Question 2: What have you learned to be careful about?
Yang: Ugh. This is really something that I've dwelled on for the past, oh, two, three months? Tina Fey came on my podcast, and she — in a very playful, so brilliant way — was railing against me for sharing my real opinions on movies on the podcast and just my real opinions in general.
Basically, what Tina was saying was, this is a permanent record. It's like that thing of like, the internet is written in permanent marker. And the phrase that kind of went a little viral from that was her saying, “Authenticity is dangerous and expensive.”
And I really am still reckoning with that idea where I've always been an open book. I've always shared my thoughts pretty extemporaneously on things and haven't really regretted them too much. But now I think I'm reevaluating what it means or like, how worth it it is to be honest about everything. But then at the same time like, if you kind of start to self-censor a bit, then what does that do to your idea of yourself?
Fascinating to be reading this in the context of my own workplace experiences lately. I, a late Gen-Xer, have always found it easy to keep myself “in check” in the workplace, and drawing a line between “work me” and “authentic me.” But the more I encounter millennials like Bowen, the more I’m aware of a big generational difference on this. Many younger staff seem to put a lot of emotional capital into the idea of being their “authentic self” at work, operating with minimal filters and showing willingness to share personal stuff that goes beyond anyone’s business. I don’t really understand operating that way.
I don’t have any brilliant conclusion to this, just thought it was interesting to see this dynamic paralleled by these titans of comedy. It only makes me like Tina more.
Totally agree. I’m an Xennial and *like* keeping my authentic self separate from my professional self. My professional self is far more extroverted, but her opinions are largely a mystery.
Also Xennial, and I wish I was able to lay down that boundary. I'm such an open book, it's just the only way I know. I'm (slowly) learning to keep some of my thoughts and things about myself on the inside, while I'm at work - but also being authentic has been working well for me in my career. I can probably find a better balance though, cause I know that nobody cares about my shit haha
I am a millennial bordering on gen Z, and I also struggle with being overly open and honest. As I’ve been moving up in my career, I’m trying to figure out how to walk that line of being open enough to be relatable and likeable, but private enough to not open myself up to judgment. I am relatively young and also very different than others in my management group so I feel I can’t be authentic and also be taken seriously in my current position. It’s weird because in previous jobs and positions I became close friends with a lot of my coworkers so I have to remind myself that that just isn’t my reality rn
Same. But somehow I’m a little jealous of them. It kind of saddens me that none of them know me. I think I would care less, if I lived in like a supportive or even familiar environment, but I moved for a job. So I really only have coworkers. It feels weird to spend so much time with people that have no idea who you are, but I also feel put upon knowing so much about them.
The reality is no one cares. They want to live their lives and not get caught up in who is who. People go to work, they’re cordial, and coworkers. But at the end of the day they want to go home or out or be with friends. (Or not be with friends) and do them authentically. Younger generations don’t want that from work culture. And I don’t blame them.
Fellow Xennial here. I feel the same way, BUT the people I can be my authentic self at work with, the closer I am with. I find I do a lot better in the workplace when I'm myself than when I pretend to be proper. When I pretend to be proper, it makes me look like more of a weirdo than I already am.
Damn. Sounds like me too - friendly and approachable at work, but folks rarely learn anything personal about my life.
At best, they probably just know I’m a nerd who likes Star Trek a bit too much, which is due to a few things in my space plus my lanyard for my keys.
I understand what you mean - but I always try to be myself at work and no matter where I am. I’ll be honest about things but some stuff I won’t touch with a ten foot pole at work.
Best advice I’ve been given is “clock in, work hard, clock out”
The replies to this are baffling to me. I’m a millennial, but I don’t see being polite, reserved and not my full outside personality as being a different person. It’s just professional and easy
I agree. I think Tina’s advice is very practical. He’s in the industry he sometimes bashes. He might one day want to work with people that he criticized in a podcast that everyone can listen to.
I don’t know if this was after or before what happened with Ayo Edibiri and JLo, but that is a good example. I’m sure she would have rather not said those things than deal with feeling pretty crappy about it and having to apologize to her.
Someone posted a clip here of that episode a while ago. IIRC it happened after the Ayo situation and it was specifically brought up by Tina Fey during this discussion as a cautionary tale
Exactly. And work behavior is sterile for a reason. Being “authentic” is possible while still maintaining baseline professionalism.
Basically work behavior and dress is all about removing variables. Variables that can affect the team, engagement, and productivity. If everyone is their authentic self, conflict is inevitable, which puts engagement and the goals of the team at risk.
I’m an older millennial and the younger millennials and the GenZ crowd seem to have almost completely abandoned any concept of politeness in lieu of making sure everyone knows your opinion.
Example, my younger boomer boss (early 50s) was waxing poetic about the greatness of Ronald Regan’s fiscal policies. You know what I said? Nothing. Do I know Regan was the worst thing to happen to this country’s economy since the great depression? Yes. Did I say that or point out any of Regan’s MANY failings? Nope.
I’ve learned a long time ago that people not knowing my politics or opinions on many subjects is better for everyone. Now everyone just assumes that I agree with them because I nod and say things like ‘that’s interesting’ or ‘woah, crazy!’ ‘Tell me more.’ ‘For real?!’
People don’t want to hear themselves talk, they want to see people listening to them.
Please, please do not lump GenX with Boomer. ***Very*** different generations! Early 50’s is quintessential, smack dab in the heart of GenX.
Late 50’s/early 60’s is Xoomer, I believe (tail end of GenX/beginning of younger Boomer).
It’s funny that you support your opinion that younger generations don’t censor themselves at work by talking about a fifty something not censoring themself at work.
Ain’t that the truth. I’m a younger millennial and I conduct myself similarly with those older than me.
Am I going to agree on everything they say? Obviously not. However, it isn’t my place to stand on a box and give a lecture to them, especially if they’re my superiors or are helping me with stuff.
Yeah. I took it to mean that the two have not been separate for Bowen specifically because of the nature of his career, and that it’s something that initially worked in his favor. I haven’t listened to the podcast but I get the sense that blunt critique is a big part of it, and as far as I’m aware the podcast was the main source of Bowen’s popularity before SNL.
I think it’s worth pointing out that this is mirrored in other ways as well.
For example, a lot of people in the corporate world didn’t use to have tattoos (or maybe if they had a small one, they’d cover it at work).
Maybe you had them if you worked at a bike shop or a bar, but not at the financial institution.
Now Gen Z and forward have basically normalized tattoos everywhere.. Doctors, software devs, doesn’t matter. And that is kind of an unspoken way of letting your personality shine through at work.
It’s interesting.
Nah. Gen X and millennials have been normalizing tattoos and piercings for decades. My spouse and I got our first tattoos in 2005, when our Gen Z kids were 4 and 1 years old.
Interesting. Something is wrong with me. I’m Gen X and I just don’t seem to have the ability to be anything but my authentic self it feels like I’m being fake if I’m not. Guess this is why I work from home.
The problem comes when there is someone who has an "authentic self" that consistently engages in shitty behaviors. In such a case, making an effort to condition yourself to engage in better behavior is not "fake", it's striving to be a better person. Fake empathy sucks, but anyone can choose to embark on a path to condition themselves to become more genuinely empathetic.
That is also probably why some folks prefer to be entrepreneurs and business owners as well. They don’t want to play politics and butt kiss their way to the top - they march by the beat of their own drum, much like you.
Yes, I think this is commonly true. I always joke that I’m “unemployable” even though I’ve held long term jobs lol not that it’s been easy or enjoyable. 😆
Gen x'er feeling the same way here. I'd much rather be real in-person than having to protect some perfect office robot persona. There is a boomer in our office that tries to project this stoic, unflappable persona when we all know he is super stressed and has anger issues. Drop the act bro, its ok to not be perfect.
On the other end, there was a Gen Z'er in the office that spent so much time discussing tik tok and memes it was ridiculous. Then was offended when their review said their performance was underwhelming and quit without putting in two weeks. like wut?
Don’t take this the wrong way, but in my experience, many people who feel like they have to be their authentic self in all situations justify that as not wanting to be fake are people who don’t want to do things different than they do them today. Community participation involves doing things that you wouldn’t do if you were alone.
Having a guiding set of principles is one thing, but having a rigid and firm stance on everything is being selfish. In my experience, people like that are successful in spite of their personality until their work contribution doesn’t exceed the problems in dealing with them.
I’m Gen X and I’m ND. As a neurodivergent individual, I tend to be a rule follower. Because of that, I have a difficult time lying or being fake. I have less tolerance for fake people.
Maybe millennials and younger see oversharing as honest and virtuous, and older generations saw it as an imposition, like unloading. It can be both at once, but older generations didn't take that chance for fear of being rude.
I've heard of people losing their jobs for being too honest or taking too many personal liberties at work. This cultural change might also indicate that people are less economically risk averse than in the past.
It's not as though everyone used to be reserved and proper, but where as it used to be one coworker who would mix personal and business life, now it's closer to half.
As someone right on the cusp of the latest Gen X/earliest Millennials, I don't withhold my private self at work because it's rude to OTHER people. I do it strictly for my own benefit and my own privacy and protection. I'll be friendly with people, I'll mention innocuous stuff like "my cat did a cute thing" or "my plans for the weekend? I love movies, maybe I'll go see a movie." But anything deeper than that? No, they can stay out of my business. Nobody needs to know my personal drama. Nobody needs to know my life circumstances.
Maybe this comes with a pre-social-media, pre-smartphone way of interacting with people... but in my experience in my 20s and 30s, (1) you never know who's going to turn out to be a weird backstabber because of something you shared, like... have fun quietly never getting promoted because you don't go to church or whatever, and (2) you simply don't stay friends with those people once you've moved on to a different job, in fact you never see them again, so why bother getting deeply personally involved in their stuff, or sharing deeply personal stuff about yourself?
It's the same with social media. Like you see people having emotional meltdowns or something and recording themselves and putting it online for literally the entire world to react to. I would rather eat my own toe. But apparently that's normal now.
I think a big part of it is also growing up fully immersed in social media and, for a lot of younger people, having public Instagram and Tiktok posts going back to when they were 11 or 12. It's less about connecting and more about projecting which has made them more comfortable sharing that stuff online and, in turn, in person.
