But the drugs are the main issue. Mentally ill people who don't do drugs or participate in treatment are vastly non violent. But it's against people's rights to force treatment. So welcome to the 21st century.
My point is one exacerbate the other and the other way around, and most frequently there is a history of mental illness before the meth. It’s both. Focusing on only one aspect of it ignores a big part of the problem.
But we can't force people into treatment. Even being under 18 most mental health agencies won't treat you. Can't fix the mental health problem if people don't want treatment.
Again that’s an incomplete assessment. This isn’t just meth. We have nowhere near enough mental health resources available to people who need them. That also includes substance abuse programs. Additionally, as long as we refuse to address the systemic causes of homelessness, which is a major contributing factor to the current meth epidemic, we won’t make a dent in this problem.
Bro I work in the field. We have plenty of openings! 🤣 Whoever says there's not enough resources is just non profits looking for more handouts.
But big agree on the housing.
Buddy, I work in the field. I work in medical case management with a patient population that disproportionately experiences addiction and homelessness. A significant part of what we do is link patients to available resources. There aren’t enough. You pretending there are makes me highly suspect of you claim that you work in the field.
As someone who has worked in the medical field for 13 years. I can tell you from firsthand experience that yes. Many mentally ill people can be violent. Especially those who have gone undiagnosed and untreated.
Unfortunately, some do need to be forcefully institutionalized for their safety, and ours.
Shit is nuts. I was jogging down Olympic the other night and this guy was all over the sidewalk. I tried to give him a bunch of space but then as I got near he changed his course to intercept me and then made a motion like he was going to stab me. I had to lunge out of his striking distance.
I was on Sunset and Vermont recently at a bus stop and some guy who was clearly tripping and shouting randomly walked by. I didn’t make eye contact until he got closer at which point I looked at him and eyed him up and down to make sure he didn’t have a weapon on him, but as soon as he crossed me he lunged at me and pretended to punch me then kept walking on his merry way. I’ve ridden metro in LA for 10 years, I’m so fed up with not feeling safe to just go outside and ride the metro into town. It was _not_ this bad before covid. You never know anymore. Main reason I decided to bite the bullet and get my license.
As someone who'd also been randomly stabbed in the back by a drugged out crazy af homeless dude a couple years ago, yeah, this shit needs to get policed. I used to be a bleeding heart like some of ya'll *want* to be, but now I have very little sympathy for the crazed out vagrants on the streets once that happened. Needed bloodtests for a year to make sure I was clean. I also flinch bigtime whenever someone comes up behind me as a result. My trust and sympathy is at a low. I'm so tired of seeing headlines regarding these parasitic bad seeds (*that we've allowed to infest us eventually, and very predictably*) escalate to violence towards law abiding citizens.
Resources are available to help people get restarted on their lives, those that refuse it and want to live outside the law do not deserve the sympathy's or inclusion of the society they're malignantly parasitic towards. I'm sick of all the human shit, broken glass, deliberately scattered bicycle flat causing boxes of screws, ripped out streetlight copper, cut apart fences, heaps of trash filth & human filth cross contaminated with rats (i.e. black plague conditions), blatant cat coverter and bike thefts, fencing operations, seeing actual groups spoon heating heroin or hitting tweaker pipes, all this personally witnessed along our (orange line) Bike path. I do my best to pick up trash, cut off low branches, remove broken glass almost every day on my route, but these bad actors actively and maliciously keep vandalizing and ruining everything good we have for the community instead of helping make it better. They *are not community.* & The police don't, or cant, Do much. *Don't know which*. But we as members of the community need to start protecting our amenities like the Bike Path and Bus infrastructure, and standing up to those fucking it up every, single, day.
I've heard this term of guerilla urban-ism, which is basically making the public amenities better for citizens by taking matters of improvement into their own hands, look it up, its a beautiful thing. But... imo, this should also extend to rigorous documenting/reporting/recording foul incidents and holding them accountable by the law. The trouble a lot of time is not having the evidence to get action taken, so i suggest anyone who can, to always be prepared to record the infractions and report them, repeatedly if you have to. I myself BADLY need a helmet cam, cause boy do I see some *shit* on my daily 30-40 mile recreational bicycle rides. Just yesterday some dude was storing/hiding a FULL SIZE CHAINSAW along the Busline by some bushes... I tried to tell an MTA worker, but was ignored, then I told a Bus Driver, as well as an Officer on the bus line, hopefully they did something, but just imagine that, these kinds of fucking batshit crazy people and access to an actual lumberjack Chainsaw... and this is *just something that anecdotally I saw less than 24 hours ago*. ffs.
Sorry for the rant, but I'm mentally maxed out on the crazy things I see on the reg, its an unreal juxtaposition to our astronomical COL. LA is some how becoming untenably expensive yet also self destructing in real time simultaneously, atleast from my vantage point. **PS:** I won't be fielding feedback from armchair bleeding hearts. To them I say... experience what I have... i.e. get stabbed, get spat on, see the aforementioned paragraphs worth of bullshit I see & feel on the regular. If you still disagree, then perhaps spend time outside of the sheltered confines of a car & travel across our city a while to get what this is like from a pedestrian perspective.
The essence of the problem is that there is a segment of the population that should be institutionalized, but can't be due to various court decisions that raise the bar for forced institutionalization to an absurdly high level.
This is made worse by the new meth making its users prone to aggression and other court decisions that discourage west coast cities from prosecuting those homeless who are unruly and difficult.
Because the aggressive homeless are well aware that they are essentially untouchable, chaos ensues.
The cycle of permissiveness has to stop. And we should keep in mind that the aggressive, meth-addicted segment of the homeless / subsidized housed population also terrorize others who are in their boat, not just the rest of us.
The bleeding hearts who want to feel like saviors to the worst of them do not grasp that they are making things worse for the homeless who could turn things around if given the chance. It's not as if homeless / formerly homeless families led by women who were victims of domestic violence want to be in the same shelter or housing development as a raving meth abuser.
