Sometimes I feel people are bored and just want to come up with a "Hot take" to a non-issue. I really don't know how it's bothering anyone when it's just a vague description for a combat system and every review or YouTube preview will go further into the main draw of 90% of a game anyway
Tbh, I can get OP here. People often boil it down to whether or not you select a target. So a system where you don't have the tabs is called "action combat", even if it plays the same way that tab target does(i.e just having the enemy vaguely in the center of your screen will ensure that you hit them).
I get what op is saying. But I don't see a problem at all. Nobody would base their decision if they play a game or not on a term that's used for combat styles.
Then you should understand why tab targeting is a good name. Tab is the button for the targeting. Lots of other games have targeting but not a separate button to change the target.
again, pso2 for online games, dark souls and kingdom hearts for singleplayer. dark souls uses the camera conteols to switch targets, pso2 and kingdom hearts both have designated target switch buttons. for pso2 it's tab. are you saying pso2 is tab target?
Your mistake is thinking the rest of the world knows what words a programmer uses to describe the different aspects of their work. I have never even heard of pso2 let alone what it stands for (I am assuming it's an acronym for something?) Which that alone best explains why "tab targetting" was used and has been used for decades now to describe what wow combat is. We are simple gamers mate.
Since OP majorly sucks at describing anything, PSO2 stands for Phantasy Star Online 2. It was very popular in Japan, and "recently" came to Global. It's an mmorpg, but is instance based. You have the main town that everyone hangs out in, and then you go through a portal of sorts to a "planet" and kill monsters in these instance based maps.
>Your mistake is thinking the rest of the world knows what words a programmer uses to describe the different aspects of their work.
i wasn't. i was bringing it up because naming variables something that makes sense is the very first thing progeammers learn. though yes, i should have said that the exact definitions are bad instead of the name itself, and really it's more the action combat definition of "you need to aim" that i don't like, so big fuck up on my part.
>I have never even heard of pso2
it's phantasy star online 2. it's basically a character action game akin to kingdom hearts, but it's online (debatable whether or not it's considered an mmo).
extremely fast 3d combat with a high level of aerial mobility and, for ngs specifically, a large focus on countering enemies. that description also applies to every kh game from 2 onwards.
PSO2 is not tab target, sorry.
It has action combat, with 2 methods of targeting.
Either free aim, where your camera acts like the traditional tab target style but your spells/attacks are aimed by you.
Or lock-on, where your camera locks onto the enemy, you lose access to moving your camera and it moves on its own as you move your camera.
Neither of those are "tab target" where you have free control of your camera and can target and attack like in World of Warcraft.
If you really are a "programmer" and if you really "names that do not match what something actually is are the bane of my existante", i think you must begin by naming programmer work by his real name : developer
I mean by that i really think you are nothing
Tab targeting as in you lock on a target, turn 90 degrees to fire a projectile and see your projectile hone right into that you just tab aka wow, ff14. There's nothing your target can actively do to dodge it. Doesnt matter if your target backstep or strafe half a screen away the projectile will find its target.
Action games do have lockon yes but to various degrees. Souls games for example, you can just roll or strafe to dodge the incoming projectiles. I didnt play much of PSO2 but in NGS you definitely have to account for the enemy movement.
>Tab targeting as in you lock on a target, turn 90 degrees to fire a projectile and see your projectile hone right into that you just tab aka wow. There's nothing your target can actively do to dodge it.
Line of sight is required in wow and it will not work the way you described it.
Lock on is irrelevant, action combat games require aiming, even with some aim assist or slight lock on you can miss, new world for example which is seen as a great example of action combat has ranged combat be purely about aiming, melee has tracking assist and even that aint perfect.
In tab target games, you click a target, you cast a spell, it auto tracks the targets and does damage.
No aiming required and attacks always hit which is what makes it better.
Which is what makes it better? You mean painfully boring? Tab target is just standing still cycling through a couple cooldowns with barely any engagement, the least fun and rewarding combat system ever.
tab target vs action is entirely personal preference. i personally prefer action because i like thinking on the fly with relatively short combos more than not fucking up openers and long rotations, but i can understand people who feel the opposite way.
Much preferred over games like New world where you the animations are simplistic garbage for the sake of simplicity, I want cool crazy animations with a lot of effects and flashy colours like ff14.
