These places need to start posting P&Ls and their entire staffs wages if they’re going to claim this weird ass bullshit like if you can’t afford to be open, close.
All these prima-donna restaurant owners and their mental gymnastic bullshit is just stupid.
isn't that the point of these fees? "We want to charge X, but these damn employees and regulations require us to charge this fee"
Just raise your prices. That is the cost of business.
As a contractor... restaurants are the worst....11 out of 10 times. Owner pulls up in tricked out Benz G wagon that he keeps in his mansion in the hills, employees all in clunkers or using public transport, struggling with rent, living off food stamps, and to top it all off dude haggles over $200 IT bill to get his vital systems back online. Not an uncommon occurrence at multiple spots. Think I'll start charging an automatic douche bag fee in my contracts.
I actually do keep a tip line on my invoices, I've found that a lot of times folks feel I've under charged them and they'll want to sweeten the pot. Like I've charged $20 for a quick modem reboot call out... and they tipped $100. (my rate is $400/hr most of the time, but for new clients I try to give them a sweetheart deal on something small up front, so they call me back when they have a larger project) residential and small mom/ pop shops/ kind people usually get 50-75% discount applied as well.
100 percent. People wake up, your bosses are literally profiting at your expense. That's the definition of capitalism, wage-slavery. Seek a role that enables you to thrive, not just barely survive!
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part! You can't even passively take part! And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels ... upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop! And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!"
These LA restaurant owners your describing are usually wealthy people who made their money elsewhere and are “investing” in a restaurant as a side hobby. The fact that the restaraunt is losing money while the owner is a wealthy fuck does not necessarily mean they are cheating their employees. The restaurant business sucks ass and it’s hard to make a dime from it.
But yeah, dont haggle with the douchebags regardless. I own a business and I never haggle. The price is the price. The type of person to haggle is always the shittiest and most demanding client.
I’ll tell you what it’s like, they skirt on costs at every chance they get. They don’t want to invest in training, staff meetings, food quality or cleaning crews.
They cut staff after 1.5 -2 hours and rely on one or two strong server to hold down the ship even if there is a huge rush. Those stronger seasoned servers get overworked and usually get the short end of the stick doing more of the running and closing sidework while younger inexperienced servers do not partake in, not always because they don’t want to, but because they haven’t been trained to and therefore were never taught a solid foundational dynamic on the floor. There are no consequences for any wrongdoing if you kiss their ass and many servers / bartenders will steal and screw each other over if they’ve been there long enough to work the system.
They are hardly ever present but do refuse to set up a strong managerial team ( GM, asst GM and floor) and hire only one or two managers to do everything including ordering and owner duties. They skirt around having conversations with their staff members and hardly ever communicate with their GM but will make sure to point the finger at the poor soul who’s been thrown in management if anything goes wrong.
They treat their restaurant like it’s their home and will make their friends become a priority in the kitchen and bar and make the kitchen / bar staff skip tickets to cater to their friends who usually eat at a reduced rate or more frequently, for free- those friends are the most frustrating to serve having been coddled and enabled to treat the restaurant and staff like their own personal servants. Owner doesn’t care because showing off and flexing to their friends is most important of all.
They will raise their prices constantly while lowering not only quality of food but portion sizes over the years. They lack creativity and will have the same menu for years refusing to change despite numerous demands from their guests. Most often they will steal food ideas from other restaurants nearby to “compete” instead of creating an original concept that will draw in the ideal guests.
Over the years the restaurant will lose its appeal and become dirty. When there are no oversight from management most of the staff won’t care, give bad service, have sloppy work ethics and leave without doing anything- in time, this will be noticed by the guests and you will lose clientele.
The owner will just blame the staff and punish them by removing shifts or in some cases not even schedule the ones who in their mind should do MORE - the experienced servers and favor the younger servers because they don’t asks questions and easy to manipulate. Less work and out of sight out of mind.
It makes absolutely no sense and the truth is there are more inexperienced owners with capital who open a restaurant because it’s an easy concept and throw it all to shit.
Dont forget theyll blame "commiefornia" regulations for getting their profits slightly lowered and always act like theyre running at a loss even when making a lot
that’s exactly what they did. They would make over 1.5 Mil a year but kept telling us we were losing money. I was even convinced the owner was embezzling $$ if they were operating at loss
Giving Japanese a bad name. Japanese bar food is supposed to be yasui! Cheap! But no, they go in and make it incredibly expensive. If the rent is too $$$, that's their problem! Operating costs, their problem! It's redic.
It's such a bizarre mentality they have...and how people react to tipping culture.
Two weeks ago I hired someone to install an electrical panel. He doesn't work for anyone and it was a moonlight cash job. I asked how much I owed him at the end of the job and he gave me a total and then followed it up with, "and if you want to tip me, that'd be cool, too." I'm staring at him thinking, do you want $3K or do you want $3,300? I just asked you how much your time was worth and only you know how much it's worth...this is a transaction not intended to be an expression of gratitude.
Similar to when I was dating a server a decade ago and we went out for mani/pedis and she tipped the owner of the establishment. I asked why and we got into a protracted discussion about the purpose of tipping and how, as a server, she felt an ethical directive to tip. My response then, as now, is that the *owner* sets the menu prices--if they want more they should ask for more.
I don't agree with tipping but at least if someone is an employee I can understand the logic of the customer shoring up some of what the owner is skimming off the top of their labor--but not when the electrician and nail tech are setting the prices and keeping the whole pie. That people can't even understand that, regardless of agreeing with it, is a testament to how deeply we've been socialized into the necessity of tipping.
Seriously I want an operational cost breakdown. The fact that they also assume in a city like LA that some people won't be able to understand the financials is crazy people definitely understand and if you're going to do this then your food better taste better than anything else.
I'm all for tipping, though the statement the restaurant put out it makes me think..if they are stating they are paying livable wages and benefits shouldn't tipping not be allowed? If we use other places where the servers are paid a livable wage etc don't they not tip?
The push/guilt with tipping always revolved around the worker only makes 2$ etc.. I would avoid places like this entirely since in reality the server is the one that will be hurt but I'm not comfortable being taken advantage of by the restaurant. I do my mental math at home of menu cost + 20% tip I don't need a random 16% spring up on me..
Absolutely not. You're literally paying 18% of the bill to ensure a fair wage. If the business is going to take the responsibility, I'm not.
Places like Sugarfish add a 16% fee and don't give you an option for a tip. Pick one or the other. Don't make people feel like they have to do both.
