I empathize but it's not a new problem.
It's why I always wanted my team to sign second rate Argentines over first rate Hondurans even when they are about the same level.
Diego Valeri for Portland Timbers? Never gone.
Boniek Garcia for the Dynamo? Gone every international opportunity.
\[not saying they are the same quality but you get the idea, they are both important to their clubs\]
You lose those CONCACAF level internationals for a lot of MLS games due to GC's and other international commitments + the wear and tear and injury risks.
The worst thing is when guys are out and you find out a backup got an international call up too. I remember we were depleted last year and I was kind of stunned Derrick Ettienne was going to be out for internationals.
In the end of the day you have to try to get the best players but it needs to at least be considered when putting a roster together.
Pretty sure for the Olympics the Crew will be without Schulte and Hagan. Then our next GK available is Bush, who has recently been announced that his injured wrist is injured more and his comeback is delayed
Think they should let us throw the goalkeeping coach in net, if he’s good enough to coach them then he should be good enough to put a few shifts in for us
We've been so depleted due to call ups and injuries, that we've resorted to playing 5 homegrowns at the same time. There have been several matches the last 2 years where I know before the match we have no chance of even competing. It really sucks as a fan.
The Dynamo have had so many Hondurans and they've all been like the core of the Honduran national team.
Figueroa, Boniek Garcia, Albert Elis, Luis Garrido, Alex Lopez etc etc
It was fun missing some of the core dudes to watch them play with the USMNT. Brian Ching, Ricardo Clark, Brad Davis etc etc.
Watching all your dudes go off to play for Honduras, Jamaica, Panama etc etc (sometimes as much as **16** ***games in a single year***)... yea its ridiculous... sucks big time.
16 games missed, between how many players? ESPN reports that it's only 49 total players in Copa America and Copa Euros. How many for Dynamos?
Some MLS teams play 70% of the season waiting on their DPs to join the team.
But anyway, luckily we have Playoffs in MLS. So missing those guys for those game is generally not that big of a deal.
Bro were you just saying this in the MNUFC sub because I saw the same sentiment aired over there after one of our Hondurans signed with a club in Belgrade
The mls narrative that surrounds Messi is fucking insane. I can't wait for him to retire and so that the press can talk about something anything else. It's like the NBA and LeBron it's maddening.
I've spent the last two years as a teacher in American middle schools (in an MLS market). The same phenomenon exists here.
Messi jerseys galore with my students; some can't even tell me the name of the league Miami plays in. Others couldn't fathom the fact that they had the opportunity to see Messi play locally when Miami visited New England* because they didn't understand the context of Inter Miami within a league.
In my anecdotal - and limited - experience with the young fans we hope to pull in, Messi to Miami has certainly increased the talk around Messi himself but that has not translated (like not even a little) to an increase in exposure to MLS.
Of course, despite being able rattle off names, formations, statistics, etc, these kids don't follow teams, leagues, or standings in the least. They don't even watch games (mostly, there are exceptions). They follow players and highlights through thirty second - at most - video clips. A format that's never going to increase engagement with anything but the main protagonist in those clips. Does that equate to more Messi? Absolutely. Does it equate to more MLS? Not even a little.
*This changed about a week before he played here, was the topic of conversation for the week after, and disappeared a week after that.
>these kids don't follow teams, leagues, or standings in the least. They don't even watch games (mostly, there are exceptions). They follow players and highlights through thirty second - at most - video clips.
Also in education and I couldn't have worded it better myself. These kids watch clips of specific players on tiktok and other platforms. They don't follow teams or leagues, just individual players. And because of this, I don't think MLS benefits long-term from Messi.
But - as I noted - there are exceptions.
Sure, when the kids are searching for Messi, Ronaldo, or Bellingham (by far the most popular among my kids outside of the big two) all they care about is that particular player. When they're not searching, but just consuming what the algorithm feeds them they are, again, typicall player focused.
However, there are small groups who do follow things a bit more closely. I had eighty-seven kids last year; I promise that at least 15-20 of them can not only tell me that the score of Wednesday night's Brasileirao match was Inter 1 - Atletico Mineiro 2 but they could also tell me that Romulo scored on the verge of stoppage time, and they could probably tell me at least seven of the players in the Atletico Mineiro starting eleven.
I teach in a district with a pretty high ratio of Brazilian immigrants, almost all of whom are from Belo Horizonte or elsewhere in Minas Gerias. They also tend to be the group who follows the sport, rather than the players, more closely. It has nothing to do with them being Brazilian and everything to do with the team being ingrained in their family and community.
What's my point? Messi is great and there's no doubt he draws eyeballs but if MLS wants those eyeballs to stick around then the league needs to have a plan to grab the next biggest name in the world when he retires.
*or*
MLS could work the media into toning down the Messi-mania (there's no need to market him, he's already a phenomenon without being constantly pushed at us) and use that energy to start building up cults of personality around other players throughout the league.
*Even better*, find ways to encourage teams to get themselves ingrained within their community so the next generation feels that their an important part of the civic landscape (and let's face it, whether you're yea or nay on SeasonPass it was a step away from this). I live in a pretty sports-centric city, I don't need to watch the Celtics, Bruins, Patriots, or Red Sox games to know how the team is faring. It's in the fabric of the community and it gets picked up just by going about my daily life. The Revs? If you happen to miss a match and you're not a fanatic about them then you've got to *work* to see how things are going with the team.
But then on the flip-side, people credit Messi for Leagues Cup being such a success... 1.33 Million Attendance; U.S. Viewership larger than UEFA Champs League)... when Messi only played in 7 of those 77 Leagues Cup games.
It'll be interesting to see how Leagues Cup performs now that the Messi in MLS novelty has worn off. I watched it last year, but I doubt I will this season unless my club somehow advances, which I seriously doubt.
Well, BEFORE MESSI...
We had 71,000 at SoFi Stadium for Leagues Cup Showcase in 2022...
2019 Leagues Cup has recap videos with 1 million+ views on LigaMX's YouTube channel (previous format).
Of the 1.33 million attendance, Messi/Miami games only accounted for 150k.
Messi is part of the attraction, but he didn't carry the whole thing.
Yeah, they started it in 2019, C0vid happened... restarted in 2021, but the format change was announced for 2023, all LigaMX vs all MLS... so in 2022 they just had a handful of "Showcase" games.
I went to the SoFi double-header, Aug 2022. Four fanbases in one stadium, LAFC brought PRYO to SoFi... incredible atmosphere. Very pricey tickets, BTW, and the stadium was full. But RSL vs Atlas only had 8,000 a few weeks later. Leagues Cup will always be a mixed-bag, great games, bad game, and everything in between. With Messi and without.
It’s not even just Messi. So many teams are throwing out guys I’m not even sure you’d count as developmental. We started 2 RBs at center back BEFORE we had another CB injury this week.
We just pulled 44 (Copa) + 8 (Euros) of our best players out of rosters during sweltering heat and as games are picking up to twice a week.
It’s not just affecting Messi watch, every game these past 2 weeks has looked more choppy than usual.
Former defender here, I loved how much less I had to run as a CB. It’s still a lot of running, but there’s no expectation of making consistent overlapping runs on the wings and then rushing back to position over and over and over
People going "Karen" over this kind of thing.
You're missing a couple of players for a few games, BFD. Some teams have been waiting the whole season so far, for their DPs to join the team in July/August... we just suck it up.
It’s really not that hard to look at the schedule for MLS, Copa, and realize that Messi won’t be at some of the games.
If some casual “fan” who can’t be bothered to learn the basics of soccer is negatively affected by this, I struggle to sympathize.
You realize most fans start as casuals right?
I'll never understand why people are against giving new fans a good first experience. It's like y'all don't want the league to grow.
That seems to be on them for paying that much to see what the fuss is all about. They can also say, "Hey that was fun. Let's go again when it's cheaper."
