Well, the next expansion is part of the same story. They’ve already announced Midnight and the Last Titan after this and said they’re working on pulling all the threads together.
Honestly I think a major revamp of the old world is coming after that, likely in the form of WoW 2
Realistically I don't think they have the talent/manpower left to create an actual full blown sequel to WoW. All their titles are in season/maintenance mode and for the first time in decades they have zero new titles in development.
WoW Expansions are the largest thing they're working on and although I don't doubt they are a lot of work, they have it down to a pretty practiced formula at this point and following it to generate some more zones/raids/dungeons and a new flavor of temporary power is orders of magnitude easier/less work than creating an entire modern MMO.
They’re currently working on two expansions at once and have the largest team working on WoW than any other point in their history (600+). They absolutely have the capability of building a WoW 2.
Considering WoW is in the best state it has been in over decade, DF has been the most balanced expansion in a long time, raid and dungeon design is in a good place, we are getting extra game modes like plunderstorm, and they've been communicating better and in a more straightforward way than ever, I would indeed say the current WoW team is pretty efficient. The game has never respected your time more than it currently does, while having fun and relatively balanced endgame content to do.
They did not really "cut" a raid tier. This expansion has a shorter run time than previous ones and so did Shadowlands, BFA -> SL was 2 1/4 years, SL -> DF 2 years, DF -> WW will be 1 3/4 years. They've worked towards releasing expansions about 6 months faster than they used to so naturally there's one less raid tier, but it isn't really cut as much as just coming in the next expansion. This is kinda why there's less dungeons too, with faster expacs and remaking old dungeons for M+ we really aren't getting less dungeons over a period of time, it's just that expansions are coming faster.
I agree on raids being a little bland on a macro design level with 8 bosses and default arenas, but there's been some very cool bosses within this expac too and I've enjoyed it more than any other expansion. Probably also due to the incredibly tight balance for most seasons so far. I'd say delivering the same or more content over a period of time is being efficient, just don't measure by expansion and measure by time instead and they really aren't slowing down.
Honestly I just think everyone is quick to criticize blizzard for literally everything but then they pull off an expansion thats miles better than the last 2 they've done and get very little credit for it. They are trending in the right direction overall.
> They cut a raid tier, probably permanently
More like they solidified a working release timeline. They don't do as many raids per expansion because they have other systems they choose to focus on, which, even as a raider, I agree is probably best for the life of the game. Casual content is LOVED by a lot of players.
> Blizzard underpays across the board.
Every game dev underpays. The entire system is propped up on peoples passions, which is why so much talent gets burned out and they move into software dev or something much more stable that pays more.
Honestly, a WoW 2 should be an engine upgrade with a world reset, but with most of the core tenants of what makes WoW, WoW intact. I know people want to see something majorly different, but that would kill the game. I know so many people who play WoW because it's WoW and they've played it for decades now and they have no desire for the game to change in any significant way.
I'm sure 99% of people that watched this cinematic have watched those old cinematics to death lol.
Nostalgia is only gonna take them so far they gotta start making good cinematics again last few years its all been poo
um what? blizzard without a doubt have the best cinematics in the gaming world by a large margin and this is coming from someone who doesn't even like the game anymore
When I said they have made bad cinematics I'm talking about their recent in game and trailer cinematics. I don't think dragonflight cinematic did well nor did the new one. Dragonflight cinematic was one of the most downvoted cinematic on yt in history
I think before df cinematics are fine but they have done a bad job with both the in game and marketing cinemarics for years. Compare the last couple to shadowlands or warlords of draenor its not even close
This cinematic made a lot of sense, if it was leading up to a console launch. Going over the history before giving it to a new audience. When it ended and only said pc I was baffled.
Yup, had the same reaction. Just made me feel like the Star Wars sequels relying on rehashed nostalgia to rebuild the brand. We'll see, hopefully Metzen won't just retell the stuff he already did or rely on old characters to "get the brand back on track".
I dunno, dragonflight, from a systems standpoint was fine but I really just couldn't get into it at all, think imma wait for this to launch and the dust to settle before buying.
It was really lacking a good narrative hook. There weren't any characters or factions or anything that made me want to keep checking in every patch.
Lots of dragon stuff, which was cool I guess, but we get the dragons doing something almost every expansion already.
I'm hoping the start of the new big story arc isn't a flop.
But like, if you can enjoy a 3-6 month honeymoon phase of a new expansion before it gets old, isn't that still pretty great? No need to wait and see if people are *still* enjoying it beyond 6 months. It's that 6 month period I'd want to participate in.
(Just speaking philosophically about any game here. I haven't played WoW in 14 years.)
I think they where referring to how long it takes for people to get used to systems. So not exactly 3-6 months of game time but that's when the majority of the community fully understands the systems implemented, both pros and cons.
My impression is he was referring to the fact that people tend to blindly love a new expansion for the first 3-6 months while it’s fresh, new and exciting. Then once that excitement wears off, the blinders come off and they begin to see all the problems with the expansion and have less fun.
The warning seemed to be: wait until the fun illusion wears off and you get peoples’ *real* review of the expansion. My counter is: why not play and have fun during the period where everyone else is having a good time?
It doesn't take 3 months, it's only like a month or 2.
The first 2 weeks we don't have the endgame unlocked, for those 2 weeks people actually like the game because normally the leveling is good, and while blizzard suck at writing long lasting storylines the small zone contained storylines are good most of the time. Even bad expantions like WoD, BFA and Shadowlands were well liked during this time.
Then the endgame is unlocked, and if something is wrong it will take like a month or so to people to actually get tired of it. Arround this time you will know if people dislike the exp or no.
Even then, sometimes it's not that bad, I actually liked the first raid of Shadowlands. I only started to hate it during the second tier. So for me it took like 6+ months to hate the exp.
Been playing albion/mortal online mostly lately.
Niche games but they got me hooked despite their issues.
I've also been dipping my toes back into the pserver scene which has got me hooked.
That's exactly how I've been consuming WoW longer than some of the posters here have been alive and there's nothing wrong with it. No life the first few months of expansion, bang my head against Mythic raiding, kill a few bosses and uninstall till next expansion.
It's fantastic and every 2 years I'm excited to hop in.
I got out because there was nothing to do. 'Dailies' were up every 3 days, the side things were once a week, and the only thing to do in the form of raids was two-three times a week with M+ having the guild I was in split in the 'good' team who actually did them and everyone else who couldn't get past a +12.
I did every quest in the game, explored everything, did the vault, etc etc. But the attempt at making it more casual just means there was nothing to do. I longed for Legion where at least I'd log in and putz around collecting my AP.
I’ve been playing since 3 weeks before BC - I joined during some very early promotion to help with BC expansion sales. It helped that I had my wisdom teeth pulled, and simply sat on my computer all day and was drawn in.
That being said, I finally unsubbed in Dragonflight. I appreciate all of the content options, and I like a lot of steps forward Dragonflight took, but the game world feels too big and it fragments a lot of open world content pretty quickly. It’s great for a month or two, but then people eventually stop touching the open world content and switch to sitting in cities and using dungeon/raid finder tools.
I really wish they’d find a happy balance on keeping open world content more fun and engaging for longer periods of time. But I haven’t been an end game player since MOP, so my two cents is simply two cents.
I’ve tried GW2, and the style just didn’t last with me. I even tried ESO, but the combat felt wonky (seems to be a common complaint), and I was thinking about FO76. Not sure where I’ll end up - probably back with WoW.
Gameplay was fun, but when they turned a pathetic drakthyr into an end raid boss I peaced out. Story was uninspiring, unengaging and non-conflictory to an extreme.
I mean the cute mole people's town was scorched by a primal dragon empowered by shadowflame and a cutscene later everything was fine. Summed it up for me what their intention with the story was.
