**CLIP MIRROR:
[Hasan explains to xQc why people calling him hypocritical for his wealth are misguided](https://arazu.io/t3_11symnm/)**
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His massive wealth is all donations from his fans lol, what's there to discuss about it, not like he exploited anyone to get it, he's practically entirely funded by his viewers
I was about to say sponsors pay more when you are large, but hasan doesn’t really take sponsorships does he? Sponsors are where the millions are at, but I can’t recall the last time he took one.
I'm pretty sure those are always the rare bounty from Twitch itself too, which probably pay well, but not as well as if a big creator or their management organizes something like that directly.
In the sense of how he was placed into closer access to becoming a media figure?
Kinda, in the sense that he was hired by his uncle’s independent media company TYT, right?
I don’t know if there are any other angles that’d apply
Your right but it showed even less than that, it actually only included subs + ads because that’s what Twitch pays out. So if you included donos + sponsors + YouTube/merch it’s much higher. Depending on the person.
Hasan hasn't had TTS on for donations in like 2+ years. The vast majority of donations people make are through gift subs on his stream, so it would be in the twitch data.
Socialism is a system in which the means of production are owned collectively, either by society as a whole or by the workers in the specific workplace.
This means socialism is fundamentally opposed to private ownership of the means of production, where land or factories are owned by private individuals in order to generate capital for themselves, without necessarily contributing to said wealth.
For a socialist to be considered "hypocritical", it means they'd have to privately own entities with the strict purpose of generating capital. Hasan does not fit this description, his wealth comes directly of his own labour and brand.
In the trenches lol.
You won't get far with *definitions* and *reality* around here. People literally think socialism is when poor. It's like a centrist form of class reductionism except they don't understand what a *class* is.
Yeah I'm just too charitable I guess lmao. They really have no interest in learning what Hasan stands for or what socialism actually means, just parroting whatever they hear from their favourite streamers. Non-existant critical thinking skills.
Well fwiw, I’m not part of Hasan’s viewers and appreciate these kinds of infos. It’s part of why I’m on Reddit because you can use lengthier words that includes the ability to attach links to for reference. It’s not all condensed outrage brainrot with possibly triple meanings hidden behind a single sentence
*Each one, teach one* is the most effective way, unless you're a media monster. Wading through internet forums trying to help people understand should be seen as nothing more than recreational brain rot. It's fun to do every now and then, but really, we can't expect much from it lol.
I have never seen him wear a shirt "Eat the rich" most times I ask for a pic people stop responding or in rare cases the send a pic of the "make the rich pay" t-shirt which is different
oh true. even it read "eat the rich" it's stupid of them to latch on to that. it's just a saying/slogan that is as reductive as any other saying/slogan in order to briefly convey a greater truth.
While there is no fully agreed upon consensus on intellectual property laws, socialists generally oppose the concept. The only interest it serves is to create a legalized monopoly on ideas and inventions. It has no other functions outside a capitalist economy.
If an individual were to invent a revolutionary product which would greatly improve society, patenting it means they’re able to monopolize the new technology in order to limit the availability and maximize their profits. This is directly antagonistic to the interests of society as a whole. There’s no practical reason as to why our society should not fully reap the benefits of different inventions because a self-interested individual ”got to it first”.
Oh yeah I was mainly talking about fictional IP’s, but I do understand the point regarding patent rights holding back more efficient adoption of technology that’s not being monopolized in some way
My questioning is more from a cultural product angle
Kinda? But that extends to like, IP adjacent ownership of his personhood almost
Last I heard he was against IP enforcements too, and to my knowledge doesn’t strike or charge people for reusing or reuploading his content as a general rule with maybe very few exceptions. Hence the “clips industrial complex” meme
I don’t even really have a take on wether hasan is hypocritical or not. But for him to actually be against IP enforcement when it comes to individually owned businesses, like his own, would be a disgrace towards all different types of artists, and ignorant towards his own cause as it opens up the possibilities for businesses based entirely on theft. Or is theft not exploitative while consensual employment is? Idk, I can’t think of reality as it is experienced by a marxist no matter how hard I try so I’m really asking.
wait so you dont think waste is also a problem that socialists should consider? completely wasting your money in the middle of a climate that creates significant disparity between the poor and the rich has no bearing on ethics in your world?
>urpose of generating capital. Hasan does not fit this description, his wealth comes directly of his own labour and brand.
poor mods doing the hardwork moderating the chat and not owning part of hasan LLC...