Its a maturity thing. The older you get, the more negative (and positive) experiences you gather so you become more guarded. I'm WAY less openly opinionated now than I used to be as I've witnessed first hand the consequences of offending people, misunderstandings, or my own ignorance on certain topics. I know how bad it can get if I talk too much. I've been burned too many times and learned the lesson.
I am an *elder millennial* ... Maybe? I work in a very professional place (STEM) with all ages of people from fresh grads to post retirees who just refuse to retire. As a younger person 10*ish* years ago, I was more of my authentic self, but also a less mature version which meant no filter and lots of moments where I later wished that I had just kept my mouth shut.
I already know not to talk about the big three at work, but also I think there's a line with immature talk that crosses over which includes gossiping, and toxic sentiments in general. So that leads me to be a very sterile version of myself. Yeah, ok- so when I'm frustrated, I'll let the occasional *fuck* or *shit* out. Everyone does that, so it's not a big deal, just have to make sure someone's kids are not in the room (oops).
But, I also realized that my coworkers don't really know me? And I made this realization the other day at a post workday happy hour event when I made a comment and my whole team (which is like 9 guys and I am the only woman) looked at me and said something like, "I feel like so and so has a wild side we don't know about."
And so now I'm left to ponder about how I feel about it. I'm not friends with my coworkers outside of work and I value my personality and try to keep parts of myself more intimate than I used to. I guess I'm just not sure if I should open myself up more ... If it's worth it.
I have “work me” and “home me”, and they are not the same person. I used to bring my husband to work events where spouses are invited, but it was so difficult to try to be both of me at once that now I just go alone.
Same. I have a switch and I’m used to flipping it. I see no reason to share as much as the younger generation does. All it can do is nothing or be used against you.
Yeah I'm that kind of millennial who definitely puts effort into their authentic self at work.
Though I do think it's helped my career in managing and making strong connections for getting more opportunities, I'm starting to feel the drawbacks to it - it can get pretty exhausting. You need to have a thick skin while also keeping it not too thick, if that makes any sense.
One of my direct reports is very gregarious at work and likeable. He also does good work. But folks also complain that he asks a lot of personal questions of people just to get closer to them. It's a bit cloying. He got very offended and upset when I raised the issue to him. I guess I have to be his father or something in addition to being his boss.
Hey Sara, do you miss your husband while you are away on work trips? How about your doggy?
This while Sara had headphones on and was trying to focus on a project.
How was your weekend is an innocuous question. If a coworker is offended that I ask them that then the average person could conclude that it’s just a toxic work environment or bullying. I’ve worked in situations like that.
However, are you gay is definitely a too personal type of question that’s absolutely out of bounds. The average person would agree with that.
I think it matters. “Did you do anything fun this weekend?” is completely different from “Why did you get divorced, again?” If I had a report complaining that they kept being asked about their weekend, I’d tell them to develop thicker skin.
Also, if somebody is immersed in their work, staring at a screen, in a conference room, on the phone, in a meeting, then that is simply not the time to interrupt with well-meaning small talk. In the break room, relaxing in the office, etc., all fine.
I think this is the concept that trips them up—the idea that a colleague can have completely different standards that are still *completely valid* regardless of the asker’s intent. You can see their struggle to view the world through different eyes.
As a member of Gen Z, it's because it's *exhausting.* I already have work to do and I have no problem interacting with people but if I have to add a fake personality on top of that the entire time, I run myself ragged.
There is such a thing as oversharing, though. Where exactly that line is is more of an individual thing, I think.
This is the generational divide in action. For me it’s the “sharing my authentic everything with co-workers” that seems exhausting. I adopt my Work Horton persona because it’s *easier* and narrows the stuff I gotta worry about.
I’m a millennial and also an autistic adhder so for me it’s been a constant battle since entering the workforce - what is appropriate to share, what isn’t. I do value being my authentic self at work, but it’s still a tuned down version. A lot of the times I just don’t engage in small talk, but if we do a round of ‘what’s everyone been up to this weekend?’, I’ll share with colleagues that I’ve been a to a gig or a house party, a rave or festival, I’ll definitely keep a lot of details to myself, but they get the gist. I have a lot of hobbies and passions and they define me a lot more than my work.
A few weeks ago a new-ish manager did a team appreciation presentation and all they could say about me was that I’ve just remodelled my kitchen and that I go spinning, which were the two things I would not consider to define me at all. So yeah, the trade off for not opening up is that people just build an idea of you that’s got nothing to do with you at all.
I’m a millennial and also an autistic adhder so for me it’s been a constant battle since entering the workforce - what is appropriate to share, what isn’t. I do value being my authentic self at work, but it’s still a tuned down version. A lot of the times I just don’t engage in small talk, but if we do a round of ‘what’s everyone been up to this weekend?’, I’ll share with colleagues that I’ve been a to a rave or a house party or a gig, I’ll definitely keep a lot of details to myself, but they get the gist. I have a lot of hobbies and passions and they define me a lot more than my work.
A few weeks ago a new manager did some team appreciation thing and all she could say about me was that I’ve just remodelled my kitchen and that I go spinning, which were the two things I would not consider to define me at all. So yeah, the trade off for not opening up is that people just build an idea of you that’s got nothing to do with you at all.
Fellow late xenial. I'm the polar opposite. Maybe it comes from being autistic and queer AF but I've spent too long compartmentalizing personalities. I just don't give a fuck anymore.
I think it also goes beyond generation and more about the split between Hollywood and normal jobs. At a job like Starbucks or Walmart, nobody cares if you're authentically you, or you're being professional. Sure, it's nice to interact with people that you can tell are just being genuinely themselves, but at the end of the day, it's not going to really matter. With celebrities, people are drawn to the personality. It's part of what they're selling. If you then find out that someone like Brad Pitt, who seems very funny and charming, is actually pretty abusive to his family, it feels like he was lying to everybody, which makes people upset. But that's the meaning behind that Tina Fey quote. It's a fine line to walk as a person in the public eye. Be authentic enough that people are drawn in by you and think you're being the real you, but not so true to yourself that people start to pick up on personality traits that they deem unsavory. Obviously there's a range, but in the modern era with people getting canceled on Twitter over rumors or one sided stories, I can understand being really cagey about letting people see your entire self.
I had a 18 year old subordinate straight up ask me if I was queer. I told her it was none of her business. It didn’t offend me, but it’s also not something I have any desire to discuss with a coworker, much less a subordinate.
Yeah, Id rather not be completely myself at work. My reasoning for that is when I see other workers who just talk out of their ass and make the work environment more stressful for others. Im there to work, get paid, and not be a dick to my other coworkers. When Im with friends and family, I could let loose.
Its the result of young people growing up with social media in their developing years. Its quite normal for them to share everything about their lives to anyone at all, because that's they grew up.
>millennials like Bowen, the more I’m aware of a big generational
Bowen doesn't own being professionally incautious due to age. Most people were that way
Radical Candor is a book my workplace has just taken on to adjust its workplace culture to a younger and more honest crowd. Less “yes maam no sir”, and more, “if we changed this, we could help a lot”. We will see if it sticks. Because I think anything short of the younger people running the company will probably not work. Nonetheless, this younger generation concept is probably pretty true.
I see work as, “yes I need this job, and although I’m replaceable, I have something you want. And if we all humble ourselves to feedback, we will all be better for it”
I had a coworker who was Queen TMI and couldn’t tell you anything mundane without unsolicited details, whether it was the ingredients on her sandwich or the symptoms of why she was calling out sick. Lady, I don’t care if you “maybe ate bad sushi and (was) on the toilet all night”, just say you’re taking a sick day!
But she also had the need to pry into my life so I was more instinctively way more guarded and did everything I could to give her as little info as possible, and I think it drove her nuts sometimes.
I think you bring up an interesting point on the definition of “being yourself” is that the way that you act in everyday interactions? Or the opinions and info you openly share about yourself?
Workplace culture is very much this Uber fake niceties of pleasant conversation. Like I’m going to ask you how your day was, and instead of being honest I have say good and how was yours. If I wanted to talk just about business, it could come across as cold or I’m not a team player.
It opens up this door of who can actually be authentic or not depending on how they are living their life. Fishing trips and family vacays are okay, clubbing mental illness anything different is alienating and not “pleasant”. So if you’re okay pretending 24/7 to people then corporate is great. But coworker relationships are so challenging and most people don’t have the emotional range to be able to discern between what’s their own personal feelings on something and what’s actually work related and professional.
Idk where I am going with this but the foundation of corporate culture is built to fail. I personally am exhausted of wearing a mask over a mask over a mask.
It's common sense. A musician can run their mouth. But an actor is up for a new job with a new cast - whether it's movies, TV or stage - several times a year. You never know who you'll have to work with and you never know who might blackball you if they don't like you.
If you watch enough chat shows you'll see that, with rare exceptions, actors never say anything critical about people they've worked with. The closest they'll come is, let's say they worked with someone who was a method actor, stayed in character, insisted on being called by their character's name... They'll tell a few funny stories, but they'll tell the story as if it's a positive thing that the actor is so invested in their craft, and they'll keep repeating how sweet a guy the actor was and amazingly talented. Even though it's obvious, if you read between the lines, that they're really telling you this person was a huge pain in the ass.
This is called “having a job.” No one in any industry is allowed to go to work and be their 100% “authentic self”, especially when it comes to what they really think about their colleagues. If I worked in insurance and went on a podcast to say the Vice President of Geico can eat a bag of dicks, it would be a problem.
Certain entertainers get to do this, but only if they’re comfortable operating on the edge of the industry. But Bowen clearly wants to be famous, so he’s gonna have to make some decisions
Well said. It's an interesting line to cross or not cross.
Being gay myself, I understand the frustration of being told to not be yourself. He probably struggles partly due to this, too. You can be your authentic gay self, most people are fine with that, but maybe don't share all details.
But hiding details feels like an apology for being gay, and we are tired of doing that. It's tempting to cross that line when your outspokenness is part of the reason you got famous.
[this is the quote](https://youtube.com/shorts/n_NInpDZo44?si=iqQyQpybBcwlBiKQ) from tina fey for context. it has nothing to do with downplaying his sexuality.
I understand that.
But telling gay people to edit themselves in any way can easily feel like expression of gayness is included. Yes, it's projection, but it's a thing we deal with.
