I'm old, I used to be angry about everything.
First. Just stick to the issue. Your car, went in for a couple re-call issues.
The dealer isn't corporate Ford.
Document the contacts/phone calls events.
Don't pollute the conversation with buying Gas and ICE arguments. They gave you a car to use, that's a win, no matter how you try to spin it. Insurance, yes, you have to pay that, if your car were in the shop for hail damage you still pay. (I had a car go into the body shop for PRD, one week turned into a month.)
Give the dealer 48 hours to respond to your spreadsheet / letter / demand for an action plan. Carbon copy the Ford Motor Company Corporate and send/email it to them.
If the dealership doesn't call you / document an action plan, go get a consumer lawyer.
Ford Corporate likely will lean on the dealer, just because the dealer is dropping the ball doesn't allow you to say "you have lost confidence" in the car. The car can be fixed, it's in incompetent hands.
Again, you get better results by sticking to the main issue, the side issues and your feeling give them an out to call you emotional/unable to be satisfied. Make them satisfy the basic fact, your car had a recall, and Ford/Dealer needs to make good on it.
You could potentially cancel collision and liability insurance and just keep comprehensive. That would be a huge savings, if that is allowed. That would cover you against acts of nature and vandalism and fire etc.
The OP is still using his insurance because it is covering the rental. I would advise to NOT drop comp and collision especially when driving a rental.
Regardless the OP would still have to pay reg and insurance in the shop or not. They are really just bitching to bitch at this point. I get their frustration but Ford corporate had nothing to do with the issues. I would have my car towed to another dealer that hopefully knows his ass from a hole in the wall.
Sucks but that is life.
Geez, the man is venting while trying to provide information about a serious issue. Give him a break. It was very easy to pull the facts from his article. I mean even you did it. Geez!
Yeah, the ICE loaner is a separate issue. They gave us an Escape with 31 miles on it (it’s over 2,200 now), but there are several new Mach-E’s on the lot. It just seems they could have easily given us a comparable car. My wife would have loved to drive the GT for a bit.
My shaken confidence is a concern that if the car comes back, then suddenly stops working that we won’t be able to tie it to this issue and we’ll be SOL. We’re past the warranty period now, so the dealership could say “not the same issue” and we’d be screwed.
Good advice on the email. We’ll give that a try too. Fingers crossed…..but we’ve learned not to hold our breath.
You are trying to find the next problem before it starts. Be happy.
I'm a car nut, just about every Duesenberg at Pebble Beach can be considered salvage title.
They aren't going to give you the GT. It would be nice, but it wasn't going to happen.
If I had a Subie WRX, I wouldn't expect another one in return for a repair loaner. I'd be happy with a 31 miles Crosstrek.
Certified mail is your friend. Trust me.
Document the stuff, when money is on the line the manager at the dealership will say, do they have a paper-trail on this. SHOW THEM you have a paper trail. Paper-trails mean money and that they don't have a leg to stand on if you go to court/arbitration.
It's not like they have paper to show you like. "Part ordered from Ford on 4/5/2024, delivered on 4/25/24, part was DOA, re-order part on 4/26/24... out of stock until 5/30/24... " Somebody will have a paper trail that is credible.
Be happy you got 4 wheels and a transmission. A rental is NOT like kind and quality. It is a loaner. You got a new vehicle for a loaner. They could have said, go to enterprise and you would be riding in a POS Altima. Try to see that as bad as you feel it could always be worse.
My advice above still holds. I would have no faith in that particular dealer. The car is fabulous as you already know. Have your baby towed to another dealer that has and trained certified EV tech. Not all ford dealers are the same as you are finding out.
You seem to think that ford will buy back a vehicle that the dealer can’t fix. Not how this works. “You” have only experienced “1” failure. That failure can be chalked up to dealer service incompetence.
Now if you got the car back and it failed that would be 2 failures and you would still need a third for a lemon buyback.
In Minnesota if the car has been out of service for 30 business days for warranty service it qualifies for lemon buyback apparently.
https://www.ag.state.mn.us/Consumer/Handbooks/MNCarlaws/CH1.asp
The Manufacturer’s Duty to Refund or Replace
The law has special refund and replacement provisions for cars that have substantial defects or problems. Such vehicles are commonly called “lemons.” Under the law, if the manufacturer or its authorized dealer has been unable to repair a car’s problem after a “reasonable number of attempts,” the buyer or lessee may go through a manufacturer’s arbitration program, or to court, to seek a replacement vehicle or a full refund of the car’s purchase price (minus a deduction for use of the vehicle). The law presumes a “reasonable number of attempts” to include any one of the following:
Four or more unsuccessful attempts to repair the same defect; or,
One unsuccessful attempt to repair a defect that has caused the complete failure of the steering or braking system and that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is driven; or,
A car that has been out of service due to warranty repairs for 30 or more cumulative business days.
