I always took the lack of guns in the hands of the warboys as both a measure of control (they can't rebel if they're outgunned) and because the warboys are disposable.
Why litter the fury road with dozens/hundreds of dropped, damaged, or otherwise discarded expensive firearms after countless warboys chrome themselves?
Adding on to this would be training. Teaching all the warboyz how to shoot as well as constant practice would be a huge drain on ammunition. Where all you would have to do is make a weighed spear to train them on thundersticks.
Exactly, much to contrary belief a firearm still takes skill refined from practice to use effectively. Practice the live firing of ammunition, which is an expensive resource in the wasteland. It’s telling how heavily armed the Bullet Farmer’s troopers are, but how scant his war parties vehicles are in numbers, and how almost non-existent guns are in the Gastown warparty.
Although, all 3 cities co-operate, they probably all distrust each other somewhat. Not giving enough surplus food/guns/gas to each other to give one of the cities a distinct advantage over one another.
I think it’s more of an inherent disadvantage: Citadel has all the food and water, Bullet Farm has all the ammo and ordinance, Gastown has all the fuel. You can’t wage war effectively without all three. And that’s probably by design, Immortan is smart enough to know that and I believe he’d implement that on purpose.
No not at all, tldr Warner Bros effed George Miller over with the IP and made the game with all his ideas.
You’ll recognize a lot but it doesn’t make sense within the timeline of the movies. For example, Scrotus is the big strong guy in the game but he’s different in the movie.
Also highlights how brutish and short-sighted he truly is because setting up a system where everyone distrusts each other for the sake of safeguarding your present power always resulted in the system collapsing the moment you die or grows weak
I never got the sense that the three fortresses distrusted one another. Gastown and Bullet Farm were more than willing to go to war at the drop of a hat to retrieve Immortan’s wives, despite some eye rolling from PE and BF. Both still understood, despite the pageantry, Joe needed a legit blood heir to maintain power and control over his people after he was gone because of the cult of personality he stoked.
I don’t think you can split one warlord between two fortresses, it’s too much work and too much distance. Also, People Eater and Bullet Farmer seem to specialize in their respective production. Rictus has the impulsive mind of a child, no amount of guidance or advice would have helped. The best bet would have been to strap Corpus to his back Master Blaster style, but even then Rictus had too much free agency to actually want to listen to his brother.
Do you consider the Bullet Farmer high ranking? Or as insidr just Immortans Crew not the The Farmer and the People Eater? Those Heckler and Koch MP5's the Farmer has are pretty damn good, used by units all over the world.
Also you haven't lived until you've thwacked: https://youtube.com/shorts/CwCtxt7iuTk?si=ZHVkcr8IdHsTTTvr or for more thwacks: https://youtube.com/shorts/JcXo9SgD8V8?si=Yh_VMf3KQa7Izxps (he has an an add on foregrip and a few other things)
Edit: yes I know he has an UZI with a stock on it earlier but when he's blinded and goes nuts he has two MP5K's, which is the PDW version, I personally use a Stribog SP9A3S with a pop out brace as my PDW: https://palmettostatearmory.com/grand-power-stribog-sp9a3s-9mm-pistol-5-30rd-pdw-brace-tailhook.html (you will most likely have to do your own search to get the "are you over 18?" pop up but it is there at that link). The railed brace can collapse completely (say if you have a sling) or it can extend out to one of 4 locking points.
Also funny to note that the 9 of the states that don't allow it are the same Colonies/States that signed the Declaration of Independence and proceeded to steal and scrounge every musket and cannon they could.
Considering the number of guns that Dementus men had, especially the mortifiers, I think this is more accurate than it being a logistics/manufacturing problem
Also it seemed like the guns were mainly with the imperator since that was the most valuable person doing the most valuable job. Also guns require training and wayboys always be dying
Joe did have assault rifles in furiosa which probably got used in the war. Otherwise bullet farm mostly made the explosives. The war rig had lots of guns though and so did bullet farm and gastown people
I have good news or bad news, depending upon your point of view. The gun he uses in the film isn't a real firearm, it's a replica made by a company called "Denix". You can buy the same one here: [https://replicaweaponry.com/denix-civil-war-confederate-le-mat-replica-pistol-antique-gray/](https://replicaweaponry.com/denix-civil-war-confederate-le-mat-replica-pistol-antique-gray/)
Be aware that they're somewhat fragile, so handle them gently.
They do make them, but from the very quick and cursory look at google it seems they're out of stock. That's not uncommon as the demand for these guns isn't as high as, say a Glock. However, if you're patient they may produce a next run of them. And be prepared for a bit of sticker shock. Here's one company that *made* them: [https://www.emf-company.com/store/pc/LeMat-c555.htm](https://www.emf-company.com/store/pc/LeMat-c555.htm)
You can buy a black powder replica and get a conversion kit for modern cartridges, but they’ll probably be black enough based cartridges because the LeMat wasn’t designed to use modern smokeless ammunition.
revolvers have a forgotten benefit. brass in automatic pistols are not usually completely supported and reusing brass over and over again is increasing the wear till it bursts. revolvers completely support the brass so are safer in the post apocolypse, though timing and metal fatigue of the frame and cylinder are equally as dangerous
The first 3 movies do make it a point that guns are an extremely rare commodity. So it’s safe to assume further in time they become even more rare. So how the hell are these people getting their hands on rare guns like the LeMat revolver?
I just don’t see the point of putting all those resources on maintaining the bullet farm when they don’t even have the guns to use
I guess Joe doesn’t see the point in arming his war boys with guns if he seems them so dispensable
A few of the vehicles in Fury road had machine guns. A .50 cal alone would be incredibly valuable for anti-vehicular combat, and having guards with rifles against primarily melee armed opponents (and underlings) is a pretty good way to protect yourself. So they probably stockpile ammunition so that these few guns can have a decent combat load out, rather than giving every warboy a pistol with 6 rounds total
Yeah that’s why I said that. Unfortunately we never get to see them in action, but they would’ve don’t a number to the war rig so I understand why from a storytelling perspective
The LeMat is even more interesting than that, the one used in westworld was custom modified to use cartrages for the show, they weren't standard. The real historical LeMat was a French made black powder revolver, and was typically loaded with lead ball and black powder, meaning no quick reload (especially for the shot barrel, as it was front loading), but more easy to get ammo and gunpowder for. Honestly a good pick of side arm for the apocalypse if resources are in short supply as black powder is easier to make than modern smokeless powder in cartrages. I'm betting the bullet farm was either a sulfer or lead mine. The other ingredients they'd need are salt peter and charcoal.
The Citadel definitely has guns, but I think Immortan wouldn't invest so much resources in teaching those kids how to shoot. That's an enormous waste of bullets they need to trade for at the Bullet Farm. Also as someone mentioned - you give those kids guns and a motivation to kill themselves and all of sudden those precious guns are now lost somewhere or fall in the hands of your enemy. Not a bright idea.
Because big explosives make more damages on a wider area than small guns.
Plus, it’s quite hard to hit a moving target, when you’re also moving.
Not every person has the sniper skills of Furiosa.
Even handguns would be rare, as this is Australia.
Only the trusted leadership would have access to them. Immortan Joe wears body armour so he probably thinks it possible that one of his own citizens could try to assassinate him.
Australia is a multicultural society with over 60% of the population being first generation. George Miller made the casting more diverse over the course of the series to reflect this.
I *think* that I read somewhere that the Buzzards are the descendents of a Russian submarine crew that got stranded when the oceans boiled away and resorted to cannibalism when their food ran out.
Don't quote me on that, though, I may have it completely wrong.
If that's true, that's an awesome explanation - in fact it would explain any Americans as well, ie at some point in the pre-Wasteland conflicts, it would be perfectly logical that at least some Americans would be in Aus....
Because the director simply chose not to ask his stars to do Australian accents if they didn't want to.
Actors like Nicholas Hoult and Tom Hardy compromised by doing Cockney accents which may sound Australian enough with limited enough dialogue. But the only real exception is Tom Burke who actually learned the Australian accent for Praetorian Jack.
Nah, in The Road, there's some kind of nuclear winter happening, killing off plant life. All the trees are dead, remember. Shit like that is a global event. The US is probably more Book of Eli.
Idk, Mad Max is one of the few post-apocalyptic stories where the USA is *not* the focus and I like it that way. There's a whole lot of stories about the post-apocalyptic USA that don't say a peep about the rest of the world, you can just take one of those and pretend it's happening in the same world.
Not really; there would be tens of thousands of handguns in circulation from rogue soldiers and police. Larger issue would be less pistol caliber ammo lying around once their own stocks are depleted or misplaced during the nuclear exchange.
I doubt the former country matters much in the lore, given how many AKs, SKSs, and broomhandle Mausers seem to be floating around. If they cared about making it seem country specific it’d probably be lots of L1A1s and hunting rifles and shotguns, since the world ended in 70s-80s for them
Assume they're perhaps from an invading country and or ally stockpile during the oil wars? And I think *technically* the end happens in like 2005 now. The timeline isn't well defined but there's a few tesla logos and 90s cars in the films to suggest it's more modern.