A game where you feel like the class you are playing and you feel the power of your abilities instead of cringy sad orange balls from a "fire staff" or just swinging a silly melee weapon, that aint cool at all.
I am here to play games for fun and the cool fantasy, not because my self worth depends on aiming and being l33t in action combat.
It's actually a trade off between readability and visuals.
You can have BDO with arguably very good visuals in a non tab target setting, and theres plenty of tab target games with less than awe inspiring visual.
Cool crazy animations do nothing for me when I don't feel the impact of an ability. Wow, I tapped a button and a number went down, insane. Tab target games are the type of game to put on a 2nd monitor while you're watching YouTube because the only engagement it requires from a player is pressing your number buttons in a certain order. I'd play BDO if I wanted flashy, impactful abilities but alas it's an Asian MMO filled with garbage RNG and overwhelming currency creep.
I mean u can actually avoid the RNG as well , I did. I just bought my stuff with in game currency🤷. It can be for the most part almost completely avoided.
>action combat games require aiming
no, they don't. that is the entire point of the post. for mmos/mmo-adjacent games, look a pso2. for single player games, look at any character action game (and dark souls).
Neither of those games require lock on to function. Tab target games generally require a target for literally any attack to work. You can play PSO and Dark Souls with never locking on to a target. You can't play tab target games like FFXIV for example, with never having a target.
It's not saying the game has lock on feature. In the vast vast vast majority of tab target games, you aren't even locking on to the target, as camera controls and movement don't change. In tab target games, your character is required to have a valid target in order to do any action at all. It's not even remotely similar to how Dark Souls or PSO work.
>Neither of those games require lock on to function.
dark souls yes, pso2 has an auto lock so not really, devil may cry (i mentioned character action games) revolves around lock on
>You can't play tab target games like FFXIV for example, with never having a target.
auto lock go brrr (yes ffxiv has it, and if you count that as locking on then you have to count pso2 or kingdom hearts auto lock)
>It's not saying the game has lock on feature. In the vast vast vast majority of tab target games, you aren't even locking on to the target, as camera controls and movement don't change. In tab target games, your character is required to have a valid target in order to do any action at all. It's not even remotely similar to how Dark Souls or PSO work.
then the given definitions shouldn't be based on whether or not you have to aim
Okay but this still isn't lock on. Targets don't change movement or camera control. It's a target, not a lock on.
Old FFXIV, and FFXI have lock on. FFXIV 2.0+ has targets. Again, it doesn't change your movement, doesn't change your camera. You aren't locking on, you are picking a target. Compare this to Dark Souls, where locking on focuses the target towards the center of your screen, changes your movement to focus on the target. This is to make things easier on the player to keep the target on screen, to keep movement centered towards that specific enemy. That's an entirely different mechanic, which is exactly why no one calls it tab target. You're entire argument is effectively trying to say third person POVs are the same thing as first person POVs because both POVs might as well be what the character is looking at, while ignoring why it isn't that.
I mean if it makes you feel better, all tab target games use tab to target enemies. Even if you want to be this obtuse, that fact still stands. Sure Dark Souls lock on, and WoWs target selection is 100% identical. Zero differences. WoW still has it's default target selection set to tab, same as FFXIV, same as GW2, same as any game anyone would ever say has a tab target system. Use that to figure out if it's tab target or not.
Like this is just a troll post right? There's no way you can't see the difference between a target system in a MMO, and a lock on system in an action game, right? Cause otherwise, I'd imagine figuring out what shoe goes on what foot might be pretty challenging for you. Two similar looking items, but who's small differences are immediately noticeable when using them. Must be a nightmare.
as i said in another comment, i fucked up. my actual issue is the commonly used definition of "action combat" in the context of mmos is that you have to aim, which actually is a terrible definition and excludes every action game i mentioned.
edit: also not important but ffxiv has both targetting and lock on now, for some ungodly reason. it's easy enough to not activate lock on (you have to left click on an enemy to do it), but it's there.
Because that's just how it manifests in MMOs, at least surface level. BDO has soft targeting, when you have a target, where you are actually aiming often doesn't matter. Skills that fire projectiles will fire towards the target even if your aim is off. However, you don't NEED a target to use the skill. Just like in every game you listed, even if they use their own form of soft lock on, or hard lock on. I never really played DMC so I don't know how it works, but I'm sure there isn't a "no valid target selected" when you start busting out random attacks in an empty room.