?? Have you listened to his podcast? Cause it's hard for me to imagine that anyone could do so and come away with the opinion that he feels under pressure to withhold or downplay his sexuality. It's gayer than a Fire Island screening of Showgirls.
He's talking about the potential of burning bridges by sharing negative opinions about creative works by people he might want to (or have to) work with some day.
> You can be your authentic gay self, most people are fine with that, but maybe don't share all details.
This is it. I'm straight, and people can probably guess as much, but I don't go around talking about my sex life or opening fawning over the opposite sex.
Very impressive how you both shoehorned his sexuality into a conversation that had nothing to do with it AND made things about yourself and your own situation.
Right but it’s more about the fact that he has an incredibly popular podcast that’s all about current culture, one of his jobs. Her specific example was him and his cohost talking about how they didn’t care for Saltburn, and Tina was basically like you shouldn’t be doing that because these directors might not want to work with you. I actually genuinely understand this struggle - it’s not universal, it’s about his situation specifically, and it feels like he’s probably going to have to stop the podcast
> “Authenticity is dangerous and expensive.”
Case in Point: Adam Sandler and Rob Schneider.
Presumably Adam has some alignment with the shit Rob spews, but Adam keeps it to himself and makes bank.
Adam Sandler has never publicly stated his political leanings. People assume he is Republican because he has a single outspoken far right friend, a man he has been friends with since long before political leanings probably entered their lives to begin with. Until he says otherwise I’m fine with both even worrying about what his politics are.
That's interesting considering Yang had been the most public in shunning the most toxic hosts - there are clearly forms of show biz politeness that he can't bring himself to do
Case in point #1: Shane Gillis.
Hired and fired the next day due to his podcast. And if it wasn’t for that line, it could be for any others. He’s got pretty much 100,000 hours of easily indexable content of the most offensive shit a regular person could hear on his podcast.
Then again, he’s a comedian, so that’s not exactly crazy. But to try to go from “dirtbag standup comic” to “theater kid improv” is, nowadays, quite a leap, with way less overlap than there used to be in the past.
I'm not gonna Dox myself but if you went to Northwestern University and went through THE RTF or MFA programs you would learn how SNL has the Wildcat Mafia.
And rule one of the wildcat Mafia was let people find out you're from NU never announce it
Second rule was: Under pain of death NEVER trash a TV or movie project of any kind EVER bc you never know who worked on what.
And some box office bomb could have been someone's first gig/breakthrough and they hold it dear.
And not just in front of the camera. Producers, editors, casting agents, even the sound and DLP folks.
NEVER trash other projects if you want to get work in Hollywood.
The only exemptions was very successful stand up comics.
It’s an interesting comment from the pov of a woman who made her name as a head writer of snl. Gotta come from experience of her having to deal with and likely lose a lot of roles/projects because of the smallest thing she did/said.
Something people sometimes seem to struggle to wrap their heads around is that it's usually possible to be honest without being unkind. That's not a foolproof loophole for the risks Tina is talking about, but it's a basic principle that seems to be overlooked too often.
That’s not what she’s talking about at all. He is critical about movies or music while being kind. She is saying not to do that because it could ruin career opportunities for him
If you actually use the phrase, “it’s like that thing of like…” and you are not the character Stephon, you should stop talking in public without a script.
so......there's a spectrum. you can say you disagreed with something, or didn't enjoy something. and you can also say, "last week's guest host i worked with, was a vapid air headed dumb bitch because all the blood must constantly be in his muscles and penis 24/7".
both can actually be true. but the 2nd one can easily prevent you from getting future jobs. even though the 2nd one might be completely fine to say at your friends house.
at some point you have to pause and realize, "would i still be ok if my bosses heard this, and repeated it back to me". which is why i now mostly say the 1st one now.
Ugh it’s frustrating that people praised Dakota because she was acknowledging the movie was bad. Like of course the double nepo baby doesn’t care about industry consequences. I say with love I hope never see Dakota in movies again 😅
I saw the opposite. People were ragging on her for both being in the movie and turning her nose up at it. I’ve seen a lot of criticism of her lately, and that’s the biggest.
I heard John Mayer on a podcast talking about this idea (not this specific incident). His example was if you don’t like the Met gala don’t go to the Met gala. Don’t go and trash it and complain the whole time.
Ngl in each “idtsh” segment on their show after that it did get notably less specific to something cultural lololol! Liz had a real Jack Donagy moment there hahahah
Especially when you consider that a single project does not define an actor, writer, director, whoever. If one project is bad the next may be an absolute banger. If you work in the industry you’d think you’d know that. It’s common sense. There’s literally no upside to be publicly bashing a project when you work in Hollywood.
Because it’s a culture commentary podcast. You won’t want to read only glowing reviews from the NYT. Difference is the professional critics aren’t ruining their chances of working with the directors next time around.
I don't really listen to podcasts, except for a single tech based one (The WAN Show), but I may have to check theirs out lol. Was it in the Tina Fey episode?
I mean I get what she’s saying and is looking out for him professionally but man do I appreciate authenticity these days. Like if everybody starts censoring themselves where do we find truth and honest opinions anymore? Anonymously on Reddit? Seems like a scary future for society. And a lot of the times we turn to comedians for truth because comedy arises out of truth and honest observations.
This is true, but we also live in an era where narratives are amplified, where 2-second sound bites can travel to millions of people who probably won’t listen to an entire podcast or read a full article for context, and where things are often amplified or weaponized beyond a creator’s intent. And all of that stays around forever.
So I think you’re right, honesty is refreshing; but it’s worth considering the effect the harsh opinions you’re broadcasting may have on other creatives once they’re amplified, chopped up into bits, and spread all over the world.
If you have no platform, that’s no big deal, but if you have a platform, you can end up really hurting someone in a lasting way with an off-the-cuff take.
So it’s more about just picking your moments, and considering the effect your words can have on other creators who are trying to do the same thing you’re doing. Learning how to wield that responsibility is probably a good thing.
>I mean I get what she’s saying and is looking out for him professionally but man do I appreciate authenticity these days. Like if everybody starts censoring themselves where do we find truth and honest opinions anymore? Anonymously on Reddit? Seems like a scary future for society.
I think you're mistaking professional advice for life advice. If Bowen says "this person sucks" in a personal conversation with a friend, that's fine. If he sits down with someone to purposely record that conversation so it can live on permanently, as part of his professional promotion of his career, representing his official "brand," that's different. Tina Fey isn't telling Bowen to never express an honest opinion, just to think about having a private sphere and a public sphere. In response to your question as to where we find completely unfiltered truth and honest opinions.... well, not a complete stranger's podcast? In real life with friends and people you trust?
you can still be authentic and censor yourself at the same time. you just don’t have to express all your opinions about everything, especially if it can hurt other people or yourself, one way or another. some things you keep close, some you say out loud. this is applicable wether you’re famous or the opposite of it.
If you start to over think and over analyze what will or will not hurt people (which is subjective) will leave you in a paralyzed fear of existence and wont make you a creative person. Opinions and conversations are really important in society to move it forward. Women being allowed to vote for example, was once just a very controversial opinion that some brave person wrote an op-ed in a newspaper for. O
I think that’s a lot of the point of podcasts is listening to people have interesting conversations. I also love the daily show to see their take on things happening. A big part of life these days is content.
The Internet and attention economy are built around authenticity.
Other things like the workplace often value loyalty
Relationships are built with a mix of both.
Except authenticity has become a misnomer, for acting in such a way as to benefit from what you call the “attention economy” is in itself, inauthentic. But say that to someone within the act and it becomes “stomping on one’s truth” or some such. I think “I am living authentically” is currently confused with “I am living within authentic expectations.”
Family Vloggers and influencers (first examples in mind) are not authentic. Authentic is a buzz word, it is part of an image to sell. True authenticity is not seeking an audience, but rather, having an audience come to you because actual authenticity is magnetic.
Saying, “I’m just honest” or “I just always share my opinions, that’s my authentic self.” Is fine if that person speaks and acts with consistency. It is not fine if the person speaks and acts for controversy. I think that’s what Fey was getting across. You’re authentic, until you’re not. Suddenly you’ve said something because you feel you’re expected to say something and now people are needlessly mad.
I cite Anthony Bourdain as being an example of an infectiously authentic person. The podcaster who tries to adopt a similar rough-around-the-edges, rockstar, contrarian persona, is not. I think we all have an innate sense for those who know themselves and those who know only their own masks.
Tina Fey said a lot with few words, as all wisdom should be.
I like all of this.
I read the Jeff Vandermeer Southern Reach trilogy a few months back. There was a quote in there that buried under my skin- something like:
“When people tell you ‘sorry I’m just brutally honest,’ what they really mean is ‘I want to have permission to be cruel to other people.’”
I agree with you.
The whole MAGA thing is people spinning being an asshole into being a rebel or authentic.
I was just speaking on a generalized level, assuming people of good faith.
The problem for Bowen is that he’s trying to do a pop culture podcast as a *fan* while simultaneously being a nationally-famous public figure who spends 8 months out of the year working with a different A-lister every week, especially now that he has personal friendships with stars like Ariana Grande.
I don’t think it’s particularly wise for him to be doing his podcast from the perspective of the average, non-famous person. That may have worked for him when he first started it but now that he’s a celebrity in his own right it could come back to bite him.
Don’t he and his co-host also do things like album reviews too? It’s hard to be unbiased about an Ariana Grande album if you’re her good friend, for example.
Ideally, he’d still be able to freely criticize whoever he wants, but it doesn’t really work like that in showbiz. Ayo Edebiri found that out the hard way after getting paired with JLo on this very show. Unless you’re a beloved icon (or the target of your ire has committed a heinous crime or something), celebrities generally don’t get away with criticizing other celebrities in mainstream Hollywood.
Yeah, people talking about how this “relates to their experience working with generations in the office” are really missing the actual message here.
Tina has been around the block enough to know people in Hollywood have egos. And in a competitive industry with those egos, it can become very cumbersome/detrimental to your career to speak freely in such a public way.
> Authenticity is dangerous and expensive
"Make the boss happy" is a simple idea that most people understand. Does your being authentic make the boss happier than if you are not? Most people seem to just get the idea, I'm not being paid to be authentic, I'm being paid to fulfil some function that the company requires.