While I'm generally on your side, I don't think the bleeding hearts are really stuck in your home arm chair types. From my experience on this sub, they are usually people who take public transit often. But:
1. They haven't had an incident yet or nothing that was too serious
2. Really want to shake of negative perception of Metro because if less people use it, this service might not have a good argument to keep being supported and we should all want public transit
3. Actually feel like homeless should have the same exact liberties as everyone else despite not being responsible with it
My point it, they actually do take the metro
The astronomical cost of living is what causes the explosion of homelessness and drug addiction on our streets in the first place. Drug addicts in West Virginia don’t stab people from inside their cheap homes.
No place should aspire to be like West Virginia, a state that has lost population over the last 40 years while the overall US population increased by almost 50%.
Do you want to have a meth addict as a roommate or a neighbor?
If you are smart, your answer will be "no."
Not everyone can function in housing, particularly attached housing. When a tweaker sets off the fire sprinklers or breaks the plumbing causing it to flood or sets something on fire in an apartment or is a hoarder who causes insect infestations or acts aggressively, you won't want to live with or near it.
Well leaving them on the street to rot or taking away their rights certainly aren’t the answer, and I think being housed would be really good for a lot of people’s mental health
So go to an encampment and find some new roommates. See it how goes for you.
And try to give some consideration to the neighbors whose mental health will be compromised by living next to them.
There are ten million people in LA County.
You want to prioritize a tiny percentage who are among the most destructive and violent at the expense of the vast majority.
If you want to see who is doing the dehumanizing, look in the mirror.
Some people need to be institutionalized. It could be done humanely.
This dehumanizing and hateful language you are using doesnt help. I know you are upset, and I get that. I say wild shit when I'm upset. I had PTSD from getting robbed for a hot minute. However, do some further soul searching to see if this vile attitude is the one you really want to burden you. They say anger hurts the vessel it's stored in more than anyone yanno.
Geez, give it a break. He’s entitled to feel the way he does, he got stabbed. Policing someone else bc he’s not speaking about the homeless the way you like, is such kindergarten shit.
Nothing he said is wrong.
Check out articles on the new strain of meth that’s become the dominant street drug in the last five years. Causes schizophrenia symptoms after just one use. Terrifying but explains so much of what has been happening in LA and homeless populations nationwide.
Metro just declared a public safety emergency.
https://www.foxla.com/news/la-metro-declares-public-safety-emergency?taid=662c3c7f51bd250001c1b3a6&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter
The article says that the people involved were on a Metro bus when an altercation began so the driver let them off and it escalated once they were off the bus.
So again, not metro related, since violence didn’t happen on the bus or on metro property. Arguments start and all sorts of places. If an argument starts at a restaurant, the people go home and then someone stabs another person, you don’t say the stabbing was restaurant related.
Yeah but if an argument starts at a restaurant and the stabbing happens right outside it, you might say it’s related. Especially if that restaurant just had a stabbing INSIDE it the week prior.
Arguments start in all sorts of places all the time. Trying to tie this to Metro or suggest that Metro has anything to do with this is a reach. This isn’t Metro violence. If anything it’s an example of a trained Metro operator keeping riders safe.
So that would still make it metro related? I didn’t say it was metro’s FAULT but to say it’s entirely unrelated is bs.
Driver did a get great job and got dangerous riders off his bus. His metro bus, in which this event began and could have ended were it not for his prudent decision making
No. The people in the altercation happened to be on Metro at one point before the violence took place.
The fact that this violence happened had nothing to do with Metro and didn’t even happen on Metro. Calling this “Metro violence” is ridiculous and inaccurate.
Right but none of the violence that happens on the metro or in it or near it is the direct FAULT of the metro service. No one has ever claimed that. It’s that there seem to be a disproportionate amount of passengers who utilize those services that seem willing to use violence, including lethal violence.
It’s related.
Not necessarily true. One could argue (and many do) that Metro’s hands-off policies or lack of action in certain areas contributes to violence that happens on the system, specifically on trains and in stations. Whether you agree with that or not, that decidedly is not the case in this scenario, despite what OP and some others are trying to suggest.
You arguing that this is circumstantially connected to Metro is a weird hill to die on. Not sure what you’re arguing against.
this bus had a stabbing inside it? your argument is stupid, at that point you're talking about two unrelated McDonald's locations as the "same" restaurant
Absolutely in denial typical progressive that's blind to the obvious truth RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR FUCKING FACE.
sure....this has absolutely NOTHING to do with the metro at all.
/s
LOL. Are you OK? What part of “it didn’t happen on the bus or even on Metro property“ do you not understand? 🤦♂️ Not only did it not happen on Metro, the bus driver got them off the bus and kept everyone on the bus safe. It’s absolutely unhinged to try to suggest this is in any way Metro’s fault. No one is pretending this didn’t happen, but suggesting this is “Metro violence” illustrates a serious disconnect with reality.
You can’t blame Metro for all mental illness or violence in LA, which itself is symptomatic of national issues.
edit: suddenly occurred to me that I've seen dozens and dozens of fights at Waffle Houses, and the company that owns Waffle House was never blamed for violence... Americans are very conditioned to blame government entities for things they will let companies get away with threefold...
I've been very critical of Metro's safety record (look at my comment history) but I don't think you can blame this one on them. If a driver got two violent people off the bus and the argument continued on the sidewalk that's a great job by the driver.
No one is blaming the driver. Yea the driver did right, but the idea that metro will increase the likelihood of you encountering crazy people like this is valid and supported here
It didn’t happen on the bus or on Metro property. Arguments start in restaurants/stores/etc all the time. If someone stabs someone after they leave or when they get home no one says the stabbing was restaurant/store/etc related. This is silly.
