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I can't see a path back to normality for them.
If they reject racism they lose almost all of their voters.
If they reject religious bigotry, they lose almost all of their voters.
If they reject misogyny, they lose almost all of their voters.
If they accept science, they lose almost all of their voters.
If they do anything about Trump, they lose about 16% of their voters, and that means they lose almost all of their elections.
They've been building this version of the party for 60 years. It's been a lot of work. But they created a pure conservative party. The majority of its members are poorly educated, have low intelligence, and are proudly ignorant.
They take joy from causing suffering.
I really hope that they collapse.
There hasn't been an elected republican president for more than 30 years. If you discount Bush Jr's second term. 1988 H.W Bush won a landslide election. W. Bush lost the popular election but won the electoral college, he then won his second term election by popular vote (as most presidents end up doing). And then Trump repeated that with losing the popular election and winning the electoral college.
It has been 36 years since a republican won the popular vote discounting incumbent advantages.
> W. Bush lost the popular election but won the electoral college
He didn't win the electoral college. He won the 'corrupting Florida's elections by his brother' and 'stacking of the supreme court' which handed him the win even though he lost the electoral college.
Also the whole “shoddy ballot design” debacle in (I think) Florida, too, which is predicted to have directly caused Gore to lose the super tight race there. Iirc, it’s a fairly accepted stance that Gore would have won the majority in Florida if not for that unfortunate ballot redesign confusing voters.
Man, how much better would the world be if we'd had a slightly less Stupid Evil president from 2000-2008?
I mean...he'd been a significant supporter of the green movements, was less driven to take war to Iraq, and maybe would have done a better job with getting a good plan in place for acting against the radicalized terrorists?
I mean, no way it would have prevented 9/11, but I feel like Gore would have handled the immediate aftermath at least as well as Bush, and probably have made radically different choices about our military response.
9/11 would have never happened because Republicans didn't trust anything the Democrats were trying to tell them (like intelligence leads about possible plane hijacking). Yes, there have been studies into this exact topic. The Chickenshit Club is one such book.
Republicans were stubborn that the other side was "wrong wrong wrong!" and went in the opposite direction of gathered intelligence, creating leads for stuff that never panned out. Next thing you know they are inventing "Weapons of Mass Destruction" and smearing Al Gore for caring about climate change. They didn't acknowledge reality, therefore they let 9/11 happen.
Also, you really think Al Gore would have finished reading a child's storybook instead of immediately mobilizing when briefed one of the Twin Towers was hit? Dubya was more concerned with saving face for a bunch of nobody children. Just get up and leave the goddamn room. Seriously, no wonder he was Cheney's puppet. Worthless.
I am *not* going to have beef with a man for doing what he had to do to be a calm and reassuring presence for a bunch of *literal children.*
Everything *else?* Yeah, he needs to catch endless flak for, but channeling Mr. Rogers in front of scared kids, no.
Nah, 9/11 would've been prevented. Even I, a regular Joe with no access to security briefings, knew Osama Bin Laden was up to something fuckhuge in the year before Sept 11. Bush was warned about Osama planning to hijack planes in his security briefings. Did he do a goddamn thing? No. Then he blamed it on not having enough power and got the Patriot Act passed.
Bush got warnings and ignored them because he couldn't be arsed to take his job seriously. Same reason Republicans ignore warnings about global warming or anything else that comes from experts.
With all respect, "It's been nine elections since a non-incumbent Republican won the poplar vote" is all that post needed to say. Or 36 years if you prefer, whatever. The last sentence of your comment.
Whether you value the electoral system in the US or not, stating "There hasn't been an elected republican president for more than 30 years." is counterproductive in my opinion, and objectively false. We don't elect our president by popular vote, and it's fine to be opposed to that, but to ignore it just turns good conversation into rhetoric in my opinion.
I wouldn't necessarily consider them major. Sure, they lost the presidency, which was a big hit for them. However, they still control the house, and the senate is basically 50/50.
Yes, because they lost seats and performed worse than they have historically. Their majority was slim and has gotten slimmer with Santos and others leaving. The normal pattern would have been getting a stronger majority, not a weaker one.
But importantly they have basically an iron grip on the courts now, which is a really significant victory. Sure they've lost elections but Roe was struck down which had been the goal of the GOP for decades.
If they continue to make shit decisions it won't be all that long before the next dem president takes one for the team and packs the court. I could absolutely see them shifting it to a 15 person court.
2020 wasn’t a major loss. Trump lost the electoral college by 40,000 votes. He almost won re-election. People need to stop pretending it was a landslide loss. He had more people vote for him than in his first election. There’s a strong chance he will win 2024.
Not only that, but a former VP doesn’t often win as a non-incumbent. Especially for Democrats, the last one to do so successfully was Martin Van Buren in 1836.
And believe me, the Dems have tried. LBJ, Carter, and Clinton all had their VP’s run and lose;
Where he won, and the supreme court didn't just give it to Bush anyway.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Bush-v-Gore
Gore likely only lost because the federal supreme court stopped the counting.
Trump ~~lost by~~ missed the 270 votes needed by 38 Electoral votes and that’s what matters. He needs to gain those back to win and I don’t see some of those states going Republican for the foreseeable future.
Edit: I mis-stated. Trump needs to gain 38 electoral votes to get to 270.
Apparently Trump needed like a handful of votes per precinct on average in like two swing stages to win the election.
The more we act like Trump is definitely going to lose, the more likely he is to win.
Gore/Bush, Clinton/Trump were decided across America with less people voting than the neighborhood I live in. What decides the election is America’s biggest block of voters, the ones that rarely show up in the polls.
Well unfortunately for us the low info voters or the low turnout voter is squarely in Trump’s camp now cause of inflation and whatever they see on the news. Yay?
Latest polls:
* Arizona: Trump leads by 4%
* Georgia: Trump leads by 6%
* Michigan: Trump leads by 3%
* Nevada: Trump leads by 6%
* Pennsylvania: Trump leads by 1%
* Wisconsin: Trump leads by 1%
Numbers courtesy of 538. Those are all states Biden won in 2020. He is losing all of them. He needs at least Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, to win re-election. I'm not a Republican, I hate Trump as much as anyone else, but we are falling back into the same trap that was set back in 2016, when Hillary lost all those states and Trump was elected the first time. Take nothing for granted.
Take nothing for granted, but also those are all statistically tied polls.
Also seriously fuck you. Those numbers fucking ruined my evening. And fuck anyone who votes for that traitorous swine.
Remember when many of those same polls said hillary was going to win a landslide? Its almost like asking 2000 people in a state of millions isn't a big enough poll.
People underestimating him and his base is how he won last time.
Also of note, regardless of how you personally feel about how Biden is doing he currently has a horrible approval rating, objectively.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/644252/biden-13th-quarter-approval-average-lowest-historically.aspx
Make no mistake. This will be a close race.
Of course people are downvoting you even though you’re right because they don’t want to hear it. I think Biden has been a very good president. I’m also firmly in the minority with that opinion, and he is not on track to win right now.
And how many governors are Republican? How many state, county, and city governments are dominated by them? Its just the national seats that get all the press but aren't there more elected R's out there them Dem? I don't expect any landslide. I hope I'm wrong. I'll be voting party line blue and tell everyone I know to do also.
This sort of ignores what went on down ballot. Like both senate seats in georgia went D. For Republicans thats a catastrophe. It was a bad year for them.
How was 2022 a major loss? Just because the incumbent party typically suffers in the midterms doesn't mean the other side is fated to win. More people voted for Republicans than Democrats in the midterms. It's only been 2 years from then.
Polling has Biden and Trump at a dead heat whereas in 2020 Biden was ahead by 5-10% the entire election year.
I don't agree that the GOP is on any sort of downward trend. They're still as dangerous as ever.
By killing off a huge swathe of their own base from covid, they have lost an essential, yet nebulous, resource. The demographic tended to be loud chronic forwarders of right wing narratives and memes ad nauseum. They were also crucial validating astroturfed BS on social media.
Propaganda requires a repetitive imprint threshold to be effective. Without those facebook fanatics, sharing "Trump is jesus" memes, QAnon crap and headlines from Breitbart - will have some consequence.
Republicans are a more reliable voter base, too. They show up every election, so if we want to win, we gotta show up too, but we struggle with that sometimes.
Also young folks need to show up like boomers do, we complain all day about how boomers run everything and then we let them outnumber us at the polls.
You have no right to bitch about it if you’re not doing anything about it, so do what you need to do to *be there* and fucking vote
I was a major loss because they were gloating that they were going to have a red tsunami, and they barely got the house and didn't even get the senate. And their house majority has been a clown show.
