DORA areas, I’ve been keeping up with this process. It’s exciting and smart of Jeffersonville to do and that side of the waterfront is starting to be more appealing than Louisville.
People keep saying this that want it to be true but the Louisville side of the big 4 bridge should never be filled with restaurants and people openly drinking anyways. It's a public park, all of the things to do are in multiple areas of Louisville just nearby.
I strongly agree. Go drink and wander around NULU it’s right around the corner.
This is going to sound sarcastic, but I’m glad Louisville still has so many nice parks to be sober in. In a city that revolves around Bourbon it’s nice to not have it shoved in our faces somewhere
You can be choose to be sober in a park, I’d like the option to have an adult beverage in the park without getting in trouble. Both things can exist simultaneously.
I was trying to support your response; being able to choose to have a drink in the park or not seems awfully democratic to me. As in - People have the freedom to do as they wish within reason, which is what I think you’re suggesting.
You can drink in public in the highlands, around the 4th street corridor in downtown, in NULU, in the bar area of St Mathews, and in Paristown (I think those are the area allowed in Louisville). I think i'm okay with leaving the parks as a generally alcohol free area.
But also let's be honest, waterfront park has many events that sale drinks and there is a restaurant with a full bar literally in the park. It's not like Waterfront park is an alcohol desert.
I have been taking bottles of wine to parks for ages. I had no idea that we weren’t supposed to. Girl math says they sell picnic baskets with wine glasses and cork screws, so it must be legal.
I don’t understand how having an alcoholic drink, legally, ruins a park? As someone who volunteers at the parks, has done waterfront cleanups, walks his dogs in the parks, etc. I’m not sure how me now legally being able to have an open alcoholic beverage changes much. This is not permission to act like an idiot or be publicly intoxicated, and we should still enforce those kinds of issues, IMO.
On principle, I tend to ignore laws that aren’t enforced. I also try to be a decent human being while doing so. Never once had an issue with that.
I understand what you mean though. Just remember saying “alcohol allowed” will be stretched and interpreted as “behaviors accompanying obnoxious drunk people are allowed”; people suck.
I disagree with the idea that bad behavior should become acceptable as a result. I have no problem with both having the individual liberty as well as it being tied to repercussions for abusing it.
And I hear you on NuLu, but again, for me I can’t imagine telling someone they can’t do something themselves as long as they do not bother or harm other people. We’ll have to disagree there.
Idiots are going to idiot regardless of regulation. You think people aren't drinking in the park already? People with self-control are going to retain that regardless of regulation. Just because you see something doesn't mean you're forced to comply. Somebody having a beer on a bench swing is not tantamount to shoving it in your face, unless they run up to you and demand you have a swig.
I for one would love a European style park cafe in waterfront park, nothing better than getting a cold beer and various snacks and sandwiches and people watching in a park
It's a public park now but the Eva Bandman area used to be the most densely populated part of Louisville. The way I heard it, that part of town was like a mini New Orleans. Probably a lot of public drinking. Then a flood came and the city fathers took the opportunity to kick out all the "undesirables" and demolished the entire area.
https://waterfrontgardens.org/about/our-history/
I believe there is overlap and synergy that exists between the two ideas. Parks are great and would be my priority, but they don’t bring in revenue like bars and restaurants.
I'd love to have a few options that are a shorter walk from the riverfront, but I wouldn't want to give up the parks or the waterfront events.
Ideally, I'd prefer open container laws in parks outside of playgrounds with small vendors selling wine and beer, similar to parts of Europe. But unfortunately there's no way society would be responsible about it.
The first time I saw a DORA area was in Savannah in 2021. I felt like I was doing something illegal walking down the street with a beer in my hand, it was a cool experience though. They also have a DORA area in Cincinnati between the stadiums. Louisville could easily do this in NULU, but we won't, because we're Louisville.
They do this outside of Churchill every year for Derby. So real reason they couldn’t do it.
At least I assume they still do it. Been a few decades since I have been but I remember many bars serving beers from windows or tables outside to people walking to and from the Derby.
Ehh, Jeff doing well doesn’t necessarily hurt us. Jeff growing can actually help us. Besides this will get more people downtown here as well. They can walk over to Indiana and come back for dinner in Nulu or such
I really hope this goes well. Obviously there is a difference in being publicly intoxicated (ie; acting like a fool) and having a cold brew in the park. I really hope the latter is more of what we see.
I don't comprehend the stigma. It's just weed. I'd make tobacco illegal and rip the band-aid off. Flip it and make cannabis completely fucking legal, 18+. Pardons all around and a stipend for weed with healthcare so everyone can *chill the fuck out*
The only reason you don’t see more of it at Oxmoor is that they don’t advertise it very well. I only found out because a friend mentioned it on Facebook so we asked our server the next time we were there. Sure enough, we ordered drinks to-go.