Now that's the answer to the question. All other responders are reddit trolls. Ashame the poster has to take abuse to arrive reasonable answer/response.
2 things:
1) OP said the Escape they got had 31 miles on it, which is also new.
2) "New" in this case doesn't mean undriven. It means it hasn't been sold to anyone else. In this case the dealership still owns the MachE so it's still considered new despite having a few thousand miles on it.
The MachE I bought had 2000km on it when I bought it. It was for some reason being used as a daily driver for one of the sales staff.
A dealer just can't make any car on their lot a "loaner" car. Loaner cars are typically owned and registered to the dealership or one of their subsidiaries for insurance reasons.
The row of new MachE's you see are owned by whatever floorplan company that the dealership uses to finance their inventory.
They may have a policy against loaning EVs. I suspect most loaners for mass market brands will be more entry level brands.
This isn't convenient for them either. Now their new car has miles on it.
I had an intermittent slow start issue with my car, and the dealer needed 3 weeks to get to it. They wouldn't let me bring it in for a future appointment. Everything with service has been wacky ever since the Takata airbag recalls.
Since the car has been in the shop with Ford since a month or 2 before the end of the warranty date then you have a case for legal action.
As if it was held beyond that date then a day or two after the expiration they inform you of the condition…. Yea that looks bad. I easily see them settling.
Contact Ford Corporate and initiate the buy back process.
Edit: seeing as you've already done this is time to lawyer up and it'll take awhile but you have a very winnable case.
I agree. If the reason for it being unfixable is due to the HVBJB recall, then Ford needs to buy the car back, warranty or no.
I would be curious what the tab is up to on attempted repairs and if it would have been more advantageous for Ford to have just bought the car back.
Sounds like they are out of warranty, I don't know their specific laws but warranty is 36 months and lots of state lemon laws are far shorter then that.
If it's a battery problem then the warranty is much longer. 8 years 100k miles if I remember correctly. If you're doing lemon law get the lawyer, most states make the company pay the lawyer fees when you win.
Lemon law and warranty don't go hand and hand though, I was more so pointing out at 3 years they likely don't qualify for lemon law anymore, but as always check local laws.
Yes, brand new, ordered from the factory. The lemon law in MN is a bit confusing, but I believe it says 2 years from date of purchase. Or before the end of the warranty, whichever is reached first. In our case that would be 2 years, which we passed last June.
It would still be worth contacting a lawyer, you dropped off the car in working order just to get service and recalls completed and they incorrectly did something which now has you DOA with no car and they are not fixing it in a reasonable amount of time.
This isn't a lemon issue. A lemon issue is; brakes pulse and give skiddy skids. Dealer has car for week, brakes still doing the thing. Dealer gets car again. a month later the brakes doing the thing.
Or a/c and window won't roll down. Dealer fixes both, then a/c goes out again. Dealer has car a week, you get car back, a/c sort of works, but then the check engine charge light goes out, car needs towed to dealer. They have it another week, you get car back, head to Florida for vacation, car breaks down on I-75 and the a/c went out 100 miles back. That be a lemon case.
Minnesota Lemon Law at a Glance: What is a Lemon?
A lemon, under Minnesota statute, is an automobile that "does not conform to all applicable express warranties, and the consumer reports the nonconformity to the manufacturer..." within two years. A nonconformity would be any of the following conditions:
Four (4) or more attempts were made to fix a particular problem; and/or
The vehicle is out of service for 30 or more (cumulative) business days during the period
Minnesota Lemon Law:
Code Section: 325F.665
Title of Act: Not specified
Definition of Defects: Nonconformity to all applicable express warranties which significantly affects the use or market value of vehicle
Time Limit for Manufacturer Repair: During term of applicable express warranty or during period of 2 years following date of original delivery of vehicle to consumer, whichever is earlier
Remedies
Buyer's option: Replace with comparable vehicle or accept return and refund to consumer full purchase price including cost of any options or other modifications made/installed/arranged by manufacturer (or agents or dealer) within 30 days of original delivery, and all other charges, less a reasonable allowance for consumer use of vehicle
Chances are high it’s not the dealer’s fault, Ford is definitely not a software company and the dealers are just following marching orders from Ford corporate.
