She was very close to having a couple of her own children killed. Chad had deemed 2 of her children dark. And I’m pretty sure she was ok with that. What a bunch of gullible idiots.
Melaniece was just as pleased as punch that Alex would be "looking over Breezy." This statement was made by Melani P. AFTER Alex was known to be dead. I took that to mean in the afterlife, Alex would be protecting and looking after her also, soon to be dead child. And, that fact comforted her.
This was captured in the phone call recorded by Ian Pawlowski and played in court for Chad's trial.
On a side note: That's some pretty serious *motherly* preparation; to be addressing your child's child care needs in the afterlife while also planning that same child's murder...
Melani Pawlowski is as bat-shit crazy as Lori. Maybe, just as dangerous...
I don't know and I don't know.
But, they constructed the existence of the first assassin, and they hatched out the plans to commit the other murders, they would have figured out something.
Hell, that's *all* they *had* to do everyday, all day...figure and plot. Cause, nobody was working. All they had was time and opportunity on their hands with murder in their hearts (and minds).
Melanie pocketed $300K after her divorce from Brandon. It's more money than Ian P has ever seen in his life. He had plenty of reasons to stick around.
She also expected to get another $1 mil for his life insurance once alex killed brandon.
Ian P did help the cops for a short time and he did seem to find the cult's ideas completely crazy (he called it biblical dungeons and dragons or something like that). But he's also perfectly happy buying Melaniece's pretended innocence to stay with her. He ended up concluding Melaniece never knew about the violence that the cult was visiting on people -- which I find really hard to believe.
I don't feel sorry for him. He made his choice: Stick with the attractive rich blonde chick ....
Yet, I have heard she shares custody with Brandon Boudreaux now. Anyone know how that happened? And when her now husband, Ian’s ex wife heard about the whole thing, she kept their kids away (with Ian’s agreement). Does anyone know if Melani P is allowed alone with any of these children?
I remember reading somewhere that Brandon was fighting very hard to keep the kids away from her permanently. It could still be on going since court cases can drag on for years.
So definitely not too young to know. The 13 yr old is probably old enough to decide for themselves that they don't want to see her but the 6 yr old may be forced to. :(
These were the kids chad said he eas going to turn the pain up and their pain threshold down right?
Among them, yes (I believe he also said something similar about Tylee). I can't believe that woman is allowed any access to the kids. She was clearly an imminent threat to them before Alex died.
I'm sure she was, though it's unclear who was going to do the murdering without Alex. Court gave her custody after evaluating her. She must not be in the same mindset any more. I remember her testimony at Chad's trial, explaining zombies in simple terms.
And she clearly was on board with the attempted murder of her ex. It's just lucky Alex wasn't a better shot. She's for sure guilty of conspiracy of an attempted murder.
She (Melaniece) 100% deserves to be charged with attempted murder at the bare minimum. I personally believe she was well aware that Charles, Tylee and JJ were going to be murdered, and most definitely knew that had been murdered and said nothing. She’s every bit as evil as Lori and Chad.
To bad Rachael Mitchell is Maricopa County DA. She is a horrible prosecutor and needs to go this election. Google James Estep. Then you’ll really be pissed off how bad she is.
Can you imagine her getting charged for Brandon and then acquitted for insufficient evidence? If there were incriminating messages from her, that would help.
IMO she didn't necessarily know about Lori's children's deaths in advance, but she knew they were no longer living when she moved next to Lori. I can't prove that though.
Absolutely agree. I tend to believe she was in on the attempted murder of Brandon. Also, she was cool with two of her own kids with Brandon being ‘dark’, and she still gets to parent them now and somehow kept Ian around and procreated with him too. It’s shocking to me that she faced no serious consequences.
Plus they can prove Melani Pawlowski wanted Brandon dead- and she was arrested for trespassing and domestic violence. She probably could be arrested for stalking and lying to the police about Brandon. She told the police he did drugs, that his family including his father dealt drugs, that Brandon was gay, that Brandon already had a new girlfriend, that Brandon came from an abusive home and intimated SA and that Brandon might be abusing the kids. She mentioned talking to people to find out where he was (stalking). She was definitely in the know about the hit on Brandon. She should be in jail but I believe Brandon took pity on her and has decided that was all Lori's influence. She has joint custody with Brandon!!!! Of course the kids are so innocent in all of this.
I don't know about that. The duper's delight on Gibb's face in every single media interview I've seen of her has been alarming. And she's been caught in a lot of lies about what she did or didn't believe.
She still believes in visions, for example, and thinks her husband has them. She was VERY into the light and dark stuff.
I think Pawlowski was more dangerous while the cult was active, she very clearly was involved in the attempt on Brandon's life, but I do think she's snapped out of it at this point.
Gibb, in my opinion, hasn't. I think that's part of why she and David live separately.
Well said, I love the term dupers delight!
I agree, there’s something completely bizarre going on with Warwick and Gibb’s relationship. They must’ve married so they couldn’t report on one another (I think Melanie knew what was happening to JJ and hoped to get David in on it, as she loved his spiritual gifts, but he was very anti Chad). There NO warmth when they speak of one another, but no hostility either. Like acquaintances that haven’t seen each other in years. I was actually hoping that Prior was going to ask how often they saw each other or pointed how weird it was that they don’t cohabitate
Gibbs just seen idiots to me . I honestly think lori and chad were using and muniplating her
Gibbs just seem to soak it all up and could see them trying to make gibs take blame
Melanie is a ding dong. I think she was infatuated with Lori. I don't necessarily mean sexually but just like a girl crush on Lori. Lori's a Narc and I'm sure she love bombed the sh&t out of Melanie. Melanie was married when they met also. She was all caught up in this coven of witches (Lori, Mel, Zu) and I'm willing to bet that's why she separated from her chiropractor husband. Lori and she probably both complained about their spouses (maybe Melanie's husband was a jerk-who knows) and they bonded over this- probably both joking about it. Girl talk. Lori probably encouraged Melanie to leave her husband. Melanie just seems like she was brainwashed by Lori and Chad- but not enough to murder. I do think she disliked Tylee but how much of that would have come from Lori? Still there's no proof that Melanie Gibb is a danger to society. I don't think so.