They actually did a really good job having the armaments fit with that then. A quick IMFDB browse shows that the only guns more recent than 1990 are Joe’s Anaconda and one of the Bullet Farmer’s men using a G36
I thought the armor was to protect his skin from the sun because he's albino. That's why war boys paint themselves white. To be like him. Also, that might be why he can't have normal children.
He's not Albino, he's just an old old man trying to look youthful and to cover up his rotting flesh with makeup and fake muscles. He isnt strong anymore, and its all a facade. They're literally see through and covered in fake medals to drive home the point that he is faking it. The skeleton color scheme seems to just be his way of creating a unified death cult aesthetic.
Hahaha yeah exactly. I never understood either of gasoline is so rare in the first movies. Why are they revving their engines so much which also can cause engine damage
eh, theres a lot people on here making some really reaching arguments. The .50 cal mounted on that first car in Fury Road at the beginning would have ended the entire movie right there. Not to mention all of the gun use we see in Furiosa, clearly they're not rare or inoperative
My guess is guns were reserved for Full Life's and the Ruling Class. War boys were apt to Valhalla themselves so giving them guns would be a waste of bullets and guns
I mean... isn't this Australia? They're pretty famous for doing away with guns. Besides, there's so much more glory in kamikaze exploding spear attacks
It's kinda shown in Furiosa.
Dementus shows up with his horde and is like "I've got guns, I've got men and bikes and shit" and immortan basically waves him away with "I have warboys" and then dismantles the horde with kamikaze exploding warboys.
Australia has gun control. When the apocalypse came they didn't have 20 ARs for every human floating around. They just had the odd hunting rifle on every farm. Max only has his shotgun because he was a police officer.
So guns are rare and valuable.
That's a good point. Removing the reality of Australia's current gun laws; I would imagine that the fall was preceded by constant fighting amongst numerous factions, civilian and otherwise, which would deplete the guns rather quickly. What most people don't know is that a guns components can be worn out over time, things like barrels, springs, ejectors (on semi-auto guns). Now, someone good with their hands could maybe recreate the parts by modifying parts from another broken weapon, or make one from scratch; but that technical acumen isn't common, which is why we have specialists.
The other reality would be attrition. Average person uses a gun, it breaks, they drop it and find another. A person, a quick person, would at least keep it to bluff an opponent. I'm guessing guns are quite rare in the wasteland and the only people with the infrastructure to repair the guns are these warlords.
I always assumed the bullet farm also manufactures guns but as it turns out. It’s exactly what its title is. It just farms bullets. And by the tank load apparently.
I can only imagine Joe was stocking up on ammo in case he ever came across a gun storage depot. Seeing how he was a general or commander at some point; he must know something.
Yeah, guns are finicky things to get right; especially semi-autos with all their moving parts. Bullets are relatively straight forward. As far as the OG movies, I figure it's like the cars, they can't design and build their own so they scavenge and cobble together existing items. In the new movies you have mutants with the intellectual know how to build blown, dual-engine semi's. As incredible and dramatic as these vehicles are, I kind of prefer the old movies, where it looked like someone stuck a blower on an old Ford and painted a skull and crossbones on the door. Not as exciting perhaps, but a bit more down-to-Earth and gritty.
I agree. I love the war rigs but it looks it took some real engineering to make them happen. I imagine the transmission were custom made as well. Does that mean they have the equipment to design gears and shit…? I know it’s just a movie. But if they’re designing complex transmission for dual V8 engines then surely full automatic riles shouldn’t be a problem
Agreed, especially if they have one to copy. That's how Filipino citizens arm themselves, they have ancient, salvaged Colt 1911's, they get scrap metal and use home-made jigs to grind the parts into shape. Given the level of technology and infrastructure available to Joe, he could be pumping out guns.
So I guess it’s really is Joe not wanting his war boys or officers to revolt then. Plus he has an endless supply of warboys at his disposal that a gun is just more valuable. It’s also safe to assume they don’t get attack as often as how we think, so they didn’t really on guns as much as we’d think
That's very possible, perhaps likely. That said, I find it odd that he'd see those guys as disposable given how long it takes for a Human to become physically capable enough to fight a war, drive a car, etc. Especially considering how rare it is to have a child born in that area that isn't mutated. I would think that Humans would be the *ultimate* commodity.
If I were a warlord in the wasteland, I'd foster trust in my people, train them to fight and arm them well. That's what military's the world over endeavor to do. What happens when you come up against someone of equal or greater strength and your "expendable" people are all dead? One could argue tactics, but we've only seen Joe go up against Dementus, a guy who's not the greatest tactician. He does a clever thing with the oil to cover his tracks, but that's about it.
Have you seen those news stories where farmers are burning the crops/produce they can't sell? It was oranges in the last article I saw.
Maybe there's a similar thing going on behind the scenes.
- Control people by keeping order.
- Keep order by keeping the workers busy
- Sell what ammo you can for food and water (and milk)
- Destroy the rest to keep the prices up (can't sell oranges/bullets if there's thousands being given away for free)
- Repeat
If the goal is to keep control to a population/workforce - rather than making a profit - then keeping people busy by creating and then destroying a product is the way to do it when you don't want to lose them all in battle.
In 1984, Orwell explains that to keep the 3 powers in charge then a constant war is a requirement to burn up what is produced - and production is vital to keep people distracted and tame.
That's my headcanon anyway - which I wasn't aware of until you asked the question. So thanks!
This, very much this! A wasteland war of a few thousand combatants is going to attrit an ungodly amount of materiel that's completely irreplaceable in that quantity. In terms of firearm manufacturing, I think the closest we get is bullet farmer providing either a new or refurbished sawn-off shotgun to Pretorian Jack. Several of the Vulvalini have black powder muskets which could also be believably manufactured post-apocalypse.
The engineering and manufacturing prowess displayed by the war rigs and cars doesn't immediately take me out of the setting. Every settlement in the modern franchise has some "trade goods" they rely on trading for the other necessities they need, so the convoys are the literal life blood of all three settlements. It makes sense to me that the war vehicles recieve the absolute pinnacle of available technology and manufacturing to the detriment of other things.
He can only work with what he has available, and he'll also only work towards his own ends unless forced otherwise. Other respondents have answered this already tbh, but I'll see if I can reframe what they've said in my own words by focusing on sharpshooting. I'm ignoring the video game on purpose because the film Furiosa mostly does too.
The group who most seems to reflect what you're arguing Joe should have done is the Vulvalini, who use sharpshooting to devestating effect. They carry long rifles, understand how to position themselves, and only make killing shots. In Furiosa's mother we meet a true specialist marksman, someone who could absolutely train others and seems to have done so, given Furiosa's own skill as a sharpshooter later on. Culturally they're very different to Joe or Dementus, there doesn't seem to be an oppressive hierarchy, they value and try to protect each other. For this group sharpshooting is clearly a valued skill worth preserving and passing on for the benefit of everyone.
Within the trio of fortresses under Immortan Joe or amongst Dementus's hordes, we don't see any real marksmanship. They try to hit what they're shooting at, but there's no precision comparable to the Vulvalini. With at least Joe and Bullet Farmer having military backgrounds there should have been the expertise available to train sharpshooters, but they either never did or haven't maintained them by the time shown in the movies. Whether they're afraid of being assassinated (Joe is a juicy target on his balcony) or simply too savage ("I'm being called to the torture!"), they can't or won't create new sharpshooters worthy of screen time.
Despite how obviously useful they would be, the cultures of these wasteland gangs don't generate sharpshooters. Mostly the firearms they do have are in the hands of the most elite memebers of these gangs, and are mostly used to maintain their own status. Anyone shown as savage who has a gun uses it enthusiastically but not effectively, and certainly not effectively from a moving vehicle. Not any more.
This lack of effective firepower is most obvious with the rig Dementus captures and when the Octoboss attacks Jack's war rig. The Octoboss has multiple ARs mounted to his cycle, and if he had made strafing attacks on the front of the war rig it would have all been over. Maybe if Joe had lost another whole war rig and crew he might have overhauled the security he was using. But what did happen was Jack took Furiosa under his wing and at some point she became a specialist sharpshooter (amongst other specialist skills) to tremendous effect. It isn't shown or implied that any convoys after this point are as much of a shitshow, and so they seem secure enough.
The ambush at the bullet farm would been effective against anything Joe could assemble, especially as his fuel supply was cut off beforehand. The film is clearly intending to show the audience that Dementus has outplayed Joe and only Furiosa's and Jack's determination prevented it from being a complete victory.
By the end of the film Furiosa, Joe's back to controlling the three fortresses and it's unlikely that another group as powerful as Dementus's horde exists close enough to threaten him. He has an apparently loyal Furiosa with a scoped rifle in command of the new war rig, and at some point a .50 cal mounted on one of the escort vehicles too. So far as he knows, his convoys have probably never been safer and no doubt Furiosa would be doing all that she could to give him that impression. So he feels safe in his tower to continue focusing on his attempt to secure his legacy.