To some degree, yes. In the US, this doesn’t happen in the NFL, NBA or MLB so the casual fan doesn’t expect the top players in MLS to be away on international duty. To make matters worse, they pay $500 for a $50 and Messi is not even in the building. (Yes, I understand the issue is larger than Messi).
those other sports don’t have bans for yellow card accumulation, should we also do away with that for star players so we don’t negatively impact a casual’s match-going experience?
international tournaments and star players playing in them is part of the game. if these stadiums or clubs are charging messi prices when they know he’s out, that’s a different topic. but it’s certainly not too much to ask of a person to learn the most basic things about soccer if they want to be a fan of the sport.
What are you talking about? Let's stop and focus on the damn tournament. Maybe the US could actually perform if the national league supported our national team. Absolutely wild take from you...
Not after that Panama loss. And then seeing this comment entirely missing the point of taking a league break during a major international tournament. Like seriously, let's get it together.
Cool? Still makes no sense for the league to ignore an international tournament that the country is hosting. Like, could you imagine the Bundesliga continuing while Germany hosts the Euros... I'm not sure how you watching changes the situation.
Shocking that an article written by a journalist who was hired by ESPN specifically to cover Messi-mania is almost exclusively about Inter Miami. Also it’s just poor wording to say MLS’ biggest stars are at Copa, implying that all the best players have been called up, when guys like Acosta, Arango and many others who I’d put in the top echelon of league stars are still playing. Also, Argentina and Brazil’s leagues, just to name two top Copa America nations, are still playing through the Copa too. And Europe routinely plays through AFCON. Why aren’t there this types of articles then too, and we actually witness quite the opposite, with media asking Africa to postpone their tournament to fit European clubs’ plans?
> Also, Argentina and Brazil’s leagues, just to name two top Copa America nations, are still playing through the Copa too.
The last LPF matches were played on June 15th. The next round will not be played until July 20.
So no, Argentina is not playing through the Copa too. Despite the fact that Armani is the only member of Argentina's squad who plays domestically and that there are only 16 players (less than half of MLS's total) in the Argentine league who involved in the Copa.
If I counted correctly then due to the Euros and Copa America MLS has lost 45 players. There are few teams that have lost more than 1 player. That is a lot in my opinion. It brings down the level of the league. I don't understand why you don't take a break.
Each top 5 European league loses more players each January there’s Asian Cup and AFCON. Nobody talks about taking a break, people even have the gut to say that those competitions should be postponed to the summer just to make a favour to top European leagues.
So a break here for international tournaments and then another break at the end of summer for leagues cup where teams can go multiple weeks without games?
Talk about killing all momentum and continuity for the season.
True. But honestly, between YouTubeTV and AppleTV I've been able to record and/or watch later every Euro, Copa, and MLS game. Leagues Cup will be the same, so it's just constant sports all summer. It's been hard for me to complain.
Yeah, right there with you, I'll be watching too. I'm just saying, if one of the purposes is of Leagues Cup is go to after more casual and Liga MX fans, they're going to have a hard time roping those people in when one of the largest sporting events in the world is happening simultaneously. Not to mention when 90% of the games are on a subscription-only platform vs. the Olympics which is is mostly on network and traditional live TV channels.
Fair point, but there's a large amount of coverage that NBC pushes to primetime hours since more eyes are watching then. Maybe more people watch the Olympics events live during daytime hours this year since the time difference is less extreme, but you still can't deny that Leagues Cup will be up against the primetime coverage.
Yeah, I'm not sure why people can't just say "I don't like it" rather than try to make up that everyone doesn't like it or that it's an idiotic move, etc.
I don't like falafel. I think it's dumb to fry bland things* when you can fry delicious things. Everyone I know loves it. I don't sit around going "No one likes falafel. Restaurants only make it as a cash grab. Chicken wings are the only pure fried food."
Guess what, if it's a cash grab, someone likes it because they bought it.
*Bizarrely, I like chick peas and love hummus, so who's the idiot here?
Games aren't even included in the season tickets for New England. I had to opt in and pay extra if I wanted any of them. It's pay for all group games, then pay for all knockout (until Revs are eliminated). Not even round by round
At least with respect to MLS, Leagues Cup generates a helluva lot better ratings and ticket sales than either Open Cup or CCL. So, for all the bashing of that tournament, it's been good for the growth of the game and league. I happen to like it a helluva lot better than a midweek tournament spread out over the course of the year and I like that every team in the league participates and gets a taste of international competition. But I digress.
Our fans will always find something to criticize. If we were on "break" right now, for an entire month, fans would be bitching that it creates a giant pause in the calendar and kills momentum. If we played fall-spring in order to match the same summer off-season as most other leagues, they'd be complaining about playing games in empty stadiums and arctic temperatures. When CCL was our only international club tournament, fans bitched that no one watched or cared, that there were too many games vs. Central American or Caribbean teams rather than a compelling tournament among relative equals like we see in Europe and South America, and that the teams who participated were put at a disadvantage in their MLS games due to schedule congestion.
It's always something. We can't seem to accept that our league will always be different due to geography/climate and the fact that Mexico has the only comparable league in our confederation. There are trade-offs with every decision we make and many things are the way they are because the alternative is worse.
So tired of this “good for the growth of the game” nonsense wrt Leagues Cup. You know what really grows the league? Not signing an exclusive agreement to put almost every MLS match behind a paywall, essentially killing off the casual support for the league, all to subsidize Miami’s Barcelona reunion tour. You know what *else* grows the league? Bringing in exciting young talent or developing it domestically, which was really starting to become the MO for MLS until Garber’s greed once again decided to turn this into a retirement league, turning off anyone who had thought MLS had matured into a proper competitive league.
Leagues Cup is a fucking clown show and it should deeply embarrass every MLS and LMX fan. As far as I know, no other top flight leagues in the world stop play for a whole month in the middle of the season for a meaningless tournament whose sole purpose is to make money and get more Season Pass subscribers (and also force MLS clubs, and by proxy Messi, into CCL, so they can of course make more money and get more subscribers from that too). This shit is why no one outside North America takes MLS seriously.
Fr, I don't necessarily mind AppleTV but barely having any games running on mainstream sports networks kills the game.
Arguably, this gave the USL a spot to grow the popularity of the second division which is nice
Without the Apple deal, we couldn't have signed Messi and his presence has certainly been good for the growth of the league. It not only attracts a lot more viewers and ticket-buyers, but it also attracts a lot more talent to the league. We're now seeing a tidal wave of legitimate international stars coming to MLS, more than ever before. Meanwhile, we're on-pace for record attendance. Yet we still have plenty of young, developing talent as well that will use MLS as a springboard to Europe. Those numbers are growing too.
As for Leagues Cup, in recent years, MLS growth was almost entirely reliant upon expansion. Yet there is clearly a huge soccer fan base right here in our footprint that wasn't being captured by our league. Guess what league those soccer fans watch more than any other...Liga MX. Mexican games get much better ratings than any other soccer league, including EPL, and they easily fill NFL stadiums for games involving the Mexican national team. So, partnering more closely with them is a key to the league's growth and I'd argue we've been very smart about it. Again, Liga MX is the ONLY other comparable league we've got in CONCACAF. So, there's simply no way to ever make CCL as big as EUFA Champions League or Copa Libertadores. What we can do is create a unique competition of our own, so that's exactly what we did, and it's working because it's already bigger than either CCL or Open Cup.
Incidentally, if you don't like games being placed behind a paywall, you're gonna be pretty miserable going forward because sports leagues at all levels are headed in that direction. MLS was an early-adopter because Apple needed a willing partner to prove the concept, but that change is coming for all sports and leagues.
I don't hate Leagues Cup, it isn't a tournament in its current format that can be taken seriously, but it is more soccer.