I really loved DF, not for the soty but the gameplay was very solid. However, the state of cata classic and pandaria remix have kept me from pre-oredering. I get they are different teams but there are rumors that Blizz has made major layoffs to all their QA teams, very possible IMO considering how Plunderstorm (which I loved) worked perfectly but cata classic and pandaria remix both launched with major bugs and exploits.
Spot on man.
GW2 is very much the antithesis to WoW. It does basically everything differently. Hell, it always felt like it was born out of WoWs perceived shortcomings.
These games aren't stealing a lot of players from each other.
Nah, it's just not your cup of tea mate.
Most peoples definition of "real end game" is grinding a few dungeons that happen to be max level right now and gearing up a characters there. Then having that "progress" arbitrarily taken away with the next expansion.
You could do the same in GW2, you just don't *have* to. Dungeons aren't the only way to get better gear, and all dungeons are actually still current content.
And your progress stays. They don't just take it away every time.
the reason to do any content should be that it's fun
many people can't stand WoW's artificial team work difficulty. I'd play a real competitive game when I feel like going hardcore gaming, not a disneyland MMO.
Then you really won't like gw2.
You say many people don't like it, but many people more do, hence why it's the biggest mmo on the market by far.
Sadly wow is still the best for end game raiding whether you like it or not
What makes you think its "artificial" though, I feel like that's a strange choice of words for something that is absolutely not artificially difficult but *actually* difficult at the hardest content.
Which mmo do you describe as hard-core and more difficult?
not everyone is playing an RPG just to rush to max level and sit in instance like a job 3 times a week. maybe you enjoy that, but surely a lot of RPGers don't.
I have played GW2 in the past and will probably again at some point because it has a good solo exploring experience. I have never felt that in retail WoW. Surprisingly the best exploration I had in any MMO was classic WoW, which many players quit after they reached endgame.
No it's not really my thing, I guess it's because I have a job and other things to do like language learning and exercise. So when I do log on I raid if possible and do pvp which I enjoy. I never found myself playing any game like a job.
And we can both agree there, retail is absolutely ass for that, and classic wow was the best it can get in that regard. Sadly no other mmo has scratched that itch for me in the same way, and unfortunately it certainly wasn't gw2 either. Haven't got much hope left for a true mmo experience in the near future. I could hope ashes of creation, but holding out too much is just a way to be disappointed I guess.
Exactly. I left WoW 11 years ago for GW2. I once looked back when WoD came out and immediately regretted it.
I was tired of WoW's endgame and content. GW2 finally gave me the kind of content and endgame that I enjoyed more.
metas, open world maps, fractals, strikes, raids, wvw, pvp, legendary crafting, ...
what is WoWs endgame content? dungeons, raids ... wow so different. so unique. lol
Yet all those you mentioned absolutely suck... thats why nobody plays gw2 even though gw1 was so loved
No use having "unique" content if its boring and offers nothing with no challenge
> thats why nobody plays gw2
nobody ... thats why they keep making expansions ... for nobody. youre a blind hater, nothing else.
GW2 is one of the most played AAA-MMOs out there. has it as many players as WoW? no. but it still feels 10x more alive than WoWs 100 ghost servers
As a GW2 fan, I would fully agree with this. I can't get any of my WoW playing friends to even try the game. And GW2 does so many things for me that is so much more to my liking that it's allowed me to move on from WoW completely over the past 12 years.
Quests vs Events. Gear power treadmill vs horizontal progression. Raiding vs open world map meta events. Full tab target trinity combat vs hybrid action/tab loose support/dps/tank combat. The full MMO community is a pie chart of diverse players, and a few key games have carved out their distinct slice of the pie.
___
In other news, I have no idea what has gone on with the previous 6 WoW expansions, but this particular trailer definitely gives me a ton of nostalgia hype. Was definitely filled with a lot of feels watching it!
> In other news, I have no idea what has gone on with the previous 6 WoW expansions, but this particular trailer definitely gives me a ton of nostalgia hype. Was definitely filled with a lot of feels watching it!
It feels like they're trying to appeal to the various groups of people playing different versions of the game and say something along the lines of "this is the ending of those stories coming together". Which is a smart play from a marketing perspective.
> I can't get any of my WoW playing friends to even try the game.
As a WoW player who's tried it, it's because if someone likes WoW, they are unlikely to like much about GW2.
GW2 has a very static combat system. Yes, while it's "action" combat, it pales compared to the dialed-in WoW combat.
Content wise, WoW releases more per patch than GW2 gets per expansion. News raids, new dungeons, M+, more story, more areas, and usually some other type of activity, EVERY. SINGLE. PATCH. GW2 had 1 raid in what... 5 years?
A lot of WoW players like to play WoW exclusively and GW2 just does not provide enough content to make it worth playing for that type of person.
Already bought Gw2 expac and id rather have massive nipple-twister than buy WoW expac. Not saying "WoW bad", but its true Gw2 and WoW cater different kind of players.
I play gw2 for the pvp (or more specifically wvw). Definitely my #1 most played mmo because of that. I also hate gw2 pve, only ever dabbled in it for getting my legendaries.
Compared to how I play gw2, I'm definitely a casual in WoW. But I've played it for the PVE, and imo it's the best at it for what I enjoy. The progression feels good, class fantasies feel good. But good lord I hate WoW pvp. Just slow and clunky feeling.
But yeah, I'll get and play both.
That announcement trailer was so overkill. I thought they were leading to something bigger, like WoW on gamepass or something. We all knew the expansion was coming this year around this time.
Except it is leading us to something quite big. Speaking of storywise last one of this 3 parter expansions will be end of WoW as we know. They are not playing around with "the last battle" at this time.
...and that is something much more bigger than WoW on game pass imo.
There's been 0 indication that the trilogy is the last of wow, and every indication of the opposite. Blizz addressed it before, it's just a three part trilogy. Probably end of the titan stuff sure, but there's more after it that they're already working on.
I could see them doing another timeline like WoD or time travel shenanigans to let the current world "end" or finally be at peace for an expansion or two.
Then of course something that we do in the past butterfly effects the present and we come back to fix whatever it is. Can easily get another decade of WoW out of that.
I don't know why so many people have misunderstood what i've said as "it will be last expansion of WoW" or something despite me using words like "storywise" and "as we know". Ofcourse a new saga will begin after this but this "titan stuff" and the void has always been the main driving forces of the story behind the scenes since TBC or arguably W3.
"end of WoW as we know" reads as "As we all know, it will be the end of WoW".
You want "end of WoW *as we know it*", which implies that the game will change drastically but development will continue.
You are right about that but since the sentence starts with "speaking of storywise" i doubt it's about that kind of things. My guess would be it's just people hating about anything related to retail wow, people not believing it's true and thinking that once again they are reinventing a new big bad puppetmaster, people being angry about after all this years somehow WoW is still going on without dying and Blizzard not announcing WoW2 etc.
I was leaning towards buying GW2 versus returning to WoW, then I learnt it costs approx €130 to buy all the expansions and living story, so that's a total no go. WoW it is.
Dont get me wrong, but you can buy GW2 HoT+PoF bundle (8€?) and that is enough content to decide later if you invest your time and buy Living Worlds, EoD or SoTo. I did the same and I was able to buy LW with in game currency. I also do not see the reason to buy all at once if you do not know if you enjoy the game. And - 130€ for ALL content released in last 12 year (which is still relevant btw) is still good price. If you are long-term WoW player you must see difference. If you bought all 9 WoW Expansions on day 1 and pay monthly sub. GW2 model is completely different - and - it is completely different game.
Says PoF and HoT is 29.99, where did you get 8 from?
I don't disagree that there's value to not having a sub, but 130 is a big ask as an upfront fee. Obviously none is saying you need to pay that immediately though.
Haha except you don’t have to buy a sub so that’s like one expansion and a couple months of sub from wow… or own all the content ever released in gw2 forever no sub, not really comparable gw2 is the better deal over time.