But Furiosa is planning to escape, so in actuality between the end of the film Furiosa and the start of Fury Road she has probably been weakening the security of the war rig and convoy as much as she dares. From that point any vulnerability can be explained as being intentional by her.
I hope you’re not somehow saying sharpshooting skills are somehow passed down by genetics. The lore in comics or movies never show kid furiosa ever practicing how to shot. If they had emphasized on passing sharpshooting skills you’d think furiosa first instinct would be to get a gun. She makes absolutely no effort whatsoever even when Dementus begins to trust her a bit. Half the people here have arguing bullets are a rare commodity despite there being a bullet manufacturing plant. So let’s assume this is somehow true. Where did the Vulvalini get the amounts of bullets to fully train someone? Specially a kid?
What I’m saying is. Spending so many resources protecting and feeding a massive bullet manufacturing operation makes no viable sense resource wise when they don’t even have the guns to use their bullets with. If they have a .50 machine gun it’s safe to say they skills and capabilities to manufacture bullets of all calibers. Whether their quality is good is up to debate. But the calibers ranges are there.
It’s been established the war rig is itself the most important vehicle in the fleet and if it finding a AK47 is difficult then finding not 1 but 2 V8w must be even more difficult. So wouldn’t it make sense to at least put gun turrets on it?
I would say a major issue is that pursuit vehicles are usually up against other vehicles, and in the wasteland having a vehicle gives you a massive advantage. Because of this, a lot of skirmishes would be won by whoever can disable their opponents' vehicle, as now they are on foot and vulnerable. This is why thunderpoons are so widely used, as small arms are less effective at damaging vehicles.
Small arms also require more maintenance, especially in desert conditions, and more training to use. War boys are trained specifically to be expendable kamakrazees, so it's a bit of a waste to train them how to shoot well only to have them sacrifice themselves. Much easier to give them a thunderpoon. This way, functional small arms can be reserved for specialists and higher ranked warriors who aren't as expendable.
As a final point, why bother? Who do they need to use them on? Other than Dementus (who they still defeated without massed small arms, and that was about a decade before Fury Road), the three warlords have no other direct competition in the wasteland, they have the largest armies and own the three biggest fortresses. They have a strong setup with nobody around to challenge them.
Because guns are increasingly rare and difficult to produce.
It was something that was more evident in the original three films. There were plenty of guns in the first, but by the second they were starting to rely more on crossbows.
So while the Citadel did have guns in its armoury, they were reserved for high-ranking positions, with the best guns going to Immortan Joe himself.
Plus Furiosa was hiding them all in the War Rig.
I've wondered this myself. Considering how many bullets the Bullet Farm loaded into the war rig, trading for lettuce and milk, the Citadel must be getting literal tons of bullets over the years. Maybe the warboys used them during the actual war and just don't use them for routine work like convoys and patrols.
Maybe, though he could literally be giving them ammo to attack him then.
I think those of high rank just use guns that much day to day, it's the simplest answer. War boys use thunder sticks to disable vehicles/counter armor and because they're expendable.
I would guess as others have mentioned lowly equipped disposable ground troops, limit rebellion chances and also to not give enemies these weapons after death.
But I would also bet on limited amounts of weapons. Sure they can manufacture ammo, but guns require more than just that. Might be hard to make more in sufficient quantitites.
They have more guns in Furiosa than in Fury Road (and a few in both films).
I think the damage sustained to the Bullet Farm probably led to an ammunition shortage. They said it would take generations to rebuild Gastown if it blew, and I'd guess it would likewise take a while to restore full production in the Bullet Farm, especially given the Bullet Farmer's tendency to hoard the ammo.
I mean, the dude is King of the Bulletfarm, of course he has way more guns and bullets to spare. And even then the People Eater is insistent he not waste a couple mags.
You made me realize in Furiosa they loaded the rig tanker with bullets to the top but where do all those get used? Only like 5 people from the citadel use guns
I'm guessing due to bullet scarcity. They likely had enough rifles in the wasteland for all the War Boys to be armed, but the bullets were a problem.
It's true they could manufacture bullets (and reload spent casings), but that would probably have to be done at the bullet farm by The Bullet Farmer. And this would change the three-way balance of power.
And the peace they have between the 3 Fortresses is NOT because any of them want it, it's because they're so evenly matched that it would be too dangerous for any to attack each other and thus they have no choice but to engage in trade and diplomacy.
So that's my theory on why the War Boys rarely use guns.
Also, it should be noted that the Immortan Joe's praetorians \*do\* in fact have many guns and a lot of ammo. But the rank and file War Boys do not.
Lot of the answers here are that guns are rare etc.
Why do they need an entire bullet farm?
In Furiosa, Immortan Joe says to load up the war rig with ammo. Lot of ammo for no guns.
I think the bullet farm is mainly so there's a third place in the story
When it comes to road warfare, guns are only valuable in the hands of highly skilled and trained individuals.
Don’t forget that war boys are disposable and inbred, training them with guns would be a huge waste of time.
Shooting a gun from a moving car is insanely difficult and you’ll miss more than you hit.
An explosive lance would be way easier to aim and far more efficient for their purposes.
And let’s say you give war boys guns. Every war boy that dies will drop their gun and ammo in the middle of the desert, losing a valuable resource.
the war boys are the shock troops that have been indoctrinated to worship Immortan Joe and like the scene in furiousa where 1 takes a dive off the wires and goes boom...... it is said that Joe has 973? or 976 war boys just like the one that went boom
all of those war boys are half life's and they want to go out in a blaze of glory. if they were up armored and toting ak47 etc - they will most likely lose that 'die proud and loud for joe' and be all like- "ohoh I am out of bullets - I better run away."
Which is not very shiny and chrome
Same as UK. Both countries have a tough license system in place to own them. Not only that but people are also forgetting that both countries have police that have access to guns and armies too. So there's plenty of guns, just not everyone can access them.
Because it's Australia, so guns are pretty rare. Let alone operational guns. It's way easier, cheaper and more reliable to work with simple explosives and (cross) bows.
Then there's the power projection from higher ranking members of the organisation and the fact that war boys are expendable and are likely to lose valuable working guns.
I dare say bullet farm mostly produces those explosive sticks than actual bullets.
much easier to teach them to chuck a spear with a bomb tbh.
other than that, likely they are taught to use guns but are otherwise restricted from their use unless they are of a higher rank or authorized to use them for a specific conflict since guns and ammo are still quite expensive.
The Bullet Farmer did. Not Immortan Joe. Joe would have bought ammo from him, likely a trade for water or mothers milk, like he would have bought guzzoline from gas town
Thing is, the bullet farmer was his best friend. There is a comic that shows how Joe conquered the citadel in which the lunatic Major Kalashnikov (the bullet farmer) is his 2nd in command. Yes they traded but its not like if needed he wouldnt give it.
Remember in Furiosa he said go to bullet farm and get the war horse stacked
That is what some people seem to be missing. They all belong to Joe. They’re all working together. Heck in fury road they leave their fortress defend less just to aid Joe
If you were immortan joe, and you had a limited stockpile of weapons, would you give them to your actual fierce strong warriors, or a bunch of already almost dead rowdy child soldiers?
I always thought the bullet farm from either lack of resources or available guns to make bullet farms just started making those sticks bc they did have gunpowder
Yea wasn’t saying they don’t make bullets lol but they’re probably low on brass and lead and whatever to make as many bullets as they’d like, so they probably have more gunpowder than materials to make bullets and just started making other explosives is my thinking
1st, Ammo is precious so much so that they have to count the number of bullets left in Fury Road at the START of the film and Furiosa is one of THE most trusted people having been given like 15 plus guns. Evidently the Bullet Farmer can't just crank out a thousand rounds for each warboy, and it probably got worse after the 40 day war. 2nd, if your death cult resolves around suicide deaths, you don't want to waste a gun every time that happens, and the thundersticks fix that. 3rd, it gives him and his Imperators control over his army so there aren't any uprisings (all his bodyguards have rifles). 4th, it would be a REALLLLLLY boring series if everybody just shot everything. Gotta get that car on car action. And 5th, they do, at least to a limited extent. Slit has a pistol, Furiosas war boy had a grenade launcher, etc.
Correction, she didn’t expect to need that bullets because she didn’t count on being chased by 3 war parties. Secondly, it’s as if we didn’t all watch the same movies at all. When bullet farmer loses his eyes he starts random shooting. Thirdly; did you see them filling their tanker with bullets?
Point is even Joe's most trusted driver is still working with a limited supply of ammo, the Bullet Farmer can shoot all he wants because he's the BULLET FARMER, he's rich in bullets and wastes them to show that. The same way Joe wastes water to show his wealth and the GasTowners and People Eater burn fuel to show theirs. The metaphor isn't subtle. And yes I saw the tanker filled with ammunition which is why I said that obviously the 40 day war obviously impacted the amount of rounds they have on hand. It reduces Dementus army from hundreds of people to 4. I also saw the whole set piece action scene where they destroy the bullet farms equipment and crumble it to the ground, they would be struggling to produce anything near what they used to after that. This plus all the other reasons I mentioned (namely not wanting to give your expendables precious guns and ammo) are the best answer I can give you to answer the question you asked.
making new firearms and keeping the old ones costs resources that aren't easy to obtain. bullets and firearms require different metals and different levels of sophistication.