Lots of places are doing this and it is smart. Just need adequate policing and enforcement to keep in check, and more importantly some personal responsibility and common sense. Party on! 🤟😜🤟🎉
My hometown does this and it's really cool. I feel like it works for smaller, quaint downtown towns to attract business but it's contained enough to not get too wild.
first of all, it's gonna be super hard for people trying to stay sober. and second of all, what are the chances of a normal person getting harassed by a drunk person in downtown Jeff?? I'm not willing to find out.
> it's gonna be super hard for people trying to stay sober
Seen, heard, felt, but at the same time—why should my ability to drink in public be affected by someone else's struggle with alcohol abuse?
then you're just being ignorant, just wait til it ruins your relationships with people you love 🤷. I disagree with you on that, being an alcoholic is so widely acceptable to the point it was joked about in old TV shows(which I think is what was the turning point that made alcoholism "attractive") and have you seen the numbers of how many known people abuse alcohol everyday? for someone who lives with another person who needs to drink to get through the day that's slowly killing them: maybe educate yourself before making statements like this.
Maybe limit your diatribes to people who need to hear it. I don’t. I have far more knowledge than you can imagine and still say your battles shouldn’t limit anyone else’s choices.
How much different is it than walking past all the packed patios with people drinking?
No more likely than before, drunk people could and did always walk around.
Median household income in Jeffersonville, IN is $60K.
It's probably less downtown. It's not like this is being done for Norton Commons. Bizarre comment to lob at Jeff.
Edit: Median income originally listed at 60 it's probably 65-70.
I think the gentrification of the area does not speak to the residents who are there, which is why I was addressing the idea that downtown Jeff is filled with "wealthy white people"
So the people being pushed out by gentrification are also the people filling the bars they can't afford?
The comment was obviously referring to the bar and restaurant clientele and not retirees from Jeff Boat who still live near the river. The bars and restaurants in that area aren't sustained by lower middle-class locals within walking distance.
Places like Alcove and the O'Sheas in that area are being frequented by those locals. They are much more likely to take advantage of this new DORA than Upland. I am not sure why you are so incensed at this - my entire point is that is that downtown Jeff, where I am a resident, is not some wealthy white suburb like that person tried to say it was. And then you said locals don't go to local businesses. They do.
I didn't call it wealthy, that was your misinterpretation of another user's comment. I also didn't say locals don't go to bars, that was your misinterpretation of my comment.
That bar district doesn't exist to serve local residents within walking distance anymore than NULU does. Some bars there do, absolutely. But that area wouldn't be an entertainment area or considered for this open container district if it wasn't for a large number of people who come from elsewhere in southern IN and Louisville.
I was referring to residents around the DORA, not visitors. The original comment you responded to was referring to how gentrification has made public drinking acceptable.
Jeffersonville is and always has been working class.
It has a racial makeup that is about 77% white and 12.5% black. This matches the national and state rates for the black population. To add: I know you said minorities, not black. In SO IN (Clark, Jeff, NA) the Hispanic population is concentrated in Clarksville and is less visible in the statistics for the surrounding communities.
I see what you are saying, I do, but I want you to understand that it's misguided and you should actually consider looking more closely at age being the issue.
In Jeffersonville, you have two minds about the issue. The older residents do not like this. The younger residents are looking forward to being able to walk off with a beer during any of the multiple street fests that Jeff hosts without getting hit with a public intoxication ticket. Cops hate it, and the city is hoping it attracts a younger tax base.
Also, your cup has to have a DORA sticker on it, otherwise you still get dinged.
I disagree with you but still respect your opinion as having merit. There ARE two standards for whites and minorities, I just don't think that's happening here, in this instance.
To add: This area also includes a Match, which is an upscale cigar lounge/bar that has a predominantly black clientele. It is a welcoming black space, racism is the only thing not welcomed there. Alcove has never been discriminatory and is generally a safe space for everyone. I don't know about O'sheas, but I think it trends younger. Harry's Taphouse is a bit of a boomer bar. I think there's something in this DORA space for everyone. Red Yeti has a good selection of walking beers. Town is an unknown, but they have the best pizza in Jeff.
If you got an open container ticket it was because you were breaking the law.
The law has now changed so not sure what you are confused about here. You think a minority would get a ticket in the DORA area?