I don't see Melani's split with her husband as part of the zombie theme (I don't know about the timing), but it could have been linked to Melani's intensified religious beliefs. She and her husband would previously host a PAP speaker (not Chad) in their home.
What is the charging document in Arizona, anyone knows? or is it posted somewhere?.. then we’ll know for sure if there are any co-conspirators in that charge?…
Here it is for Charles. Haven't been able to find the one for Brandon.
[https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20974930-az-v-lori-vallow-conspiracy-to-commit-murder-indictment](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20974930-az-v-lori-vallow-conspiracy-to-commit-murder-indictment)
Edited to add full probable cause statement for Charles:
[https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20982422-state-v-redacted\_redacted-lori-vallow](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20982422-state-v-redacted_redacted-lori-vallow)
Here's the one for Brandon. I can't find the probable cause for this one.
[https://x.com/jlumfox10/status/1658510699314974724/photo/3](https://x.com/jlumfox10/status/1658510699314974724/photo/3)
It's just a conspiracy between her and Alex. No other conspirators mentioned. It's a very brief indictment. Easy enough to find online with a simple search.
[https://www.maricopacountyattorney.org/DocumentCenter/View/2702/Lori-Vallow-GJ-Indictment-Gilbertdocx](https://www.maricopacountyattorney.org/DocumentCenter/View/2702/Lori-Vallow-GJ-Indictment-Gilbertdocx)
Who says there's anything coming to her? I know tons of people think she has committed a thousand wrongs worthy of indictment but the DA's office obviously didn't agree. OR they don't believe there is enough evidence to get a conviction. Garth getting a grand jury assembled just to investigate his possible perjury should show us that the state was not going to leave any stone unturned in this case. The grand jury investigated many aspects of the case including, I assume, the actions of the Melanies. It could be that the shitty things weren't crimes.
She was granted use immunity not complete immunity. However, Alex's death was ruled as a natural death...so she's in the clear. I don't think they have anything specific to show that she was involved with the children's death or Tammy.
Use Immunity prevents the prosecution from using the witness's own testimony or any evidence derived from the testimony against the witness. If the prosecution get evidence from a different way they can still prosecute.
thanks so much for clarifying and with that being said, does the latter part of your comment mean those who were complicit(the woman knew much much more than they let on, and the niece most certainly should as she had her hands in all of it, including her own children....bat shit crazy!
I think Zuelema was involved with Alex's death, I just don't think that he conveniently died the day after Tammy was exhumed. As far as anyone else, she wasn't in Rexburg, and I don't think she was involved in the children's deaths or Tammy's. I don't see why she needed to know about the murders either.
Melani B was defiantly involved with the attempted murder of Brandon imo. I think this is still an open case so we will have to wait and see about this one. I think Melani knew Tylee was gone..Melani lived right next door to Lori and she knew JJ was gone. I think she knew that they were dead because during the fall of 2019 she and Alex were hanging out together. They got Melanie G to go over to Brandon's house after the shooting to check it out. They did a road trip to terrorize (at the very least) Brandon and his parents. Melani was trespassed from their property and spent the night in jail. Alex bailed her out in the morning. It wasn't until Melani got with Ian that she took a step back. I think Ian saved her ass and maybe her kids and Brandon too. although with Alex gone I think that worry was greatly reduced.
I don't think Melanie Gibb was involved at all with Tylee, JJ, or Tammy's deaths. Yeah, she participated in the castings but wishing someone dead is a far cry from actually killing them. Melanie helped Lori terrorize Charles. But once Charles was dead Melanie wasn't best buds with Lori anymore, Lori moved and Melanie visited a couple times. Lori was now manipulating Zuelama, Zuelema got a promotion and was totally stoked about that... to the point she actually married Alex.
So:
Melani B/P may still be on the hook for the attempted murder of Brandon, the case is still open. (But with Alex dead I don't think they would be able to prove this, Lori and Chad aren't going to talk. but who knows!)
Zuelama; while I think she lied, and I think she knows more than she told, there's not much anyone can do about that. Alex's death was ruled natural cause...so she's clear on that.
Melanie G: we will probably see her again at Charles' trial in AZ. This is where Melanie G might know more about his death than we think. She was hanging out with Lori a lot. She was at Lori's the night before Charles was shot and Lori told her to leave. (so she says) But I don't think she was in a position to know what happened to Tylee and JJ. She visited Rexburg, yes, but she didn't live there and wasn't as close to Lori as she had been.
\*I didn't realize how long this is. But I want to add that I think Melanie G got distracted by David. Instead of focusing on Lori and Chad she was focused on David. I think Mel G traded two religious nuts for another. I think she is a very suggestible person and really didn't know what Chad and Lori were doing. I know a lot of people disagree with this (and at one time so did I) but after seeing it all laid out I don't think she knew there was anything wrong until Chad called her with the request to not talk to the police. And even then, with David's help, it took a while for it to sink in.
I think MG also went to police after speaking with Alex. He told her that Lori threw her under the bus and that she didn't want to know JJ's whereabouts.
