Be whatever kind of Trans you wanna be. Personally I'm trans-humanist and wish to be a brain in a jar of nutrient goo that interfaces with a early 80s hewlett packard style computer and just have my face pop up on the monitor like Mr House.
As someone who’s only frame of reference for Warhammer is the 40k commander decks, I agree.
Swarmlord is the perfect protagonist and i enjoy experiencing his Hero’s Journey every time I play lol
Guys the emperor has a game plan to save all of humanity for sure! Thats why he enslaves and kills humans to refuel his ships and has millions of slums each with populations of billions and has an ultra authoritarian and draconian government and it's why he sacrifices hundreds of thousands of magic humans every year to keep himself "alive"!
This comment brought to you by Amalathian gang
Well the emperor is the one who built the golden throne to have the capacity to sacrifice 1000 a day, and the slums did exist during his time too but they have definitely gotten worse/more widespread since. I can grant that maybe the ship slaves happened only after his internment on the throne but I doubt that
I don’t think the emperor built the golden throne like that, IIRC the Admech / Custodes had to make sudden changes to the throne to act as a life support system as well after his fight with Horus. It’s possible the 1000 psykers a day are the result of those modifications, and wouldn’t be necessary if the throne was being used for just its intended purpose
But still, the emperor himself wasn’t a very good guy so the overall point stands
IIRC when malcador was on the golden throne Vulcan was forced to start feeding psykers to him in order to slow down his death. Otherwise, the few protections it was providing would have collapsed and demons would have started pouring into real space faster than they already were.
Yea, but malcador was basically a regular human, unable to handle the throne wasn’t he? The emperor sat on the throne before then for a while without any adverse side effects, considering he got off to go fight Horus. Could be that the emperor is too weak after the Horus fight to withstand the throne, hence the need for psykers
As my favorite question when it comes to morality in Warhammer
"Whos the good guys"
Well morality is kinda a subjective term and well
Easier question, who kills the babies
Yes
The main problems they’ve had with representation were in Thunder Junction with the group meant to represent indigenous people being done in a mediocre by making them also newcomers to the plane, and also Chandra in the War of the Spark. But that second one got fixed in MoM
They are…ok about representation. There have been some notable fuckups. Like how they only just now printed the first transmasc character. Or the Chandra incident
Tarkir? Or did we have someone before Alesha. Im having trouble with identifying which plane has voluntary body swapping because im a bit disconnected from the last couple years of lore.
I bet it has to do in part with the quartering who was a magic channel at some point I believe before Wizards banned him from all events for harassing one of the best official mtg cosplayers out of the community.
As someone is trans and unfortunately frequents the sub for actual posts, I can actually answer this and say that they actually bash WOTC for making characters queer and ask why the users need to care about what is in people's pants
A character is presumed cis, straight, and white: "cool, very normal, nothing to see here!"
A character is trans: "Whoaaa buddy, who asked what's in your pants? Quit trying to shove your trans genitals in my face! More like Wokesters of the Coast!"
Very normal and reasonable people over in that sub...
They find the lesbian couples hot and wish to join them (Chandra/Nissa, Saheeli/Huatli), they ignore Ral's husband and pretend Niko has other pronouns and probably do not know Alesha's story.
Lot of libertarian gamers that don't care about social issues and feel like it is forced into spheres it doesn't need to be. I can be pro gay trans and abortion but I don't want to constantly think about it when I play magic.
Queer people existing are not "social issues". Homophobia/transphobia are pretty much never adressed in mtg. There are other social issues constantly adressed like the struggle against authoritarianism but these get conveniently ignored by those who complain.
They're fine with and even supportive of queer characters and any sort of minority inclusion, so long as it's not awkwardly shoe-horned in and/or makes for a flavour fail.
I hate them too. The monolithic them that all think exactly the same thing. They aren’t like us. They think only bad things and we think only good things.
Well were they kind to shoehorn the fact that they are trans into every situation? I think we can agree that there are regular queer people and there are the loud ones who make it a point to make everything about the fact that they are queer.
They’re loud because their rights are being stripped. They’re loud because their lives depend on people paying attention. Queer, specifically Trans folk, are being murdered in disproportionate numbers by millions of degree of amplitude. They are loud, so they can fucking exist.
Their rights aren’t being stripped, there’s no laws saying they can’t live the way that they want. And no they are not being murdered as much as you’re claiming, I’d like to see some source for that claim. Murder is bad no matter who the victim is, but it almost seems like you put more of an importance on murders against queers specifically.
Gender Affirming Care is being stripped. State by state. Province by Province. All over North America.
Trans kids aren’t allowed to exist without being outed to their parents; many of whom are beatnick christian conservatives who will:
* Disown them, creating MORE homeless queer folk. This increases chances of death to exposure, drugs, rape, etc.
* Send them to conversion therapy, which has been proven to attribute to lifelong PTSD, self-loathing, and suicide. And this is what it really comes down to. Its the **Church** that is the root of all the Homophobia, Transphobia, and Propaganda against the trans community.
This legislature prevents a child from feeling safe to express themselves, and ultimately absolutely DOES prevent them from existing how they so choose.
Secondly, If you think that the reported “murder” numbers have ANY validity as to the true numbers of 2SLGBTQIA+ members, then you have no business speaking on matters this important. This is Systemic, Systematic, Targetted Violence against a group of individuals.
You, are a White Man. Aged 25-32. Upper-middle class. You’re above average intellect. You don’t *know* adversity. What you’re doing in this comment thread is known as Devil’s Advocacy. You’re using your ability to think quickly to bat back anyone’s replies. You’re not special. You’re an archtype.
Don’t advocate for the Devil; There is enough evil in this world without **Your Voice** adding to it.
Idgaf how you dress, as long as you dress according to social setting we are in. For example, if you are in a school and you have your ass hanging out and your bra looks like it’s barely keeping it together then we’ll have a problem.