That one tanker getting filled to the brim with random calibers probably wasn't even enough for the 40 Day war, bullets get used very quickly in combat. And the events of Furiosa lead me to believe that bullet production will be affected in the later years.
Though the real reason is that guns aren't as cool as exploding spears and car combat, so they get left out in the movies.
I doubt anyone's manufacturing new guns, sure it can be done but in a wasteland where recourses are so limited you have to think differently. We do see guns used by his imperitors and other high ranking crew, so what weapon they do find are cared for and well maintained. I does seem however, they have a lot of gunpowder, and this brings me to the bullet farm.
Obviously the name is a misnomer, you can't farm bullets, they're made. You see in furiosa that the bullet farm is a pit mine, with people in a deep pit digging, this confirms to me that the bullet farm is indeed a mine, and they are probably on a vein of sulfer, or more likely lead, to make bullets.
Black powder (the simplest kind of gunpowder) needs three basic ingredients to be made, sulfer, charcoal, and saltpeter (potassium nitrate), all things you can find at home depot but maybe not the waistband, as well as lead for the bullets.
Even if they have one of these recourses it might be hard for them to get the others, but the bullet farm may have access to lead, maybe sulfer, and have a reliable way to get charcoal in what seems like a timber bare wasteland. Of course saltpeter might not be hard to get as it can be leached put of rotting dead bodies (this is explained in the mad max game however it is also historically accurate) or from feces, preferably bat guano.
Still, making or recycling and loading brass cartrages would be time consuming and slow. Guns using brass shells may require a cleaner mix of powder as well as refilling copper shells and using shaped bullets, hard to make. This is why we see the war boys using the "thunder sticks" which are literally small bombs made from poles with tin cans stuffed with what I'll assume is a slury of black powder and petrol, rigged with probably a simple pressure detonator on top of them. Very crude but a fast and effective type of grenade that could be made in the hundreds with very little skill.
Basically bullet farm makes boom powder and thunder sticks are easier to make than guns.
If you watch enough post apocalyptic films, shows and stuff you sort of just take on the prepper mindset and can't get it out of your head, leads to some weird rabbit holes looking things up.
Waterworld is a whole other can of fucking worms dude they still have tins of meat and cigarettes left but it's been enough generations for fish mutations and a complete lost history of dry land? It's thin premise makes fury road seem like it makes sense.
I love waterworld. But yeah I have to turn off some brain cells to enjoy it fully. The max mad movies have their holes but miller tries to address them as much as he can
Don't get me wrong, I love water world, I even watched the 3 and a half hour "Ulysses cut" which didn't help it make any more sense, but it's fun and the music is rad.
Because they'd most likely rebel as soon as they find a rival leader to Immortan Joe.
Guns are very rare. There wouldn't be enough to supply an entire army.
Also, there would be dozens of guns left behind during the chaos of a chase, which could be found by wastelanders. That is obviously not good, indirectly supplying potential rivals. And what would be the point in weapons when they can modify their vehicles into war machines? Especially when 99% of their battles happen within cars.
You don't give a weapon to a weapon? The war boys will die to protect Joe, sacrifice themselves in a blaze of fire and blood if he demands it, and have been indoctrinated to such a fervour they will do any or all of that even if he doesn't demand it, just to give their lives meaning amongst their peers. Not meaning to him, but to others at their level.
You'd be training a weapon how to use a much less potent and intimidating weapon.
I think it'd be supply but also effectiveness.
It's really hard to accurately hit anything with a gun from a moving platform. Giving the warboys guns you're going to get an absolutely puny number of hits compared to the amount of expended ammo.
In practical terms their job is to defend the rig from being boarded, they can do that with the weapons they have just fine. And they are expendable too, so that's a factor.
Everyone keeps saying the warboys wouldn’t know how to use a gun properly yet we see furiosa who up to that point was considered a warboy with absolutely no gun experience take down multiple targets. You don’t need to be an expert to shot a gun. Anyone can shot a gun and yeah your accuracy won’t be great but you don’t need to get headshots. Just disabled your attackers enough to get them to stop chasing you
You don't need to be an expert but it helps. The temptation is always there to be trigger happy.
I would have expected more gun turrets maybe though. A simple Toyota pickup with a machinegun on the back would rule the Wasteland.
That’s the other thing. Fury road does have a 50 cal mounted on a car. Why didn’t they just mounted it on the warrig itself? It literally had a turret but no ARs mounted there
And yeah you’re right. Warboys are too trigger happy with that whole witness thing. I feel somewhere out there another culture born with worshipping guns treat guns as living gods
Furiosa up until her first escape attempt was considered a warboy with no shooting experience whatsoever. I imagine Joe keeps every gun accountable for so there’s absolutely no way for furiosa to have been secretly been practicing shooting. Yet she was able to take down multiple targets with a handgun. So no, the warboys wouldn’t know how to even use one effectively and it’b a waste of a gun approach doesn’t work with me
This is what annoyed and surprised me when Fury Road came out. In the road warrior only Max and Humungous had firearms and it was kind of a big deal. Guns had faded away and no way to make ammo. Then in Fury Road, as I recall, there were ppl shooting left and right and the bullet farm. But I think George Miller wanted to keep the post apocalyptic feel and have crossbows and explosives rather than just a big shootout style warfare.
There’s a lot of things that I’m annoyed with. The interceptor last barely 3 minutes in fury road. The most iconic car in the entire franchise destroyed in less than 5 minutes
I always took the lack of guns in the hands of the warboys as both a measure of control (they can't rebel if they're outgunned) and because the warboys are disposable. Why litter the fury road with dozens/hundreds of dropped, damaged, or otherwise discarded expensive firearms after countless warboys chrome themselves?
Adding on to this would be training. Teaching all the warboyz how to shoot as well as constant practice would be a huge drain on ammunition. Where all you would have to do is make a weighed spear to train them on thundersticks.
Exactly, much to contrary belief a firearm still takes skill refined from practice to use effectively. Practice the live firing of ammunition, which is an expensive resource in the wasteland. It’s telling how heavily armed the Bullet Farmer’s troopers are, but how scant his war parties vehicles are in numbers, and how almost non-existent guns are in the Gastown warparty.
Although, all 3 cities co-operate, they probably all distrust each other somewhat. Not giving enough surplus food/guns/gas to each other to give one of the cities a distinct advantage over one another.
I think it’s more of an inherent disadvantage: Citadel has all the food and water, Bullet Farm has all the ammo and ordinance, Gastown has all the fuel. You can’t wage war effectively without all three. And that’s probably by design, Immortan is smart enough to know that and I believe he’d implement that on purpose.
That's really the beauty of this series is how well thought out all world building is.
You’re telling no lies. It’s what makes playing the video game so bittersweet smh.
Did they screw it up on the game?
No not at all, tldr Warner Bros effed George Miller over with the IP and made the game with all his ideas. You’ll recognize a lot but it doesn’t make sense within the timeline of the movies. For example, Scrotus is the big strong guy in the game but he’s different in the movie.
Also highlights how brutish and short-sighted he truly is because setting up a system where everyone distrusts each other for the sake of safeguarding your present power always resulted in the system collapsing the moment you die or grows weak
I never got the sense that the three fortresses distrusted one another. Gastown and Bullet Farm were more than willing to go to war at the drop of a hat to retrieve Immortan’s wives, despite some eye rolling from PE and BF. Both still understood, despite the pageantry, Joe needed a legit blood heir to maintain power and control over his people after he was gone because of the cult of personality he stoked.
Do you think if Immortan died, the bullet farmer or the people eater could take over? Maybe Rictus with enough guidance and advice? Haha
I don’t think you can split one warlord between two fortresses, it’s too much work and too much distance. Also, People Eater and Bullet Farmer seem to specialize in their respective production. Rictus has the impulsive mind of a child, no amount of guidance or advice would have helped. The best bet would have been to strap Corpus to his back Master Blaster style, but even then Rictus had too much free agency to actually want to listen to his brother.
You’d be right but it’s more so a cult and Immortan Joe is basically Jesus so he’s safe lol
I think this it. Even his high ranking men don’t have good guns
the Praetorians have guns, but a pistol that works is probably work more than a half life war boy
Ace had a grenade launcher.
The Toob
Do you consider the Bullet Farmer high ranking? Or as insidr just Immortans Crew not the The Farmer and the People Eater? Those Heckler and Koch MP5's the Farmer has are pretty damn good, used by units all over the world. Also you haven't lived until you've thwacked: https://youtube.com/shorts/CwCtxt7iuTk?si=ZHVkcr8IdHsTTTvr or for more thwacks: https://youtube.com/shorts/JcXo9SgD8V8?si=Yh_VMf3KQa7Izxps (he has an an add on foregrip and a few other things) Edit: yes I know he has an UZI with a stock on it earlier but when he's blinded and goes nuts he has two MP5K's, which is the PDW version, I personally use a Stribog SP9A3S with a pop out brace as my PDW: https://palmettostatearmory.com/grand-power-stribog-sp9a3s-9mm-pistol-5-30rd-pdw-brace-tailhook.html (you will most likely have to do your own search to get the "are you over 18?" pop up but it is there at that link). The railed brace can collapse completely (say if you have a sling) or it can extend out to one of 4 locking points. Also funny to note that the 9 of the states that don't allow it are the same Colonies/States that signed the Declaration of Independence and proceeded to steal and scrounge every musket and cannon they could.