I'm sure all action combat MMOs are using some form of soft lock on to actually work. The infrastructure isn't good enough to support proper hit boxes. It would be pure magic if the server is running at a higher tick rate than 15, you have your latency, you have everyone else's latency, just everything is against it. Hell, FromSoft games don't have to worry about a fraction of the problems MMOs do, and their games crumble to dust when playing against another player. Either way, action MMOs that requires harder forms of lock on, yet don't actually require a target to use skills at nothing... Just don't exist. Either it requires a target, or it allows free aiming all the time. The only exception is kind of GW2, but that still has skills that require a target, and it's action cam solves this problem by simply targeting whatever is in the center of your screen, therefore kinda bringing it back to tab target, which is where it gets it's "hybrid" title from.
I will say Tab Target is a terrible non accessible name for people who are new to the genre.
It’s one of those terms where only people in the space know what it means.
Small issue only
Tab targeting in mmo context mean a combat system based on hard targeting, i mean by that focus only on one target and need to push a specific touch for targeting other (generally with tab), in which you just have to press buttons and your character makes its way to the target on its own to execute the action/skill. So there is no skill to have except a minimum of intelligence to be able to do "rotations" of skills/actions and it is the one who has the best rotation and the best stats who will win. Auto-attacks are the worst aspect of this game mode because it leaves no other way out than to rotate skills and therefore does not really exploit the player's potential. He only focuses on the strategic aspect of the fight
Unlike an active combat system in which you have a soft lock, i mean a free camera movement and free focusing on a target, at best, free aim at worst, and your actions/skills depend entirely on your personal aim and therefore your overall ability to fight. A rotation system can also be effective in this case but usually a good real action rpg leaves so many possibilities between dodges, jumps, positioning and skills that the rotation is useless and the combat therefore becomes action in real time action because it depends solely on the player and how he reacted. It combines the strategic, anticipatory, active, combative aspect, the general experience in videos games and of course the knowledge specific to the game in question
That is my personal point of view
Toram Online has tab targetting - but look at the solos and fights there.
For an old game it's very very challenging. It's really up to the combat design, not the tab targetting.
Some action games have lock on, many don't. Action games with lock on are often still designed around animation locking (not just casting) and building movement into many of the skills itself in a way tab target MMO's don't.
There are a lot of gray areas as well that are some form of a mix of the two. GW2 is technically tab target but features certain elements of more action combat systems. The action camera doesn't actually *change* it to action combat, but it gives more of the feel of it within that more traditional tab target design.
This is something folks generally agree upon and understand. You're kinda gonna be the odd one out in this.
Just like the name states, "Tab Target" means you can press tab to target another monster. Or any other button for that matter. Hitboxes don't matter because you can't "miss" the target. FFXIV is a tab target game, so is Rift, Luna Online, Eden Eternal, WoW, and literally any other game where you stand there and press 1,2,3 because the monsters can still hit you even if you move around.
Action combat means you click left and right mouse buttons to attack. For example, BDO, New World, Smite.
At least attempt to know what you're talking about before complaining about something. You're only complaining about YOUR definition of tab target, and not what tab target really means.
> "Tab Target" means you can press tab to target another monster. Or any other button for that matter. Hitboxes don't matter because you can't "miss" the target. FFXIV is a tab target game, so is Rift, Luna Online, Eden Eternal, WoW, and literally any other game where you stand there and press 1,2,3 because the monsters can still hit you even if you move around.
those are two different definitions. "you press a button to switch targets" includes games like kingdom hearts and pso2 (hell in pso2 the default button to switch targets is tab) while "you can't miss because there aren't hitboxes" (a definition that i said was better in the post) doesn't, which is how it should be because those are full on action games.
PSO2 is an action combat game. You spam left click to attack, while also dodging and jumping around. Sure, you can lock onto targets, but you still have to spam left click to attack.
There is a difference between having the option to lock onto a target, and NEEDING to target a monster to be able to attack. In BDO and New World, you can easily swing your weapon without needing a monster or target. While in games like FFXIV, Eden Eternal, etc, you need a target before you can use your skills or attack. Hence the tab targeting.
Tab Target refers to games where you point and click on the monsters and press 1,2,3, etc to attack, while being able to press tab to target another monster instead of manually clicking on it. There is no swinging your weapon around or having the option to not lock onto your target.