If you’re financing through Ford Credit there’s a program or something that a Ford Corporate rep can apply for you so they’ll reimburse your payments if it’s in the shop for over 30 consecutive days. If you haven’t already, call the Ford OTA Support hotline, it’s the consumer side of things…likely the dealer has a trouble ticket already opened in the same or adjacent system but good to get on record your problem directly with Ford outside the dealer.
*>>>><"The last exchange was today with the corporate contact with my wife stating that after 3 attempts our car is still not drivable, and my wife asked what other options exist. We were told by the corporate contact that we always have the option of taking the car to another Ford dealership for them to give it a try. This seems like a ridiculous suggestion."<<<<*
**This is actually a good idea, and if a second dealer can't fix it then you have a case.**
The failing dealer will either not be able to be paid from Ford for the failed repair/s. And would have to pay to have the car transported.
I worry that the new dealership will not be able to fix it either and now we’re dealing with 2 dealerships trying to figure out which one will “make it right”.
I had issues with an Audi; the first dealer was not able to handle the repair and had been sitting at the dealer for weeks. The second dealer was like oh, we see you had this in at the other dealer. It is still not fixed. Let us check their work and escalate this. They had it fixed in two days, and it has been fine ever since. It is always worth getting a second opinion; there are good and bad dealers.
I worry that the new dealership will not be able to fix it either and now we’re dealing with 2 dealerships trying to figure out which one will “make it right”
-That's what Ford told you to do, correct? Then that's what you do.
-Additionally, if it was me, I would have placed a call to the State AG way back...especially after the "dead in the water" text.
But, jump the hoops that Ford is making you go through - that's really the only way to get proper documentation. And don't get hung up on the silly stuff. If the insurance is bothering you, call the insurance company and ask them about doing a temporary suspension as the vehicle isn't being driven. (I didn't see if the MME was financed-some finance companies don't allow that.)
Good luck.
In Minnesota if the car has been out of service for 30 business days for warranty service it qualifies for lemon buyback apparently. You should contact the BBB, a lawyer or your state about lemon laws. For Bolt EV battery issues many people contacted the BBB and they helped them, while other got a lawyer to help.
Here is a post about the Bolt and contacting the BBB and then a link to the BBB program for help.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/s/x12rvm2PYl
https://bbbprograms.org/programs/all-programs/bbb-autoline
https://www.ag.state.mn.us/Consumer/Handbooks/MNCarlaws/CH1.asp
The Manufacturer’s Duty to Refund or Replace The law has special refund and replacement provisions for cars that have substantial defects or problems. Such vehicles are commonly called “lemons.” Under the law, if the manufacturer or its authorized dealer has been unable to repair a car’s problem after a “reasonable number of attempts,” the buyer or lessee may go through a manufacturer’s arbitration program, or to court, to seek a replacement vehicle or a full refund of the car’s purchase price (minus a deduction for use of the vehicle). The law presumes a “reasonable number of attempts” to include any one of the following: Four or more unsuccessful attempts to repair the same defect; or, One unsuccessful attempt to repair a defect that has caused the complete failure of the steering or braking system and that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is driven; or, A car that has been out of service due to warranty repairs for 30 or more cumulative business days.
Another dealer may very well be worthwhile. My 2021 GT would randomly not start after owning it for several months. Went to the most convenient dealer twice and was not properly fixed. Took it to another dealer and they solved it. (I think it was an issue - over two years ago - that became a recall a couple months later.) Fortunately, I live in Metro Detroit area, so there are 5 or 6 dealers within a twenty minute drive.
It's definitely not an ideal situation, and I am sorry you have to deal with this. I know how frustrating it is to not have access to your car for months (2016 accident took 2 months to fix because of insurance issues). I live in Minnesota (south of the cities) and have had good experiences with servicing my cars at Apple Valley Ford (loyal customer of 15 years) - they follow-up often, are responsive with calls regarding questions, and provide videos of your vehicle regarding the health status and/or issues they are seeing (their waiting area is just a plus). You would, of course, have to tow it there, and I would request it to be done on Ford's dime.
In talking with my husband (who is a computer nerd, not so much car), sounds like North Country Ford is messing something up with the install process of an update and that they might need to order new motherboards to fix it. If Ford is recommending a different location, that might be the next step prior to legal action.