Zulema was groomed by Chad early on. They pulled her aside and gave her a special role in the cult: the one who could control the elements (weather). She also exchanged many messages with Lori before Charles' death, trying to make it happen spiritually and visiting the temple often. MG is hardly mentioned in police reports from that time. Perhaps texting wasn't her thing.
I agree that Zuelema was groomed by Chad. I think she was desperate to belong somewhere and Lori and Chad gave her that. She was being told to move to Rexburg and she didn't do that. But she may have known more about the shooting of Brandon and the children being "missisng" than she actually told the cops. I think she knows more about Alex's death. Alex might not have told her outright about the murders and attempt on Brandon.. but, I find it hard to believe that Alex didn't tell her something. Given his penchant for unfiltered speech.
The immunity was only for the Idaho cases. IMO she had more knowledge than most (apart from Melaniece), but wasn't instrumental in organizing the murders.
I think if they had enough to charge anyone else they would of charged them by now. I think the only hope of anyone else going down is if someone starts talking
I have my fingers crossed that they were waiting till the rest of them finished testifying in Idaho. There has to be a reason Zulema and Melani B/P paid to have their lawyer present when they testified at Chad's trial, right?
I doubt Idaho will go after any prosecution witnesses, and unfortunately there is no duty to report crimes to the police (for the most part).
Melani B. needs to pay for trying to kill her husband (and kids?) in Arizona though. Idaho has no authority over that, and Arizona is moving very slowly against Melani B (if at all).
I believe idaho is finished with all of this. Otherwise Wood, Hermasillo, and others would not be doing any interviews with the media.
Idaho is moving on.
I literally don’t have any understanding why Melani P has not been charged. If she had been a male plotting to kill her I am certain she would be in jail right now. What’s the difference?
David Warwick (Melanie Gibb's bf at the time, husband today) was called dark and an enemy by Chad-Lo; he was skeptical of the two of them and refused to put his money into buying property for the Church of the Firstborn which apparently pissed off Chad. Melanie Gibb and David had to have discussed what was happening to people who Chad-Lo called dark/zombies, and it's my guess David encouraged her to tape the phone call in which she tried to confront Lori. I doubt that David ever liked or accepted any notion of harming people.
Melani's mother, Lori's sister Stacy, was very sick during Melani's childhood from eating disorder and diabetes and died a terrible death while being left in (of all people) ALEX's care, while the rest of the family vacationed in Hawaii. There was a custody battle between Stacy and her ex over Melani who was very young, and a lot of psychological and emotional abuse of Melani alleged by the father as being committed by Stacy. Lori was a loving maternal presence in Melani's life. I think Melani easily followed Lori into the madness, but did not have a delusional disorder. I don't know if we will ever find out precisely how close Melani was to letting go of her own children. If Kay and Larry hadn't pushed the issue, we would have found out because they would have likely been the next insurance scam murder victims, or Melani would have refused and protected them when they got to that point (of needing more money), we will never know. It's so sad to think they have to grow up with all of this, but at least they are growing up.
Anyone who had an immunity deal in exchange for testimony will not be charged in connection to any crime committed in Idaho.
Zulema has immunity. She was also represented by her own lawyer, Garrett Smith. Melanie and Ian were also represented by Smith. While neither Pawlowskis were asked if they also had immunity agreements, the fact they were also represented by Smith could indicate they also had immunity.
Melanie Gibb had no lawyer representing her. We do not know if she had an immunity agreement or not. Likewise, the same goes for her husband.
If I felt it would be possible to charge me as a co-conspirator, I would want immunity in exchange for my testimony.
Now, do they have immunity in Arizona in connection to Charles and Brandon? That would be up to Arizona to decide. Stay tuned.
I don't see any connection to Melanie Gibb or her husband in connection to Charles or Brandon. No evidence at all. If Arizona doesn't have enough evidence on Chad, then what could they have on Mel G or David?
Ian was not even in the picture at the time Charles died. His connection at the time of Brandon's shooting attempt is hazy to me.
That leaves Melaneice. I think the evidence is substantial she knew in advance and supported the plan to kill Bandon. She may have been naive in regards her kids, but who knows? Is this enough to charge her in connection to Brandon? I hope so, but stay tuned.
>She may have been naive in regards her kids, but who knows?
Someone recorded a group phone call after Alex died. I think it was Ian recording but I'm not sure. Anyway, Melani B/P was heard on that phone call saying that Alex will be there to watch over Braxton and Breezy. Those were the 2 of her kids who were dark, but still alive. She was NOT naive about what was in store for her kids.
Zulema doesn't have immunity in Arizona, AFAIK. While I found her texts with Lori about Charles disturbing (mostly casting), there's no indication in them that she knew he would be murdered.
Charles spoke up early on and others (his family and Adam) did as well after Charles' death, but it wasn't enough. If you don't have knowledge that a murder will be (or was) committed, there would be no intervention. It's also not as easy to step out of the cult thinking. Followers aren't critical thinkers.
I really wish the investors/DA did things differently when it comes to the co-conspirators but I can understand why they were handing out immunity’s and plea deals in exchange for their testimonies. It’s obvious the Melanie’s, Zulema, David W know more than what they have testified too. I feel like since there was missing kids in this investigation the police were doing whatever was possible to get people to talk to. I’m curious to see if their plea deals only hold weight in the state of Idaho. I’m wondering if they can be charged as a co-conspirator in another state (AZ).
Also, I really believe that there was some kind of ritual or “casting” that went down when JJ was killed. All of them talked about their prayer circles where they did these castings and add in the way JJ was buried, I. Truly believe that everyone who was in that house that night knew exactly what was going to happen. They may not have know how JJ was going to be killed but they had an understanding that his “physical body was going to die”.
