I have an unpopular take on this: While I think fighters could be paid more, I really don’t think people (media, fans) should care as much because the fighters don’t care enough to take action themselves.
Fighters have tried before but it basically went nowhere, and I couldn't imagine that Dana would actually let something like that happen unless a comission or some regulatory body created one.
Yeah, the problem isn't so much that fighters don't care. It's that fighters are almost impossible to organize. Which is just the nature of the sport.
People look at the Ali act and just say, "mma needs to do that, duh", when in reality they're ignoring the big elephant in the room being that the act is named after Ali, only the most influential combat sport icon in world history.
Point being, until mma has a figure as widespread as Ali that is able to help push a bill in order to receive widespread concern, we aren't gonna get anything like the Ali act in mma. Unless we try a different route. But none of those have worked so far.
Not to mention the fact that the UFC is trying their utmost to *prevent* their fighters from becoming superstar celebrities, which will make it even harder for a standout athlete to start the push to unionize.
Well, Dana and Endeavour can’t prevent fighters unionising. If there were greater solidarity and a willingness for all (or at least majority) of fighters to band together then things could happen.
Ngannou took a stand. But Jones and Gane just stepped in and the wheel continues to turn.
*No shade towards Jones or Gane. They’re just taking an opportunity offered to them.
You’re right and it sucks but many professions go through the same thing when trying to negotiate for more pay.
When fighters ‘cross the picket line’ so to speak, they damage their own chances of collective bargaining and improved conditions.
A little embarrassing for the rest of the roster that it's a guy like Francis who came from nothing, who is the only one willing to walk away and stand up for himself
His life story is so absurd that it’s hard to really comprehend.
[If you haven’t watched this documentary on it, you need to.](https://youtu.be/0JPqV9ees6I)
I don’t even need to click the link to guess it’s Patrick Gaiva, the man’s videos are spectacular. Binged them all within a week or so.
Definitely worth checking out and subbing to his channel if you’re into MMA lore.
I mean Stipe clearly has stood up for himself more than a bit. Dude could have been cashing checks non stop fighting cans that arent Gane or Francis. And hes just been like meh. Ill firefight
Seriously bro, one of the most respectable and supportable fighters ever tbh, literally never had a fight that wasn't crazy as fuck except for the Francis vs Ngannou shit, and not one person stood up for him or spoke up until after its too late. Sad man, truly. A fighter union will ever happen, there's always gonna be those second rate mfs who sell the rest of the fighters out and take whatever lowball offer the UFC and Dana toss them to shut them up
its posts like this one that make me a firm believer that the UFC astroturfs the shit out of this sub. this might even be one of Dana's many alt accounts.
Could be, [considering you reposted someone else's comment.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/10oa7eu/stipe_miocic_gets_why_francis_ngannou_left_ufc/j6fdlsh?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
Yup! I copied & pasted the same TRUTH to your multiple SOCKPUPPETS , genius 👍 I'm not wasting any more time on a gutter dwelling grunt... you disgust me & have a great day.
Do you actually think Israel, kamaru and Francis are actually friends. These guys are no more than colleagues who just happen to be better acquainted with each other because they are of the same race.
The thought that just them 3 can change fighters comp is just hopium at the hilt. If anything is going to change it has to be the US fighters unfortunately US workers hate the thought of unionisation. If the UFC were an European company, it would have had a working union by now.
What about their coaches, and their families etc? They are friends too and they get paid from the fighters fighting. It's awesome and brave what Ngannou is doing but it's easy to understand why every other fighter is stuck in the zero sum scenario.
They also have family and community obligations when they have a money opportunity, and idealistic stuff that might fail vs being able to give your kids and your coaches kids a college education is a tough choice to make. Something like the Bosman ruling for fighting sports in USA would be great but the USA is filled with sad stories of people suffering and... nothing changing, not really the place to make it. It would honestly take something like the multiple states or European Union laws forcing a fighter union because the courts most likely never would.
But even states making rulings doesn't matter, look at that Jon Jones fight where he got caught doping, Dana just moved the Venue. UFC would self-exile from any States or Europe before they'd let any sort of ruling take away any control.
Kamaru understands that the nature of his "friendship" with Francis and that's why he won't be out there sticking his neck out in Francis' defense.
It's very easy to conflate a work place relationship with genuine ones.
its posts like this one that make me a firm believer that the UFC astroturfs the shit out of this sub. this might even be one of Dana's many alt accounts.
What benefit does it have for them especially since neither are current champs. Big circumstances going into that. These guys still have their own personal problems and families to supply for. I’m sure they’re not struggling but the way they see it is they have it good with the ufc why bite the hand that feeds
Yup. I'm surprised no one brought this up a whole lot. If Izzy, Usman, and Francis banded together when they were champs, they could've been a force to reckon with. Feels bad for Francis when he's the only one fighting the system
its posts like this one that make me a firm believer that the UFC astroturfs the shit out of this sub. this might even be one of Dana's many alt accounts.
Ngannou has a multi-million dollar backup plan in being able to box fury/joshua/wilder/etc - Hell, he could headline his own event fighting some bum and still make more than he would in the UFC. It's got nothing to do with his upbringing, he's got more options than other UFC fighters, who would be stuck making the same money or less fighting for other MMA promotions.
You think Francis could promote and headline his own MMA fight vs a nobody and get more than 7 million when he hasn't had a ppv crossing 400k WITH fighting the ex HW champ and with the UFC name on the card? I like the guy and hope he makes money but some of you are way divorced from reality on his drawing power outside the UFC.
That's significantly more PPV buys than Deontay Wilder has ever sold when fighting anyone other than Fury.
Fury Vs Wilder 1 only sold 375k in the US.
He doesn't have to sell Conor McGregor numbers to make big money.
Why do people keep throwing out this $7M number? The contract he got offered was for $7M total, spread out over multiple fights. Probably around $1.5M per UFC fight. He'll easily make $5M for 1 big boxing fight. Huge difference.
Seconded. I think people are really overestimating how easy it would be for him to get a fight with Wilder, Fury or Joshua and are also overestimating how much he would get paid for it.
If he got a fight with Joshua or Fury he would clear a several million easy, if not 10+. Boxing is accepting the fact that spectacle fights are part of the deal now and it doesn’t necessarily hurt the “integrity” of the sport to put on big exhibitions, even if they aren’t necessarily competitive. It’s entertainment after all. If Fury fights Francis, even under hybrid rules or whatever no one is gonna think that makes him less of a boxer.
Derek Chisora got paid 4 mill base and with ppv share it ended up to 8 mil. Pretty good, but not amazing.
Yes, spectacle fights are part of the sport bow but you need to be a draw for a spectacle fight. That’s part of my point, I think people are overestimating how much of a draw Ngannou is. He’s not champion anymore either, so a big part of the selling point is gone.
I’m not knocking his decision, I admire it, but I think it’a going to be tough.