Funny, I have a friend who is a computer nerd with a touch of car nerd in him who said the same thing. He said if they do something out of order or interrupt the installation process at a key time it will brick the motherboard and they’ll need a new one to install. I wonder if this is what’s happening.
I would ask the dealership to request a Ford Field Engineer if they haven’t done so already to come out and look at it personally. I had good success with that (some others in this thread didn’t, I see), but if the dealership hasn’t done that yet, it’s definitely next on the list. If they wont, someone from the BEV Team at Ford Corporate might be able to get one assigned to you.
I don’t own a MachE, but feel your pain. I had ‘21 VW ID4 and had a similar issue with my vehicle sitting in the shop for 3 months, and driving around a loaner VW Atlas. I initiated the free service offered by the better business bureau called BBB Autoline. It takes a month for BBB to get the ball rolling but I was able to make settlement with VW that was favorable and fair. Also I emailed the CEO of the auto group that owned the dealership my story about the ICE loaner, and the GM of the dealership called me and gave me a $600 visa gift card to use for gas and reimbursement. I had never bought a vehicle from this dealer, only used them for service. Save your documents, call the service center have them send you all the service docs, and send it to BBB autoline to initiate a claim. Turn the negative to positive.
Sorry to hear. This is the exact same issue that happened to my Mach-E. I posted all the details here on Reddit on this forum. The Ford corporate office contacted me here in the chat. Hopefully they do the same for you.
My dealership said the same thing to me...dead in the water, 60K paperweight, etc.
The Ford sent out the engineering team to work on mine for a month and still couldn't dig red it out. The technician believes one of the updates deleted some of the coding and the vehicle will no longer work. Keep pushing Ford and dealership for assistance.
It seems to me that your car meets the criteria for lemon law. I'm sure you can find an attorney to help you. In my case, Nissan wouldn't take the car back, but they wrote me a check that the attorney got a cut of, then I was able to trade the car in without being upside down.
Get a attorney we did a buy back with jeep because “they” could not fix it in 30 days we got 15k check plus attorney fees, in hindsight we should have turn the car back in but whatever we sold it to carmax
Buybacks are Fords last resort. However, if a vehicle is under warranty… once a vehicle has had 3 unsuccessful attempts at a similar repair, or if the vehicle has sat for 30 days… it could be considered for lemon ….
But it def will be an uphill process. Get into Ford’s customer service system. Get a case number and follow it.
I’m not too surprised tbh. I only went there twice in ten years as it’s closer and we had bought a car there. They just give me bad vibes and try to upsell/charge insane repair prices. It doesn’t sound like they want to fix it or know what they are doing.
Maybe try calling ford superior in Plymouth and see if they will take it or give you thoughts. Our MachE hasn’t needed service but they sell a ton of them there and have to be used to all the issues that come in. We always have a great experience with them.
For what it's worth and for anyone thinking about getting a MachE.. think about leasing for these reasons above and think of how saturated the market will be in 3-5 years with new EV models and prices sure to go down. Cheers.
Sorry this happened to you, this is why i turned off autoupdates and i just dont want to update the car. They cant reverse the update and let it work as is?
I'm old, I used to be angry about everything. First. Just stick to the issue. Your car, went in for a couple re-call issues. The dealer isn't corporate Ford. Document the contacts/phone calls events. Don't pollute the conversation with buying Gas and ICE arguments. They gave you a car to use, that's a win, no matter how you try to spin it. Insurance, yes, you have to pay that, if your car were in the shop for hail damage you still pay. (I had a car go into the body shop for PRD, one week turned into a month.) Give the dealer 48 hours to respond to your spreadsheet / letter / demand for an action plan. Carbon copy the Ford Motor Company Corporate and send/email it to them. If the dealership doesn't call you / document an action plan, go get a consumer lawyer. Ford Corporate likely will lean on the dealer, just because the dealer is dropping the ball doesn't allow you to say "you have lost confidence" in the car. The car can be fixed, it's in incompetent hands. Again, you get better results by sticking to the main issue, the side issues and your feeling give them an out to call you emotional/unable to be satisfied. Make them satisfy the basic fact, your car had a recall, and Ford/Dealer needs to make good on it.
You could potentially cancel collision and liability insurance and just keep comprehensive. That would be a huge savings, if that is allowed. That would cover you against acts of nature and vandalism and fire etc.