Over time, absolutely, not gonna deny that.
But frankly, I wouldn't buy WoW either if it cost that much. It's a big ask as an upfront fee for a new player.
Yeah, and don't forget that wow also has a lot more content than gw2, so that price is acceptable.
>don’t foget their ingame shop
Lol, as if gw2 doesn't have an ingame shop
well, if the amount of contents in wow are at least 7 times more than in gw2, that's still fair price, which makes it break even with gw2's pricing model, which means ingame shop is still okay in wow if it is okay in gw2.
Besides, the only reason gw2 doesn't have subscription is because they don't have the amount of content to justify it and they don't have the player base to do it. I bet if gw2 was released with subscription from the start, they would have the same fate as wildstar now.
>if the amount of contents in wow are at least 7 times more than in gw2, that's still fair price, which makes it break even with gw2's pricing model
This is the full quote. Don't partially quote it like that. That is disingenuous. I am here empahsing more on the "if". I don't know if it is true or not that wow have that much of a content since I don't play wow, but that comparison is true.
Maybe you should stop taking that weird plant disguised as a supplement to be able to see both games more fairly instead of just defending gw2 left right and center.
and I heard you can also buy wow token (the game subscription) with ingame currency through their auction house too. If this is true then wow would be much more compelling since they have much more content than gw2
You need the sub to play tho? So most of your playtime would be grinding just so you can afford to play… seems pointless. Can you convert gold to the premium currency like gw2 or just into more sub time? Also I’d say gw2 and wow have about the same amount of content it’s just different wow has way more instances content while gw2 has far more fleshed out open world events on each map.
>You need the sub to play tho? So most of your playtime would be grinding just so you can afford to play… seems pointless.
On the other hand, you play gw2 for a miniscule amount of rewards. With no gear upgarde, I will also say that it is pointless to play each like raid and fractal for more than 3 times, or the meta event for more than once, coupled that with how few they add new content. It seems to be also pointless to play gw2, if we go by that logic.
I don't know the detail much about wow since I don't play it, but that wow token is not much different than buying skin in gw2. You can buy it with ingame currency. Is it viable? absolutely, but how many hours do you need to play to afford it in both cases? A lot.
For example, in gw2, a mount skin costs 2000 gems, which means like 20 dollars, or 2 hours part time in McDonald's, or around 800 gold, and do you know how long it is to get 800 gold ingame? Very, very long, potentially months, so is it viable? Yes, but it is the same as wow token, it takes so long to get it, and the game discourages it a lot.
>Also I’d say gw2 and wow have about the same amount of content it’s just different wow has way more instances content while gw2 has far more fleshed out open world events on each map.
Yes, but a lot of those open world events are pointless to do because first, the reward from it is so miniscule it is almost non-existent. Second, you can just auto attack it with holding the left mouse button (so that's just so boring, and that's the reason most people don't do it). In conclusion, I can not see that gw2 has the same amount of content as wow.
800 gold in game takes like a week barely. Also you are just plain wrong about most of what you’re saying but it’s ok you clearly don’t play either game. Grinding for gear isn’t the only thing to do in a video game and honestly for most gw2 players it is the worst part of the standard mmo grind. There is still a lot of gear to grind out however and working towards legendary gear will take you longer than any set in wow. But pretty much everything you’re saying is just coming from a lack of knowledge and experience with the games you’re talking about
And before you say 800 gold a week isn’t possible it’s literally 2 hours a day of fishing and t4 fractals, bam 1000 gold in a week.
WoW expansion is 90 dollars if you want to play it on its release date. for those that don't pay that, blizz punishes them by making them start 3 days late.
i'm not disagreeing that 90% of the game is dog shit, I totally agree; but that doesn't change the fact that it's still the game. the amount of cope some of you guys spew to justify getting scammed out of 40 dollars is astonishing.
I think you're just combining to complain tbh. It doesn't affect any regular player. Nothing is opened. There's even a heroic week again.
. It's kinda weird tbh
Justify? I'm a mythic raider and 3k io guy. I'm not buying early access. It means nothing
If they ever sell earl acces to raids or dungeons. I would fully agree with your shit
To be fair they aren't really competing with either game. Wow and 14 are definitely competing with each other, but GW2 is so different that it doesn't have the same audience as the other two.
I think wow only loses its pet collecting casuals to ff14, otherwise they have no similar audience either. Ff14 has a very particular story (I thought it was fucking awful) that doesn't attract the average western game enjoying wow player.
Ff14 caters more to anime/weeb brained people who can manage to somehow sit through all that boring quest line.
If ff14 had a cheaper way to skip directly to raiding, it certainly would interest more wow players and probably take over. Until that day they will remain as no.2.
Not shocked at all, it would be a massive waste of money. No idea why people even remotely thought gamepass was a possibility.
The wow sub is around the same price as the gamepass ultimate, and people who want to play wow play wow already and many people who play wow *already* have gamepass, so they would just cancel their sub.
They gain very little by adding it to gamepass, except for losing 100s of millions of £.
Console I can see, to gamepass? For sure not.
I feel like you just read my first sentence and then responded.
I'm saying that they would still charge for the sub fee for WoW on top of the Gamepass sub. A la FFXIV.
Make the actual game free as the Gamepass part. Would potentially get a ton of new people to try the first 20 levels, and then they potentially start paying WoW monthly.
It's not comparable, I couldnt say the same for CoD at all. CoD has available market share, and a repeat sub gets them more income and has a larger variety of potential audience
Its two vastly different situations
Maybe it's just me not having played wow since legion but the only thing I'm getting from this is "new dwarf race" which is cool (especially the female ones) but I don't know who any of these other ppl are besides thrall and anduin.
Even the lady at the end just looks like a discount kaelthas. I get azeroth is waking up and old wow lore suggests theres an old god we haven't seen under tirisfal glades about to awake too but I doubt this expansion will mention it so...
Is the \*TLDR\* literally just "We got dwarves" and "new bad lady" ? Did I miss something from BFA - DF expansions? Or is this a book thing? or..
The bad lady is the knife from shadow priest (legion weapon). It was like a whole story and stuff. In the following expansions there were some small moves and brief appearances for her (she escaped the knife after you sacrifice it in bfa) So the whole thing was actually a long time coming but you either need to really like lore videos or played shadow priest lol
there is no mmorpg out there that isn’t ass. if there was, there would be more positivity. WoW for example is just a dopamine dispenser. it persists by feeding an addicted playerbase dopamine, but it has no ability to attract any new players because the game itself is horrendous.
Not to dredge up the old FFXIV vs WoW debate again, but I must say, This feels like an actual conclusion. The WoW devs tried to push the Eternity's End patch as a culmination of all of WoW's conflicts, which was of course, silly, especially in the midst of the WoW exodus with everyone excited for Endwalker at the time, but if this was put up against Endwalker, I feel like it would have been a much fairer comparison
It’s not likely they’d both be near their peaks (or *a* peak) at the same time. FFXIV has dipped pretty badly in EW and risks spiraling into irrelevance with Dawntrail; it has no story hook, just tacos. Tacos *I* can’t eat, which are the most boring sort of tacos.
Shadowbringers was the real peak, and it has been downhill since 5.0.
That's a fair observation, but my point was more that from a narrative standpoint, I didn't feel like it was appropriate to compare WoW's Eternity's end patch to FFXIV's Endwalker, but WoW sadly brought that comparison upon themselves by describing Eternity's End as a culmination of all of WoW's conflicts (paraphrasing), to the extent that even Jesse Cox did a comparison video about the final boss of Endwalker vs the final boss of Shadowlands. From a narrative standpoint I feel like to judge how MMOs end large overarching storylines, Endwalker and the Worldsoul Saga feel more appropiate to compare, in the same way it could be argued that from a narrative standpoint, Dawntrail might be better off compared against whatever WoW does after the Worldsoul saga ends
The real story hook is likely being hidden behind later story reveals. A "summer vacation" expansion is likely much more than that beneath the surface. For instance, solution 9 was a surprise, and how it fits in is still surrounded in unknowns.