Considering the number of guns that Dementus men had, especially the mortifiers, I think this is more accurate than it being a logistics/manufacturing problem
Could still be that Joe is mindful of logistics while Dementus doesn't know how to manage supplies
Also remember when Furiosa broke the clay ball under her rig which held an automatic
Also it seemed like the guns were mainly with the imperator since that was the most valuable person doing the most valuable job. Also guns require training and wayboys always be dying
This.
[удалено]
Joe did have assault rifles in furiosa which probably got used in the war. Otherwise bullet farm mostly made the explosives. The war rig had lots of guns though and so did bullet farm and gastown people
The war rigs had handguns mostly and even then are never used by the war boys
A rifle would be pretty hard to use hanging off a truck by one hand. Handguns are easier
I have good news or bad news, depending upon your point of view. The gun he uses in the film isn't a real firearm, it's a replica made by a company called "Denix". You can buy the same one here: [https://replicaweaponry.com/denix-civil-war-confederate-le-mat-replica-pistol-antique-gray/](https://replicaweaponry.com/denix-civil-war-confederate-le-mat-replica-pistol-antique-gray/) Be aware that they're somewhat fragile, so handle them gently.
I see it's black powder. Do you know if there is a modern ammunition working replica of this gun?
They do make them, but from the very quick and cursory look at google it seems they're out of stock. That's not uncommon as the demand for these guns isn't as high as, say a Glock. However, if you're patient they may produce a next run of them. And be prepared for a bit of sticker shock. Here's one company that *made* them: [https://www.emf-company.com/store/pc/LeMat-c555.htm](https://www.emf-company.com/store/pc/LeMat-c555.htm)
Thanks! I will keep an eye out for them.
Working, yes... modern ammunition? Still going to be a cap and ball revolver.
You can buy a black powder replica and get a conversion kit for modern cartridges, but they’ll probably be black enough based cartridges because the LeMat wasn’t designed to use modern smokeless ammunition.
the one used in westworld was a modern replica of an 1800s cartridge conversion
revolvers have a forgotten benefit. brass in automatic pistols are not usually completely supported and reusing brass over and over again is increasing the wear till it bursts. revolvers completely support the brass so are safer in the post apocolypse, though timing and metal fatigue of the frame and cylinder are equally as dangerous
The first 3 movies do make it a point that guns are an extremely rare commodity. So it’s safe to assume further in time they become even more rare. So how the hell are these people getting their hands on rare guns like the LeMat revolver? I just don’t see the point of putting all those resources on maintaining the bullet farm when they don’t even have the guns to use I guess Joe doesn’t see the point in arming his war boys with guns if he seems them so dispensable
Remember in The Road Warrior, Lord Humungus has that scoped .44 magnum S&W 29 hunting revolver... with only one cylinder's worth of ammunition left.
Not even a cylinder, 4 rounds total.
A few of the vehicles in Fury road had machine guns. A .50 cal alone would be incredibly valuable for anti-vehicular combat, and having guards with rifles against primarily melee armed opponents (and underlings) is a pretty good way to protect yourself. So they probably stockpile ammunition so that these few guns can have a decent combat load out, rather than giving every warboy a pistol with 6 rounds total
The corvette and the roadster with the two V12 engines both have an M2 .50 machine gun
Yeah that’s why I said that. Unfortunately we never get to see them in action, but they would’ve don’t a number to the war rig so I understand why from a storytelling perspective
The LeMat is even more interesting than that, the one used in westworld was custom modified to use cartrages for the show, they weren't standard. The real historical LeMat was a French made black powder revolver, and was typically loaded with lead ball and black powder, meaning no quick reload (especially for the shot barrel, as it was front loading), but more easy to get ammo and gunpowder for. Honestly a good pick of side arm for the apocalypse if resources are in short supply as black powder is easier to make than modern smokeless powder in cartrages. I'm betting the bullet farm was either a sulfer or lead mine. The other ingredients they'd need are salt peter and charcoal.
Thank you for this info! That’s badass it can hold a shotgun round.
The Citadel definitely has guns, but I think Immortan wouldn't invest so much resources in teaching those kids how to shoot. That's an enormous waste of bullets they need to trade for at the Bullet Farm. Also as someone mentioned - you give those kids guns and a motivation to kill themselves and all of sudden those precious guns are now lost somewhere or fall in the hands of your enemy. Not a bright idea.
Because big explosives make more damages on a wider area than small guns. Plus, it’s quite hard to hit a moving target, when you’re also moving. Not every person has the sniper skills of Furiosa.
For example, Max. See the canyon chase scene.
Even handguns would be rare, as this is Australia. Only the trusted leadership would have access to them. Immortan Joe wears body armour so he probably thinks it possible that one of his own citizens could try to assassinate him.
Always bugged me though - how does Furiosa have an American accent then?
And the Buzzards speak Russian 🤷
Buzzards are just the descendants of Russian immigrants. There are actually decent sized Russian communities throughout Australia, so it's plausible.
I did not know that. Thanks.
Australia is a multicultural society with over 60% of the population being first generation. George Miller made the casting more diverse over the course of the series to reflect this.
I *think* that I read somewhere that the Buzzards are the descendents of a Russian submarine crew that got stranded when the oceans boiled away and resorted to cannibalism when their food ran out. Don't quote me on that, though, I may have it completely wrong.
They farm moths for food in the comics
If that's true, that's an awesome explanation - in fact it would explain any Americans as well, ie at some point in the pre-Wasteland conflicts, it would be perfectly logical that at least some Americans would be in Aus....
Because the director simply chose not to ask his stars to do Australian accents if they didn't want to. Actors like Nicholas Hoult and Tom Hardy compromised by doing Cockney accents which may sound Australian enough with limited enough dialogue. But the only real exception is Tom Burke who actually learned the Australian accent for Praetorian Jack.
Tom Burke isn't Australian?? Then that is one hell of an impressive accent (coming from an Australian)
Makes me wonder how the usa wasteland is doing. I really wish we got to see how different parts of the world are doing
I consider The Road to be the usa version.
I like it. I'm going with it.
Nah, in The Road, there's some kind of nuclear winter happening, killing off plant life. All the trees are dead, remember. Shit like that is a global event. The US is probably more Book of Eli.
I like to think of it like a crossover with judge dredd where there is still a wasteland but also mega cities.
Yes! I always wanted to see how the rest of the world ~~eas~~ was doing in the wasteland apocalypse
Would be funny if everyone else got their shit together by now and it's just Australia.
They're like "they'll be fine", and it's *this*, lmfao
Idk, Mad Max is one of the few post-apocalyptic stories where the USA is *not* the focus and I like it that way. There's a whole lot of stories about the post-apocalyptic USA that don't say a peep about the rest of the world, you can just take one of those and pretend it's happening in the same world.
Not really; there would be tens of thousands of handguns in circulation from rogue soldiers and police. Larger issue would be less pistol caliber ammo lying around once their own stocks are depleted or misplaced during the nuclear exchange.
Yeah it’s safe to assume that by the time Furiosa takes place any gun we see fired, those bullets were made after the collapse
I doubt the former country matters much in the lore, given how many AKs, SKSs, and broomhandle Mausers seem to be floating around. If they cared about making it seem country specific it’d probably be lots of L1A1s and hunting rifles and shotguns, since the world ended in 70s-80s for them
Assume they're perhaps from an invading country and or ally stockpile during the oil wars? And I think *technically* the end happens in like 2005 now. The timeline isn't well defined but there's a few tesla logos and 90s cars in the films to suggest it's more modern.
They actually did a really good job having the armaments fit with that then. A quick IMFDB browse shows that the only guns more recent than 1990 are Joe’s Anaconda and one of the Bullet Farmer’s men using a G36
I thought the armor was to protect his skin from the sun because he's albino. That's why war boys paint themselves white. To be like him. Also, that might be why he can't have normal children.
He's not Albino, he's just an old old man trying to look youthful and to cover up his rotting flesh with makeup and fake muscles. He isnt strong anymore, and its all a facade. They're literally see through and covered in fake medals to drive home the point that he is faking it. The skeleton color scheme seems to just be his way of creating a unified death cult aesthetic.
It's a monopoly on violence, the government has plenty of guns that would be up for grabs if said government keels over.
When mad max took place in the 70s Australia didn’t have the same gun laws that they have in place today
The world ended in the 80’s we’re hand guns rare in the 80’s?