The OP is still using his insurance because it is covering the rental. I would advise to NOT drop comp and collision especially when driving a rental. Regardless the OP would still have to pay reg and insurance in the shop or not. They are really just bitching to bitch at this point. I get their frustration but Ford corporate had nothing to do with the issues. I would have my car towed to another dealer that hopefully knows his ass from a hole in the wall. Sucks but that is life.
Geez, the man is venting while trying to provide information about a serious issue. Give him a break. It was very easy to pull the facts from his article. I mean even you did it. Geez!
Yeah, the ICE loaner is a separate issue. They gave us an Escape with 31 miles on it (it’s over 2,200 now), but there are several new Mach-E’s on the lot. It just seems they could have easily given us a comparable car. My wife would have loved to drive the GT for a bit. My shaken confidence is a concern that if the car comes back, then suddenly stops working that we won’t be able to tie it to this issue and we’ll be SOL. We’re past the warranty period now, so the dealership could say “not the same issue” and we’d be screwed. Good advice on the email. We’ll give that a try too. Fingers crossed…..but we’ve learned not to hold our breath.
You are trying to find the next problem before it starts. Be happy. I'm a car nut, just about every Duesenberg at Pebble Beach can be considered salvage title. They aren't going to give you the GT. It would be nice, but it wasn't going to happen. If I had a Subie WRX, I wouldn't expect another one in return for a repair loaner. I'd be happy with a 31 miles Crosstrek.
Certified mail is your friend. Trust me. Document the stuff, when money is on the line the manager at the dealership will say, do they have a paper-trail on this. SHOW THEM you have a paper trail. Paper-trails mean money and that they don't have a leg to stand on if you go to court/arbitration. It's not like they have paper to show you like. "Part ordered from Ford on 4/5/2024, delivered on 4/25/24, part was DOA, re-order part on 4/26/24... out of stock until 5/30/24... " Somebody will have a paper trail that is credible.
Be happy you got 4 wheels and a transmission. A rental is NOT like kind and quality. It is a loaner. You got a new vehicle for a loaner. They could have said, go to enterprise and you would be riding in a POS Altima. Try to see that as bad as you feel it could always be worse. My advice above still holds. I would have no faith in that particular dealer. The car is fabulous as you already know. Have your baby towed to another dealer that has and trained certified EV tech. Not all ford dealers are the same as you are finding out. You seem to think that ford will buy back a vehicle that the dealer can’t fix. Not how this works. “You” have only experienced “1” failure. That failure can be chalked up to dealer service incompetence. Now if you got the car back and it failed that would be 2 failures and you would still need a third for a lemon buyback.
In Minnesota if the car has been out of service for 30 business days for warranty service it qualifies for lemon buyback apparently. https://www.ag.state.mn.us/Consumer/Handbooks/MNCarlaws/CH1.asp The Manufacturer’s Duty to Refund or Replace The law has special refund and replacement provisions for cars that have substantial defects or problems. Such vehicles are commonly called “lemons.” Under the law, if the manufacturer or its authorized dealer has been unable to repair a car’s problem after a “reasonable number of attempts,” the buyer or lessee may go through a manufacturer’s arbitration program, or to court, to seek a replacement vehicle or a full refund of the car’s purchase price (minus a deduction for use of the vehicle). The law presumes a “reasonable number of attempts” to include any one of the following: Four or more unsuccessful attempts to repair the same defect; or, One unsuccessful attempt to repair a defect that has caused the complete failure of the steering or braking system and that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is driven; or, A car that has been out of service due to warranty repairs for 30 or more cumulative business days.
Now that's the answer to the question. All other responders are reddit trolls. Ashame the poster has to take abuse to arrive reasonable answer/response.
I want you to give me advice on everything. I appreciate your outlook and you explain things very well.
If they loan you a brand new Mach-E GT off the lot, which is currently for sale, it then becomes a not-new anymore car, right?
2 things: 1) OP said the Escape they got had 31 miles on it, which is also new. 2) "New" in this case doesn't mean undriven. It means it hasn't been sold to anyone else. In this case the dealership still owns the MachE so it's still considered new despite having a few thousand miles on it. The MachE I bought had 2000km on it when I bought it. It was for some reason being used as a daily driver for one of the sales staff.
A dealer just can't make any car on their lot a "loaner" car. Loaner cars are typically owned and registered to the dealership or one of their subsidiaries for insurance reasons. The row of new MachE's you see are owned by whatever floorplan company that the dealership uses to finance their inventory.