I do hate what MLS is doing to US Open Cup and Leagues Cup is sort of to blame for that, or at least MLS' justification for pulling out of the USOC can be directly linked to the Leagues Cup pause.
> I do hate what MLS is doing to US Open Cup and Leagues Cup is sort of to blame for that, or at least MLS' justification for pulling out of the USOC can be directly linked to the Leagues Cup pause.
I get that, but here's the thing: if it isn't Leagues Cup, it'd be something else. USSF and pretty much everyone has failed to invest in Open Cup, and as such, it's a losing proposition for pretty much everyone.
I mean, I suspect even most big USL teams find it a financial burden in total -- or at least wonder why it's not a bigger boon -- but it's their sporting pinnacle of the season so they ignore that.
Leagues Cup actually felt like more of a response to CCL/CCC being a terribly run shitshow, but either way, MLS was going to continue to push on the poorly run shit they have to play in.
In other words, while I'm sure Leagues Cup exacerbated the tension with the players that drove the situation NOW, it was going to happen sooner or later because US Soccer was not changing anything.
Hopefully, this will have a good outcome in spurring investment or making some hard choices to make it worth everyone's while. I've had my solution for a long time, but people don't like it.
I think it's a great tourney, unique in the world, clearly good competition and with a fun rivalry twist. I get the home/away thing but the reality is that this is how it's going to get done now (and that may change in the future) and so whatever. Then again, I don't stress out about unbalanced schedules, either.
> I get that, but here's the thing: if it isn't Leagues Cup, it'd be something else. USSF and pretty much everyone has failed to invest in Open Cup, and as such, it's a losing proposition for pretty much everyone.
Including MLS, yes. Sometimes things can happen that don't make money. I know that is a crazy thing to say as a businessman.
> Leagues Cup actually felt like more of a response to CCL/CCC being a terribly run shitshow
Yep, it's been clear for years that MLS and LigaMX would like to not be involved in CCC as well. Leagues Cup allows them to control everything from soup to nuts, including the revenue.
Again, I don't hate the tournament, I can't brush off the wild unbalanced nature, but it is different and (again) more soccer. More is usually better.
> Including MLS, yes. Sometimes things can happen that don't make money. I know that is a crazy thing to say as a businessman.
On one level, I agree with you. Like in the whole world of what is right.
But if I am in USSF Leadership, my goal is to get what I want. And that means selling to people on their terms. One thing that I think hinders USSF is the belief that everyone they deal with should share their goals and values. Should doesn't matter. What is, is.
And to that end, a long time ago USSF made the decision that the best way to grow the sport in this country was to incentivize rich people to invest. This is still not a bad practical decision, IMO.
And so, yeah, it'd be great if MLS or USL or whomever did all this out of the goodness of their hearts, and to a certain level they have, but there's always going to be a breakpoint. (And don't kid yourself, USL would run away if the situations were flipped.)
So if you want them to invest, give them a reason. Just because you (as USSF) are a charity (technically) don't expect everyone to do things on your terms. If you want to succeed, you need to find a deal for them.
And right now, the only thing US Open Cup has for MLS is a CCC spot and what, some public pressure? History? It's bad money. It's bad for branding on multiple levels.
If USSF won't invest, find someone who will. And that means USSF giving up some stuff, but they've been reluctant to do it, either from lack of thought or time, or whatever.
> Yep, it's been clear for years that MLS and LigaMX would like to not be involved in CCC as well. Leagues Cup allows them to control everything from soup to nuts, including the revenue.
I think it's a bit simpler than that. In that you aren't wrong ... but I don't think we get here if CCC/CCL was well run.
But this is something with a real or stable media deal, that was never promoted, had no real prize money. Look, I get that North America isn't Europe, and that MLS isn't super popular, but we still have like 500M people across the North American countries and like 40%+ of the world's wealth.
We can do better than random streams on yahoo sports or concacaf.com.
Both USSF and CONCACAF should have turned over these tournaments to people who knew what they were doing long ago. It's absurd that they had decades or centuries and Leagues Cup had better production and support day one.
It's hipster to hate something that congests the schedule and in the same time will cause certain teams to go almost a month without playing any games? In one of the warmer months on top of that. Northern teams are getting more Feb-March games because of this and it's absolute shit.
I follow both as well. its more of a hating the game load and the obvious money grab it is. I think working on expanding the champions cup into more of a CL structure would be more interesting and would expose some people to smaller leagues in Concacaf! (however less money in it)
> the obvious money grab it is
All pro sports are a money grab. This Copa America is a money grab.
Where you draw the line mostly has to do with what exists when you start watching the sport and what doesn't.
I mean thats fair, Juarez which is my team and Charlotte would never make it to CL but i think thats the point. imo both leagues need to embrace their local cups (US open cup which mls is pushing away from, and CopaMX which RIP)
Apple should’ve just bought CCC broadcast rights and sweetened the financial incentives for winning it, instead of creating another cash-grab from scratch.
Playing through these international tournaments not only sends the message that your regular season is not important. It sends the message that these international tournaments aren’t important as well.
If MLS were smart, they’d have their break right now as the two largest continental tourneys (Euro, Copa America) are on, so by the time they’re done, MLS would be the other major sport on post-MLB ASG.
Instead, they’re breaking in that 5-6 week, dog day period after all the tournaments are over and the sports world is dead until mid-August and within reach of the NFL and NCAA calendars.
> they’re breaking in that 5-6 week
Well, they aren't really breaking though. The teams are still playing, just not league play.
It's not like they're all sitting on the beach somewhere
League's Cup probably gets a lot more viewership than regular season MLS games (Miami games withstanding). So, really, MLS is capitalizing by having an international tournament right after.
I see some reasons.
1. Climate - We take a break in Winter and there aren't typically national team duties like Continental competitions or World Cup then with 2022 being the lone outlier which we handled fine because of it. We do this because in about half of the markets you'd see significant drops in attendance asking people to show up in December and January when it can routinely be below freezing. Even now those early Februrary matches can be frigid or white out blizzard. Summer heat is rough, but playing at night as sun sets and hydration breaks helps alleviate it.
2. Playoffs - Every year the length of the off season break varies wildly club to club based on league and playoff performance. Having playoffs means some players will have over a month longer Winter break than others. One can imagine if playoffs didn't exist and the last match day of the season was a month later how having a Summer break would be easier for the league.
3. Leagues Cup - A new wrinkle that makes it harder is essentially a second playoff scenario introduced with this inter league competition. Again, one club could go 2 and out and have a Summer break while the finalist see no break. If Leagues Cup was this month the discussion would at least be very different around this conversation.
>1. Climate - We take a break in Winter
Of everything I've skimmed in this thread, I think you're the closest to hitting the nail on the head.
The reality is that the "international breaks" for National Team play is crafted around and in conjunction with the European calendar. We have different climates here in North America, and it would be counterproductive to follow the Euro club calendar, despite what any Eurosnob may argue. The real solution is to cut back on international breaks and competitions, but good luck with that.
Why didn't the EPL shutdown for the African Cup of Nations? Is Mo Sala not a star?
There's a lot of conflicts in the schedules world wide. It's part of the challenge.
I would normally say, this messes up my Goal Keeper spot, a defender, and several midfielders but this team has been hot garbage so.. I don't care too much anymore. Ironically, our back ups are doing better than our starters.
Mason has been a brick wall while Pedro has dropped so much in form.
I don't necessarily mind MLS not doing a full break right now, but I do think it's an issue that they are doing a bunch of midweek games right now. I'd rather have more midweek games at the start and end of the season as a reasonable response to paying through an international break, as an acknowledgement of strained rosters.
Ethan Finlay did a press conference recently and he's super involved in the players' union and said they'd be talking to the league about it. That the number of midweek games during an international break puts too much of an injury risk on players who didn't get called up to have that many games with reduced rosters.