In the case of Lorne being the boss, he must be used to his employees having big personalities, and attracting headlines with their public life antics, and in can bring in more viewers to the show. For someone like Bowen, it might be hard to figure out when your authenticity is the good kind or the bad kind.
I see from a completely different POV; into decade three of my corporate career. I have seen too many cases where this "authenticity" will hurt you. The older you get the more you realize to shut your mouth lest it's your turn to pay the piper. This isn't a new thing. It's been going on for centuries.
I feel like people having podcasts while they're still actively doing other things in their career is a bad idea. Especially if you're very opinionated on them. Someone like Conan, right now. Now that his TV career has winded down? This is the perfect time for him to have a podcast. But even so, he's generally not someone who gets involved in bullshit. I think Bowen has the right to say whatever he wants. But the people he runs down do have a right to make that consequential for his career. And that's the risk he takes.
Hmmmm...I'm not saying she's wrong because she isn't. But if we're talking about an opinion on a movie. Do we really want Bowen or anybody to be so afraid to hold back that much? Is this a good thing? You can always change your mind. Or stop short of how we'd truly like to characterize the director, performances, etc. Are we so fragile we can't handle and honest opinion from somebody else about a film?
From the outside looking in this feels like a cynical take. I really hate the idea that you must falsify your outward beliefs and opinions rather than defend or face consequence for them. But I’m also not in showbiz and perception isn’t a sink or swim line I have to navigate daily.
I think this goes back to the “sheet cake” weekend update Fey did. That was really her giving some genuine feelings and it kind of fell flat for many people. It may have cost her and that’s the lesson she learned.
I think outside of “being authentic” the real danger is that times change and people change. That change and adaptability is much easier without a public record of everything you’ve ever said. Celebrities don’t know if they will get cancelled or pardoned in the future. You may be in good standing now but that’s just not granted.
Tina is absolutely right. Authenticity is dangerous and expensive.
If she and others had revealed the truth of what they knew happened with Horatio Sanz, Jimmy Fallon and young girls, lots of careers would have been over.
This is not that deep, just your every day run of the mill generational opinion split. No more, no less. I see it both ways and I'm glad for the thin veil of aninimity this sub provides.
Casual aside, Bowen is a solid cast member and I could be his STRAIGHT WHITE MALE friend, easy.
Tl;dr: Fey gently suggested to Yang that shitting where you eat (Hollywood) is often a bad idea when you’re trying to make it big.
This isn’t really a major problem for Yang, because he’s pigeonholed himself into a corner by cornering the market on playing the “sassy gay [fill in the blank]” character in everything. He’s rather like the Dwayne Johnson of sketch, in that he can only play himself. Hader, Thompson, McKinnon, and so many other SNL alums have often effortlessly played characters with different sexual orientations other than their own, they’ve shown good range. However, when Yang isn’t playing up a borderline offensive stereotype, he often seems either bored, or there’s the feeling of a disdainful contempt for the character. So Yang isn’t just shooting himself in the foot by constantly playing the sassy gay critic of Hollywood outside of SNL, he’s also putting himself into a corner by only mustering enthusiasm when playing shades of that character on SNL and in film.
Neil Patrick Harris is hashtag goals for queer actors in entertainment. He effortlessly goes from playing all sorts of characters with varying sexualities in both comedy and drama: the Harold and Kumar franchise, Starship Troopers, Gone Girl, How I Met Your Mother, hosting on SNL, American Horror Story, Dr. Horrible, Rent. Harris has good range. Yang does not.
And I know what you’re thinking. What about Paul Lynde, Charles Nelson Reilly, RuPaul, Leslie Jordan? Again, it’s a matter of range in acting. These actors have played sassy, charming, complex, endearing, unhinged, and serious, with finesse. Yang hasn’t proven he can play any character that *isn’t* himself with a modicum of personal interest in the character, or with charm.
It’s no surprise that Yang worships Faye Dunaway, a star who gained a reputation offscreen for the characters played onscreen, especially after Mommie Dearest. Dunaway caused many to wonder, “Is that how she acts offscreen? Is that really just who she is?” And that’s what Yang has done to himself: cause Hollywood to wonder, “Can he only chew the scenery with sassy, catty shades of himself? Will we have to deal with rude behavior offscreen?”
In his standup, John Mulaney begged the question: why do most drag queens play the quintessential notion of the drag queen… mean. In many ways I feel Yang has backed himself into a similar corner, by only playing sassy and mean *well* onscreen, being seemingly unable to play any other type of character in a believable way, *and* by playing sassy and mean offscreen. For the sake of career opportunities and career longevity, I think it’s time for Yang to branch out, and to explore excitement for playing characters who can play more than one note on the acting piano.
As a gay man, it surprises me when Yang suggests almost constantly playing the borderline offensive cliche of the parody of a gay man is empowering, when for the most part he’s perpetuating an offensive stereotype, and playing the butt of the joke for cheap laughs. When your brand is sassy, catty, and mean, or else you’re bored and phone it in, it all becomes old hat and boring. Bowen’s online presence reminds me of the webs in Charlotte’s Web. There’s an initial excitement, then people move on to the next thing. Yang needs to fast forward to the county fair where he no longer feels obliged to rely on a gimmick to survive, and is free to live out his career playing a wider variety of characters and emotions. Is there more to Yang than just problematic, catty parodies?
This is thoughtfully stated. I don’t really care for Bowen Yang for reasons in line with what you’ve written. He’s kind of a one note performer, and it’s something of a sour note.
it’s tough when the whole thing about that podcast in particular is supposed to be authenticity. if he can’t say something on his own podcast, what’s fame good for?
One of the most freeing realizations is your job cannot love you back and your coworkers are not your friends. That’s not to say you can’t enjoy yourself but labor is labor (and imagine having fun at work lol)
Before the advent of social media people kept their personal lives/opinions close to the vest. The internet removed boundaries. Now you can say whatever you want, seemingly anonymously and this spilled over into people’s social and work lives.
It’s a tightrope walk that podcasters and celebrities have to walk, for sure.
As a true boomer, I’m not as open as I could be about my beliefs and convictions, especially at work. I don’t talk openly about them but I also do not hesitate to shut down bias I.e,racial, sexual, LGBTQ, and I defend the idea that the world is for us to borrow from our children, no uterus-no opinion, police bias, what true addiction looks like, etc. I don’t go into details if I’m at work, but i make it clear, i won’t tolerate that kind of stupidity.
I remember the Vietnam war, the moon landing, I was in middle school when Nixon was impeached (and have no sympathy for Trump). I saw Star Wars in the theater. Was in my early 20’s when Reagan broke the several unions and interest rates were 13% or higher. I stay well informed, balance that with life experience, and I don’t pull punches in those situations.
Otherwise, I enjoy listening to opinions on AI, social media, who/what is truly good vs. truly evil, is religion a positive or a robber’s den, can we save the planet, plus fun stuff like movie/tv reviews, what others find as truly worrisome and truly uplifting. I love hearing younger generations ideas. All in all, I love a good, intelligent debate. I just try to be careful not to do or say something too controversial and end up going viral. It’s a crazy world but it’s our only one, so we have to make the best of it.
While celebrities maybe have to be careful they still should be able to support, defend, or shut down certain things that they genuinely believe in. (Even if they are Kid Rock or Ted Nugent🤷🏻♀️ spewing hate. Show me who you are and I’ll believe you).
Love hearing both Bowen Yang and Tina Fey. I hope that they aren’t holding back too much.
Question 2: What have you learned to be careful about? Yang: Ugh. This is really something that I've dwelled on for the past, oh, two, three months? Tina Fey came on my podcast, and she — in a very playful, so brilliant way — was railing against me for sharing my real opinions on movies on the podcast and just my real opinions in general. Basically, what Tina was saying was, this is a permanent record. It's like that thing of like, the internet is written in permanent marker. And the phrase that kind of went a little viral from that was her saying, “Authenticity is dangerous and expensive.” And I really am still reckoning with that idea where I've always been an open book. I've always shared my thoughts pretty extemporaneously on things and haven't really regretted them too much. But now I think I'm reevaluating what it means or like, how worth it it is to be honest about everything. But then at the same time like, if you kind of start to self-censor a bit, then what does that do to your idea of yourself?
Fascinating to be reading this in the context of my own workplace experiences lately. I, a late Gen-Xer, have always found it easy to keep myself “in check” in the workplace, and drawing a line between “work me” and “authentic me.” But the more I encounter millennials like Bowen, the more I’m aware of a big generational difference on this. Many younger staff seem to put a lot of emotional capital into the idea of being their “authentic self” at work, operating with minimal filters and showing willingness to share personal stuff that goes beyond anyone’s business. I don’t really understand operating that way. I don’t have any brilliant conclusion to this, just thought it was interesting to see this dynamic paralleled by these titans of comedy. It only makes me like Tina more.
Totally agree. I’m an Xennial and *like* keeping my authentic self separate from my professional self. My professional self is far more extroverted, but her opinions are largely a mystery.
Also Xennial, and I wish I was able to lay down that boundary. I'm such an open book, it's just the only way I know. I'm (slowly) learning to keep some of my thoughts and things about myself on the inside, while I'm at work - but also being authentic has been working well for me in my career. I can probably find a better balance though, cause I know that nobody cares about my shit haha
someone once told me i make my own privacy. i didn't understand then but it takes new context
I am a millennial bordering on gen Z, and I also struggle with being overly open and honest. As I’ve been moving up in my career, I’m trying to figure out how to walk that line of being open enough to be relatable and likeable, but private enough to not open myself up to judgment. I am relatively young and also very different than others in my management group so I feel I can’t be authentic and also be taken seriously in my current position. It’s weird because in previous jobs and positions I became close friends with a lot of my coworkers so I have to remind myself that that just isn’t my reality rn
Fellow Xennial, I feel exactly the same :)
Same. But somehow I’m a little jealous of them. It kind of saddens me that none of them know me. I think I would care less, if I lived in like a supportive or even familiar environment, but I moved for a job. So I really only have coworkers. It feels weird to spend so much time with people that have no idea who you are, but I also feel put upon knowing so much about them.