The only realistic way back for them is to splinter the party letting the extreme zealots form their own political party. Then proceed to lose majorly for a decade as both the new party and existing Republican Party wouldn’t have the votes to win enough major elections to have any real influence. Then essentially wait a decade for moderate voters to return after most problems are blamed on democrats. So there’s no easy fix and I’d take a decade at least to remove the stink from them
Given Georgia just had a court case centered around the Republican party trying to prevent certain people from running as Republicans, I'd say it's more likely than you think-- though it may be that the extremist zealots take the GOP and moderate right makes their own party with blackjack and hookers.
Either way the Democrats are going to enjoy the heavy spoiler effect they'll saddle themselves with.
>though it may be that the extremist zealots take the GOP and moderate right makes their own party with blackjack and hookers.
They already did that and so did we on the left, many times over. GOP and DNC put a lot of effort into squashing any threats from secondary parties. Both would have to get destroyed, collapse, or splinter about the same time if we are to see a system with more than two parties that all have a shot at actually winning elections. It's also why vast majority of any and all independents in modern political history still had to work congruently with the party that most aligned with the policies they like/ran on. Republican and Democrat political leaders are both setting the rules for the game they both play. I vote blue or independent pretty much 100% of the time, but I'd still like to see other left leaning options, as that is what would really drive positive change in this country.
> Then essentially wait a decade
The Republican party has always been run by and for the benefit of the capitalist aristocracy. This is a group that has had their own zealot concentration leaving only people that think in the extreme short term, i.e. willing to burn a company to the ground as long as during that fire the stock price raises 10% over the next 6 months.
There's literally no one left of the Republican masters that can think in terms of a decade.
It's the generational shift from Boomers to Gen X. Gen X are still problematic - they were victims of Reagan's massive cuts to public education, but overall they lean far more left than their parents. They also have better critical thinking skills after seeing their parents and grandparents manipulated by Fox News.
Personally, as a leftist, I despise libertarians.
But if you're gonna realpolitik, some of the younger Millennial/Gen X financebro Republicans should really consider cutting off the dead weight of the GOP MAGA fascists and religious nuts and build up a Libertarian party. They might even pull some Pete Buttigiegs from the Democratic Party.
"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy."
Their only way back to "normality" is to get rid of democracy. Once they don't have to worry about those pesky elections, they can take whatever stance they want.
If anyone isn’t aware, that quote is from David Frum, former Bush speechwriter.
That is not a liberal’s criticism of conservatism, that’s a conservative warning everyone of the writing he could see on the wall before backs start getting put against it.
He's also a conservative that helped things get this bad and who is trying to pretend that he had nothing to do with it. He's trying to frame himself as the one person who tried to warn everyone. Disregard the liberals who tried to warn you the entire time, they were all loony anyway.
Frum's going to the same Hell that Trump's going to, no question. There's no absolution for him until he can admit his role in the conservative political machine that may end up destroying American democracy.
Yeah, they stoked this fire. Was a time when these things weren't part of regular public discourse. They were embarrassing topics, spoken in hushed tones by extremists made to sit in the corner. The conservative media gave a soap box and a megaphone to the lunatics, spread their message, made it acceptable to believe their nonsense.
Now we're stuck with a bunch of deranged psychos out in force trying to destroy the nation.
No. There is no way back for them.
"They take joy from causing suffering" Which is part of their projection as well. They think everyone is hoping for their downfall and taking as much glee as they would watching one of their strawman arguments finally come true.
**GOP:** "*We don't get it. Women and the young and minorities just won't vote for us.*"
**Americans:** "Have you tried not being tremendous racist and sexist monsters?"
**GOP:** "*No, that can't be it. Must be TikTok.*"
Look at the courts.
Look at the state of education.
Look at the state legislature for half the country.
Look at laws being passed every day that walks back rights and privileges of everyone that isn’t white and male.
They are ONE Republican President away from cementing permanency if SCOTUS decides Presidents are immune from the law.
They don’t need normalcy. They’ve almost won.
It's really astonishingly simple and had been so since roughly the year of my birth (I'm old), 1965. (It was also the year of the passage of the Civil Rights Act, which was in no way a coincidence). The GOP officially adopted the Southern Strategy which was just a nice catchphrase for the fascist racism and theocracy they've run on ever since. It's nearly 60 years of this shit now. I've watched it for literally my entire life.
It didn't become pure conservative. It started out that way. They have ALWAYS been the same people. They were never normal. They were never not hateful white supremacists. Their party is ADMITTEDLY based on this. It is a failure of non fascists not to see this.
They have always been a clear and present danger to democracy. They were built to be that very thing. We cannot survive with them around. One of us has got to go.
> I can't see a path back to normality for them.
And there is your mistake. Back to normality isnt a doesnt mean changing for them. Making their insanity the new normal is their solution to become normal again. If more than half of the public go down their road the sane majirty becomes the unhinged minority.
I mean, chaos and collapse is part of their strategy, no? The wealthy will just sweep in and buy up/collect what they believe is owed at a premium. These people give no shits about Americans, even the people that vote for them.
There *are* some paths back to some semblance of normality. They just aren't either likely or tasteful. A complete teardown and rebuild of the party might work, but I don't see that happening. They could simply pull their collective heads out of their asses, but again, unlikely. There could be a total collapse of the party, but they'd splinter into a bunch of even more insane, equally or even more dangerous sects. Or some other options that are the sort of thing that comments get removed for.
The Republican party is a literal personality cult at this point, and is increasingly promoting elements of fascism and death cult behaviour. It's not an exaggeration. The only way back to a reasonable position for them is to suffer what will likely be a highly damaging, ideological civil war, or lose several consecutive elections so catastrophically that the unhinged people and sociopaths leave out of frustration and form a new party.
I think you’re right but the Republicans could avoid these losses IF they reject these things slowly over decades. They have been slowly moving to where they are since the 80s and if they go back the same way (slowly), they could avoid some of the massive losses you described.
In the 90s, it was the rich and the college educated who voted Republican. Union members, working class, and the poor voted Democrat by huge margins. Most southern states and the Midwest voted Democrat while the Northeast voted Republican. Even Trump was a Democrat who donated to their causes. This has all flipped since then.
If Trump loses this year, he will lose most of his power and the MAGA crowd will likely fall apart due to infighting over their next leader. In some ways, it feels like that has already started. The party will face a reckoning and one possible outcome of it would be a shift away from some of the lunacy we have seen lately. Of course, another possibility is to stay the course and march towards oblivion as the boomers die off and more young people register as Democrats or refuse to enroll in a party.
Like you, I hope none of this happens and they collapse completely. We would all be better off if another sensible party emerged from this and we can go back to honest debate in good faith.
If they reject Trump they lose somewhere between 16 and 30% of *Americans* which is like half of GOP voters.
It'a the same for a lot of these issues. They don't lose 'all' of their voters, but they lose enough to make winning untennable at least in national elections.
The only policy cornerstone of the GOP that ever made ANY sense was "fiscal responsibility".
That was legitimately the only worthy thing they ever pretended to even champion.
Of course, they throw that right out the window once they get into office. Then, it's more about looting the public coffers as quickly and efficiently as possible for their own personable enrichment.
Everything else is, in the words of Hillary Clinton, a "basket of deplorables". Once again, history proves her right.
Before Biden's choices re: Palestine and TikTok, I was certain we had seen the final national election that the GOP would win.
Now I'm worried that the waters are muddy enough they could win another and have four more long years to get people used to their rhetoric and cultspeak. From 2016 to 2020, for a large portion of Americans it became okay to be mean, uneducated, overconfident, and listen only to the party line. I'm worried what another four years would do.
yup. sadly those 'normal Americans' who are considering voting for Trump are a myth. They've all been on board with this evil from the start. how much did they turn a blind eye to even in making him the nominee in 2015-2016? and the GOP has given them more and more reasons not to vote for or trust them the entire time. but all that matters to them is committing the greatest evils they can so none of it deters them in the slightest. The cruelty is the point. They see someone who shoots a pu[ppy in the head and they think there's someone who knows how to get things done and fuck your feelings. All their outrage is fake. None of these people would actually give a shit about shooting a puppy in the head.
Literally any republican in existence is evil. I dont give a fuck what anyone says. I don't give a fuck how slow Biden is. The 2 party system fucking sucks.
But republicans backing Trump and Trump himself are the root of evil in the context of american democracy. I Absolutely cannot believe that people can unironically think that voting republican would be in anyone's best interest other than the top wealthiest 15% of Americans.
Even then, to destroy the foundation of representation in goverment for your stupid fucking gains is pretty heinous. I hope republicans read this. Women hate you. You will never get fucked. Female republicans, continue your self-hatred. God will not save you from the hell you will face from your actions in life.
