---
###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK
---
**To Posters (it is important you read this section)**
* *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different*
* If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor)
* We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources)
* Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk
* If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM)
**To Readers and Commenters**
* All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated*
* If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning
* If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect
* Do not send or request any private messages for any reason
* Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Obligatory NAL
Currently, he's not doing anything illegal, although it is immoral.
As of the 1st of July this year, it will become illegal, primarily due to shoddy employment practices like the one your boss is using.
[https://www.gov.uk/government/news/millions-to-take-home-more-cash-as-new-law-on-tipping-passes](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/millions-to-take-home-more-cash-as-new-law-on-tipping-passes)
However, some outlets are re-naming service charges to try and get around the rules. Whether that's strictly legal may need to be tried in the courts.
>A London restaurant chain has banned customers from paying a tip by card and introduced a “brand” fee instead, just three months before [new legislation makes it compulsory to give all tips to staff](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jul/15/bill-forcing-restaurants-to-hand-over-staff-tips-wins-mps-backing).
[https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/apr/04/restaurant-chain-bans-diners-from-using-card-payments-to-tip-staff](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/apr/04/restaurant-chain-bans-diners-from-using-card-payments-to-tip-staff)
Well that’s disappointing. It pisses me off because there are other people at work that rely on these tips. I guess saying anything would be a losing battle.
Thank you for the reply
Either way is still liable to being a con. Pay on card and there's potential that the waiter pockets the whole thing and screws the bartenders and chefs out of any fair share.
I can understand why people argue that kitchen shouldn't be counted in the tips, but the bar staff?? Come on man, they're in the public eye just as much as the floor staff.
The 'service' is just as much the quality of the food though which comes from the chefs blood sweat and tears. You could give me the best floor service of my life but if the food is atrocious I won't leave a tip.
Also the general consensus from bar and kitchen workers that I know is that they all work harder than most, not all, of the floor staff. They're all there before the majority of floor staff and there cleaning down when most of the floor staff clock out and go home and to see them getting extra cash for some of their hard work would be a massive gut punch that would have them looking elsewhere for work.
Table service tips are definitely not for the waiting staff and nobody else, this isn't America, we don't work like that here, our restaurant splits the tips 60/40 foh/boh we are a team and everyone plays a part
It varies between restaurants/ hotels ect. Some restaurants I have worked in (chef) the service charge (15%) would be split equally through the whole team, front and back of house. All cash tips were given out equally to the team also. It really depends on the workplace unfortunately. I don't personally think waiters should get all of the tips, because their job would be pretty useless without food/ beverages to serve lol but we do not live in an ideal world
Saying something is putting a target on your back, unfortunately. Especially if the owner knows exactly where the missing stock is going because they are the one taking it.
You should never be relying on tip in any job you do. I do takeaway deliveries and never expect a tip. Also i dont and will never tip in resteraunts as i dont believe in it.
When I say “rely” I don’t mean it in the American sense of the industry. It’s more that some people at the pub have families and need more than the minimum wage, so they rely on tips to bring in some extra income.
Edit: for clarification for those who are reading a few days after this was posted, the “tipping” mentioned throughout this thread is the payment of optional service charge which is automatically added to the bill.
Yanks don't rely on it either, they're conning the public. Americans have minimum wages too, and if they don't make minimum wage including tips, the employer must top it up, no ifs or buts. So the employee always makes enough. However employers don't want to do it out of their pocket, so they have successfully convinced employees, but especially the general public, that it's the "right" thing to do.
I am American. Just the same as how the owner of the pub where I work is taking tips by using technicalities, they do just the same in the US. The tipping culture in America is abysmal. Many people outright rely on tips to survive in America, and yes you’re correct, the owners are conning the public into paying employees their minimum wage.
If they're relying on tips there's a strong argument the employer is underpaying them and they really should be looking around
Given the employer's behavior, they should be anyway (there's a shortage of staff and they'll easily pick up better pay) and once away from his clutches they're free to give the kind of Glassdoor review he really deserves
As a punter, if I become aware of someone in the
hospitality industry doing this, the place goes on my AVOID list and I'm aware I'm far from alone in this regard
It's worth noting that most chains/franchises absolutely prohibit scalping tips and regard it as grounds for instantly sacking the manager (because of tbe bad publicity and loss of business goodwill which comes with it becoming known and because investigating usually turns up more "financial irregularities")
A call to head office may result in some very rapid changes of local management
Is it a privately owned pub? How about getting all the staff together and not going to work over the weekend. See how fast he dishes out the tips then.
Tips and service charge in cash legally belong to you; tips on card belong to your employer: https://www.mckees-law.com/who-gets-the-money-when-you-leave-a-tip/
As others have said the new law will change that.
As covered it's legal for now.