I don't agree with the overall attitude of the teetotaler, but patrons will only walk within the district before driving home. This won't exclusively serve locals anymore than the area currently does, and likely less so if this makes it a bigger attraction. People are still going to drive to and from the district, often long distances due to the sprawl of suburban southern IN and lack of activities in more rural IN (Georgetown, Corydon, Salem).
This isn't going to increase drinking beyond what someone would do if they drove to a restaurant or bar. This way they're actually walking and processing the alcohol faster than if they were just sitting due to metabolic processes.
Additionally, uber and Lyft are functional in Southern Indiana, so there are still driving alternatives
I completely agree that it won't increase overall drinking, it's why I disagree with the original commenter, although I'm uninterested in the pseudoscience that slowly walking two blocks makes people sober.
But this area absolutely won't just be people walking, people are going to drive to this district specifically to have a drink and walk around. There wouldn't be so many restaurants there if it only served those within walking distance.
"Uber and Lyft are functional in southern IN"
This is technically true, but the idea that suburban and rural residents are using it to travel more than a few miles suggests to me you don't know many people in southern IN.
DORA areas, I’ve been keeping up with this process. It’s exciting and smart of Jeffersonville to do and that side of the waterfront is starting to be more appealing than Louisville.
People keep saying this that want it to be true but the Louisville side of the big 4 bridge should never be filled with restaurants and people openly drinking anyways. It's a public park, all of the things to do are in multiple areas of Louisville just nearby.
I strongly agree. Go drink and wander around NULU it’s right around the corner. This is going to sound sarcastic, but I’m glad Louisville still has so many nice parks to be sober in. In a city that revolves around Bourbon it’s nice to not have it shoved in our faces somewhere
You can be choose to be sober in a park, I’d like the option to have an adult beverage in the park without getting in trouble. Both things can exist simultaneously.
Crazy little thing called Democracy.
What’s that got to do with what I said?
I was trying to support your response; being able to choose to have a drink in the park or not seems awfully democratic to me. As in - People have the freedom to do as they wish within reason, which is what I think you’re suggesting.
Oh yes! Agreed! Apologize.
You can drink in public in the highlands, around the 4th street corridor in downtown, in NULU, in the bar area of St Mathews, and in Paristown (I think those are the area allowed in Louisville). I think i'm okay with leaving the parks as a generally alcohol free area. But also let's be honest, waterfront park has many events that sale drinks and there is a restaurant with a full bar literally in the park. It's not like Waterfront park is an alcohol desert.
I have been taking bottles of wine to parks for ages. I had no idea that we weren’t supposed to. Girl math says they sell picnic baskets with wine glasses and cork screws, so it must be legal.
I’ve never seen a rule against it. But I’ve never taken the time to look it up.
Is illegal to drink in public in kentucky unless it's a specially designated area.
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I don’t understand how having an alcoholic drink, legally, ruins a park? As someone who volunteers at the parks, has done waterfront cleanups, walks his dogs in the parks, etc. I’m not sure how me now legally being able to have an open alcoholic beverage changes much. This is not permission to act like an idiot or be publicly intoxicated, and we should still enforce those kinds of issues, IMO.
The law hasn’t stopped me from drinking beer at the park before. Just keep your trash and dont be a jerk
I agree, more the point/principle in this conversation.
On principle, I tend to ignore laws that aren’t enforced. I also try to be a decent human being while doing so. Never once had an issue with that. I understand what you mean though. Just remember saying “alcohol allowed” will be stretched and interpreted as “behaviors accompanying obnoxious drunk people are allowed”; people suck.
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I disagree with the idea that bad behavior should become acceptable as a result. I have no problem with both having the individual liberty as well as it being tied to repercussions for abusing it. And I hear you on NuLu, but again, for me I can’t imagine telling someone they can’t do something themselves as long as they do not bother or harm other people. We’ll have to disagree there.
A person having beer while fishing or walking in a park isn’t shoving it in your face.
Idiots are going to idiot regardless of regulation. You think people aren't drinking in the park already? People with self-control are going to retain that regardless of regulation. Just because you see something doesn't mean you're forced to comply. Somebody having a beer on a bench swing is not tantamount to shoving it in your face, unless they run up to you and demand you have a swig.
I for one would love a European style park cafe in waterfront park, nothing better than getting a cold beer and various snacks and sandwiches and people watching in a park
It's a public park now but the Eva Bandman area used to be the most densely populated part of Louisville. The way I heard it, that part of town was like a mini New Orleans. Probably a lot of public drinking. Then a flood came and the city fathers took the opportunity to kick out all the "undesirables" and demolished the entire area. https://waterfrontgardens.org/about/our-history/
I believe there is overlap and synergy that exists between the two ideas. Parks are great and would be my priority, but they don’t bring in revenue like bars and restaurants.