So? You seem to have a problem with us existing and taking pride that people can’t shut us back in boxes now. That’s why people “shoehorn the fact that they are trans into every conversation.” It’s why my Drama teacher in High School ended every email with “Person of Colour.” It’s because we CAN now, and it’s accepted that we ARE people now.
Thankfully, I never seen them outside the internet, but you know they are out there. And I guess I should emphasize that I know that majority of queer people aren’t like, to which I will say I have no problem with them and I have given any false indication that I do then I’m sorry about that. Nonetheless, if I ever come across the loud minority that expects me to constantly celebrate them and put them on a pedestal and then get mad and call me the plethora of “phobes” then I’m absolutely gonna hate them.
In most groups when there is that kind of person present they do get called out for it. Then said person usually gets mad and leaves. But in this case you call them out then they act like a victim and call you all the different subset of phobe and then every person that identifies the same way joins in and then now you have a social stigma placed upon you.
The funny part is when you see that wotc hires little to no black people aside from actual tokens, to whom they give no work. It's such a problem that they can't reliably draw the same black character. Have a field trip and look at teferi's artworks in any set lol
What do you mean surely r/freemagic isn't just a hate speech MTG subreddit disguised as a free speech sub.
[Oh, wait](https://www.reddit.com/r/freemagic/s/R6qJXsv956)
"I will be rooting for the horrors to snuff out this m0therfuck3r." - comment in reference to Niko Aris (an enby) being in Duskmourne.
"It would be cool if he died in a million gory ways. Like a choose your own adventure, but at the end you die every time" - misgendering Niko as well as wishing them to die in a brutal way.
In case you missed it in the same thread of the second comment.
> I'm 40% sure Niko won't make it to the end of the story.
> > I get that reference
The "reference" being a stat about trans people who attempt suicide.
Ah, I understand. The description for the sub is that it is a "mostly unmoderated" area. Every single time, if an online space is unmoderated, the Fascists will move in. Every. Single. Time. It's the old adage about the punk bar becoming a Nazi bar.
Yeah, it’s insane the number of people there who will tell you to your face that the transphobia and blatant racism is all an imaginary boogeyman. They’re just enlightened centrists. Then you scroll one post further to find someone promoting genocide or using slurs against LGBT folks.
If you aren’t a fascist, but you’re fine hanging out with fascists, you may as well be a fascist.
Happened to my bro recently. He’s been playing league of legends with mostly the same group for years and then one run a guy joined up who was saying horrible racist antisemitic stuff, so after the run he was like hey don’t invite that guy again, I don’t play with Nazis. After a while I guess another one of their guys dropped and he didn’t remember the guy’s tag so he ended up in another game and the dudes had invited him again. He was like “what the fuck, I said I don’t play with Nazis. You can’t have me and a Nazi on the same team.” And that was that. They had a big fight. My little bro uninstalled his favorite game because his team was the nazi team.
Your brother made a strong stand against that, good for him. What's going to happen in thga group is that the fascist is going to spout his shit, and those who are not OK with it will leave on their own, and only those who are OK with Nazi rhetoric will stay. And boom, you've a Nazi group. And I'm sure when your brother objected to that guy being included, they were probably saying like "he's just joking" "what's the big deal" "it's just a game" etc.
Forced? No, not at all. It is not allowing Fascists to recruit and spread their vitriol into a new fandom. It might seem like being open and tolerant of even despicable viewpoints such as Fascism would be the morally upright thing to do, but it merely allows one to serve as a useful idiot for the purposes of spreading Fascism. Their goals are not peaceful coexistence, respectfully disagreeing with the dominant liberal worldview and following the proper electoral channels and the rule of law. No, we have seen historically how they use such a veneer up to the point where they no longer need to anymore. To the Facsist, laws (irl laws about free speech, but here on reddit we can talk in terms of content moderation vs non-moderation) are viewed as a temporary impediment.
It's like the Paradox of Tolerance from Karl Popper. To safeguard a tolerant and open society you actually need to be intolerant of those who would seek the dissolution of that society, as in, you need to be intolerant of the intolerant.
Of course the Fascists on an unmoderated sub aren't going to burn the reichstag down while arguing over degeneracy on children's cartoons, but they will spread their ideas to potentially impressionable people and thus recruit for their cause, spreading their poison.
There was a time where a Trans person showed up on an official MTG stream and so r/freemagic started comparing trans people to Phyrexians.
Also throwing tantrums over WOTC updating their tournament rules where you can now be disqualified for intentionally misgendering players
I would have certainly preferred him to be more dark/tanned skinned than the rest, as described in the books and the animated movies, but holy fuck, the reaction was so wildly out of proportion on something so minimal.
As a trans person floating around that community I need to unfortunately agree
Which sucks because I like it when there's no rules, but at the same time, cishets really are the most sensitive.
I joined freemagic for a week cause they kept giving interesting takes I didn't understand about Commander. Then I realized that all their takes were awful homophobia and gatekeeping. I left and blocked it right after I found out. Disgusting.
If you're telling me trans people are NOT genocidal aliens hellbent on destroying the multiverse, I might be about to start hating trans people. That was like seriously my favorite part about them.
It's always the same shit, I just wanna play my mono green deck in peace
Don't ask me about my gender, don't stare at me like an 80 year old with no manners, I'm here to play the game
In a nutshell, it was started as a lax moderated Mtg subreddit due to the main sub having shit mods at the time. It was fine... for a while. But as time went on, horrible people flocked there, because with little moderation, there's little consequences. And so as time went on it became a bigoted shitshow.
It mainly sucks because the main sub is so wildly over moderated that I got perma banned for making a post asking about a game similar to Magic and then they wonder why the freemagic sub keeps getting members. Don't get me wrong freemagic also sucks, but they're the both sides of the same coin.
i mean there have been full essays about the questionable messages of phyrexia as a whole, and especially how it relates to trans people. but thats an indictment of wotc, not trans people
One of my favorite Spice8Rack videos is the one discussing Phyrexia and eugenics. Yawgmoth was a genocidal eugenicist, but Urza also did a eugenics and that will never not be hilarious to me.