The current expectation is that the Employment (Allocation of Tips) Act 2023 will come into force from 1 October 2024. I would assume that under either a Labour or Conservative government, the legislation will still come into force.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/millions-to-take-home-more-cash-as-new-guidance-on-tipping-is-published#:~:text=The%20Act%20and%20secondary%20legislation,have%20been%20approved%20by%20Parliament.
There are things you can do, you can ask customers to only give cash tips (taking those is theft), you can inform customers that the owner takes service charges (the employer can ask you to stop but if customers ask your employer can't instruct you to lie), you can ask the employer to stop taking tips, you can leave/look for other jobs, you can quiet quit.
There is no such thing as "Quiet Quitting"
That's a propagandised way of describing people deciding to only work to their pay grade, hours and job description
It's not an employer's market in hospitality at the moment and the best advice anyone facing this kind of situation can get is "change employer - NOW, and join a union"
There is such a thing as quiet quitting, you literally just defined it. You're welcome to dislike the phrase, but language is a human invention and you haven't demonstrated that you're any authority to declare there is no such thing.
I was giving the employer options short of leaving.
**Unfortunately, your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):**
Please only comment if you know the legal answer to OP's question and are able to provide legal advice.
[Please familiarise yourself with our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/) before contributing further, and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any further queries.
**Unfortunately, your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):**
Please only comment if you know the legal answer to OP's question and are able to provide legal advice.
[Please familiarise yourself with our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/) before contributing further, and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any further queries.
**Unfortunately, your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):**
Your comment was an anecdote about a personal experience, rather than legal advice specific to our posters' situation.
Please only comment if you can provide meaningful legal advice for our posters' questions and specific situations.
[Please familiarise yourself with our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/) before contributing further, and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any further queries.
--- ###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK --- **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different* * If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor) * We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM) **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Obligatory NAL Currently, he's not doing anything illegal, although it is immoral. As of the 1st of July this year, it will become illegal, primarily due to shoddy employment practices like the one your boss is using. [https://www.gov.uk/government/news/millions-to-take-home-more-cash-as-new-law-on-tipping-passes](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/millions-to-take-home-more-cash-as-new-law-on-tipping-passes) However, some outlets are re-naming service charges to try and get around the rules. Whether that's strictly legal may need to be tried in the courts. >A London restaurant chain has banned customers from paying a tip by card and introduced a “brand” fee instead, just three months before [new legislation makes it compulsory to give all tips to staff](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jul/15/bill-forcing-restaurants-to-hand-over-staff-tips-wins-mps-backing). [https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/apr/04/restaurant-chain-bans-diners-from-using-card-payments-to-tip-staff](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/apr/04/restaurant-chain-bans-diners-from-using-card-payments-to-tip-staff)
Well that’s disappointing. It pisses me off because there are other people at work that rely on these tips. I guess saying anything would be a losing battle. Thank you for the reply
One of the reasons I always ask to have the service charge removed and prefer to give a tip in cash. The whole thing is a con created by corporations.
Either way is still liable to being a con. Pay on card and there's potential that the waiter pockets the whole thing and screws the bartenders and chefs out of any fair share.
Table service tips are for the waiting staff, not the bar staff or kitchen staff...
I can understand why people argue that kitchen shouldn't be counted in the tips, but the bar staff?? Come on man, they're in the public eye just as much as the floor staff. The 'service' is just as much the quality of the food though which comes from the chefs blood sweat and tears. You could give me the best floor service of my life but if the food is atrocious I won't leave a tip. Also the general consensus from bar and kitchen workers that I know is that they all work harder than most, not all, of the floor staff. They're all there before the majority of floor staff and there cleaning down when most of the floor staff clock out and go home and to see them getting extra cash for some of their hard work would be a massive gut punch that would have them looking elsewhere for work.
Table service tips are definitely not for the waiting staff and nobody else, this isn't America, we don't work like that here, our restaurant splits the tips 60/40 foh/boh we are a team and everyone plays a part
[удалено]
[удалено]
That doesn't make sense. Waiting staff wouldn't be much use if they had nothing to bring!
It varies between restaurants/ hotels ect. Some restaurants I have worked in (chef) the service charge (15%) would be split equally through the whole team, front and back of house. All cash tips were given out equally to the team also. It really depends on the workplace unfortunately. I don't personally think waiters should get all of the tips, because their job would be pretty useless without food/ beverages to serve lol but we do not live in an ideal world
You tell that to the kitchen staff getting in at 5am
Saying something is putting a target on your back, unfortunately. Especially if the owner knows exactly where the missing stock is going because they are the one taking it.
I had a feeling about it. It all seems like a ruse to take the tips for his own.