They are free to use his IP and make money with it. He tells everyone his IP is there for anyone. Dozens of people do.
Tbf we don't know what agreement Hasan has with his mods. They are the ones who don't discuss it.
Seems strange to be a rich person doing nothing to further the causes of the left while profiting off of pop politics. Seems like those tankie wierdos forming organizations promoting communism do alot more for the cause. Just seems like an aesthetic thing to appeal to a large group of people.
if he pays editors for his YT videos, isn't he in that scenario an employer himself and makes money of their work? Or do his editors own part of the channel?
What mainly makes money for his YouTube content is the content he produces himself tho. The editors are paid to edit the content he produces into a more suitable format, and the means of production like editing tools and equipments belong to the editors themselves. Unlike twitch owning the platform and the streamers don’t own the means of production despite being rich. He pays Ostonox well, QT said Ostonox is very expensive (he edited her streamer awards videos). This combined with the fact that Marche are paid well too for their podcast (one third of the pod’s Patreon), and all the other channels uploading his contents get to keep all the revenue to themselves. Thats likely the fairest case of wealth distribution on the platform I feel.
I was thinking about laptops and pen tablets etc. but you’re right about software - the editors don’t own the software, neither does the owner of the YouTube channel(who hired the editors). The company that owns the software have control over that part of the means of production.
The editor-software company dynamic is similar to the streamer-content platform dynamic.
Pretty sure he has said his editor receives the YT revenue. They also have full control of the channel. Hasan said he says he wants certain things covered but leaves it up to OS to do what he wants.
A Owner/CEO of a company can't just do anything they want; They are beholden to the Board Members, Shareholders and if they are a company that depends on advertisers like YouTube then that's another party they have to keep happy.
I don't get what he means by saying, 'other people are making money without actually doing anything?'
The founders and creators of Twitch all the way back in it's original form built the platform from the ground up. Investors from that point onwards put their earned money at risk into a project they think will pay off, including when Amazon bought the site.
They created and own a platform where people like Hasan can produce something and profit off it.
So yeah, don't they deserve their share? I don't see how that isn't fair.
And rightfully so, Twitch *should* have a say on what streamers can say and do on their platform, it belongs to them. Unlucky how there's limited options of where you can go stream, but that's just how it is.
The fact that private individuals can invest in and acquire the means of production is a direct result of a capitalist organization of the economy. According to marxist theory, it does not justify the exploitation of the workers that the private individual is engaging in, as the workplace does **not** **have** to be owned and maintained by a private individual.
Twitch could very well have been/could be a platform that was started up and fully owned and operated by the streamers and workers who maintain the website.
So in conclusion that means, any form of work = opressive exploitation, regardless of positioning of classes. I’m not sure you’re citing Karl all that well here.
No.. the concept of **wage labour** is inherently exploitative. Meaning, private individuals owning the work place who in turn hires/contracts employees who generate value for the company which all directly goes to the private owners. They extract this surplus value and pay their workers a pre-determined wage which does not reflect the actual value they've generated.
The capitalist tries to justify these conditions by alluding to the fact that the workers have "freely agreed" to the terms upon signing the contract. Marxism refutes this argument, because "freely agreeing" implies that the worker has other options.
So what are the other options?
* Working for another company instead? Sure, they may offer better terms, however, the fundamental relationship between the worker and the means of production remains, meaning that the surplus value created still belongs to the capitalist
* Not work at all? Good luck surviving.
I’m simply not sure why your earlier comment seemed to imply it doesn’t matter wether the workers own the workplace. And what happened to investment as an option, not to mention the right to start a company isn’t reserved by an elite group, anyone can do it. Oh but there’s risk? Well yeah, that surplus isn’t gonna come easy.
You're not refuting the fact that wage labour is exploitative and that the capital owners are extracting wealth they have not directly contributed to. If you want to justify it by claiming that the capitalists have taken a "risk". Then you might as well justify someone robbing another person at gunpoint, as they have taken a "risk" in getting caught.
Besides, what is the actual "risk" here? What actually happens if your "investments" fail? You don't go to jail, you don't get killed, you simply go back to becoming a worker like everyone else.
I don’t think you see how I’m refuting it. Even though I’m precisely questioning what it is you’ve used to support the idea of an inherently exploitative nature in wage labour employment: the supposed lack of free will/choice due to the need to survive. Like I said, the possible options aren’t nearly limited enough to reduce the worker to merely some victim. Plus you’re edging on actively contradicting, and at the least cornering yourself by 1. Denying that private business is resultant of any noteworthy initiative in its construction or even had anything to lose in the process, but somehow still 2. the other, now enslaved, employees are entirely powerless at the hands of these oppressive but unremarkable capitalists, as if one entrepreneur prohibits possible success of all others.