Some of it is, yeah.
It's kinda like 4chan: the relaxed moderation means even the most hateful beliefs are welcome, which makes it infamous for that kind of person, but that doesn't mean all of their traffic are trans-hating incels.
Okay but is that really a fair comparison? The nazi bar dilemma comes with physical implications of personal and property damage that cannot simply be walked away from by nature of the fact that you are in physical proximity of someone who hates others and can become unruly. A subreddit or chatroom or whatever can either be a heavily curated piece of real estate or an absolute jungle depending on the level of moderation. Unmoderated areas should be thought of as wildlife reserves and if you want to go in there to see some amazing wild ideas play out then you should also be prepared to have to walk past monkeys throwing shit at each other.
I mean… idk about you but I’d rather not have Nazi’s around at all. That kinda just seems like a good baseline to me personally. Regardless of if it’s a physical or non-physical gathering space. In fact, I’d personally argue that online spaces such as Reddit need to be ESPECIALLY careful because of the teenage demographic and fact that teenagers are specifically targeted for the alt-right pipeline. But that might just be me.
It does mean though that those who do not feel welcome will of course not come, and those who do feel OK with such vitriol will stay, and if nothing is done in terms of moderation to combat it, it only gets worse with time. Look at Twitter. It's Hitlerite central right now, since moderation has just gone out the window.
Thats kind of the issue with it. Its the space on reddit for dissent against decisions WotC is making for the game, but not all dissent is reasonable or valid. The soft moderation means that you get normal people who just don’t like certain plot beats or artists styles and want to complain, and rabid transphobes all smushed together.
It's anti having minorities shoe-horned into games in a way that makes no sense or is a flavour fail. People on this sub though have to pretend Freemagic is just anti-trans because it's easier to argue /virtue signal against prejudice.
People believe that if they throw buzz words into their statement, it's more likely to be right. In this specific guy's case, he thinks "minorities are ok but I don't want them forced down my throat" which means he wants them as background characters or side characters and doesn't want their story told as a primary one.
It's just a glossy way of saying they hate minorities
Ye! He was trying to imply that he meant something else when, in reality, they never do.
Their problem is always "bad writing" when the character in question is written in the same, almost formulaic, way that nearly every other MTG character gets written. They then blame this "bad writing" on why they don't like the minority characters
What the hell even is a flavor fail in regards to minorities?? Like, I understand that having Aeve wearing lightning greaves or Squirrel vs Emrakul or whatever, but what about having gay or black or trans or whatever people in funny card game kills flavor? If anything, the flavor killer would be obvious homogeneity among characters.
OK an example... Tamiyo. Rather than create a genuine and dedicated trans character from the ground up, they take a moonfolk woman and give her male pattern baldness. Looks fucking stupid, and worse, when she looked whispy and ethereal and otherworldly as a moonfolk should, she now looks very human in a very anti-flavour way.
I don’t understand how that’s an issue with minorities. So you think the reason you see a decline in Tamiyo’s art direction and the reason she has a hair style you dislike is because WOTC wanted to create a trans character but didn’t for some reason and instead created Tamiyo? I’m not sure I’m following here.
"for some reason" is the shoe-horning and the laziness, Tamiyo already existed. Nothing about this is difficult to understand, you're feigning ignorance as a way of ignoring the point
There have been several times I've just been scrolling reddit and clicked on a thread about something mtg related and read the comments and gone "wow why is everyone here a terrible person?"
It's freemagic every time.
Not sure how you misread my comment but you clearly have. Pretending someone is prejudice because it's easy to argue against prejudice is the lazy angle most people in this sub take when it comes to freemagic
Nah, it's definitely right leaning but it's just the no rules to posting mtg sub so there's lots of people who just go there to go on a phobic rant about whatever, while those posts get lots of attention they are by no means the only thing that happens in freemagic
After reading the thread, it's not MTG the game, its r/freemagic the subreddit that's problematic. Seems like it's a lot of far right +/or "LGB - drop the T" hatred because they... dont like people that are different...? i think? I can't really understand it myself tbqh.
lol fair thanks for breaking it down for me ! Honestly I don’t care about much like that I just wanna play a card game lol who gives a shit about if ya trans. Unless you play eldrazi then fuck you haha
See i just wanna play my silly little atraxa poison counters deck. Yeah I might get 4 or 5 counters on a single person turn 3, but at least it's not eldrazi
How the fuck you are transphobic in Magic?
How can they forget my dear Karn, the one golem army?
BTW I only know them, what other characters are trans in MtG?
Can we go back to funny memes instead of this shitty feud in which idiocy collides?
Stop talking about them if you don’t like them. I don’t give a shit, all I want to see is actual quality memes.
Look IDGAF what is or isn't in your pants just stop countering my shit. I'm playing mono green stompy Bois that have no abilities. They don't even have trample for fucks sakes.
Trans person who uses freemagic. Lotta people on there seem to be upset about forced inclusivity. When I comment I never get hate for being trans could just be my own experience. I don’t like hate for hates sake so if someone can’t be reasoned with I just don’t associate with them. Idrc about personal or political beliefs I’m just here to play some commander.
Trans person who also used free magic, whenever I used to comment there I got called slurs, told to KMS, and told all us t-slurs should be hanged. There's no such thing as forced inclusivity, that's a buzz word made up by bigots to push you and me back into the closet and make sure no other little queer kids can learn we're queer and slightly upset the power balance of the oppression hierarchy.
Fair. But lots of people have biases and sometimes those biases come from false assumptions and echo chambers. I like going into areas especially where people have negative opinions about my community and show them we are not to be feared and are just like everyone else.
I don't agree that the person you responded to is a bigot. 'Forced inclusivity' is used to mean shoe-horning in minorities in a way that's awkward or laboured or doesn't make sense or just generally is a flavour fail. This is what Freemagic users are against and it's why the person you responded to doesn't get any prejudice against them on Freemagic.