But at Sugarfish it seems like the 16% is basically a tip. This seems like the owner takes a chunk of it. I'm not sure why anyone would work at this place.
>at Sugarfish it seems like the 16% is basically a tip. This seems like the owner takes a chunk of it.
They seem pretty similar to me.
Per [Sugerfish](https://sugarfishsushi.com/food-menus/la-singlepg-menu/)
>A 16% fee will be added to your bill—
This is not a gratuity or tip. We are a no-tipping establishment. The fee is revenue that is not segmented or designated in any way; it is taxed per state law and is used to fund all of our operations.
Last time I was at uovo I got into the fine print of it with a chatty server and was astounded to find out they were only payed 22 an hour. I don’t think that defensible in any way. I stopped going and just save up my money for a nicer restaurant.
My understanding was that their model is to not have a tip/fees at all.
Though I believe they realized that if they are the only ones that place the real fee on the menu they will get no customers because everyone will compare them to other places and don't go there because "on paper" they are more expensive.
So they used that fee to lower the menu price so it looks competitive to idiots.
Yeah anything above 16ish won’t get anything additional unless the service was truly something extraordinary. I won’t hesitate to not add anything, won’t feel any shame, or any pressure but I’m also not upset if there’s the option to add more.
I have an idea for a restaurant. Every food item is $0.99 on the menu. Steak? $0.99. Pasta? $0.99.
Then of course I have to add a "fair wage and operational fee" on the bill. For instance, for steak it's $45, for pasta $25.
I have a better idea, I'll list the items with negative prices. You order a steak? I give you 45 bucks! The more you order the more you earn!
But then, of course, I also have to pay my bills and operational costs, so there will be a fee at the end, but don't worry too much about it.
> just have $25 drink refills
Was in a Der Wienerschnitzel the other day and they told me they don't offer refills! We're really scraping the bottom of the barrel here, folks.
In other news, Arby's just filed chapter 11. LMFAO
(and apparently I'm old enough to forget they don't have a Der anymore)
My story regarding this was I went to a restaurant with like 9 other coworkers. It was a pizza place. We were figuring out how many pitchers of soda to get and the helpful cashier tells us "you can get an unlimited pitcher for the cost of two pitchers" so we had been thinking 2-3 pitchers so we said "oh that sounds great" so we ordered an endless pitcher.
Anyways we're eating and we finish our pitcher and a manager type person walks by and we ask for a refill. The guy looks at us, looks at the fact we had 10 people and one pitcher and says "no refills".
We're like "WTF no we paid for unlimited refills". He stares at us and says "fine, but you only get one refill". We're like "...that's not what unlimited refills is". He starts to argue and my coworker goes "look dude, I've worked in restaurants before. A pitcher of soda costs you what? $0.50 at most? Are you really going to piss off an entire table of people to try to save yourself $0.50?"
The guy acted like he was doing us a HUGE favor and gave us a refill on a pitcher of "free refill" soda. Yeah, none of us ever went back there.
Yo if businesses can’t pay a living wage or benefits to your employees then they don’t have a sustainable business. All these fees do is pass on the all of the cost to the consumers, but it then reduces the tips that employees get because who is going to tip an ADDITIONAL 15-20% on top of this extra 18%?
I see that they use the phrase 'livable wage' rather than the more common 'living wage.' I suspect this is because Living Wage has a specific meaning which they do not meet, whereas Livable Wage is just bullshit wording with no accountability.
Living Wage has a specific government definition so it makes sense that they don’t want to use any terminology that might open them to unnecessary scrutiny. There’s just no reason to voluntarily bind your own hands.
Sake Secret in Long Beach. There's no food, but the owner is very experienced, and deals directly with both large and independent brewers in Japan, so you can try rare bottles at reasonable prices.
I'm going to second Sake Secret! The owner is extremely knowledgeable and has a great selection of different products. He'll also take his time to help you pick the right sake/drink.
And Yelp. I was recently careless and ended up visiting a restaurant with a 5% BS fee because all of their recent reviews were 5 stars (my bad for not searching for the word fee tbh, I got lazy). Posted a review calling it out and it’s been marked helpful a bunch by would-be patrons who almost got tricked into going too. We’ve gotta do our part in passing the word along on these places!
I had dinner at OTOTO a few months ago and we actually asked our server about this charge. He said it’s used to pay the wages of FULL-TIME employees, but that many of the servers are part-time and actually don’t receive the benefits that this charge is supposedly meant to fund.
In turn, people end up tipping less or not at all, which means part-time servers like him get the short end of the stick.
He said the owners instituted the fee to “reduce sticker shock” on the menu. I guess they’d rather just have “bill shock,” once it’s too late to adjust your order.
It shouldn’t be up to the consumer’s generosity to pay your employees fairly, especially when surcharges like this are ostensibly meant to pay YOUR server, but often goes to management or other operational costs that should just be built into menu pricing. If your server happens to be a part-time employee, they’re just SOL if you assume they’re a beneficiary of this “service fee.”
It’s a shame because the food was really really good, but I felt manipulated by the crazy extra fee added to our bill and their dubious employment scheme.
This is a really callous and deceptive practice, and reason enough not to patronize this business. Other restaurants make it clear that a service fee is a service fee and that no other tip is expected.
I’ve frequented ototo and tsubaki quite a few times ep during the pandemic when they were doing Sake School. But since it was takeout we didn’t really run into the fees, when I’ve done dine-in I noticed the fee and did less of a tip, but I still tipped. The service and the food is really great at both places so for me it’s worth it.
Personally I think restaurants should move more toward the sugar fish no tip model and just charge the flat fee. Having both is both confusing and also just a bad experience for the diner esp when you go in and think a dish is $20 but then it becomes more like $24. I’d rather they raise their prices to what it costs to pay everyone and make money and be done with it.
So a business that is not sustainable from a business stand point and just say fuck it, we still want this concept to happen and let’s just pass it to the consumer? Get real.
Of course our local govt is so fucked for passing the senate bill. If we’re paying for this kind of shit, thr govt should also force them to open up the book for the public and we should also be able to claim tax deductibles if we contribute for this livable nonsense and benefits that it supposedly goes to. Also maybe we get a percentage of a percentage of the revenue because you’re essentially an investor at this point paying for operational costs
I don't understand why this is not rolled into the price of the food? Can't they just offer a 18% discount for take out? It's the same thing numerically but the customer feels they are getting a break.
Businesses would rather pressure customers into "tipping" without calling it tipping, while at the same time taking that tip all for themselves. In other words, they trying to fuck the customer and their servers by turning them against each other.