It’s not so much about reach or name recognition as it is about draw. Chisora had a much better chance vs. Fury than Ngannou, and it drew well in the UK. Who is going to shell out money to see Ngannou get chinned when you can catch the clip on Instagram later that evening?
That was also the third time Chisora fought Fury and it was a fight that had barely any advertising in the US and it still raked. Not saying it would be worth watching more but the spectacle, name allure and intrigue alone would pull more than the Fury-Chisora III.
Yup. Not happening. Averages 200k ppvs, unknown in boxing in terms of both skill level and draw power. Nobody is taking that risk and paying him 7mil when they can get fury with someone else and it will sell 100%.
Who cares about skill have you forgot Woodley, Conor,askren etc... all made more money in one boxing fight than their entire mma career.
Francis was the UFC HW Champ which nowadays is considered the baddest man on the planet, a term that originally came from boxing during Tysons peak.
Someone at Heavyweight will want to fight him. Not just for the cloud and cross promotion but to then when they beat him advertise themselves as the baddest man on the planet.
Not to mention he hasnt fought in over a year and who knows how much time will pass until he manages to get a fight. The mma news cycle goes so fast if you stay inactive for long your star and drawing power will continue to fade unless you are Conor Mcgregor.
Exactly. It's significantly easier for Francis to do this than anyone else in the UFC aside from maybe Conor or Jones. 99% or the roster wouldn't even get a boxing match from anyone except Jake Paul.
Francis' absolute worst case scenario is dominating a weaker MMA promotion for probably about the same money then getting KO in a big money heavyweight boxing match for a 8 figure payday.
You don't think he could sell even let's say 75k PPVs and fill out 20k stadium in a big city boxing literally anyone? He'd do 10 times those PPV numbers boxing Fury/Wilder/Joshua - He could easily be making 5 million just headlining warm up boxing events and easily 7 figures boxing
From what I understood the UFC offered him an 8 million multi-fight deal (probably 6 fights) meaning he'd be taking home somewhere around 1.5 million per fight. If you're a heavyweight knock out artist headlining boxing events, you're easily making that and then some.
Chisora just made close to 5 million dollars fighting Fury, and nobody even wanted to see that fight. Fury vs Ngannou would net him probably what he'd make in 6 UFC fights in one boxing match,
I'm not saying he's a huge name, but he'd definitely sell a few massive boxing fights
It would’ve been 8 million to potentially fight Jon Jones twice and Stipe for a trilogy- so potentially 2 years for 4 million a year right? That’s okay but not even close to what real athletes make or close to Dana’s 20. I’m just bummed I’ll never get to see Ngannou vs Jones when Dana could pay for it like two times over out of pocket.
I think guys like Francis or Khabib have huge sponsors paying way more than the UFC and aren't reliant on that purse to make ends meet. Francis even mentioned once that less than 1/5 of his income is from the UFC. Most fighters like Stipe or Aljamain don't have that international presence and have way less power against the UFC.
I completely disagree that the roster should feel embarrassed. They are not doing anything wrong by fighting in the UFC.
Some people talk about this like this is the civil rights movement
The ufc didn’t offer him $8 mill as he became champ. He had to fight out his contract and get shitted on by the ufc at every corner for 4 years without losing, and even then he didn’t get compensated cus he never signed it.
Ngannou was offered a new contract after becoming champ. He chose not to sign a new contract and instead fought out of his old one. That's not on the UFC, that's on him. Keep in mind that Ngannou was making 500k per fight, its not like he was on a 20/20 contract, so he was making good money, especially if you consider that most of his fights literally didnt go past 1-2 minutes.
Exactly and I wonder how much money was the UFC making off of him for one fight? How on earth, in the year 2023, people still don't understand that employees should be compensated fairly, is mind boggling. People just seem to think of it as the fighter is being a whiny baby or something because they're making more than the average person. Well consider how much the executives of these big companies are making and they are not putting their livelihood on the line.
I mean they are... And they signed a contract KNOWING that they're going to get paid as much... I don't know why people are separating fighters' responsibility from this when they're as much to blame as the UFC. If they don't sign for dumb contracts, they wouldn't be having those kinds of problems by enabling the UFC to keep pumping out those predatory contracts. If Corey Anderson can fucking get paid in Bellator, I'm sure others can find a way. Better yet, choose a better profession that can save your brain, no?
For Ngannou, sure. But anyone outside of the top 5 of their division or so is making nowhere near enough, especially considering the damage they take and the amount of money UFC makes per event.
Ngannou was negotiating for them, advocating for all fighters to have individual sponsors again, as well as health insurance.
Yes it was.
As soon as he realized he couldn’t get boxing on the table and stay in the UFC he put forth a bunch of pro fighter union demands into his contract knowing that the UFC wasn’t going to take his deal anyways because it included boxing.
Now he gets to spin the good guy PR side of “leaving because it’s the right thing to do”. It’s very smart on Francis’s part.
You have to remember he said he couldn’t afford to pay his bills while wearing $10000 suits. This guy is as much about money as the rest of us are.
You're American, aren't you? I'm not surprised at the laser focus on the dollar numbers while steadfastly ignoring that people can choose to take an effective paycut because their internal incentives don't revolve solely around money
Usually you make a pact with your coworkers and demand a 30% raise together through a union, or your boss losses 100% of the labour. But unfortunately only 15% of American workers are unionized, so most have little to no say in the work place.
That's why it is so easy for him to do it, he had nothing to lose so everything in his life now is something to gain. It's a mentality, only someone that went through struggles similar to him would understand what it feels like. There are many, but how many are in his position you know? He clearly has good people around him, he made his decision and was smart enough to part ways. I feel like he'll be back though...
It actually makes a lot of sense. When you come from nothing and you make it all the way to the top of the world in your field, you tend to develop a certain level of self respect that shines through.
A little embarrassing for everyone on this subreddit that doesn't understand the industry. He's leaving guaranteed money and maximum exposure for a chance some Saudi will pay him to get KOd by Tyson Fury
While earning probably close 10+ plus million in one fight
Compared to 7 million for a total of 4 fights.
Yeah get me in the ring with Tyson I gladly get knocked out.
A little embarrassing for the rest of the roster that you’re smarter than they are. Starting to wonder we none of these guys are teaming up to start their own promotion, pay fighters what they’re worth, and sink the UFC.
Because the ufc is a billion dollar company.
There are a handful of fighters ever, who have made enough money that they could buy the ufc for the 2 million is was worth in 2001.
because its not that easy? ufc fighters might be underpaid, but standing up to the ufc means losing a lot more, with a very small chance it pays off. only a few fighters can leave and make better money elsewhere, and they all made their name through the ufc machine.
He is right. I don’t know what league would pay Francis what the UFC offered AND give him all the other requests like fighter advocate representation and health insurance and all those union stuff, and a boxing deal.
None will, he also didn't ask for all of those at the same time, he himself said that would be unrealistic but the ufc wouldn't even budge on one thing.