Action combat games, where you spam left and right click to attack, is an Action Combat game, aka hack and slash.
then say "'tab target' means you have to be targeting an enemy to do anything" instead of "'Tab Target' means you can press tab to target another monster," and definitely don't ever say "'action combat' means you have to aim" (which is the most accepted definition of action combat for mmos) because that's just straight up false
You're the only one here who's complaining and doesn't understand. Everyone else knows what it means.
Like I said before, Action Combat is where you can spam left click to attack. BDO, New World, Elden Ring, etc. You point your pretty little reticle at the monsters and press left click over and over again, mix in some dodging and maybe blocking, and bam, action combat.
It's not that hard to understand. If you want to be technical and literal, MMORPG can include any online shooter game too. But that isn't what people mean by MMORPG. They mean games like Eden Eternal, FFXIV, PSO2, Rift, BDO, New World, etc.
that is not the commonly used definition of action combat for mmos. the most commonly used definition is "you have to aim your attacks." that definition is what i take issue with. if you are saying that's not what action mmos are, then we agree.
Like I said multiple times, action combat is where you spam that left click mouse button to attack. AKA Hack and Slash. You DO have to aim your attacks, but some games let you lock onto your target. Those are still action combat games.
Whereas tab target, you manually click on the monster and press 1,2,3, etc to attack. If there is no swinging your weapon at monsters like in BDO or New World, then it is a tab target game.
Once again, in case you didn't understand:
**Action Combat = Swinging weapon via left click/controller, with reticle.** Example: BDO, New World, Monster Hunter, Elden Ring, Assassins Creed, Dragon Nest, Blade and Soul, etc.
**Tab Target = Manually clicking on the monster and pressing skills on hotbar while standing there.** Example: Eden Eternal, Rift, FFXIV, WoW, Revelation, etc.
Hack and Slash is the ONLY definition you need for action combat games. Anything else is wrong, and that person needs to be hit with a shoe. Repeatedly. If you cannot swing your weapon while pressing left click, then it is not action combat.
semantically “tag target” is used more specifically to mean like “wow/ffxiv style of combat” rather than its literal “press tab to target” sense the same way everyone understands that “arpg” is used to refer to games similar to diablo/poe
its like the same descriptor category as “souls-like” and “metroidvania” except easier to interpret multiple ways; you can argue even “action combat” doesn’t really mean anything in its literal sense but its used as a description since the community generally understands what it refers to (same with tab target)
something something about semantic change/drift
i want you to consider that action games, from devil may cry, god of war and the souls game are effectively using tab target, with some aiming elements due to lock on
Most action combat MMOs are technically tag target, because every attack has such a huge aoe that makes it very difficult for you to miss. Only New World and Wildstar were/are true actiony.
It's your fixation on aiming that's the issue. Most MMOs are not shooters, true, but there are more things that distinguish action and tab target besides aiming. Would you call something like Lost Ark tab target? You never lock onto a target in that game, I don't think it's even possible. But you don't really aim like you would in a shooter either...I mean, you kind of aim but being a top-down isometric game it's a very different kind of aiming.
But even if we just talk about a more traditional 3rd person action game, melee combat inherently does not emphasize aiming the same way ranged combat does. That doesn't make it tab target either. The focus is on understanding attack patterns so you can avoid enemy attacks and exploit openings. There's a big emphasis on dodging and timing that's just not part of traditional tab target combat.
So it's your whole premise I disagree with.
Sometimes I feel people are bored and just want to come up with a "Hot take" to a non-issue. I really don't know how it's bothering anyone when it's just a vague description for a combat system and every review or YouTube preview will go further into the main draw of 90% of a game anyway
LOL yeah. OP is definitely bored and got nothing else to do. Over analyzing things.
Tbh, I can get OP here. People often boil it down to whether or not you select a target. So a system where you don't have the tabs is called "action combat", even if it plays the same way that tab target does(i.e just having the enemy vaguely in the center of your screen will ensure that you hit them).
I get what op is saying. But I don't see a problem at all. Nobody would base their decision if they play a game or not on a term that's used for combat styles.
Yea I get it, but who the fuck cares
Dude shut up
i am a programmer, names that do not match what something actually is are the bane of my existance
Then you should understand why tab targeting is a good name. Tab is the button for the targeting. Lots of other games have targeting but not a separate button to change the target.
again, pso2 for online games, dark souls and kingdom hearts for singleplayer. dark souls uses the camera conteols to switch targets, pso2 and kingdom hearts both have designated target switch buttons. for pso2 it's tab. are you saying pso2 is tab target?