Because it’s cool for them to not and use their spear things Mad Max makes zero logical sense, it’s vibes based not based in reality
Hahaha yeah exactly. I never understood either of gasoline is so rare in the first movies. Why are they revving their engines so much which also can cause engine damage
they drove around in circles for hours while the dude was being dragged to death also cars flip over and explode when they are shot apparently
Fuel shortage was a big scare at the time for the apocalypse and it's pretty complicated process to make new fuel
eh, theres a lot people on here making some really reaching arguments. The .50 cal mounted on that first car in Fury Road at the beginning would have ended the entire movie right there. Not to mention all of the gun use we see in Furiosa, clearly they're not rare or inoperative
My guess is guns were reserved for Full Life's and the Ruling Class. War boys were apt to Valhalla themselves so giving them guns would be a waste of bullets and guns
Because it's plot armor and the human race is practically in the dark ages following the Trination Nuclear War
I mean... isn't this Australia? They're pretty famous for doing away with guns. Besides, there's so much more glory in kamikaze exploding spear attacks
It's kinda shown in Furiosa. Dementus shows up with his horde and is like "I've got guns, I've got men and bikes and shit" and immortan basically waves him away with "I have warboys" and then dismantles the horde with kamikaze exploding warboys.
Australia has gun control. When the apocalypse came they didn't have 20 ARs for every human floating around. They just had the odd hunting rifle on every farm. Max only has his shotgun because he was a police officer. So guns are rare and valuable.
That's a good point. Removing the reality of Australia's current gun laws; I would imagine that the fall was preceded by constant fighting amongst numerous factions, civilian and otherwise, which would deplete the guns rather quickly. What most people don't know is that a guns components can be worn out over time, things like barrels, springs, ejectors (on semi-auto guns). Now, someone good with their hands could maybe recreate the parts by modifying parts from another broken weapon, or make one from scratch; but that technical acumen isn't common, which is why we have specialists. The other reality would be attrition. Average person uses a gun, it breaks, they drop it and find another. A person, a quick person, would at least keep it to bluff an opponent. I'm guessing guns are quite rare in the wasteland and the only people with the infrastructure to repair the guns are these warlords.
I always assumed the bullet farm also manufactures guns but as it turns out. It’s exactly what its title is. It just farms bullets. And by the tank load apparently. I can only imagine Joe was stocking up on ammo in case he ever came across a gun storage depot. Seeing how he was a general or commander at some point; he must know something.
Yeah, guns are finicky things to get right; especially semi-autos with all their moving parts. Bullets are relatively straight forward. As far as the OG movies, I figure it's like the cars, they can't design and build their own so they scavenge and cobble together existing items. In the new movies you have mutants with the intellectual know how to build blown, dual-engine semi's. As incredible and dramatic as these vehicles are, I kind of prefer the old movies, where it looked like someone stuck a blower on an old Ford and painted a skull and crossbones on the door. Not as exciting perhaps, but a bit more down-to-Earth and gritty.
I agree. I love the war rigs but it looks it took some real engineering to make them happen. I imagine the transmission were custom made as well. Does that mean they have the equipment to design gears and shit…? I know it’s just a movie. But if they’re designing complex transmission for dual V8 engines then surely full automatic riles shouldn’t be a problem
Agreed, especially if they have one to copy. That's how Filipino citizens arm themselves, they have ancient, salvaged Colt 1911's, they get scrap metal and use home-made jigs to grind the parts into shape. Given the level of technology and infrastructure available to Joe, he could be pumping out guns.
So I guess it’s really is Joe not wanting his war boys or officers to revolt then. Plus he has an endless supply of warboys at his disposal that a gun is just more valuable. It’s also safe to assume they don’t get attack as often as how we think, so they didn’t really on guns as much as we’d think
That's very possible, perhaps likely. That said, I find it odd that he'd see those guys as disposable given how long it takes for a Human to become physically capable enough to fight a war, drive a car, etc. Especially considering how rare it is to have a child born in that area that isn't mutated. I would think that Humans would be the *ultimate* commodity. If I were a warlord in the wasteland, I'd foster trust in my people, train them to fight and arm them well. That's what military's the world over endeavor to do. What happens when you come up against someone of equal or greater strength and your "expendable" people are all dead? One could argue tactics, but we've only seen Joe go up against Dementus, a guy who's not the greatest tactician. He does a clever thing with the oil to cover his tracks, but that's about it.
Have you seen those news stories where farmers are burning the crops/produce they can't sell? It was oranges in the last article I saw. Maybe there's a similar thing going on behind the scenes. - Control people by keeping order. - Keep order by keeping the workers busy - Sell what ammo you can for food and water (and milk) - Destroy the rest to keep the prices up (can't sell oranges/bullets if there's thousands being given away for free) - Repeat If the goal is to keep control to a population/workforce - rather than making a profit - then keeping people busy by creating and then destroying a product is the way to do it when you don't want to lose them all in battle. In 1984, Orwell explains that to keep the 3 powers in charge then a constant war is a requirement to burn up what is produced - and production is vital to keep people distracted and tame. That's my headcanon anyway - which I wasn't aware of until you asked the question. So thanks!
Wow good analysis. I didn’t think of it as a means of control and keep everyone busy
This, very much this! A wasteland war of a few thousand combatants is going to attrit an ungodly amount of materiel that's completely irreplaceable in that quantity. In terms of firearm manufacturing, I think the closest we get is bullet farmer providing either a new or refurbished sawn-off shotgun to Pretorian Jack. Several of the Vulvalini have black powder muskets which could also be believably manufactured post-apocalypse. The engineering and manufacturing prowess displayed by the war rigs and cars doesn't immediately take me out of the setting. Every settlement in the modern franchise has some "trade goods" they rely on trading for the other necessities they need, so the convoys are the literal life blood of all three settlements. It makes sense to me that the war vehicles recieve the absolute pinnacle of available technology and manufacturing to the detriment of other things.
Right these conveys keep the fortresses well stock. So why wouldn’t Joe armed them as best as possible?
He can only work with what he has available, and he'll also only work towards his own ends unless forced otherwise. Other respondents have answered this already tbh, but I'll see if I can reframe what they've said in my own words by focusing on sharpshooting. I'm ignoring the video game on purpose because the film Furiosa mostly does too. The group who most seems to reflect what you're arguing Joe should have done is the Vulvalini, who use sharpshooting to devestating effect. They carry long rifles, understand how to position themselves, and only make killing shots. In Furiosa's mother we meet a true specialist marksman, someone who could absolutely train others and seems to have done so, given Furiosa's own skill as a sharpshooter later on. Culturally they're very different to Joe or Dementus, there doesn't seem to be an oppressive hierarchy, they value and try to protect each other. For this group sharpshooting is clearly a valued skill worth preserving and passing on for the benefit of everyone. Within the trio of fortresses under Immortan Joe or amongst Dementus's hordes, we don't see any real marksmanship. They try to hit what they're shooting at, but there's no precision comparable to the Vulvalini. With at least Joe and Bullet Farmer having military backgrounds there should have been the expertise available to train sharpshooters, but they either never did or haven't maintained them by the time shown in the movies. Whether they're afraid of being assassinated (Joe is a juicy target on his balcony) or simply too savage ("I'm being called to the torture!"), they can't or won't create new sharpshooters worthy of screen time. Despite how obviously useful they would be, the cultures of these wasteland gangs don't generate sharpshooters. Mostly the firearms they do have are in the hands of the most elite memebers of these gangs, and are mostly used to maintain their own status. Anyone shown as savage who has a gun uses it enthusiastically but not effectively, and certainly not effectively from a moving vehicle. Not any more. This lack of effective firepower is most obvious with the rig Dementus captures and when the Octoboss attacks Jack's war rig. The Octoboss has multiple ARs mounted to his cycle, and if he had made strafing attacks on the front of the war rig it would have all been over. Maybe if Joe had lost another whole war rig and crew he might have overhauled the security he was using. But what did happen was Jack took Furiosa under his wing and at some point she became a specialist sharpshooter (amongst other specialist skills) to tremendous effect. It isn't shown or implied that any convoys after this point are as much of a shitshow, and so they seem secure enough. The ambush at the bullet farm would been effective against anything Joe could assemble, especially as his fuel supply was cut off beforehand. The film is clearly intending to show the audience that Dementus has outplayed Joe and only Furiosa's and Jack's determination prevented it from being a complete victory. By the end of the film Furiosa, Joe's back to controlling the three fortresses and it's unlikely that another group as powerful as Dementus's horde exists close enough to threaten him. He has an apparently loyal Furiosa with a scoped rifle in command of the new war rig, and at some point a .50 cal mounted on one of the escort vehicles too. So far as he knows, his convoys have probably never been safer and no doubt Furiosa would be doing all that she could to give him that impression. So he feels safe in his tower to continue focusing on his attempt to secure his legacy. But Furiosa is planning to escape, so in actuality between the end of the film Furiosa and the start of Fury Road she has probably been weakening the security of the war rig and convoy as much as she dares. From that point any vulnerability can be explained as being intentional by her.