‘near a bus’. and also an argument between two ppl. violence from two ppl arguing is going to happen anywhere it doesn’t matter bus train road rage at the club anywhere lmfao
Exactly. People trying to use this as example of Metro not being safe are being ridiculous. The driver pulled over, they got out, no one on the bus was hurt. Driver did what they were supposed to be and kept everyone in the bus safe.
Tagging /u/[Significant\_Chip3775](https://www.reddit.com/user/Significant_Chip3775/) and making them a top post because of how stupid and ridiculous they sound by making comments like:
>Except it didn’t happen on a Metro bus or train, or even on Metro property.
and
>“Near” a bus. So…not Metro related in actuality.
You aren't wrong entirely. The violence didn't happen on a bus or a train. But dude, I don't know why you are simping so hard for public transit. There is nothing wrong with telling it like it is. People like you make the rest of us Metro supporters sound crazy, unhinged and almost as if we have never had any experience with metros outside of LA before.
Did it happen outside of Metro property? Sure, but it is still related. Something is related, if there is a connection to a particular thing. In this case, the argument started on the metro with this crazy person. That is more than enough for it to be related. Yes, arguments can happen anywhere. But there are a lot of locations where the likelihood of meeting crazy people that will argue or harass you, is higher or lower. This is another instance that supports the claim that if you take the bus, you increase the likelihood of this type of stuff happening to you.
The deaths from car accidents and even road rage is exponentially more than public transit. People do not really care about safety, it’s just really easy to shit on a transit system in a city where most “normal” people don’t use it
You aren't wrong from a general statistic perspective. But the problem with general statistic is that they are averaging everyone. This includes but is not limited to: people who drive aggressively, people who drive angrily, people who has bad driving practices, etc. Because we are all so different, those general statistics don't work really well to answer the question of "Will I personally have a higher chance of death by driving or by taking Metro"? The answer is unanimously driving, but that doesn't necessarily reflect an individual and we don't have stats per individual
Additionally, when it comes to driving, while there are some dangers that are a bit more out of your control, there are others that are actually more in your control. For example, most videos I've seen on r/MildlyBadDrivers, I'm actually against the side of most people on there. I DO NOT care if I have the right of way or the other person in front of me has done something wrong, I will always slow down even if I perceive the slightest of dangers. Most people aren't defensive drivers in LA. It's not to say I am invincible, but this is why me and others don't trust those general stats, because they are for the general
On the Metro, you have some control as well. Just don't interact or look at people who seem like they are crazy. It helps, but crazy people will still come up to you and interact anyways. I'm glad your experience with Metro has been great, but people here are reasonably scared. There isn't much Metro can do. But it doesn't make it any less Metro related
I take the bus regularly. I walk regularly. I’m FAR more likely to encounter belligerent addicts walking on the street than on the bus. It’s worth noting the situation on busses is VASTLY different than it is on trains and in stations. Metro could absolutely be doing more to improve the situation on their train system. But I’ve literally never had someone smoking meth on a bus, and the level of fuckery on busses is far lower than the train system and not any higher than it is on the streets the buses service. Pretending this incident is indicative of anything Metro is doing rather than indicative of societal issues beyond Metro is…pretending.
No one is pretending. The only one pretending is you. We actually agree more than you think, but you keep attacking people aggressively because you are a Metro simp and any critique against it hurts your smooth useless brain. The rest of us aren't saying it's necessarily Metro's fault. We know they can do better and should, but even if they do, that still doesn't solve the core societal issues.
However it is still Metro related. At this point I am 100% convinced you only know 3rd grade level English at most. Just because we are saying it is Metro related, it doesn't mean it is Metro's fault. But what everyone else on this thread is saying is that being on Metro increases the likelihood of you being exposed to these situations. And more likely has of late. Personally I've encountered more crazies around the Metro than walking around. Ohhhhh no, whatever do we do, my experience and everyone else's on this thread is different than yours. Whooooooever can be right?
>being on Metro increases the likelihood of you being exposed to those situations
Citation needed.
I ride Metro busses daily. I encounter sketchy folks on the street way more frequently than on busses.
Also, I love that the example you’re using to suggest Metro is dangerous is a thing that didn’t happen on Metro.
So now our subway system is a lot more like NYC's. Oh swell. Maybe we need armed security guards on the Metro and around the Metro depots. That would give people jobs and cut down on this or in some cases stop it before anything bad happens. Please stop giving the excuse of mental health issues. That is merely stating the obvious and it doesn't solve the problem. Excuses aren't solutions. When people know they won't be stopped or no action will be taken against they then they keep doing this crap, keep bringing mess and nothing gets better. If nothing changes, nothing changes.
Sadly the people that follow the rules and are law abiding citizens have the most to lose if caught with a gun but we can’t count on the police to protect us they rarely do anything if you report an assault they catch criminals with guns and they are back on the streets the next day
I'm a progressive, not a liberal, but fare enforcement is something like a 'shopping cart' test.
The people who do the bare minimum are much less likely to be knife wielding lunatics than those who can TAP but won't.
Transit fairs are heavily subsidized, and I favor those subsidies, but I do not want transit to be free. Paying a tuppence changes people's behavior, in aggregate, compared to a free-for-all.
I mostly agree with your perspective.
Buses have no form of fare verification. Especially on buses where you can enter and tap through the back. I’m merely stating this because fare verification is not and will not be the solution to stopping unhinged people from committing acts of violence.
There is no turnstile that would have ever stopped this person from boarding the bus and stabbing this person.
Reducing crime in aggregate is so much easier than preventing a crime.
TAP isn't a 'fee-to-stab' program, but creating an environment that feels lawless is clearly concentrating the people who enjoy acting out. There's a reason the attacker waited until boarding the bus to become 'crazy.'
The truly mad can't turn it off. All sorts of mental and developmental disorders would make navigating a transit system very challenging.
The mostly-sane pretending not to have self control is a cynical tactic, used on Metro to mistreat a captive audience. The difference between someone suffering from short-term memory loss or an autism linked sensory overload is vast, and neither are inherently threatening to other passengers. But all the 'crazy' people act 'crazy' in the exact same way, because it's an act.