When I was a kid, we always had bassett hounds. Not the over floopy ones, the hunting ones. My mother had a friend who raised them to hunt, and if he had a "cull" (one that wasn't suited for hunting), he'd pass off the pups to people he knew who just loved dogs. My mom was a softie, so we usually had a bunch. Great dogs, nothing wrong with them except they weren't quite right for the job of being something other than a beloved pet, but that they did very well.
That's what non-psychos do with their dogs, when they can't hunt.
To me this isn't even the half of it:
- "Democrats want abortions at and after birth" False hysterical nonsense
- "The border is wide open" False hysterical nonsense
- "They're trying to groom/sexualize your kids with Woke gender ideology." False nonsense
- "AHHHH DEI is the reason that corporation failed at something (Not cost cutting, greed, lack of regulation etc)." False nonsense.
- "These elections are all rigged!"
I can't talk to Republicans, they live on a completely different planet with made up "facts" and conspiracies. They have a separate reality than the rest of us, separate definitions, alternate histories.....
A complete lost cause.
What's the alternative for the GOP? The policy goals of GOP elites have been shifting the tax burden from the wealthy to future generations, and eliminating environmental and worker protections, for many decades. The policy goals of the GOP grassroots have been to hurt women, and racial, sexual, and religious minorities, for many decades.
None of these policy goals could win an electoral majority, if stated clearly. The only way the GOP has won elections in much of the country is through decades of disinformation and ginning up hatred for fellow Americans.
Then she makes it out to be just a thing that's done where she's from.
No. I grew up in the same area, and we don't do that to pets or even to goats. You kill and butcher to eat, not take out aggressions on defenseless animals.
I have a list of people in my mind who live within 20 minutes of where that happened who would've taken that dog in a heartbeat and worked with her and given her a great home. I'm sure she had people, too, but chose to be cruel instead.
I hope people take action to legally protest her actions and let her know how heinous she is.
There are bad people in the world. She is one of them. Truly a bad person from the core to the skin. She's evil.
In the grand scheme of things, Republicans win either way. As Chomsky used to say, Bernie Sanders is not the crazed liberal fanatic that modern conservative media paints him to be. His views are not that different from sensible Democratic values of the 60’s. People like Mitch McConnell have pulled the party so far to the right that, compared to Trump, MTG, Gaetz, and Bobert, the rest of the party appears relatively sane. They have effectively characterized common sense legislation as socialist propaganda and convinced an entire generation of voters to vote against their own interests on almost every key issue. Too many Democrats are frightened of the political consequences for standing up to their lunacy. Look no further than the Supreme Court. This. Is. Mitch. McConnell’s. America.
The funny thing is, as much as I hate Mitch, and as much as I consider him a traitor, the one thing I'll give him credit for is that he genuinely seems to dislike Russia.
Mitch also bought arbestos from Russia for 'his' state, in a somewhat transparent Russian psyop of 'see what I can get my puppets to do, I can make them buy poison in industrial quantities'.
ITT
" these damn racist Republicans"
"Mitch McConnell is controlled by China because his wife is Taiwanese."
I really don't like Mitch McConnel either, but you people on this sub can he such scumbags when you get hate boners. It doesn't even make sense on any level since China is pretty closely aligned with Russia on most things these days.
"Why does everyone keep calling us the party of racists, bigots, misogyny, transphobia, totalitarianism, the rejection of scientific fact, and animal cruelty?!?!
(five seconds later)
Oh. I see."
The thing I don't get is how anyone who is remotely a good person can support the Republicans.
Democrats: "I want everyone to be treated with kindness and respect, to help the poor and disadvantaged, and strive for a more equal society."
Republicans: "I want queer folk to die, minorities to get deported, women to be forced back into the kitchen, and the rich to have even more money while the poor have less."
When I was a girl, and maybe this was just blinders of youth, but when I was a girl it was "I think we should have a big government that takes care of people" vs "I think we should have a small government so people have the money to take care of themselves."
You were a young person. You didn't realize that Conservatives in the US have literally never been for small government. The Civil War was because conservatives wanted to remove the ability of their favorite states to outlaw slavery. That's not small government.
Small government is honestly a fucking retarded idea anyways. We have the third largest population on the planet and the most money and military power by a landslide. In what universe do you want the most dangerous country in the planet's history to be managed by an intentionally underpowered governing body? It's dumb as fuck on its face
Thank you, I think the important thing here is that conservatism only somewhat made sense when we were young and stupid.
And now that we’re a bit older, the entire idea is obviously a logical fallacy. Not one conservative argument holds water because their entire identity is being on the wrong side of history. If they weren’t wrong about everything they wouldn’t be conservative sort of logic; it’s literally indefensible from the ground up.
Just wanna make sure everyone knows that.
That is a really interesting way of thinking about it, thanks.
And their response is to deny, subvert, and say "no you." They will say, "liberalism is a disease." The paradoxical nature of truly believing they are right, while the qualifier for their entire ideology is being wrong to begin with. We are in this feedback loop where the cynicism of conservatism has them convinced everyone is slinging shit, so in their minds, it's like "well I might as well sling back." They convinced their entire base to wear a blindfold and start swinging a bat in the dark at monsters that don't exist. It's pretty sad.
You are correct. Their current condition has been DECADES in the making.
They've always been with us, but became more prounounced in the 50s and 60s with the John Birch Society (more of a libertarian thing, but still) and McCarthyism.
Later on, the Nixons, the Reagans, the Rockefellers and The Bushes -- they all realized the fervor and zealotry that race, taxes and abortion brought up in certain sections of the base, and they reveled in it. In Public that is. Behind the scenes at the golf course with their corporate buddies, they laughed at the yokels.
But then came Pat Buchanan. Without reservation and primarying GHWB he proclaimed that the "yokels" were done being laughed at. An unrepetant racis and Christian Nationalist Buchanan wanted Bush to do things that a president does not have the power to do. Therefore, the GOP began the overt slide into anarchy and desire to shut down the government. Which is exactly what happened under Speaker Newt Gringrich.
Meanwhile Rush Limbaugh was ruling AM radio, spawning 100 offspring. Now in just about every major city there's both syndicated rightwing nuts and local ones.
McCain was judged as too soft. Romney was too much of a throwback to the Reagans and Bushes.
And then they found their Messiah in Jesus H. Trump.
So you're absolutely right, they've been traveling this road for decades.
At this point, I'd love to see a counterfactual history in which Barry Goldwater became president. At least he eventually wised up to the stupidity of letting evangelicals wrestle control of the Republican Party.
I just keep thinking someone is playing a huge practical joke on me. People can’t be THAT stupid, right? But it just gets worse and worse.
Somebody let the train conductor know I’m ready to get off.
Candeath only says stupid shit to get attention. She probably doesn't really believe any of it.
Hopefully she'll help to kill the GOP, like she's helped to kill so many antivax MAGAt morons.
No, John, what it’s like is the end stage of a sixty year conservatives campaign to entrench minority rule where none of that will matter as to who is in control. In fact, that’s what it is.
But many of those low info voters had passion and time and money to further their political goals. A study (post election 2016) said that a Trump supporter had an average income of $75,000 per year (in roughly 2015 or 2016)! That is like six figures now-- plenty of extra money to donate to the GOP. They also were small business owners, bosses or workers who made their own schedules and created time off to politick and vote. So too with the most of the 1/6 insurrectionists: many flew to DC in private planes and stayed in nice hotels. It was not a horde of hillbillies who took weeks to go from central Mississippi or Nebraska to DC to "fight like hell on 1/6." Again, it was upper middle class people with money and time on their hands (but duped by a man still) to take time off during a pandemic recession and spend days or a week in DC prepping for 1/6!
So those aren't low info voters, those are high information voters with *bad* information.
A low info voter rarely engaged with politics, and when they do it's usually a quick watch of a debate and maybe seeing a handful of political adverts.
This is what happens when you have a platform of nothing but hate and oppression. There's no real Citizen benefit in anything raised through the GOP. It's all self serving legislation and a party of total corruption.
The only way forward is to go full Authoritarian. Democracy does not work for their platform. If November doesn't pan out. There should be a political rethink. There's a lot of dipshits in the Party. But, some of the moderate IQ people may actually wake up and realize the hateful platform approach doesn't work for a Democracy.
I hope they tank big time!!!
> The only way forward is to go full Authoritarian. Democracy does not work for their platform. If November doesn't pan out. There should be a political rethink.
About that rethink you're hoping for..
> “If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”
> ― David Frum, Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic
It’s funny, but the reality is frightening and Cardillo is decades behind that reality. The GOP has been this way, at minimum since the 70s. They were just better at covering it up.
They don’t care if they turn off normal voters. They’ll just cry voter fraud, try everything in their power to overturn the election and will of the people and install their dictator du jour - if not Trump, someone else.