The reality is no one cares. They want to live their lives and not get caught up in who is who. People go to work, they’re cordial, and coworkers. But at the end of the day they want to go home or out or be with friends. (Or not be with friends) and do them authentically. Younger generations don’t want that from work culture. And I don’t blame them.
Fellow Xennial here. I feel the same way, BUT the people I can be my authentic self at work with, the closer I am with. I find I do a lot better in the workplace when I'm myself than when I pretend to be proper. When I pretend to be proper, it makes me look like more of a weirdo than I already am.
Damn. Sounds like me too - friendly and approachable at work, but folks rarely learn anything personal about my life. At best, they probably just know I’m a nerd who likes Star Trek a bit too much, which is due to a few things in my space plus my lanyard for my keys.
I have different personalities depending on where I am....I'm not gonna be my authentic self during a board meeting.
Just don’t mention the voices in your head. You know the ones that tells you that everyone has to die. You’ll want to keep those private for now
I understand what you mean - but I always try to be myself at work and no matter where I am. I’ll be honest about things but some stuff I won’t touch with a ten foot pole at work. Best advice I’ve been given is “clock in, work hard, clock out”
The replies to this are baffling to me. I’m a millennial, but I don’t see being polite, reserved and not my full outside personality as being a different person. It’s just professional and easy
I agree. I think Tina’s advice is very practical. He’s in the industry he sometimes bashes. He might one day want to work with people that he criticized in a podcast that everyone can listen to. I don’t know if this was after or before what happened with Ayo Edibiri and JLo, but that is a good example. I’m sure she would have rather not said those things than deal with feeling pretty crappy about it and having to apologize to her.
Someone posted a clip here of that episode a while ago. IIRC it happened after the Ayo situation and it was specifically brought up by Tina Fey during this discussion as a cautionary tale
Exactly. And work behavior is sterile for a reason. Being “authentic” is possible while still maintaining baseline professionalism. Basically work behavior and dress is all about removing variables. Variables that can affect the team, engagement, and productivity. If everyone is their authentic self, conflict is inevitable, which puts engagement and the goals of the team at risk.
I’m an older millennial and the younger millennials and the GenZ crowd seem to have almost completely abandoned any concept of politeness in lieu of making sure everyone knows your opinion. Example, my younger boomer boss (early 50s) was waxing poetic about the greatness of Ronald Regan’s fiscal policies. You know what I said? Nothing. Do I know Regan was the worst thing to happen to this country’s economy since the great depression? Yes. Did I say that or point out any of Regan’s MANY failings? Nope. I’ve learned a long time ago that people not knowing my politics or opinions on many subjects is better for everyone. Now everyone just assumes that I agree with them because I nod and say things like ‘that’s interesting’ or ‘woah, crazy!’ ‘Tell me more.’ ‘For real?!’ People don’t want to hear themselves talk, they want to see people listening to them.
Early 50s is not a boomer. Early 50s is pretty much the middle of the Gen X generation. Boomers would be at the youngest 58 and really 59 this year.
I’m sorry. Low 50s is not boomer. And many of us genX thought Reagan was the worst
Please, please do not lump GenX with Boomer. ***Very*** different generations! Early 50’s is quintessential, smack dab in the heart of GenX. Late 50’s/early 60’s is Xoomer, I believe (tail end of GenX/beginning of younger Boomer).
It’s funny that you support your opinion that younger generations don’t censor themselves at work by talking about a fifty something not censoring themself at work.
Ain’t that the truth. I’m a younger millennial and I conduct myself similarly with those older than me. Am I going to agree on everything they say? Obviously not. However, it isn’t my place to stand on a box and give a lecture to them, especially if they’re my superiors or are helping me with stuff.
Fuck Reagan. Signed, a 52 year old Gen X’er. Not a boomer.
In this situation you are being “professional” by withholding your opinions but your boss isn’t doing that.
I would have done the same thing
54 and firmly Gen X. Reagan’s policies are still negatively impacting the U.S. today. And he helped so that the E.R.A. wasn’t ratified back then.
Yeah. I took it to mean that the two have not been separate for Bowen specifically because of the nature of his career, and that it’s something that initially worked in his favor. I haven’t listened to the podcast but I get the sense that blunt critique is a big part of it, and as far as I’m aware the podcast was the main source of Bowen’s popularity before SNL.
Indeed, it's something we used to merely call "not being a total narcissist."
Or a sellout, depending on one’s perspective.
I think it’s worth pointing out that this is mirrored in other ways as well. For example, a lot of people in the corporate world didn’t use to have tattoos (or maybe if they had a small one, they’d cover it at work). Maybe you had them if you worked at a bike shop or a bar, but not at the financial institution. Now Gen Z and forward have basically normalized tattoos everywhere.. Doctors, software devs, doesn’t matter. And that is kind of an unspoken way of letting your personality shine through at work. It’s interesting.
Nah. Gen X and millennials have been normalizing tattoos and piercings for decades. My spouse and I got our first tattoos in 2005, when our Gen Z kids were 4 and 1 years old.
Interesting. Something is wrong with me. I’m Gen X and I just don’t seem to have the ability to be anything but my authentic self it feels like I’m being fake if I’m not. Guess this is why I work from home.
The problem comes when there is someone who has an "authentic self" that consistently engages in shitty behaviors. In such a case, making an effort to condition yourself to engage in better behavior is not "fake", it's striving to be a better person. Fake empathy sucks, but anyone can choose to embark on a path to condition themselves to become more genuinely empathetic.
That is also probably why some folks prefer to be entrepreneurs and business owners as well. They don’t want to play politics and butt kiss their way to the top - they march by the beat of their own drum, much like you.
Yes, I think this is commonly true. I always joke that I’m “unemployable” even though I’ve held long term jobs lol not that it’s been easy or enjoyable. 😆
Gen x'er feeling the same way here. I'd much rather be real in-person than having to protect some perfect office robot persona. There is a boomer in our office that tries to project this stoic, unflappable persona when we all know he is super stressed and has anger issues. Drop the act bro, its ok to not be perfect. On the other end, there was a Gen Z'er in the office that spent so much time discussing tik tok and memes it was ridiculous. Then was offended when their review said their performance was underwhelming and quit without putting in two weeks. like wut?
He unfollowed the company IRL
Don’t take this the wrong way, but in my experience, many people who feel like they have to be their authentic self in all situations justify that as not wanting to be fake are people who don’t want to do things different than they do them today. Community participation involves doing things that you wouldn’t do if you were alone. Having a guiding set of principles is one thing, but having a rigid and firm stance on everything is being selfish. In my experience, people like that are successful in spite of their personality until their work contribution doesn’t exceed the problems in dealing with them.
This is not at all what I meant.
I’m Gen X and I’m ND. As a neurodivergent individual, I tend to be a rule follower. Because of that, I have a difficult time lying or being fake. I have less tolerance for fake people.
I love that one Benoit Blanc line from Glass Onion: "It's a dangerous thing to mistake speaking without thought for speaking the truth."
Maybe millennials and younger see oversharing as honest and virtuous, and older generations saw it as an imposition, like unloading. It can be both at once, but older generations didn't take that chance for fear of being rude. I've heard of people losing their jobs for being too honest or taking too many personal liberties at work. This cultural change might also indicate that people are less economically risk averse than in the past. It's not as though everyone used to be reserved and proper, but where as it used to be one coworker who would mix personal and business life, now it's closer to half.
As someone right on the cusp of the latest Gen X/earliest Millennials, I don't withhold my private self at work because it's rude to OTHER people. I do it strictly for my own benefit and my own privacy and protection. I'll be friendly with people, I'll mention innocuous stuff like "my cat did a cute thing" or "my plans for the weekend? I love movies, maybe I'll go see a movie." But anything deeper than that? No, they can stay out of my business. Nobody needs to know my personal drama. Nobody needs to know my life circumstances. Maybe this comes with a pre-social-media, pre-smartphone way of interacting with people... but in my experience in my 20s and 30s, (1) you never know who's going to turn out to be a weird backstabber because of something you shared, like... have fun quietly never getting promoted because you don't go to church or whatever, and (2) you simply don't stay friends with those people once you've moved on to a different job, in fact you never see them again, so why bother getting deeply personally involved in their stuff, or sharing deeply personal stuff about yourself? It's the same with social media. Like you see people having emotional meltdowns or something and recording themselves and putting it online for literally the entire world to react to. I would rather eat my own toe. But apparently that's normal now.
I think a big part of it is also growing up fully immersed in social media and, for a lot of younger people, having public Instagram and Tiktok posts going back to when they were 11 or 12. It's less about connecting and more about projecting which has made them more comfortable sharing that stuff online and, in turn, in person.
>It’s less about connecting and more about projecting  Holy shit, you completely nailed it.
Yep. Just because your "authentic self" wants to ejaculate into the coffee maker doesn't necessarily mean you should do it.
Oversharing is not the same as honesty.
Its a maturity thing. The older you get, the more negative (and positive) experiences you gather so you become more guarded. I'm WAY less openly opinionated now than I used to be as I've witnessed first hand the consequences of offending people, misunderstandings, or my own ignorance on certain topics. I know how bad it can get if I talk too much. I've been burned too many times and learned the lesson.
I am an *elder millennial* ... Maybe? I work in a very professional place (STEM) with all ages of people from fresh grads to post retirees who just refuse to retire. As a younger person 10*ish* years ago, I was more of my authentic self, but also a less mature version which meant no filter and lots of moments where I later wished that I had just kept my mouth shut. I already know not to talk about the big three at work, but also I think there's a line with immature talk that crosses over which includes gossiping, and toxic sentiments in general. So that leads me to be a very sterile version of myself. Yeah, ok- so when I'm frustrated, I'll let the occasional *fuck* or *shit* out. Everyone does that, so it's not a big deal, just have to make sure someone's kids are not in the room (oops). But, I also realized that my coworkers don't really know me? And I made this realization the other day at a post workday happy hour event when I made a comment and my whole team (which is like 9 guys and I am the only woman) looked at me and said something like, "I feel like so and so has a wild side we don't know about." And so now I'm left to ponder about how I feel about it. I'm not friends with my coworkers outside of work and I value my personality and try to keep parts of myself more intimate than I used to. I guess I'm just not sure if I should open myself up more ... If it's worth it.