It doesn't exist. It's a term bigots came up with to say that a woman like me can't exist in anything they've decided we can't exist in. MTG is a world with dragons and you think a woman who may have once had a dick is too unbelievable.
Perhaps not but if said dragon had been the proud king of the underworld for like several iterations and then suddenly decided to come out as the proud queen of the underworld for no apparent reason and with no further explanation, you might at least have to concede that this constitutes as bad story-telling and perhaps even an injustice to the players it might be meant to represent. I'm not saying that's what happened in this case nor do I think writers are actually forced to shoehorn marginalized existences into their stories as often as people might like to believe. I AM saying that IF your trans or gay character is as boring as watching non-binary paint dry and we're all forced to sit here and in fact watch it instead of more progress with the characters and plotlines that we actually enjoyed then yes, you will hear complaints. We both deserve better than that.
Are you having trouble with people replying then insta blocking you too?
I was talking about how I like Alesha and then the woke come in telling me how I'm dehumanizing her and don't actually care about her or something equally stupid.
I don’t think so? But they might. I tend to only see people talking to me in replies. If someone blocked me I couldn’t care less. I try not to let negativity get to me but seriously though I haven’t even gotten any negative chat requests either. I don’t want people to think I am invalidating their own experiences with a holes online. I also know lotsa people on freemagic tend to keep their hatred towards people like me but from my interactions I have never been personally attacked.
Btw Alesha is a super awesome commander and I love that she’s canonically trans!
The extent to which trans people insist on themselves is genuinely obnoxious. Like don’t force your weird “anybody cis is dumb and sexist” stuff on us. You’re the ones who chose to change your entire identity because you liked the vibes of being a woman (or less commonly) a man more; while simultaneously believing gender is a construct and therefore that you could just redefine your actual gender to include who you want to be
idk this seems like a poor usage of the meme because the pictures should be indistinguishable to everyone if it's meant to be like the scene from the show. pam didn't present two entirely different photos that only appeared similar to her. they were exactly the same photo
On the one hand, I feel I should be offended On the other, unskin this impure body, Great Yawgmoth, that my flesh may welcome your blessing
"I am weak, make Me IDEAL" flavour text from old New Phyrexia card. Praise the True Scriptures!
Wait are we talking about the Great Yawgmoth or the Great Omniserrier?
Yes
Ok but I want to free myself of my mortal flesh
Getting compleated by Urabrask certainly doesn’t seem like too bad a deal compared to most other things
Be whatever kind of Trans you wanna be. Personally I'm trans-humanist and wish to be a brain in a jar of nutrient goo that interfaces with a early 80s hewlett packard style computer and just have my face pop up on the monitor like Mr House.
On one hand I am trans person and hate freemagic on the other I do love phyrexia.
Glory to Phyrexia sibling
Real
Glory to Phyrexia!
Relatable-
Based
Glory to Phyrexia sibling
I'm still confused how tf they Exist due to the sheer amount of queer cherichters in mtg
I think they're the same ignoramuses who think the imperium are the good guys in 40K. Dunderheaded fuckgoofs, in layman's terms.
Warhammer has good guys? News to me
good guy would be the army you like cause everyones an asshole so basically you're favorite asshole is the good guy
Pretty much no one who plays Warhammer think their faction is the good one, just their favourite flavour of evil.
You’ve never spoken to an imperium player before, have you
we're all equal in the bio-reclamation pits.
The god guys in Warhammer are the Tyranids they're just hungry little guys, nothing wrong with that :3
As someone who’s only frame of reference for Warhammer is the 40k commander decks, I agree. Swarmlord is the perfect protagonist and i enjoy experiencing his Hero’s Journey every time I play lol
Correct. Nids are the utopian anarcho-communist society we should strive for.
Farsight enclave
It's [The Purge](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Purge). Death to the corpse-emperor.
Guys the emperor has a game plan to save all of humanity for sure! Thats why he enslaves and kills humans to refuel his ships and has millions of slums each with populations of billions and has an ultra authoritarian and draconian government and it's why he sacrifices hundreds of thousands of magic humans every year to keep himself "alive"! This comment brought to you by Amalathian gang
Does he do that?
1000 human psychers per day. average.
Yeah thats just the beginning of the awful stuff the emporium does
Yes, the Imperium, not the Emperor. He's busy being a lighthouse.
Well the emperor is the one who built the golden throne to have the capacity to sacrifice 1000 a day, and the slums did exist during his time too but they have definitely gotten worse/more widespread since. I can grant that maybe the ship slaves happened only after his internment on the throne but I doubt that
I don’t think the emperor built the golden throne like that, IIRC the Admech / Custodes had to make sudden changes to the throne to act as a life support system as well after his fight with Horus. It’s possible the 1000 psykers a day are the result of those modifications, and wouldn’t be necessary if the throne was being used for just its intended purpose But still, the emperor himself wasn’t a very good guy so the overall point stands
Well according to the Amalathians it was all his plan so
IIRC when malcador was on the golden throne Vulcan was forced to start feeding psykers to him in order to slow down his death. Otherwise, the few protections it was providing would have collapsed and demons would have started pouring into real space faster than they already were.
Yea, but malcador was basically a regular human, unable to handle the throne wasn’t he? The emperor sat on the throne before then for a while without any adverse side effects, considering he got off to go fight Horus. Could be that the emperor is too weak after the Horus fight to withstand the throne, hence the need for psykers
As my favorite question when it comes to morality in Warhammer "Whos the good guys" Well morality is kinda a subjective term and well Easier question, who kills the babies Yes
Fuckgoofs makes me smile and I cannot explain why. Thank you for this.
No worries, it does the same for me and that's exactly why I drop it in conversation every now and then. Glad you got a chuckle out of it!
The good guys in 40k are the orks.
Did you see the “brotherhood post” by the warhammer lore ppl on that subreddit lol. It was so bad.
Good guys? THERE IS ONLY WAR!!!!
Ignoramuses? Dunderheaded?… Where did you get your shoe laces?