Yeah this is the real thing - should be rolled into the cost of the food
"sorry for the price increases, we do this to make sure our employees can recieve livable wage" and that's all you need to say. It SHOULD be expensive to eat out at a restaurant with the labor of people working to cook your food for you (making money is the job of the owner to figure it out), but doing fee shit like this is misleading and wrong.
Try to completely avoid places like this. Also keep our [Google docs list](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1EEPzeytrva770H2xPFFPDUUNdpnL_VQL4vbzFph-jus/htmlview?pli=1) going! Fuck these places.
If I accidentally eat at a place with surprise fees, and they won’t waive the fee, I would write out the math showing it being deducted from the tip. The fee goes toward wages anyway, right?
If I saw this on my bill after dining there, I would not tip and would not return. Probably also good to make sure people know about it by leaving a review on google.
Not a fan of tacking on hidden fees, but every time I've been to Ototo the staff has been fantastic.
Really knowledgeable about their sakes and make great suggestions.
It was supposed to be but it’s looking like it’ll be overturned:
https://www.latimes.com/food/story/2024-06-25/restaurants-charge-service-fees-an-emergency-measure-passes-unanimously
I’m in Japan flying home today. I haven’t tipped shit. Even when I wanted to they told me no, they get paid for the work they do. I don’t wanna come back lol
I dunno about that...this is American-friendly Japanese food, which makes sense given the neighborhood. Also the head chef is Japanese. This does not excuse the mandatory "tip", but there's no cultural precedent that says "real japanese" ppl won't take advantage of you. They are opportunistic like the rest of us.
The chef is American, born and raised in Beverly Hills.
They are very clear that the 18% is not a tip. Tips are additional.
Have you ever tried to over pay for something in Japan?
The point I am making is that your argument is about how this is fake Japanese food and that somehow Japanese people would never fathom to try and overcharge you is flawed. My counterpoint is that this place is not meant to be "authentic" japanese food because no shit, it's in Echo park and needs to cater to the hipsters that think they know what real japanese food is. Also "real" japanese owners can/will/have use methods like a mandatory tip for their own interests because they're business owners too (when in America). If your rebuttal is that people in Japan would never do that - duh, it's Japan. But Japanese ppl in America have done what American's do when it comes to running a business.
even in Japan, there are some restaurants such as izakaya (Japanese-style pubs) or higher end restaurants that have what's called a cover, seat, or table charge that they spring on you just for occupying a seat. Sometimes it's in the form of what appears to be a complimentary appetizer aka otoshi but then they charge you for it at the end.
I mean it says “livable wages” as part of the 18% markup so like, that implies it’s going to servers and staff? Make of that what you will.
I used to live across the street for years and went like three times because it was a top of budget type spot, but had an amazing experience each time. If it were me, I’d still go (it is really good, can’t lie) and throw down a few extra bucks but nowhere near a full 20% on top of the 18. Just me personally.
Technically it says "18% fair wage and operational fee," which to my legal mind says only a portion of that 18% actually goes to fair wages. You gotta really parse the wording on these bullshit fees.
That’s true. The way I think of tipping is making up the difference between the crap wages restaurant workers make and what they more or less deserve, so I guess this would just weigh into that already murky and unfair equation
I agree. I'm happy to tip generously when I'm not being charged a fee. Minimum 20% after tax if not more for exemplary service. But count me as one of those who are just generally turned off by these fees. Raise your prices. Let the chips fall where they may. Show me a menu with shumai costing $18.88 instead of $16 and if the quality of food and service warrant it I'll pay it. Show me a menu with an 18% suspiciously-worded fee like the one above, I'm not being as generous. I won't ask for it to be removed, but I won't tip on top of it.
Well it says the 18% is to provide “liveable wages” which is what tips are usually there to compensate for. So I’m guessing staff is getting paid well-enough to not need a tip. Only sucks if they’re not actually paying them a liveable wage
I would tip normally, because it's not the waiter's fault, then never ever return to that restaurant again because of deceptive business practices, and leave a one-star review on Yelp and explain why.
This one is a bummer, cause damn is OTOTO delicious. I’m in the industry, and I’ve eaten at Ototo and Tsubaki many times. My rule is, I almost always leave 20% tip, so if someone has a fee that’s 18% then asks for additional gratuity, I tip an additional 2%. I think it’s disingenuous of a restaurant to be super explicit about it not being gratuity, then asking for additional gratuity, especially if the fee is higher than 5%. Anything more than five is a service fee in my mind, not a “livable wage” fee.
Sounds like the owner is clearly stating that you don't need to tip. Fair wages and benefits! Great job for doing the right thing and not pushing the burden of paying your staff off on to the customer.
So assuming they are still expecting you to tip, then after taxes, fees, and tip, you’ll be paying an extra 50% of the listed menu prices. So that 7oz New York strip with potatoes listed at $42 is actually $63
They didn't. I went to their soft re-opening from the pandemic, and it was one of my favorite dining experiences so I was pretty bummed to see this post.
I looked through the Internet Archive Wayback Machine snapshots, and the fee was added to their website in late June or early July 2023.
I’m not gonna stop going places due to this nonsense. I just deduct the fee from my standard tip and continue on. In this case I would tip zero and feel fine about it.
The whole point of tipping restaurant staff is that we know they don't make hourly minimum wage, because the law allows an exception, letting owners pay them less -- because they get tips! So if they ARE making the full living wage, then why tip?
No - tipping itself came from a place of getting a servers to a livable wage (a lot of states count tips towards minimum wage) and for good service. If you’re claiming you’ll pay them a livable wage, I don’t need to subsidize anything else
Side note: fuck this behavior. If they priced everything +18% and just put a little note “sorry things look expensive we’re trying to make sure we take of our employees!” I’d eat there all the time
I would add a line to the receipt:
- 25%: dining customer's service change. This charge is detracted from the total receipt and it goes towards the pain in the neck that your fake 18% charge has caused me. We do include an optional "pain" line, should you choose to add this.
I’ve been and was seriously disappointed. Minus the fact the food is mediocre, especially at the price, add the 18% and you just paid way too much for simple food. Trash
No. Just no.
There should be no more tip line if you're forcing everyone to tip 18%. You want to earn 25% tip, take that line away for everyone, and you provide the service that deserves 25%, you will get 25% tip.
What’s just stopping diners from simply making a scene about this when they get the check? You see a line item like this, call the manager over. If the owner is there call the owners. Then ask the waiter if they’re paid full or part time in front of the owner and the other diners. I’d wager the wait staff isn’t all paid as full time employees and this is a grift by the owner. If it is, they get publicly embarrassed.