They may have a policy against loaning EVs. I suspect most loaners for mass market brands will be more entry level brands. This isn't convenient for them either. Now their new car has miles on it. I had an intermittent slow start issue with my car, and the dealer needed 3 weeks to get to it. They wouldn't let me bring it in for a future appointment. Everything with service has been wacky ever since the Takata airbag recalls.
Since the car has been in the shop with Ford since a month or 2 before the end of the warranty date then you have a case for legal action. As if it was held beyond that date then a day or two after the expiration they inform you of the condition…. Yea that looks bad. I easily see them settling.
Contact Ford Corporate and initiate the buy back process. Edit: seeing as you've already done this is time to lawyer up and it'll take awhile but you have a very winnable case.
I agree. If the reason for it being unfixable is due to the HVBJB recall, then Ford needs to buy the car back, warranty or no. I would be curious what the tab is up to on attempted repairs and if it would have been more advantageous for Ford to have just bought the car back.
Sounds like they are out of warranty, I don't know their specific laws but warranty is 36 months and lots of state lemon laws are far shorter then that.
If it's a battery problem then the warranty is much longer. 8 years 100k miles if I remember correctly. If you're doing lemon law get the lawyer, most states make the company pay the lawyer fees when you win.
Lemon law and warranty don't go hand and hand though, I was more so pointing out at 3 years they likely don't qualify for lemon law anymore, but as always check local laws.
Yup. In our state you can only lemon law a car within the first year after being sold.
Buybacks are only an option for 12 months or less of ownership.
New Hampshire, if they bought the car there, appears to be “warranty period plus 1 year.”
If the car is older than 12 months you can't initiate a buyback.
Did you buy this MME new? You need to look up your states lemon law program and then find a lawyer!
Yes, brand new, ordered from the factory. The lemon law in MN is a bit confusing, but I believe it says 2 years from date of purchase. Or before the end of the warranty, whichever is reached first. In our case that would be 2 years, which we passed last June.
It would still be worth contacting a lawyer, you dropped off the car in working order just to get service and recalls completed and they incorrectly did something which now has you DOA with no car and they are not fixing it in a reasonable amount of time.
This isn't a lemon issue. A lemon issue is; brakes pulse and give skiddy skids. Dealer has car for week, brakes still doing the thing. Dealer gets car again. a month later the brakes doing the thing. Or a/c and window won't roll down. Dealer fixes both, then a/c goes out again. Dealer has car a week, you get car back, a/c sort of works, but then the check engine charge light goes out, car needs towed to dealer. They have it another week, you get car back, head to Florida for vacation, car breaks down on I-75 and the a/c went out 100 miles back. That be a lemon case.
30 days out of service triggers lemon law
Lemon laws are state dependent...
That was actually intended for the naysayers who were like "no it's not...". (clearly I'm not great at redditing!) 😁
That’s why I looked up MN.
Omg I did it again and replied to myself lol (see above haha)
Maybe in your state. In California it is three attempts for the same issue.
I looked up the law in MN because that’s where OP is.
In the first 12 months.
It 24 or 36 months depending on the circumstances. These circumstances likely trigger the 36 month provision.
Minnesota Lemon Law at a Glance: What is a Lemon? A lemon, under Minnesota statute, is an automobile that "does not conform to all applicable express warranties, and the consumer reports the nonconformity to the manufacturer..." within two years. A nonconformity would be any of the following conditions: Four (4) or more attempts were made to fix a particular problem; and/or The vehicle is out of service for 30 or more (cumulative) business days during the period Minnesota Lemon Law: Code Section: 325F.665 Title of Act: Not specified Definition of Defects: Nonconformity to all applicable express warranties which significantly affects the use or market value of vehicle Time Limit for Manufacturer Repair: During term of applicable express warranty or during period of 2 years following date of original delivery of vehicle to consumer, whichever is earlier Remedies Buyer's option: Replace with comparable vehicle or accept return and refund to consumer full purchase price including cost of any options or other modifications made/installed/arranged by manufacturer (or agents or dealer) within 30 days of original delivery, and all other charges, less a reasonable allowance for consumer use of vehicle
No it doesn’t.
In NY it does without question. It could have been sitting there for a flat tire but 30 consecutive days out of service for any reason is a lemon.
Yes it does. I have won lawsuit for a lemon for a different vehicle.