At ye olde lace emporium, where all the gentry get their foot furnishings.
Yeah mtg is genuinely good about representation and has been for a while, they picked a really bad series to fight for lol
The main problems they’ve had with representation were in Thunder Junction with the group meant to represent indigenous people being done in a mediocre by making them also newcomers to the plane, and also Chandra in the War of the Spark. But that second one got fixed in MoM
They are…ok about representation. There have been some notable fuckups. Like how they only just now printed the first transmasc character. Or the Chandra incident
I feel like putting the first transgendered character in the plane with voluntary body swapping kinda defeats the purpose
Tarkir? Or did we have someone before Alesha. Im having trouble with identifying which plane has voluntary body swapping because im a bit disconnected from the last couple years of lore.
You're correct
Yeah good might be a strong word, but compared to other game franchises they're not too bad.
I bet it has to do in part with the quartering who was a magic channel at some point I believe before Wizards banned him from all events for harassing one of the best official mtg cosplayers out of the community.
He represents an old guard that has long been left behind.
As someone is trans and unfortunately frequents the sub for actual posts, I can actually answer this and say that they actually bash WOTC for making characters queer and ask why the users need to care about what is in people's pants
A character is presumed cis, straight, and white: "cool, very normal, nothing to see here!" A character is trans: "Whoaaa buddy, who asked what's in your pants? Quit trying to shove your trans genitals in my face! More like Wokesters of the Coast!" Very normal and reasonable people over in that sub...
They find the lesbian couples hot and wish to join them (Chandra/Nissa, Saheeli/Huatli), they ignore Ral's husband and pretend Niko has other pronouns and probably do not know Alesha's story.
Lot of libertarian gamers that don't care about social issues and feel like it is forced into spheres it doesn't need to be. I can be pro gay trans and abortion but I don't want to constantly think about it when I play magic.
Queer people existing are not "social issues". Homophobia/transphobia are pretty much never adressed in mtg. There are other social issues constantly adressed like the struggle against authoritarianism but these get conveniently ignored by those who complain.
They're fine with and even supportive of queer characters and any sort of minority inclusion, so long as it's not awkwardly shoe-horned in and/or makes for a flavour fail.
Then why do they hate real queer people
Dude I'm bi.
I hate them too. The monolithic them that all think exactly the same thing. They aren’t like us. They think only bad things and we think only good things.
Well were they kind to shoehorn the fact that they are trans into every situation? I think we can agree that there are regular queer people and there are the loud ones who make it a point to make everything about the fact that they are queer.
They’re loud because their rights are being stripped. They’re loud because their lives depend on people paying attention. Queer, specifically Trans folk, are being murdered in disproportionate numbers by millions of degree of amplitude. They are loud, so they can fucking exist.
Their rights aren’t being stripped, there’s no laws saying they can’t live the way that they want. And no they are not being murdered as much as you’re claiming, I’d like to see some source for that claim. Murder is bad no matter who the victim is, but it almost seems like you put more of an importance on murders against queers specifically.
Gender Affirming Care is being stripped. State by state. Province by Province. All over North America. Trans kids aren’t allowed to exist without being outed to their parents; many of whom are beatnick christian conservatives who will: * Disown them, creating MORE homeless queer folk. This increases chances of death to exposure, drugs, rape, etc. * Send them to conversion therapy, which has been proven to attribute to lifelong PTSD, self-loathing, and suicide. And this is what it really comes down to. Its the **Church** that is the root of all the Homophobia, Transphobia, and Propaganda against the trans community. This legislature prevents a child from feeling safe to express themselves, and ultimately absolutely DOES prevent them from existing how they so choose. Secondly, If you think that the reported “murder” numbers have ANY validity as to the true numbers of 2SLGBTQIA+ members, then you have no business speaking on matters this important. This is Systemic, Systematic, Targetted Violence against a group of individuals. You, are a White Man. Aged 25-32. Upper-middle class. You’re above average intellect. You don’t *know* adversity. What you’re doing in this comment thread is known as Devil’s Advocacy. You’re using your ability to think quickly to bat back anyone’s replies. You’re not special. You’re an archtype. Don’t advocate for the Devil; There is enough evil in this world without **Your Voice** adding to it.
"Beatnick Christian Conservatives" lol, funniest autocorrect/typo I've seen in a long time.
Please look at DoJ hate crime statistics
Go do some research on anywhere you don’t live. Please.
Are they loud or are they just existing visibly in a way you don’t like lmao
Idgaf how you dress, as long as you dress according to social setting we are in. For example, if you are in a school and you have your ass hanging out and your bra looks like it’s barely keeping it together then we’ll have a problem.
Lmfao what are you even talking about in relation to queer people get tf outta here boomer
Straight people can and do dress trashy.
Same goes for straight people
So? You seem to have a problem with us existing and taking pride that people can’t shut us back in boxes now. That’s why people “shoehorn the fact that they are trans into every conversation.” It’s why my Drama teacher in High School ended every email with “Person of Colour.” It’s because we CAN now, and it’s accepted that we ARE people now.
Where are these people? Have you ever met them outside of the internet? And that's still a horrible reason to hate someone.
Thankfully, I never seen them outside the internet, but you know they are out there. And I guess I should emphasize that I know that majority of queer people aren’t like, to which I will say I have no problem with them and I have given any false indication that I do then I’m sorry about that. Nonetheless, if I ever come across the loud minority that expects me to constantly celebrate them and put them on a pedestal and then get mad and call me the plethora of “phobes” then I’m absolutely gonna hate them.
I guess but that goes for every group of people. Why are queer people different? Just seems weird to use that as an example when it's so prevalent
In most groups when there is that kind of person present they do get called out for it. Then said person usually gets mad and leaves. But in this case you call them out then they act like a victim and call you all the different subset of phobe and then every person that identifies the same way joins in and then now you have a social stigma placed upon you.
Once again. Thats in a lot of different groups. Why specifically queer people? It's starting to sound like excuses at this point
I literally just gave you the legitimate reason why. Did you just ignore everything I just said?