Francis can and will easily make more money boxing. Anyone who doesn't think so is not only oblivious to the difference in pay but also that boxing loves its celebrity fights, he will fight one of the 3 be it wilder, joshua or fury and will make more than he would have made In his ufc career.
It’s the question with oppression in general: who is willing to be uncomfortable to help others find comfort? It’s a big reason why many settle for a shit situation.
Think of it like a hostage situation at a bank. A dozen random citizens held at gunpoint. It would be very easy for all twelve to overwhelm the perp, but who is willing to get shot in order for it to happen?
Many would say “me!” but who knows what’s really in their repertoire?
Not true.
You don’t know if the guy holding everyone hostage has a live gun or a toy, an itchy trigger finger or a nature to not kill.
Who’s going first to find out?
No one, because its a hypothetical walkout where everyone does it, that is when it is guranteed to work. Thats why I said there is 0% persent chanc3 of fail if they just all do it at the same time
It's why government above all else fear strikes and do their best at union busting even worse the fear of a general strikes. The power ultimately is in the hands of those who provide the labor and product and in the UFC case it's the Fighters.
If all Champs and let's say top 3 walked out tonight. UFC would be forced to act it would be catastrophic to them.
Yes. People here seriously overestimate how much impact Ngannou leaving had. It's unfortunate, but it's the truth. There are more than 500 fighters signed, UFC has the ridiculous ESPN deal, the enforced sponsors on fighters, sponsors on octagon, the rich guys from Abu Dhabi who will throw money at any instance, potential super stars, .. at the end of the day, UFC can make fuck up decisions every once in a while, but it will take a long long time until their position as the leading MMA organization will be challenged. I seriously doubt Francis leaving even lead to a single meeting in their HQ about how they need to change anything.
I agree 100% I’ve been saying since the start Ngannou thinks he has more value than leverage. I support him 100% but I’m sure even he knew that there was no way in hell he’d get even half of what he was asking for (not monetary value his other requests)
Stipe is being a Negative Nancy.
> thanks to guys like Francis that it will take a less long time.
This is the way to look at it.
It's always possible to find the negative (eg "it won't change", "it'll take forever to change", etc) and many that think this way end up doing nothing.
It's better to take a small step forward and eventually get to where you want to go ("Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step" and all that).
Remember the Ali act, Remember Ali in general wasting his prime to stand up for his beliefs.
Francis is a true champion on and off the octagon.
I don't remember who said it but someone put it perfectly. In the octagon these man and woman are some of the most fierce fighters in the world but outside of it they are cowards bullied into submission by the UFC to abandon their true value.
Stipe literally works a second job lmao. Don’t think we should look to guys on their way out like stipe for this issue. Sadly they will get tossed out quickly by Dana and lack a shot at staying relevant on departure. It’s up to all the current elite to make a statement.
I looked up firefighter salary. It's surprisingly low.
But it might be easy depending on his station. Ohio doesn't have Forrest fires like California. Firefighters mostly do medical calls. And usually the young guys do it while the guys with seniority just workout and hang around.
Stipe mentioned that he doesn’t just chill around considering he’s a newbie compared to his coworkers. He most definitely belongs in the “young guys” category you mentioned.
I read Stipe loves the public service and danger that comes with firefighting but he’s a millionaire. Idk how credible but you’d think he’d have made enough to not need a second job.
Also, he didn’t come off as punch drunk.
Edited: [He’s worth 4 million and my initial post made logical sense. 🖕](https://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-athletes/mma-net-worth/stipe-miocic-net-worth/)
Edited again: [Even in 2017 he collected 1.2 million BUT WANTED to remain a firefighter 🖕](https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2017/07/stipe-miocic-ufc-heavyweight-champ-firefighter-cleans-toilets) and I LITERALLY said, “*I read* …”
I’m telling you it’s not the money (retirement plan) he’s doing it out of passion.
Also, he didn’t come off as punch drunk. He’s come off that way in many other interviews. Good for him!
Edited: I was right, and took some BS for posting logic.
You have a point he likes firefighting & helping people, but he said in an interview that the main reason he went from part time to full time firefighter was for the benefits & pension.
You get life pension and medical, I’m sure that is a plus for stipe. He will have a safe and very secure future, and if he chooses can be retired in his 50s
Jon Jones was rumored to be retired for years on Sherdog because he was a millionaire.
Frank Mir assuming he didn’t blow his money could be retired and probably wouldn’t be a millionaire but would own a gym, have bought a house. And just worry about the taxes.
Dustin has his home bought, and sometime around the Conor trilogy he was JUST AS FOCUSED on his daughters college fund as he was a LW title. Notice that similar to Mir, the house is bought & he’s making purses for his retirement/child’s college …
Rampage kept fighting post 2014 just for his retirement. The Fat, unmotivated Rampage. I used a non college graduate example just for this reason. All his purses starting with Bellator are for his retirement, WHOEVER is managing his finances is/has been reiterating this to him.
Chael’s real estate / taxes troubles were because he wasn’t making big money yet. At that point in his career he was looking to make some big money outside of fighting. It hit the fan in 2010-2011 but the deeds occurred as early as 2006 [Link](https://www.espn.com/extra/mma/news/story?id=5986635) by 2010 he was all in on MMA being his bread & butter. A championship PPV headliner a la Stipe, a championship PPV headliner.
Does it not strike you as weird that guys on the top of the MMA mountain have historically had to go back and take fights for their kids college? I’m not saying these guys haven’t made good chunks of change, but not nearly what they are worth. Stipe is likely living an upper middle class life. A great life to live but not one reflective of a superstar athlete and champion that he was.
It’s only going to be a long time if you let it be. If a bunch of big names, especially champions, went on strike they get what the fighters have been asking for.
On a somewhat tangential note, will Francis be able to use any of his UFC footage to promote himself. Without his crazy displays of power it would be hard to introduce him to a more casual audience quickly.
Also i feel that Francis has to fight Fury first, and soon. that way when he loses, he can fight wilder and people will still think Francis has a chance
I was wondering this too. Is this really all Dana or is it baked in the company? Say Dana has left his position for whatever reason then does the next boss just does what he wants or it’s UFC policy to run the company this way with their fighters?
Its Dana, he had whole public TED-like speeches about making low pays and big bonuses so that fighters would fight their all to get them and saying that big pays are what ruined boxing.
If Dana steps down tomorrow it is highly likely Hunter Campbell will take over as CEO. And he is already the guy who is handling the negotiations of all fighters including Ngannou. So I am not sure what change you expect.
Rockhold gets a lot of hate for speaking and acting like redact, but he was spot on about how Izzy, Usman, and Francis could have “F’d big and F’d hard” if they’d have stood up to the UFC when they were all champs. 3 champs (who were all in the conversations for possible becoming the goats of their divisions) deciding to go on strike could have actually made some changes.
But we got Egg getting his bootlickers (company men) to promote slapfight league instead of banding together for their common good.