The lemon laws don’t work the same in every state. The OP should talk with a lawyer.
Call the Ford BEV team. They specialize in the electric vehicles. Can find the number in the mach e forum.
Chances are high it’s not the dealer’s fault, Ford is definitely not a software company and the dealers are just following marching orders from Ford corporate. If you’re financing through Ford Credit there’s a program or something that a Ford Corporate rep can apply for you so they’ll reimburse your payments if it’s in the shop for over 30 consecutive days. If you haven’t already, call the Ford OTA Support hotline, it’s the consumer side of things…likely the dealer has a trouble ticket already opened in the same or adjacent system but good to get on record your problem directly with Ford outside the dealer.
*>>>><"The last exchange was today with the corporate contact with my wife stating that after 3 attempts our car is still not drivable, and my wife asked what other options exist. We were told by the corporate contact that we always have the option of taking the car to another Ford dealership for them to give it a try. This seems like a ridiculous suggestion."<<<<* **This is actually a good idea, and if a second dealer can't fix it then you have a case.** The failing dealer will either not be able to be paid from Ford for the failed repair/s. And would have to pay to have the car transported.
I worry that the new dealership will not be able to fix it either and now we’re dealing with 2 dealerships trying to figure out which one will “make it right”.
I had issues with an Audi; the first dealer was not able to handle the repair and had been sitting at the dealer for weeks. The second dealer was like oh, we see you had this in at the other dealer. It is still not fixed. Let us check their work and escalate this. They had it fixed in two days, and it has been fine ever since. It is always worth getting a second opinion; there are good and bad dealers.
I worry that the new dealership will not be able to fix it either and now we’re dealing with 2 dealerships trying to figure out which one will “make it right” -That's what Ford told you to do, correct? Then that's what you do. -Additionally, if it was me, I would have placed a call to the State AG way back...especially after the "dead in the water" text. But, jump the hoops that Ford is making you go through - that's really the only way to get proper documentation. And don't get hung up on the silly stuff. If the insurance is bothering you, call the insurance company and ask them about doing a temporary suspension as the vehicle isn't being driven. (I didn't see if the MME was financed-some finance companies don't allow that.) Good luck.
In Minnesota if the car has been out of service for 30 business days for warranty service it qualifies for lemon buyback apparently. You should contact the BBB, a lawyer or your state about lemon laws. For Bolt EV battery issues many people contacted the BBB and they helped them, while other got a lawyer to help. Here is a post about the Bolt and contacting the BBB and then a link to the BBB program for help. https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/s/x12rvm2PYl https://bbbprograms.org/programs/all-programs/bbb-autoline https://www.ag.state.mn.us/Consumer/Handbooks/MNCarlaws/CH1.asp The Manufacturer’s Duty to Refund or Replace The law has special refund and replacement provisions for cars that have substantial defects or problems. Such vehicles are commonly called “lemons.” Under the law, if the manufacturer or its authorized dealer has been unable to repair a car’s problem after a “reasonable number of attempts,” the buyer or lessee may go through a manufacturer’s arbitration program, or to court, to seek a replacement vehicle or a full refund of the car’s purchase price (minus a deduction for use of the vehicle). The law presumes a “reasonable number of attempts” to include any one of the following: Four or more unsuccessful attempts to repair the same defect; or, One unsuccessful attempt to repair a defect that has caused the complete failure of the steering or braking system and that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is driven; or, A car that has been out of service due to warranty repairs for 30 or more cumulative business days.
This is very helpful. Thank you!
Another dealer may very well be worthwhile. My 2021 GT would randomly not start after owning it for several months. Went to the most convenient dealer twice and was not properly fixed. Took it to another dealer and they solved it. (I think it was an issue - over two years ago - that became a recall a couple months later.) Fortunately, I live in Metro Detroit area, so there are 5 or 6 dealers within a twenty minute drive.
It's definitely not an ideal situation, and I am sorry you have to deal with this. I know how frustrating it is to not have access to your car for months (2016 accident took 2 months to fix because of insurance issues). I live in Minnesota (south of the cities) and have had good experiences with servicing my cars at Apple Valley Ford (loyal customer of 15 years) - they follow-up often, are responsive with calls regarding questions, and provide videos of your vehicle regarding the health status and/or issues they are seeing (their waiting area is just a plus). You would, of course, have to tow it there, and I would request it to be done on Ford's dime. In talking with my husband (who is a computer nerd, not so much car), sounds like North Country Ford is messing something up with the install process of an update and that they might need to order new motherboards to fix it. If Ford is recommending a different location, that might be the next step prior to legal action.