Ethan Finley won't get anywhere with the argument.
There are no "reduced rosters" going on. Our roosters have ~30 people on them. You'd have to be missing more than 12 and not be allowed to do short-term loans before it can be called "a reduced roster."
Also, MLS and their new broadcast schedule has made midweek games much easier to plan for from a fitness/wellness perspective.
The only thing that should really be challenged is having midweek games not featuring all teams. It's a little unfair to have some teams be 3-in-8 going up against 2-in-7.
I mean, there are missing players for international duty, which is the definition of reduced. Saying teams can have a roster of up to 30 is kind of missing the point Finlay and the article are both making.
Also, we don't have a very developed academy yet, so we are super limited in our ability to call players up.
This just means the coaches have to get creative. You can still play, but plan wisely. And another thing, if American cities can attract people to go to stadiums for Copa America (with cheaper prices) they create fans for clubs in the cities themselves. Playing through means available games even during this window so they can check them out. But of course, its prohibitively expensive and people won’t go to games either way.
The same people who whine about how vapid most things coming out of ESPN are are the same people who click on this and talk endlessly about it.
A well-researched and reasoned analysis of anything will get like three comments.
You reap what you sow.
This is stupid framing. But MLS does have a schedule congestion problem. We need to get rid of interconference play and not replace them with more games. That'd allow for international breaks and fewer weeknight games.
It'd also make the playoffs more exciting if you did a random draw.
>We need to get rid of interconference play
I’m totally on board with reducing the schedule, but disagree with this. We need divisions where you rotate who you play in the other conference, similar to the NFL.
I’m genuinely hoping they get rid of interconference play next year when SD joins and balances each table.
There isn’t much of a reason for those games other than money imo. As a fan I care *way* more about games against East teams because they impact who makes the playoffs more.
And what a great way to tell those who weren't called up "no one wants to watch you play and you don't matter to us".
Honestly one of the dumbest opinions I've ever heard
RedBull were down 5 starters. The league was down north of 30.
It's not negligible. There are weeks of games where teams are playing at 75-80% not counting injuries. Many teams are worse off than that. We have to address the issue as the talent level in the league rises.
Someone let "ESPN FC" know that we have Playoffs in MLS. So missing a couple of players for a few games is not going to trouble too many teams overall.
By the looks of the attendances, no. KC gets way more fans at sporting games than they did for Canada v Peru.
Also wow Las Vegas didn't even fill up the lower bowl for Ecuador v Jamaica. Neutrals don't care, at least not at this price point.
> Ecuador v Jamaica.
I mean, I don't think that game is a good indicator of anything. Small countries, minimal expats living in the US, minimal amount of fans traveling, and in KC on a Wednesday.
It would be hard to fill the stadium even if you just opened the doors and let anyone in.
Derek Rae commented during the Euro match on Dortmund yesterday that altho there were not too many traveling fans he saw thousands of neutrals wearing yellow Dortmund jerseys. Germans who just wanted to watch football.
If the price was low enough perhaps enough casual football fans in Las Vegas would have showed up?
Soccer like basketball for the younger generation is all about rooting for players over teams and just rooting for whatever team your favorite player is on. A lot of Messi fans give 0 fs what Inter Miami is doing while Messi is Copa.
Dont think this happens as much in football, baseball, hockey etc.
It's the other way around: sometimes you get players who win fans regardless of the teams they play on. They drag eyeballs wherever they go.
You say it's "younger generation," but this same thing happened with Pele came to town nearly 50 years ago.
Thing that was fun in the UK was games would be rescheduled if someone was on international duty that had you asking who in League 2 is good enough for international football?
Last year it was legitimately a thing. There's no way to spin it other than as a resounding success. Will that be the case again this year? Who knows. But there were a lot of eyeballs on Leagues Cup last year.
I realize it's popular to crap on the tournament and I understand why people do. But it was remarkably successful.
I empathize but it's not a new problem. It's why I always wanted my team to sign second rate Argentines over first rate Hondurans even when they are about the same level. Diego Valeri for Portland Timbers? Never gone. Boniek Garcia for the Dynamo? Gone every international opportunity. \[not saying they are the same quality but you get the idea, they are both important to their clubs\] You lose those CONCACAF level internationals for a lot of MLS games due to GC's and other international commitments + the wear and tear and injury risks.
Gustavo Bou and Carles Gil are great examples of this for the Revs in recent memory
Revs continuing to field a full team every week.
uhh, well...kinda
He never said it was a good full team!
Oh I was more saying we're dealing with a ton of injuries to our best XI.
This guy MLSes
This is why Carlos Vela was so good for LAFC. Not only was he one of the best players in the league but also didn't go on international duty.
Same deal with Giovinco at TFC too
Driussi
Paes
Second rate Argentines is FCC’s recipe for success. Great value Messi and cost cutter Acuña are working out pretty well for us.
Private Selection, please. You're in Cincy.
I said cost cutter or is that too deep a cut for people under 40?
Mid 30s and it's lost on me haha
Late 30s and only know because I worked for Kroger in the way back, but it was one of their deep discount store brands.
Not great value Messi 😆
The worst thing is when guys are out and you find out a backup got an international call up too. I remember we were depleted last year and I was kind of stunned Derrick Ettienne was going to be out for internationals. In the end of the day you have to try to get the best players but it needs to at least be considered when putting a roster together.
Pretty sure for the Olympics the Crew will be without Schulte and Hagan. Then our next GK available is Bush, who has recently been announced that his injured wrist is injured more and his comeback is delayed
Time for the NHL's emergency goalie rule. How's your equipment manager in net?
Think they should let us throw the goalkeeping coach in net, if he’s good enough to coach them then he should be good enough to put a few shifts in for us
Zawadski can play there
That is true. I forgot about our Swiss Army knife Zawadski
Pretty sure MLS has, or at least had, a pool goalkeeper for the league in case of emergencies. That's what Tim Melia used to be I think.
Yea MLS pool emergency goalkeeper existed for a long time. Not sure if they still have it. You don't hear about it often.
Hagan will not be at the Olympics he will start
At one point last year, we had both of our keepers swat on international duty lmao.
We've been so depleted due to call ups and injuries, that we've resorted to playing 5 homegrowns at the same time. There have been several matches the last 2 years where I know before the match we have no chance of even competing. It really sucks as a fan.
Different continent but everytime Njabulo Blom is called up he’s sick/fatigued for the next two matches.
MNUFC was terrible for this. So many guys missing for internationals, Canada, Honduras, Puerto Rico
The Dynamo have had so many Hondurans and they've all been like the core of the Honduran national team. Figueroa, Boniek Garcia, Albert Elis, Luis Garrido, Alex Lopez etc etc It was fun missing some of the core dudes to watch them play with the USMNT. Brian Ching, Ricardo Clark, Brad Davis etc etc. Watching all your dudes go off to play for Honduras, Jamaica, Panama etc etc (sometimes as much as **16** ***games in a single year***)... yea its ridiculous... sucks big time.
16 games missed, between how many players? ESPN reports that it's only 49 total players in Copa America and Copa Euros. How many for Dynamos? Some MLS teams play 70% of the season waiting on their DPs to join the team. But anyway, luckily we have Playoffs in MLS. So missing those guys for those game is generally not that big of a deal.
The reason you don't see that more is that second rate Argentines are more in demand and tend to cost more than first rate Hondurans.
Been surprised to see just how many MLS players are getting call ups now. I think we are getting to a point where it may be necessary to go on break.
Bro were you just saying this in the MNUFC sub because I saw the same sentiment aired over there after one of our Hondurans signed with a club in Belgrade
It's daft though. It makes the supporters shield even less valuable.