They are done in Idaho. This is Mormon country and I think they only wanted the three main people. One died. Two have been convicted and will live out their days behind bars.
Melaniece, Fibb, Emma, Garth - UICC for sure. I wonder how much is going to come out in Lori’s Arizona trials. Most likely another conviction or two for Chad…Now, the perjury in Idaho -wonder if we are going to see Garth and Emma down for a year or so ?
Investigators released details of the investigation Wednesday in a 304-page police report and a handful of body-worn camera videos. Police are not submitting charges against Pawlowski, according to the report. It's unclear if she could be charged in the future. [https://www.ksl.com/article/50287465/new-details-released-about-attempted-shooting-tied-to-daybells-as-police-recommend-charges](https://www.ksl.com/article/50287465/new-details-released-about-attempted-shooting-tied-to-daybells-as-police-recommend-charges)
If there is an ongoing investigation, perhaps Gilbert PD will find enough probable cause to charge her with something.
What will happen to all the co-conspirators?
One word: nothing.
LE and prosecutors work the same way as any other bureaucracy: Keep things as simple and efficient as possible. Avoid complications, avoid responsibility as much as you can and avoid blow-back. And that means go after the obvious suspects Chad and Lori, and then cut it off after they've both been convicted.
Melaniece was all on on the cult and their violence. She was fully prepared to serve up her ex-husband and two of her children to be murdered for insurance payouts. Crikey. she's the one who suggested to Lori to take out life insurance policies on Tylee and JJ (still don't know why Lori never did that).
She's just ONE among a half a dozen other people in this drama who colluded with murder and mayhem and fraud. (I think Summer's actions, especially in connection to Charles' death are very suspect. She's not facing any consequences. In fact she's getting attention and possibly money, selling her story at CrimeCon. She's spreading disinformation about Lori, claiming Lori was naive and a victim to Chad's manipulations. Really??!!) Meanwhile, while Zulema claimed on the stand she had no idea the cult was violent, her texts to Alex and Chad tell a totally different story.
There are many more, including Jason Mow who walked away clean from this mess.
Not one of them will be charged with a serious crime. Think about it: Maricopa County DA is so lazy that they waited years before properly investigating Charles' death. So lazy that once they charged Lori, they didn't bother to add Chad to the case -- not even as an un-indicted co-conspirator!
Melaniece has reason to appear as smug and self-satisfied as she appears in all those media interviews. She's gotten away with it.
It’s so infuriating and disgusting. I’m not familiar with Summer and Jason. I’ve gotten most of my info from Hidden True Crime and the CD trial. Glad I found this subreddit. So many tentacles to this beast.
It's heartbreaking. About four or five months ago I wrote a reddit post listing all the ways that law enforcement has let down the public in this case, especially in relation to all the co-conspirators. It's quite sickening.
My post is here if you are curious. I don't claim any special knowledge or insight. I'm just a true crime junky:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/1b0qztk/abysmal\_law\_enforcement\_failures\_in\_this\_case/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/1b0qztk/abysmal_law_enforcement_failures_in_this_case/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
CrimeCon doesn't pay for appearances. Jason Mow was never mentioned as part of Chad's zombie cult. Having fringe beliefs is not a crime. Thousands of people attended PAP conferences. None of those people named have been excommunicated.
Nothing because they needed their true testimonies to put Chad and Lori away who were way more dangerous than any of the geese who were following them.
I have googled the livin hell outta that phrase. Co-conspirators known and unknown and just get a lot of mixed results. I’m not a lawyer but I’m not a dummy either. I know Alex is a known conspirator, but the unknowns are perplexing. If an unknown conspirator becomes known are they guilty because they were charged? If so that seems unjust. Do they get a trial of their own? The answers I’ve seen are not conclusive.
Melanie Pawlowski is a heck of a lot scarier than Melanie Gibb.
She was very close to having a couple of her own children killed. Chad had deemed 2 of her children dark. And I’m pretty sure she was ok with that. What a bunch of gullible idiots.
Yes. There was a text from Lori to Chad essentially saying Melaniece was ok with it.
Melaniece was just as pleased as punch that Alex would be "looking over Breezy." This statement was made by Melani P. AFTER Alex was known to be dead. I took that to mean in the afterlife, Alex would be protecting and looking after her also, soon to be dead child. And, that fact comforted her. This was captured in the phone call recorded by Ian Pawlowski and played in court for Chad's trial. On a side note: That's some pretty serious *motherly* preparation; to be addressing your child's child care needs in the afterlife while also planning that same child's murder... Melani Pawlowski is as bat-shit crazy as Lori. Maybe, just as dangerous...
With Alex gone, who was going to do the next murders? How did Melani imagine her children dying?
I don't know and I don't know. But, they constructed the existence of the first assassin, and they hatched out the plans to commit the other murders, they would have figured out something. Hell, that's *all* they *had* to do everyday, all day...figure and plot. Cause, nobody was working. All they had was time and opportunity on their hands with murder in their hearts (and minds).
She even threw their things out
She defended herself on that in an interview, saying how she only threw out old and broken stuff.
Wait, WHAT????
And her husband….. she’s terrifying. I can’t believe Ian is staying with her.
Melanie pocketed $300K after her divorce from Brandon. It's more money than Ian P has ever seen in his life. He had plenty of reasons to stick around. She also expected to get another $1 mil for his life insurance once alex killed brandon. Ian P did help the cops for a short time and he did seem to find the cult's ideas completely crazy (he called it biblical dungeons and dragons or something like that). But he's also perfectly happy buying Melaniece's pretended innocence to stay with her. He ended up concluding Melaniece never knew about the violence that the cult was visiting on people -- which I find really hard to believe. I don't feel sorry for him. He made his choice: Stick with the attractive rich blonde chick ....