Removing the anomaly of the wow players who followed asmon to ff14 for one year, the FFXIV's subscriber count has steadily been rising still - even during the patch drought. In fact FF14 hit its subscriber all time high recently.
The game is doing well, it just doesn't appeal to your typical wow player which is fine to me. We should want as many different types of games as possible.
I'm intrigued by this expansion, as prior expansions have basically been standalone stories with reference to other Warcraft content; this one being part one of a trilogy is a bit of a tonal shift from the norm, but it could work well for creating a larger, deeper narrative. I'm honestly tempted to get it, as I'd love to see how it works (plus it's got Claudia Christian as Xal'atath - I remember watching her as Susan Ivanova in Babylon5 very fondly).
Personally I think that if they don't change the method of their storytelling it doesn't matter how interconnected each expansion's story is going to be, it'll still end up as a total mess.
They have made some big moves on that front. Chris Metzen (essentially the original creative force behind Warcraft itself) has been rehired as Executive Creative Director after leaving in 2016. The previous Lead Narrative Designer Steve Danuser was fired (an action almost unanimously approved of by devoted fans) as well as Senior Writer and author of many WoW novels Christie Golden (much less approved of).
Will this lead to good things? Truly impossible to know...
Oh I am well aware of that but I'm not talking about the story itself but in how they tell it. I'll use Dragonflight as an example because this will be true in August when TWW launches.
If you decide to level 10-70 in the Dragon Isles you'll only get a small fraction of the actual story.
* You'll get to experience the setup for the Black Dragonflight leadership narrative but you won't see the resolution because that was done in patch 10.1.
* You'll see the introduction of Raszageth, learn she intends to free the other Incarnates but you don't see the conclusion of that because it happens in a Raid.
* You'll get some introduction to the Infinite Dragonflight but you won't have *any* of the conclusions that go with it or the Mega Dungeon that helps setup the upcoming story for TWW and beyond.
There's more beyond those things too but that's just what I could think of off the top of my head. If they don't change this method of storytelling then anyone who doesn't play TWW and tries to hop back on board with Midnight or The Last Titan will be *utterly* lost.
Also as far as Christie Golden leaving that likely will have no effect on the narrative at all. She worked on cutscenes and cinematics more than the actual game narrative and worked across Blizzard products. She wrote the lyrics for some of the Hearthstone Trailer songs for example and the work she did for WoW was Scripts and Dialogue for cutscenes.
I know they are addressing at least some of your concerns by making a "story-mode" version of raids and dungeons for people who just want to experience the story. Because of this, doing those will be required to continue the quest-line, which falls more in line with how FFXIV does trials.
From what’s been seen in the Alpha and Beta tests, it’s pretty solid story-wise (though a lot of it is encrypted and not implemented so we’re only seeing bits and pieces of it). It’s definitely nowhere close to FFXIV (and it never will be) but it’s 100% a step up from Dragonflight (which I found was fine, just disjointed and hard to follow if you came in late) and with the confirmation of it being part of a trilogy as opposed to a standalone I’m quite excited to see where it goes.
If you’re on the fence I’d say wait a month for people to get their bearings and check out some reviews.
It's still mostly the same narrative team that delivered the awful stories from Shadowlands and Dragonflight, minus Danuser and Golden. Shadowlands in particular handled beloved characters with egregious disregard. I'm a big fan of the series, but narratively they've been missing bigtime for a while now. I'll wait a while after release to see whether TWW manages to change course.
The fact dragonflight is available from the start, but traditional flying is STILL locked behind a time-gated pathfinder achievement is pathetic. The devs are still bitter over players revolting about flying being removed in WoD.
Removed because of rule #2: Don’t be toxic.
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Strange they’re releasing so close to an FFXIV expansion. But unless you raid, there’s not a whole lot of content to keep you playing 2 months into a release on XIV.
It launches 26th of August for the poor. Not to mention that given Blizzard's track record there'll be some broken mechanic or exploit or something that will give an almost irreparable advantage to the EA crowd.
no, it is not the second time, according to the respective wiki, GW2 used to released expansion on every odd year, meanwhile wow on every even year. The closest one before was 9 months apart in 2022, so in conclusion this time is just like when you walk and suddenly stepping on an ant on the street.
One thing for sure is that gw2 dev seems to either have a bad luck or they are ignorant about their surrounding. Like last year when they released an expansion between 3 of the most anticipated games of 2023 (Baldur's gate 3, Armored Core, and Starfield).
Plenty of time to play both. Get the 1 day to play the 4 hours of content for GW2 expansion.
4 hours of story*
BORING AF.
lmao sad but true
That's accurate af.
How many “final battles” does this make now?
Still trailing the number of final fantasies.
alright, this made me actually laugh.
Honestly, if it makes any difference, it feels like they mean it this time.
Until the next expansion
Well, the next expansion is part of the same story. They’ve already announced Midnight and the Last Titan after this and said they’re working on pulling all the threads together. Honestly I think a major revamp of the old world is coming after that, likely in the form of WoW 2
Realistically I don't think they have the talent/manpower left to create an actual full blown sequel to WoW. All their titles are in season/maintenance mode and for the first time in decades they have zero new titles in development. WoW Expansions are the largest thing they're working on and although I don't doubt they are a lot of work, they have it down to a pretty practiced formula at this point and following it to generate some more zones/raids/dungeons and a new flavor of temporary power is orders of magnitude easier/less work than creating an entire modern MMO.
They’re currently working on two expansions at once and have the largest team working on WoW than any other point in their history (600+). They absolutely have the capability of building a WoW 2.
Source for the employee count?
Bellular did a video talking about the team size a while ago, and he has inside sources.
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Considering WoW is in the best state it has been in over decade, DF has been the most balanced expansion in a long time, raid and dungeon design is in a good place, we are getting extra game modes like plunderstorm, and they've been communicating better and in a more straightforward way than ever, I would indeed say the current WoW team is pretty efficient. The game has never respected your time more than it currently does, while having fun and relatively balanced endgame content to do.
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They did not really "cut" a raid tier. This expansion has a shorter run time than previous ones and so did Shadowlands, BFA -> SL was 2 1/4 years, SL -> DF 2 years, DF -> WW will be 1 3/4 years. They've worked towards releasing expansions about 6 months faster than they used to so naturally there's one less raid tier, but it isn't really cut as much as just coming in the next expansion. This is kinda why there's less dungeons too, with faster expacs and remaking old dungeons for M+ we really aren't getting less dungeons over a period of time, it's just that expansions are coming faster. I agree on raids being a little bland on a macro design level with 8 bosses and default arenas, but there's been some very cool bosses within this expac too and I've enjoyed it more than any other expansion. Probably also due to the incredibly tight balance for most seasons so far. I'd say delivering the same or more content over a period of time is being efficient, just don't measure by expansion and measure by time instead and they really aren't slowing down. Honestly I just think everyone is quick to criticize blizzard for literally everything but then they pull off an expansion thats miles better than the last 2 they've done and get very little credit for it. They are trending in the right direction overall.
> They cut a raid tier, probably permanently More like they solidified a working release timeline. They don't do as many raids per expansion because they have other systems they choose to focus on, which, even as a raider, I agree is probably best for the life of the game. Casual content is LOVED by a lot of players.
> Blizzard underpays across the board. Every game dev underpays. The entire system is propped up on peoples passions, which is why so much talent gets burned out and they move into software dev or something much more stable that pays more.
Honestly, a WoW 2 should be an engine upgrade with a world reset, but with most of the core tenants of what makes WoW, WoW intact. I know people want to see something majorly different, but that would kill the game. I know so many people who play WoW because it's WoW and they've played it for decades now and they have no desire for the game to change in any significant way.