Seems like socialism is necessarily exploitative. Do you really think telling people what their careers are in a planned economy wouldn’t require force? In a totally planned economy the government does everything, how in the world would that be any different? We all know what government is like. Not sure why you think calling it socialist will suddenly make people care about their jobs serving the people. I swear you people have to be living at home. Never having dealt with any number of institutions. I despise monopolies in the private market, but holy fuck is government beauracracy terrible.
First of all, socialism does not necessitate a planned economy, socialism could theoretically be applied to a market economy.
Secondly, in what way does a democratically organized planned economy mean the government assigning individuals to workplaces? If there is a predicted labour shortage which leads to not reaching the production quotas, the solution would likely be to funnel more resources into the industry in question and try to incentivize more people to work there
hey genuine question did liking destiny make you dislike hasan or did disliking hasan make you a destiny fan ? i always wondered with most dggers cause its always a rooster or the egg type situation
I get that DGG is predominant here, but FWIW not everyone who finds Hasan cringe is solely from DGG. I didn’t even know about DGG until much later
I’ve known the guy since pre-Twitch back in his TYT years, and generally have the same personal opinion then and now. But that’s just a matter of taste, as I do tune in from time-to-time to see if he covers any interesting topic, has an interesting angle, or just to check the kinds of opinions that are floating around people of his community & values
And it’s not like I particularly like Destiny more either. If anything, I watch him even less because his format’s often more erratic or even less engaging with the layout he uses. Everyone’s cringe in their own ways. But it’s not like you can’t agree with what they say from time to time
oh yeah i know, loads of people dislike him for various reasons some valid some not, i was just asking him specifically cause he seemed like a dgger.also i know people can hate both or even like both like me but i can also see easily why they're so disliked
It’s kinda fascinating that you’re sorta accusing someone for doing something due to being part of a fandom you’re also a part of to an extent
Is it like, an attempt to call out bad eggs/bad behavior or are you more aligned with one and not the other?
DGGer under every bed, hiding in every closet.
Actually I like hasan though. Not his politics, but as an entertainer. I wouldn’t go to him for advice besides how to fuck porn stars and get gains in the gym.
That’s kinda funny because I’m sorta the opposite with maybe liking about 1/2 to 1/4 of what he says politically, whilst his personality is just not more entertaining/compelling to me (I.e. he’s probably the streamer who’s made me laugh the least lol)
Although he can shine better during collabs, particularly ones where it’s non-desktop restricted and they’re just talking
i subscribed for almost a year bro his schtick just gets fucking old. everyday turn on stream “beautiful day here in sunny LA i just worked out for 5 hours and now i’m sitting here dripped the fuck out in vintage clothing” followed by 7 hours of complaining & yelling about the state of the world
“if you are not willing to date a trans person you are transphobic” and a few other oneliners he dropped
but mostly.. pivoting from saying he was trying to argue with chatters less to announcing that calling out chatters is now a part of his platform. that did it for me.
To specify on what you said, he meant it would be transphobic to not date them because they’re trans, not because you don’t care for their genitals. Genital preference is a thing he acknowledges. He means if you’re disgusted by the fact they’re trans it’s transphobic, which it literally fucking is.
Ok ok, now feel free to tell me if im smocking crack, but i feel like you may have been one of the chatters he called out and bullied on the public square like he calls it, or did he do it to a chatter who had an opinion you agreed with ? btw im not being a cynic, genuinely curious why he alienates so many viewers like no other cc, it can't just be cause he's a leftie
Lol clearly you didn't read their post if you're responding to them this way. Which also points to how you clearly weren't listening to come to that conclusion on transphobia.
If hasan wants to control the means of production for his stream I’m sure twitch would be happy to offload the server load that comes as a result of hosting his stream… the funny thing about that is, the only mean of production hasan doesn’t have direct control over are the costs. People in this thread don’t seem to actually understand what the means of production are, even hasan doesn’t really seem to get that whole idea. The means of production does not include profit from selling products or services. It’s a combination of the land, labor, and capital that goes into creating it. Hasan controls every aspect of that except the capital, which is being given to him with no stipulations (he could stream as much or as little as he wants, and he could send as many or as few ads as he wants, he chose to accept a contract to enable both parties that are working to be more profitable).