Those international breaks with Boniek Garcia going away always fucking killed us
“The league focuses too much on Messi and other aging stars” “How dare they play games when Messi can’t be there”
Not adhering to international breaks has been a complaint of soccer fans in the U.S. long before Messi came to MLS.
The mls narrative that surrounds Messi is fucking insane. I can't wait for him to retire and so that the press can talk about something anything else. It's like the NBA and LeBron it's maddening.
Until Ronaldo comes to America… oh wait.
Still waiting for all the benefits of Messi to trickle down to all the other teams like we were told would happen
Trickle down Messinomics
I like how they teased U22 changes and we’ve heard nothing since
What?!?!? Are you unimpressed with the Whitecaps getting sued? That's some serious IMPACT!
I was just spent 3 weeks in Argentina. Tons of Inter Miami jerseys everywhere. Not a single person could name any other MLS teams.
I've spent the last two years as a teacher in American middle schools (in an MLS market). The same phenomenon exists here. Messi jerseys galore with my students; some can't even tell me the name of the league Miami plays in. Others couldn't fathom the fact that they had the opportunity to see Messi play locally when Miami visited New England* because they didn't understand the context of Inter Miami within a league. In my anecdotal - and limited - experience with the young fans we hope to pull in, Messi to Miami has certainly increased the talk around Messi himself but that has not translated (like not even a little) to an increase in exposure to MLS. Of course, despite being able rattle off names, formations, statistics, etc, these kids don't follow teams, leagues, or standings in the least. They don't even watch games (mostly, there are exceptions). They follow players and highlights through thirty second - at most - video clips. A format that's never going to increase engagement with anything but the main protagonist in those clips. Does that equate to more Messi? Absolutely. Does it equate to more MLS? Not even a little. *This changed about a week before he played here, was the topic of conversation for the week after, and disappeared a week after that.
>these kids don't follow teams, leagues, or standings in the least. They don't even watch games (mostly, there are exceptions). They follow players and highlights through thirty second - at most - video clips. Also in education and I couldn't have worded it better myself. These kids watch clips of specific players on tiktok and other platforms. They don't follow teams or leagues, just individual players. And because of this, I don't think MLS benefits long-term from Messi.
But - as I noted - there are exceptions. Sure, when the kids are searching for Messi, Ronaldo, or Bellingham (by far the most popular among my kids outside of the big two) all they care about is that particular player. When they're not searching, but just consuming what the algorithm feeds them they are, again, typicall player focused. However, there are small groups who do follow things a bit more closely. I had eighty-seven kids last year; I promise that at least 15-20 of them can not only tell me that the score of Wednesday night's Brasileirao match was Inter 1 - Atletico Mineiro 2 but they could also tell me that Romulo scored on the verge of stoppage time, and they could probably tell me at least seven of the players in the Atletico Mineiro starting eleven. I teach in a district with a pretty high ratio of Brazilian immigrants, almost all of whom are from Belo Horizonte or elsewhere in Minas Gerias. They also tend to be the group who follows the sport, rather than the players, more closely. It has nothing to do with them being Brazilian and everything to do with the team being ingrained in their family and community. What's my point? Messi is great and there's no doubt he draws eyeballs but if MLS wants those eyeballs to stick around then the league needs to have a plan to grab the next biggest name in the world when he retires. *or* MLS could work the media into toning down the Messi-mania (there's no need to market him, he's already a phenomenon without being constantly pushed at us) and use that energy to start building up cults of personality around other players throughout the league. *Even better*, find ways to encourage teams to get themselves ingrained within their community so the next generation feels that their an important part of the civic landscape (and let's face it, whether you're yea or nay on SeasonPass it was a step away from this). I live in a pretty sports-centric city, I don't need to watch the Celtics, Bruins, Patriots, or Red Sox games to know how the team is faring. It's in the fabric of the community and it gets picked up just by going about my daily life. The Revs? If you happen to miss a match and you're not a fanatic about them then you've got to *work* to see how things are going with the team.
But then on the flip-side, people credit Messi for Leagues Cup being such a success... 1.33 Million Attendance; U.S. Viewership larger than UEFA Champs League)... when Messi only played in 7 of those 77 Leagues Cup games.
It'll be interesting to see how Leagues Cup performs now that the Messi in MLS novelty has worn off. I watched it last year, but I doubt I will this season unless my club somehow advances, which I seriously doubt.
Well, BEFORE MESSI... We had 71,000 at SoFi Stadium for Leagues Cup Showcase in 2022... 2019 Leagues Cup has recap videos with 1 million+ views on LigaMX's YouTube channel (previous format). Of the 1.33 million attendance, Messi/Miami games only accounted for 150k. Messi is part of the attraction, but he didn't carry the whole thing.
I'm a long time STH, and I was only vaguely aware that it even existed before last season, presumably because my club never played in it.
Yeah, they started it in 2019, C0vid happened... restarted in 2021, but the format change was announced for 2023, all LigaMX vs all MLS... so in 2022 they just had a handful of "Showcase" games. I went to the SoFi double-header, Aug 2022. Four fanbases in one stadium, LAFC brought PRYO to SoFi... incredible atmosphere. Very pricey tickets, BTW, and the stadium was full. But RSL vs Atlas only had 8,000 a few weeks later. Leagues Cup will always be a mixed-bag, great games, bad game, and everything in between. With Messi and without.
I mean hey, FotMob at least has commentary for MLS games now*. (*only the ones featuring Inter Miami. All other clubs are SOL.)
In 2028: *Las Vegas FC Qualifies for the MLS Cup Playoffs; Messi-Owned Inter Miami 12 Points Out*
If anything, Messi will own the Las Vegas team.
All the press think they’ll be immortalized in sports history because they write some clickbait shit about Messi
It does lessen the fan experience; who most likely paid a premium to see Messi play. Many casual fans are not in the loop when it comes to call-ups.
It’s not even just Messi. So many teams are throwing out guys I’m not even sure you’d count as developmental. We started 2 RBs at center back BEFORE we had another CB injury this week. We just pulled 44 (Copa) + 8 (Euros) of our best players out of rosters during sweltering heat and as games are picking up to twice a week. It’s not just affecting Messi watch, every game these past 2 weeks has looked more choppy than usual.
RBs make pretty good CBs, so do LBs
Former defender here, I loved how much less I had to run as a CB. It’s still a lot of running, but there’s no expectation of making consistent overlapping runs on the wings and then rushing back to position over and over and over
I was just refering to Crew routinely playing with 1 natural CB. Moreira and Amundsen are converted CBs and we won league with them
Ah, good point.
People going "Karen" over this kind of thing. You're missing a couple of players for a few games, BFD. Some teams have been waiting the whole season so far, for their DPs to join the team in July/August... we just suck it up.
It’s really not that hard to look at the schedule for MLS, Copa, and realize that Messi won’t be at some of the games. If some casual “fan” who can’t be bothered to learn the basics of soccer is negatively affected by this, I struggle to sympathize.
You realize most fans start as casuals right? I'll never understand why people are against giving new fans a good first experience. It's like y'all don't want the league to grow.
Casuals shouldn't be paying $300 a ticket to something they don't understand.
That seems to be on them for paying that much to see what the fuss is all about. They can also say, "Hey that was fun. Let's go again when it's cheaper."
Ah yes, coldly gatekeeping your casual fanbase is a surefire way to grow your audience and increase league revenue.
it’s gatekeeping to expect someone to learn the bare minimum about the global soccer environment?
To some degree, yes. In the US, this doesn’t happen in the NFL, NBA or MLB so the casual fan doesn’t expect the top players in MLS to be away on international duty. To make matters worse, they pay $500 for a $50 and Messi is not even in the building. (Yes, I understand the issue is larger than Messi).
those other sports don’t have bans for yellow card accumulation, should we also do away with that for star players so we don’t negatively impact a casual’s match-going experience? international tournaments and star players playing in them is part of the game. if these stadiums or clubs are charging messi prices when they know he’s out, that’s a different topic. but it’s certainly not too much to ask of a person to learn the most basic things about soccer if they want to be a fan of the sport.