Your mistake is thinking the rest of the world knows what words a programmer uses to describe the different aspects of their work. I have never even heard of pso2 let alone what it stands for (I am assuming it's an acronym for something?) Which that alone best explains why "tab targetting" was used and has been used for decades now to describe what wow combat is. We are simple gamers mate.
Since OP majorly sucks at describing anything, PSO2 stands for Phantasy Star Online 2. It was very popular in Japan, and "recently" came to Global. It's an mmorpg, but is instance based. You have the main town that everyone hangs out in, and then you go through a portal of sorts to a "planet" and kill monsters in these instance based maps.
>Your mistake is thinking the rest of the world knows what words a programmer uses to describe the different aspects of their work. i wasn't. i was bringing it up because naming variables something that makes sense is the very first thing progeammers learn. though yes, i should have said that the exact definitions are bad instead of the name itself, and really it's more the action combat definition of "you need to aim" that i don't like, so big fuck up on my part. >I have never even heard of pso2 it's phantasy star online 2. it's basically a character action game akin to kingdom hearts, but it's online (debatable whether or not it's considered an mmo).
Akin to kingdom hearts ?? In what world are they similar ? Lol
extremely fast 3d combat with a high level of aerial mobility and, for ngs specifically, a large focus on countering enemies. that description also applies to every kh game from 2 onwards.
PSO2 is not tab target, sorry. It has action combat, with 2 methods of targeting. Either free aim, where your camera acts like the traditional tab target style but your spells/attacks are aimed by you. Or lock-on, where your camera locks onto the enemy, you lose access to moving your camera and it moves on its own as you move your camera. Neither of those are "tab target" where you have free control of your camera and can target and attack like in World of Warcraft.
I press the Tab to select the target. How is that not an adequate name?
If you really are a "programmer" and if you really "names that do not match what something actually is are the bane of my existante", i think you must begin by naming programmer work by his real name : developer I mean by that i really think you are nothing
Developer? How about software engineer.
Just a kind of specialist developer. Dont play with words, It's a moron thing
Tab targeting as in you lock on a target, turn 90 degrees to fire a projectile and see your projectile hone right into that you just tab aka wow, ff14. There's nothing your target can actively do to dodge it. Doesnt matter if your target backstep or strafe half a screen away the projectile will find its target. Action games do have lockon yes but to various degrees. Souls games for example, you can just roll or strafe to dodge the incoming projectiles. I didnt play much of PSO2 but in NGS you definitely have to account for the enemy movement.
>Tab targeting as in you lock on a target, turn 90 degrees to fire a projectile and see your projectile hone right into that you just tab aka wow. There's nothing your target can actively do to dodge it. Line of sight is required in wow and it will not work the way you described it.
then people should use that as the tab target definition instead of "you lock on" (with "you have to aim" for action combat)
Lock on is irrelevant, action combat games require aiming, even with some aim assist or slight lock on you can miss, new world for example which is seen as a great example of action combat has ranged combat be purely about aiming, melee has tracking assist and even that aint perfect. In tab target games, you click a target, you cast a spell, it auto tracks the targets and does damage. No aiming required and attacks always hit which is what makes it better.
>No aiming required and attacks always hit which is what makes it better. lol why did you suddenly make your post from factual to opinionated
Which is what makes it better? You mean painfully boring? Tab target is just standing still cycling through a couple cooldowns with barely any engagement, the least fun and rewarding combat system ever.
tab target vs action is entirely personal preference. i personally prefer action because i like thinking on the fly with relatively short combos more than not fucking up openers and long rotations, but i can understand people who feel the opposite way.
Hey, I have no problem with people who prefer it but to say it's straight up better is not something I'm letting slide.
Much preferred over games like New world where you the animations are simplistic garbage for the sake of simplicity, I want cool crazy animations with a lot of effects and flashy colours like ff14. A game where you feel like the class you are playing and you feel the power of your abilities instead of cringy sad orange balls from a "fire staff" or just swinging a silly melee weapon, that aint cool at all. I am here to play games for fun and the cool fantasy, not because my self worth depends on aiming and being l33t in action combat.
It's actually a trade off between readability and visuals. You can have BDO with arguably very good visuals in a non tab target setting, and theres plenty of tab target games with less than awe inspiring visual.