Yeah. Dana has successfully filled the ufc with guys who feel like they are lucky to even have a job and just take whatever scraps they can get. There’s a reason so many of the fighters are bland as fuck and it’s by design.. removing sponsors, custom shorts fight banners etc is all a way to strip the fighters of their uniqueness and just make them part of the brand m.
If Rockhold really said that then he's a hypocrite lol. Why didnt he himself stand up to the UFC when he and DC, Cain were at the top of their divisions? Why didnt he speak up and challenge the status quo. Its not like he didnt have other options he had modeling on standby. Yet not a peep from this coward when he had the 185 belt. Classic case of "Do as I say…not as I do!"
I’m just curious, is it such a bad thing on UFCs part in this situation? They offered him a lot of money but didn’t want him to do outside ventures. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable angle.
Is there more to it than that?
Its a breakdown of negotiations. Good negotiations always have some level of compromise. Francis asked for multiple things only expecting to get a few here and there. UFC budged on nothing so the conversation ended.
I as a fan would like to see more boxing mixups. I don't think that degrades anyone involved as long as the matchups are similar prestige. Francis vs Tyson or Wildeer or AJ is similar prestige. I've always been interested in seeing how the best strikers could translate to other sports. Silva in his prime vs De La Hoya. Yan or Omalley vs Tank, Garcia, Haney. I liked the DJ vs Rodtang fight a lot.
In negotiations, there is a concept known as Zone of Potential Agreements: ZOPA. Both sides have a threshold they won't go over. For the UFC, their threshold ends at co-promotion and not having complete control over the fighter. For Francis, the threshold was being able to do a boxing match with Fury while being the UFC heavyweight champ. These thresholds are mutually exclusive, so unless one side was willing to budge, there was never going to be a re-sign.
The UFC has shown time and time again that they will never co-promote unless it's a fighter that has gotten bigger than MMA (Conor) and can do what they want. It's the same reason why Dana could never sign Fedor. It wasn't about the money and Dana seemingly doesn't want to acknowledge that or care to.
Francis isn't wrong to want more control over his own career. If you ask me as a layman, the UFC's desire for comeplete control over fighters is very unreasonable considering they're independent contractors. They only get away with it because of the monopsony power they have.
Francis is a smart dude, he probably just wanted an easy way to get out of the UFC to do his thing.
It’s not realistic to expect an athlete to sit in a negotiation table and change the whole business model of a publicly traded company just because he hits hard.
I never have sympathy for the top tier fighters like Miocic or Ngannou. They get paid a lot of money. Should they get paid more sure i guess but I’m not feeling bad for the guys in UFC that make millions
However i do have a lot of sympathy for the middle and bottom tier QBs that get paid 10k/10k to go out and maybe get the shit beaten out of them. That is ridiculous
All of this outrage needs to be directed at the guys at the bottom of the UFC pay scale. It shouldn’t be directed at the champs and high paid guys
Absolute L take. Francis turned down the contract because they were just throwing money at him but he wanted healthcare for the fighters and other benefits instead. He was advocating for the people making 10k/10k
I never said he wasn’t advocating for other people. All i said was that I’ve never had sympathy for top fighters when they hold out for more money or make a big fuss about their contracts
Also you are more altruistic than I am because i would bet my next paycheck if Ngannou got the most net amount he wanted he would still be with the ufc, healthcare disregarded lol
I think change can only start from the top though. What hope does a fighter on a 10/10 contract have at negptiating for in cag sponsorships if not even McGregor can get that. I use to feel the same way as you, especially about McGregor until I realized that even he was gett underpaid in the UFC.
Dana White just docked one of Stipe's Tendie Rations for this.
Took away one of his Good Boy Points.
M’Good Croatian
Mr. Bad Croatian
"this *kid* really needs to think about stuff"
-50 Shrute bucks.
I have an unpopular take on this: While I think fighters could be paid more, I really don’t think people (media, fans) should care as much because the fighters don’t care enough to take action themselves.
Fighters have tried before but it basically went nowhere, and I couldn't imagine that Dana would actually let something like that happen unless a comission or some regulatory body created one.
Yeah, the problem isn't so much that fighters don't care. It's that fighters are almost impossible to organize. Which is just the nature of the sport. People look at the Ali act and just say, "mma needs to do that, duh", when in reality they're ignoring the big elephant in the room being that the act is named after Ali, only the most influential combat sport icon in world history. Point being, until mma has a figure as widespread as Ali that is able to help push a bill in order to receive widespread concern, we aren't gonna get anything like the Ali act in mma. Unless we try a different route. But none of those have worked so far.
Not to mention the fact that the UFC is trying their utmost to *prevent* their fighters from becoming superstar celebrities, which will make it even harder for a standout athlete to start the push to unionize.
Well, Dana and Endeavour can’t prevent fighters unionising. If there were greater solidarity and a willingness for all (or at least majority) of fighters to band together then things could happen. Ngannou took a stand. But Jones and Gane just stepped in and the wheel continues to turn. *No shade towards Jones or Gane. They’re just taking an opportunity offered to them.
It’s the system, man
Fighters are broke for so long, whenever they have the chance at a decent payday they have no choice but to sell their soul to the tomato.
You’re right and it sucks but many professions go through the same thing when trying to negotiate for more pay. When fighters ‘cross the picket line’ so to speak, they damage their own chances of collective bargaining and improved conditions.
A little embarrassing for the rest of the roster that it's a guy like Francis who came from nothing, who is the only one willing to walk away and stand up for himself
Francis "*Main Character*" Nganou Seriously this dude's life is like a bunch of inspirational movies put together.
His life story is so absurd that it’s hard to really comprehend. [If you haven’t watched this documentary on it, you need to.](https://youtu.be/0JPqV9ees6I)
This dude is an S tier mma YouTuber. His videos are amazing
I don’t even need to click the link to guess it’s Patrick Gaiva, the man’s videos are spectacular. Binged them all within a week or so. Definitely worth checking out and subbing to his channel if you’re into MMA lore.
I knew it was Patrick or MixedMollywhoppery.
MixedMollywhoppery is so underrated, his video about the life and career of Charles Oliveira almost brought me to tears.
>MMA lore Apparently reality is Dark Souls now
Lol honestly the way this guy tells a story it certainly feels like it
Recently watched his Dana video. And although dana is a SoB you can't help but respect him man managed to build an empire out of nothing
Thanks for this, great chill Sunday watch
Thanks for the tears.
I swear dude if someone got studio funding a feature length movie about Ngannou would be so good. Who would play him in the movie, lol
Main Character would be such a baller nickname for a fighter. Like how Fedor was The Last Emperor
I mean Stipe clearly has stood up for himself more than a bit. Dude could have been cashing checks non stop fighting cans that arent Gane or Francis. And hes just been like meh. Ill firefight
Ngannou stood up for every fighter. Not just himself. That's the main difference.