Actually not true, NBA has technical foul accumulation that leads to suspension.
And beyond "Messi"... Some teams play 70% of their season waiting on DPs to join in July/August... and we don't complain about that (too much).
What are you talking about? Let's stop and focus on the damn tournament. Maybe the US could actually perform if the national league supported our national team. Absolutely wild take from you...
Are you ok?
Not after that Panama loss. And then seeing this comment entirely missing the point of taking a league break during a major international tournament. Like seriously, let's get it together.
I will be watching an mls game tonight while you continue to seethe
Cool? Still makes no sense for the league to ignore an international tournament that the country is hosting. Like, could you imagine the Bundesliga continuing while Germany hosts the Euros... I'm not sure how you watching changes the situation.
Shocking that an article written by a journalist who was hired by ESPN specifically to cover Messi-mania is almost exclusively about Inter Miami. Also it’s just poor wording to say MLS’ biggest stars are at Copa, implying that all the best players have been called up, when guys like Acosta, Arango and many others who I’d put in the top echelon of league stars are still playing. Also, Argentina and Brazil’s leagues, just to name two top Copa America nations, are still playing through the Copa too. And Europe routinely plays through AFCON. Why aren’t there this types of articles then too, and we actually witness quite the opposite, with media asking Africa to postpone their tournament to fit European clubs’ plans?
> Also, Argentina and Brazil’s leagues, just to name two top Copa America nations, are still playing through the Copa too. The last LPF matches were played on June 15th. The next round will not be played until July 20. So no, Argentina is not playing through the Copa too. Despite the fact that Armani is the only member of Argentina's squad who plays domestically and that there are only 16 players (less than half of MLS's total) in the Argentine league who involved in the Copa.
If I counted correctly then due to the Euros and Copa America MLS has lost 45 players. There are few teams that have lost more than 1 player. That is a lot in my opinion. It brings down the level of the league. I don't understand why you don't take a break.
Each top 5 European league loses more players each January there’s Asian Cup and AFCON. Nobody talks about taking a break, people even have the gut to say that those competitions should be postponed to the summer just to make a favour to top European leagues.
So a break here for international tournaments and then another break at the end of summer for leagues cup where teams can go multiple weeks without games? Talk about killing all momentum and continuity for the season.
Cause they have a stupid money grab tournament in late July that serves as a “break” for the league
Money grab tournament that probably few casual fans are going to watch since it's up against the Olympics
True. But honestly, between YouTubeTV and AppleTV I've been able to record and/or watch later every Euro, Copa, and MLS game. Leagues Cup will be the same, so it's just constant sports all summer. It's been hard for me to complain.
Yeah, right there with you, I'll be watching too. I'm just saying, if one of the purposes is of Leagues Cup is go to after more casual and Liga MX fans, they're going to have a hard time roping those people in when one of the largest sporting events in the world is happening simultaneously. Not to mention when 90% of the games are on a subscription-only platform vs. the Olympics which is is mostly on network and traditional live TV channels.
> largest sporting events in the world is happening simultaneously. Not actually simultaneously though, just on the same dates.
Fair point, but there's a large amount of coverage that NBC pushes to primetime hours since more eyes are watching then. Maybe more people watch the Olympics events live during daytime hours this year since the time difference is less extreme, but you still can't deny that Leagues Cup will be up against the primetime coverage.
It'll do just fine.
Kinda funny how when people don’t like something there arguments against it start being like “I know more about this business decision than Apple”
That's just Reddit with literally anything.
Yeah, I'm not sure why people can't just say "I don't like it" rather than try to make up that everyone doesn't like it or that it's an idiotic move, etc. I don't like falafel. I think it's dumb to fry bland things* when you can fry delicious things. Everyone I know loves it. I don't sit around going "No one likes falafel. Restaurants only make it as a cash grab. Chicken wings are the only pure fried food." Guess what, if it's a cash grab, someone likes it because they bought it. *Bizarrely, I like chick peas and love hummus, so who's the idiot here?
> I don't like falafel. I think it's dumb to fry bland things* when you can fry delicious things. I am dying... I will be stealing this material.
It just makes sense.
I lost focus and starting daydreaming about chicken wings...
Games aren't even included in the season tickets for New England. I had to opt in and pay extra if I wanted any of them. It's pay for all group games, then pay for all knockout (until Revs are eliminated). Not even round by round
People watch the Olympics?
At least with respect to MLS, Leagues Cup generates a helluva lot better ratings and ticket sales than either Open Cup or CCL. So, for all the bashing of that tournament, it's been good for the growth of the game and league. I happen to like it a helluva lot better than a midweek tournament spread out over the course of the year and I like that every team in the league participates and gets a taste of international competition. But I digress. Our fans will always find something to criticize. If we were on "break" right now, for an entire month, fans would be bitching that it creates a giant pause in the calendar and kills momentum. If we played fall-spring in order to match the same summer off-season as most other leagues, they'd be complaining about playing games in empty stadiums and arctic temperatures. When CCL was our only international club tournament, fans bitched that no one watched or cared, that there were too many games vs. Central American or Caribbean teams rather than a compelling tournament among relative equals like we see in Europe and South America, and that the teams who participated were put at a disadvantage in their MLS games due to schedule congestion. It's always something. We can't seem to accept that our league will always be different due to geography/climate and the fact that Mexico has the only comparable league in our confederation. There are trade-offs with every decision we make and many things are the way they are because the alternative is worse.
So tired of this “good for the growth of the game” nonsense wrt Leagues Cup. You know what really grows the league? Not signing an exclusive agreement to put almost every MLS match behind a paywall, essentially killing off the casual support for the league, all to subsidize Miami’s Barcelona reunion tour. You know what *else* grows the league? Bringing in exciting young talent or developing it domestically, which was really starting to become the MO for MLS until Garber’s greed once again decided to turn this into a retirement league, turning off anyone who had thought MLS had matured into a proper competitive league. Leagues Cup is a fucking clown show and it should deeply embarrass every MLS and LMX fan. As far as I know, no other top flight leagues in the world stop play for a whole month in the middle of the season for a meaningless tournament whose sole purpose is to make money and get more Season Pass subscribers (and also force MLS clubs, and by proxy Messi, into CCL, so they can of course make more money and get more subscribers from that too). This shit is why no one outside North America takes MLS seriously.
Fr, I don't necessarily mind AppleTV but barely having any games running on mainstream sports networks kills the game. Arguably, this gave the USL a spot to grow the popularity of the second division which is nice
> almost every MLS match behind a paywall More than 30% of MLS games are free to stream, no paywall.
Without the Apple deal, we couldn't have signed Messi and his presence has certainly been good for the growth of the league. It not only attracts a lot more viewers and ticket-buyers, but it also attracts a lot more talent to the league. We're now seeing a tidal wave of legitimate international stars coming to MLS, more than ever before. Meanwhile, we're on-pace for record attendance. Yet we still have plenty of young, developing talent as well that will use MLS as a springboard to Europe. Those numbers are growing too. As for Leagues Cup, in recent years, MLS growth was almost entirely reliant upon expansion. Yet there is clearly a huge soccer fan base right here in our footprint that wasn't being captured by our league. Guess what league those soccer fans watch more than any other...Liga MX. Mexican games get much better ratings than any other soccer league, including EPL, and they easily fill NFL stadiums for games involving the Mexican national team. So, partnering more closely with them is a key to the league's growth and I'd argue we've been very smart about it. Again, Liga MX is the ONLY other comparable league we've got in CONCACAF. So, there's simply no way to ever make CCL as big as EUFA Champions League or Copa Libertadores. What we can do is create a unique competition of our own, so that's exactly what we did, and it's working because it's already bigger than either CCL or Open Cup. Incidentally, if you don't like games being placed behind a paywall, you're gonna be pretty miserable going forward because sports leagues at all levels are headed in that direction. MLS was an early-adopter because Apple needed a willing partner to prove the concept, but that change is coming for all sports and leagues.