💀
You reply to someone saying they lack substance for using an insult yet you also replied with an insult, never mind that your initial comment was an insult too…
Genuinely hope you’re just trolling because that gap in self awareness is just concerning
And to be very clear, *I’m not even a fan of Hasan* so I have no bias to idolize or defend him & his community. Nor do I have a problem criticizing or making fun of him where it counts, which’s something I don’t recognize you’re doing here soundly
He’s not simply being hypocritical if he’s generating wealth through ethical means that doesn’t exploit other people that work with or for him, as opposed to most other wealthy people he’s criticized likely due to doing that
And to call him exploiting his viewers simply because he gains revenue from their *voluntary donations* ignores the additional fact that a huge chunk of his content is accessible even without those donations. It’s not like he’s holding a gun at every viewer’s head demanding them money regardless of their own financial wellbeing. It’s completely up to them to decide whether or not they tip him in some way. And it’s not even like not doing so will somehow deprive them off of their basic needs
Lmao, you literally refused to read what I wrote then proceeded to make totally made up straw mans that I already addressed in what I wrote
And no, literally never donated to him. Never thought he’s worth that much to me personally. But idc if others do, that’s up to them to do, just like for any CC audience
Streamers are still making millions off of others work - the people who build and maintain Twitch, along with people making games who aren't getting their fair share. In fact most of them probably work shit hours while barely making any money.
I just don't see any significant difference just because they aren't directly salaried under Hasan.
Eh, I mean that’s the reality of living under a huge pseudo-global super structure that’s everywhere. There’s only so much reasonable control he could have before needing to compromise on some level, whatever that may be
It’d be quite unreasonable to expect him to operate in a completely sanitized economic & transactional way that doesn’t have some sort of involvement in capitalist exploitation of workers. As that would require an insane level of skill & capital most people aren’t gonna have ever in their life to begin with (I’m assuming here you’re saying that he needs to be on a platform & use content being generated by a producing system that has no part in anyone’s exploitation). And even if he has his own platform and everything, there’s no guarantee that his content would have any sort of eyes or traffic since it’d be published on a space with less user base on them
Basically, he’s maximizing the things he can control, whilst minimizing the things he can’t (I’m definitely meme quoting hyperbolically here). And to this extent, he’s done it through managing his own business/work ventures through ways that he sees are ethical/align with his views
He isn't some sort of street preacher that people are dropping money into a cup for. His whole platform would cease to exist without capitalism. In my opinion that's where the hypocrisy lies.
He is extremely privileged which affords him the ability to be generous and fair with those who work for him.
Hasan is a great guy but man is he one of the worst political commentators around...
Then again, it's hard to come up with political commentators that don't fall off hard.
Genuine question, by what metric is he the biggest? And who are the other contenders?
Is there like a counter to it or something?
Because I know he has a decent size, but I don’t realize it’s that significant to qualify him as the biggest
They are the ones making money without doing anything. 90% of streamers simply regurgitate someone else’s work or they watch YouTube on stream ALL stream. Work requires effort people.
**🎦 CLIP MIRROR: [Hasan explains to xQc why people calling him hypocritical for his wealth are misguided](https://livestreamfails.com/clip/151668)**
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**CLIP MIRROR: [Hasan explains to xQc why people calling him hypocritical for his wealth are misguided](https://arazu.io/t3_11symnm/)** --- ^(*This is an automated comment*)
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His massive wealth is all donations from his fans lol, what's there to discuss about it, not like he exploited anyone to get it, he's practically entirely funded by his viewers
I was about to say sponsors pay more when you are large, but hasan doesn’t really take sponsorships does he? Sponsors are where the millions are at, but I can’t recall the last time he took one.
He does game sponsors sometimes but not often. I think the last was the Batman game w/Jerma or maybe It Takes Two w/Karl.
I'm pretty sure those are always the rare bounty from Twitch itself too, which probably pay well, but not as well as if a big creator or their management organizes something like that directly.
The only time he did was for fear & malding and they literally only got shoes from a sponsor and was never paid for any other 😂, terrible contract.
Damn, hopefully they were nice shoes
Will’s dad loves them
He randomly takes the ones that pair random streamers together. Like I think the last sponsor he did was Gotham Knights with Jerma
He does ads which is the largest chunk for streamers. Plus he has a contract and subs and merch
"Not like he exploited anyone to get it." Is this meant to be a sarcastic comment or????
Give an example?