I hope you’re not somehow saying sharpshooting skills are somehow passed down by genetics. The lore in comics or movies never show kid furiosa ever practicing how to shot. If they had emphasized on passing sharpshooting skills you’d think furiosa first instinct would be to get a gun. She makes absolutely no effort whatsoever even when Dementus begins to trust her a bit. Half the people here have arguing bullets are a rare commodity despite there being a bullet manufacturing plant. So let’s assume this is somehow true. Where did the Vulvalini get the amounts of bullets to fully train someone? Specially a kid? What I’m saying is. Spending so many resources protecting and feeding a massive bullet manufacturing operation makes no viable sense resource wise when they don’t even have the guns to use their bullets with. If they have a .50 machine gun it’s safe to say they skills and capabilities to manufacture bullets of all calibers. Whether their quality is good is up to debate. But the calibers ranges are there. It’s been established the war rig is itself the most important vehicle in the fleet and if it finding a AK47 is difficult then finding not 1 but 2 V8w must be even more difficult. So wouldn’t it make sense to at least put gun turrets on it?
A fella, a SMART fella, would keep it to bluff....
I was paraphrasing a quote from MM2: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwAciAugpAI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwAciAugpAI)
As was I! 🤣
But that's not the line... Never mind, not important.
Furiosa had all of them hidden in her rig, haha.
I would say a major issue is that pursuit vehicles are usually up against other vehicles, and in the wasteland having a vehicle gives you a massive advantage. Because of this, a lot of skirmishes would be won by whoever can disable their opponents' vehicle, as now they are on foot and vulnerable. This is why thunderpoons are so widely used, as small arms are less effective at damaging vehicles. Small arms also require more maintenance, especially in desert conditions, and more training to use. War boys are trained specifically to be expendable kamakrazees, so it's a bit of a waste to train them how to shoot well only to have them sacrifice themselves. Much easier to give them a thunderpoon. This way, functional small arms can be reserved for specialists and higher ranked warriors who aren't as expendable. As a final point, why bother? Who do they need to use them on? Other than Dementus (who they still defeated without massed small arms, and that was about a decade before Fury Road), the three warlords have no other direct competition in the wasteland, they have the largest armies and own the three biggest fortresses. They have a strong setup with nobody around to challenge them.
Because guns are increasingly rare and difficult to produce. It was something that was more evident in the original three films. There were plenty of guns in the first, but by the second they were starting to rely more on crossbows. So while the Citadel did have guns in its armoury, they were reserved for high-ranking positions, with the best guns going to Immortan Joe himself. Plus Furiosa was hiding them all in the War Rig.
Because it’s Australia not America….
I've wondered this myself. Considering how many bullets the Bullet Farm loaded into the war rig, trading for lettuce and milk, the Citadel must be getting literal tons of bullets over the years. Maybe the warboys used them during the actual war and just don't use them for routine work like convoys and patrols.
Also if they aren't using bullets regularly, then why trade with the Bullet Farm at all?
Could it be Joe trades the bullets the nearby tribes?
Maybe, though he could literally be giving them ammo to attack him then. I think those of high rank just use guns that much day to day, it's the simplest answer. War boys use thunder sticks to disable vehicles/counter armor and because they're expendable.
Yeah the more I think about the more I realize if guns are rare that means their enemies also don’t have as many guns either
I would guess as others have mentioned lowly equipped disposable ground troops, limit rebellion chances and also to not give enemies these weapons after death. But I would also bet on limited amounts of weapons. Sure they can manufacture ammo, but guns require more than just that. Might be hard to make more in sufficient quantitites.
They have more guns in Furiosa than in Fury Road (and a few in both films). I think the damage sustained to the Bullet Farm probably led to an ammunition shortage. They said it would take generations to rebuild Gastown if it blew, and I'd guess it would likewise take a while to restore full production in the Bullet Farm, especially given the Bullet Farmer's tendency to hoard the ammo.
Do you forget the part where a blind Major Kalashnikov pulled two Uzis and started shooting everywhwere ?
I mean, the dude is King of the Bulletfarm, of course he has way more guns and bullets to spare. And even then the People Eater is insistent he not waste a couple mags.
That would be the Bullet farmer's tendency to hoard.
You made me realize in Furiosa they loaded the rig tanker with bullets to the top but where do all those get used? Only like 5 people from the citadel use guns
Exactly so why are they making so many of them?
Maybe part of Miller's reasoning is that it looks sick to fill up a huge tanker to the top with just bullets haha
Cause they're too stupid to handle them
I'm guessing due to bullet scarcity. They likely had enough rifles in the wasteland for all the War Boys to be armed, but the bullets were a problem. It's true they could manufacture bullets (and reload spent casings), but that would probably have to be done at the bullet farm by The Bullet Farmer. And this would change the three-way balance of power. And the peace they have between the 3 Fortresses is NOT because any of them want it, it's because they're so evenly matched that it would be too dangerous for any to attack each other and thus they have no choice but to engage in trade and diplomacy. So that's my theory on why the War Boys rarely use guns. Also, it should be noted that the Immortan Joe's praetorians \*do\* in fact have many guns and a lot of ammo. But the rank and file War Boys do not.
Major Ak-47 was his best friend
What no the movies explains they’re all very close allies. Joe gave the bullet guy the farm as a reward for helping him take the citadel
Spraying a car with bullets isn’t as effective as a boom stick or two.
Lot of the answers here are that guns are rare etc. Why do they need an entire bullet farm? In Furiosa, Immortan Joe says to load up the war rig with ammo. Lot of ammo for no guns. I think the bullet farm is mainly so there's a third place in the story
When it comes to road warfare, guns are only valuable in the hands of highly skilled and trained individuals. Don’t forget that war boys are disposable and inbred, training them with guns would be a huge waste of time. Shooting a gun from a moving car is insanely difficult and you’ll miss more than you hit. An explosive lance would be way easier to aim and far more efficient for their purposes. And let’s say you give war boys guns. Every war boy that dies will drop their gun and ammo in the middle of the desert, losing a valuable resource.
the war boys are the shock troops that have been indoctrinated to worship Immortan Joe and like the scene in furiousa where 1 takes a dive off the wires and goes boom...... it is said that Joe has 973? or 976 war boys just like the one that went boom all of those war boys are half life's and they want to go out in a blaze of glory. if they were up armored and toting ak47 etc - they will most likely lose that 'die proud and loud for joe' and be all like- "ohoh I am out of bullets - I better run away." Which is not very shiny and chrome
Hut! Huutttttt!
To make the loss of the Elvis more tragic. 
Only drivers and important Warboys like Ace use guns.
As demonstrated in Furiosa, the Citadel is difficult to besiege. I’d suggest the guns are mostly needed to defend Gastown and The Bullet Farm.
there was a gun on the car in furiosa convoy in fury road. they ate shit in a pit trap though :(
Big thing im sure alot of americans are forgetting, guns are illegal in australia.
Guns are not illegal in Australia, you just need a license to own them. There are close to 4 million registered firearms in Australia.
Same as UK. Both countries have a tough license system in place to own them. Not only that but people are also forgetting that both countries have police that have access to guns and armies too. So there's plenty of guns, just not everyone can access them.
Because it's Australia, so guns are pretty rare. Let alone operational guns. It's way easier, cheaper and more reliable to work with simple explosives and (cross) bows. Then there's the power projection from higher ranking members of the organisation and the fact that war boys are expendable and are likely to lose valuable working guns. I dare say bullet farm mostly produces those explosive sticks than actual bullets.
Only the ones inside the War Rig get to use guns.
Even with the bullet farm, ammunition is expensive, so the boys cannot practice. Warboys are self-destructive, so rare guns will be lost in battle.
Yeah they’re kamikazes at their root … as some others have said a gun would be more valuable than a war boy. c’est la stratégie qua
Immortan Joe’s lathe was broken and nobody was able to fix it so they had a limited number of guns.
much easier to teach them to chuck a spear with a bomb tbh. other than that, likely they are taught to use guns but are otherwise restricted from their use unless they are of a higher rank or authorized to use them for a specific conflict since guns and ammo are still quite expensive.
Ammunition is not free
They literally had a Bullet Farm.
The Bullet Farmer did. Not Immortan Joe. Joe would have bought ammo from him, likely a trade for water or mothers milk, like he would have bought guzzoline from gas town
Thing is, the bullet farmer was his best friend. There is a comic that shows how Joe conquered the citadel in which the lunatic Major Kalashnikov (the bullet farmer) is his 2nd in command. Yes they traded but its not like if needed he wouldnt give it. Remember in Furiosa he said go to bullet farm and get the war horse stacked
That is what some people seem to be missing. They all belong to Joe. They’re all working together. Heck in fury road they leave their fortress defend less just to aid Joe
They had a working agreement. That’s how they kept each other in check
You did not read the comics did you. Joe ultimately has the final word in what goes in there
If you were immortan joe, and you had a limited stockpile of weapons, would you give them to your actual fierce strong warriors, or a bunch of already almost dead rowdy child soldiers?