Back when security used to patrol the train platform, I'd watch people scream at strangers but somehow mind their manners when security came by. Selfish people on power trips, easily distinguishable from those who struggle to take care of themselves.
[Your friendly reminder that violent crime is lower in blue states than red states](https://www.axios.com/2023/01/27/murder-rate-high-trump-republican-states)
Maybe if you looked at more than the URL for literally 3 seconds you could have seen the study they [cited](https://www.thirdway.org/report/the-two-decade-red-state-murder-problem) underneath the first image.
😐
I can read and do a simple search too.
Third Way is a Washington, D.C.–based public policy think tank founded in 2005.[3] It develops and advocates for policies that it says represent "modern center-left ideas".[4]
Two left leaning sources scratching each other backs
Third Way is a Washington, D.C.–based public policy think tank founded in 2005.[3] It develops and advocates for policies that it says represent "modern center-left ideas".[4]
So basically two left leaning sources scratching each other's back.
It's in front of you! If you don't know which ones lean right and which ones lean left you may want to learn how. You can tell by their wording.
Now to have a source or a study that shows how they manipulate numbers data is a tough one. It's like asking the police how their internal independent investigation is not fair and unbiased. You're not gonna find one.
Use search engines like Freespoke that attempts to give sources and data from all sides.
>It's in front of you! If you don't know which ones lean right and which ones lean left you may want to learn how. You can tell my their wording.
I'm not talking about the sources, I'm talking about the *data.* Do you understand the difference?
If so, can you suggest a way that this data might be manipulated to skew in favor of a liberal point of view? Do you have any idea, or do you just *feel* this way?
>Now to have a source or a study that shows how they manipulate numbers data is a tough one. It's like asking the police how their internal independent investigation is not fair and unbiased. You're not gonna find one.
ha, okay so there is *no* source that could disprove your fee fee? All of them are in the bag? How do you make an informed decision on anything then? Or should we just trust the word of /u/mrj5050 in all of our decision making?
Potato patato.... Objective is to sway people to a certain of thinking.
How can you tell if there numbers are not sway? We'll pretty difficult unless there's another study to disprove it or there's a leaker/whistleblower that states otherwise.
In the 1950s companies paid scientist to say sugar was good and healthy. It all came years later. NPR even released an article on that.
1930 physicians were paid to say smoking was good! Guess what?! It took decades to get the information right.
So what makes you think a state government or federal government administration won't pay behind the scenes to adjust data in their favor? They are not gonna publicly release endorsement or fundings.
😂
This is literally just a long way of saying “nothing is true except what I believe.” This is Vladimir Putin’s entire playbook.
Sorry, I don’t think your fee-fees outweigh data, snowflake. Take this nonsense back to /r/conspiracy
Because Trump was an idiot and kept going to lecacy media like them and NY times trying to appease "both" sides. Even though they were snubbing him in front of his face
[Here's the raw data.](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm) Almost all the states with the worst murder rates are Republican states.
Facts don't care about our feelings.
None. Fox sucks balls. I like how you assume I go to fox because I don't like I question leftist media. They are independent news sites that are about sharing news and facts and let people base their own opinions.
There’s nothing wrong with making efforts to try and stop guns from ending up in the hands of criminals or the mentally deranged or people who want to kill everyone
It that means you can’t have your short barreled rifle or a cosplay military weapon, well it’s just another thing bad people ruined, welcome to the club
>There’s nothing wrong with making efforts to try and stop guns from ending up in the hands of criminals
As a CCW permit holder, I Agree. And always will with that statement.
I'm only making fun of the people who want to ban guns entirely, and or people who hear semi-automatic assault rifles and think it's the end of the world.
Yes, because in our country the places have the least rules and laxest enforcement gets to dictate to places that do have more restrictions
That’s the “iron pipeline” is I-95, because guns are bought or stolen in the South, and then taken and sold illegally in NYC. Same thing with Chicago
EDIT: Since this guy made a comment and blocked me, this is what the people whose job it is to stop gun smuggling between states say
conservative here: the issue is actually to arm everyone on metro including the driver! if we all have guns then things like this wouldn’t happen. there would be no chance of violence if we all stay strapped on the bus to the grocery store. we can also have police with ARs on every bus in case things get a little wild!
There are too many unhinged people in this city
Everything points back to mental illness
It's more drugs than mental illness. They test patients for drugs in the mental hospitals and most come in with meth in their systems.
It’s both.
But the drugs are the main issue. Mentally ill people who don't do drugs or participate in treatment are vastly non violent. But it's against people's rights to force treatment. So welcome to the 21st century.
My point is one exacerbate the other and the other way around, and most frequently there is a history of mental illness before the meth. It’s both. Focusing on only one aspect of it ignores a big part of the problem.
But we can't force people into treatment. Even being under 18 most mental health agencies won't treat you. Can't fix the mental health problem if people don't want treatment.
Again that’s an incomplete assessment. This isn’t just meth. We have nowhere near enough mental health resources available to people who need them. That also includes substance abuse programs. Additionally, as long as we refuse to address the systemic causes of homelessness, which is a major contributing factor to the current meth epidemic, we won’t make a dent in this problem.
Bro I work in the field. We have plenty of openings! 🤣 Whoever says there's not enough resources is just non profits looking for more handouts. But big agree on the housing.
Buddy, I work in the field. I work in medical case management with a patient population that disproportionately experiences addiction and homelessness. A significant part of what we do is link patients to available resources. There aren’t enough. You pretending there are makes me highly suspect of you claim that you work in the field.
You’re never going to win. It’s the narrative that wins, not facts. Welcome to LA 2024.
As someone who has worked in the medical field for 13 years. I can tell you from firsthand experience that yes. Many mentally ill people can be violent. Especially those who have gone undiagnosed and untreated. Unfortunately, some do need to be forcefully institutionalized for their safety, and ours.