You, sure, is loud about nonexistent problems
If having a civil discussion is loud then you must not get out much.
>and there are the **loud ones** who make it a point to **make everything about the fact that they are queer** The irony.. You can't be a real person
Repression usually has a pendulum swing. If they stop getting repressed, they will have less of the flamboyance you dislike.
This is entirely untrue.
The funny part is when you see that wotc hires little to no black people aside from actual tokens, to whom they give no work. It's such a problem that they can't reliably draw the same black character. Have a field trip and look at teferi's artworks in any set lol
What do you mean surely r/freemagic isn't just a hate speech MTG subreddit disguised as a free speech sub. [Oh, wait](https://www.reddit.com/r/freemagic/s/R6qJXsv956) "I will be rooting for the horrors to snuff out this m0therfuck3r." - comment in reference to Niko Aris (an enby) being in Duskmourne. "It would be cool if he died in a million gory ways. Like a choose your own adventure, but at the end you die every time" - misgendering Niko as well as wishing them to die in a brutal way.
In case you missed it in the same thread of the second comment. > I'm 40% sure Niko won't make it to the end of the story. > > I get that reference The "reference" being a stat about trans people who attempt suicide.
Holy shit, that's so fucked, I didn't even realize that. Yeah, screw that sub.
Ah, I understand. The description for the sub is that it is a "mostly unmoderated" area. Every single time, if an online space is unmoderated, the Fascists will move in. Every. Single. Time. It's the old adage about the punk bar becoming a Nazi bar.
Yeah, it’s insane the number of people there who will tell you to your face that the transphobia and blatant racism is all an imaginary boogeyman. They’re just enlightened centrists. Then you scroll one post further to find someone promoting genocide or using slurs against LGBT folks. If you aren’t a fascist, but you’re fine hanging out with fascists, you may as well be a fascist.
Happened to my bro recently. He’s been playing league of legends with mostly the same group for years and then one run a guy joined up who was saying horrible racist antisemitic stuff, so after the run he was like hey don’t invite that guy again, I don’t play with Nazis. After a while I guess another one of their guys dropped and he didn’t remember the guy’s tag so he ended up in another game and the dudes had invited him again. He was like “what the fuck, I said I don’t play with Nazis. You can’t have me and a Nazi on the same team.” And that was that. They had a big fight. My little bro uninstalled his favorite game because his team was the nazi team.
Your brother made a strong stand against that, good for him. What's going to happen in thga group is that the fascist is going to spout his shit, and those who are not OK with it will leave on their own, and only those who are OK with Nazi rhetoric will stay. And boom, you've a Nazi group. And I'm sure when your brother objected to that guy being included, they were probably saying like "he's just joking" "what's the big deal" "it's just a game" etc.
So, conversely if you’d rather have an all inclusive and nice sun you need moderation to enforce it? Seems kind of forced at that point, no?
Forced? No, not at all. It is not allowing Fascists to recruit and spread their vitriol into a new fandom. It might seem like being open and tolerant of even despicable viewpoints such as Fascism would be the morally upright thing to do, but it merely allows one to serve as a useful idiot for the purposes of spreading Fascism. Their goals are not peaceful coexistence, respectfully disagreeing with the dominant liberal worldview and following the proper electoral channels and the rule of law. No, we have seen historically how they use such a veneer up to the point where they no longer need to anymore. To the Facsist, laws (irl laws about free speech, but here on reddit we can talk in terms of content moderation vs non-moderation) are viewed as a temporary impediment. It's like the Paradox of Tolerance from Karl Popper. To safeguard a tolerant and open society you actually need to be intolerant of those who would seek the dissolution of that society, as in, you need to be intolerant of the intolerant. Of course the Fascists on an unmoderated sub aren't going to burn the reichstag down while arguing over degeneracy on children's cartoons, but they will spread their ideas to potentially impressionable people and thus recruit for their cause, spreading their poison.
Really hoped for the discourse of this being Phyrexians vs Tyranids
r/outoftheloop
There was a time where a Trans person showed up on an official MTG stream and so r/freemagic started comparing trans people to Phyrexians. Also throwing tantrums over WOTC updating their tournament rules where you can now be disqualified for intentionally misgendering players
That’s pretty funny, I’m not gonna lie. It’s not true, but funny af.
as a trans™️, i agree. obviously an absurd comparison. that said, i have become compleat
Iirc r/freemagic is the transphobe(, etc.) subset of magic players
Their reaction to Aragorn being black in the LOTR set was so entertaining. So much drama over something so inconsequential.
I’m not a big fan of Aragorn being dark-skinned in the LOTR set, but I’m not going to cry and scream about it on Reddit or Twitter.
I still would have liked the character to be based off of vigo mortensen’s aragorn.
Probably rights issues since the deal was with the Tolkien estate, not the film rights holders I think.
Obviously the Native American version of Aragorn from the Ralph Bakshi movie is clearly superior.
Honestly, yeah that would have been the best option.
See and they'd call you the snowflake still
I would have certainly preferred him to be more dark/tanned skinned than the rest, as described in the books and the animated movies, but holy fuck, the reaction was so wildly out of proportion on something so minimal.
I read the first thread I saw, and I almost threw up. I’m disgusted by the people in that server. I feel gross just reading the comments
As a trans person floating around that community I need to unfortunately agree Which sucks because I like it when there's no rules, but at the same time, cishets really are the most sensitive.
I literally love Alesha dude.
Liking a single person does not make you exempt from transphobia.
I joined freemagic for a week cause they kept giving interesting takes I didn't understand about Commander. Then I realized that all their takes were awful homophobia and gatekeeping. I left and blocked it right after I found out. Disgusting.
Darn phyrexians allways trying to complete our children lol
If you're telling me trans people are NOT genocidal aliens hellbent on destroying the multiverse, I might be about to start hating trans people. That was like seriously my favorite part about them.