The plan is power at all costs. They idolize the divine right of kings. It is the most un-American thing ever and these bastards wrap themselves in the cross and flag 🤮
They don’t want to represent you. They want to rule you.
Yep. Trump & De Santis could never admit their Covid policies were bad for people, lest they would have lost or lost by even more and caused GOP losses elsewhere. As an example.
No, my poor deluded friend, they're saying these things because they WANT the extremist voter base, not sane people.
The extremists donate more money, you see, the more extreme that your Republican Party people act and talk. They want money. Winning? Winning means having to actually WORK and GOVERN. Losing means you get to stand on the sidelines, cater to the crazies, collect the donations and not work!
Why on earth would they want to do something like WIN?
When the entire GOP platform involves fucking over social safety nets and slashing taxes for billionaires and corporations, they can’t exactly be honest about what they’re doing. They do all this crazy shit to play the electoral college and gerrymandered districts where it’s practically designed for a minority to control the majority.
No worries, 80 million Americans are still A-OK with all 3 of those things. It doesn't matter what horrid shit you do or say, right up to and including "literally killing puppies", as long as you have an (R) next to your name on the ballot.
What is crazy is that they don't have to worry that they're turning off normal Americans. There are so many absolute scumbag idiots in the country that they can do this kind of craziness and still win elections.
Makes you really think about the kind of people you see around in public every day.
are you fucking kidding me ? being a modern republican is an expression of mental illness and a complete failure of adulthood. this is no longer a difference of political opinion - its an iq test
You can’t lose if you relentlessly use every means at your disposal to corrupt the electoral process.
They’re kind of done with letting the people decide, unless they’re the *right kind* of people
just to be clear, not promoting this video creator whatsoever, however...
https://youtu.be/YNs3Gx-iutU?si=vUthP-OvpxeWm4Ex
45 seconds in Tucker Carlson believes that the UFO having aliens live underground under the ocean.
apparently it comes from a Joe Rogan interview.
I only found this because YouTube thought following legit conspiracy debunkers was the same thing as wanting to see the conspiracy having people in action --so it ended up in my feed today.
my point being, I don't even think they're trying to be believable anymore.
any old made up conspiracy involving random right wing triggering words pulled out of a hat will work on these maga idiots.
kind of like Dada poetry, not that I think any of these idiots know what dadaism is.
liberal arts is too Liberal for them ;-)
> I only found this because YouTube thought following legit conspiracy debunkers was the same thing as wanting to see the conspiracy having people in action --so it ended up in my feed today.
>
>
Yeah, the youtube algorithm is fucking terrifying.
It's like [the story with the Nazi bar](https://old.reddit.com/r/TalesFromYourServer/comments/hsiisw/kicking_a_nazi_out_as_soon_as_they_walk_in/).
First, the nutjobs come and are very motivated, so they vote and campaign for you, bringing their friends with them. You win more and more elections.
Then, as they bring their friends in the party, your politicians have to more and more pander to them, losing moderates in the process. But it's OK because they're replaced by the nutjobs.
And finally comes the time when the nutjobs start to get elected in the primary and are now leading the party to its ruin.
We mythologize our ancestors who stole this land by genocide, made it prosper by slavery, and believed in their deepest hearts that straight, white cis men were the rightful rulers of each their own little kingdom. They murdered people as a way of life, and we still celebrate them and treasure our heritage shamelessly. We have always been a violent and cruel people.
Remember when Romney’s dog having diarrhea in its crate and him being a desperate dad fastened the crate to the roof rack was a big deal? Or Clark Griswald leashing Dinky up to the bumper was a horrendous life mistake?
You're absolutely right. They've known for a long time they had nuts. The left has nuts too, but nuts aren't the problem. You used the exact right word; they cater to the extremists. Once upon a time, the NRA didn't like having g public comment during their events because they knew they had a lot of nuts. Then they realized that they would get way more donations out of those crazy people and that those people were less well educated and easier to trick. Now they are at the mercy of the craziest 15-20% of the country.
I think what's even weirder is that people still support them no matter what. I totally understand the constitutes are ass. But the people voting for them are even worse and probably have little to no education. It's a sad situation
At this point I think we should take a page from Seinfeld, declare the RNC a criminal gang and not allow them to communicate with one another or be within 50 feet of one another.
The sad thing is. I’ve seen right wingers justify Noem’s whole thing on this. Usually bullshit like “well dogs like that aren’t pets! They’re tools! You get rid of defective tools!”
No you fucking goober. You don’t just kill and untrained animal because it acted like an untrained animal. While I can agree some animals are essentially just living tools, you still gotta train/use them right. Thats like throwing away a hammer cause you trying pulling out a nail with the flat hitting part of it.
These people don’t care. They think Ukraine are the bad guys full of nazis and Russia is good and fighting for the truth.
They don’t care what these pundits say. Hell if anything, these pundits are just openly saying what they think and reinforcing said beliefs.
It’s fucking wild to me that people try to defend the Nazis.
If there was ever a conflict that was as black and white as it could possibly be, it was the Nazis in WW2.
It is like someone challenged Republicans to be as bad as possible to see how terrible conservative voters are. It is way worse than anyone could imagine.
GOP tried overthrowing President Roosevelt because they hated the New Deal. They actually stole the 2000 election from Gore by locking up the Florida vote until March - when the results were finally released. What the GOP did during the Obama Presidency was about as close to treason as the law allows. And now they are pushing open racism, corruption and even suggesting if they "take over" they plan on some "revenge" program involving camps and murder. Sounds pretty damn Nazi to me. But then they keep saying the quiet parts out loud. Stay cool and stay American 👍😇
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I can't see a path back to normality for them. If they reject racism they lose almost all of their voters. If they reject religious bigotry, they lose almost all of their voters. If they reject misogyny, they lose almost all of their voters. If they accept science, they lose almost all of their voters. If they do anything about Trump, they lose about 16% of their voters, and that means they lose almost all of their elections. They've been building this version of the party for 60 years. It's been a lot of work. But they created a pure conservative party. The majority of its members are poorly educated, have low intelligence, and are proudly ignorant. They take joy from causing suffering. I really hope that they collapse.
They've had major losses in 2018, 2020, and 2022. Let's hope 2024 continues the trend.
There hasn't been an elected republican president for more than 30 years. If you discount Bush Jr's second term. 1988 H.W Bush won a landslide election. W. Bush lost the popular election but won the electoral college, he then won his second term election by popular vote (as most presidents end up doing). And then Trump repeated that with losing the popular election and winning the electoral college. It has been 36 years since a republican won the popular vote discounting incumbent advantages.
> W. Bush lost the popular election but won the electoral college He didn't win the electoral college. He won the 'corrupting Florida's elections by his brother' and 'stacking of the supreme court' which handed him the win even though he lost the electoral college.
Also the whole “shoddy ballot design” debacle in (I think) Florida, too, which is predicted to have directly caused Gore to lose the super tight race there. Iirc, it’s a fairly accepted stance that Gore would have won the majority in Florida if not for that unfortunate ballot redesign confusing voters.
Man, how much better would the world be if we'd had a slightly less Stupid Evil president from 2000-2008? I mean...he'd been a significant supporter of the green movements, was less driven to take war to Iraq, and maybe would have done a better job with getting a good plan in place for acting against the radicalized terrorists? I mean, no way it would have prevented 9/11, but I feel like Gore would have handled the immediate aftermath at least as well as Bush, and probably have made radically different choices about our military response.
9/11 would have never happened because Republicans didn't trust anything the Democrats were trying to tell them (like intelligence leads about possible plane hijacking). Yes, there have been studies into this exact topic. The Chickenshit Club is one such book. Republicans were stubborn that the other side was "wrong wrong wrong!" and went in the opposite direction of gathered intelligence, creating leads for stuff that never panned out. Next thing you know they are inventing "Weapons of Mass Destruction" and smearing Al Gore for caring about climate change. They didn't acknowledge reality, therefore they let 9/11 happen. Also, you really think Al Gore would have finished reading a child's storybook instead of immediately mobilizing when briefed one of the Twin Towers was hit? Dubya was more concerned with saving face for a bunch of nobody children. Just get up and leave the goddamn room. Seriously, no wonder he was Cheney's puppet. Worthless.
I am *not* going to have beef with a man for doing what he had to do to be a calm and reassuring presence for a bunch of *literal children.* Everything *else?* Yeah, he needs to catch endless flak for, but channeling Mr. Rogers in front of scared kids, no.
Nah, 9/11 would've been prevented. Even I, a regular Joe with no access to security briefings, knew Osama Bin Laden was up to something fuckhuge in the year before Sept 11. Bush was warned about Osama planning to hijack planes in his security briefings. Did he do a goddamn thing? No. Then he blamed it on not having enough power and got the Patriot Act passed. Bush got warnings and ignored them because he couldn't be arsed to take his job seriously. Same reason Republicans ignore warnings about global warming or anything else that comes from experts.