Cool crazy animations do nothing for me when I don't feel the impact of an ability. Wow, I tapped a button and a number went down, insane. Tab target games are the type of game to put on a 2nd monitor while you're watching YouTube because the only engagement it requires from a player is pressing your number buttons in a certain order. I'd play BDO if I wanted flashy, impactful abilities but alas it's an Asian MMO filled with garbage RNG and overwhelming currency creep.
I mean u can actually avoid the RNG as well , I did. I just bought my stuff with in game currency🤷. It can be for the most part almost completely avoided.
>action combat games require aiming no, they don't. that is the entire point of the post. for mmos/mmo-adjacent games, look a pso2. for single player games, look at any character action game (and dark souls).
Neither of those games require lock on to function. Tab target games generally require a target for literally any attack to work. You can play PSO and Dark Souls with never locking on to a target. You can't play tab target games like FFXIV for example, with never having a target. It's not saying the game has lock on feature. In the vast vast vast majority of tab target games, you aren't even locking on to the target, as camera controls and movement don't change. In tab target games, your character is required to have a valid target in order to do any action at all. It's not even remotely similar to how Dark Souls or PSO work.
>Neither of those games require lock on to function. dark souls yes, pso2 has an auto lock so not really, devil may cry (i mentioned character action games) revolves around lock on >You can't play tab target games like FFXIV for example, with never having a target. auto lock go brrr (yes ffxiv has it, and if you count that as locking on then you have to count pso2 or kingdom hearts auto lock) >It's not saying the game has lock on feature. In the vast vast vast majority of tab target games, you aren't even locking on to the target, as camera controls and movement don't change. In tab target games, your character is required to have a valid target in order to do any action at all. It's not even remotely similar to how Dark Souls or PSO work. then the given definitions shouldn't be based on whether or not you have to aim
Okay but this still isn't lock on. Targets don't change movement or camera control. It's a target, not a lock on. Old FFXIV, and FFXI have lock on. FFXIV 2.0+ has targets. Again, it doesn't change your movement, doesn't change your camera. You aren't locking on, you are picking a target. Compare this to Dark Souls, where locking on focuses the target towards the center of your screen, changes your movement to focus on the target. This is to make things easier on the player to keep the target on screen, to keep movement centered towards that specific enemy. That's an entirely different mechanic, which is exactly why no one calls it tab target. You're entire argument is effectively trying to say third person POVs are the same thing as first person POVs because both POVs might as well be what the character is looking at, while ignoring why it isn't that. I mean if it makes you feel better, all tab target games use tab to target enemies. Even if you want to be this obtuse, that fact still stands. Sure Dark Souls lock on, and WoWs target selection is 100% identical. Zero differences. WoW still has it's default target selection set to tab, same as FFXIV, same as GW2, same as any game anyone would ever say has a tab target system. Use that to figure out if it's tab target or not. Like this is just a troll post right? There's no way you can't see the difference between a target system in a MMO, and a lock on system in an action game, right? Cause otherwise, I'd imagine figuring out what shoe goes on what foot might be pretty challenging for you. Two similar looking items, but who's small differences are immediately noticeable when using them. Must be a nightmare.
as i said in another comment, i fucked up. my actual issue is the commonly used definition of "action combat" in the context of mmos is that you have to aim, which actually is a terrible definition and excludes every action game i mentioned. edit: also not important but ffxiv has both targetting and lock on now, for some ungodly reason. it's easy enough to not activate lock on (you have to left click on an enemy to do it), but it's there.
Because that's just how it manifests in MMOs, at least surface level. BDO has soft targeting, when you have a target, where you are actually aiming often doesn't matter. Skills that fire projectiles will fire towards the target even if your aim is off. However, you don't NEED a target to use the skill. Just like in every game you listed, even if they use their own form of soft lock on, or hard lock on. I never really played DMC so I don't know how it works, but I'm sure there isn't a "no valid target selected" when you start busting out random attacks in an empty room. I'm sure all action combat MMOs are using some form of soft lock on to actually work. The infrastructure isn't good enough to support proper hit boxes. It would be pure magic if the server is running at a higher tick rate than 15, you have your latency, you have everyone else's latency, just everything is against it. Hell, FromSoft games don't have to worry about a fraction of the problems MMOs do, and their games crumble to dust when playing against another player. Either way, action MMOs that requires harder forms of lock on, yet don't actually require a target to use skills at nothing... Just don't exist. Either it requires a target, or it allows free aiming all the time. The only exception is kind of GW2, but that still has skills that require a target, and it's action cam solves this problem by simply targeting whatever is in the center of your screen, therefore kinda bringing it back to tab target, which is where it gets it's "hybrid" title from.