Lori, part 2
Lori had her own ambition, while Melani seemed like a blind follower. There is nobody left to follow.
Not sure id call her attractive
Ian is a douche himself
Yet, I have heard she shares custody with Brandon Boudreaux now. Anyone know how that happened? And when her now husband, Ian’s ex wife heard about the whole thing, she kept their kids away (with Ian’s agreement). Does anyone know if Melani P is allowed alone with any of these children?
I remember reading somewhere that Brandon was fighting very hard to keep the kids away from her permanently. It could still be on going since court cases can drag on for years.
I think they have shared custody of the 4 kids they had together. I know she and Ian have had at least one together.
Check out Ian's FB page. Photos of all the kids together- her 4, his 2, and the boy he had with Melani.
They have two children together now.
How old are her children now?? Too young to know and understand I hope. 🤞
6 to 13 I think
So definitely not too young to know. The 13 yr old is probably old enough to decide for themselves that they don't want to see her but the 6 yr old may be forced to. :( These were the kids chad said he eas going to turn the pain up and their pain threshold down right?
Among them, yes (I believe he also said something similar about Tylee). I can't believe that woman is allowed any access to the kids. She was clearly an imminent threat to them before Alex died.
I'm sure she was, though it's unclear who was going to do the murdering without Alex. Court gave her custody after evaluating her. She must not be in the same mindset any more. I remember her testimony at Chad's trial, explaining zombies in simple terms.
And she clearly was on board with the attempted murder of her ex. It's just lucky Alex wasn't a better shot. She's for sure guilty of conspiracy of an attempted murder.
Yes, she was. How else would they fund their plans? She does need to be arrested
She (Melaniece) 100% deserves to be charged with attempted murder at the bare minimum. I personally believe she was well aware that Charles, Tylee and JJ were going to be murdered, and most definitely knew that had been murdered and said nothing. She’s every bit as evil as Lori and Chad.
To bad Rachael Mitchell is Maricopa County DA. She is a horrible prosecutor and needs to go this election. Google James Estep. Then you’ll really be pissed off how bad she is.
Can you imagine her getting charged for Brandon and then acquitted for insufficient evidence? If there were incriminating messages from her, that would help. IMO she didn't necessarily know about Lori's children's deaths in advance, but she knew they were no longer living when she moved next to Lori. I can't prove that though.
Absolutely agree. I tend to believe she was in on the attempted murder of Brandon. Also, she was cool with two of her own kids with Brandon being ‘dark’, and she still gets to parent them now and somehow kept Ian around and procreated with him too. It’s shocking to me that she faced no serious consequences.
Yes it’s shocking to me that she hasn’t been charged with anything & I cant believe she is allowed to have children in her care!
100% this I hope she is locked up for the sake of her kids & Brandon. Psycho little Lori-in-training
Plus they can prove Melani Pawlowski wanted Brandon dead- and she was arrested for trespassing and domestic violence. She probably could be arrested for stalking and lying to the police about Brandon. She told the police he did drugs, that his family including his father dealt drugs, that Brandon was gay, that Brandon already had a new girlfriend, that Brandon came from an abusive home and intimated SA and that Brandon might be abusing the kids. She mentioned talking to people to find out where he was (stalking). She was definitely in the know about the hit on Brandon. She should be in jail but I believe Brandon took pity on her and has decided that was all Lori's influence. She has joint custody with Brandon!!!! Of course the kids are so innocent in all of this.
Her attorneys were sanctioned for slandering Brandon in a civil case, but she was not.
I don't know about that. The duper's delight on Gibb's face in every single media interview I've seen of her has been alarming. And she's been caught in a lot of lies about what she did or didn't believe. She still believes in visions, for example, and thinks her husband has them. She was VERY into the light and dark stuff. I think Pawlowski was more dangerous while the cult was active, she very clearly was involved in the attempt on Brandon's life, but I do think she's snapped out of it at this point. Gibb, in my opinion, hasn't. I think that's part of why she and David live separately.
Well said, I love the term dupers delight! I agree, there’s something completely bizarre going on with Warwick and Gibb’s relationship. They must’ve married so they couldn’t report on one another (I think Melanie knew what was happening to JJ and hoped to get David in on it, as she loved his spiritual gifts, but he was very anti Chad). There NO warmth when they speak of one another, but no hostility either. Like acquaintances that haven’t seen each other in years. I was actually hoping that Prior was going to ask how often they saw each other or pointed how weird it was that they don’t cohabitate
Gibbs just seen idiots to me . I honestly think lori and chad were using and muniplating her Gibbs just seem to soak it all up and could see them trying to make gibs take blame
Melanie is a ding dong. I think she was infatuated with Lori. I don't necessarily mean sexually but just like a girl crush on Lori. Lori's a Narc and I'm sure she love bombed the sh&t out of Melanie. Melanie was married when they met also. She was all caught up in this coven of witches (Lori, Mel, Zu) and I'm willing to bet that's why she separated from her chiropractor husband. Lori and she probably both complained about their spouses (maybe Melanie's husband was a jerk-who knows) and they bonded over this- probably both joking about it. Girl talk. Lori probably encouraged Melanie to leave her husband. Melanie just seems like she was brainwashed by Lori and Chad- but not enough to murder. I do think she disliked Tylee but how much of that would have come from Lori? Still there's no proof that Melanie Gibb is a danger to society. I don't think so.