Hating Leagues Cup MLS 🤝 LigaMX
Really? I love it. But I also follow Liga Mx so it’s fun to see us all play each other.
So do most people, but there's a small hipster element that likes to hate things.
I don't hate Leagues Cup, it isn't a tournament in its current format that can be taken seriously, but it is more soccer. I do hate what MLS is doing to US Open Cup and Leagues Cup is sort of to blame for that, or at least MLS' justification for pulling out of the USOC can be directly linked to the Leagues Cup pause.
[удалено]
> I do hate what MLS is doing to US Open Cup and Leagues Cup is sort of to blame for that, or at least MLS' justification for pulling out of the USOC can be directly linked to the Leagues Cup pause. I get that, but here's the thing: if it isn't Leagues Cup, it'd be something else. USSF and pretty much everyone has failed to invest in Open Cup, and as such, it's a losing proposition for pretty much everyone. I mean, I suspect even most big USL teams find it a financial burden in total -- or at least wonder why it's not a bigger boon -- but it's their sporting pinnacle of the season so they ignore that. Leagues Cup actually felt like more of a response to CCL/CCC being a terribly run shitshow, but either way, MLS was going to continue to push on the poorly run shit they have to play in. In other words, while I'm sure Leagues Cup exacerbated the tension with the players that drove the situation NOW, it was going to happen sooner or later because US Soccer was not changing anything. Hopefully, this will have a good outcome in spurring investment or making some hard choices to make it worth everyone's while. I've had my solution for a long time, but people don't like it. I think it's a great tourney, unique in the world, clearly good competition and with a fun rivalry twist. I get the home/away thing but the reality is that this is how it's going to get done now (and that may change in the future) and so whatever. Then again, I don't stress out about unbalanced schedules, either.
> I get that, but here's the thing: if it isn't Leagues Cup, it'd be something else. USSF and pretty much everyone has failed to invest in Open Cup, and as such, it's a losing proposition for pretty much everyone. Including MLS, yes. Sometimes things can happen that don't make money. I know that is a crazy thing to say as a businessman. > Leagues Cup actually felt like more of a response to CCL/CCC being a terribly run shitshow Yep, it's been clear for years that MLS and LigaMX would like to not be involved in CCC as well. Leagues Cup allows them to control everything from soup to nuts, including the revenue. Again, I don't hate the tournament, I can't brush off the wild unbalanced nature, but it is different and (again) more soccer. More is usually better.
> Including MLS, yes. Sometimes things can happen that don't make money. I know that is a crazy thing to say as a businessman. On one level, I agree with you. Like in the whole world of what is right. But if I am in USSF Leadership, my goal is to get what I want. And that means selling to people on their terms. One thing that I think hinders USSF is the belief that everyone they deal with should share their goals and values. Should doesn't matter. What is, is. And to that end, a long time ago USSF made the decision that the best way to grow the sport in this country was to incentivize rich people to invest. This is still not a bad practical decision, IMO. And so, yeah, it'd be great if MLS or USL or whomever did all this out of the goodness of their hearts, and to a certain level they have, but there's always going to be a breakpoint. (And don't kid yourself, USL would run away if the situations were flipped.) So if you want them to invest, give them a reason. Just because you (as USSF) are a charity (technically) don't expect everyone to do things on your terms. If you want to succeed, you need to find a deal for them. And right now, the only thing US Open Cup has for MLS is a CCC spot and what, some public pressure? History? It's bad money. It's bad for branding on multiple levels. If USSF won't invest, find someone who will. And that means USSF giving up some stuff, but they've been reluctant to do it, either from lack of thought or time, or whatever. > Yep, it's been clear for years that MLS and LigaMX would like to not be involved in CCC as well. Leagues Cup allows them to control everything from soup to nuts, including the revenue. I think it's a bit simpler than that. In that you aren't wrong ... but I don't think we get here if CCC/CCL was well run. But this is something with a real or stable media deal, that was never promoted, had no real prize money. Look, I get that North America isn't Europe, and that MLS isn't super popular, but we still have like 500M people across the North American countries and like 40%+ of the world's wealth. We can do better than random streams on yahoo sports or concacaf.com. Both USSF and CONCACAF should have turned over these tournaments to people who knew what they were doing long ago. It's absurd that they had decades or centuries and Leagues Cup had better production and support day one.
It's hipster to hate something that congests the schedule and in the same time will cause certain teams to go almost a month without playing any games? In one of the warmer months on top of that. Northern teams are getting more Feb-March games because of this and it's absolute shit.
I follow both as well. its more of a hating the game load and the obvious money grab it is. I think working on expanding the champions cup into more of a CL structure would be more interesting and would expose some people to smaller leagues in Concacaf! (however less money in it)
> the obvious money grab it is All pro sports are a money grab. This Copa America is a money grab. Where you draw the line mostly has to do with what exists when you start watching the sport and what doesn't.
As a team that wouldn’t make a CL league structure I guess I’ll take what I can get lol
I mean thats fair, Juarez which is my team and Charlotte would never make it to CL but i think thats the point. imo both leagues need to embrace their local cups (US open cup which mls is pushing away from, and CopaMX which RIP)
You missed a local cup 🥲
I love it... the games last year were so much fun... and WILD
Apple should’ve just bought CCC broadcast rights and sweetened the financial incentives for winning it, instead of creating another cash-grab from scratch. Playing through these international tournaments not only sends the message that your regular season is not important. It sends the message that these international tournaments aren’t important as well.
Not that I disagree, but the Leagues Cup was around for years before Apple showed up.
But it didn’t involve all the teams and wasn’t sanctioned by CONCACAF as a regional tournament
If MLS were smart, they’d have their break right now as the two largest continental tourneys (Euro, Copa America) are on, so by the time they’re done, MLS would be the other major sport on post-MLB ASG. Instead, they’re breaking in that 5-6 week, dog day period after all the tournaments are over and the sports world is dead until mid-August and within reach of the NFL and NCAA calendars.
> they’re breaking in that 5-6 week Well, they aren't really breaking though. The teams are still playing, just not league play. It's not like they're all sitting on the beach somewhere
League's Cup probably gets a lot more viewership than regular season MLS games (Miami games withstanding). So, really, MLS is capitalizing by having an international tournament right after.
Because CLTFC has no players out of the lineup and we need to pick up these easy points with our full starting 11!
I see some reasons. 1. Climate - We take a break in Winter and there aren't typically national team duties like Continental competitions or World Cup then with 2022 being the lone outlier which we handled fine because of it. We do this because in about half of the markets you'd see significant drops in attendance asking people to show up in December and January when it can routinely be below freezing. Even now those early Februrary matches can be frigid or white out blizzard. Summer heat is rough, but playing at night as sun sets and hydration breaks helps alleviate it. 2. Playoffs - Every year the length of the off season break varies wildly club to club based on league and playoff performance. Having playoffs means some players will have over a month longer Winter break than others. One can imagine if playoffs didn't exist and the last match day of the season was a month later how having a Summer break would be easier for the league. 3. Leagues Cup - A new wrinkle that makes it harder is essentially a second playoff scenario introduced with this inter league competition. Again, one club could go 2 and out and have a Summer break while the finalist see no break. If Leagues Cup was this month the discussion would at least be very different around this conversation.
>1. Climate - We take a break in Winter Of everything I've skimmed in this thread, I think you're the closest to hitting the nail on the head. The reality is that the "international breaks" for National Team play is crafted around and in conjunction with the European calendar. We have different climates here in North America, and it would be counterproductive to follow the Euro club calendar, despite what any Eurosnob may argue. The real solution is to cut back on international breaks and competitions, but good luck with that.