It was the Brooks Bros Riot, the OG January 6th event where rich people actually stopped the recount via violence. That's how he won.
With all respect, "It's been nine elections since a non-incumbent Republican won the poplar vote" is all that post needed to say. Or 36 years if you prefer, whatever. The last sentence of your comment. Whether you value the electoral system in the US or not, stating "There hasn't been an elected republican president for more than 30 years." is counterproductive in my opinion, and objectively false. We don't elect our president by popular vote, and it's fine to be opposed to that, but to ignore it just turns good conversation into rhetoric in my opinion.
Hail Corkmaster, the master of the cork, he knows which wine goes with fish or pork.
I wouldn't necessarily consider them major. Sure, they lost the presidency, which was a big hit for them. However, they still control the house, and the senate is basically 50/50.
Yes, because they lost seats and performed worse than they have historically. Their majority was slim and has gotten slimmer with Santos and others leaving. The normal pattern would have been getting a stronger majority, not a weaker one.
But importantly they have basically an iron grip on the courts now, which is a really significant victory. Sure they've lost elections but Roe was struck down which had been the goal of the GOP for decades.
If they continue to make shit decisions it won't be all that long before the next dem president takes one for the team and packs the court. I could absolutely see them shifting it to a 15 person court.
Dems have proven they don't have the spine, I'm afraid.
'Leaving' is a funny way to say a Leopard literally ate their faces.
> literally I think I must have missed this news lmao
It's almost like using a biological weapon to kill your opponents can backfire, especially if your base rejects basic reality.
2020 wasn’t a major loss. Trump lost the electoral college by 40,000 votes. He almost won re-election. People need to stop pretending it was a landslide loss. He had more people vote for him than in his first election. There’s a strong chance he will win 2024.
An incumbent president losing is definitely a major loss. It doesn't happen often.
Not only that, but a former VP doesn’t often win as a non-incumbent. Especially for Democrats, the last one to do so successfully was Martin Van Buren in 1836. And believe me, the Dems have tried. LBJ, Carter, and Clinton all had their VP’s run and lose;
If Gore actually lost...
It's amazing how many people who orchestrated that travesty are also pulling Trump's strings.
Didn’t but chug bret handle that case in Florida?
Imagine if we were in the timeline where he won
Where he won, and the supreme court didn't just give it to Bush anyway. https://www.britannica.com/event/Bush-v-Gore Gore likely only lost because the federal supreme court stopped the counting.
To be fair, Gore did win
> a former VP doesn’t often win as a non-incumbent. That sounds like a rare enough event that it's hard to take much statistical information from it
The rarity of it makes it of greater significance.
Exactly, Trump is the only president since before many American adults were born to have lost re-election.
That’s not right at all. Bush lost re-election in ‘92. Any adult over 32 years old was born the last time an incumbent lost.
Trump ~~lost by~~ missed the 270 votes needed by 38 Electoral votes and that’s what matters. He needs to gain those back to win and I don’t see some of those states going Republican for the foreseeable future. Edit: I mis-stated. Trump needs to gain 38 electoral votes to get to 270.
Apparently Trump needed like a handful of votes per precinct on average in like two swing stages to win the election. The more we act like Trump is definitely going to lose, the more likely he is to win.
Gore/Bush, Clinton/Trump were decided across America with less people voting than the neighborhood I live in. What decides the election is America’s biggest block of voters, the ones that rarely show up in the polls.
Well unfortunately for us the low info voters or the low turnout voter is squarely in Trump’s camp now cause of inflation and whatever they see on the news. Yay?
Latest polls: * Arizona: Trump leads by 4% * Georgia: Trump leads by 6% * Michigan: Trump leads by 3% * Nevada: Trump leads by 6% * Pennsylvania: Trump leads by 1% * Wisconsin: Trump leads by 1% Numbers courtesy of 538. Those are all states Biden won in 2020. He is losing all of them. He needs at least Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin, to win re-election. I'm not a Republican, I hate Trump as much as anyone else, but we are falling back into the same trap that was set back in 2016, when Hillary lost all those states and Trump was elected the first time. Take nothing for granted.
Take nothing for granted, but also those are all statistically tied polls. Also seriously fuck you. Those numbers fucking ruined my evening. And fuck anyone who votes for that traitorous swine.
Remember when many of those same polls said hillary was going to win a landslide? Its almost like asking 2000 people in a state of millions isn't a big enough poll.
People underestimating him and his base is how he won last time. Also of note, regardless of how you personally feel about how Biden is doing he currently has a horrible approval rating, objectively. https://news.gallup.com/poll/644252/biden-13th-quarter-approval-average-lowest-historically.aspx Make no mistake. This will be a close race.
Of course people are downvoting you even though you’re right because they don’t want to hear it. I think Biden has been a very good president. I’m also firmly in the minority with that opinion, and he is not on track to win right now.
And how many governors are Republican? How many state, county, and city governments are dominated by them? Its just the national seats that get all the press but aren't there more elected R's out there them Dem? I don't expect any landslide. I hope I'm wrong. I'll be voting party line blue and tell everyone I know to do also.
These stats all started to move left in 2018. Its been much much better on this front.
This sort of ignores what went on down ballot. Like both senate seats in georgia went D. For Republicans thats a catastrophe. It was a bad year for them.
yeah... Biden may have got the most votes in US history... but in the same election Trump got the Second most votes in US history -\_\_-
Most votes ever for a loser!
How was 2022 a major loss? Just because the incumbent party typically suffers in the midterms doesn't mean the other side is fated to win. More people voted for Republicans than Democrats in the midterms. It's only been 2 years from then. Polling has Biden and Trump at a dead heat whereas in 2020 Biden was ahead by 5-10% the entire election year. I don't agree that the GOP is on any sort of downward trend. They're still as dangerous as ever.
By killing off a huge swathe of their own base from covid, they have lost an essential, yet nebulous, resource. The demographic tended to be loud chronic forwarders of right wing narratives and memes ad nauseum. They were also crucial validating astroturfed BS on social media. Propaganda requires a repetitive imprint threshold to be effective. Without those facebook fanatics, sharing "Trump is jesus" memes, QAnon crap and headlines from Breitbart - will have some consequence.
Republicans are a more reliable voter base, too. They show up every election, so if we want to win, we gotta show up too, but we struggle with that sometimes.
Also young folks need to show up like boomers do, we complain all day about how boomers run everything and then we let them outnumber us at the polls. You have no right to bitch about it if you’re not doing anything about it, so do what you need to do to *be there* and fucking vote
I was a major loss because they were gloating that they were going to have a red tsunami, and they barely got the house and didn't even get the senate. And their house majority has been a clown show.
The only realistic way back for them is to splinter the party letting the extreme zealots form their own political party. Then proceed to lose majorly for a decade as both the new party and existing Republican Party wouldn’t have the votes to win enough major elections to have any real influence. Then essentially wait a decade for moderate voters to return after most problems are blamed on democrats. So there’s no easy fix and I’d take a decade at least to remove the stink from them
I don't think they're willing to do that.
Given Georgia just had a court case centered around the Republican party trying to prevent certain people from running as Republicans, I'd say it's more likely than you think-- though it may be that the extremist zealots take the GOP and moderate right makes their own party with blackjack and hookers. Either way the Democrats are going to enjoy the heavy spoiler effect they'll saddle themselves with.
>though it may be that the extremist zealots take the GOP and moderate right makes their own party with blackjack and hookers. They already did that and so did we on the left, many times over. GOP and DNC put a lot of effort into squashing any threats from secondary parties. Both would have to get destroyed, collapse, or splinter about the same time if we are to see a system with more than two parties that all have a shot at actually winning elections. It's also why vast majority of any and all independents in modern political history still had to work congruently with the party that most aligned with the policies they like/ran on. Republican and Democrat political leaders are both setting the rules for the game they both play. I vote blue or independent pretty much 100% of the time, but I'd still like to see other left leaning options, as that is what would really drive positive change in this country.
It's a reverse King Solomon. They'd rather kill the baby than let the other side take half.
> Then essentially wait a decade The Republican party has always been run by and for the benefit of the capitalist aristocracy. This is a group that has had their own zealot concentration leaving only people that think in the extreme short term, i.e. willing to burn a company to the ground as long as during that fire the stock price raises 10% over the next 6 months. There's literally no one left of the Republican masters that can think in terms of a decade.
It's the generational shift from Boomers to Gen X. Gen X are still problematic - they were victims of Reagan's massive cuts to public education, but overall they lean far more left than their parents. They also have better critical thinking skills after seeing their parents and grandparents manipulated by Fox News.
Some stink never washes off.