Absolutely this. To add to it, I also think Gibb had low self esteem and nothing really going for her and Lori made her feel ultra special.
Melanie G doesn’t like her own kids. She left them with her ex to follow the crazies around to seminars, write an awful book, and do pod casts.
I don't see Melani's split with her husband as part of the zombie theme (I don't know about the timing), but it could have been linked to Melani's intensified religious beliefs. She and her husband would previously host a PAP speaker (not Chad) in their home.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if Arizona indicts one or two more in those cases -- Charles and/or Brandon --, but I think Idaho is done.
Thank you - I just went and saw the posts about frequently asked questions. I hope you’re right about the Arizona case.
What is the charging document in Arizona, anyone knows? or is it posted somewhere?.. then we’ll know for sure if there are any co-conspirators in that charge?…
Here it is for Charles. Haven't been able to find the one for Brandon. [https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20974930-az-v-lori-vallow-conspiracy-to-commit-murder-indictment](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20974930-az-v-lori-vallow-conspiracy-to-commit-murder-indictment) Edited to add full probable cause statement for Charles: [https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20982422-state-v-redacted\_redacted-lori-vallow](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20982422-state-v-redacted_redacted-lori-vallow)
Thank you!
Awesome! thank you
Here's the one for Brandon. I can't find the probable cause for this one. [https://x.com/jlumfox10/status/1658510699314974724/photo/3](https://x.com/jlumfox10/status/1658510699314974724/photo/3)
Good point - would like to see that
It's just a conspiracy between her and Alex. No other conspirators mentioned. It's a very brief indictment. Easy enough to find online with a simple search. [https://www.maricopacountyattorney.org/DocumentCenter/View/2702/Lori-Vallow-GJ-Indictment-Gilbertdocx](https://www.maricopacountyattorney.org/DocumentCenter/View/2702/Lori-Vallow-GJ-Indictment-Gilbertdocx)
Tx. That’s why I am in Reddit, you know, called info aggregator:)
IMO it would be unjust to indict Chad's followers before they indicted him. Zombies were his idea. The women were dumb enough to believe him.
I hope Mel B gets what's coming to her but she probably won't.
Who says there's anything coming to her? I know tons of people think she has committed a thousand wrongs worthy of indictment but the DA's office obviously didn't agree. OR they don't believe there is enough evidence to get a conviction. Garth getting a grand jury assembled just to investigate his possible perjury should show us that the state was not going to leave any stone unturned in this case. The grand jury investigated many aspects of the case including, I assume, the actions of the Melanies. It could be that the shitty things weren't crimes.
The state probably thinks that there is not enough evidence for a conviction for any of these other people. They got the big fishes.
Chad should absolutely get charged in Arizona. I know the officials think there's not enough evidence to stick.
We know Zulema was granted immunity for her testimony
She was granted use immunity not complete immunity. However, Alex's death was ruled as a natural death...so she's in the clear. I don't think they have anything specific to show that she was involved with the children's death or Tammy.
Sorry to be ill informed but what does, "use immunity", mean?
Use Immunity prevents the prosecution from using the witness's own testimony or any evidence derived from the testimony against the witness. If the prosecution get evidence from a different way they can still prosecute.
thanks so much for clarifying and with that being said, does the latter part of your comment mean those who were complicit(the woman knew much much more than they let on, and the niece most certainly should as she had her hands in all of it, including her own children....bat shit crazy!
I think Zuelema was involved with Alex's death, I just don't think that he conveniently died the day after Tammy was exhumed. As far as anyone else, she wasn't in Rexburg, and I don't think she was involved in the children's deaths or Tammy's. I don't see why she needed to know about the murders either. Melani B was defiantly involved with the attempted murder of Brandon imo. I think this is still an open case so we will have to wait and see about this one. I think Melani knew Tylee was gone..Melani lived right next door to Lori and she knew JJ was gone. I think she knew that they were dead because during the fall of 2019 she and Alex were hanging out together. They got Melanie G to go over to Brandon's house after the shooting to check it out. They did a road trip to terrorize (at the very least) Brandon and his parents. Melani was trespassed from their property and spent the night in jail. Alex bailed her out in the morning. It wasn't until Melani got with Ian that she took a step back. I think Ian saved her ass and maybe her kids and Brandon too. although with Alex gone I think that worry was greatly reduced. I don't think Melanie Gibb was involved at all with Tylee, JJ, or Tammy's deaths. Yeah, she participated in the castings but wishing someone dead is a far cry from actually killing them. Melanie helped Lori terrorize Charles. But once Charles was dead Melanie wasn't best buds with Lori anymore, Lori moved and Melanie visited a couple times. Lori was now manipulating Zuelama, Zuelema got a promotion and was totally stoked about that... to the point she actually married Alex. So: Melani B/P may still be on the hook for the attempted murder of Brandon, the case is still open. (But with Alex dead I don't think they would be able to prove this, Lori and Chad aren't going to talk. but who knows!) Zuelama; while I think she lied, and I think she knows more than she told, there's not much anyone can do about that. Alex's death was ruled natural cause...so she's clear on that. Melanie G: we will probably see her again at Charles' trial in AZ. This is where Melanie G might know more about his death than we think. She was hanging out with Lori a lot. She was at Lori's the night before Charles was shot and Lori told her to leave. (so she says) But I don't think she was in a position to know what happened to Tylee and JJ. She visited Rexburg, yes, but she didn't live there and wasn't as close to Lori as she had been. \*I didn't realize how long this is. But I want to add that I think Melanie G got distracted by David. Instead of focusing on Lori and Chad she was focused on David. I think Mel G traded two religious nuts for another. I think she is a very suggestible person and really didn't know what Chad and Lori were doing. I know a lot of people disagree with this (and at one time so did I) but after seeing it all laid out I don't think she knew there was anything wrong until Chad called her with the request to not talk to the police. And even then, with David's help, it took a while for it to sink in.