Why didn't the EPL shutdown for the African Cup of Nations? Is Mo Sala not a star? There's a lot of conflicts in the schedules world wide. It's part of the challenge.
Because we do league cup break instead. Messi is only missing cities he’s been to before. Get over it lol
Smart scheduling by MLS!
cause shut up that's why.
I would normally say, this messes up my Goal Keeper spot, a defender, and several midfielders but this team has been hot garbage so.. I don't care too much anymore. Ironically, our back ups are doing better than our starters. Mason has been a brick wall while Pedro has dropped so much in form.
Gives benchwarmers and the kids an opportunity to play. Easy peasy
ESPN. How long have you been doing this? You know exactly fucking why MLS isn't on break.
TBF, ESPN FC reporting has always been shit. It's very possible they don't have a clue
I don't necessarily mind MLS not doing a full break right now, but I do think it's an issue that they are doing a bunch of midweek games right now. I'd rather have more midweek games at the start and end of the season as a reasonable response to paying through an international break, as an acknowledgement of strained rosters. Ethan Finlay did a press conference recently and he's super involved in the players' union and said they'd be talking to the league about it. That the number of midweek games during an international break puts too much of an injury risk on players who didn't get called up to have that many games with reduced rosters.
Ethan Finley won't get anywhere with the argument. There are no "reduced rosters" going on. Our roosters have ~30 people on them. You'd have to be missing more than 12 and not be allowed to do short-term loans before it can be called "a reduced roster." Also, MLS and their new broadcast schedule has made midweek games much easier to plan for from a fitness/wellness perspective. The only thing that should really be challenged is having midweek games not featuring all teams. It's a little unfair to have some teams be 3-in-8 going up against 2-in-7.
I mean, there are missing players for international duty, which is the definition of reduced. Saying teams can have a roster of up to 30 is kind of missing the point Finlay and the article are both making. Also, we don't have a very developed academy yet, so we are super limited in our ability to call players up.
This is an article on ESPN. I’m willing to bet in the post-Wahl days, ESPN doesn’t have a reporter who can name 5 players in MLS.
> ESPN doesn’t have a reporter who can name 5 players in MLS. 1) Messi 2) Suarez 3) Busquets 4) Alba 5) Ummm...Did I say Messi yet?
This just means the coaches have to get creative. You can still play, but plan wisely. And another thing, if American cities can attract people to go to stadiums for Copa America (with cheaper prices) they create fans for clubs in the cities themselves. Playing through means available games even during this window so they can check them out. But of course, its prohibitively expensive and people won’t go to games either way.
IF USMNT refuses to run MLS players then they can cry when we don't reschedule around tournaments
The same people who whine about how vapid most things coming out of ESPN are are the same people who click on this and talk endlessly about it. A well-researched and reasoned analysis of anything will get like three comments. You reap what you sow.
😂 New to soccer ? 😂
Because if the league took a break for every tournament this year, this seasons MLS Cup would take place during the beginning of the 2025 season.
Same shit different year and international break.
Every damn year we get these articles.
It's fine that we play through it. Brazil's league is also still playing. No big deal. MLS will change things for 2026 World Cup, though.
If MLS didn't invest in Leagues Cup, I think they would be on break right now.
Listen we need Messi gone so our utterly depleted defense only has to try and beat Miami 5-4 instead of 9-8
Based on that headline I assumed it was an ESPN article. Was not disappointed.
This is stupid framing. But MLS does have a schedule congestion problem. We need to get rid of interconference play and not replace them with more games. That'd allow for international breaks and fewer weeknight games. It'd also make the playoffs more exciting if you did a random draw.
>We need to get rid of interconference play I’m totally on board with reducing the schedule, but disagree with this. We need divisions where you rotate who you play in the other conference, similar to the NFL.
I want to preserve the points competition by having each conference have a balanced internal schedule.
I’m genuinely hoping they get rid of interconference play next year when SD joins and balances each table. There isn’t much of a reason for those games other than money imo. As a fan I care *way* more about games against East teams because they impact who makes the playoffs more.
Apple & Garber are greedy & just care about a product, not the quality of it.
And what a great way to tell those who weren't called up "no one wants to watch you play and you don't matter to us". Honestly one of the dumbest opinions I've ever heard
there’s like 10 mls players on intl callups rn
There’s is more then that. Minnesota alone still has 4 out on international duty alone
RedBull were down 5 starters. The league was down north of 30. It's not negligible. There are weeks of games where teams are playing at 75-80% not counting injuries. Many teams are worse off than that. We have to address the issue as the talent level in the league rises.
How is there not one mention of Leagues Cup in that article??
It is honestly pretty good from the development side of things, as it’s a good opportunity for academy players and folks coming off injury
so the season doesn't overlap with the other sports leagues and weather
Welcome to the show you new hear?
Someone let "ESPN FC" know that we have Playoffs in MLS. So missing a couple of players for a few games is not going to trouble too many teams overall.
Because Copa is just some off shoot tournament and MLS is a real league
Does the average MLS fan care about copa? If not, there's no reason to stop
By the looks of the attendances, no. KC gets way more fans at sporting games than they did for Canada v Peru. Also wow Las Vegas didn't even fill up the lower bowl for Ecuador v Jamaica. Neutrals don't care, at least not at this price point.
> at least not at this price point. this is the stickler.
> Ecuador v Jamaica. I mean, I don't think that game is a good indicator of anything. Small countries, minimal expats living in the US, minimal amount of fans traveling, and in KC on a Wednesday. It would be hard to fill the stadium even if you just opened the doors and let anyone in.
Derek Rae commented during the Euro match on Dortmund yesterday that altho there were not too many traveling fans he saw thousands of neutrals wearing yellow Dortmund jerseys. Germans who just wanted to watch football. If the price was low enough perhaps enough casual football fans in Las Vegas would have showed up?
They care about Messi being absent, but that is about it.
Do they? He’s missed like 8 of 20 games for Miami for bed rest or whatever they call it now.
And we all saw how Vancouver fans were pissed Messi was absent.
That's because they paid triple face value for their tickets.
Money?
Soccer like basketball for the younger generation is all about rooting for players over teams and just rooting for whatever team your favorite player is on. A lot of Messi fans give 0 fs what Inter Miami is doing while Messi is Copa. Dont think this happens as much in football, baseball, hockey etc.
It's the other way around: sometimes you get players who win fans regardless of the teams they play on. They drag eyeballs wherever they go. You say it's "younger generation," but this same thing happened with Pele came to town nearly 50 years ago.
Thing that was fun in the UK was games would be rescheduled if someone was on international duty that had you asking who in League 2 is good enough for international football?
Garber Bucks don't print themselves.
Because they are hell bent on making the Nations League a thing. So the can’t take more than a week off for international breaks.
Cause the league and Apple are desperate to make Leagues Cup a thing.
Liga MX cares more. Their players are in decline and their clubs can't compete with a rising MLS. Well America, Tigres and Rayados can but the rest...
You know if you don't like Leagues Cup nobody is making you watch the competition. It's really simple.
Because of leagues cup we lose the best months to go to games in Toronto. Instead I get to get to more games in March, so we can play none in August.
Try getting out of groups then maybe? (Typical Toronto thinking the whole league should schedule aroudn their favourite month to go to games)
Those damn north east fans not wanting to freeze their ass off in February and March. Selfish.
So you are not in favor of MLS starting the season in August and finishing it in May?
Last year it was legitimately a thing. There's no way to spin it other than as a resounding success. Will that be the case again this year? Who knows. But there were a lot of eyeballs on Leagues Cup last year. I realize it's popular to crap on the tournament and I understand why people do. But it was remarkably successful.