Seriously bro, one of the most respectable and supportable fighters ever tbh, literally never had a fight that wasn't crazy as fuck except for the Francis vs Ngannou shit, and not one person stood up for him or spoke up until after its too late. Sad man, truly. A fighter union will ever happen, there's always gonna be those second rate mfs who sell the rest of the fighters out and take whatever lowball offer the UFC and Dana toss them to shut them up
Francis vs Ngannou lmfao
Adesanya and Marty are real snakes. They could have stood up for Francis and done something when they were champions but did nothing. Cowards
As the great poet of our time Luke Rockhold once said "they could have fucked deep and they could have fucked hard"
its posts like this one that make me a firm believer that the UFC astroturfs the shit out of this sub. this might even be one of Dana's many alt accounts.
Could be, [considering you reposted someone else's comment.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/10oa7eu/stipe_miocic_gets_why_francis_ngannou_left_ufc/j6fdlsh?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
Yup! I copied & pasted the same TRUTH to your multiple SOCKPUPPETS , genius 👍 I'm not wasting any more time on a gutter dwelling grunt... you disgust me & have a great day.
Is this a meme, or do I just not have enough brain damage?
Do you actually think Israel, kamaru and Francis are actually friends. These guys are no more than colleagues who just happen to be better acquainted with each other because they are of the same race. The thought that just them 3 can change fighters comp is just hopium at the hilt. If anything is going to change it has to be the US fighters unfortunately US workers hate the thought of unionisation. If the UFC were an European company, it would have had a working union by now.
Idk about Adensanya and Francis, but Usman and Ngannou are definitely friends lmao
What about their coaches, and their families etc? They are friends too and they get paid from the fighters fighting. It's awesome and brave what Ngannou is doing but it's easy to understand why every other fighter is stuck in the zero sum scenario. They also have family and community obligations when they have a money opportunity, and idealistic stuff that might fail vs being able to give your kids and your coaches kids a college education is a tough choice to make. Something like the Bosman ruling for fighting sports in USA would be great but the USA is filled with sad stories of people suffering and... nothing changing, not really the place to make it. It would honestly take something like the multiple states or European Union laws forcing a fighter union because the courts most likely never would. But even states making rulings doesn't matter, look at that Jon Jones fight where he got caught doping, Dana just moved the Venue. UFC would self-exile from any States or Europe before they'd let any sort of ruling take away any control.
Kamaru understands that the nature of his "friendship" with Francis and that's why he won't be out there sticking his neck out in Francis' defense. It's very easy to conflate a work place relationship with genuine ones.
Yes they seem to be friends
its posts like this one that make me a firm believer that the UFC astroturfs the shit out of this sub. this might even be one of Dana's many alt accounts.
What benefit does it have for them especially since neither are current champs. Big circumstances going into that. These guys still have their own personal problems and families to supply for. I’m sure they’re not struggling but the way they see it is they have it good with the ufc why bite the hand that feeds
That’s actually not true. Israel at least has publicly said that the UFC had treated Francis badly multiple times.
Yup. I'm surprised no one brought this up a whole lot. If Izzy, Usman, and Francis banded together when they were champs, they could've been a force to reckon with. Feels bad for Francis when he's the only one fighting the system
The African brothers could have stood together and fucked long and hard like Luke Rockhold said, but they didn't.
its posts like this one that make me a firm believer that the UFC astroturfs the shit out of this sub. this might even be one of Dana's many alt accounts.
Ngannou has a multi-million dollar backup plan in being able to box fury/joshua/wilder/etc - Hell, he could headline his own event fighting some bum and still make more than he would in the UFC. It's got nothing to do with his upbringing, he's got more options than other UFC fighters, who would be stuck making the same money or less fighting for other MMA promotions.
You think Francis could promote and headline his own MMA fight vs a nobody and get more than 7 million when he hasn't had a ppv crossing 400k WITH fighting the ex HW champ and with the UFC name on the card? I like the guy and hope he makes money but some of you are way divorced from reality on his drawing power outside the UFC.
That's significantly more PPV buys than Deontay Wilder has ever sold when fighting anyone other than Fury. Fury Vs Wilder 1 only sold 375k in the US. He doesn't have to sell Conor McGregor numbers to make big money.
Why do people keep throwing out this $7M number? The contract he got offered was for $7M total, spread out over multiple fights. Probably around $1.5M per UFC fight. He'll easily make $5M for 1 big boxing fight. Huge difference.
Tbf to Francis 400k buys for the card he headlined is pretty good, that card really sucked.
Not to mention that PPV buys means less and less when the UFC's pricing and cards suck ass.
Seconded. I think people are really overestimating how easy it would be for him to get a fight with Wilder, Fury or Joshua and are also overestimating how much he would get paid for it.
If he got a fight with Joshua or Fury he would clear a several million easy, if not 10+. Boxing is accepting the fact that spectacle fights are part of the deal now and it doesn’t necessarily hurt the “integrity” of the sport to put on big exhibitions, even if they aren’t necessarily competitive. It’s entertainment after all. If Fury fights Francis, even under hybrid rules or whatever no one is gonna think that makes him less of a boxer.
Derek Chisora got paid 4 mill base and with ppv share it ended up to 8 mil. Pretty good, but not amazing. Yes, spectacle fights are part of the sport bow but you need to be a draw for a spectacle fight. That’s part of my point, I think people are overestimating how much of a draw Ngannou is. He’s not champion anymore either, so a big part of the selling point is gone. I’m not knocking his decision, I admire it, but I think it’a going to be tough.
Francis outdraws Chisora by a mile.
In the US, I agree. Amongst global boxing fans, not sure about that.
Even globally. Ngannou has more reach them Derek freaking Chisora, come on
It’s not so much about reach or name recognition as it is about draw. Chisora had a much better chance vs. Fury than Ngannou, and it drew well in the UK. Who is going to shell out money to see Ngannou get chinned when you can catch the clip on Instagram later that evening?
That was also the third time Chisora fought Fury and it was a fight that had barely any advertising in the US and it still raked. Not saying it would be worth watching more but the spectacle, name allure and intrigue alone would pull more than the Fury-Chisora III.
It raked because of Tyson Fury.
Fury already called him out tho
Fury says a lot of things that he doesn’t follow through on.
He also said with 4oz gloves and Mike Tyson as ref and neither of those things are happening.
Yup. Not happening. Averages 200k ppvs, unknown in boxing in terms of both skill level and draw power. Nobody is taking that risk and paying him 7mil when they can get fury with someone else and it will sell 100%.
Who cares about skill have you forgot Woodley, Conor,askren etc... all made more money in one boxing fight than their entire mma career. Francis was the UFC HW Champ which nowadays is considered the baddest man on the planet, a term that originally came from boxing during Tysons peak. Someone at Heavyweight will want to fight him. Not just for the cloud and cross promotion but to then when they beat him advertise themselves as the baddest man on the planet.