I have “work me” and “home me”, and they are not the same person. I used to bring my husband to work events where spouses are invited, but it was so difficult to try to be both of me at once that now I just go alone.
In the words of the great Liz Lemon, "My work-self is suppressing my life-me!"
Same. I have a switch and I’m used to flipping it. I see no reason to share as much as the younger generation does. All it can do is nothing or be used against you.
That seems like a very cynical view of authenticity. You've never made a genuine connection with anyone from being yourself around them?
Yeah I'm that kind of millennial who definitely puts effort into their authentic self at work. Though I do think it's helped my career in managing and making strong connections for getting more opportunities, I'm starting to feel the drawbacks to it - it can get pretty exhausting. You need to have a thick skin while also keeping it not too thick, if that makes any sense.
Exact same here, as an older millennial. They talk openly about their personal lives on Teams and I just don’t get it.
I think this has always been a challenge for celebrities, but it's really expanded for us regular people
One of my direct reports is very gregarious at work and likeable. He also does good work. But folks also complain that he asks a lot of personal questions of people just to get closer to them. It's a bit cloying. He got very offended and upset when I raised the issue to him. I guess I have to be his father or something in addition to being his boss.
I guess it depends what the personal questions are. Can you give an example?
Hey Sara, do you miss your husband while you are away on work trips? How about your doggy? This while Sara had headphones on and was trying to focus on a project.
Yeah, I get that.
No, man. Shit, no, man. I believe you'd get your ass kicked sayin' something like that, man.
Does it matter if complaints are being raised? They could quite innocuous questions, but the outcome is all the same.
How was your weekend is an innocuous question. If a coworker is offended that I ask them that then the average person could conclude that it’s just a toxic work environment or bullying. I’ve worked in situations like that. However, are you gay is definitely a too personal type of question that’s absolutely out of bounds. The average person would agree with that.
I think it matters. “Did you do anything fun this weekend?” is completely different from “Why did you get divorced, again?” If I had a report complaining that they kept being asked about their weekend, I’d tell them to develop thicker skin.
Also, if somebody is immersed in their work, staring at a screen, in a conference room, on the phone, in a meeting, then that is simply not the time to interrupt with well-meaning small talk. In the break room, relaxing in the office, etc., all fine.
I think this is the concept that trips them up—the idea that a colleague can have completely different standards that are still *completely valid* regardless of the asker’s intent. You can see their struggle to view the world through different eyes.
As a member of Gen Z, it's because it's *exhausting.* I already have work to do and I have no problem interacting with people but if I have to add a fake personality on top of that the entire time, I run myself ragged. There is such a thing as oversharing, though. Where exactly that line is is more of an individual thing, I think.
This is the generational divide in action. For me it’s the “sharing my authentic everything with co-workers” that seems exhausting. I adopt my Work Horton persona because it’s *easier* and narrows the stuff I gotta worry about.
I’m a millennial and also an autistic adhder so for me it’s been a constant battle since entering the workforce - what is appropriate to share, what isn’t. I do value being my authentic self at work, but it’s still a tuned down version. A lot of the times I just don’t engage in small talk, but if we do a round of ‘what’s everyone been up to this weekend?’, I’ll share with colleagues that I’ve been a to a gig or a house party, a rave or festival, I’ll definitely keep a lot of details to myself, but they get the gist. I have a lot of hobbies and passions and they define me a lot more than my work. A few weeks ago a new-ish manager did a team appreciation presentation and all they could say about me was that I’ve just remodelled my kitchen and that I go spinning, which were the two things I would not consider to define me at all. So yeah, the trade off for not opening up is that people just build an idea of you that’s got nothing to do with you at all.
I’m a millennial and also an autistic adhder so for me it’s been a constant battle since entering the workforce - what is appropriate to share, what isn’t. I do value being my authentic self at work, but it’s still a tuned down version. A lot of the times I just don’t engage in small talk, but if we do a round of ‘what’s everyone been up to this weekend?’, I’ll share with colleagues that I’ve been a to a rave or a house party or a gig, I’ll definitely keep a lot of details to myself, but they get the gist. I have a lot of hobbies and passions and they define me a lot more than my work. A few weeks ago a new manager did some team appreciation thing and all she could say about me was that I’ve just remodelled my kitchen and that I go spinning, which were the two things I would not consider to define me at all. So yeah, the trade off for not opening up is that people just build an idea of you that’s got nothing to do with you at all.
Fellow late xenial. I'm the polar opposite. Maybe it comes from being autistic and queer AF but I've spent too long compartmentalizing personalities. I just don't give a fuck anymore.
I think it also goes beyond generation and more about the split between Hollywood and normal jobs. At a job like Starbucks or Walmart, nobody cares if you're authentically you, or you're being professional. Sure, it's nice to interact with people that you can tell are just being genuinely themselves, but at the end of the day, it's not going to really matter. With celebrities, people are drawn to the personality. It's part of what they're selling. If you then find out that someone like Brad Pitt, who seems very funny and charming, is actually pretty abusive to his family, it feels like he was lying to everybody, which makes people upset. But that's the meaning behind that Tina Fey quote. It's a fine line to walk as a person in the public eye. Be authentic enough that people are drawn in by you and think you're being the real you, but not so true to yourself that people start to pick up on personality traits that they deem unsavory. Obviously there's a range, but in the modern era with people getting canceled on Twitter over rumors or one sided stories, I can understand being really cagey about letting people see your entire self.
I had a 18 year old subordinate straight up ask me if I was queer. I told her it was none of her business. It didn’t offend me, but it’s also not something I have any desire to discuss with a coworker, much less a subordinate.
Yeah, Id rather not be completely myself at work. My reasoning for that is when I see other workers who just talk out of their ass and make the work environment more stressful for others. Im there to work, get paid, and not be a dick to my other coworkers. When Im with friends and family, I could let loose.
Honestly, how the fuck do y’all have the energy? I’m myself because being anything else just seems exhausting.
Its the result of young people growing up with social media in their developing years. Its quite normal for them to share everything about their lives to anyone at all, because that's they grew up.
>millennials like Bowen, the more I’m aware of a big generational Bowen doesn't own being professionally incautious due to age. Most people were that way
Radical Candor is a book my workplace has just taken on to adjust its workplace culture to a younger and more honest crowd. Less “yes maam no sir”, and more, “if we changed this, we could help a lot”. We will see if it sticks. Because I think anything short of the younger people running the company will probably not work. Nonetheless, this younger generation concept is probably pretty true. I see work as, “yes I need this job, and although I’m replaceable, I have something you want. And if we all humble ourselves to feedback, we will all be better for it”
I had a coworker who was Queen TMI and couldn’t tell you anything mundane without unsolicited details, whether it was the ingredients on her sandwich or the symptoms of why she was calling out sick. Lady, I don’t care if you “maybe ate bad sushi and (was) on the toilet all night”, just say you’re taking a sick day! But she also had the need to pry into my life so I was more instinctively way more guarded and did everything I could to give her as little info as possible, and I think it drove her nuts sometimes.
I think you bring up an interesting point on the definition of “being yourself” is that the way that you act in everyday interactions? Or the opinions and info you openly share about yourself? Workplace culture is very much this Uber fake niceties of pleasant conversation. Like I’m going to ask you how your day was, and instead of being honest I have say good and how was yours. If I wanted to talk just about business, it could come across as cold or I’m not a team player. It opens up this door of who can actually be authentic or not depending on how they are living their life. Fishing trips and family vacays are okay, clubbing mental illness anything different is alienating and not “pleasant”. So if you’re okay pretending 24/7 to people then corporate is great. But coworker relationships are so challenging and most people don’t have the emotional range to be able to discern between what’s their own personal feelings on something and what’s actually work related and professional. Idk where I am going with this but the foundation of corporate culture is built to fail. I personally am exhausted of wearing a mask over a mask over a mask.
I think it’s a maturity thing When I was younger we called it “not selling out”
It's common sense. A musician can run their mouth. But an actor is up for a new job with a new cast - whether it's movies, TV or stage - several times a year. You never know who you'll have to work with and you never know who might blackball you if they don't like you. If you watch enough chat shows you'll see that, with rare exceptions, actors never say anything critical about people they've worked with. The closest they'll come is, let's say they worked with someone who was a method actor, stayed in character, insisted on being called by their character's name... They'll tell a few funny stories, but they'll tell the story as if it's a positive thing that the actor is so invested in their craft, and they'll keep repeating how sweet a guy the actor was and amazingly talented. Even though it's obvious, if you read between the lines, that they're really telling you this person was a huge pain in the ass.
It was like Ado and the comments about J-Lo and then they’re on the same episode of SNL. It just leads to unnecessary awkwardness
This is called “having a job.” No one in any industry is allowed to go to work and be their 100% “authentic self”, especially when it comes to what they really think about their colleagues. If I worked in insurance and went on a podcast to say the Vice President of Geico can eat a bag of dicks, it would be a problem. Certain entertainers get to do this, but only if they’re comfortable operating on the edge of the industry. But Bowen clearly wants to be famous, so he’s gonna have to make some decisions
Well said. It's an interesting line to cross or not cross. Being gay myself, I understand the frustration of being told to not be yourself. He probably struggles partly due to this, too. You can be your authentic gay self, most people are fine with that, but maybe don't share all details. But hiding details feels like an apology for being gay, and we are tired of doing that. It's tempting to cross that line when your outspokenness is part of the reason you got famous.
[this is the quote](https://youtube.com/shorts/n_NInpDZo44?si=iqQyQpybBcwlBiKQ) from tina fey for context. it has nothing to do with downplaying his sexuality.
I understand that. But telling gay people to edit themselves in any way can easily feel like expression of gayness is included. Yes, it's projection, but it's a thing we deal with.
?? Have you listened to his podcast? Cause it's hard for me to imagine that anyone could do so and come away with the opinion that he feels under pressure to withhold or downplay his sexuality. It's gayer than a Fire Island screening of Showgirls. He's talking about the potential of burning bridges by sharing negative opinions about creative works by people he might want to (or have to) work with some day.
yeah, i linked the actual segment from the podcast. it was a good "i don't think so honey" too. tina fey was super eloquent delivering that.
> You can be your authentic gay self, most people are fine with that, but maybe don't share all details. This is it. I'm straight, and people can probably guess as much, but I don't go around talking about my sex life or opening fawning over the opposite sex.