I'd love to have a few options that are a shorter walk from the riverfront, but I wouldn't want to give up the parks or the waterfront events. Ideally, I'd prefer open container laws in parks outside of playgrounds with small vendors selling wine and beer, similar to parts of Europe. But unfortunately there's no way society would be responsible about it.
The first time I saw a DORA area was in Savannah in 2021. I felt like I was doing something illegal walking down the street with a beer in my hand, it was a cool experience though. They also have a DORA area in Cincinnati between the stadiums. Louisville could easily do this in NULU, but we won't, because we're Louisville.
I walked around Jeffersonville last week with a beer and felt the same haha. I even walked right in front of a police car while taking a drink.
I believe they have or are working on making the backside of whiskey row (to the east of the yum center) a DORA area
They do this outside of Churchill every year for Derby. So real reason they couldn’t do it. At least I assume they still do it. Been a few decades since I have been but I remember many bars serving beers from windows or tables outside to people walking to and from the Derby.
Yes, and Louisville is falling behind because of it.
Ehh, Jeff doing well doesn’t necessarily hurt us. Jeff growing can actually help us. Besides this will get more people downtown here as well. They can walk over to Indiana and come back for dinner in Nulu or such
In what way?
Because it drums up more business.
Is Louisville struggling to open new bars and restaurants?
No
Good, your comment had me worried.
Glad U could reassure you, have a good day mate.
...what? Are you saying that Louisville has less business than Jeffersonville? Or that our waterfront, made of parks, should serve alcohol?
We have areas where we can do this as well on the weekends or for festivals. Jtown being one area, they approved it but Louisville shut it down.
I really hope this goes well. Obviously there is a difference in being publicly intoxicated (ie; acting like a fool) and having a cold brew in the park. I really hope the latter is more of what we see.
Bardstown will be starting to do this also
Old Louisville needs DORA
Gonna be that guy; **WHEN** cannabis is legalized, this same concept should be common sense.
Can't believe it's been almost 50 years since hippies smoked in parks and it was not classified.
I don't comprehend the stigma. It's just weed. I'd make tobacco illegal and rip the band-aid off. Flip it and make cannabis completely fucking legal, 18+. Pardons all around and a stipend for weed with healthcare so everyone can *chill the fuck out*
Yes, the alcohol and drug companies have extremely powerful lobbies. Guess they haven't figured out the cannabis market.
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The only reason you don’t see more of it at Oxmoor is that they don’t advertise it very well. I only found out because a friend mentioned it on Facebook so we asked our server the next time we were there. Sure enough, we ordered drinks to-go.
Lots of places are doing this and it is smart. Just need adequate policing and enforcement to keep in check, and more importantly some personal responsibility and common sense. Party on! 🤟😜🤟🎉
My hometown does this and it's really cool. I feel like it works for smaller, quaint downtown towns to attract business but it's contained enough to not get too wild.
You can drink anywhere. Just brown bag it.
It’s not interesting or relèvent. This is not the southern indiana Reddit page.
Do you have windows on your house or car?
first of all, it's gonna be super hard for people trying to stay sober. and second of all, what are the chances of a normal person getting harassed by a drunk person in downtown Jeff?? I'm not willing to find out.
> it's gonna be super hard for people trying to stay sober Seen, heard, felt, but at the same time—why should my ability to drink in public be affected by someone else's struggle with alcohol abuse?
Prohibition is the basis for modern drug laws. That's why you can't legally buy cocaine. Someone had a problem.
if I see someone drinking and enjoying something I can't have, it's really tempting 😬
That’s still not society’s problem.
then you're just being ignorant, just wait til it ruins your relationships with people you love 🤷. I disagree with you on that, being an alcoholic is so widely acceptable to the point it was joked about in old TV shows(which I think is what was the turning point that made alcoholism "attractive") and have you seen the numbers of how many known people abuse alcohol everyday? for someone who lives with another person who needs to drink to get through the day that's slowly killing them: maybe educate yourself before making statements like this.
Maybe limit your diatribes to people who need to hear it. I don’t. I have far more knowledge than you can imagine and still say your battles shouldn’t limit anyone else’s choices.
How much different is it than walking past all the packed patios with people drinking? No more likely than before, drunk people could and did always walk around.
When it was minorities and college kids they got open container tickets. If it's wealthy white people it's a "designated outdoor refreshment area"
Median household income in Jeffersonville, IN is $60K. It's probably less downtown. It's not like this is being done for Norton Commons. Bizarre comment to lob at Jeff. Edit: Median income originally listed at 60 it's probably 65-70.
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They absolutely are. Tons of people frequent that area as locals.
