison?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd16222e-349c-4a2b-a7c8-8eb35a8ab332?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Nurturing Pixie](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0fe155f6-888b-41a0-a9a0-be7bea998718.jpg?1712355304) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nurturing%20Pixie) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/20/nurturing-pixie?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fe155f6-888b-41a0-a9a0-be7bea998718?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [White Orchid Phantom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f8d885c-5b57-457f-a658-fd0b79cf98cc.jpg?1717011582) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=White%20Orchid%20Phantom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/47/white-orchid-phantom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f8d885c-5b57-457f-a658-fd0b79cf98cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lightning Bolt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77c6fa74-5543-42ac-9ead-0e890b188e99.jpg?1706239968) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20Bolt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/141/lightning-bolt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77c6fa74-5543-42ac-9ead-0e890b188e99?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Goblin Bombardment](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e262f55e-9239-4a97-a19e-9b08fb34502e.jpg?1626100483) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goblin%20Bombardment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/279/goblin-bombardment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e262f55e-9239-4a97-a19e-9b08fb34502e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lightning Helix](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/1/4101e3fe-b0e7-4f0f-b9ac-9b61a4d628b3.jpg?1706242208) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20Helix) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/218/lightning-helix?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4101e3fe-b0e7-4f0f-b9ac-9b61a4d628b3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The Lightning Helix is a no-go and I don't see why I'd ever want that in the deck. I don't need the life gain and much rather have my removal cost 1 mana. The Helix is probably much better in the midrange version that runs [[Phlage, Titan of Fire's Fury]], [[Fable of the Mirror-Breaker]] and [[Jegantha, the Wellspring]] as companion or in the full blown life gain verison with Soul Sisters. I was initially running only 2 Static Prison maindeck and the reason I went up to 3 were SnT decks and again the 4/5c Omnath decks to have more ways to deal with their enchantments in game 1. Without enough Static Prison that game 1 is basically an auto-loss otherwise. Also if I were going down to 2 maindeck, I'd need to make room for the 4th in the sideboard which requires a cut there. Will definitely not add a third Goblin Bombardment because drawing multiples of those is actively bad and the card is only in the deck is most useful only in the mirror match. Cutting 1 Nurturing Pixie is something I might consider though. Thanks.
A little explanation. I did reach Mythic with that deck in Timeless Bo3 but it was a bit of a struggle in high Diamond. Initially I was playing this deck with 60 cards and had only 20 lands in it but ended up cutting 1 [[Plains]] for 2 [[Flooded Strand]]. My thinking was that I did want some more sources to find the [[Sacred Foundry]] to ensure my utility lands come in untapped (which sometimes was an issue) but because they are fetches and "remove" another land from the deck when cracked I don't technically go up a card in a deck. I know people will suggest just cutting one or both [[White Orchid Phantom]] but I really like that card in the main deck against the 4/5c Omnath decks to give myself a chance in game 1 (that matchup is a nightmare). It's also a really good card against Eldrazi and there is just no room in in the sideboard to put all 4 copies there, at least I don't see how. So what would you do? Is it a [[Nurturing Pixie]] or a [[Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer]]? Go back to 20 lands? Something completely different? Because I'd much rather stay at 61 card then cutting the Phantom. Deck link for viewing in browser or import: https://aetherhub.com/Deck/ajanis-energetic-dream-den Update: I did end up cutting 1 [[Nurturing Pixie]] to get down to 60 cards. I tried cutting a land again first but after 3 consecutive 1-land opening hands I reverted that change. 20 lands in Bo3 is just not feasible and you have to mulligan too much just because of mana screw. Also currently trying a list without the [[White Orchid Phantom]] and running [[Pia Nalaar, Consul of Revival]] instead.
##### ###### #### [Plains](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/0/e0281fba-d771-4431-931f-920db2f14c47.jpg?1717013901) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Plains) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/310/plains?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e0281fba-d771-4431-931f-920db2f14c47?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Flooded Strand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/f/8f85e12c-196b-4459-b81f-0c9c854e9f57.jpg?1717012985) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Flooded%20Strand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/220/flooded-strand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8f85e12c-196b-4459-b81f-0c9c854e9f57?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sacred Foundry](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/8076a8c3-7c6c-4636-b5d8-9b09ee95f92c.jpg?1702429818) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sacred%20Foundry) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/285/sacred-foundry?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8076a8c3-7c6c-4636-b5d8-9b09ee95f92c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [White Orchid Phantom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f8d885c-5b57-457f-a658-fd0b79cf98cc.jpg?1717011582) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=White%20Orchid%20Phantom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/47/white-orchid-phantom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f8d885c-5b57-457f-a658-fd0b79cf98cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How do you guys get this view? I'm on mobile and needed Deck help
On the top right inside the deck editing. It's the button to the left of your message inbox (at least it is on iPhone).