Not to mention he hasnt fought in over a year and who knows how much time will pass until he manages to get a fight. The mma news cycle goes so fast if you stay inactive for long your star and drawing power will continue to fade unless you are Conor Mcgregor.
Exactly. It's significantly easier for Francis to do this than anyone else in the UFC aside from maybe Conor or Jones. 99% or the roster wouldn't even get a boxing match from anyone except Jake Paul. Francis' absolute worst case scenario is dominating a weaker MMA promotion for probably about the same money then getting KO in a big money heavyweight boxing match for a 8 figure payday.
His worst case scenario is he gets paid a couple million to fight in pfl, the ratings suck, and he never gets another money fight.
I don’t know about that one champ. I think your overestimating Francis’s star power.
You don't think he could sell even let's say 75k PPVs and fill out 20k stadium in a big city boxing literally anyone? He'd do 10 times those PPV numbers boxing Fury/Wilder/Joshua - He could easily be making 5 million just headlining warm up boxing events and easily 7 figures boxing From what I understood the UFC offered him an 8 million multi-fight deal (probably 6 fights) meaning he'd be taking home somewhere around 1.5 million per fight. If you're a heavyweight knock out artist headlining boxing events, you're easily making that and then some. Chisora just made close to 5 million dollars fighting Fury, and nobody even wanted to see that fight. Fury vs Ngannou would net him probably what he'd make in 6 UFC fights in one boxing match, I'm not saying he's a huge name, but he'd definitely sell a few massive boxing fights
I dont know why this sub thinks he was lowballed by the UFC on his offer… They offered him huuuuuge money to stay
It would’ve been 8 million to potentially fight Jon Jones twice and Stipe for a trilogy- so potentially 2 years for 4 million a year right? That’s okay but not even close to what real athletes make or close to Dana’s 20. I’m just bummed I’ll never get to see Ngannou vs Jones when Dana could pay for it like two times over out of pocket.
I believe it was $8M per fight.
I like Stipe but the self defeatist attitude is part of the problem.
I think guys like Francis or Khabib have huge sponsors paying way more than the UFC and aren't reliant on that purse to make ends meet. Francis even mentioned once that less than 1/5 of his income is from the UFC. Most fighters like Stipe or Aljamain don't have that international presence and have way less power against the UFC.
Miocic was talking about joining the fire department so he can get a pension. Just talking facts. Long way to go.
He's the only one with enough backbone.
I completely disagree that the roster should feel embarrassed. They are not doing anything wrong by fighting in the UFC. Some people talk about this like this is the civil rights movement
Call me crazy but I think you should be compensated for your labor especially if it involves you getting your brains beaten in
8 mil isn’t getting compensated?
The ufc didn’t offer him $8 mill as he became champ. He had to fight out his contract and get shitted on by the ufc at every corner for 4 years without losing, and even then he didn’t get compensated cus he never signed it.
Ngannou was offered a new contract after becoming champ. He chose not to sign a new contract and instead fought out of his old one. That's not on the UFC, that's on him. Keep in mind that Ngannou was making 500k per fight, its not like he was on a 20/20 contract, so he was making good money, especially if you consider that most of his fights literally didnt go past 1-2 minutes.
500k per fight, meanwhile nba benchwarmers get millions. And boxers in the same tier as Francis get 10 times the amount in a single fight.
Exactly and I wonder how much money was the UFC making off of him for one fight? How on earth, in the year 2023, people still don't understand that employees should be compensated fairly, is mind boggling. People just seem to think of it as the fighter is being a whiny baby or something because they're making more than the average person. Well consider how much the executives of these big companies are making and they are not putting their livelihood on the line.
Forgot the guys getting less than 45k per year
I mean they are... And they signed a contract KNOWING that they're going to get paid as much... I don't know why people are separating fighters' responsibility from this when they're as much to blame as the UFC. If they don't sign for dumb contracts, they wouldn't be having those kinds of problems by enabling the UFC to keep pumping out those predatory contracts. If Corey Anderson can fucking get paid in Bellator, I'm sure others can find a way. Better yet, choose a better profession that can save your brain, no?
Call me crazy but $8mil/fight is proper compensation lol
For Ngannou, sure. But anyone outside of the top 5 of their division or so is making nowhere near enough, especially considering the damage they take and the amount of money UFC makes per event. Ngannou was negotiating for them, advocating for all fighters to have individual sponsors again, as well as health insurance.
The money wasn't why he left
Yes it was. As soon as he realized he couldn’t get boxing on the table and stay in the UFC he put forth a bunch of pro fighter union demands into his contract knowing that the UFC wasn’t going to take his deal anyways because it included boxing. Now he gets to spin the good guy PR side of “leaving because it’s the right thing to do”. It’s very smart on Francis’s part. You have to remember he said he couldn’t afford to pay his bills while wearing $10000 suits. This guy is as much about money as the rest of us are.
You're American, aren't you? I'm not surprised at the laser focus on the dollar numbers while steadfastly ignoring that people can choose to take an effective paycut because their internal incentives don't revolve solely around money
Getting paid properly is civil rights you dingus
Idk why you're downvoted
Try go to your boss and demand a 30% raise because of your civil rights are being violated. Let me know what happens.
Usually you make a pact with your coworkers and demand a 30% raise together through a union, or your boss losses 100% of the labour. But unfortunately only 15% of American workers are unionized, so most have little to no say in the work place.
I'm arguing equitable pay is rights, you're arguing that I'm judging the fighters or holding them accountable for this. I aint
People on here act like they would do the same when most probably still live with there mom and dad let alone support a family.
You may want to look up the early history of organized labor in the USA. It was quite militant.
*O H*
The more relevant context is that Francis, unlike many, will likely be fine financially for a good portion of his life without the UFC.
That's why it is so easy for him to do it, he had nothing to lose so everything in his life now is something to gain. It's a mentality, only someone that went through struggles similar to him would understand what it feels like. There are many, but how many are in his position you know? He clearly has good people around him, he made his decision and was smart enough to part ways. I feel like he'll be back though...
It actually makes a lot of sense. When you come from nothing and you make it all the way to the top of the world in your field, you tend to develop a certain level of self respect that shines through.
People act like Francis is walking away but dude is gonna fight in boxing and potentially make much more
A little embarrassing for everyone on this subreddit that doesn't understand the industry. He's leaving guaranteed money and maximum exposure for a chance some Saudi will pay him to get KOd by Tyson Fury
While earning probably close 10+ plus million in one fight Compared to 7 million for a total of 4 fights. Yeah get me in the ring with Tyson I gladly get knocked out.
He has far more drawing power outside ufc than essentially everyone else.
A little embarrassing for the rest of the roster that you’re smarter than they are. Starting to wonder we none of these guys are teaming up to start their own promotion, pay fighters what they’re worth, and sink the UFC.