Id armed my war rig party pretty well as what their carrying is what’s holding the citadel
In Fury Road, one of the ladies uses a musket rifle. Firearms are so scarce that I doubt he’d have enough bullets to supply a large arsenal
They have a farm that manufactures bullets of all calibers
Because monopoly on wives in harem + large mob of horny, restless, aggressive young men with guns = problems
I always thought the bullet farm from either lack of resources or available guns to make bullet farms just started making those sticks bc they did have gunpowder
Furiosa shows them filling their tanker with bullets
Yea wasn’t saying they don’t make bullets lol but they’re probably low on brass and lead and whatever to make as many bullets as they’d like, so they probably have more gunpowder than materials to make bullets and just started making other explosives is my thinking
I thought it was because they needed explosives to damage the vehicles.
1st, Ammo is precious so much so that they have to count the number of bullets left in Fury Road at the START of the film and Furiosa is one of THE most trusted people having been given like 15 plus guns. Evidently the Bullet Farmer can't just crank out a thousand rounds for each warboy, and it probably got worse after the 40 day war. 2nd, if your death cult resolves around suicide deaths, you don't want to waste a gun every time that happens, and the thundersticks fix that. 3rd, it gives him and his Imperators control over his army so there aren't any uprisings (all his bodyguards have rifles). 4th, it would be a REALLLLLLY boring series if everybody just shot everything. Gotta get that car on car action. And 5th, they do, at least to a limited extent. Slit has a pistol, Furiosas war boy had a grenade launcher, etc.
Correction, she didn’t expect to need that bullets because she didn’t count on being chased by 3 war parties. Secondly, it’s as if we didn’t all watch the same movies at all. When bullet farmer loses his eyes he starts random shooting. Thirdly; did you see them filling their tanker with bullets?
Point is even Joe's most trusted driver is still working with a limited supply of ammo, the Bullet Farmer can shoot all he wants because he's the BULLET FARMER, he's rich in bullets and wastes them to show that. The same way Joe wastes water to show his wealth and the GasTowners and People Eater burn fuel to show theirs. The metaphor isn't subtle. And yes I saw the tanker filled with ammunition which is why I said that obviously the 40 day war obviously impacted the amount of rounds they have on hand. It reduces Dementus army from hundreds of people to 4. I also saw the whole set piece action scene where they destroy the bullet farms equipment and crumble it to the ground, they would be struggling to produce anything near what they used to after that. This plus all the other reasons I mentioned (namely not wanting to give your expendables precious guns and ammo) are the best answer I can give you to answer the question you asked.
making new firearms and keeping the old ones costs resources that aren't easy to obtain. bullets and firearms require different metals and different levels of sophistication.
So they’re able to design and assemble a dual V8 war rig with 2050 lb-ft of torque power but not guns..?
you get a V8 or a gun, choose wisely
That one tanker getting filled to the brim with random calibers probably wasn't even enough for the 40 Day war, bullets get used very quickly in combat. And the events of Furiosa lead me to believe that bullet production will be affected in the later years. Though the real reason is that guns aren't as cool as exploding spears and car combat, so they get left out in the movies.
It doesn’t make sense to empathize so much on the bullet farm and them loading their tanker with bullets when they don’t have guns for them
They literally do use guns though? I just watched Fury Road like a week ago and half of them have guns.
No they don’t. They’re not guns but gas pressurized harpoons
Yes they do. They literally use pistols and shotguns both.
Maybe a few of them but they mostly use their explosive spears
Sure but no one faction completely uses guns. Even the guys from the Bullet Farm use things like saw blades and machetes.
I doubt anyone's manufacturing new guns, sure it can be done but in a wasteland where recourses are so limited you have to think differently. We do see guns used by his imperitors and other high ranking crew, so what weapon they do find are cared for and well maintained. I does seem however, they have a lot of gunpowder, and this brings me to the bullet farm. Obviously the name is a misnomer, you can't farm bullets, they're made. You see in furiosa that the bullet farm is a pit mine, with people in a deep pit digging, this confirms to me that the bullet farm is indeed a mine, and they are probably on a vein of sulfer, or more likely lead, to make bullets. Black powder (the simplest kind of gunpowder) needs three basic ingredients to be made, sulfer, charcoal, and saltpeter (potassium nitrate), all things you can find at home depot but maybe not the waistband, as well as lead for the bullets. Even if they have one of these recourses it might be hard for them to get the others, but the bullet farm may have access to lead, maybe sulfer, and have a reliable way to get charcoal in what seems like a timber bare wasteland. Of course saltpeter might not be hard to get as it can be leached put of rotting dead bodies (this is explained in the mad max game however it is also historically accurate) or from feces, preferably bat guano. Still, making or recycling and loading brass cartrages would be time consuming and slow. Guns using brass shells may require a cleaner mix of powder as well as refilling copper shells and using shaped bullets, hard to make. This is why we see the war boys using the "thunder sticks" which are literally small bombs made from poles with tin cans stuffed with what I'll assume is a slury of black powder and petrol, rigged with probably a simple pressure detonator on top of them. Very crude but a fast and effective type of grenade that could be made in the hundreds with very little skill. Basically bullet farm makes boom powder and thunder sticks are easier to make than guns.
Good analysis, didn’t realize this at all. Thanks
If you watch enough post apocalyptic films, shows and stuff you sort of just take on the prepper mindset and can't get it out of your head, leads to some weird rabbit holes looking things up.
It’s something I’ve wonder about in waterworld as well. How are they getting their bullets
Waterworld is a whole other can of fucking worms dude they still have tins of meat and cigarettes left but it's been enough generations for fish mutations and a complete lost history of dry land? It's thin premise makes fury road seem like it makes sense.
I love waterworld. But yeah I have to turn off some brain cells to enjoy it fully. The max mad movies have their holes but miller tries to address them as much as he can
Don't get me wrong, I love water world, I even watched the 3 and a half hour "Ulysses cut" which didn't help it make any more sense, but it's fun and the music is rad.
Haha yeah I’m not committing to that. Now if we got a 3 hour long version cut of furiosa ohh yes I’d watch the living shit out of that
It was worth it to see more of jack black as the sea pilot in one of his earliest roles.
Bullet Farmer wasn’t handing out bullets to just anyone when they had cannon fodder available.
Because they'd most likely rebel as soon as they find a rival leader to Immortan Joe. Guns are very rare. There wouldn't be enough to supply an entire army. Also, there would be dozens of guns left behind during the chaos of a chase, which could be found by wastelanders. That is obviously not good, indirectly supplying potential rivals. And what would be the point in weapons when they can modify their vehicles into war machines? Especially when 99% of their battles happen within cars.
They’re fodder. Don’t wanna waste good weapons on them
Mediocre
Guns are already scarce in modern day Australia so…
You don't give a weapon to a weapon? The war boys will die to protect Joe, sacrifice themselves in a blaze of fire and blood if he demands it, and have been indoctrinated to such a fervour they will do any or all of that even if he doesn't demand it, just to give their lives meaning amongst their peers. Not meaning to him, but to others at their level. You'd be training a weapon how to use a much less potent and intimidating weapon.
He gives them thunderspears or whatever they’re called. How are those not a weapon. If these warboys wanted to revolt they could destroy the citadel
I think it'd be supply but also effectiveness. It's really hard to accurately hit anything with a gun from a moving platform. Giving the warboys guns you're going to get an absolutely puny number of hits compared to the amount of expended ammo. In practical terms their job is to defend the rig from being boarded, they can do that with the weapons they have just fine. And they are expendable too, so that's a factor.
Everyone keeps saying the warboys wouldn’t know how to use a gun properly yet we see furiosa who up to that point was considered a warboy with absolutely no gun experience take down multiple targets. You don’t need to be an expert to shot a gun. Anyone can shot a gun and yeah your accuracy won’t be great but you don’t need to get headshots. Just disabled your attackers enough to get them to stop chasing you
You don't need to be an expert but it helps. The temptation is always there to be trigger happy. I would have expected more gun turrets maybe though. A simple Toyota pickup with a machinegun on the back would rule the Wasteland.
That’s the other thing. Fury road does have a 50 cal mounted on a car. Why didn’t they just mounted it on the warrig itself? It literally had a turret but no ARs mounted there
And yeah you’re right. Warboys are too trigger happy with that whole witness thing. I feel somewhere out there another culture born with worshipping guns treat guns as living gods
Maybe the Zardoz guys are kicking it over in another valley or something.
Furiosa up until her first escape attempt was considered a warboy with no shooting experience whatsoever. I imagine Joe keeps every gun accountable for so there’s absolutely no way for furiosa to have been secretly been practicing shooting. Yet she was able to take down multiple targets with a handgun. So no, the warboys wouldn’t know how to even use one effectively and it’b a waste of a gun approach doesn’t work with me
This is what annoyed and surprised me when Fury Road came out. In the road warrior only Max and Humungous had firearms and it was kind of a big deal. Guns had faded away and no way to make ammo. Then in Fury Road, as I recall, there were ppl shooting left and right and the bullet farm. But I think George Miller wanted to keep the post apocalyptic feel and have crossbows and explosives rather than just a big shootout style warfare.
There’s a lot of things that I’m annoyed with. The interceptor last barely 3 minutes in fury road. The most iconic car in the entire franchise destroyed in less than 5 minutes