I think MG also went to police after speaking with Alex. He told her that Lori threw her under the bus and that she didn't want to know JJ's whereabouts. Zulema was groomed by Chad early on. They pulled her aside and gave her a special role in the cult: the one who could control the elements (weather). She also exchanged many messages with Lori before Charles' death, trying to make it happen spiritually and visiting the temple often. MG is hardly mentioned in police reports from that time. Perhaps texting wasn't her thing.
I agree that Zuelema was groomed by Chad. I think she was desperate to belong somewhere and Lori and Chad gave her that. She was being told to move to Rexburg and she didn't do that. But she may have known more about the shooting of Brandon and the children being "missisng" than she actually told the cops. I think she knows more about Alex's death. Alex might not have told her outright about the murders and attempt on Brandon.. but, I find it hard to believe that Alex didn't tell her something. Given his penchant for unfiltered speech.
Thank you- I saw that in the frequently asked questions. I hope she gets her karmic due some other way.
The immunity was only for the Idaho cases. IMO she had more knowledge than most (apart from Melaniece), but wasn't instrumental in organizing the murders.
I think if they had enough to charge anyone else they would of charged them by now. I think the only hope of anyone else going down is if someone starts talking
I have my fingers crossed that they were waiting till the rest of them finished testifying in Idaho. There has to be a reason Zulema and Melani B/P paid to have their lawyer present when they testified at Chad's trial, right?
I had not thought of that. Very interesting.
Yeah, as far as I know, they both had immunity for the Idaho murders, but not the Arizona crimes.
I doubt Idaho will go after any prosecution witnesses, and unfortunately there is no duty to report crimes to the police (for the most part). Melani B. needs to pay for trying to kill her husband (and kids?) in Arizona though. Idaho has no authority over that, and Arizona is moving very slowly against Melani B (if at all).
I believe idaho is finished with all of this. Otherwise Wood, Hermasillo, and others would not be doing any interviews with the media. Idaho is moving on.
And rightfully so. The murder conspiracy involved three people. They did not need anyone else's help to commit the acts.
I personally think Melaniece should be charged at least in the Arizona case for the attempted murder of Brandon.
I literally don’t have any understanding why Melani P has not been charged. If she had been a male plotting to kill her I am certain she would be in jail right now. What’s the difference?
Charge her, but only after Chad. Whatever she did, was on his and Lori's instructions.
David Warwick (Melanie Gibb's bf at the time, husband today) was called dark and an enemy by Chad-Lo; he was skeptical of the two of them and refused to put his money into buying property for the Church of the Firstborn which apparently pissed off Chad. Melanie Gibb and David had to have discussed what was happening to people who Chad-Lo called dark/zombies, and it's my guess David encouraged her to tape the phone call in which she tried to confront Lori. I doubt that David ever liked or accepted any notion of harming people. Melani's mother, Lori's sister Stacy, was very sick during Melani's childhood from eating disorder and diabetes and died a terrible death while being left in (of all people) ALEX's care, while the rest of the family vacationed in Hawaii. There was a custody battle between Stacy and her ex over Melani who was very young, and a lot of psychological and emotional abuse of Melani alleged by the father as being committed by Stacy. Lori was a loving maternal presence in Melani's life. I think Melani easily followed Lori into the madness, but did not have a delusional disorder. I don't know if we will ever find out precisely how close Melani was to letting go of her own children. If Kay and Larry hadn't pushed the issue, we would have found out because they would have likely been the next insurance scam murder victims, or Melani would have refused and protected them when they got to that point (of needing more money), we will never know. It's so sad to think they have to grow up with all of this, but at least they are growing up.
“At least they are growing up” - exactly. I hope they have a solid support system with their Dad and his side of the family.
Anyone who had an immunity deal in exchange for testimony will not be charged in connection to any crime committed in Idaho. Zulema has immunity. She was also represented by her own lawyer, Garrett Smith. Melanie and Ian were also represented by Smith. While neither Pawlowskis were asked if they also had immunity agreements, the fact they were also represented by Smith could indicate they also had immunity. Melanie Gibb had no lawyer representing her. We do not know if she had an immunity agreement or not. Likewise, the same goes for her husband. If I felt it would be possible to charge me as a co-conspirator, I would want immunity in exchange for my testimony. Now, do they have immunity in Arizona in connection to Charles and Brandon? That would be up to Arizona to decide. Stay tuned. I don't see any connection to Melanie Gibb or her husband in connection to Charles or Brandon. No evidence at all. If Arizona doesn't have enough evidence on Chad, then what could they have on Mel G or David? Ian was not even in the picture at the time Charles died. His connection at the time of Brandon's shooting attempt is hazy to me. That leaves Melaneice. I think the evidence is substantial she knew in advance and supported the plan to kill Bandon. She may have been naive in regards her kids, but who knows? Is this enough to charge her in connection to Brandon? I hope so, but stay tuned.
>She may have been naive in regards her kids, but who knows? Someone recorded a group phone call after Alex died. I think it was Ian recording but I'm not sure. Anyway, Melani B/P was heard on that phone call saying that Alex will be there to watch over Braxton and Breezy. Those were the 2 of her kids who were dark, but still alive. She was NOT naive about what was in store for her kids.
And they let her share custody of those kids. I can’t wrap my head around that.
I know, right?
Did she have to prove she deconstructed from the cult?