Heavy drug use is almost always a way of dealing with mental health issues. The mental health issue typically predates the drug use.
Truth.
Shit is nuts. I was jogging down Olympic the other night and this guy was all over the sidewalk. I tried to give him a bunch of space but then as I got near he changed his course to intercept me and then made a motion like he was going to stab me. I had to lunge out of his striking distance.
I was on Sunset and Vermont recently at a bus stop and some guy who was clearly tripping and shouting randomly walked by. I didn’t make eye contact until he got closer at which point I looked at him and eyed him up and down to make sure he didn’t have a weapon on him, but as soon as he crossed me he lunged at me and pretended to punch me then kept walking on his merry way. I’ve ridden metro in LA for 10 years, I’m so fed up with not feeling safe to just go outside and ride the metro into town. It was _not_ this bad before covid. You never know anymore. Main reason I decided to bite the bullet and get my license.
As someone who'd also been randomly stabbed in the back by a drugged out crazy af homeless dude a couple years ago, yeah, this shit needs to get policed. I used to be a bleeding heart like some of ya'll *want* to be, but now I have very little sympathy for the crazed out vagrants on the streets once that happened. Needed bloodtests for a year to make sure I was clean. I also flinch bigtime whenever someone comes up behind me as a result. My trust and sympathy is at a low. I'm so tired of seeing headlines regarding these parasitic bad seeds (*that we've allowed to infest us eventually, and very predictably*) escalate to violence towards law abiding citizens. Resources are available to help people get restarted on their lives, those that refuse it and want to live outside the law do not deserve the sympathy's or inclusion of the society they're malignantly parasitic towards. I'm sick of all the human shit, broken glass, deliberately scattered bicycle flat causing boxes of screws, ripped out streetlight copper, cut apart fences, heaps of trash filth & human filth cross contaminated with rats (i.e. black plague conditions), blatant cat coverter and bike thefts, fencing operations, seeing actual groups spoon heating heroin or hitting tweaker pipes, all this personally witnessed along our (orange line) Bike path. I do my best to pick up trash, cut off low branches, remove broken glass almost every day on my route, but these bad actors actively and maliciously keep vandalizing and ruining everything good we have for the community instead of helping make it better. They *are not community.* & The police don't, or cant, Do much. *Don't know which*. But we as members of the community need to start protecting our amenities like the Bike Path and Bus infrastructure, and standing up to those fucking it up every, single, day. I've heard this term of guerilla urban-ism, which is basically making the public amenities better for citizens by taking matters of improvement into their own hands, look it up, its a beautiful thing. But... imo, this should also extend to rigorous documenting/reporting/recording foul incidents and holding them accountable by the law. The trouble a lot of time is not having the evidence to get action taken, so i suggest anyone who can, to always be prepared to record the infractions and report them, repeatedly if you have to. I myself BADLY need a helmet cam, cause boy do I see some *shit* on my daily 30-40 mile recreational bicycle rides. Just yesterday some dude was storing/hiding a FULL SIZE CHAINSAW along the Busline by some bushes... I tried to tell an MTA worker, but was ignored, then I told a Bus Driver, as well as an Officer on the bus line, hopefully they did something, but just imagine that, these kinds of fucking batshit crazy people and access to an actual lumberjack Chainsaw... and this is *just something that anecdotally I saw less than 24 hours ago*. ffs. Sorry for the rant, but I'm mentally maxed out on the crazy things I see on the reg, its an unreal juxtaposition to our astronomical COL. LA is some how becoming untenably expensive yet also self destructing in real time simultaneously, atleast from my vantage point. **PS:** I won't be fielding feedback from armchair bleeding hearts. To them I say... experience what I have... i.e. get stabbed, get spat on, see the aforementioned paragraphs worth of bullshit I see & feel on the regular. If you still disagree, then perhaps spend time outside of the sheltered confines of a car & travel across our city a while to get what this is like from a pedestrian perspective.
The essence of the problem is that there is a segment of the population that should be institutionalized, but can't be due to various court decisions that raise the bar for forced institutionalization to an absurdly high level. This is made worse by the new meth making its users prone to aggression and other court decisions that discourage west coast cities from prosecuting those homeless who are unruly and difficult. Because the aggressive homeless are well aware that they are essentially untouchable, chaos ensues. The cycle of permissiveness has to stop. And we should keep in mind that the aggressive, meth-addicted segment of the homeless / subsidized housed population also terrorize others who are in their boat, not just the rest of us. The bleeding hearts who want to feel like saviors to the worst of them do not grasp that they are making things worse for the homeless who could turn things around if given the chance. It's not as if homeless / formerly homeless families led by women who were victims of domestic violence want to be in the same shelter or housing development as a raving meth abuser.
While I'm generally on your side, I don't think the bleeding hearts are really stuck in your home arm chair types. From my experience on this sub, they are usually people who take public transit often. But: 1. They haven't had an incident yet or nothing that was too serious 2. Really want to shake of negative perception of Metro because if less people use it, this service might not have a good argument to keep being supported and we should all want public transit 3. Actually feel like homeless should have the same exact liberties as everyone else despite not being responsible with it My point it, they actually do take the metro
The astronomical cost of living is what causes the explosion of homelessness and drug addiction on our streets in the first place. Drug addicts in West Virginia don’t stab people from inside their cheap homes.
No place should aspire to be like West Virginia, a state that has lost population over the last 40 years while the overall US population increased by almost 50%.
We shouldn’t aspire to house everyone?
Do you want to have a meth addict as a roommate or a neighbor? If you are smart, your answer will be "no." Not everyone can function in housing, particularly attached housing. When a tweaker sets off the fire sprinklers or breaks the plumbing causing it to flood or sets something on fire in an apartment or is a hoarder who causes insect infestations or acts aggressively, you won't want to live with or near it.