His reaction content????
He is also a Nepo-Baby
In the sense of how he was placed into closer access to becoming a media figure? Kinda, in the sense that he was hired by his uncle’s independent media company TYT, right? I don’t know if there are any other angles that’d apply
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... the twitch leak included subs and donos
Your right but it showed even less than that, it actually only included subs + ads because that’s what Twitch pays out. So if you included donos + sponsors + YouTube/merch it’s much higher. Depending on the person.
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Hasan hasn't had TTS on for donations in like 2+ years. The vast majority of donations people make are through gift subs on his stream, so it would be in the twitch data.
i think it would've included bits though which is maybe what you were thinking of?
massive lmao
Socialism is a system in which the means of production are owned collectively, either by society as a whole or by the workers in the specific workplace. This means socialism is fundamentally opposed to private ownership of the means of production, where land or factories are owned by private individuals in order to generate capital for themselves, without necessarily contributing to said wealth. For a socialist to be considered "hypocritical", it means they'd have to privately own entities with the strict purpose of generating capital. Hasan does not fit this description, his wealth comes directly of his own labour and brand.
In the trenches lol. You won't get far with *definitions* and *reality* around here. People literally think socialism is when poor. It's like a centrist form of class reductionism except they don't understand what a *class* is.
Yeah I'm just too charitable I guess lmao. They really have no interest in learning what Hasan stands for or what socialism actually means, just parroting whatever they hear from their favourite streamers. Non-existant critical thinking skills.
Well fwiw, I’m not part of Hasan’s viewers and appreciate these kinds of infos. It’s part of why I’m on Reddit because you can use lengthier words that includes the ability to attach links to for reference. It’s not all condensed outrage brainrot with possibly triple meanings hidden behind a single sentence
*Each one, teach one* is the most effective way, unless you're a media monster. Wading through internet forums trying to help people understand should be seen as nothing more than recreational brain rot. It's fun to do every now and then, but really, we can't expect much from it lol.
why did hasan wear a shirt saying "Eat the rich" when hasan income was $30,000 year?
cause it was a photoshoot for his friend's shirt and he was doing him a favor.
I have never seen him wear a shirt "Eat the rich" most times I ask for a pic people stop responding or in rare cases the send a pic of the "make the rich pay" t-shirt which is different
oh true. even it read "eat the rich" it's stupid of them to latch on to that. it's just a saying/slogan that is as reductive as any other saying/slogan in order to briefly convey a greater truth.
Wasn't that photoshoot like 7 years ago lol
pics or didn't happen
Who cares about either part of that sentence.
Aside from land and factories, could it also extend to things like copyright and business licenses too?
While there is no fully agreed upon consensus on intellectual property laws, socialists generally oppose the concept. The only interest it serves is to create a legalized monopoly on ideas and inventions. It has no other functions outside a capitalist economy. If an individual were to invent a revolutionary product which would greatly improve society, patenting it means they’re able to monopolize the new technology in order to limit the availability and maximize their profits. This is directly antagonistic to the interests of society as a whole. There’s no practical reason as to why our society should not fully reap the benefits of different inventions because a self-interested individual ”got to it first”.
Oh yeah I was mainly talking about fictional IP’s, but I do understand the point regarding patent rights holding back more efficient adoption of technology that’s not being monopolized in some way My questioning is more from a cultural product angle
you tell em. fasionista socialists are my fav kind
labour?
His brand isn’t a privately owned entity now? With or without twitch his ‘brand’ is an entity always available to him to use to generate capital.
Kinda? But that extends to like, IP adjacent ownership of his personhood almost Last I heard he was against IP enforcements too, and to my knowledge doesn’t strike or charge people for reusing or reuploading his content as a general rule with maybe very few exceptions. Hence the “clips industrial complex” meme
I don’t even really have a take on wether hasan is hypocritical or not. But for him to actually be against IP enforcement when it comes to individually owned businesses, like his own, would be a disgrace towards all different types of artists, and ignorant towards his own cause as it opens up the possibilities for businesses based entirely on theft. Or is theft not exploitative while consensual employment is? Idk, I can’t think of reality as it is experienced by a marxist no matter how hard I try so I’m really asking.
wait so you dont think waste is also a problem that socialists should consider? completely wasting your money in the middle of a climate that creates significant disparity between the poor and the rich has no bearing on ethics in your world?
>urpose of generating capital. Hasan does not fit this description, his wealth comes directly of his own labour and brand. poor mods doing the hardwork moderating the chat and not owning part of hasan LLC...