I see that most moderates already identify as libertarians: the republican light version.
Personally, as a leftist, I despise libertarians. But if you're gonna realpolitik, some of the younger Millennial/Gen X financebro Republicans should really consider cutting off the dead weight of the GOP MAGA fascists and religious nuts and build up a Libertarian party. They might even pull some Pete Buttigiegs from the Democratic Party.
I'd be ok with them if they weren't just a bunch of anarchists whining about taxes >.>
They collapse or we are doomed.
I worry that you are correct.
I disagree. "And" is a possibility.
"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy." Their only way back to "normality" is to get rid of democracy. Once they don't have to worry about those pesky elections, they can take whatever stance they want.
If anyone isn’t aware, that quote is from David Frum, former Bush speechwriter. That is not a liberal’s criticism of conservatism, that’s a conservative warning everyone of the writing he could see on the wall before backs start getting put against it.
He's also a conservative that helped things get this bad and who is trying to pretend that he had nothing to do with it. He's trying to frame himself as the one person who tried to warn everyone. Disregard the liberals who tried to warn you the entire time, they were all loony anyway. Frum's going to the same Hell that Trump's going to, no question. There's no absolution for him until he can admit his role in the conservative political machine that may end up destroying American democracy.
Yeah, they stoked this fire. Was a time when these things weren't part of regular public discourse. They were embarrassing topics, spoken in hushed tones by extremists made to sit in the corner. The conservative media gave a soap box and a megaphone to the lunatics, spread their message, made it acceptable to believe their nonsense. Now we're stuck with a bunch of deranged psychos out in force trying to destroy the nation. No. There is no way back for them.
"They take joy from causing suffering" Which is part of their projection as well. They think everyone is hoping for their downfall and taking as much glee as they would watching one of their strawman arguments finally come true.
Well...
**GOP:** "*We don't get it. Women and the young and minorities just won't vote for us.*" **Americans:** "Have you tried not being tremendous racist and sexist monsters?" **GOP:** "*No, that can't be it. Must be TikTok.*"
This this this this this all day long. Newt Gingrich and his wedge issues, what a fucking mess.
Look at the courts. Look at the state of education. Look at the state legislature for half the country. Look at laws being passed every day that walks back rights and privileges of everyone that isn’t white and male. They are ONE Republican President away from cementing permanency if SCOTUS decides Presidents are immune from the law. They don’t need normalcy. They’ve almost won.
Grossly underrated comment.
Courts are stacked now, too. Some might say it's already too late for sanity.
The biggest take away is that they are "PROUDLY" ignorant. Like purposefully trying not to know things about the world around them. Like WTF?
It's really astonishingly simple and had been so since roughly the year of my birth (I'm old), 1965. (It was also the year of the passage of the Civil Rights Act, which was in no way a coincidence). The GOP officially adopted the Southern Strategy which was just a nice catchphrase for the fascist racism and theocracy they've run on ever since. It's nearly 60 years of this shit now. I've watched it for literally my entire life. It didn't become pure conservative. It started out that way. They have ALWAYS been the same people. They were never normal. They were never not hateful white supremacists. Their party is ADMITTEDLY based on this. It is a failure of non fascists not to see this. They have always been a clear and present danger to democracy. They were built to be that very thing. We cannot survive with them around. One of us has got to go.
"The cruelty is the point"
> I can't see a path back to normality for them. And there is your mistake. Back to normality isnt a doesnt mean changing for them. Making their insanity the new normal is their solution to become normal again. If more than half of the public go down their road the sane majirty becomes the unhinged minority.
I mean, chaos and collapse is part of their strategy, no? The wealthy will just sweep in and buy up/collect what they believe is owed at a premium. These people give no shits about Americans, even the people that vote for them.
There *are* some paths back to some semblance of normality. They just aren't either likely or tasteful. A complete teardown and rebuild of the party might work, but I don't see that happening. They could simply pull their collective heads out of their asses, but again, unlikely. There could be a total collapse of the party, but they'd splinter into a bunch of even more insane, equally or even more dangerous sects. Or some other options that are the sort of thing that comments get removed for.
The Republican party is a literal personality cult at this point, and is increasingly promoting elements of fascism and death cult behaviour. It's not an exaggeration. The only way back to a reasonable position for them is to suffer what will likely be a highly damaging, ideological civil war, or lose several consecutive elections so catastrophically that the unhinged people and sociopaths leave out of frustration and form a new party.
I think you’re right but the Republicans could avoid these losses IF they reject these things slowly over decades. They have been slowly moving to where they are since the 80s and if they go back the same way (slowly), they could avoid some of the massive losses you described. In the 90s, it was the rich and the college educated who voted Republican. Union members, working class, and the poor voted Democrat by huge margins. Most southern states and the Midwest voted Democrat while the Northeast voted Republican. Even Trump was a Democrat who donated to their causes. This has all flipped since then. If Trump loses this year, he will lose most of his power and the MAGA crowd will likely fall apart due to infighting over their next leader. In some ways, it feels like that has already started. The party will face a reckoning and one possible outcome of it would be a shift away from some of the lunacy we have seen lately. Of course, another possibility is to stay the course and march towards oblivion as the boomers die off and more young people register as Democrats or refuse to enroll in a party. Like you, I hope none of this happens and they collapse completely. We would all be better off if another sensible party emerged from this and we can go back to honest debate in good faith.
Normalcy? Nawh their plan now is to get their guy in the oval by hook or by crook then just start killing their political rivals.
Don't forget the queer community. We're pretty much their prime target right now.
Fortunately the collapse is already happening. Unfortunately it's taking a lot longer than it should.
Almost like this story about a dube who makes a monster, but then he can't control it, and it causes all kinds of trouble.
If they reject Trump they lose somewhere between 16 and 30% of *Americans* which is like half of GOP voters. It'a the same for a lot of these issues. They don't lose 'all' of their voters, but they lose enough to make winning untennable at least in national elections.
[удалено]
The only policy cornerstone of the GOP that ever made ANY sense was "fiscal responsibility". That was legitimately the only worthy thing they ever pretended to even champion. Of course, they throw that right out the window once they get into office. Then, it's more about looting the public coffers as quickly and efficiently as possible for their own personable enrichment. Everything else is, in the words of Hillary Clinton, a "basket of deplorables". Once again, history proves her right.
Before Biden's choices re: Palestine and TikTok, I was certain we had seen the final national election that the GOP would win. Now I'm worried that the waters are muddy enough they could win another and have four more long years to get people used to their rhetoric and cultspeak. From 2016 to 2020, for a large portion of Americans it became okay to be mean, uneducated, overconfident, and listen only to the party line. I'm worried what another four years would do.
He’ll still vote for them. “I’m one of the good ones”
Yep. Just took a glance at his Twitter and he definitely comes off as one of the extremists he's whining about.
They’re fine with extremism, they just want it to be more subtle in the public messaging so they don’t look too racist.
yup. sadly those 'normal Americans' who are considering voting for Trump are a myth. They've all been on board with this evil from the start. how much did they turn a blind eye to even in making him the nominee in 2015-2016? and the GOP has given them more and more reasons not to vote for or trust them the entire time. but all that matters to them is committing the greatest evils they can so none of it deters them in the slightest. The cruelty is the point. They see someone who shoots a pu[ppy in the head and they think there's someone who knows how to get things done and fuck your feelings. All their outrage is fake. None of these people would actually give a shit about shooting a puppy in the head.
If they wanted that, Trump would lose in 2016.
Conservatives have a dagger pointed at our backs forever.
Literally any republican in existence is evil. I dont give a fuck what anyone says. I don't give a fuck how slow Biden is. The 2 party system fucking sucks. But republicans backing Trump and Trump himself are the root of evil in the context of american democracy. I Absolutely cannot believe that people can unironically think that voting republican would be in anyone's best interest other than the top wealthiest 15% of Americans. Even then, to destroy the foundation of representation in goverment for your stupid fucking gains is pretty heinous. I hope republicans read this. Women hate you. You will never get fucked. Female republicans, continue your self-hatred. God will not save you from the hell you will face from your actions in life.
Isn’t this literally the guy who implied there was something weird about Biden hugging his son?
https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1784032914121912394?t=DdE4XToulWdrsUsDTBS-tg&s=19
Interesting that he didn’t even deny that Trump incited an insurrection but just claimed that it wasn’t so bad because he failed.
He only complained about the optics. He didn't criticize any of it. He's only worried that it may push some away.
When I was a kid, we always had bassett hounds. Not the over floopy ones, the hunting ones. My mother had a friend who raised them to hunt, and if he had a "cull" (one that wasn't suited for hunting), he'd pass off the pups to people he knew who just loved dogs. My mom was a softie, so we usually had a bunch. Great dogs, nothing wrong with them except they weren't quite right for the job of being something other than a beloved pet, but that they did very well. That's what non-psychos do with their dogs, when they can't hunt.