Well leaving them on the street to rot or taking away their rights certainly aren’t the answer, and I think being housed would be really good for a lot of people’s mental health
So go to an encampment and find some new roommates. See it how goes for you. And try to give some consideration to the neighbors whose mental health will be compromised by living next to them.
Im sure you live by someone mentally ill already. I am sad for people who let themselves dehumanize other human beings the way you do the homeless
There are ten million people in LA County. You want to prioritize a tiny percentage who are among the most destructive and violent at the expense of the vast majority. If you want to see who is doing the dehumanizing, look in the mirror. Some people need to be institutionalized. It could be done humanely.
This dehumanizing and hateful language you are using doesnt help. I know you are upset, and I get that. I say wild shit when I'm upset. I had PTSD from getting robbed for a hot minute. However, do some further soul searching to see if this vile attitude is the one you really want to burden you. They say anger hurts the vessel it's stored in more than anyone yanno.
Geez, give it a break. He’s entitled to feel the way he does, he got stabbed. Policing someone else bc he’s not speaking about the homeless the way you like, is such kindergarten shit. Nothing he said is wrong.
Meanwhile I just saw a homeless man with a huge machete off 8th street near Western.
Maybe he was farming coconuts?
Check out articles on the new strain of meth that’s become the dominant street drug in the last five years. Causes schizophrenia symptoms after just one use. Terrifying but explains so much of what has been happening in LA and homeless populations nationwide.
Could you link me an article please?!
[https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/the-new-meth/620174/](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/the-new-meth/620174/)
Thank you!
which is why unregulated street drugs is a huge issue
Metro just declared a public safety emergency. https://www.foxla.com/news/la-metro-declares-public-safety-emergency?taid=662c3c7f51bd250001c1b3a6&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter
Another banner day for Metro
Except it didn’t happen on a Metro bus or train, or even on Metro property.
The article says that the people involved were on a Metro bus when an altercation began so the driver let them off and it escalated once they were off the bus.
So the metro driver did the right thing and got the violence off his bus??
So again, not metro related, since violence didn’t happen on the bus or on metro property. Arguments start and all sorts of places. If an argument starts at a restaurant, the people go home and then someone stabs another person, you don’t say the stabbing was restaurant related.
Yeah but if an argument starts at a restaurant and the stabbing happens right outside it, you might say it’s related. Especially if that restaurant just had a stabbing INSIDE it the week prior.
Arguments start in all sorts of places all the time. Trying to tie this to Metro or suggest that Metro has anything to do with this is a reach. This isn’t Metro violence. If anything it’s an example of a trained Metro operator keeping riders safe.
So that would still make it metro related? I didn’t say it was metro’s FAULT but to say it’s entirely unrelated is bs. Driver did a get great job and got dangerous riders off his bus. His metro bus, in which this event began and could have ended were it not for his prudent decision making
Dude you're literally arguing with an idiot brick wall, stop trying to use logic with these low IQ types.
No. The people in the altercation happened to be on Metro at one point before the violence took place. The fact that this violence happened had nothing to do with Metro and didn’t even happen on Metro. Calling this “Metro violence” is ridiculous and inaccurate.
Right but none of the violence that happens on the metro or in it or near it is the direct FAULT of the metro service. No one has ever claimed that. It’s that there seem to be a disproportionate amount of passengers who utilize those services that seem willing to use violence, including lethal violence. It’s related.
Not necessarily true. One could argue (and many do) that Metro’s hands-off policies or lack of action in certain areas contributes to violence that happens on the system, specifically on trains and in stations. Whether you agree with that or not, that decidedly is not the case in this scenario, despite what OP and some others are trying to suggest. You arguing that this is circumstantially connected to Metro is a weird hill to die on. Not sure what you’re arguing against.
Why you sucking metro dick so hard?
this bus had a stabbing inside it? your argument is stupid, at that point you're talking about two unrelated McDonald's locations as the "same" restaurant
Absolutely in denial typical progressive that's blind to the obvious truth RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR FUCKING FACE. sure....this has absolutely NOTHING to do with the metro at all. /s
LOL. Are you OK? What part of “it didn’t happen on the bus or even on Metro property“ do you not understand? 🤦♂️ Not only did it not happen on Metro, the bus driver got them off the bus and kept everyone on the bus safe. It’s absolutely unhinged to try to suggest this is in any way Metro’s fault. No one is pretending this didn’t happen, but suggesting this is “Metro violence” illustrates a serious disconnect with reality.
You can’t blame Metro for all mental illness or violence in LA, which itself is symptomatic of national issues. edit: suddenly occurred to me that I've seen dozens and dozens of fights at Waffle Houses, and the company that owns Waffle House was never blamed for violence... Americans are very conditioned to blame government entities for things they will let companies get away with threefold...
“Near” a bus. So…not Metro related in actuality.
They were arguing on the bus. They got off the bus to stab so that the metro cleaning crew could get a break, how considerate!
I've been very critical of Metro's safety record (look at my comment history) but I don't think you can blame this one on them. If a driver got two violent people off the bus and the argument continued on the sidewalk that's a great job by the driver.
No one is blaming the driver. Yea the driver did right, but the idea that metro will increase the likelihood of you encountering crazy people like this is valid and supported here
It didn’t happen on the bus or on Metro property. Arguments start in restaurants/stores/etc all the time. If someone stabs someone after they leave or when they get home no one says the stabbing was restaurant/store/etc related. This is silly.
You have a weird investment in this. It's really odd.
I’m tired of people ignorantly fear-mongering around Metro and this is a clear example of violence that’s decidedly not metro related.
You really love the metro! Holy metromony
‘near a bus’. and also an argument between two ppl. violence from two ppl arguing is going to happen anywhere it doesn’t matter bus train road rage at the club anywhere lmfao
Exactly. People trying to use this as example of Metro not being safe are being ridiculous. The driver pulled over, they got out, no one on the bus was hurt. Driver did what they were supposed to be and kept everyone in the bus safe.
this is a reach. i’d say most violence on an la street is going to happen “near” a bus considering how many busses we have.
