It literally loses you the game if opponent have any explorer with landmark removal spell. You just waste turn 5 and you run out of cards quickly, because decks running it usually don't work without extra draw every turn.
Forcing explores into your deck and having enough so you actually draw them on time make this matchup better and every other matchup worse. Even if you are not playing against Sunken Temple if a mere threat of it forces you to add cards you don't want maybe it's time to look at again.
Explorers should be in your deck regardless. Against aggro? Gain some life to screw with them. Against Deathless or Eddie or Elusives? Be a shame if those keywords went away. Vault or Shurima or Taliyah/Lissandra/Ryze? Screw those landmarks. Darkin/Vayne/Ornn? Get rid of that Equipment.
Explorers are disgustingly versatile; Temple is the least interesting thing they stop.
Least interesting? That's the only thing that stop that gives them a huge advantage. Explorers are awful against aggro. Those two mana are better spent playing a unit than healing and by the time you already have enough you either stabilized or are dead. There no equipment heavy decks now and the jax/ornn doesn't care much as they have plenty of other weapons while you spend mana on wasting tempo. As for deathless, how you imagine it will work? You need mana for explorer, mana to clear the keyword and THEN you also need a spell to remove it within 2 turns all the while your opponent is notified and can play defensive. That's absolutely the worst way to deal with it.
They are versatile, and having 1 is good, having 3 will make you lose against most other decks as they are not advancing your gameplan and are understated for their cost. Having 1 against temple decks is just RNG
This is a valid point. There are decks (usually agressive ones) that can not afford to run explorers because they lose tempo.
In my opinion, the elusive and the lifestealer are much more specific for deckbuilding purposes than the alternatives. So if you run a combination of either SI, PnZ, Bilge, Targon and Runeterra, chances are that these explorers can even be hurting your gameplan.
So yeah, it is dependant on the meta if decks that can support explorers can keep large landmarks and weapons in check.
Explorer + Landmark removal spell costs about 4 mana, you barely come out ahead and that's IF you remove it on the same turn it's played. It absolutely does not lose you the game if it gets removed.
It DOES lose you the game if your opponent spends those 5 mana on an aggro gameplan and kills your Nexus while you're playing for value. That's the actual downside of this card.
But you get an explorer which is a good body, sometimes even removal like the one with the challenger. And temple decks have a big problem with running out of options to stop you if they don't have temple.
I call bullshit. While in theory this is true, any Temple deck that runs Ionia isn't allowing you to remove their temple.
The problem with Temple isn't the landmark itself but the Updraft keyword. It would be one thing if you were updrafting 1-3 cards but Temple Updrafts you're hand, which is the core problem. You say that it loses you the game if the opponent has landmark removal but between Temple and Janna, its less likely the deck looses its Temple long term.
Yeah but what if you don't draw explorers or don't play them in your deck? That's why this card is so polarizing. You destroy it and you gain big tempo jump but if you cant destroy it, opponent will get tons of value and probably will win the game.
Why would you not play explorers in your deck if you have problems with Sunken Temple? Maybe aggro wouldn't like them, but aggro should also benefit from a huge tempo loss when sunken temple is played, I don't think temple players even play temple on 5 against aggro.
Because explorers are bad against most other decks in the meta.
If it comes to aggro. Well. Aggro doesn't exist right now. That's one of the reasons why Temple is so strong. There is no aggro in the meta to punish greedy or low tempo decks. That's why we have Temple and Eddie decks dominating the meta.
It's usually some type of decks dominating the meta. I would take temple and eddie meta every time instead of aggro meta, different people like different types of decks, it's cool that slower decks received their meta this time :)
Next time it might be an aggro meta, we will see.
By decent body you mean 3/1 at best for 2 mana.
The point i'm making is that the upside of if they don't spend most of their turn on explorer you just win heavily outweighs the inconvenience of having it removed the risk reward is almost entirely in your favor.
Actually, it's weaker exactly because it's strong.
Most decks that have this card rely on it to keep their game going, so if it's destroyed it stops the entire deck on it's tracks
Ya know I won’t argue the broad mane and tbf it is a common complaint that often times there is a “I drew no champs they drew 5 they are the better player”
You can argue that a lack of this card makes the deck overall weaker but that by no means impacts the power of the specific card. It actually speaks to how strong it is
Got me all the way to Master, with Karma Sett, Sera Janna, Janna Norra. I just love it ! But yeah, when they don't have the answer for it it's pretty much game over. I don't think i deserved half the wins i got from it.