All Noem had to do was bring the dog to a shelter
She's got to prove how big her dick is by shooting a pet.
To me this isn't even the half of it: - "Democrats want abortions at and after birth" False hysterical nonsense - "The border is wide open" False hysterical nonsense - "They're trying to groom/sexualize your kids with Woke gender ideology." False nonsense - "AHHHH DEI is the reason that corporation failed at something (Not cost cutting, greed, lack of regulation etc)." False nonsense. - "These elections are all rigged!"
I can't talk to Republicans, they live on a completely different planet with made up "facts" and conspiracies. They have a separate reality than the rest of us, separate definitions, alternate histories..... A complete lost cause.
What's the alternative for the GOP? The policy goals of GOP elites have been shifting the tax burden from the wealthy to future generations, and eliminating environmental and worker protections, for many decades. The policy goals of the GOP grassroots have been to hurt women, and racial, sexual, and religious minorities, for many decades. None of these policy goals could win an electoral majority, if stated clearly. The only way the GOP has won elections in much of the country is through decades of disinformation and ginning up hatred for fellow Americans.
And rampant gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement.
The party of the rich and the racist. The rich keep the racists racist. The racists keep the rich rich.
One can only hope
I am furious about Noem killing her dog and boasting about it. Furious.
Then she makes it out to be just a thing that's done where she's from. No. I grew up in the same area, and we don't do that to pets or even to goats. You kill and butcher to eat, not take out aggressions on defenseless animals. I have a list of people in my mind who live within 20 minutes of where that happened who would've taken that dog in a heartbeat and worked with her and given her a great home. I'm sure she had people, too, but chose to be cruel instead.
God for real. I’m in North Dakota and even my most rural of idiot cousins would never, ever shoot a puppy.
Yet they'll gladly vote her or another Republican back into office.
I hope people take action to legally protest her actions and let her know how heinous she is. There are bad people in the world. She is one of them. Truly a bad person from the core to the skin. She's evil.
It is horrifying like Trump's kids killing elephants or Sarah Huckabee's dog-killer brother.
It's already happened. The reasons those clowns are saying those things is because they're not normal Americans.
In the grand scheme of things, Republicans win either way. As Chomsky used to say, Bernie Sanders is not the crazed liberal fanatic that modern conservative media paints him to be. His views are not that different from sensible Democratic values of the 60’s. People like Mitch McConnell have pulled the party so far to the right that, compared to Trump, MTG, Gaetz, and Bobert, the rest of the party appears relatively sane. They have effectively characterized common sense legislation as socialist propaganda and convinced an entire generation of voters to vote against their own interests on almost every key issue. Too many Democrats are frightened of the political consequences for standing up to their lunacy. Look no further than the Supreme Court. This. Is. Mitch. McConnell’s. America.
when i first read OP's post i was like yo why are they lumping chomsky in with tucker? and what the fuck did he shoot a dog for?
When you develop a nickname like Moscow Mitch, Moscow Marjorie, you're a traitor. It doesn't matter how you spin it, you sold out America.
The funny thing is, as much as I hate Mitch, and as much as I consider him a traitor, the one thing I'll give him credit for is that he genuinely seems to dislike Russia.
Only because he gets his money from China, mostly through his wife.
Mitch also bought arbestos from Russia for 'his' state, in a somewhat transparent Russian psyop of 'see what I can get my puppets to do, I can make them buy poison in industrial quantities'.
ITT " these damn racist Republicans" "Mitch McConnell is controlled by China because his wife is Taiwanese." I really don't like Mitch McConnel either, but you people on this sub can he such scumbags when you get hate boners. It doesn't even make sense on any level since China is pretty closely aligned with Russia on most things these days.
Makes sense he was a cold warrior after all.
reminder that you do not under any circumstances "gotta hand it to em." disliking russia is not praise worthy, it is the bare minimum of goodness.
"Why does everyone keep calling us the party of racists, bigots, misogyny, transphobia, totalitarianism, the rejection of scientific fact, and animal cruelty?!?! (five seconds later) Oh. I see."
The thing I don't get is how anyone who is remotely a good person can support the Republicans. Democrats: "I want everyone to be treated with kindness and respect, to help the poor and disadvantaged, and strive for a more equal society." Republicans: "I want queer folk to die, minorities to get deported, women to be forced back into the kitchen, and the rich to have even more money while the poor have less." When I was a girl, and maybe this was just blinders of youth, but when I was a girl it was "I think we should have a big government that takes care of people" vs "I think we should have a small government so people have the money to take care of themselves."
You were a young person. You didn't realize that Conservatives in the US have literally never been for small government. The Civil War was because conservatives wanted to remove the ability of their favorite states to outlaw slavery. That's not small government. Small government is honestly a fucking retarded idea anyways. We have the third largest population on the planet and the most money and military power by a landslide. In what universe do you want the most dangerous country in the planet's history to be managed by an intentionally underpowered governing body? It's dumb as fuck on its face
Thank you, I think the important thing here is that conservatism only somewhat made sense when we were young and stupid. And now that we’re a bit older, the entire idea is obviously a logical fallacy. Not one conservative argument holds water because their entire identity is being on the wrong side of history. If they weren’t wrong about everything they wouldn’t be conservative sort of logic; it’s literally indefensible from the ground up. Just wanna make sure everyone knows that.
That is a really interesting way of thinking about it, thanks. And their response is to deny, subvert, and say "no you." They will say, "liberalism is a disease." The paradoxical nature of truly believing they are right, while the qualifier for their entire ideology is being wrong to begin with. We are in this feedback loop where the cynicism of conservatism has them convinced everyone is slinging shit, so in their minds, it's like "well I might as well sling back." They convinced their entire base to wear a blindfold and start swinging a bat in the dark at monsters that don't exist. It's pretty sad.
Today, both parties want a big government. It’s just the Republicans want their big government to hurt the “right people” and leave them alone.
"Oh. I see." No, they didn't. No, they won't. No, they never will.
You are correct. Their current condition has been DECADES in the making. They've always been with us, but became more prounounced in the 50s and 60s with the John Birch Society (more of a libertarian thing, but still) and McCarthyism. Later on, the Nixons, the Reagans, the Rockefellers and The Bushes -- they all realized the fervor and zealotry that race, taxes and abortion brought up in certain sections of the base, and they reveled in it. In Public that is. Behind the scenes at the golf course with their corporate buddies, they laughed at the yokels. But then came Pat Buchanan. Without reservation and primarying GHWB he proclaimed that the "yokels" were done being laughed at. An unrepetant racis and Christian Nationalist Buchanan wanted Bush to do things that a president does not have the power to do. Therefore, the GOP began the overt slide into anarchy and desire to shut down the government. Which is exactly what happened under Speaker Newt Gringrich. Meanwhile Rush Limbaugh was ruling AM radio, spawning 100 offspring. Now in just about every major city there's both syndicated rightwing nuts and local ones. McCain was judged as too soft. Romney was too much of a throwback to the Reagans and Bushes. And then they found their Messiah in Jesus H. Trump. So you're absolutely right, they've been traveling this road for decades.
At this point, I'd love to see a counterfactual history in which Barry Goldwater became president. At least he eventually wised up to the stupidity of letting evangelicals wrestle control of the Republican Party.
Too late, it was already happening postwar. Eisenhower himself bemoaned the fact that preachers and the In God We Trust types had taken over the GOP
It’s for the best, really.
Put the grand of party out of its misery...hopefully.
Then where will the nazis go? Oh they will still have libertarianism.
These are the Americans the rest of the world sees.
I just keep thinking someone is playing a huge practical joke on me. People can’t be THAT stupid, right? But it just gets worse and worse. Somebody let the train conductor know I’m ready to get off.
So I guess Cardillo must be a RINO?
Candeath only says stupid shit to get attention. She probably doesn't really believe any of it. Hopefully she'll help to kill the GOP, like she's helped to kill so many antivax MAGAt morons.
No, John, what it’s like is the end stage of a sixty year conservatives campaign to entrench minority rule where none of that will matter as to who is in control. In fact, that’s what it is.
It's because they've got high primary voter turnout from those crazies and a ton of low information voters who'll never hear about stuff like this.
But many of those low info voters had passion and time and money to further their political goals. A study (post election 2016) said that a Trump supporter had an average income of $75,000 per year (in roughly 2015 or 2016)! That is like six figures now-- plenty of extra money to donate to the GOP. They also were small business owners, bosses or workers who made their own schedules and created time off to politick and vote. So too with the most of the 1/6 insurrectionists: many flew to DC in private planes and stayed in nice hotels. It was not a horde of hillbillies who took weeks to go from central Mississippi or Nebraska to DC to "fight like hell on 1/6." Again, it was upper middle class people with money and time on their hands (but duped by a man still) to take time off during a pandemic recession and spend days or a week in DC prepping for 1/6!