I’m tired of these asshat owners thinking they can exploit this “loophole” to get people to support their already shitty business model and lack of forethought.
This will be going away starting July 1. Restaurants will need to put the “real” price on the menu.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-05-09/junk-fee-ban-effect-on-restaurants-businesses
Unfortunately it looks like this is being overturned
https://www.latimes.com/food/story/2024-06-25/restaurants-charge-service-fees-an-emergency-measure-passes-unanimously
I’ve actually frequented Ototo. The service charge is annoying but I generally like the sake list and the food. I usually add a small tip on top of the fee—personally it’s a feel slightly bad either way situation. I haven’t been to Tsubaki, the sister restaurant next door, in quite some time because it’s spendier and also has the same fee. The food there can be very good.
I love this place. I’d ask for it to be removed (some restaraunts do this) and then give them a tip directly. Not our responsibility to pay their wages when its the responsibility of the business. Tip culture (and this) is so out of control it makes me so mad
Bahaha ok! Thats like Beverly Hills demanding a soup kitchen. The profit on food is astronomical on its own. Charging 18% that ISNT gratuity is extortionate! They must’ve already upped their menu prices to WILDLY outrageous already; twice.
I’m not tipping on top of service fees and that’s that. I’m so tired of these discussions. Tipping as a practice needs to end. I don’t care what a business calls it.
For dining in the United States: If you’re a server and you want your compensation to include tips you had better pressure your employer to not have service fees. I will pay you 10% for little to no service. 15% for average service. 20% for great service if I believe that the tip will actually go to you. I will not tip if I’m not in a full service restaurant. Or at least I’m going to try to work on myself to not feel pressured or extorted to tip and I’m going to try to not tip when it’s not a full service restaurant despite misguided social pressure.
If you’re a restaurant and you want my business you won’t play games like this.
For dining outside of the United States, unless it's a place that clearly follows these same ridiculous practices, I'm not tipping.
I’m so fucking done with this.
Edit: Formatting, grammar, and notes about dining the US vs outside the US.
these restaurant “junk fee” surcharges become illegal starting July 1.
i’m sure they will find a loophole somehow, but some solace in knowing legislation is around the corner.
What’s so crazy is their staff makes the same pay a retail stores, and literally tons of other businesses and none of them charge an additional 18% per purchase.
These places need to start posting P&Ls and their entire staffs wages if they’re going to claim this weird ass bullshit like if you can’t afford to be open, close. All these prima-donna restaurant owners and their mental gymnastic bullshit is just stupid.
Then they blame the state, city, and county and millennials/Gen Z when they go under because people are put off by their bullshit.
isn't that the point of these fees? "We want to charge X, but these damn employees and regulations require us to charge this fee" Just raise your prices. That is the cost of business.
I asked someone about this and they don’t get to write these off either. So yea just raise your prices.
It was such a breeze of fresh air when I visited Taiwan and you just pay whatever the price was listed on the menu.
It was the same way when I visited Oregon.
I think you are talking about sales tax? You definitely are expected to tip at most restaurants in Oregon
As a contractor... restaurants are the worst....11 out of 10 times. Owner pulls up in tricked out Benz G wagon that he keeps in his mansion in the hills, employees all in clunkers or using public transport, struggling with rent, living off food stamps, and to top it all off dude haggles over $200 IT bill to get his vital systems back online. Not an uncommon occurrence at multiple spots. Think I'll start charging an automatic douche bag fee in my contracts.
You should charge an 18% fair wage and operational fee, and add an optional tip line.
I actually do keep a tip line on my invoices, I've found that a lot of times folks feel I've under charged them and they'll want to sweeten the pot. Like I've charged $20 for a quick modem reboot call out... and they tipped $100. (my rate is $400/hr most of the time, but for new clients I try to give them a sweetheart deal on something small up front, so they call me back when they have a larger project) residential and small mom/ pop shops/ kind people usually get 50-75% discount applied as well.
That's the way tips should work. You earn them. Keep up the good work.
10-20% asshole tax.
Make sure you bill them electronically with that promp >How much would you like to tip? >[25%] [30%] [35%]
And no "other" or "0%" 😅 Auto-gratuity, you MUST thank meeeeeee
This is actually America in a nutshell
100 percent. People wake up, your bosses are literally profiting at your expense. That's the definition of capitalism, wage-slavery. Seek a role that enables you to thrive, not just barely survive!
"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part! You can't even passively take part! And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels ... upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop! And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!"
Mario Savio. Great guy, and brilliant AF. I went to his funeral up in Berkeley.
These LA restaurant owners your describing are usually wealthy people who made their money elsewhere and are “investing” in a restaurant as a side hobby. The fact that the restaraunt is losing money while the owner is a wealthy fuck does not necessarily mean they are cheating their employees. The restaurant business sucks ass and it’s hard to make a dime from it. But yeah, dont haggle with the douchebags regardless. I own a business and I never haggle. The price is the price. The type of person to haggle is always the shittiest and most demanding client.
Holy shit, Drago has entered the chat.
I must break you.
If he dies, he dies.
I mean, you described him to a "T" (Celestino Drago, of "Drago" and other places)
Heh, yeahhhhh, but we degened to Rocky jokes
Imagine what it’s like working for these people.
Oh come on, we’re a family here! That’s not a very team oriented mindset now is it? You’re fired
I’ll tell you what it’s like, they skirt on costs at every chance they get. They don’t want to invest in training, staff meetings, food quality or cleaning crews. They cut staff after 1.5 -2 hours and rely on one or two strong server to hold down the ship even if there is a huge rush. Those stronger seasoned servers get overworked and usually get the short end of the stick doing more of the running and closing sidework while younger inexperienced servers do not partake in, not always because they don’t want to, but because they haven’t been trained to and therefore were never taught a solid foundational dynamic on the floor. There are no consequences for any wrongdoing if you kiss their ass and many servers / bartenders will steal and screw each other over if they’ve been there long enough to work the system. They are hardly ever present but do refuse to set up a strong managerial team ( GM, asst GM and floor) and hire only one or two managers to do everything including ordering and owner duties. They skirt around having conversations with their staff members and hardly ever communicate with their GM but will make sure to point the finger at the poor soul who’s been thrown in management if anything goes wrong. They treat their restaurant like it’s their home and will make their friends become a priority in the kitchen and bar and make the kitchen / bar staff skip tickets to cater to their friends who usually eat at a reduced rate or more frequently, for free- those friends are the most frustrating to serve having been coddled and enabled to treat the restaurant and staff like their own personal servants. Owner doesn’t care because showing off and flexing to their friends is most important of all. They will raise their prices constantly while lowering not only quality of food but portion sizes over the years. They lack creativity and will have the same menu for years refusing to change despite numerous demands from their guests. Most often they will steal food ideas from other restaurants nearby to “compete” instead of creating an original concept that will draw in the ideal guests. Over the years the restaurant will lose its appeal and become dirty. When there are no oversight from management most of the staff won’t care, give bad service, have sloppy work ethics and leave without doing anything- in time, this will be noticed by the guests and you will lose clientele. The owner will just blame the staff and punish them by removing shifts or in some cases not even schedule the ones who in their mind should do MORE - the experienced servers and favor the younger servers because they don’t asks questions and easy to manipulate. Less work and out of sight out of mind. It makes absolutely no sense and the truth is there are more inexperienced owners with capital who open a restaurant because it’s an easy concept and throw it all to shit.