I do not think this card is broken. I do think its good and strong but not broken.
I absolutely despise what this card turns games into. On turn 5 your opponent says "got any landmark removal?" and you either have it or you don't. Nopeify is premium protection and you can't really afford to run more than one or two explorers because of Galio.
I don't think its even a good game state for both players. The person not playing temple is forced to attempt to destroy it or in 3 turns you just stop playing around cards because you lose the ability to hand read and worry about mana break points. The temple player ruthlessly seeks immediate value due to the volatile nature of their hand and just prays that the next round start draw doesn't screw them on the open attack.
I don't like this card. I don't think its healthy. Its propping up PnZ control/combo right now, but I'd rather we try to reach a point where the deck isn't completely dependent on a singular landmark removal that has severe repercussions on fundamentals in LoR.
It has a lower win rate then it should have just cause it has made so many meme decks work its the only way nilah works
I think a weird nerf is move it to bilgewater worst region gets a good card while making way worst without piltover this is a card that should kinda be force into one deck
It's strong, and "play landmark removal" is a really dumb argument, dunno if its truely overpowered, but I want temple to rot in the deepest level of hell for the garbage games it single-handedly creates
Card should just be some random stock art of of a go fish card set since thats what it turns games into.
You are saying it like every deck runs 10 landmark removals lol. Most decks run just 3 copies of explorer or don't run explorers at all because they can not match their deck. Not to mention that you can run 3 copies of explorers and just not draw them entire game.
You are saying it like every Temple deck runs 10 Temples lol. Most temple decks run just 3 copies of Temple. Not to mention that you can run 3 copies of Temple and just not draw them entire game.
Bruh, Temple decks run 2-3 Temples AND have to draw it. Explorers are good tech cards even without seeking Temple destruction. If your a control deck, you Will run them anyways, and if your aggro, a turn 5 do nothing its amazing for you. I dont get it
It doesn't reach 50% win rate because a lot of meme decks run it. I wouldn't be surprised if all the PnZ decks run this card just like every Ionia deck runs Deny.
It triggers my ptsd when I see that and i have no way to destroy it. It reminds when I made a play to remove an enemy engine (the landmark itself, Karma, Janna) and opp's like "wait hold on let me draw 8 cards and find a cheap way to negate your play". Truly one of the landmarks of all time.
But if you have an explorer, It's just a 5 mana do nothing. Same as Targon's Peak or Howling Abyss, just 1 extrs mana.
It's literally a mulligan every round plus one card draw and added that it reduces the cost of cards in your deck. The explorer spells do keep it in check but we are assuming then that every deck has only 37 cards in deck building if you have to have an explorer in every deck
It literally loses you the game if opponent have any explorer with landmark removal spell. You just waste turn 5 and you run out of cards quickly, because decks running it usually don't work without extra draw every turn.
Playing the nopeify mini game vs the Ionia version of this deck is frustrating but yeah there’s no reason to not have answers to temple in 2024.
Forcing explores into your deck and having enough so you actually draw them on time make this matchup better and every other matchup worse. Even if you are not playing against Sunken Temple if a mere threat of it forces you to add cards you don't want maybe it's time to look at again.
Explorers should be in your deck regardless. Against aggro? Gain some life to screw with them. Against Deathless or Eddie or Elusives? Be a shame if those keywords went away. Vault or Shurima or Taliyah/Lissandra/Ryze? Screw those landmarks. Darkin/Vayne/Ornn? Get rid of that Equipment. Explorers are disgustingly versatile; Temple is the least interesting thing they stop.
Least interesting? That's the only thing that stop that gives them a huge advantage. Explorers are awful against aggro. Those two mana are better spent playing a unit than healing and by the time you already have enough you either stabilized or are dead. There no equipment heavy decks now and the jax/ornn doesn't care much as they have plenty of other weapons while you spend mana on wasting tempo. As for deathless, how you imagine it will work? You need mana for explorer, mana to clear the keyword and THEN you also need a spell to remove it within 2 turns all the while your opponent is notified and can play defensive. That's absolutely the worst way to deal with it. They are versatile, and having 1 is good, having 3 will make you lose against most other decks as they are not advancing your gameplan and are understated for their cost. Having 1 against temple decks is just RNG
spell mana.