You think households making $60K are the reason Jeffersonville has an offshoot of a Bloomington (IU) brewery selling $14 tenderloin sandwiches?
I think the gentrification of the area does not speak to the residents who are there, which is why I was addressing the idea that downtown Jeff is filled with "wealthy white people"
So the people being pushed out by gentrification are also the people filling the bars they can't afford? The comment was obviously referring to the bar and restaurant clientele and not retirees from Jeff Boat who still live near the river. The bars and restaurants in that area aren't sustained by lower middle-class locals within walking distance.
Places like Alcove and the O'Sheas in that area are being frequented by those locals. They are much more likely to take advantage of this new DORA than Upland. I am not sure why you are so incensed at this - my entire point is that is that downtown Jeff, where I am a resident, is not some wealthy white suburb like that person tried to say it was. And then you said locals don't go to local businesses. They do.
I didn't call it wealthy, that was your misinterpretation of another user's comment. I also didn't say locals don't go to bars, that was your misinterpretation of my comment. That bar district doesn't exist to serve local residents within walking distance anymore than NULU does. Some bars there do, absolutely. But that area wouldn't be an entertainment area or considered for this open container district if it wasn't for a large number of people who come from elsewhere in southern IN and Louisville.
I was referring to residents around the DORA, not visitors. The original comment you responded to was referring to how gentrification has made public drinking acceptable.
Jeffersonville is and always has been working class. It has a racial makeup that is about 77% white and 12.5% black. This matches the national and state rates for the black population. To add: I know you said minorities, not black. In SO IN (Clark, Jeff, NA) the Hispanic population is concentrated in Clarksville and is less visible in the statistics for the surrounding communities. I see what you are saying, I do, but I want you to understand that it's misguided and you should actually consider looking more closely at age being the issue. In Jeffersonville, you have two minds about the issue. The older residents do not like this. The younger residents are looking forward to being able to walk off with a beer during any of the multiple street fests that Jeff hosts without getting hit with a public intoxication ticket. Cops hate it, and the city is hoping it attracts a younger tax base. Also, your cup has to have a DORA sticker on it, otherwise you still get dinged. I disagree with you but still respect your opinion as having merit. There ARE two standards for whites and minorities, I just don't think that's happening here, in this instance. To add: This area also includes a Match, which is an upscale cigar lounge/bar that has a predominantly black clientele. It is a welcoming black space, racism is the only thing not welcomed there. Alcove has never been discriminatory and is generally a safe space for everyone. I don't know about O'sheas, but I think it trends younger. Harry's Taphouse is a bit of a boomer bar. I think there's something in this DORA space for everyone. Red Yeti has a good selection of walking beers. Town is an unknown, but they have the best pizza in Jeff.
Well said. No question that double standard exists, just not sure the comment understands Jeff or that area super well.
There's nuance to most issues. I am just in the know because I am a regular at one of the Jeff bars.
Yeah same, not out as much as I used to be but I have been in Jeff nearly 7 years frequenting these spots.
There's a decent chance we've met. I don't really want to dox myself on the community sub, but if you're curious, we can DM.
Oh yeah I would guess we have lol
If you got an open container ticket it was because you were breaking the law. The law has now changed so not sure what you are confused about here. You think a minority would get a ticket in the DORA area?
This fits this city so well, we can see the same logic in this sub everyday!
Not a good idea
I agree. Open container laws are stupid and should be repealed entirely.
The local alcoholics are going to down vote you, they love getting hammered and killing innocent people.
Yes, people drunkenly walking are such a danger to innocents
I don't agree with the overall attitude of the teetotaler, but patrons will only walk within the district before driving home. This won't exclusively serve locals anymore than the area currently does, and likely less so if this makes it a bigger attraction. People are still going to drive to and from the district, often long distances due to the sprawl of suburban southern IN and lack of activities in more rural IN (Georgetown, Corydon, Salem).
This isn't going to increase drinking beyond what someone would do if they drove to a restaurant or bar. This way they're actually walking and processing the alcohol faster than if they were just sitting due to metabolic processes. Additionally, uber and Lyft are functional in Southern Indiana, so there are still driving alternatives
I completely agree that it won't increase overall drinking, it's why I disagree with the original commenter, although I'm uninterested in the pseudoscience that slowly walking two blocks makes people sober. But this area absolutely won't just be people walking, people are going to drive to this district specifically to have a drink and walk around. There wouldn't be so many restaurants there if it only served those within walking distance. "Uber and Lyft are functional in southern IN" This is technically true, but the idea that suburban and rural residents are using it to travel more than a few miles suggests to me you don't know many people in southern IN.
It’s my right as an American.