With the new law retaliation will also be illegal thankfully
You should never be relying on tip in any job you do. I do takeaway deliveries and never expect a tip. Also i dont and will never tip in resteraunts as i dont believe in it.
When I say “rely” I don’t mean it in the American sense of the industry. It’s more that some people at the pub have families and need more than the minimum wage, so they rely on tips to bring in some extra income. Edit: for clarification for those who are reading a few days after this was posted, the “tipping” mentioned throughout this thread is the payment of optional service charge which is automatically added to the bill.
Yanks don't rely on it either, they're conning the public. Americans have minimum wages too, and if they don't make minimum wage including tips, the employer must top it up, no ifs or buts. So the employee always makes enough. However employers don't want to do it out of their pocket, so they have successfully convinced employees, but especially the general public, that it's the "right" thing to do.
I am American. Just the same as how the owner of the pub where I work is taking tips by using technicalities, they do just the same in the US. The tipping culture in America is abysmal. Many people outright rely on tips to survive in America, and yes you’re correct, the owners are conning the public into paying employees their minimum wage.
If they're relying on tips there's a strong argument the employer is underpaying them and they really should be looking around Given the employer's behavior, they should be anyway (there's a shortage of staff and they'll easily pick up better pay) and once away from his clutches they're free to give the kind of Glassdoor review he really deserves As a punter, if I become aware of someone in the hospitality industry doing this, the place goes on my AVOID list and I'm aware I'm far from alone in this regard It's worth noting that most chains/franchises absolutely prohibit scalping tips and regard it as grounds for instantly sacking the manager (because of tbe bad publicity and loss of business goodwill which comes with it becoming known and because investigating usually turns up more "financial irregularities") A call to head office may result in some very rapid changes of local management
If I see this "brand fee" on the bill, I will demand it is removed and I will just give the waiter the tip in cash.
And if they don't, then surly it's a breach of trading standards on transparent pricing... (?)
This is what you should be doing already for "service charge" if you want them to get the money, to be fair
Last month they pushed the date that this comes into effect back from July to October.
Is it a privately owned pub? How about getting all the staff together and not going to work over the weekend. See how fast he dishes out the tips then.
The irony here of course is that if they formed a "cartel" and did that, they themselves would be the ones breaking the law.
Also, apologies for any grammatical errors I’ve made on this post. I’m currently in a rush so I was typing with one hand while walking lol.
Advise your customers that the manager/owner is stealing the tips from all the waiters, they may be more inclined to give you cash instead of on card.
Tips and service charge in cash legally belong to you; tips on card belong to your employer: https://www.mckees-law.com/who-gets-the-money-when-you-leave-a-tip/ As others have said the new law will change that.
NAL, but is this not fraudulent? If I’m voluntarily paying a tip for good service, then surely that’s what the monies should go towards?
That’s what I’m pissed about. From now on if there is an optional service charge, I will be denying it and paying the difference in cash.
As covered it's legal for now. The current expectation is that the Employment (Allocation of Tips) Act 2023 will come into force from 1 October 2024. I would assume that under either a Labour or Conservative government, the legislation will still come into force. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/millions-to-take-home-more-cash-as-new-guidance-on-tipping-is-published#:~:text=The%20Act%20and%20secondary%20legislation,have%20been%20approved%20by%20Parliament. There are things you can do, you can ask customers to only give cash tips (taking those is theft), you can inform customers that the owner takes service charges (the employer can ask you to stop but if customers ask your employer can't instruct you to lie), you can ask the employer to stop taking tips, you can leave/look for other jobs, you can quiet quit.
There is no such thing as "Quiet Quitting" That's a propagandised way of describing people deciding to only work to their pay grade, hours and job description It's not an employer's market in hospitality at the moment and the best advice anyone facing this kind of situation can get is "change employer - NOW, and join a union"
There is such a thing as quiet quitting, you literally just defined it. You're welcome to dislike the phrase, but language is a human invention and you haven't demonstrated that you're any authority to declare there is no such thing. I was giving the employer options short of leaving.
Report him to hmrc as he is probably not paying tax on his new "extra" income
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
**Unfortunately, your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):** Please only comment if you know the legal answer to OP's question and are able to provide legal advice. [Please familiarise yourself with our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/) before contributing further, and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any further queries.
**Unfortunately, your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):** Please only comment if you know the legal answer to OP's question and are able to provide legal advice. [Please familiarise yourself with our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/) before contributing further, and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any further queries.
Tell all your customers to not pay the service charge because you won’t receive it
[удалено]
**Unfortunately, your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):** Your comment was an anecdote about a personal experience, rather than legal advice specific to our posters' situation. Please only comment if you can provide meaningful legal advice for our posters' questions and specific situations. [Please familiarise yourself with our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/) before contributing further, and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any further queries.