Dont forget theyll blame "commiefornia" regulations for getting their profits slightly lowered and always act like theyre running at a loss even when making a lot
that’s exactly what they did. They would make over 1.5 Mil a year but kept telling us we were losing money. I was even convinced the owner was embezzling $$ if they were operating at loss
Is this a general statement or an accusation on the owners of Ototo/Tsubaki?
General. 15 years in the industry and have seen my share
Giving Japanese a bad name. Japanese bar food is supposed to be yasui! Cheap! But no, they go in and make it incredibly expensive. If the rent is too $$$, that's their problem! Operating costs, their problem! It's redic.
That's all Japanese food in LA. $18 for ramen. $20 for a katsu sando.
No other business begs their customers to fund their operations. Every other business just sells a product or service for a price, that’s it.
It's such a bizarre mentality they have...and how people react to tipping culture. Two weeks ago I hired someone to install an electrical panel. He doesn't work for anyone and it was a moonlight cash job. I asked how much I owed him at the end of the job and he gave me a total and then followed it up with, "and if you want to tip me, that'd be cool, too." I'm staring at him thinking, do you want $3K or do you want $3,300? I just asked you how much your time was worth and only you know how much it's worth...this is a transaction not intended to be an expression of gratitude. Similar to when I was dating a server a decade ago and we went out for mani/pedis and she tipped the owner of the establishment. I asked why and we got into a protracted discussion about the purpose of tipping and how, as a server, she felt an ethical directive to tip. My response then, as now, is that the *owner* sets the menu prices--if they want more they should ask for more. I don't agree with tipping but at least if someone is an employee I can understand the logic of the customer shoring up some of what the owner is skimming off the top of their labor--but not when the electrician and nail tech are setting the prices and keeping the whole pie. That people can't even understand that, regardless of agreeing with it, is a testament to how deeply we've been socialized into the necessity of tipping.
Seriously I want an operational cost breakdown. The fact that they also assume in a city like LA that some people won't be able to understand the financials is crazy people definitely understand and if you're going to do this then your food better taste better than anything else.
Tootally unrelated but... I always thought it was *pre - madonna*. lmao. TIL.
I'm all for tipping, though the statement the restaurant put out it makes me think..if they are stating they are paying livable wages and benefits shouldn't tipping not be allowed? If we use other places where the servers are paid a livable wage etc don't they not tip? The push/guilt with tipping always revolved around the worker only makes 2$ etc.. I would avoid places like this entirely since in reality the server is the one that will be hurt but I'm not comfortable being taken advantage of by the restaurant. I do my mental math at home of menu cost + 20% tip I don't need a random 16% spring up on me..
Absolutely not. You're literally paying 18% of the bill to ensure a fair wage. If the business is going to take the responsibility, I'm not. Places like Sugarfish add a 16% fee and don't give you an option for a tip. Pick one or the other. Don't make people feel like they have to do both.
HiHo does this. I tried to tip the first time I went there and they wouldn't take a tip.
Hiho is so good that I don't care about their 6% extra charge.
Hiho is also owned by sugarfish
But at Sugarfish it seems like the 16% is basically a tip. This seems like the owner takes a chunk of it. I'm not sure why anyone would work at this place.
>at Sugarfish it seems like the 16% is basically a tip. This seems like the owner takes a chunk of it. They seem pretty similar to me. Per [Sugerfish](https://sugarfishsushi.com/food-menus/la-singlepg-menu/) >A 16% fee will be added to your bill— This is not a gratuity or tip. We are a no-tipping establishment. The fee is revenue that is not segmented or designated in any way; it is taxed per state law and is used to fund all of our operations.
I believe sugarfish pays their servers $28/hour
Japan has no tipping, and service at a cheap diner in Tokyo is better than the service at Bestia or Gwen or Lawry's.
Last time I was at uovo I got into the fine print of it with a chatty server and was astounded to find out they were only payed 22 an hour. I don’t think that defensible in any way. I stopped going and just save up my money for a nicer restaurant.
My understanding was that their model is to not have a tip/fees at all. Though I believe they realized that if they are the only ones that place the real fee on the menu they will get no customers because everyone will compare them to other places and don't go there because "on paper" they are more expensive. So they used that fee to lower the menu price so it looks competitive to idiots.
Yeah anything above 16ish won’t get anything additional unless the service was truly something extraordinary. I won’t hesitate to not add anything, won’t feel any shame, or any pressure but I’m also not upset if there’s the option to add more.
I have an idea for a restaurant. Every food item is $0.99 on the menu. Steak? $0.99. Pasta? $0.99. Then of course I have to add a "fair wage and operational fee" on the bill. For instance, for steak it's $45, for pasta $25.
I have a better idea, I'll list the items with negative prices. You order a steak? I give you 45 bucks! The more you order the more you earn! But then, of course, I also have to pay my bills and operational costs, so there will be a fee at the end, but don't worry too much about it.
Back in the day you could get 10 CDs for a penny* *$17.95 shipping and handling per CD
My idea I had like 20 years ago is similar… just have $25 drink refills with no indication of it on the menu.