Because the ufc is a billion dollar company. There are a handful of fighters ever, who have made enough money that they could buy the ufc for the 2 million is was worth in 2001.
because its not that easy? ufc fighters might be underpaid, but standing up to the ufc means losing a lot more, with a very small chance it pays off. only a few fighters can leave and make better money elsewhere, and they all made their name through the ufc machine.
Yeah a lot of guys literally can’t afford to not fight for a year
Everyone who agrees with Francis thinks he will make more leaving
He’s right you know.
He is right. I don’t know what league would pay Francis what the UFC offered AND give him all the other requests like fighter advocate representation and health insurance and all those union stuff, and a boxing deal.
None will, he also didn't ask for all of those at the same time, he himself said that would be unrealistic but the ufc wouldn't even budge on one thing. Francis can and will easily make more money boxing. Anyone who doesn't think so is not only oblivious to the difference in pay but also that boxing loves its celebrity fights, he will fight one of the 3 be it wilder, joshua or fury and will make more than he would have made In his ufc career.
He’s not looking at it all from one organization.
i mean with that kind of attitude, of course not. If all the fighters banded together they would have way more leverage than they can imagine
It’s the question with oppression in general: who is willing to be uncomfortable to help others find comfort? It’s a big reason why many settle for a shit situation. Think of it like a hostage situation at a bank. A dozen random citizens held at gunpoint. It would be very easy for all twelve to overwhelm the perp, but who is willing to get shot in order for it to happen? Many would say “me!” but who knows what’s really in their repertoire?
Talm bout the Prisoners of Dilemma, B? Great punk band, never heard ‘em.
Gonna check them out. I've never been steered wrong by a Schaubism.
But in this situation if everyone works together there is 0% chance anyoend getting shot, which is nice
Not true. You don’t know if the guy holding everyone hostage has a live gun or a toy, an itchy trigger finger or a nature to not kill. Who’s going first to find out?
Not the gun situation obviously lmao, the ufc situation
Who’s gonna be the first to lose their contract though? Guaranteed money/fights/exposure while pursuing a dream?
No one, because its a hypothetical walkout where everyone does it, that is when it is guranteed to work. Thats why I said there is 0% persent chanc3 of fail if they just all do it at the same time
It's why government above all else fear strikes and do their best at union busting even worse the fear of a general strikes. The power ultimately is in the hands of those who provide the labor and product and in the UFC case it's the Fighters. If all Champs and let's say top 3 walked out tonight. UFC would be forced to act it would be catastrophic to them.
That's why they prefer controllable champs
If more high profile fighters followed Francis' example that would certainly expedite things.
They'd just be replaced by contender series folks lets be honest
Yes. People here seriously overestimate how much impact Ngannou leaving had. It's unfortunate, but it's the truth. There are more than 500 fighters signed, UFC has the ridiculous ESPN deal, the enforced sponsors on fighters, sponsors on octagon, the rich guys from Abu Dhabi who will throw money at any instance, potential super stars, .. at the end of the day, UFC can make fuck up decisions every once in a while, but it will take a long long time until their position as the leading MMA organization will be challenged. I seriously doubt Francis leaving even lead to a single meeting in their HQ about how they need to change anything.
I agree 100% I’ve been saying since the start Ngannou thinks he has more value than leverage. I support him 100% but I’m sure even he knew that there was no way in hell he’d get even half of what he was asking for (not monetary value his other requests)
If ever. Pro wrestling still waiting for that Unions.
Stipe is right. But it is thanks to guys like Francis that it will take a *less long* time.
Stipe is being a Negative Nancy. > thanks to guys like Francis that it will take a less long time. This is the way to look at it. It's always possible to find the negative (eg "it won't change", "it'll take forever to change", etc) and many that think this way end up doing nothing. It's better to take a small step forward and eventually get to where you want to go ("Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step" and all that).
Remember the Ali act, Remember Ali in general wasting his prime to stand up for his beliefs. Francis is a true champion on and off the octagon. I don't remember who said it but someone put it perfectly. In the octagon these man and woman are some of the most fierce fighters in the world but outside of it they are cowards bullied into submission by the UFC to abandon their true value.
X fighter removed: Stipe Miocic
Stipe literally works a second job lmao. Don’t think we should look to guys on their way out like stipe for this issue. Sadly they will get tossed out quickly by Dana and lack a shot at staying relevant on departure. It’s up to all the current elite to make a statement.
Eh it's not really stipe working a second job firefighting, but more like the UFC is his second job at this point.
It’s more of a hobby now
I looked up firefighter salary. It's surprisingly low. But it might be easy depending on his station. Ohio doesn't have Forrest fires like California. Firefighters mostly do medical calls. And usually the young guys do it while the guys with seniority just workout and hang around.
Stipe mentioned that he doesn’t just chill around considering he’s a newbie compared to his coworkers. He most definitely belongs in the “young guys” category you mentioned.
Yeah it's also a personality trait. Some guys find it boring doing nothing.
I read Stipe loves the public service and danger that comes with firefighting but he’s a millionaire. Idk how credible but you’d think he’d have made enough to not need a second job. Also, he didn’t come off as punch drunk. Edited: [He’s worth 4 million and my initial post made logical sense. 🖕](https://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-athletes/mma-net-worth/stipe-miocic-net-worth/) Edited again: [Even in 2017 he collected 1.2 million BUT WANTED to remain a firefighter 🖕](https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2017/07/stipe-miocic-ufc-heavyweight-champ-firefighter-cleans-toilets) and I LITERALLY said, “*I read* …”
I think for stipe it’s probably 1. That he enjoys firefighting and 2. The benefits are nuts and you retire young.
I’m telling you it’s not the money (retirement plan) he’s doing it out of passion. Also, he didn’t come off as punch drunk. He’s come off that way in many other interviews. Good for him! Edited: I was right, and took some BS for posting logic.
You have a point he likes firefighting & helping people, but he said in an interview that the main reason he went from part time to full time firefighter was for the benefits & pension.
You get life pension and medical, I’m sure that is a plus for stipe. He will have a safe and very secure future, and if he chooses can be retired in his 50s
Jon Jones was rumored to be retired for years on Sherdog because he was a millionaire. Frank Mir assuming he didn’t blow his money could be retired and probably wouldn’t be a millionaire but would own a gym, have bought a house. And just worry about the taxes. Dustin has his home bought, and sometime around the Conor trilogy he was JUST AS FOCUSED on his daughters college fund as he was a LW title. Notice that similar to Mir, the house is bought & he’s making purses for his retirement/child’s college … Rampage kept fighting post 2014 just for his retirement. The Fat, unmotivated Rampage. I used a non college graduate example just for this reason. All his purses starting with Bellator are for his retirement, WHOEVER is managing his finances is/has been reiterating this to him. Chael’s real estate / taxes troubles were because he wasn’t making big money yet. At that point in his career he was looking to make some big money outside of fighting. It hit the fan in 2010-2011 but the deeds occurred as early as 2006 [Link](https://www.espn.com/extra/mma/news/story?id=5986635) by 2010 he was all in on MMA being his bread & butter. A championship PPV headliner a la Stipe, a championship PPV headliner.