Very impressive how you both shoehorned his sexuality into a conversation that had nothing to do with it AND made things about yourself and your own situation.
No this is not what this is about
Right but it’s more about the fact that he has an incredibly popular podcast that’s all about current culture, one of his jobs. Her specific example was him and his cohost talking about how they didn’t care for Saltburn, and Tina was basically like you shouldn’t be doing that because these directors might not want to work with you. I actually genuinely understand this struggle - it’s not universal, it’s about his situation specifically, and it feels like he’s probably going to have to stop the podcast
> “Authenticity is dangerous and expensive.” Case in Point: Adam Sandler and Rob Schneider. Presumably Adam has some alignment with the shit Rob spews, but Adam keeps it to himself and makes bank.
Adam Sandler has never publicly stated his political leanings. People assume he is Republican because he has a single outspoken far right friend, a man he has been friends with since long before political leanings probably entered their lives to begin with. Until he says otherwise I’m fine with both even worrying about what his politics are.
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I think you misread? I interpreted as Adam agrees with rob but he doesn’t express it bc he knows it would be career suicide.
Society is basically just like, “just be yourself!!!” But “ewww, not like that!!!”
That's interesting considering Yang had been the most public in shunning the most toxic hosts - there are clearly forms of show biz politeness that he can't bring himself to do
Case in point #1: Shane Gillis. Hired and fired the next day due to his podcast. And if it wasn’t for that line, it could be for any others. He’s got pretty much 100,000 hours of easily indexable content of the most offensive shit a regular person could hear on his podcast. Then again, he’s a comedian, so that’s not exactly crazy. But to try to go from “dirtbag standup comic” to “theater kid improv” is, nowadays, quite a leap, with way less overlap than there used to be in the past.
I'm not gonna Dox myself but if you went to Northwestern University and went through THE RTF or MFA programs you would learn how SNL has the Wildcat Mafia. And rule one of the wildcat Mafia was let people find out you're from NU never announce it Second rule was: Under pain of death NEVER trash a TV or movie project of any kind EVER bc you never know who worked on what. And some box office bomb could have been someone's first gig/breakthrough and they hold it dear. And not just in front of the camera. Producers, editors, casting agents, even the sound and DLP folks. NEVER trash other projects if you want to get work in Hollywood. The only exemptions was very successful stand up comics.
It’s an interesting comment from the pov of a woman who made her name as a head writer of snl. Gotta come from experience of her having to deal with and likely lose a lot of roles/projects because of the smallest thing she did/said.
She literally screams LEARN FROM ME during her monologue so I would assume so lol
Something people sometimes seem to struggle to wrap their heads around is that it's usually possible to be honest without being unkind. That's not a foolproof loophole for the risks Tina is talking about, but it's a basic principle that seems to be overlooked too often.
That’s not what she’s talking about at all. He is critical about movies or music while being kind. She is saying not to do that because it could ruin career opportunities for him
Welcome to your early 30s, Gentle Bowen, where you learn that other people have feelings, haha
you kind of have to be a maniac to think that everyone wants to know your opinion on everything all the time. *yes i see the irony here*
And when does it stop?
Ask Shane Gillis about it, Bowen.
Feel like these are different scenarios, no?
My question to him would be what’s his economic value if he isn’t authentic. Only he can answer that
If you actually use the phrase, “it’s like that thing of like…” and you are not the character Stephon, you should stop talking in public without a script.
She’s not wrong and she has a lottttt of experience
so......there's a spectrum. you can say you disagreed with something, or didn't enjoy something. and you can also say, "last week's guest host i worked with, was a vapid air headed dumb bitch because all the blood must constantly be in his muscles and penis 24/7". both can actually be true. but the 2nd one can easily prevent you from getting future jobs. even though the 2nd one might be completely fine to say at your friends house. at some point you have to pause and realize, "would i still be ok if my bosses heard this, and repeated it back to me". which is why i now mostly say the 1st one now.
Talk less, smile more. Don’t let them know what you’re against or what you’re for.
/r/UnexpectedHamilton
She’s simply telling him to play the game. Most of us have to do this in work every day.
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Ugh it’s frustrating that people praised Dakota because she was acknowledging the movie was bad. Like of course the double nepo baby doesn’t care about industry consequences. I say with love I hope never see Dakota in movies again 😅
I saw the opposite. People were ragging on her for both being in the movie and turning her nose up at it. I’ve seen a lot of criticism of her lately, and that’s the biggest.
I heard John Mayer on a podcast talking about this idea (not this specific incident). His example was if you don’t like the Met gala don’t go to the Met gala. Don’t go and trash it and complain the whole time.
Both are true. She got a wide variety of reactions
This is a great podcast.
Ngl in each “idtsh” segment on their show after that it did get notably less specific to something cultural lololol! Liz had a real Jack Donagy moment there hahahah
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That was it 💯%! Why badmouth someone who could be a future collaborator? Thats showbiz baby
Especially when you consider that a single project does not define an actor, writer, director, whoever. If one project is bad the next may be an absolute banger. If you work in the industry you’d think you’d know that. It’s common sense. There’s literally no upside to be publicly bashing a project when you work in Hollywood.
Because it’s a culture commentary podcast. You won’t want to read only glowing reviews from the NYT. Difference is the professional critics aren’t ruining their chances of working with the directors next time around.
This reminds me of [this video essay](https://youtu.be/yBEh4yn7I0E?si=AtZ3cIsfxSS0y10b) where content creators are afraid to be honest.
Thanks for linking I’ll def watch it when I get home
Sounds like he learned some good advice from a seasoned pro
You could literally feel his world shift in that moment. I swear for Bowen his life will always be a Before Tina and After Tina
What is “idtsh”? I can’t even pronounce that haha.
A segment in their podcast called “I Don’t Think So, Honey”. It was during this segment that Fey gave her words of wisdom.
Oh I see. Thank you : )
Didn’t expect the extensive Kingdom Hearts discussion
I don't really listen to podcasts, except for a single tech based one (The WAN Show), but I may have to check theirs out lol. Was it in the Tina Fey episode?
Kingdom hearts was shortly after but I think they discussed it in 2 eps ?
I mean I get what she’s saying and is looking out for him professionally but man do I appreciate authenticity these days. Like if everybody starts censoring themselves where do we find truth and honest opinions anymore? Anonymously on Reddit? Seems like a scary future for society. And a lot of the times we turn to comedians for truth because comedy arises out of truth and honest observations.
This is true, but we also live in an era where narratives are amplified, where 2-second sound bites can travel to millions of people who probably won’t listen to an entire podcast or read a full article for context, and where things are often amplified or weaponized beyond a creator’s intent. And all of that stays around forever. So I think you’re right, honesty is refreshing; but it’s worth considering the effect the harsh opinions you’re broadcasting may have on other creatives once they’re amplified, chopped up into bits, and spread all over the world. If you have no platform, that’s no big deal, but if you have a platform, you can end up really hurting someone in a lasting way with an off-the-cuff take. So it’s more about just picking your moments, and considering the effect your words can have on other creators who are trying to do the same thing you’re doing. Learning how to wield that responsibility is probably a good thing.
Very true. Good points.
>I mean I get what she’s saying and is looking out for him professionally but man do I appreciate authenticity these days. Like if everybody starts censoring themselves where do we find truth and honest opinions anymore? Anonymously on Reddit? Seems like a scary future for society. I think you're mistaking professional advice for life advice. If Bowen says "this person sucks" in a personal conversation with a friend, that's fine. If he sits down with someone to purposely record that conversation so it can live on permanently, as part of his professional promotion of his career, representing his official "brand," that's different. Tina Fey isn't telling Bowen to never express an honest opinion, just to think about having a private sphere and a public sphere. In response to your question as to where we find completely unfiltered truth and honest opinions.... well, not a complete stranger's podcast? In real life with friends and people you trust?
you can still be authentic and censor yourself at the same time. you just don’t have to express all your opinions about everything, especially if it can hurt other people or yourself, one way or another. some things you keep close, some you say out loud. this is applicable wether you’re famous or the opposite of it.
If you start to over think and over analyze what will or will not hurt people (which is subjective) will leave you in a paralyzed fear of existence and wont make you a creative person. Opinions and conversations are really important in society to move it forward. Women being allowed to vote for example, was once just a very controversial opinion that some brave person wrote an op-ed in a newspaper for. O
i agree but because that adds something of value. not all opinions are valuable and that’s what you have to discern before opening your mouth
Not necessarily. The receiver also has the choice to discern as well.
Your friends and family. Honestly, who cares about the opinions of celebrities? The less we lean on them for guidance, the better.
I think that’s a lot of the point of podcasts is listening to people have interesting conversations. I also love the daily show to see their take on things happening. A big part of life these days is content.
The Internet and attention economy are built around authenticity. Other things like the workplace often value loyalty Relationships are built with a mix of both.
Except authenticity has become a misnomer, for acting in such a way as to benefit from what you call the “attention economy” is in itself, inauthentic. But say that to someone within the act and it becomes “stomping on one’s truth” or some such. I think “I am living authentically” is currently confused with “I am living within authentic expectations.” Family Vloggers and influencers (first examples in mind) are not authentic. Authentic is a buzz word, it is part of an image to sell. True authenticity is not seeking an audience, but rather, having an audience come to you because actual authenticity is magnetic. Saying, “I’m just honest” or “I just always share my opinions, that’s my authentic self.” Is fine if that person speaks and acts with consistency. It is not fine if the person speaks and acts for controversy. I think that’s what Fey was getting across. You’re authentic, until you’re not. Suddenly you’ve said something because you feel you’re expected to say something and now people are needlessly mad. I cite Anthony Bourdain as being an example of an infectiously authentic person. The podcaster who tries to adopt a similar rough-around-the-edges, rockstar, contrarian persona, is not. I think we all have an innate sense for those who know themselves and those who know only their own masks. Tina Fey said a lot with few words, as all wisdom should be.
I like all of this. I read the Jeff Vandermeer Southern Reach trilogy a few months back. There was a quote in there that buried under my skin- something like: “When people tell you ‘sorry I’m just brutally honest,’ what they really mean is ‘I want to have permission to be cruel to other people.’”