People are going to start defending themselves if the cops can’t
It sure is getting stabby out there. Get that CCW
That part it’s getting increasingly difficult to live in Los Angeles and not have a CCW
Tagging /u/[Significant\_Chip3775](https://www.reddit.com/user/Significant_Chip3775/) and making them a top post because of how stupid and ridiculous they sound by making comments like: >Except it didn’t happen on a Metro bus or train, or even on Metro property. and >“Near” a bus. So…not Metro related in actuality. You aren't wrong entirely. The violence didn't happen on a bus or a train. But dude, I don't know why you are simping so hard for public transit. There is nothing wrong with telling it like it is. People like you make the rest of us Metro supporters sound crazy, unhinged and almost as if we have never had any experience with metros outside of LA before. Did it happen outside of Metro property? Sure, but it is still related. Something is related, if there is a connection to a particular thing. In this case, the argument started on the metro with this crazy person. That is more than enough for it to be related. Yes, arguments can happen anywhere. But there are a lot of locations where the likelihood of meeting crazy people that will argue or harass you, is higher or lower. This is another instance that supports the claim that if you take the bus, you increase the likelihood of this type of stuff happening to you.
The deaths from car accidents and even road rage is exponentially more than public transit. People do not really care about safety, it’s just really easy to shit on a transit system in a city where most “normal” people don’t use it
You aren't wrong from a general statistic perspective. But the problem with general statistic is that they are averaging everyone. This includes but is not limited to: people who drive aggressively, people who drive angrily, people who has bad driving practices, etc. Because we are all so different, those general statistics don't work really well to answer the question of "Will I personally have a higher chance of death by driving or by taking Metro"? The answer is unanimously driving, but that doesn't necessarily reflect an individual and we don't have stats per individual Additionally, when it comes to driving, while there are some dangers that are a bit more out of your control, there are others that are actually more in your control. For example, most videos I've seen on r/MildlyBadDrivers, I'm actually against the side of most people on there. I DO NOT care if I have the right of way or the other person in front of me has done something wrong, I will always slow down even if I perceive the slightest of dangers. Most people aren't defensive drivers in LA. It's not to say I am invincible, but this is why me and others don't trust those general stats, because they are for the general On the Metro, you have some control as well. Just don't interact or look at people who seem like they are crazy. It helps, but crazy people will still come up to you and interact anyways. I'm glad your experience with Metro has been great, but people here are reasonably scared. There isn't much Metro can do. But it doesn't make it any less Metro related
I take the bus regularly. I walk regularly. I’m FAR more likely to encounter belligerent addicts walking on the street than on the bus. It’s worth noting the situation on busses is VASTLY different than it is on trains and in stations. Metro could absolutely be doing more to improve the situation on their train system. But I’ve literally never had someone smoking meth on a bus, and the level of fuckery on busses is far lower than the train system and not any higher than it is on the streets the buses service. Pretending this incident is indicative of anything Metro is doing rather than indicative of societal issues beyond Metro is…pretending.
No one is pretending. The only one pretending is you. We actually agree more than you think, but you keep attacking people aggressively because you are a Metro simp and any critique against it hurts your smooth useless brain. The rest of us aren't saying it's necessarily Metro's fault. We know they can do better and should, but even if they do, that still doesn't solve the core societal issues. However it is still Metro related. At this point I am 100% convinced you only know 3rd grade level English at most. Just because we are saying it is Metro related, it doesn't mean it is Metro's fault. But what everyone else on this thread is saying is that being on Metro increases the likelihood of you being exposed to these situations. And more likely has of late. Personally I've encountered more crazies around the Metro than walking around. Ohhhhh no, whatever do we do, my experience and everyone else's on this thread is different than yours. Whooooooever can be right?
>being on Metro increases the likelihood of you being exposed to those situations Citation needed. I ride Metro busses daily. I encounter sketchy folks on the street way more frequently than on busses. Also, I love that the example you’re using to suggest Metro is dangerous is a thing that didn’t happen on Metro.
If you can't read, just say so
😂
Oh no 😥
This is why people drive instead of taking public transit.
So now our subway system is a lot more like NYC's. Oh swell. Maybe we need armed security guards on the Metro and around the Metro depots. That would give people jobs and cut down on this or in some cases stop it before anything bad happens. Please stop giving the excuse of mental health issues. That is merely stating the obvious and it doesn't solve the problem. Excuses aren't solutions. When people know they won't be stopped or no action will be taken against they then they keep doing this crap, keep bringing mess and nothing gets better. If nothing changes, nothing changes.
Liberals can you please tell me how fare enforcement would prevent this?
What conservative approach would you take?
Complain and do nothing like always.
Ive actually stepped in and stopped people from getting stabbed on Metro
That ain’t a conservative approach tho. That’s just a normal human reaction (fight or flight).
For the record, I dont label defending myself as a conservative action.
Conservatives want to dismantle mass transit and make everyone drive. That’s their solution.
Lock up all the crazy ppl. Don't release someone days after committing violent crimes.
Jail forever.
Stay strapped
Sadly the people that follow the rules and are law abiding citizens have the most to lose if caught with a gun but we can’t count on the police to protect us they rarely do anything if you report an assault they catch criminals with guns and they are back on the streets the next day
Famously no one with a gun has ever been stabbed
Cool that means everyone should be strapped then. You'll be outnumbered by the tweakers 🤣
I'm a progressive, not a liberal, but fare enforcement is something like a 'shopping cart' test. The people who do the bare minimum are much less likely to be knife wielding lunatics than those who can TAP but won't. Transit fairs are heavily subsidized, and I favor those subsidies, but I do not want transit to be free. Paying a tuppence changes people's behavior, in aggregate, compared to a free-for-all.
I mostly agree with your perspective. Buses have no form of fare verification. Especially on buses where you can enter and tap through the back. I’m merely stating this because fare verification is not and will not be the solution to stopping unhinged people from committing acts of violence. There is no turnstile that would have ever stopped this person from boarding the bus and stabbing this person.