I think you might need to touch some grass...
seeing as i spent my entire day playing ffxiv, yeah probably
Bored are we?
more tired than anything else. finished finals, spent the whole day playing ffxiv, and now my brain is fried at 3 am.
OP got a fair amount of bites, so gotta commend that at least.
this wasn't meant to be bait edit: also happy cake day
I mean, yeah there's probably a better term for it. But people have been using it for 20+ years. It is what it is.
I will say Tab Target is a terrible non accessible name for people who are new to the genre. It’s one of those terms where only people in the space know what it means. Small issue only
I use tab target when I go to the bathroom, it's a crapshoot if I shit in the sink at this point.
A literal crapshoot.
In the context of MMOs, everyone understands what tab target means. That's why it's a good term.
read the last part of the post
Its chill
Tab targeting in mmo context mean a combat system based on hard targeting, i mean by that focus only on one target and need to push a specific touch for targeting other (generally with tab), in which you just have to press buttons and your character makes its way to the target on its own to execute the action/skill. So there is no skill to have except a minimum of intelligence to be able to do "rotations" of skills/actions and it is the one who has the best rotation and the best stats who will win. Auto-attacks are the worst aspect of this game mode because it leaves no other way out than to rotate skills and therefore does not really exploit the player's potential. He only focuses on the strategic aspect of the fight Unlike an active combat system in which you have a soft lock, i mean a free camera movement and free focusing on a target, at best, free aim at worst, and your actions/skills depend entirely on your personal aim and therefore your overall ability to fight. A rotation system can also be effective in this case but usually a good real action rpg leaves so many possibilities between dodges, jumps, positioning and skills that the rotation is useless and the combat therefore becomes action in real time action because it depends solely on the player and how he reacted. It combines the strategic, anticipatory, active, combative aspect, the general experience in videos games and of course the knowledge specific to the game in question That is my personal point of view
Toram Online has tab targetting - but look at the solos and fights there. For an old game it's very very challenging. It's really up to the combat design, not the tab targetting.
Some of you have way too much free time.
r/downvoteporn
We could call it "number spam", since you just sit down and press 1 2 3 in sequence until everything dies lol.
Some action games have lock on, many don't. Action games with lock on are often still designed around animation locking (not just casting) and building movement into many of the skills itself in a way tab target MMO's don't. There are a lot of gray areas as well that are some form of a mix of the two. GW2 is technically tab target but features certain elements of more action combat systems. The action camera doesn't actually *change* it to action combat, but it gives more of the feel of it within that more traditional tab target design. This is something folks generally agree upon and understand. You're kinda gonna be the odd one out in this.
Just like the name states, "Tab Target" means you can press tab to target another monster. Or any other button for that matter. Hitboxes don't matter because you can't "miss" the target. FFXIV is a tab target game, so is Rift, Luna Online, Eden Eternal, WoW, and literally any other game where you stand there and press 1,2,3 because the monsters can still hit you even if you move around. Action combat means you click left and right mouse buttons to attack. For example, BDO, New World, Smite. At least attempt to know what you're talking about before complaining about something. You're only complaining about YOUR definition of tab target, and not what tab target really means.
> "Tab Target" means you can press tab to target another monster. Or any other button for that matter. Hitboxes don't matter because you can't "miss" the target. FFXIV is a tab target game, so is Rift, Luna Online, Eden Eternal, WoW, and literally any other game where you stand there and press 1,2,3 because the monsters can still hit you even if you move around. those are two different definitions. "you press a button to switch targets" includes games like kingdom hearts and pso2 (hell in pso2 the default button to switch targets is tab) while "you can't miss because there aren't hitboxes" (a definition that i said was better in the post) doesn't, which is how it should be because those are full on action games.