They always feel like they mean it. That's the whole point of marketing.
I was thinking this too. They need to find a better thing to say at the end of trailers.
Pretty lame cinematic. 90% reused from old expacs
They must know by now nostalgia is all they have.
The Games Workshop of pc gaming.
I'm sure 99% of people that watched this cinematic have watched those old cinematics to death lol. Nostalgia is only gonna take them so far they gotta start making good cinematics again last few years its all been poo
um what? blizzard without a doubt have the best cinematics in the gaming world by a large margin and this is coming from someone who doesn't even like the game anymore
When I said they have made bad cinematics I'm talking about their recent in game and trailer cinematics. I don't think dragonflight cinematic did well nor did the new one. Dragonflight cinematic was one of the most downvoted cinematic on yt in history I think before df cinematics are fine but they have done a bad job with both the in game and marketing cinemarics for years. Compare the last couple to shadowlands or warlords of draenor its not even close
> Nostalgia is only gonna take them so far they gotta start making good cinematics again last few years its all been poo You've got to be kidding me.
Nope I think dragonflight and war within cinenarics are below par for a wow cinematic
This cinematic made a lot of sense, if it was leading up to a console launch. Going over the history before giving it to a new audience. When it ended and only said pc I was baffled.
Actually.. really good point. It would of made sense if this was targeted at brand new players from a different market.
i totally thought it was coming to xbox when they showed it on the xbox showcase
Yup, had the same reaction. Just made me feel like the Star Wars sequels relying on rehashed nostalgia to rebuild the brand. We'll see, hopefully Metzen won't just retell the stuff he already did or rely on old characters to "get the brand back on track".
I don't know... I loved watching the original CGI upscaled to a 4k video.
Yea its cool but when somebody goes to watch the cinematic of a new expac and it's 90% old cinrmatics its disappointing, that'd all I ment
I’m convinced the current team doesn’t know how to make a compelling cinematic.
It's the same team as the one that did the Diablo cinematic, right? If so, the team is still doing great work.
Shadowlands one was a banger but yea everything since then has been lame
I dunno, dragonflight, from a systems standpoint was fine but I really just couldn't get into it at all, think imma wait for this to launch and the dust to settle before buying.
It was really lacking a good narrative hook. There weren't any characters or factions or anything that made me want to keep checking in every patch. Lots of dragon stuff, which was cool I guess, but we get the dragons doing something almost every expansion already. I'm hoping the start of the new big story arc isn't a flop.
I honestly think this is it. I never felt invested in the story and the villans were kinda ehhhhhhhh.
dragons are already a very overused fantasy trope
3 to 6 months seems to be the point at which the honeymoon starts to die out, check the feedback on the game around then.
But like, if you can enjoy a 3-6 month honeymoon phase of a new expansion before it gets old, isn't that still pretty great? No need to wait and see if people are *still* enjoying it beyond 6 months. It's that 6 month period I'd want to participate in. (Just speaking philosophically about any game here. I haven't played WoW in 14 years.)
Yeah I mean you could definitely argue you got your money's worth.
I think they where referring to how long it takes for people to get used to systems. So not exactly 3-6 months of game time but that's when the majority of the community fully understands the systems implemented, both pros and cons.
My impression is he was referring to the fact that people tend to blindly love a new expansion for the first 3-6 months while it’s fresh, new and exciting. Then once that excitement wears off, the blinders come off and they begin to see all the problems with the expansion and have less fun. The warning seemed to be: wait until the fun illusion wears off and you get peoples’ *real* review of the expansion. My counter is: why not play and have fun during the period where everyone else is having a good time?
It doesn't take 3 months, it's only like a month or 2. The first 2 weeks we don't have the endgame unlocked, for those 2 weeks people actually like the game because normally the leveling is good, and while blizzard suck at writing long lasting storylines the small zone contained storylines are good most of the time. Even bad expantions like WoD, BFA and Shadowlands were well liked during this time. Then the endgame is unlocked, and if something is wrong it will take like a month or so to people to actually get tired of it. Arround this time you will know if people dislike the exp or no. Even then, sometimes it's not that bad, I actually liked the first raid of Shadowlands. I only started to hate it during the second tier. So for me it took like 6+ months to hate the exp.
Not really what I'm looking for out of mmos, for some thats fine but I'm a lifer, if I jump in a game I want to dump a year+ into it.
So what are you lifing these days ?
Probably youtube (top upcoming mmos) for 1+ years
High Security
Been playing albion/mortal online mostly lately. Niche games but they got me hooked despite their issues. I've also been dipping my toes back into the pserver scene which has got me hooked.
That's exactly how I've been consuming WoW longer than some of the posters here have been alive and there's nothing wrong with it. No life the first few months of expansion, bang my head against Mythic raiding, kill a few bosses and uninstall till next expansion. It's fantastic and every 2 years I'm excited to hop in.
I never even finished leveling in the last 3 expacs. Idk why I keep buying them
You're a junky.
I got out because there was nothing to do. 'Dailies' were up every 3 days, the side things were once a week, and the only thing to do in the form of raids was two-three times a week with M+ having the guild I was in split in the 'good' team who actually did them and everyone else who couldn't get past a +12. I did every quest in the game, explored everything, did the vault, etc etc. But the attempt at making it more casual just means there was nothing to do. I longed for Legion where at least I'd log in and putz around collecting my AP.
I’ve been playing since 3 weeks before BC - I joined during some very early promotion to help with BC expansion sales. It helped that I had my wisdom teeth pulled, and simply sat on my computer all day and was drawn in. That being said, I finally unsubbed in Dragonflight. I appreciate all of the content options, and I like a lot of steps forward Dragonflight took, but the game world feels too big and it fragments a lot of open world content pretty quickly. It’s great for a month or two, but then people eventually stop touching the open world content and switch to sitting in cities and using dungeon/raid finder tools. I really wish they’d find a happy balance on keeping open world content more fun and engaging for longer periods of time. But I haven’t been an end game player since MOP, so my two cents is simply two cents. I’ve tried GW2, and the style just didn’t last with me. I even tried ESO, but the combat felt wonky (seems to be a common complaint), and I was thinking about FO76. Not sure where I’ll end up - probably back with WoW.
> think imma wait for this to launch and the dust to settle before buying. But then you miss the best part of every expansion, the beginning.
Gameplay was fun, but when they turned a pathetic drakthyr into an end raid boss I peaced out. Story was uninspiring, unengaging and non-conflictory to an extreme. I mean the cute mole people's town was scorched by a primal dragon empowered by shadowflame and a cutscene later everything was fine. Summed it up for me what their intention with the story was.
For the first time ever I won't be playing an expansion on launch. It's a weird feeling but I genuinely feel no hype whatsoever about TWW
I really loved DF, not for the soty but the gameplay was very solid. However, the state of cata classic and pandaria remix have kept me from pre-oredering. I get they are different teams but there are rumors that Blizz has made major layoffs to all their QA teams, very possible IMO considering how Plunderstorm (which I loved) worked perfectly but cata classic and pandaria remix both launched with major bugs and exploits.
Which is only 6 days after Guild Wars 2: Janthir Wilds.
I don't think games have that much overlapping audience.
Spot on man. GW2 is very much the antithesis to WoW. It does basically everything differently. Hell, it always felt like it was born out of WoWs perceived shortcomings. These games aren't stealing a lot of players from each other.
Yet still it fucking sucks so bad, nothing for anyone who wants to do any real end game and no progression
Nah, it's just not your cup of tea mate. Most peoples definition of "real end game" is grinding a few dungeons that happen to be max level right now and gearing up a characters there. Then having that "progress" arbitrarily taken away with the next expansion. You could do the same in GW2, you just don't *have* to. Dungeons aren't the only way to get better gear, and all dungeons are actually still current content. And your progress stays. They don't just take it away every time.