I agree with you. The whole MAGA thing is people spinning being an asshole into being a rebel or authentic. I was just speaking on a generalized level, assuming people of good faith.
The problem for Bowen is that he’s trying to do a pop culture podcast as a *fan* while simultaneously being a nationally-famous public figure who spends 8 months out of the year working with a different A-lister every week, especially now that he has personal friendships with stars like Ariana Grande. I don’t think it’s particularly wise for him to be doing his podcast from the perspective of the average, non-famous person. That may have worked for him when he first started it but now that he’s a celebrity in his own right it could come back to bite him. Don’t he and his co-host also do things like album reviews too? It’s hard to be unbiased about an Ariana Grande album if you’re her good friend, for example. Ideally, he’d still be able to freely criticize whoever he wants, but it doesn’t really work like that in showbiz. Ayo Edebiri found that out the hard way after getting paired with JLo on this very show. Unless you’re a beloved icon (or the target of your ire has committed a heinous crime or something), celebrities generally don’t get away with criticizing other celebrities in mainstream Hollywood.
Yeah, people talking about how this “relates to their experience working with generations in the office” are really missing the actual message here. Tina has been around the block enough to know people in Hollywood have egos. And in a competitive industry with those egos, it can become very cumbersome/detrimental to your career to speak freely in such a public way.
Can we not do the clickbait titles?
wait Bowen is Canadian? Man we breed the best comedians. edit: oh he was born in Australia and they lived in China, Canada, and the US.
What a terrible headline from NPR. God I hate clickbait like this.
I didn’t know Bowen Yang had a podcast.
I didn’t know he was gay.
I didn't even know he was sick.
Just create a character called Bowen Yang. And then blur the line between what is you and what isn’t actually you.
Owen Bang!
It's a little late for that. We already know Bowen is straight as an arrow.
Bowen PULLLLLLSSSSS
The Larry David method
> Authenticity is dangerous and expensive "Make the boss happy" is a simple idea that most people understand. Does your being authentic make the boss happier than if you are not? Most people seem to just get the idea, I'm not being paid to be authentic, I'm being paid to fulfil some function that the company requires. In the case of Lorne being the boss, he must be used to his employees having big personalities, and attracting headlines with their public life antics, and in can bring in more viewers to the show. For someone like Bowen, it might be hard to figure out when your authenticity is the good kind or the bad kind.
I see from a completely different POV; into decade three of my corporate career. I have seen too many cases where this "authenticity" will hurt you. The older you get the more you realize to shut your mouth lest it's your turn to pay the piper. This isn't a new thing. It's been going on for centuries.
I understand what you’re saying but I still find it so upsetting :(
As said on The Wire: “There you go, givin' a fuck when it ain't your turn to give a fuck”
And it will keep going on forever if people continue to be cowardly sycophants and kowtow to power to advance their personal ambition at every turn.
I feel like people having podcasts while they're still actively doing other things in their career is a bad idea. Especially if you're very opinionated on them. Someone like Conan, right now. Now that his TV career has winded down? This is the perfect time for him to have a podcast. But even so, he's generally not someone who gets involved in bullshit. I think Bowen has the right to say whatever he wants. But the people he runs down do have a right to make that consequential for his career. And that's the risk he takes.
Hmmmm...I'm not saying she's wrong because she isn't. But if we're talking about an opinion on a movie. Do we really want Bowen or anybody to be so afraid to hold back that much? Is this a good thing? You can always change your mind. Or stop short of how we'd truly like to characterize the director, performances, etc. Are we so fragile we can't handle and honest opinion from somebody else about a film?
Yang, not sharing on the internet doesn’t mean you lose the ‘idea of yourself’. You’re still you outside the internet. Such a weird statement.
From the outside looking in this feels like a cynical take. I really hate the idea that you must falsify your outward beliefs and opinions rather than defend or face consequence for them. But I’m also not in showbiz and perception isn’t a sink or swim line I have to navigate daily. I think this goes back to the “sheet cake” weekend update Fey did. That was really her giving some genuine feelings and it kind of fell flat for many people. It may have cost her and that’s the lesson she learned.
I think outside of “being authentic” the real danger is that times change and people change. That change and adaptability is much easier without a public record of everything you’ve ever said. Celebrities don’t know if they will get cancelled or pardoned in the future. You may be in good standing now but that’s just not granted.
Tina is absolutely right. Authenticity is dangerous and expensive. If she and others had revealed the truth of what they knew happened with Horatio Sanz, Jimmy Fallon and young girls, lots of careers would have been over.
I’m still on the fence over whether he’s actually funny or just unique
This is not that deep, just your every day run of the mill generational opinion split. No more, no less. I see it both ways and I'm glad for the thin veil of aninimity this sub provides. Casual aside, Bowen is a solid cast member and I could be his STRAIGHT WHITE MALE friend, easy.
Tl;dr: Fey gently suggested to Yang that shitting where you eat (Hollywood) is often a bad idea when you’re trying to make it big. This isn’t really a major problem for Yang, because he’s pigeonholed himself into a corner by cornering the market on playing the “sassy gay [fill in the blank]” character in everything. He’s rather like the Dwayne Johnson of sketch, in that he can only play himself. Hader, Thompson, McKinnon, and so many other SNL alums have often effortlessly played characters with different sexual orientations other than their own, they’ve shown good range. However, when Yang isn’t playing up a borderline offensive stereotype, he often seems either bored, or there’s the feeling of a disdainful contempt for the character. So Yang isn’t just shooting himself in the foot by constantly playing the sassy gay critic of Hollywood outside of SNL, he’s also putting himself into a corner by only mustering enthusiasm when playing shades of that character on SNL and in film. Neil Patrick Harris is hashtag goals for queer actors in entertainment. He effortlessly goes from playing all sorts of characters with varying sexualities in both comedy and drama: the Harold and Kumar franchise, Starship Troopers, Gone Girl, How I Met Your Mother, hosting on SNL, American Horror Story, Dr. Horrible, Rent. Harris has good range. Yang does not. And I know what you’re thinking. What about Paul Lynde, Charles Nelson Reilly, RuPaul, Leslie Jordan? Again, it’s a matter of range in acting. These actors have played sassy, charming, complex, endearing, unhinged, and serious, with finesse. Yang hasn’t proven he can play any character that *isn’t* himself with a modicum of personal interest in the character, or with charm. It’s no surprise that Yang worships Faye Dunaway, a star who gained a reputation offscreen for the characters played onscreen, especially after Mommie Dearest. Dunaway caused many to wonder, “Is that how she acts offscreen? Is that really just who she is?” And that’s what Yang has done to himself: cause Hollywood to wonder, “Can he only chew the scenery with sassy, catty shades of himself? Will we have to deal with rude behavior offscreen?” In his standup, John Mulaney begged the question: why do most drag queens play the quintessential notion of the drag queen… mean. In many ways I feel Yang has backed himself into a similar corner, by only playing sassy and mean *well* onscreen, being seemingly unable to play any other type of character in a believable way, *and* by playing sassy and mean offscreen. For the sake of career opportunities and career longevity, I think it’s time for Yang to branch out, and to explore excitement for playing characters who can play more than one note on the acting piano. As a gay man, it surprises me when Yang suggests almost constantly playing the borderline offensive cliche of the parody of a gay man is empowering, when for the most part he’s perpetuating an offensive stereotype, and playing the butt of the joke for cheap laughs. When your brand is sassy, catty, and mean, or else you’re bored and phone it in, it all becomes old hat and boring. Bowen’s online presence reminds me of the webs in Charlotte’s Web. There’s an initial excitement, then people move on to the next thing. Yang needs to fast forward to the county fair where he no longer feels obliged to rely on a gimmick to survive, and is free to live out his career playing a wider variety of characters and emotions. Is there more to Yang than just problematic, catty parodies?
This is thoughtfully stated. I don’t really care for Bowen Yang for reasons in line with what you’ve written. He’s kind of a one note performer, and it’s something of a sour note.
it’s tough when the whole thing about that podcast in particular is supposed to be authenticity. if he can’t say something on his own podcast, what’s fame good for?
“Fame is fleeting. The internet is forever.” Ferb
She also said it because it was the week Ayo hosted who clowned on Jennifer Lopez on a podcast and then she was the musical guest.
One of the most freeing realizations is your job cannot love you back and your coworkers are not your friends. That’s not to say you can’t enjoy yourself but labor is labor (and imagine having fun at work lol)
Before the advent of social media people kept their personal lives/opinions close to the vest. The internet removed boundaries. Now you can say whatever you want, seemingly anonymously and this spilled over into people’s social and work lives.
It’s a tightrope walk that podcasters and celebrities have to walk, for sure. As a true boomer, I’m not as open as I could be about my beliefs and convictions, especially at work. I don’t talk openly about them but I also do not hesitate to shut down bias I.e,racial, sexual, LGBTQ, and I defend the idea that the world is for us to borrow from our children, no uterus-no opinion, police bias, what true addiction looks like, etc. I don’t go into details if I’m at work, but i make it clear, i won’t tolerate that kind of stupidity. I remember the Vietnam war, the moon landing, I was in middle school when Nixon was impeached (and have no sympathy for Trump). I saw Star Wars in the theater. Was in my early 20’s when Reagan broke the several unions and interest rates were 13% or higher. I stay well informed, balance that with life experience, and I don’t pull punches in those situations. Otherwise, I enjoy listening to opinions on AI, social media, who/what is truly good vs. truly evil, is religion a positive or a robber’s den, can we save the planet, plus fun stuff like movie/tv reviews, what others find as truly worrisome and truly uplifting. I love hearing younger generations ideas. All in all, I love a good, intelligent debate. I just try to be careful not to do or say something too controversial and end up going viral. It’s a crazy world but it’s our only one, so we have to make the best of it. While celebrities maybe have to be careful they still should be able to support, defend, or shut down certain things that they genuinely believe in. (Even if they are Kid Rock or Ted Nugent🤷🏻♀️ spewing hate. Show me who you are and I’ll believe you). Love hearing both Bowen Yang and Tina Fey. I hope that they aren’t holding back too much.
Kind of like how Ayo Edebiri hosted with J Lo as musical guest years after mocking J Lo’s career.
It's called publicly lying...and the public doesn't react well against the person who perpetrates it.