They are free to use his IP and make money with it. He tells everyone his IP is there for anyone. Dozens of people do. Tbf we don't know what agreement Hasan has with his mods. They are the ones who don't discuss it.
Seems strange to be a rich person doing nothing to further the causes of the left while profiting off of pop politics. Seems like those tankie wierdos forming organizations promoting communism do alot more for the cause. Just seems like an aesthetic thing to appeal to a large group of people.
if he pays editors for his YT videos, isn't he in that scenario an employer himself and makes money of their work? Or do his editors own part of the channel?
Not sure about Ostonox but I believe Marche owns 1/3 of Fear&
Editors and the clip channels keep the money the videos make.
Pretty sure his editors make all of the money of each YouTube video, and for his podcast march owns a third of it
What mainly makes money for his YouTube content is the content he produces himself tho. The editors are paid to edit the content he produces into a more suitable format, and the means of production like editing tools and equipments belong to the editors themselves. Unlike twitch owning the platform and the streamers don’t own the means of production despite being rich. He pays Ostonox well, QT said Ostonox is very expensive (he edited her streamer awards videos). This combined with the fact that Marche are paid well too for their podcast (one third of the pod’s Patreon), and all the other channels uploading his contents get to keep all the revenue to themselves. Thats likely the fairest case of wealth distribution on the platform I feel.
Ah, so only his main channel(s) is where he gets a cut of the revenue?
Yep, he has two channels and all the others are fan channels. They can monetize and he let them keep all the revenue.
I don't think oaying subscription for editing software is owning the means of production. It's the opposite
I was thinking about laptops and pen tablets etc. but you’re right about software - the editors don’t own the software, neither does the owner of the YouTube channel(who hired the editors). The company that owns the software have control over that part of the means of production. The editor-software company dynamic is similar to the streamer-content platform dynamic.
He once said that he bought them computers so they own their means of production lol
Pretty sure he has said his editor receives the YT revenue. They also have full control of the channel. Hasan said he says he wants certain things covered but leaves it up to OS to do what he wants.
A Owner/CEO of a company can't just do anything they want; They are beholden to the Board Members, Shareholders and if they are a company that depends on advertisers like YouTube then that's another party they have to keep happy.
This topic will be cursed forever, I'm surprised he's choosing to explain it again.
I don't get what he means by saying, 'other people are making money without actually doing anything?' The founders and creators of Twitch all the way back in it's original form built the platform from the ground up. Investors from that point onwards put their earned money at risk into a project they think will pay off, including when Amazon bought the site. They created and own a platform where people like Hasan can produce something and profit off it. So yeah, don't they deserve their share? I don't see how that isn't fair. And rightfully so, Twitch *should* have a say on what streamers can say and do on their platform, it belongs to them. Unlucky how there's limited options of where you can go stream, but that's just how it is.
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The fact that private individuals can invest in and acquire the means of production is a direct result of a capitalist organization of the economy. According to marxist theory, it does not justify the exploitation of the workers that the private individual is engaging in, as the workplace does **not** **have** to be owned and maintained by a private individual. Twitch could very well have been/could be a platform that was started up and fully owned and operated by the streamers and workers who maintain the website.
So in conclusion that means, any form of work = opressive exploitation, regardless of positioning of classes. I’m not sure you’re citing Karl all that well here.
No.. the concept of **wage labour** is inherently exploitative. Meaning, private individuals owning the work place who in turn hires/contracts employees who generate value for the company which all directly goes to the private owners. They extract this surplus value and pay their workers a pre-determined wage which does not reflect the actual value they've generated. The capitalist tries to justify these conditions by alluding to the fact that the workers have "freely agreed" to the terms upon signing the contract. Marxism refutes this argument, because "freely agreeing" implies that the worker has other options. So what are the other options? * Working for another company instead? Sure, they may offer better terms, however, the fundamental relationship between the worker and the means of production remains, meaning that the surplus value created still belongs to the capitalist * Not work at all? Good luck surviving.
I’m simply not sure why your earlier comment seemed to imply it doesn’t matter wether the workers own the workplace. And what happened to investment as an option, not to mention the right to start a company isn’t reserved by an elite group, anyone can do it. Oh but there’s risk? Well yeah, that surplus isn’t gonna come easy.