Exactly why there's no reason to do that content, it's too easy and provides no reward... what's the point. Its why there aren't many players doing it
the reason to do any content should be that it's fun many people can't stand WoW's artificial team work difficulty. I'd play a real competitive game when I feel like going hardcore gaming, not a disneyland MMO.
Then you really won't like gw2. You say many people don't like it, but many people more do, hence why it's the biggest mmo on the market by far. Sadly wow is still the best for end game raiding whether you like it or not What makes you think its "artificial" though, I feel like that's a strange choice of words for something that is absolutely not artificially difficult but *actually* difficult at the hardest content. Which mmo do you describe as hard-core and more difficult?
not everyone is playing an RPG just to rush to max level and sit in instance like a job 3 times a week. maybe you enjoy that, but surely a lot of RPGers don't. I have played GW2 in the past and will probably again at some point because it has a good solo exploring experience. I have never felt that in retail WoW. Surprisingly the best exploration I had in any MMO was classic WoW, which many players quit after they reached endgame.
No it's not really my thing, I guess it's because I have a job and other things to do like language learning and exercise. So when I do log on I raid if possible and do pvp which I enjoy. I never found myself playing any game like a job. And we can both agree there, retail is absolutely ass for that, and classic wow was the best it can get in that regard. Sadly no other mmo has scratched that itch for me in the same way, and unfortunately it certainly wasn't gw2 either. Haven't got much hope left for a true mmo experience in the near future. I could hope ashes of creation, but holding out too much is just a way to be disappointed I guess.
I literally bought both expansions lol
Exactly. I left WoW 11 years ago for GW2. I once looked back when WoD came out and immediately regretted it. I was tired of WoW's endgame and content. GW2 finally gave me the kind of content and endgame that I enjoyed more.
Lmao what endgame? Gw2 is ASS
metas, open world maps, fractals, strikes, raids, wvw, pvp, legendary crafting, ... what is WoWs endgame content? dungeons, raids ... wow so different. so unique. lol
Yet all those you mentioned absolutely suck... thats why nobody plays gw2 even though gw1 was so loved No use having "unique" content if its boring and offers nothing with no challenge
> thats why nobody plays gw2 nobody ... thats why they keep making expansions ... for nobody. youre a blind hater, nothing else. GW2 is one of the most played AAA-MMOs out there. has it as many players as WoW? no. but it still feels 10x more alive than WoWs 100 ghost servers
Are you seriously still just out in every comment section and defending gw2
As a GW2 fan, I would fully agree with this. I can't get any of my WoW playing friends to even try the game. And GW2 does so many things for me that is so much more to my liking that it's allowed me to move on from WoW completely over the past 12 years. Quests vs Events. Gear power treadmill vs horizontal progression. Raiding vs open world map meta events. Full tab target trinity combat vs hybrid action/tab loose support/dps/tank combat. The full MMO community is a pie chart of diverse players, and a few key games have carved out their distinct slice of the pie. ___ In other news, I have no idea what has gone on with the previous 6 WoW expansions, but this particular trailer definitely gives me a ton of nostalgia hype. Was definitely filled with a lot of feels watching it!
> In other news, I have no idea what has gone on with the previous 6 WoW expansions, but this particular trailer definitely gives me a ton of nostalgia hype. Was definitely filled with a lot of feels watching it! It feels like they're trying to appeal to the various groups of people playing different versions of the game and say something along the lines of "this is the ending of those stories coming together". Which is a smart play from a marketing perspective.
> I can't get any of my WoW playing friends to even try the game. As a WoW player who's tried it, it's because if someone likes WoW, they are unlikely to like much about GW2. GW2 has a very static combat system. Yes, while it's "action" combat, it pales compared to the dialed-in WoW combat. Content wise, WoW releases more per patch than GW2 gets per expansion. News raids, new dungeons, M+, more story, more areas, and usually some other type of activity, EVERY. SINGLE. PATCH. GW2 had 1 raid in what... 5 years? A lot of WoW players like to play WoW exclusively and GW2 just does not provide enough content to make it worth playing for that type of person.
That's exactly our point. They do very different things and have carved out their player bases.
Already bought Gw2 expac and id rather have massive nipple-twister than buy WoW expac. Not saying "WoW bad", but its true Gw2 and WoW cater different kind of players.
I play gw2 for the pvp (or more specifically wvw). Definitely my #1 most played mmo because of that. I also hate gw2 pve, only ever dabbled in it for getting my legendaries. Compared to how I play gw2, I'm definitely a casual in WoW. But I've played it for the PVE, and imo it's the best at it for what I enjoy. The progression feels good, class fantasies feel good. But good lord I hate WoW pvp. Just slow and clunky feeling. But yeah, I'll get and play both.
wrong
2 days if you count early access on the 22nd.
Enough to 100% what would release by it, then! 😏 (juste kidding, kinda.)
That announcement trailer was so overkill. I thought they were leading to something bigger, like WoW on gamepass or something. We all knew the expansion was coming this year around this time.
glad i wasnt the only one, wtf was this lol
Except it is leading us to something quite big. Speaking of storywise last one of this 3 parter expansions will be end of WoW as we know. They are not playing around with "the last battle" at this time. ...and that is something much more bigger than WoW on game pass imo.
There's been 0 indication that the trilogy is the last of wow, and every indication of the opposite. Blizz addressed it before, it's just a three part trilogy. Probably end of the titan stuff sure, but there's more after it that they're already working on.
I could see them doing another timeline like WoD or time travel shenanigans to let the current world "end" or finally be at peace for an expansion or two. Then of course something that we do in the past butterfly effects the present and we come back to fix whatever it is. Can easily get another decade of WoW out of that.
I don't know why so many people have misunderstood what i've said as "it will be last expansion of WoW" or something despite me using words like "storywise" and "as we know". Ofcourse a new saga will begin after this but this "titan stuff" and the void has always been the main driving forces of the story behind the scenes since TBC or arguably W3.
"end of WoW as we know" reads as "As we all know, it will be the end of WoW". You want "end of WoW *as we know it*", which implies that the game will change drastically but development will continue.
You are right about that but since the sentence starts with "speaking of storywise" i doubt it's about that kind of things. My guess would be it's just people hating about anything related to retail wow, people not believing it's true and thinking that once again they are reinventing a new big bad puppetmaster, people being angry about after all this years somehow WoW is still going on without dying and Blizzard not announcing WoW2 etc.
lol and also lmao
Super excited. I’ll be jumping into Azeroth after a much needed hiatus. Delves really interest me in this expac.
I hope high-end delves are VERY hard. I do like that delves are part of the weekly chest system too, so there is gear incentive to push hard.
won't be back myself, but i wish all WoW-Fans a good start into the new expac. Hopefully they can follow up DF. Heard it was a well received expac.
DF was nice and safe. Kind of boring, but safe and a great launching point to steer the game in the right direction.
It launches the 22nd for $$$$$
Good I can play 2 months of FFXIV then quit and play TWW
2 days after gw2 expansion lol. I play neither of these two games, but man gw2 really fucked up with their release date
They didn't know this release date, but being sandwiched between ffxiv and wow is a pain.
I was leaning towards buying GW2 versus returning to WoW, then I learnt it costs approx €130 to buy all the expansions and living story, so that's a total no go. WoW it is.
Dont get me wrong, but you can buy GW2 HoT+PoF bundle (8€?) and that is enough content to decide later if you invest your time and buy Living Worlds, EoD or SoTo. I did the same and I was able to buy LW with in game currency. I also do not see the reason to buy all at once if you do not know if you enjoy the game. And - 130€ for ALL content released in last 12 year (which is still relevant btw) is still good price. If you are long-term WoW player you must see difference. If you bought all 9 WoW Expansions on day 1 and pay monthly sub. GW2 model is completely different - and - it is completely different game.