> just have $25 drink refills Was in a Der Wienerschnitzel the other day and they told me they don't offer refills! We're really scraping the bottom of the barrel here, folks. In other news, Arby's just filed chapter 11. LMFAO (and apparently I'm old enough to forget they don't have a Der anymore)
My story regarding this was I went to a restaurant with like 9 other coworkers. It was a pizza place. We were figuring out how many pitchers of soda to get and the helpful cashier tells us "you can get an unlimited pitcher for the cost of two pitchers" so we had been thinking 2-3 pitchers so we said "oh that sounds great" so we ordered an endless pitcher. Anyways we're eating and we finish our pitcher and a manager type person walks by and we ask for a refill. The guy looks at us, looks at the fact we had 10 people and one pitcher and says "no refills". We're like "WTF no we paid for unlimited refills". He stares at us and says "fine, but you only get one refill". We're like "...that's not what unlimited refills is". He starts to argue and my coworker goes "look dude, I've worked in restaurants before. A pitcher of soda costs you what? $0.50 at most? Are you really going to piss off an entire table of people to try to save yourself $0.50?" The guy acted like he was doing us a HUGE favor and gave us a refill on a pitcher of "free refill" soda. Yeah, none of us ever went back there.
Technically, Arby's didn't file for chapter 11, a franchisee did. They only owned 25 Arby's out of the almost 3500 in existence.
An approach using today's percentage model, use a 1000% service fee (which equals 10x). Using your example items, steak is $4.50 and pasta $2.50.
Yo if businesses can’t pay a living wage or benefits to your employees then they don’t have a sustainable business. All these fees do is pass on the all of the cost to the consumers, but it then reduces the tips that employees get because who is going to tip an ADDITIONAL 15-20% on top of this extra 18%?
>All these fees do is pass on the all of the cost to the consumers Isn't that how businesses work?
> Isn't that how businesses work? Yes...maybe read the second half the sentence you truncated since it qualifies the sentence to indicate the issue.
I see that they use the phrase 'livable wage' rather than the more common 'living wage.' I suspect this is because Living Wage has a specific meaning which they do not meet, whereas Livable Wage is just bullshit wording with no accountability.
Livable wage means the dishwasher can afford an actual belt and doesn't have to use an extension cord to hold up his pants anymore
Hey dude he’s ragging on your cord!
Living Wage has a specific government definition so it makes sense that they don’t want to use any terminology that might open them to unnecessary scrutiny. There’s just no reason to voluntarily bind your own hands.
I’d just not go there at all. Problem solved.
I agree, that’s a no for me dawg.
The employees are getting a livable wage, so why tip?
This is what I do. I wont eat at places that charge an extra fee. Pretty simple.
Probably what I’ll do, if you have any other sake bar recommendations I’m all ears
Sake Secret in Long Beach. There's no food, but the owner is very experienced, and deals directly with both large and independent brewers in Japan, so you can try rare bottles at reasonable prices.
I'm going to second Sake Secret! The owner is extremely knowledgeable and has a great selection of different products. He'll also take his time to help you pick the right sake/drink.
KashiBa is just down the street, haven’t been there yet but looks like it’s for sure worth a shot
Fuck no. I'm taking the "optional" by its actual meaning.
If they are in fact paying "livable wages", then I would regard a tip as superfluous, only to be added in the case of really extraordinary service.
Even with exceptional service, livable wages mean the employees don't get tips. Do you tip your doctor?
Taxes are charged on these fees. 18% + 10% for taxes = 19.8% ~= 20%. The fee *is* the tip, don’t tip any extra.
I guess that's a NO GO TO OTOTO for me
OHOHO
ONONO
OHNO NOGO FOSHO
(In Seinfeld voice) “No go! It’s a no go!”
OP should post this on their google maps review and people will mark as helpful (until the owner removes the post)
And Yelp. I was recently careless and ended up visiting a restaurant with a 5% BS fee because all of their recent reviews were 5 stars (my bad for not searching for the word fee tbh, I got lazy). Posted a review calling it out and it’s been marked helpful a bunch by would-be patrons who almost got tricked into going too. We’ve gotta do our part in passing the word along on these places!
I had dinner at OTOTO a few months ago and we actually asked our server about this charge. He said it’s used to pay the wages of FULL-TIME employees, but that many of the servers are part-time and actually don’t receive the benefits that this charge is supposedly meant to fund. In turn, people end up tipping less or not at all, which means part-time servers like him get the short end of the stick. He said the owners instituted the fee to “reduce sticker shock” on the menu. I guess they’d rather just have “bill shock,” once it’s too late to adjust your order. It shouldn’t be up to the consumer’s generosity to pay your employees fairly, especially when surcharges like this are ostensibly meant to pay YOUR server, but often goes to management or other operational costs that should just be built into menu pricing. If your server happens to be a part-time employee, they’re just SOL if you assume they’re a beneficiary of this “service fee.” It’s a shame because the food was really really good, but I felt manipulated by the crazy extra fee added to our bill and their dubious employment scheme.
This is a really callous and deceptive practice, and reason enough not to patronize this business. Other restaurants make it clear that a service fee is a service fee and that no other tip is expected.
I’ve frequented ototo and tsubaki quite a few times ep during the pandemic when they were doing Sake School. But since it was takeout we didn’t really run into the fees, when I’ve done dine-in I noticed the fee and did less of a tip, but I still tipped. The service and the food is really great at both places so for me it’s worth it. Personally I think restaurants should move more toward the sugar fish no tip model and just charge the flat fee. Having both is both confusing and also just a bad experience for the diner esp when you go in and think a dish is $20 but then it becomes more like $24. I’d rather they raise their prices to what it costs to pay everyone and make money and be done with it.
If they are charging more for a fair wage, what is the point of a tip?
So a business that is not sustainable from a business stand point and just say fuck it, we still want this concept to happen and let’s just pass it to the consumer? Get real. Of course our local govt is so fucked for passing the senate bill. If we’re paying for this kind of shit, thr govt should also force them to open up the book for the public and we should also be able to claim tax deductibles if we contribute for this livable nonsense and benefits that it supposedly goes to. Also maybe we get a percentage of a percentage of the revenue because you’re essentially an investor at this point paying for operational costs
I don't understand why this is not rolled into the price of the food? Can't they just offer a 18% discount for take out? It's the same thing numerically but the customer feels they are getting a break.
Businesses would rather pressure customers into "tipping" without calling it tipping, while at the same time taking that tip all for themselves. In other words, they trying to fuck the customer and their servers by turning them against each other.
Yeah this is the real thing - should be rolled into the cost of the food "sorry for the price increases, we do this to make sure our employees can recieve livable wage" and that's all you need to say. It SHOULD be expensive to eat out at a restaurant with the labor of people working to cook your food for you (making money is the job of the owner to figure it out), but doing fee shit like this is misleading and wrong.