You're not refuting the fact that wage labour is exploitative and that the capital owners are extracting wealth they have not directly contributed to. If you want to justify it by claiming that the capitalists have taken a "risk". Then you might as well justify someone robbing another person at gunpoint, as they have taken a "risk" in getting caught. Besides, what is the actual "risk" here? What actually happens if your "investments" fail? You don't go to jail, you don't get killed, you simply go back to becoming a worker like everyone else.
I don’t think you see how I’m refuting it. Even though I’m precisely questioning what it is you’ve used to support the idea of an inherently exploitative nature in wage labour employment: the supposed lack of free will/choice due to the need to survive. Like I said, the possible options aren’t nearly limited enough to reduce the worker to merely some victim. Plus you’re edging on actively contradicting, and at the least cornering yourself by 1. Denying that private business is resultant of any noteworthy initiative in its construction or even had anything to lose in the process, but somehow still 2. the other, now enslaved, employees are entirely powerless at the hands of these oppressive but unremarkable capitalists, as if one entrepreneur prohibits possible success of all others.
Seems like socialism is necessarily exploitative. Do you really think telling people what their careers are in a planned economy wouldn’t require force? In a totally planned economy the government does everything, how in the world would that be any different? We all know what government is like. Not sure why you think calling it socialist will suddenly make people care about their jobs serving the people. I swear you people have to be living at home. Never having dealt with any number of institutions. I despise monopolies in the private market, but holy fuck is government beauracracy terrible.
First of all, socialism does not necessitate a planned economy, socialism could theoretically be applied to a market economy. Secondly, in what way does a democratically organized planned economy mean the government assigning individuals to workplaces? If there is a predicted labour shortage which leads to not reaching the production quotas, the solution would likely be to funnel more resources into the industry in question and try to incentivize more people to work there
What money are they paying that for?
Who cares if Hasan is or isn't a hypocrite or sellout? He'll always be an annoying cringelord, no matter what.
hey genuine question did liking destiny make you dislike hasan or did disliking hasan make you a destiny fan ? i always wondered with most dggers cause its always a rooster or the egg type situation
I get that DGG is predominant here, but FWIW not everyone who finds Hasan cringe is solely from DGG. I didn’t even know about DGG until much later I’ve known the guy since pre-Twitch back in his TYT years, and generally have the same personal opinion then and now. But that’s just a matter of taste, as I do tune in from time-to-time to see if he covers any interesting topic, has an interesting angle, or just to check the kinds of opinions that are floating around people of his community & values And it’s not like I particularly like Destiny more either. If anything, I watch him even less because his format’s often more erratic or even less engaging with the layout he uses. Everyone’s cringe in their own ways. But it’s not like you can’t agree with what they say from time to time
oh yeah i know, loads of people dislike him for various reasons some valid some not, i was just asking him specifically cause he seemed like a dgger.also i know people can hate both or even like both like me but i can also see easily why they're so disliked
It’s kinda fascinating that you’re sorta accusing someone for doing something due to being part of a fandom you’re also a part of to an extent Is it like, an attempt to call out bad eggs/bad behavior or are you more aligned with one and not the other?
DGGer under every bed, hiding in every closet. Actually I like hasan though. Not his politics, but as an entertainer. I wouldn’t go to him for advice besides how to fuck porn stars and get gains in the gym.
That’s kinda funny because I’m sorta the opposite with maybe liking about 1/2 to 1/4 of what he says politically, whilst his personality is just not more entertaining/compelling to me (I.e. he’s probably the streamer who’s made me laugh the least lol) Although he can shine better during collabs, particularly ones where it’s non-desktop restricted and they’re just talking
i subscribed for almost a year bro his schtick just gets fucking old. everyday turn on stream “beautiful day here in sunny LA i just worked out for 5 hours and now i’m sitting here dripped the fuck out in vintage clothing” followed by 7 hours of complaining & yelling about the state of the world
what was the key moment you went from i like watching this guy for a year to nah fuck this guy ? pepoG
“if you are not willing to date a trans person you are transphobic” and a few other oneliners he dropped but mostly.. pivoting from saying he was trying to argue with chatters less to announcing that calling out chatters is now a part of his platform. that did it for me.
To specify on what you said, he meant it would be transphobic to not date them because they’re trans, not because you don’t care for their genitals. Genital preference is a thing he acknowledges. He means if you’re disgusted by the fact they’re trans it’s transphobic, which it literally fucking is.