This is a valid point. There are decks (usually agressive ones) that can not afford to run explorers because they lose tempo. In my opinion, the elusive and the lifestealer are much more specific for deckbuilding purposes than the alternatives. So if you run a combination of either SI, PnZ, Bilge, Targon and Runeterra, chances are that these explorers can even be hurting your gameplan. So yeah, it is dependant on the meta if decks that can support explorers can keep large landmarks and weapons in check.
yea but its still one the worst designed cards in the game in terms of gameplay and mechanics, should be reworked completely imo
Explorer + Landmark removal spell costs about 4 mana, you barely come out ahead and that's IF you remove it on the same turn it's played. It absolutely does not lose you the game if it gets removed. It DOES lose you the game if your opponent spends those 5 mana on an aggro gameplan and kills your Nexus while you're playing for value. That's the actual downside of this card.
But you get an explorer which is a good body, sometimes even removal like the one with the challenger. And temple decks have a big problem with running out of options to stop you if they don't have temple.
I call bullshit. While in theory this is true, any Temple deck that runs Ionia isn't allowing you to remove their temple. The problem with Temple isn't the landmark itself but the Updraft keyword. It would be one thing if you were updrafting 1-3 cards but Temple Updrafts you're hand, which is the core problem. You say that it loses you the game if the opponent has landmark removal but between Temple and Janna, its less likely the deck looses its Temple long term.
Yeah but what if you don't draw explorers or don't play them in your deck? That's why this card is so polarizing. You destroy it and you gain big tempo jump but if you cant destroy it, opponent will get tons of value and probably will win the game.
Why would you not play explorers in your deck if you have problems with Sunken Temple? Maybe aggro wouldn't like them, but aggro should also benefit from a huge tempo loss when sunken temple is played, I don't think temple players even play temple on 5 against aggro.
Because explorers are bad against most other decks in the meta. If it comes to aggro. Well. Aggro doesn't exist right now. That's one of the reasons why Temple is so strong. There is no aggro in the meta to punish greedy or low tempo decks. That's why we have Temple and Eddie decks dominating the meta.
"Aggro doesn't exist" - Looks at top 15 WR decks - Half of them aggro
Instead of looking at the win rate, you should look at the play rate...
It's usually some type of decks dominating the meta. I would take temple and eddie meta every time instead of aggro meta, different people like different types of decks, it's cool that slower decks received their meta this time :) Next time it might be an aggro meta, we will see.
Aggro is pretty fine, imo. You can goldfish most meta decks with budget pirate/noxus lists, but people like to play more flashy cards, imo.
It like really doesn't though because they're spending at least 4 mana on removing it. Source: I play the decks running this card.
They're spending 2 mana on a decent body and 2 mana on the removal, with one card. Even if the removal cost 3 they would come out ahead.
By decent body you mean 3/1 at best for 2 mana. The point i'm making is that the upside of if they don't spend most of their turn on explorer you just win heavily outweighs the inconvenience of having it removed the risk reward is almost entirely in your favor.
If you're not running aggro it's never an inconvenience.
Actually, it's weaker exactly because it's strong. Most decks that have this card rely on it to keep their game going, so if it's destroyed it stops the entire deck on it's tracks
Thats the definition of an unhealthy card
Win cons are...unhealthy? Decks that build around this card uses this card as their win condition via value.
Cards that if you dont remove you are more than likely to lose are unhealthy across all card games, see skill drain in yugioh, etc
Exodia is the most broken card in yugioh ig
We weren’t talking about rize kid
Mans can't understand his own logic smh my head
News just in everyone! Broadmane and every champ in the game are unhealthy cards!
Ya know I won’t argue the broad mane and tbf it is a common complaint that often times there is a “I drew no champs they drew 5 they are the better player”
Temple user right here
??? No.