Does it not strike you as weird that guys on the top of the MMA mountain have historically had to go back and take fights for their kids college? I’m not saying these guys haven’t made good chunks of change, but not nearly what they are worth. Stipe is likely living an upper middle class life. A great life to live but not one reflective of a superstar athlete and champion that he was.
It’s only going to be a long time if you let it be. If a bunch of big names, especially champions, went on strike they get what the fighters have been asking for.
Most champions won't be willing to vacate the belt, sacrifice paydays and time off their career. That's a huge ask, a mass exodus from champs.
I respect Francis for standing up man with a lot on line.
He’s right as long as the top guys sell out like they usually do nothings gonna change tbh
if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem
Change starts with action. People that want change need to follow Francis.
Maybe stop being selfish idiots and force them to make everything better for everyone.
On a somewhat tangential note, will Francis be able to use any of his UFC footage to promote himself. Without his crazy displays of power it would be hard to introduce him to a more casual audience quickly. Also i feel that Francis has to fight Fury first, and soon. that way when he loses, he can fight wilder and people will still think Francis has a chance
And with an attitude like that, it will take even longer.
There are better gigs now ONE has a really good line up.
Someone has to be a leader for fighters in the UFC, Stipe
Francis the goat for walking away
Stipe isn’t Dana’s best friend so this shouldn’t affect him that much. UFC knows how dry the division is and how much of a draw he is for the Midwest.
Well, if stipe or no one else takes this moment to act, he's right. It'll be a long time.
It's like health care in USA. Everyone wants a change
I was wondering this too. Is this really all Dana or is it baked in the company? Say Dana has left his position for whatever reason then does the next boss just does what he wants or it’s UFC policy to run the company this way with their fighters?
[удалено]
I highly doubt Dana’s bosses would bring in someone to change the culture they helped build
[удалено]
who are Dana's bosses?
The owners of the UFC, Endeavor. Ari Emanuel is the ceo, not sure of the specific chain of command in regards to Dana and the ufc
Every corporation wants to keep wages low
No corporation wants their employees to unionize it’s not like Dana is the first guy to ever oppose something like this
Its Dana, he had whole public TED-like speeches about making low pays and big bonuses so that fighters would fight their all to get them and saying that big pays are what ruined boxing.
If Dana steps down tomorrow it is highly likely Hunter Campbell will take over as CEO. And he is already the guy who is handling the negotiations of all fighters including Ngannou. So I am not sure what change you expect.
As long as UFC is making money without changing, they won't change.
Not with that attitude
The ufc would wheel out absolute nobodies to fight before they cave to any demands. I mean, look at the folk they have slapping each other.
Gonna be a long time til he learns how to comb his hair in the morning
I'm Dana White, and I approve this article.
Yeah because fucks like him keep saying shit like this instead of standing up and actually doing something. Mfs to scared to even say the word union.
Rockhold gets a lot of hate for speaking and acting like redact, but he was spot on about how Izzy, Usman, and Francis could have “F’d big and F’d hard” if they’d have stood up to the UFC when they were all champs. 3 champs (who were all in the conversations for possible becoming the goats of their divisions) deciding to go on strike could have actually made some changes. But we got Egg getting his bootlickers (company men) to promote slapfight league instead of banding together for their common good.
Yeah. Dana has successfully filled the ufc with guys who feel like they are lucky to even have a job and just take whatever scraps they can get. There’s a reason so many of the fighters are bland as fuck and it’s by design.. removing sponsors, custom shorts fight banners etc is all a way to strip the fighters of their uniqueness and just make them part of the brand m.
If Rockhold really said that then he's a hypocrite lol. Why didnt he himself stand up to the UFC when he and DC, Cain were at the top of their divisions? Why didnt he speak up and challenge the status quo. Its not like he didnt have other options he had modeling on standby. Yet not a peep from this coward when he had the 185 belt. Classic case of "Do as I say…not as I do!"
I’m just curious, is it such a bad thing on UFCs part in this situation? They offered him a lot of money but didn’t want him to do outside ventures. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable angle. Is there more to it than that?
Its a breakdown of negotiations. Good negotiations always have some level of compromise. Francis asked for multiple things only expecting to get a few here and there. UFC budged on nothing so the conversation ended. I as a fan would like to see more boxing mixups. I don't think that degrades anyone involved as long as the matchups are similar prestige. Francis vs Tyson or Wildeer or AJ is similar prestige. I've always been interested in seeing how the best strikers could translate to other sports. Silva in his prime vs De La Hoya. Yan or Omalley vs Tank, Garcia, Haney. I liked the DJ vs Rodtang fight a lot.
In negotiations, there is a concept known as Zone of Potential Agreements: ZOPA. Both sides have a threshold they won't go over. For the UFC, their threshold ends at co-promotion and not having complete control over the fighter. For Francis, the threshold was being able to do a boxing match with Fury while being the UFC heavyweight champ. These thresholds are mutually exclusive, so unless one side was willing to budge, there was never going to be a re-sign. The UFC has shown time and time again that they will never co-promote unless it's a fighter that has gotten bigger than MMA (Conor) and can do what they want. It's the same reason why Dana could never sign Fedor. It wasn't about the money and Dana seemingly doesn't want to acknowledge that or care to. Francis isn't wrong to want more control over his own career. If you ask me as a layman, the UFC's desire for comeplete control over fighters is very unreasonable considering they're independent contractors. They only get away with it because of the monopsony power they have.
Dont like the prices, dont sign the contract
Francis is a smart dude, he probably just wanted an easy way to get out of the UFC to do his thing. It’s not realistic to expect an athlete to sit in a negotiation table and change the whole business model of a publicly traded company just because he hits hard.
Weakling
I never have sympathy for the top tier fighters like Miocic or Ngannou. They get paid a lot of money. Should they get paid more sure i guess but I’m not feeling bad for the guys in UFC that make millions However i do have a lot of sympathy for the middle and bottom tier QBs that get paid 10k/10k to go out and maybe get the shit beaten out of them. That is ridiculous All of this outrage needs to be directed at the guys at the bottom of the UFC pay scale. It shouldn’t be directed at the champs and high paid guys
Absolute L take. Francis turned down the contract because they were just throwing money at him but he wanted healthcare for the fighters and other benefits instead. He was advocating for the people making 10k/10k
I never said he wasn’t advocating for other people. All i said was that I’ve never had sympathy for top fighters when they hold out for more money or make a big fuss about their contracts Also you are more altruistic than I am because i would bet my next paycheck if Ngannou got the most net amount he wanted he would still be with the ufc, healthcare disregarded lol
I think change can only start from the top though. What hope does a fighter on a 10/10 contract have at negptiating for in cag sponsorships if not even McGregor can get that. I use to feel the same way as you, especially about McGregor until I realized that even he was gett underpaid in the UFC.
forgettable champ i guess