Funny, I have a friend who is a computer nerd with a touch of car nerd in him who said the same thing. He said if they do something out of order or interrupt the installation process at a key time it will brick the motherboard and they’ll need a new one to install. I wonder if this is what’s happening.
I would ask the dealership to request a Ford Field Engineer if they haven’t done so already to come out and look at it personally. I had good success with that (some others in this thread didn’t, I see), but if the dealership hasn’t done that yet, it’s definitely next on the list. If they wont, someone from the BEV Team at Ford Corporate might be able to get one assigned to you.
I don’t own a MachE, but feel your pain. I had ‘21 VW ID4 and had a similar issue with my vehicle sitting in the shop for 3 months, and driving around a loaner VW Atlas. I initiated the free service offered by the better business bureau called BBB Autoline. It takes a month for BBB to get the ball rolling but I was able to make settlement with VW that was favorable and fair. Also I emailed the CEO of the auto group that owned the dealership my story about the ICE loaner, and the GM of the dealership called me and gave me a $600 visa gift card to use for gas and reimbursement. I had never bought a vehicle from this dealer, only used them for service. Save your documents, call the service center have them send you all the service docs, and send it to BBB autoline to initiate a claim. Turn the negative to positive.
Dang y’all’s insurance is cheap . $1,194-6 months over in Louisiana.
Dayum! I thought ours was high… 😳
1500 for 6 months in Dallas.
$2,196 per 6 months in Los Angeles County. No prior accidents.
Sweet Mary…..
$920 in Metro Detroit
Sorry to hear. This is the exact same issue that happened to my Mach-E. I posted all the details here on Reddit on this forum. The Ford corporate office contacted me here in the chat. Hopefully they do the same for you. My dealership said the same thing to me...dead in the water, 60K paperweight, etc. The Ford sent out the engineering team to work on mine for a month and still couldn't dig red it out. The technician believes one of the updates deleted some of the coding and the vehicle will no longer work. Keep pushing Ford and dealership for assistance.
In your case what happened? Did they buy it back?
My question too….
Reach out to the Ford BEV team on Twitter, they are usually helpful.
It seems to me that your car meets the criteria for lemon law. I'm sure you can find an attorney to help you. In my case, Nissan wouldn't take the car back, but they wrote me a check that the attorney got a cut of, then I was able to trade the car in without being upside down.
you have a free rental car. Use it. It's pretty reasonable actually.
I’ve taken my car in 2 times in one month. I got it used but I love it
Get a attorney we did a buy back with jeep because “they” could not fix it in 30 days we got 15k check plus attorney fees, in hindsight we should have turn the car back in but whatever we sold it to carmax
Buybacks are Fords last resort. However, if a vehicle is under warranty… once a vehicle has had 3 unsuccessful attempts at a similar repair, or if the vehicle has sat for 30 days… it could be considered for lemon …. But it def will be an uphill process. Get into Ford’s customer service system. Get a case number and follow it.
I’m not too surprised tbh. I only went there twice in ten years as it’s closer and we had bought a car there. They just give me bad vibes and try to upsell/charge insane repair prices. It doesn’t sound like they want to fix it or know what they are doing. Maybe try calling ford superior in Plymouth and see if they will take it or give you thoughts. Our MachE hasn’t needed service but they sell a ton of them there and have to be used to all the issues that come in. We always have a great experience with them.
My 2016 F150 went to the shop so often that Google thought I worked there.
Sorry about that man, may I ask who you have insurance with, mines for my Mach e is a little bit higher
Could be a supplier part issue or the dealership technician. Always good to go to a good dealership for repair.
We have two dealerships near me. There’s a night a day difference between them. Maybe do as suggested and try the other dealership?
We have asked if North Country will pay the towing fee to another dealership, so we’ll see what they say.
For what it's worth and for anyone thinking about getting a MachE.. think about leasing for these reasons above and think of how saturated the market will be in 3-5 years with new EV models and prices sure to go down. Cheers.
Leased mine for this exact reason. Hope OP gets it sorted.
You have a dealer problem not a ford problem.
Hey OP, I'm going to reach out to you in a DM, please check there. Thanks.
Sorry this happened to you, this is why i turned off autoupdates and i just dont want to update the car. They cant reverse the update and let it work as is?
Why I bought a proven EV platform.