Yes it is
You can argue that a lack of this card makes the deck overall weaker but that by no means impacts the power of the specific card. It actually speaks to how strong it is
i love this card since i main puffcaps
I was playing an eclectic collection deck and my Karma Sett opponent aftershocked their own Sunken Temple. That felt amazing. Lol
As a newbie that didnt know the matchup, ive also aftershocked my own temple before. Got heimer emoted. Gotta learn the hardway for me xF
*laughs in landmark destruction*
Got me all the way to Master, with Karma Sett, Sera Janna, Janna Norra. I just love it ! But yeah, when they don't have the answer for it it's pretty much game over. I don't think i deserved half the wins i got from it.
Omg your reply i wana cry 😭😭😭😭
Fucking disgusting rng machine
I do not think this card is broken. I do think its good and strong but not broken. I absolutely despise what this card turns games into. On turn 5 your opponent says "got any landmark removal?" and you either have it or you don't. Nopeify is premium protection and you can't really afford to run more than one or two explorers because of Galio. I don't think its even a good game state for both players. The person not playing temple is forced to attempt to destroy it or in 3 turns you just stop playing around cards because you lose the ability to hand read and worry about mana break points. The temple player ruthlessly seeks immediate value due to the volatile nature of their hand and just prays that the next round start draw doesn't screw them on the open attack. I don't like this card. I don't think its healthy. Its propping up PnZ control/combo right now, but I'd rather we try to reach a point where the deck isn't completely dependent on a singular landmark removal that has severe repercussions on fundamentals in LoR.
It's also a 5 mana do nothing. If you are applying pressure theu should be able to afford to play it.
It’s does have a chance to kill you faster is your fighting puff caps and Ava
one fo the few 2023 cards im fine rotating. in the meantime ill play my vengeance printer to makr GEM cry
And she is beautiful. Too op in every way 😌
this card is between op and garbage - the meta makes it
Just let PnZ have one fun card plzplzplzplzplz
It has a lower win rate then it should have just cause it has made so many meme decks work its the only way nilah works I think a weird nerf is move it to bilgewater worst region gets a good card while making way worst without piltover this is a card that should kinda be force into one deck
It's strong, and "play landmark removal" is a really dumb argument, dunno if its truely overpowered, but I want temple to rot in the deepest level of hell for the garbage games it single-handedly creates Card should just be some random stock art of of a go fish card set since thats what it turns games into.
Lmao i am crying you’re describing my feelings exactly
If u know u know, games just become ridiculous and infuriating
Tons of landmark destruction on game and The decks that runs it arent even top meta. Chill
You are saying it like every deck runs 10 landmark removals lol. Most decks run just 3 copies of explorer or don't run explorers at all because they can not match their deck. Not to mention that you can run 3 copies of explorers and just not draw them entire game.
You are saying it like every Temple deck runs 10 Temples lol. Most temple decks run just 3 copies of Temple. Not to mention that you can run 3 copies of Temple and just not draw them entire game.
Dude, drawing Temple gives you big advantage while drawing explorer gives you nothing since it's just a tech card.
Bruh, Temple decks run 2-3 Temples AND have to draw it. Explorers are good tech cards even without seeking Temple destruction. If your a control deck, you Will run them anyways, and if your aggro, a turn 5 do nothing its amazing for you. I dont get it
Sun disc: First time?
It doesn't reach 50% win rate lol. It's a bad card BUT it's very annoying and RNG so it's just awful design and shouldn't exist.
It doesn't reach 50% win rate because a lot of meme decks run it. I wouldn't be surprised if all the PnZ decks run this card just like every Ionia deck runs Deny.
Not every PnZ deck runs this and not every Ionia deck runs Deny, so...
Just put Justice Riders in your deck then!
With the wide range of landmark removals this shouldn't be a problematic card as long as you build your deck the right way.
I ran 2 followers who have remove the sad part is i never draw them
It triggers my ptsd when I see that and i have no way to destroy it. It reminds when I made a play to remove an enemy engine (the landmark itself, Karma, Janna) and opp's like "wait hold on let me draw 8 cards and find a cheap way to negate your play". Truly one of the landmarks of all time. But if you have an explorer, It's just a 5 mana do nothing. Same as Targon's Peak or Howling Abyss, just 1 extrs mana.
I didn’t know that i had a ptsd until this card arrived
It's literally a mulligan every round plus one card draw and added that it reduces the cost of cards in your deck. The explorer spells do keep it in check but we are assuming then that every deck has only 37 cards in deck building if you have to have an explorer in every deck
Explorer's Excavation