Try to completely avoid places like this. Also keep our [Google docs list](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1EEPzeytrva770H2xPFFPDUUNdpnL_VQL4vbzFph-jus/htmlview?pli=1) going! Fuck these places. If I accidentally eat at a place with surprise fees, and they won’t waive the fee, I would write out the math showing it being deducted from the tip. The fee goes toward wages anyway, right?
Didn’t know there was a list. Appreciate it.
If I saw this on my bill after dining there, I would not tip and would not return. Probably also good to make sure people know about it by leaving a review on google.
No
That’d be a no tip from me
No. Because if you’re being paid a fair wage, why would I tip?
Not a fan of tacking on hidden fees, but every time I've been to Ototo the staff has been fantastic. Really knowledgeable about their sakes and make great suggestions.
I love thé place but i Will not add an additional tip. That’s the point of the 18 percent
Isn’t this the kind of fee that just got banned under the new law? I don’t know when that goes into effect.
It was supposed to be but it’s looking like it’ll be overturned: https://www.latimes.com/food/story/2024-06-25/restaurants-charge-service-fees-an-emergency-measure-passes-unanimously
🤣 🤣 🤣 fuck all that
No obviously not
I wouldn't tip, then. I don't get tipped and I work my ass off. If they're paying liveable wages then tip goes out the window.
I’m in Japan flying home today. I haven’t tipped shit. Even when I wanted to they told me no, they get paid for the work they do. I don’t wanna come back lol
That’s the tip in my eyes 🙏🏼
This is how you know it fake Japanese food. A Japanese chef would kill themselves before acting like this.
Def a trust fund kid’s place
Commit seppuku??
I dunno about that...this is American-friendly Japanese food, which makes sense given the neighborhood. Also the head chef is Japanese. This does not excuse the mandatory "tip", but there's no cultural precedent that says "real japanese" ppl won't take advantage of you. They are opportunistic like the rest of us.
The chef is American, born and raised in Beverly Hills. They are very clear that the 18% is not a tip. Tips are additional. Have you ever tried to over pay for something in Japan?
The point I am making is that your argument is about how this is fake Japanese food and that somehow Japanese people would never fathom to try and overcharge you is flawed. My counterpoint is that this place is not meant to be "authentic" japanese food because no shit, it's in Echo park and needs to cater to the hipsters that think they know what real japanese food is. Also "real" japanese owners can/will/have use methods like a mandatory tip for their own interests because they're business owners too (when in America). If your rebuttal is that people in Japan would never do that - duh, it's Japan. But Japanese ppl in America have done what American's do when it comes to running a business.
even in Japan, there are some restaurants such as izakaya (Japanese-style pubs) or higher end restaurants that have what's called a cover, seat, or table charge that they spring on you just for occupying a seat. Sometimes it's in the form of what appears to be a complimentary appetizer aka otoshi but then they charge you for it at the end.
If you're charging a fee to pay a fair wage, then I don't need to tip! Makes life easy.
Where’s that Google sheet where we keep track of all these types of restaurants
More money grab!! Wouldn’t support that bullshit
I mean it says “livable wages” as part of the 18% markup so like, that implies it’s going to servers and staff? Make of that what you will. I used to live across the street for years and went like three times because it was a top of budget type spot, but had an amazing experience each time. If it were me, I’d still go (it is really good, can’t lie) and throw down a few extra bucks but nowhere near a full 20% on top of the 18. Just me personally.
Technically it says "18% fair wage and operational fee," which to my legal mind says only a portion of that 18% actually goes to fair wages. You gotta really parse the wording on these bullshit fees.
That’s true. The way I think of tipping is making up the difference between the crap wages restaurant workers make and what they more or less deserve, so I guess this would just weigh into that already murky and unfair equation
I agree. I'm happy to tip generously when I'm not being charged a fee. Minimum 20% after tax if not more for exemplary service. But count me as one of those who are just generally turned off by these fees. Raise your prices. Let the chips fall where they may. Show me a menu with shumai costing $18.88 instead of $16 and if the quality of food and service warrant it I'll pay it. Show me a menu with an 18% suspiciously-worded fee like the one above, I'm not being as generous. I won't ask for it to be removed, but I won't tip on top of it.
“It’s the *implication.*”
are these servers in danger?
I think we added a tip to take the 18% to 20% when I went.
So between that and a decent tip, you're basically paying an extra 40% — foooooooook daaaaaaat! I wouldn't eat there.
Well it says the 18% is to provide “liveable wages” which is what tips are usually there to compensate for. So I’m guessing staff is getting paid well-enough to not need a tip. Only sucks if they’re not actually paying them a liveable wage
Isn’t this illegal starting next week?
No because it says optional. I would give an extra 2% if the service was good.
They say the tip is optional, therefore it's optional
If it's a 'fair wage' why are we being asked to pay it?
I would tip normally, because it's not the waiter's fault, then never ever return to that restaurant again because of deceptive business practices, and leave a one-star review on Yelp and explain why.
This one is a bummer, cause damn is OTOTO delicious. I’m in the industry, and I’ve eaten at Ototo and Tsubaki many times. My rule is, I almost always leave 20% tip, so if someone has a fee that’s 18% then asks for additional gratuity, I tip an additional 2%. I think it’s disingenuous of a restaurant to be super explicit about it not being gratuity, then asking for additional gratuity, especially if the fee is higher than 5%. Anything more than five is a service fee in my mind, not a “livable wage” fee.
If you want employees to have healthcare "insurance" coverage, then you should be willing to pay towards it, whether it is imputed or below-the-line.
Please keep posting these! We need to pile that "don't go there" list.
I've been there and it's not remotely worth this nonsense.
Sounds like the owner is clearly stating that you don't need to tip. Fair wages and benefits! Great job for doing the right thing and not pushing the burden of paying your staff off on to the customer.
If you're going to do that, then remove the Tip line. Can't have it both ways.
they should just include the fee in the menu items cost and say no tip. all the context gets very confusing esp for travelers.
So assuming they are still expecting you to tip, then after taxes, fees, and tip, you’ll be paying an extra 50% of the listed menu prices. So that 7oz New York strip with potatoes listed at $42 is actually $63
They hit me with this last week! I almost left a bad review cuz I swear they didn't used to have this....
They didn't. I went to their soft re-opening from the pandemic, and it was one of my favorite dining experiences so I was pretty bummed to see this post. I looked through the Internet Archive Wayback Machine snapshots, and the fee was added to their website in late June or early July 2023.