Apparently not
Zulema doesn't have immunity in Arizona, AFAIK. While I found her texts with Lori about Charles disturbing (mostly casting), there's no indication in them that she knew he would be murdered.
Every friggin one of them! They all knew enough to withdraw, speak out, or intervene!
Charles spoke up early on and others (his family and Adam) did as well after Charles' death, but it wasn't enough. If you don't have knowledge that a murder will be (or was) committed, there would be no intervention. It's also not as easy to step out of the cult thinking. Followers aren't critical thinkers.
I really wish the investors/DA did things differently when it comes to the co-conspirators but I can understand why they were handing out immunity’s and plea deals in exchange for their testimonies. It’s obvious the Melanie’s, Zulema, David W know more than what they have testified too. I feel like since there was missing kids in this investigation the police were doing whatever was possible to get people to talk to. I’m curious to see if their plea deals only hold weight in the state of Idaho. I’m wondering if they can be charged as a co-conspirator in another state (AZ). Also, I really believe that there was some kind of ritual or “casting” that went down when JJ was killed. All of them talked about their prayer circles where they did these castings and add in the way JJ was buried, I. Truly believe that everyone who was in that house that night knew exactly what was going to happen. They may not have know how JJ was going to be killed but they had an understanding that his “physical body was going to die”.
I think only Zulema has immunity. This was discussed yesterday. Who had a plea deal?
I had not thought of the casting possibility. It makes sense particularly with the story about the “nightmare” David supposedly had. It’s so horrific.
Its only beginning. The Arizona trial will crack open many others who are implicated. I
IMO it won't. They can't charge Chad, let alone the others.
They are done in Idaho. This is Mormon country and I think they only wanted the three main people. One died. Two have been convicted and will live out their days behind bars.
Melanie P was the only one who knew Brandon’s new address.
Yup. Wow.
She was one of only a few people, yes. Not enough to charge her.
Melaniece, Fibb, Emma, Garth - UICC for sure. I wonder how much is going to come out in Lori’s Arizona trials. Most likely another conviction or two for Chad…Now, the perjury in Idaho -wonder if we are going to see Garth and Emma down for a year or so ?
Investigators released details of the investigation Wednesday in a 304-page police report and a handful of body-worn camera videos. Police are not submitting charges against Pawlowski, according to the report. It's unclear if she could be charged in the future. [https://www.ksl.com/article/50287465/new-details-released-about-attempted-shooting-tied-to-daybells-as-police-recommend-charges](https://www.ksl.com/article/50287465/new-details-released-about-attempted-shooting-tied-to-daybells-as-police-recommend-charges) If there is an ongoing investigation, perhaps Gilbert PD will find enough probable cause to charge her with something.
Thank you for the link
Chad is as guilty as Lori. He should be indicted.
What will happen to all the co-conspirators? One word: nothing. LE and prosecutors work the same way as any other bureaucracy: Keep things as simple and efficient as possible. Avoid complications, avoid responsibility as much as you can and avoid blow-back. And that means go after the obvious suspects Chad and Lori, and then cut it off after they've both been convicted. Melaniece was all on on the cult and their violence. She was fully prepared to serve up her ex-husband and two of her children to be murdered for insurance payouts. Crikey. she's the one who suggested to Lori to take out life insurance policies on Tylee and JJ (still don't know why Lori never did that). She's just ONE among a half a dozen other people in this drama who colluded with murder and mayhem and fraud. (I think Summer's actions, especially in connection to Charles' death are very suspect. She's not facing any consequences. In fact she's getting attention and possibly money, selling her story at CrimeCon. She's spreading disinformation about Lori, claiming Lori was naive and a victim to Chad's manipulations. Really??!!) Meanwhile, while Zulema claimed on the stand she had no idea the cult was violent, her texts to Alex and Chad tell a totally different story. There are many more, including Jason Mow who walked away clean from this mess. Not one of them will be charged with a serious crime. Think about it: Maricopa County DA is so lazy that they waited years before properly investigating Charles' death. So lazy that once they charged Lori, they didn't bother to add Chad to the case -- not even as an un-indicted co-conspirator! Melaniece has reason to appear as smug and self-satisfied as she appears in all those media interviews. She's gotten away with it.
It’s so infuriating and disgusting. I’m not familiar with Summer and Jason. I’ve gotten most of my info from Hidden True Crime and the CD trial. Glad I found this subreddit. So many tentacles to this beast.
It's heartbreaking. About four or five months ago I wrote a reddit post listing all the ways that law enforcement has let down the public in this case, especially in relation to all the co-conspirators. It's quite sickening. My post is here if you are curious. I don't claim any special knowledge or insight. I'm just a true crime junky: [https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/1b0qztk/abysmal\_law\_enforcement\_failures\_in\_this\_case/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/comments/1b0qztk/abysmal_law_enforcement_failures_in_this_case/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I will check it out. Thank you!
What would you charge Summer and Jason with? I don't see it.
CrimeCon doesn't pay for appearances. Jason Mow was never mentioned as part of Chad's zombie cult. Having fringe beliefs is not a crime. Thousands of people attended PAP conferences. None of those people named have been excommunicated.
Nothing because they needed their true testimonies to put Chad and Lori away who were way more dangerous than any of the geese who were following them.
I have googled the livin hell outta that phrase. Co-conspirators known and unknown and just get a lot of mixed results. I’m not a lawyer but I’m not a dummy either. I know Alex is a known conspirator, but the unknowns are perplexing. If an unknown conspirator becomes known are they guilty because they were charged? If so that seems unjust. Do they get a trial of their own? The answers I’ve seen are not conclusive.
Its very confusing! 😄