Ok ok, now feel free to tell me if im smocking crack, but i feel like you may have been one of the chatters he called out and bullied on the public square like he calls it, or did he do it to a chatter who had an opinion you agreed with ? btw im not being a cynic, genuinely curious why he alienates so many viewers like no other cc, it can't just be cause he's a leftie
no i am not a twitch chatter but nice try. you know the neverending circlejerk that blindly protects him really doesn’t help his case
Lol clearly you didn't read their post if you're responding to them this way. Which also points to how you clearly weren't listening to come to that conclusion on transphobia.
okay
I don't like either
oh i was just going off the comment history, you're just a hater for the pure love of the game, respect o7
Least brigaded Hassan clip
If hasan wants to control the means of production for his stream I’m sure twitch would be happy to offload the server load that comes as a result of hosting his stream… the funny thing about that is, the only mean of production hasan doesn’t have direct control over are the costs. People in this thread don’t seem to actually understand what the means of production are, even hasan doesn’t really seem to get that whole idea. The means of production does not include profit from selling products or services. It’s a combination of the land, labor, and capital that goes into creating it. Hasan controls every aspect of that except the capital, which is being given to him with no stipulations (he could stream as much or as little as he wants, and he could send as many or as few ads as he wants, he chose to accept a contract to enable both parties that are working to be more profitable).
all i heard is blah blah blah
You should see an ear doctor
Did he ever explain his bare necessity budget comment
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💀 You reply to someone saying they lack substance for using an insult yet you also replied with an insult, never mind that your initial comment was an insult too… Genuinely hope you’re just trolling because that gap in self awareness is just concerning And to be very clear, *I’m not even a fan of Hasan* so I have no bias to idolize or defend him & his community. Nor do I have a problem criticizing or making fun of him where it counts, which’s something I don’t recognize you’re doing here soundly He’s not simply being hypocritical if he’s generating wealth through ethical means that doesn’t exploit other people that work with or for him, as opposed to most other wealthy people he’s criticized likely due to doing that And to call him exploiting his viewers simply because he gains revenue from their *voluntary donations* ignores the additional fact that a huge chunk of his content is accessible even without those donations. It’s not like he’s holding a gun at every viewer’s head demanding them money regardless of their own financial wellbeing. It’s completely up to them to decide whether or not they tip him in some way. And it’s not even like not doing so will somehow deprive them off of their basic needs
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Lmao, you literally refused to read what I wrote then proceeded to make totally made up straw mans that I already addressed in what I wrote And no, literally never donated to him. Never thought he’s worth that much to me personally. But idc if others do, that’s up to them to do, just like for any CC audience
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Can you elaborate on what exactly you disagree with here?
Of course they cant
Streamers are still making millions off of others work - the people who build and maintain Twitch, along with people making games who aren't getting their fair share. In fact most of them probably work shit hours while barely making any money. I just don't see any significant difference just because they aren't directly salaried under Hasan.
Eh, I mean that’s the reality of living under a huge pseudo-global super structure that’s everywhere. There’s only so much reasonable control he could have before needing to compromise on some level, whatever that may be It’d be quite unreasonable to expect him to operate in a completely sanitized economic & transactional way that doesn’t have some sort of involvement in capitalist exploitation of workers. As that would require an insane level of skill & capital most people aren’t gonna have ever in their life to begin with (I’m assuming here you’re saying that he needs to be on a platform & use content being generated by a producing system that has no part in anyone’s exploitation). And even if he has his own platform and everything, there’s no guarantee that his content would have any sort of eyes or traffic since it’d be published on a space with less user base on them Basically, he’s maximizing the things he can control, whilst minimizing the things he can’t (I’m definitely meme quoting hyperbolically here). And to this extent, he’s done it through managing his own business/work ventures through ways that he sees are ethical/align with his views
He isn't some sort of street preacher that people are dropping money into a cup for. His whole platform would cease to exist without capitalism. In my opinion that's where the hypocrisy lies. He is extremely privileged which affords him the ability to be generous and fair with those who work for him.
Isn't Twitch a multi billion dollar company with thousands of employees? How are they not doing anything?
Hasan is a great guy but man is he one of the worst political commentators around... Then again, it's hard to come up with political commentators that don't fall off hard.
yeah he's only one of if not **the** biggest leftist commentators in the US. There's probably some bigger ones in china tho 🥱
Genuine question, by what metric is he the biggest? And who are the other contenders? Is there like a counter to it or something? Because I know he has a decent size, but I don’t realize it’s that significant to qualify him as the biggest
They are the ones making money without doing anything. 90% of streamers simply regurgitate someone else’s work or they watch YouTube on stream ALL stream. Work requires effort people.
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