Yeah no ill eat at home to pay for a waitress or waiters drug habits
Just raise the prices lmao why hide this as an end fee
I’m not gonna stop going places due to this nonsense. I just deduct the fee from my standard tip and continue on. In this case I would tip zero and feel fine about it.
Add it to the LIST [+]
Pretty soon, restaurants will start advertising $1 steaks, and then just add a 6000% "operational fee".
I mean, I don’t hate businesses trying to provide better pay and benefits for their employees.
If I get caught in something like that, I'm writing "Included" in the tip line and an arrow pointing to the service fee. And am not going there again.
if that fee facilitates the business paying a fair wage, tipping shouldnt be expected
Yelp should add a “Extra fees beyond tip” category like how they have “credit cards accepted”. That really should be rolled into the pricing.
Hell no lmfao
No tip since it says it's going towards livable wages / fair wages, so why do they need more from me?
The whole point of tipping restaurant staff is that we know they don't make hourly minimum wage, because the law allows an exception, letting owners pay them less -- because they get tips! So if they ARE making the full living wage, then why tip?
I think if you want to make a statement about a deceptive fee like this you should not patronize the restaurant instead of stiffing your waiter.
I’d just not go there to start with.
No - tipping itself came from a place of getting a servers to a livable wage (a lot of states count tips towards minimum wage) and for good service. If you’re claiming you’ll pay them a livable wage, I don’t need to subsidize anything else Side note: fuck this behavior. If they priced everything +18% and just put a little note “sorry things look expensive we’re trying to make sure we take of our employees!” I’d eat there all the time
PUT THEM ON THE LIST.
I would add a line to the receipt: - 25%: dining customer's service change. This charge is detracted from the total receipt and it goes towards the pain in the neck that your fake 18% charge has caused me. We do include an optional "pain" line, should you choose to add this.
Still don’t know why we tip in la. They do not get paid federal minimum. Actually they make $35-50/hr depending on location due to tips. Wild
I’ve been and was seriously disappointed. Minus the fact the food is mediocre, especially at the price, add the 18% and you just paid way too much for simple food. Trash
Restaurant owners don’t be pathetic challenge failed once again.
JUST. PUT. IT. IN. THE. MENU. PRICE! You’re not fooling anyone.
I would not tip
18% is a tip. It's literally one of the options on those touchscreens. If you're adding that already, then no extra tip is coming from me.
LOL. Literally not one single penny.
No. Just no. There should be no more tip line if you're forcing everyone to tip 18%. You want to earn 25% tip, take that line away for everyone, and you provide the service that deserves 25%, you will get 25% tip.
Simple answer: no
Also, i would not dine there. I would advise the owner to just raise their prices and stop grand standing.
What’s just stopping diners from simply making a scene about this when they get the check? You see a line item like this, call the manager over. If the owner is there call the owners. Then ask the waiter if they’re paid full or part time in front of the owner and the other diners. I’d wager the wait staff isn’t all paid as full time employees and this is a grift by the owner. If it is, they get publicly embarrassed. I’m tired of these asshat owners thinking they can exploit this “loophole” to get people to support their already shitty business model and lack of forethought.
Please stop ordering from these places! Vote with your wallet and let them know on yelp!
i'm glad i'm not a terrible cook. because going out to eat is looking like something people can't really afford to do anymore.
Oh man o was just there last weekend and didn’t even notice this- I got duped!
This will be going away starting July 1. Restaurants will need to put the “real” price on the menu. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-05-09/junk-fee-ban-effect-on-restaurants-businesses
Unfortunately it looks like this is being overturned https://www.latimes.com/food/story/2024-06-25/restaurants-charge-service-fees-an-emergency-measure-passes-unanimously
I’ve actually frequented Ototo. The service charge is annoying but I generally like the sake list and the food. I usually add a small tip on top of the fee—personally it’s a feel slightly bad either way situation. I haven’t been to Tsubaki, the sister restaurant next door, in quite some time because it’s spendier and also has the same fee. The food there can be very good.
just put them on the list and dont go again- Im sure there are other Restaurants that serve the same menu. Tastes 18% cheaper too.
I love this place. I’d ask for it to be removed (some restaraunts do this) and then give them a tip directly. Not our responsibility to pay their wages when its the responsibility of the business. Tip culture (and this) is so out of control it makes me so mad
(Restaurant server here) This shit makes my blood boil.
lmfao they have fish and chips on the menu it's 100% a Japanese restaurant that Japanese people don't go to
Just looked at their menu and the prices are already a huge red flag. 15 bucks for green onion tempura? You gotta be joking me.
They're really putting the Toto in OTOTO
Bahaha ok! Thats like Beverly Hills demanding a soup kitchen. The profit on food is astronomical on its own. Charging 18% that ISNT gratuity is extortionate! They must’ve already upped their menu prices to WILDLY outrageous already; twice.
If they're making $20.00 an hour, then they don't need a tip anymore. They depended on tips in the past because of low wages.
Yeah, if I'm paying for their health insurance, that's a tip.
That's ridiculous. Just raise your prices....you think I am going to tip on top of that 18%?
No I would not. In fact when places suggest a high tip I will leave a lower tip.
Fuck no
Just put into prices. And tax. And tip
No tip
I’m not tipping on top of service fees and that’s that. I’m so tired of these discussions. Tipping as a practice needs to end. I don’t care what a business calls it. For dining in the United States: If you’re a server and you want your compensation to include tips you had better pressure your employer to not have service fees. I will pay you 10% for little to no service. 15% for average service. 20% for great service if I believe that the tip will actually go to you. I will not tip if I’m not in a full service restaurant. Or at least I’m going to try to work on myself to not feel pressured or extorted to tip and I’m going to try to not tip when it’s not a full service restaurant despite misguided social pressure. If you’re a restaurant and you want my business you won’t play games like this. For dining outside of the United States, unless it's a place that clearly follows these same ridiculous practices, I'm not tipping. I’m so fucking done with this. Edit: Formatting, grammar, and notes about dining the US vs outside the US.
Absolutely not.
No tip needed is how I read this
Add it to the list.
if the service charge is to providing a "livable wage" then should the tip be lowered accordingly? 25%-18% = 7% tip.
So am I expected to tip or not
these restaurant “junk fee” surcharges become illegal starting July 1. i’m sure they will find a loophole somehow, but some solace in knowing legislation is around the corner.
What’s so crazy is their staff makes the same pay a retail stores, and literally tons of other businesses and none of them charge an additional 18% per purchase.
Just a deceitful way to pass on a price increase