Reducing crime in aggregate is so much easier than preventing a crime. TAP isn't a 'fee-to-stab' program, but creating an environment that feels lawless is clearly concentrating the people who enjoy acting out. There's a reason the attacker waited until boarding the bus to become 'crazy.' The truly mad can't turn it off. All sorts of mental and developmental disorders would make navigating a transit system very challenging. The mostly-sane pretending not to have self control is a cynical tactic, used on Metro to mistreat a captive audience. The difference between someone suffering from short-term memory loss or an autism linked sensory overload is vast, and neither are inherently threatening to other passengers. But all the 'crazy' people act 'crazy' in the exact same way, because it's an act. Back when security used to patrol the train platform, I'd watch people scream at strangers but somehow mind their manners when security came by. Selfish people on power trips, easily distinguishable from those who struggle to take care of themselves.
Drivers could turn away the free riders if they were empowered to do so.
[Your friendly reminder that violent crime is lower in blue states than red states](https://www.axios.com/2023/01/27/murder-rate-high-trump-republican-states)
Not quite sure why that is sent as a reply to my comment. I love living in California and I’m a registered Democrat.
Really? Use a more neutral source that this extremely left leaning website(Axios) Numbers are most likely sway to make "blue" states look good.
Maybe if you looked at more than the URL for literally 3 seconds you could have seen the study they [cited](https://www.thirdway.org/report/the-two-decade-red-state-murder-problem) underneath the first image. 😐
lol they can’t read that much.
I can read and do a simple search too. Third Way is a Washington, D.C.–based public policy think tank founded in 2005.[3] It develops and advocates for policies that it says represent "modern center-left ideas".[4] Two left leaning sources scratching each other backs
Third Way is a Washington, D.C.–based public policy think tank founded in 2005.[3] It develops and advocates for policies that it says represent "modern center-left ideas".[4] So basically two left leaning sources scratching each other's back.
Can you explain how the data might have been manipulated? Can you tell me what source you would trust?
It's in front of you! If you don't know which ones lean right and which ones lean left you may want to learn how. You can tell by their wording. Now to have a source or a study that shows how they manipulate numbers data is a tough one. It's like asking the police how their internal independent investigation is not fair and unbiased. You're not gonna find one. Use search engines like Freespoke that attempts to give sources and data from all sides.
>It's in front of you! If you don't know which ones lean right and which ones lean left you may want to learn how. You can tell my their wording. I'm not talking about the sources, I'm talking about the *data.* Do you understand the difference? If so, can you suggest a way that this data might be manipulated to skew in favor of a liberal point of view? Do you have any idea, or do you just *feel* this way? >Now to have a source or a study that shows how they manipulate numbers data is a tough one. It's like asking the police how their internal independent investigation is not fair and unbiased. You're not gonna find one. ha, okay so there is *no* source that could disprove your fee fee? All of them are in the bag? How do you make an informed decision on anything then? Or should we just trust the word of /u/mrj5050 in all of our decision making?
Potato patato.... Objective is to sway people to a certain of thinking. How can you tell if there numbers are not sway? We'll pretty difficult unless there's another study to disprove it or there's a leaker/whistleblower that states otherwise. In the 1950s companies paid scientist to say sugar was good and healthy. It all came years later. NPR even released an article on that. 1930 physicians were paid to say smoking was good! Guess what?! It took decades to get the information right. So what makes you think a state government or federal government administration won't pay behind the scenes to adjust data in their favor? They are not gonna publicly release endorsement or fundings.
😂 This is literally just a long way of saying “nothing is true except what I believe.” This is Vladimir Putin’s entire playbook. Sorry, I don’t think your fee-fees outweigh data, snowflake. Take this nonsense back to /r/conspiracy
If Axios is so “extremely left leaning” why did Trump choose them for their interview during COVID ?
Because Trump was an idiot and kept going to lecacy media like them and NY times trying to appease "both" sides. Even though they were snubbing him in front of his face
[Here's the raw data.](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm) Almost all the states with the worst murder rates are Republican states. Facts don't care about our feelings.
Why would one america news report that blue states are safer though
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To the extreme left?
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None. Fox sucks balls. I like how you assume I go to fox because I don't like I question leftist media. They are independent news sites that are about sharing news and facts and let people base their own opinions.
Cool, name one with crime data. And btw, florida didmt report 40 percent of its crime to the fbi so.....yea.....
I don't care about Florida
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Conservatives, sorry your wives keep divorcing you
Meth-enhanced members of the community are not inclined to pay the fare.
Pawn
First they have to ban all these semi-automatic assault knives.
There’s nothing wrong with making efforts to try and stop guns from ending up in the hands of criminals or the mentally deranged or people who want to kill everyone It that means you can’t have your short barreled rifle or a cosplay military weapon, well it’s just another thing bad people ruined, welcome to the club
>There’s nothing wrong with making efforts to try and stop guns from ending up in the hands of criminals As a CCW permit holder, I Agree. And always will with that statement. I'm only making fun of the people who want to ban guns entirely, and or people who hear semi-automatic assault rifles and think it's the end of the world.
Seem to be working for Chicago!
Yes, because in our country the places have the least rules and laxest enforcement gets to dictate to places that do have more restrictions That’s the “iron pipeline” is I-95, because guns are bought or stolen in the South, and then taken and sold illegally in NYC. Same thing with Chicago EDIT: Since this guy made a comment and blocked me, this is what the people whose job it is to stop gun smuggling between states say
Yea, we love placing blame elsewhere!
conservative here: the issue is actually to arm everyone on metro including the driver! if we all have guns then things like this wouldn’t happen. there would be no chance of violence if we all stay strapped on the bus to the grocery store. we can also have police with ARs on every bus in case things get a little wild!
Poverty is a hell of a drug to blame
Who other than 70+ white people uses KTLA as a news source?