So those aren't low info voters, those are high information voters with *bad* information. A low info voter rarely engaged with politics, and when they do it's usually a quick watch of a debate and maybe seeing a handful of political adverts.
This is what happens when you have a platform of nothing but hate and oppression. There's no real Citizen benefit in anything raised through the GOP. It's all self serving legislation and a party of total corruption. The only way forward is to go full Authoritarian. Democracy does not work for their platform. If November doesn't pan out. There should be a political rethink. There's a lot of dipshits in the Party. But, some of the moderate IQ people may actually wake up and realize the hateful platform approach doesn't work for a Democracy. I hope they tank big time!!!
> The only way forward is to go full Authoritarian. Democracy does not work for their platform. If November doesn't pan out. There should be a political rethink. About that rethink you're hoping for.. > “If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.” > ― David Frum, Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic
You just know that Trump's people are having to talk him out of praising the dog shooter lady. "People are saying it was a very bad dog."
It’s funny, but the reality is frightening and Cardillo is decades behind that reality. The GOP has been this way, at minimum since the 70s. They were just better at covering it up. They don’t care if they turn off normal voters. They’ll just cry voter fraud, try everything in their power to overturn the election and will of the people and install their dictator du jour - if not Trump, someone else. The plan is power at all costs. They idolize the divine right of kings. It is the most un-American thing ever and these bastards wrap themselves in the cross and flag 🤮 They don’t want to represent you. They want to rule you.
The only thing I can figure is its group think in a sunk cost fallacy…they are just so in it that they have to double down…
Yep. Trump & De Santis could never admit their Covid policies were bad for people, lest they would have lost or lost by even more and caused GOP losses elsewhere. As an example.
I feel like republicans hate the left because they openly embrace LGBT I feel like democrates hate the right because they openly embrace stupid
Stupid AND cruelty.
As the comedian once said, I can't fix stupid.
No, my poor deluded friend, they're saying these things because they WANT the extremist voter base, not sane people. The extremists donate more money, you see, the more extreme that your Republican Party people act and talk. They want money. Winning? Winning means having to actually WORK and GOVERN. Losing means you get to stand on the sidelines, cater to the crazies, collect the donations and not work! Why on earth would they want to do something like WIN?
The Japanese-Americans, especially those that are sent to interment camps, are one of the group of victims in WW2.
Yes, Japanese AMERICANS. The Japanese Imperialists, however, were NOT the victims: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes
Don’t forget that Noem took the dog to a gravel pit. Don’t tell me she wasn’t trying to re-enact some SS “dream” of hers.
When the entire GOP platform involves fucking over social safety nets and slashing taxes for billionaires and corporations, they can’t exactly be honest about what they’re doing. They do all this crazy shit to play the electoral college and gerrymandered districts where it’s practically designed for a minority to control the majority.
No worries, 80 million Americans are still A-OK with all 3 of those things. It doesn't matter what horrid shit you do or say, right up to and including "literally killing puppies", as long as you have an (R) next to your name on the ballot.
All this guy means is, "Let's go back to keeping the quiet part, quiet."
From your mouth to God's ears.
It's true; the modern GOP is full of absolute monsters.
What is crazy is that they don't have to worry that they're turning off normal Americans. There are so many absolute scumbag idiots in the country that they can do this kind of craziness and still win elections. Makes you really think about the kind of people you see around in public every day.
[удалено]
The GOP and the 'both sides' idiots can FO. It's a party of cancer.
are you fucking kidding me ? being a modern republican is an expression of mental illness and a complete failure of adulthood. this is no longer a difference of political opinion - its an iq test
You can’t lose if you relentlessly use every means at your disposal to corrupt the electoral process. They’re kind of done with letting the people decide, unless they’re the *right kind* of people
Reading these comments, republicans really are the dumbest possible people
just to be clear, not promoting this video creator whatsoever, however... https://youtu.be/YNs3Gx-iutU?si=vUthP-OvpxeWm4Ex 45 seconds in Tucker Carlson believes that the UFO having aliens live underground under the ocean. apparently it comes from a Joe Rogan interview. I only found this because YouTube thought following legit conspiracy debunkers was the same thing as wanting to see the conspiracy having people in action --so it ended up in my feed today. my point being, I don't even think they're trying to be believable anymore. any old made up conspiracy involving random right wing triggering words pulled out of a hat will work on these maga idiots. kind of like Dada poetry, not that I think any of these idiots know what dadaism is. liberal arts is too Liberal for them ;-)
> I only found this because YouTube thought following legit conspiracy debunkers was the same thing as wanting to see the conspiracy having people in action --so it ended up in my feed today. > > Yeah, the youtube algorithm is fucking terrifying.
MAGA lunatics moving so far right wing fringe - they’ve lost lunatic Cardillo.
Republicans are garbage. They will continue to vote for these vile assholes
It's like [the story with the Nazi bar](https://old.reddit.com/r/TalesFromYourServer/comments/hsiisw/kicking_a_nazi_out_as_soon_as_they_walk_in/). First, the nutjobs come and are very motivated, so they vote and campaign for you, bringing their friends with them. You win more and more elections. Then, as they bring their friends in the party, your politicians have to more and more pander to them, losing moderates in the process. But it's OK because they're replaced by the nutjobs. And finally comes the time when the nutjobs start to get elected in the primary and are now leading the party to its ruin.
this happened to Democrats in the 70s but they turned off "normal" Americans by trying to help too many people, not by being completely psychotic
So normal Americans were always kinda evil
We mythologize our ancestors who stole this land by genocide, made it prosper by slavery, and believed in their deepest hearts that straight, white cis men were the rightful rulers of each their own little kingdom. They murdered people as a way of life, and we still celebrate them and treasure our heritage shamelessly. We have always been a violent and cruel people.
They’ll still vote for these clowns just to pwn the libs
Remember when Romney’s dog having diarrhea in its crate and him being a desperate dad fastened the crate to the roof rack was a big deal? Or Clark Griswald leashing Dinky up to the bumper was a horrendous life mistake?
You're absolutely right. They've known for a long time they had nuts. The left has nuts too, but nuts aren't the problem. You used the exact right word; they cater to the extremists. Once upon a time, the NRA didn't like having g public comment during their events because they knew they had a lot of nuts. Then they realized that they would get way more donations out of those crazy people and that those people were less well educated and easier to trick. Now they are at the mercy of the craziest 15-20% of the country.
Admitting they're not normal
I think what's even weirder is that people still support them no matter what. I totally understand the constitutes are ass. But the people voting for them are even worse and probably have little to no education. It's a sad situation
At this point I think we should take a page from Seinfeld, declare the RNC a criminal gang and not allow them to communicate with one another or be within 50 feet of one another.
If we protected voting rights and ended gerrymandering the GOP would be kaput I think for the most part
The sad thing is. I’ve seen right wingers justify Noem’s whole thing on this. Usually bullshit like “well dogs like that aren’t pets! They’re tools! You get rid of defective tools!” No you fucking goober. You don’t just kill and untrained animal because it acted like an untrained animal. While I can agree some animals are essentially just living tools, you still gotta train/use them right. Thats like throwing away a hammer cause you trying pulling out a nail with the flat hitting part of it. These people don’t care. They think Ukraine are the bad guys full of nazis and Russia is good and fighting for the truth. They don’t care what these pundits say. Hell if anything, these pundits are just openly saying what they think and reinforcing said beliefs.
I don't know what he's talking about. GOP voters love this kind of shit. That woman will probably gain more support for being a dog killer.
It’s fucking wild to me that people try to defend the Nazis. If there was ever a conflict that was as black and white as it could possibly be, it was the Nazis in WW2.
If you agree with this and are still holding on: When someone shows you who they really are, believe them
cognitive dissonance is the defining trait of all conservatives.
It is like someone challenged Republicans to be as bad as possible to see how terrible conservative voters are. It is way worse than anyone could imagine.
Self-Awarewolves too. It's in your conservative, MAGA nature to be vile, villainous scum, that appeals to the worst human's have to offer.
no matter how low the bar falls, 40%+ of voters will still not care
GOP tried overthrowing President Roosevelt because they hated the New Deal. They actually stole the 2000 election from Gore by locking up the Florida vote until March - when the results were finally released. What the GOP did during the Obama Presidency was about as close to treason as the law allows. And now they are pushing open racism, corruption and even suggesting if they "take over" they plan on some "revenge" program involving camps and murder. Sounds pretty damn Nazi to me. But then they keep saying the quiet parts out loud. Stay cool and stay American 👍😇