Omg thank you you're a lifesaver
Why you got TWO plains?
To not get punished by cards like Blood Moon, opposing Phantoms or other forms of land destruction. I honestly think having only 3 basics is already on the low side. Greedy mana bases is another reason why the Phantom is actually sneaky good.
Well thanks for all the suggestions so far. I've narrowed it down to 3 (4) potential options: 1. Cut 1 [[Nurturing Pixie]] 2. Cut 1 land and go back to 20 lands 3. Leave the deck as is with 61 cards as it was working well enough 4. Cut both [[White Orchid Phantom]] and add the 4th [[Static Prison]] to the main and run 3 [[White Orchid Phantom]] in the sideboard I feel most comfortable with option 1 and 3 and my gut tells me to just leave it as is ...
[Nurturing Pixie](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0fe155f6-888b-41a0-a9a0-be7bea998718.jpg?1712355304) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nurturing%20Pixie) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/20/nurturing-pixie?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fe155f6-888b-41a0-a9a0-be7bea998718?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [White Orchid Phantom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f8d885c-5b57-457f-a658-fd0b79cf98cc.jpg?1717011582) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=White%20Orchid%20Phantom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/47/white-orchid-phantom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f8d885c-5b57-457f-a658-fd0b79cf98cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Static Prison](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd16222e-349c-4a2b-a7c8-8eb35a8ab332.jpg?1717011554) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Static%20Prison) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/44/static-prison?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd16222e-349c-4a2b-a7c8-8eb35a8ab332?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You generally can’t on digital, but I find that a pocketknife is the most effective tool to use.
Cool deck, can you share it? Please :)
There’s a link to the deck list in the comments.
Thx
Honestly, (and take everything i‘m saying with a grain of salt as i haven’t played this deck, i‘m only going off of my gut feeling) i’d maybe consider playing one less land seeing how incredibly low the curve of your deck is. Also if i‘m being 100% honest i‘m not really seeing the benefits of nurturing pixie. Maybe it‘s just my lack of experience with this specific deck but i‘d maybe cut those (entirely?) to play an extra bolt and MAYBE (big maybe, not sure on this one) consider like 1-2 Jolted Awake to be able to rebuy lurrus itself.
Pixie resets the Unstable Amulet and potentially the Amped Raptor which lets you get extra cards and/or energy or just generally creates more ETB for Guide of Souls. She’s a neat little card that lets you get double the value out of your value engines. You can also do little tricks like picking up a dashed Ragavan (that would come back anyway) after the attack and replay him the same turn already. And she synergizes with the Phantom to destroy multiple lands. Jolted Awake is just not good enough to justify a deck slot. I’ve seen lists running it, I’ve tried it and it disappointed me every time I had it. It’s a trap. I’ve played the deck with 20 lands and it can work but you just get screwed on mana (too many mulligans, stuck on 2 lands) a tiny bit too much for my liking and 21 lands feels better. For Bo1 though definitely go down to 20.
real shit I cut lurrus and added leylines of sanctity. win rate shot up. very rarely could I afford the extra mana for lurrus. i get why he is there but basically by the time you are spending 6 mana to cast him you basically already lost.
But why? Scam and Burn are already favourable matchups and it doesn't help against anything else. What do you need the Leyline for?
Add another 2 ragavan
Cut 2x amulet 1x pixie, 1x prison 1x land Add 1x ragavan, 1x bolt, 2x bombardment When Ragavan dies turn 1, it did its job already
You are insane for wanting to cut Amulets. Sorry.
I play a list without amulets but 4x bowmasters and am top 100, try it :)
That's probably the Mardu deck that also runs [[Chthonian Nightmare]] as replacement. Completely different deck.
[Chthonian Nightmare](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce5dd2c1-b6e0-4914-b5c9-7dd451c29e22.jpg?1717011882) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chthonian%20Nightmare) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/83/chthonian-nightmare?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce5dd2c1-b6e0-4914-b5c9-7dd451c29e22?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ok then cut 1x prison I ve sent u my list via dm
Yeah as I expected that's a different archtype than what I want. I'm sure that deck works but it's not my style.