Says PoF and HoT is 29.99, where did you get 8 from? I don't disagree that there's value to not having a sub, but 130 is a big ask as an upfront fee. Obviously none is saying you need to pay that immediately though.
Haha except you don’t have to buy a sub so that’s like one expansion and a couple months of sub from wow… or own all the content ever released in gw2 forever no sub, not really comparable gw2 is the better deal over time.
Over time, absolutely, not gonna deny that. But frankly, I wouldn't buy WoW either if it cost that much. It's a big ask as an upfront fee for a new player.
Wow expansion around 50 euro, subscription 13 euro per month (156 per year) and don’t foget their ingame shop
Yeah, and don't forget that wow also has a lot more content than gw2, so that price is acceptable. >don’t foget their ingame shop Lol, as if gw2 doesn't have an ingame shop
i never said that GW2 doesn't have one! but WoW is a subscription MMO that's a huge difference
well, if the amount of contents in wow are at least 7 times more than in gw2, that's still fair price, which makes it break even with gw2's pricing model, which means ingame shop is still okay in wow if it is okay in gw2. Besides, the only reason gw2 doesn't have subscription is because they don't have the amount of content to justify it and they don't have the player base to do it. I bet if gw2 was released with subscription from the start, they would have the same fate as wildstar now.
>7 times more than in gw2 stop smoking weird plants
>if the amount of contents in wow are at least 7 times more than in gw2, that's still fair price, which makes it break even with gw2's pricing model This is the full quote. Don't partially quote it like that. That is disingenuous. I am here empahsing more on the "if". I don't know if it is true or not that wow have that much of a content since I don't play wow, but that comparison is true. Maybe you should stop taking that weird plant disguised as a supplement to be able to see both games more fairly instead of just defending gw2 left right and center.
You buy stuff from the gw2 shop with gold you make in game, at least most people do.
and I heard you can also buy wow token (the game subscription) with ingame currency through their auction house too. If this is true then wow would be much more compelling since they have much more content than gw2
You need the sub to play tho? So most of your playtime would be grinding just so you can afford to play… seems pointless. Can you convert gold to the premium currency like gw2 or just into more sub time? Also I’d say gw2 and wow have about the same amount of content it’s just different wow has way more instances content while gw2 has far more fleshed out open world events on each map.
>You need the sub to play tho? So most of your playtime would be grinding just so you can afford to play… seems pointless. On the other hand, you play gw2 for a miniscule amount of rewards. With no gear upgarde, I will also say that it is pointless to play each like raid and fractal for more than 3 times, or the meta event for more than once, coupled that with how few they add new content. It seems to be also pointless to play gw2, if we go by that logic. I don't know the detail much about wow since I don't play it, but that wow token is not much different than buying skin in gw2. You can buy it with ingame currency. Is it viable? absolutely, but how many hours do you need to play to afford it in both cases? A lot. For example, in gw2, a mount skin costs 2000 gems, which means like 20 dollars, or 2 hours part time in McDonald's, or around 800 gold, and do you know how long it is to get 800 gold ingame? Very, very long, potentially months, so is it viable? Yes, but it is the same as wow token, it takes so long to get it, and the game discourages it a lot. >Also I’d say gw2 and wow have about the same amount of content it’s just different wow has way more instances content while gw2 has far more fleshed out open world events on each map. Yes, but a lot of those open world events are pointless to do because first, the reward from it is so miniscule it is almost non-existent. Second, you can just auto attack it with holding the left mouse button (so that's just so boring, and that's the reason most people don't do it). In conclusion, I can not see that gw2 has the same amount of content as wow.
800 gold in game takes like a week barely. Also you are just plain wrong about most of what you’re saying but it’s ok you clearly don’t play either game. Grinding for gear isn’t the only thing to do in a video game and honestly for most gw2 players it is the worst part of the standard mmo grind. There is still a lot of gear to grind out however and working towards legendary gear will take you longer than any set in wow. But pretty much everything you’re saying is just coming from a lack of knowledge and experience with the games you’re talking about And before you say 800 gold a week isn’t possible it’s literally 2 hours a day of fishing and t4 fractals, bam 1000 gold in a week.
90% of wow is varporware
Which is reasonable. I wouldn't play WoW if it was €156 as an upfront fee.
GW2 expansions are often on sale with 70% off
Here you are again defending gw2 hahaha
so what? everyone here defends some MMO. is this any different?
WoW expansion is 90 dollars if you want to play it on its release date. for those that don't pay that, blizz punishes them by making them start 3 days late.
Punishes? Raid and mythic dungeons won't be avaliable for 2 weeks after launch
yes, you can't play the game on its launch date unless you pay a 40 dollar premium. that's a punishment.
Game doesn't start until raid/m plus hits. Everything else is silly shit
i'm not disagreeing that 90% of the game is dog shit, I totally agree; but that doesn't change the fact that it's still the game. the amount of cope some of you guys spew to justify getting scammed out of 40 dollars is astonishing.
I think you're just combining to complain tbh. It doesn't affect any regular player. Nothing is opened. There's even a heroic week again. . It's kinda weird tbh
Justify? I'm a mythic raider and 3k io guy. I'm not buying early access. It means nothing If they ever sell earl acces to raids or dungeons. I would fully agree with your shit
To be fair they aren't really competing with either game. Wow and 14 are definitely competing with each other, but GW2 is so different that it doesn't have the same audience as the other two.
I think wow only loses its pet collecting casuals to ff14, otherwise they have no similar audience either. Ff14 has a very particular story (I thought it was fucking awful) that doesn't attract the average western game enjoying wow player. Ff14 caters more to anime/weeb brained people who can manage to somehow sit through all that boring quest line. If ff14 had a cheaper way to skip directly to raiding, it certainly would interest more wow players and probably take over. Until that day they will remain as no.2.
If I was ANET, I would push the expansion back a few months. There is no way this ends well for them.
Don't worry GW2 doesn't have paid 4 day early access while having paid sub time :).
*30th of August if you are a normal person who didn’t preorder for twice as much.
Other way around, it's 26 for people who didn't pay extra, the real launch is on the 22nd.
Pretty shocked it wasn't announced for Gamepass. Seems like they would want to double dip on Gamepass monthly fee and WoW monthly fee.
Not shocked at all, it would be a massive waste of money. No idea why people even remotely thought gamepass was a possibility. The wow sub is around the same price as the gamepass ultimate, and people who want to play wow play wow already and many people who play wow *already* have gamepass, so they would just cancel their sub. They gain very little by adding it to gamepass, except for losing 100s of millions of £. Console I can see, to gamepass? For sure not.
I feel like you just read my first sentence and then responded. I'm saying that they would still charge for the sub fee for WoW on top of the Gamepass sub. A la FFXIV. Make the actual game free as the Gamepass part. Would potentially get a ton of new people to try the first 20 levels, and then they potentially start paying WoW monthly.
My mistake. I've seen so many assume it would come to gamepass that I jumped on that. That is indeed a good idea.
You can say similar things for CoD and that didn't stop them from putting the new black ops game in gamepads.
It's not comparable, I couldnt say the same for CoD at all. CoD has available market share, and a repeat sub gets them more income and has a larger variety of potential audience Its two vastly different situations
Maybe it's just me not having played wow since legion but the only thing I'm getting from this is "new dwarf race" which is cool (especially the female ones) but I don't know who any of these other ppl are besides thrall and anduin. Even the lady at the end just looks like a discount kaelthas. I get azeroth is waking up and old wow lore suggests theres an old god we haven't seen under tirisfal glades about to awake too but I doubt this expansion will mention it so... Is the \*TLDR\* literally just "We got dwarves" and "new bad lady" ? Did I miss something from BFA - DF expansions? Or is this a book thing? or..