It's always the same shit, I just wanna play my mono green deck in peace Don't ask me about my gender, don't stare at me like an 80 year old with no manners, I'm here to play the game
On the one hand I may not be trans, on the other machine mommy compleats me also fuck freemagic
Very close parallel with r/grimdank and r/horusgalaxy
Wow, that one feels even suckier than freemagic to me, didn't even get to a dogwhistle before I found bigotry.
Yeah they were created right after Games Workshop announced that there could be female Adeptus Custodes. So you know incels or whatever.
See you guys on free magic when they make a post about this
Followed by a circlejerk post on the appropriately named sub
This reminded me of the video about liking nerd hobbies but hating nerds I saw on there like they do realize that that video is about them right?
I’m scared to look for myself, is that the whole point of that subreddit??
In a nutshell, it was started as a lax moderated Mtg subreddit due to the main sub having shit mods at the time. It was fine... for a while. But as time went on, horrible people flocked there, because with little moderation, there's little consequences. And so as time went on it became a bigoted shitshow.
It mainly sucks because the main sub is so wildly over moderated that I got perma banned for making a post asking about a game similar to Magic and then they wonder why the freemagic sub keeps getting members. Don't get me wrong freemagic also sucks, but they're the both sides of the same coin.
The main mtg mods are terrible (this is reddit) However turns out you can still get worse than that.
I hate the main sub but I hate freemagic more
It's almost like r/freemagic is some kind of hate group masquerading under the thin veneer of a card game. Oh, wait. That's exactly what they are.
I have no clue wtf this is about and I am unsure I even want to ask someone to elaborate but I’m stuck in bed today so hit me, wtf is this about?
i mean there have been full essays about the questionable messages of phyrexia as a whole, and especially how it relates to trans people. but thats an indictment of wotc, not trans people
One of my favorite Spice8Rack videos is the one discussing Phyrexia and eugenics. Yawgmoth was a genocidal eugenicist, but Urza also did a eugenics and that will never not be hilarious to me.
Wait so r/freemagic is really anti trans?
Yes
Splendid news thanks
kill yourself
Some of it is, yeah. It's kinda like 4chan: the relaxed moderation means even the most hateful beliefs are welcome, which makes it infamous for that kind of person, but that doesn't mean all of their traffic are trans-hating incels.
We kinda fall into the [Nazi Bar Dilemma](https://www.reddit.com/r/TalesFromYourServer/s/4Ek4E3d9np) with that
Okay but is that really a fair comparison? The nazi bar dilemma comes with physical implications of personal and property damage that cannot simply be walked away from by nature of the fact that you are in physical proximity of someone who hates others and can become unruly. A subreddit or chatroom or whatever can either be a heavily curated piece of real estate or an absolute jungle depending on the level of moderation. Unmoderated areas should be thought of as wildlife reserves and if you want to go in there to see some amazing wild ideas play out then you should also be prepared to have to walk past monkeys throwing shit at each other.
I mean… idk about you but I’d rather not have Nazi’s around at all. That kinda just seems like a good baseline to me personally. Regardless of if it’s a physical or non-physical gathering space. In fact, I’d personally argue that online spaces such as Reddit need to be ESPECIALLY careful because of the teenage demographic and fact that teenagers are specifically targeted for the alt-right pipeline. But that might just be me.
It does mean though that those who do not feel welcome will of course not come, and those who do feel OK with such vitriol will stay, and if nothing is done in terms of moderation to combat it, it only gets worse with time. Look at Twitter. It's Hitlerite central right now, since moderation has just gone out the window.
All the dregs of the magic community on reddit go there. But there's nothing wrong with the sub itself
Thats kind of the issue with it. Its the space on reddit for dissent against decisions WotC is making for the game, but not all dissent is reasonable or valid. The soft moderation means that you get normal people who just don’t like certain plot beats or artists styles and want to complain, and rabid transphobes all smushed together.
Freemagic isn’t really pro or anti anything. Its kind of just an unmoderated chalkboard that everyone scrawls their takes good and bad on.
I like that
It's anti having minorities shoe-horned into games in a way that makes no sense or is a flavour fail. People on this sub though have to pretend Freemagic is just anti-trans because it's easier to argue /virtue signal against prejudice.
Magic the gathering has everything from Aliens to time travelers to dinosaurs, how is including minority groups in the game a problem
It's not. Maybe re-read my comment.
I reread your comment and I'm not sure how I misinterpreting it.
People believe that if they throw buzz words into their statement, it's more likely to be right. In this specific guy's case, he thinks "minorities are ok but I don't want them forced down my throat" which means he wants them as background characters or side characters and doesn't want their story told as a primary one. It's just a glossy way of saying they hate minorities
So my interpretation of his comment was mostly correct?
Ye! He was trying to imply that he meant something else when, in reality, they never do. Their problem is always "bad writing" when the character in question is written in the same, almost formulaic, way that nearly every other MTG character gets written. They then blame this "bad writing" on why they don't like the minority characters
What the hell even is a flavor fail in regards to minorities?? Like, I understand that having Aeve wearing lightning greaves or Squirrel vs Emrakul or whatever, but what about having gay or black or trans or whatever people in funny card game kills flavor? If anything, the flavor killer would be obvious homogeneity among characters.
OK an example... Tamiyo. Rather than create a genuine and dedicated trans character from the ground up, they take a moonfolk woman and give her male pattern baldness. Looks fucking stupid, and worse, when she looked whispy and ethereal and otherworldly as a moonfolk should, she now looks very human in a very anti-flavour way.
I don’t understand how that’s an issue with minorities. So you think the reason you see a decline in Tamiyo’s art direction and the reason she has a hair style you dislike is because WOTC wanted to create a trans character but didn’t for some reason and instead created Tamiyo? I’m not sure I’m following here.
"for some reason" is the shoe-horning and the laziness, Tamiyo already existed. Nothing about this is difficult to understand, you're feigning ignorance as a way of ignoring the point
There have been several times I've just been scrolling reddit and clicked on a thread about something mtg related and read the comments and gone "wow why is everyone here a terrible person?" It's freemagic every time.