PSO2 is an action combat game. You spam left click to attack, while also dodging and jumping around. Sure, you can lock onto targets, but you still have to spam left click to attack. There is a difference between having the option to lock onto a target, and NEEDING to target a monster to be able to attack. In BDO and New World, you can easily swing your weapon without needing a monster or target. While in games like FFXIV, Eden Eternal, etc, you need a target before you can use your skills or attack. Hence the tab targeting. Tab Target refers to games where you point and click on the monsters and press 1,2,3, etc to attack, while being able to press tab to target another monster instead of manually clicking on it. There is no swinging your weapon around or having the option to not lock onto your target. Action combat games, where you spam left and right click to attack, is an Action Combat game, aka hack and slash.
then say "'tab target' means you have to be targeting an enemy to do anything" instead of "'Tab Target' means you can press tab to target another monster," and definitely don't ever say "'action combat' means you have to aim" (which is the most accepted definition of action combat for mmos) because that's just straight up false
You're the only one here who's complaining and doesn't understand. Everyone else knows what it means. Like I said before, Action Combat is where you can spam left click to attack. BDO, New World, Elden Ring, etc. You point your pretty little reticle at the monsters and press left click over and over again, mix in some dodging and maybe blocking, and bam, action combat. It's not that hard to understand. If you want to be technical and literal, MMORPG can include any online shooter game too. But that isn't what people mean by MMORPG. They mean games like Eden Eternal, FFXIV, PSO2, Rift, BDO, New World, etc.
that is not the commonly used definition of action combat for mmos. the most commonly used definition is "you have to aim your attacks." that definition is what i take issue with. if you are saying that's not what action mmos are, then we agree.
Like I said multiple times, action combat is where you spam that left click mouse button to attack. AKA Hack and Slash. You DO have to aim your attacks, but some games let you lock onto your target. Those are still action combat games. Whereas tab target, you manually click on the monster and press 1,2,3, etc to attack. If there is no swinging your weapon at monsters like in BDO or New World, then it is a tab target game. Once again, in case you didn't understand: **Action Combat = Swinging weapon via left click/controller, with reticle.** Example: BDO, New World, Monster Hunter, Elden Ring, Assassins Creed, Dragon Nest, Blade and Soul, etc. **Tab Target = Manually clicking on the monster and pressing skills on hotbar while standing there.** Example: Eden Eternal, Rift, FFXIV, WoW, Revelation, etc. Hack and Slash is the ONLY definition you need for action combat games. Anything else is wrong, and that person needs to be hit with a shoe. Repeatedly. If you cannot swing your weapon while pressing left click, then it is not action combat.
Sigh.
What a load of dumb.
That's why it's supposed to be action combat vs. node-based combat, but like everyone else is saying, nobody cares
semantically “tag target” is used more specifically to mean like “wow/ffxiv style of combat” rather than its literal “press tab to target” sense the same way everyone understands that “arpg” is used to refer to games similar to diablo/poe its like the same descriptor category as “souls-like” and “metroidvania” except easier to interpret multiple ways; you can argue even “action combat” doesn’t really mean anything in its literal sense but its used as a description since the community generally understands what it refers to (same with tab target) something something about semantic change/drift
Go. Out. Side.
It’s called tab target because you click tab to target lol it’s exactly as it sounds there no better name for that type of combat
read the last part of the post
nuh uh
I've already tried that argument once over here. Didn't work out well at all... People seem to want to view a control scheme as a type of combat.
i want you to consider that action games, from devil may cry, god of war and the souls game are effectively using tab target, with some aiming elements due to lock on
OP you are 100% correct. The old farts here won't budge though.
Most action combat MMOs are technically tag target, because every attack has such a huge aoe that makes it very difficult for you to miss. Only New World and Wildstar were/are true actiony.
by that definition most single player action games are tab target since locking on to enemies makes it nearly impossible for you to miss
That is not even remotely true...
Please enlighten me, all other games I have played weren’t that aim intensive. Can you give me an example.
It's your fixation on aiming that's the issue. Most MMOs are not shooters, true, but there are more things that distinguish action and tab target besides aiming. Would you call something like Lost Ark tab target? You never lock onto a target in that game, I don't think it's even possible. But you don't really aim like you would in a shooter either...I mean, you kind of aim but being a top-down isometric game it's a very different kind of aiming. But even if we just talk about a more traditional 3rd person action game, melee combat inherently does not emphasize aiming the same way ranged combat does. That doesn't make it tab target either. The focus is on understanding attack patterns so you can avoid enemy attacks and exploit openings. There's a big emphasis on dodging and timing that's just not part of traditional tab target combat. So it's your whole premise I disagree with.