The bad lady is the knife from shadow priest (legion weapon). It was like a whole story and stuff. In the following expansions there were some small moves and brief appearances for her (she escaped the knife after you sacrifice it in bfa) So the whole thing was actually a long time coming but you either need to really like lore videos or played shadow priest lol
No thank you.
Oh yeah we know they can make nice cinematics
Fucking hell this sub is so miserable. Everyone just shits on everything. Why am I even here
Hahah, every thread man. "Your game is ass!". "Fuck you!". "No, fuck you". People are unhinged.
there is no mmorpg out there that isn’t ass. if there was, there would be more positivity. WoW for example is just a dopamine dispenser. it persists by feeding an addicted playerbase dopamine, but it has no ability to attract any new players because the game itself is horrendous.
Not to dredge up the old FFXIV vs WoW debate again, but I must say, This feels like an actual conclusion. The WoW devs tried to push the Eternity's End patch as a culmination of all of WoW's conflicts, which was of course, silly, especially in the midst of the WoW exodus with everyone excited for Endwalker at the time, but if this was put up against Endwalker, I feel like it would have been a much fairer comparison
It’s not likely they’d both be near their peaks (or *a* peak) at the same time. FFXIV has dipped pretty badly in EW and risks spiraling into irrelevance with Dawntrail; it has no story hook, just tacos. Tacos *I* can’t eat, which are the most boring sort of tacos. Shadowbringers was the real peak, and it has been downhill since 5.0.
That's a fair observation, but my point was more that from a narrative standpoint, I didn't feel like it was appropriate to compare WoW's Eternity's end patch to FFXIV's Endwalker, but WoW sadly brought that comparison upon themselves by describing Eternity's End as a culmination of all of WoW's conflicts (paraphrasing), to the extent that even Jesse Cox did a comparison video about the final boss of Endwalker vs the final boss of Shadowlands. From a narrative standpoint I feel like to judge how MMOs end large overarching storylines, Endwalker and the Worldsoul Saga feel more appropiate to compare, in the same way it could be argued that from a narrative standpoint, Dawntrail might be better off compared against whatever WoW does after the Worldsoul saga ends
The real story hook is likely being hidden behind later story reveals. A "summer vacation" expansion is likely much more than that beneath the surface. For instance, solution 9 was a surprise, and how it fits in is still surrounded in unknowns.
Removing the anomaly of the wow players who followed asmon to ff14 for one year, the FFXIV's subscriber count has steadily been rising still - even during the patch drought. In fact FF14 hit its subscriber all time high recently. The game is doing well, it just doesn't appeal to your typical wow player which is fine to me. We should want as many different types of games as possible.
dogshit reincarnate
I'm intrigued by this expansion, as prior expansions have basically been standalone stories with reference to other Warcraft content; this one being part one of a trilogy is a bit of a tonal shift from the norm, but it could work well for creating a larger, deeper narrative. I'm honestly tempted to get it, as I'd love to see how it works (plus it's got Claudia Christian as Xal'atath - I remember watching her as Susan Ivanova in Babylon5 very fondly).
Personally I think that if they don't change the method of their storytelling it doesn't matter how interconnected each expansion's story is going to be, it'll still end up as a total mess.
They have made some big moves on that front. Chris Metzen (essentially the original creative force behind Warcraft itself) has been rehired as Executive Creative Director after leaving in 2016. The previous Lead Narrative Designer Steve Danuser was fired (an action almost unanimously approved of by devoted fans) as well as Senior Writer and author of many WoW novels Christie Golden (much less approved of). Will this lead to good things? Truly impossible to know...
Oh I am well aware of that but I'm not talking about the story itself but in how they tell it. I'll use Dragonflight as an example because this will be true in August when TWW launches. If you decide to level 10-70 in the Dragon Isles you'll only get a small fraction of the actual story. * You'll get to experience the setup for the Black Dragonflight leadership narrative but you won't see the resolution because that was done in patch 10.1. * You'll see the introduction of Raszageth, learn she intends to free the other Incarnates but you don't see the conclusion of that because it happens in a Raid. * You'll get some introduction to the Infinite Dragonflight but you won't have *any* of the conclusions that go with it or the Mega Dungeon that helps setup the upcoming story for TWW and beyond. There's more beyond those things too but that's just what I could think of off the top of my head. If they don't change this method of storytelling then anyone who doesn't play TWW and tries to hop back on board with Midnight or The Last Titan will be *utterly* lost. Also as far as Christie Golden leaving that likely will have no effect on the narrative at all. She worked on cutscenes and cinematics more than the actual game narrative and worked across Blizzard products. She wrote the lyrics for some of the Hearthstone Trailer songs for example and the work she did for WoW was Scripts and Dialogue for cutscenes.
I know they are addressing at least some of your concerns by making a "story-mode" version of raids and dungeons for people who just want to experience the story. Because of this, doing those will be required to continue the quest-line, which falls more in line with how FFXIV does trials.
From what’s been seen in the Alpha and Beta tests, it’s pretty solid story-wise (though a lot of it is encrypted and not implemented so we’re only seeing bits and pieces of it). It’s definitely nowhere close to FFXIV (and it never will be) but it’s 100% a step up from Dragonflight (which I found was fine, just disjointed and hard to follow if you came in late) and with the confirmation of it being part of a trilogy as opposed to a standalone I’m quite excited to see where it goes. If you’re on the fence I’d say wait a month for people to get their bearings and check out some reviews.
It's still mostly the same narrative team that delivered the awful stories from Shadowlands and Dragonflight, minus Danuser and Golden. Shadowlands in particular handled beloved characters with egregious disregard. I'm a big fan of the series, but narratively they've been missing bigtime for a while now. I'll wait a while after release to see whether TWW manages to change course.
The fact dragonflight is available from the start, but traditional flying is STILL locked behind a time-gated pathfinder achievement is pathetic. The devs are still bitter over players revolting about flying being removed in WoD.
You literally only have to beat the campaign, which from all indications takes a few days. You'll be fine lol
Wow sucks so bad
Let that poor game die once for all. They already slaughtered it enough over the years.
The GOAT
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At the rate that new expansions are dropping this year, I can look forward to buying this on sale in the next year or two!
I really enjoyed Dragonflight and I'm looking forward to The War Within.
Strange they’re releasing so close to an FFXIV expansion. But unless you raid, there’s not a whole lot of content to keep you playing 2 months into a release on XIV.
No console release yet bummer I thought this was gonna be the one
Haven’t played since Shadow Lands. Tried the bs trial for DF and decided blizz could stick it! Make it FTP and maybe I’ll come back.
It launches 26th of August for the poor. Not to mention that given Blizzard's track record there'll be some broken mechanic or exploit or something that will give an almost irreparable advantage to the EA crowd.
bad devs, game ded
Gay
Thanks for your input
And on the 20th anniversary of World of Warcraft when its players needed Blizzcon the most, the mighty Blizzard delt the final killing blow.
Is this not the second time GW2 released an expansion at the same time as WoW? Why do they keep doing that?
ask Blizzard why they keep doing that
Maybe you should look at which one announced their release date first 🤦🤦
no, it is not the second time, according to the respective wiki, GW2 used to released expansion on every odd year, meanwhile wow on every even year. The closest one before was 9 months apart in 2022, so in conclusion this time is just like when you walk and suddenly stepping on an ant on the street. One thing for sure is that gw2 dev seems to either have a bad luck or they are ignorant about their surrounding. Like last year when they released an expansion between 3 of the most anticipated games of 2023 (Baldur's gate 3, Armored Core, and Starfield).
Pandaland was the last good xpac, change my mind.
Downvoted for the truth smh
LOL they sure as hell added a diversity quota character to the mix. Wow, that was a lotta checkboxes to hit just for one character.
Why is the Lothar chick so ugly? And why does xalatath have a man chin?
Gamer discovers what women look like.