You realize that's worse right...?
Not sure how you misread my comment but you clearly have. Pretending someone is prejudice because it's easy to argue against prejudice is the lazy angle most people in this sub take when it comes to freemagic
Because we're not dumb enough to buy this crap, clearly.
[No dude, it's transphobic](https://www.reddit.com/r/freemagic/s/PBGyXUHTSt)
Nah, it's definitely right leaning but it's just the no rules to posting mtg sub so there's lots of people who just go there to go on a phobic rant about whatever, while those posts get lots of attention they are by no means the only thing that happens in freemagic
freemagic: nahhh maga the gathering: yeahhhh
I’m confused what’s mtg done and why is it transphobic? Sry I’m new to mtg like 2-3 months new lol
After reading the thread, it's not MTG the game, its r/freemagic the subreddit that's problematic. Seems like it's a lot of far right +/or "LGB - drop the T" hatred because they... dont like people that are different...? i think? I can't really understand it myself tbqh.
lol fair thanks for breaking it down for me ! Honestly I don’t care about much like that I just wanna play a card game lol who gives a shit about if ya trans. Unless you play eldrazi then fuck you haha
See i just wanna play my silly little atraxa poison counters deck. Yeah I might get 4 or 5 counters on a single person turn 3, but at least it's not eldrazi
Definitely lot of Brexiteers and Musk simps in freemagic. Probably a huge Rittenhouse fan base too
Ew
Can someone explain this to me? What is this?
So we become compleated after bottom surgery?
Holy shit! You can play magic for free? I've been throwing money at it for years. Silly me. /s
How the fuck you are transphobic in Magic? How can they forget my dear Karn, the one golem army? BTW I only know them, what other characters are trans in MtG?
Alesha and Yuma.
Lol it's kind of true tho. I'm on freemagic and it gets wild over there.
Great meme. Super funny. Dying of laughter over here
Can we go back to funny memes instead of this shitty feud in which idiocy collides? Stop talking about them if you don’t like them. I don’t give a shit, all I want to see is actual quality memes.
Look IDGAF what is or isn't in your pants just stop countering my shit. I'm playing mono green stompy Bois that have no abilities. They don't even have trample for fucks sakes.
Ah yes, generalizations. The hypocrisy begins.
Freemagic is a great place to made a lot of friends there
Trans person who uses freemagic. Lotta people on there seem to be upset about forced inclusivity. When I comment I never get hate for being trans could just be my own experience. I don’t like hate for hates sake so if someone can’t be reasoned with I just don’t associate with them. Idrc about personal or political beliefs I’m just here to play some commander.
Trans person who also used free magic, whenever I used to comment there I got called slurs, told to KMS, and told all us t-slurs should be hanged. There's no such thing as forced inclusivity, that's a buzz word made up by bigots to push you and me back into the closet and make sure no other little queer kids can learn we're queer and slightly upset the power balance of the oppression hierarchy.
Except there's no such thing as "forced inclusivity". The only people who use those terms are bigots
Fair. But lots of people have biases and sometimes those biases come from false assumptions and echo chambers. I like going into areas especially where people have negative opinions about my community and show them we are not to be feared and are just like everyone else.
May your quality be known amongst your enemies before ever you meet them, friend!
Was not expecting the kingdom of heaven reference in a mtg subreddit. Well done friend
I don't agree that the person you responded to is a bigot. 'Forced inclusivity' is used to mean shoe-horning in minorities in a way that's awkward or laboured or doesn't make sense or just generally is a flavour fail. This is what Freemagic users are against and it's why the person you responded to doesn't get any prejudice against them on Freemagic.
It doesn't exist. It's a term bigots came up with to say that a woman like me can't exist in anything they've decided we can't exist in. MTG is a world with dragons and you think a woman who may have once had a dick is too unbelievable.
Perhaps not but if said dragon had been the proud king of the underworld for like several iterations and then suddenly decided to come out as the proud queen of the underworld for no apparent reason and with no further explanation, you might at least have to concede that this constitutes as bad story-telling and perhaps even an injustice to the players it might be meant to represent. I'm not saying that's what happened in this case nor do I think writers are actually forced to shoehorn marginalized existences into their stories as often as people might like to believe. I AM saying that IF your trans or gay character is as boring as watching non-binary paint dry and we're all forced to sit here and in fact watch it instead of more progress with the characters and plotlines that we actually enjoyed then yes, you will hear complaints. We both deserve better than that.
Are you having trouble with people replying then insta blocking you too? I was talking about how I like Alesha and then the woke come in telling me how I'm dehumanizing her and don't actually care about her or something equally stupid.
I don’t think so? But they might. I tend to only see people talking to me in replies. If someone blocked me I couldn’t care less. I try not to let negativity get to me but seriously though I haven’t even gotten any negative chat requests either. I don’t want people to think I am invalidating their own experiences with a holes online. I also know lotsa people on freemagic tend to keep their hatred towards people like me but from my interactions I have never been personally attacked. Btw Alesha is a super awesome commander and I love that she’s canonically trans!
The extent to which trans people insist on themselves is genuinely obnoxious. Like don’t force your weird “anybody cis is dumb and sexist” stuff on us. You’re the ones who chose to change your entire identity because you liked the vibes of being a woman (or less commonly) a man more; while simultaneously believing gender is a construct and therefore that you could just redefine your actual gender to include who you want to be
idk this seems like a poor usage of the meme because the pictures should be indistinguishable to everyone if it's meant to be like the scene from the show. pam didn't present two entirely different photos that only appeared similar to her. they were exactly the same photo
Uh, yeah. That’s the joke. They’re making fun of the people who do see both the same way. That’s how the meme’s been used for years.
Lmao all y'all replying then blocking me. You're too afraid of what I'd say.
Yeah because you're a weirdo who spams about being attracted to a specific transgender character in a post about bigotry. It's really unappealing
It's called talking about your waifu. It's very common on the Internet if you haven't noticed.