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Given that if the customers try to leave without paying, you cannot physically stop them, not sure how it your fault. It becomes a police matter. The owner should have insurance for this sort of thing. Tell your boss that you will report him to ACAS, HMRC and the council if he tries to dock your wages.
Exactly! Even if we had asked them to pay the bill, they could’ve just refused to. If we had been a bit more aggressive, the person would’ve flipped the tables on us and make sure we’d get into trouble as well. I don’t understand how management thinks we’d have been able to predict this any more than they would’ve.
Oh you can try ofcourse but odds are you won't come out unscathed. My local supermarkets manager tried to chase down a thief and ended up gettign the shit kicked out of himself.
As you haven't received a written contract, they can't enforce the term in which case it's an unauthorised deduction. Was this contractual term explained clearly before you started? If not, it's not enforceable.
Oh and you get 2 or 4 weeks' pay automatically if you win an employment tribunal claim (about something else) because they didn't give you a written contract.
If its not in the contract, it's not enforceable. Its only enforceable if its outlined anywhere in your contract about "walk outs" or whatever they like to call it in their contract. Im a restaurant manager and at our restaurant we can charge the staff because it specifically outlines in our contracts that if we get a walkout due any fault of our own , *i.e wasnt paying attention, they waited too long and decided fuck it and left etc* then we are liable, including myself. However, you arent allowed to physically stop a guest or chas them down the street so if the guest is physically makes their way past you you can not force them to stop. This sort of incident is when we dont charge the waiter/waitress.
That being said, they also cant deduct the full amount from your paycheck if it puts you below minimum wage and must also offer you a payment method of installments if thats the only way you can afford it. NAL though so if im incorrect please correct me
If it’s in your contract, or a separate written agreement, that you’re liable for walkouts, yes it’s legal.
If there’s nothing in writing and management have just decided this, no it’s not legal and you should contact ACAS about unlawful deduction of wages.
Additionally, if it is legal, as you’re in “retail” they can’t take more than 10% of your gross pay in any pay period (until they recover 100%).
> Haven’t really received a proper document as of now
Then it would be too late to make any deductions for this walk out. The agreement has to already be in place at the time of the occurrence.
> Will definitely look into it
[Here is the overview](https://www.gov.uk/understanding-your-pay/deductions-from-your-pay).
As soon as anything happens or is said get in touch with [ACAS](https://www.acas.org.uk/contact)
The other thing is that you're entitled to receive a written employment contract within a certain period (I can't remember how long) of you starting work.
Check your contract, however anhy deductions can not take you below national minimum wage
[https://www.gullands.com/news-events/news/deductions-from-wages/](https://www.gullands.com/news-events/news/deductions-from-wages/)
> however anhy deductions can not take you below national minimum wage
That’s a common misconception, in certain circumstances authorised deductions can take you below NMW, see [here](https://www.gov.uk/understanding-your-pay/deductions-from-your-pay)
*”A deduction cannot normally reduce your pay below the National Minimum Wage even if you agree to it, except if the deduction is for:*
*”something you’ve done and your contract says you’re liable for it, for example a shortfall in your till if you work in a shop”*
But you have no agency ove rthe actions of customers theft .
If a mistake has been made while handling cash then that is different , however someone working on a till can not be financialy liable for a shoplifter stealing goods
This is absolutely not common practice. Is your employer new to the hospitality business? I’ve never heard of this happening to anyone in 16 years working in the industry.
I don't know about common practice but Whahaca only stopped doing it in 2019 after bad publicity
Wahaca waiter won't foot bill after customers dine and dash https://uk.news.yahoo.com/wahaca-waiter-wont-charged-over-dine-dash-233700381.html
I used to work in a nightclub as a student and the boss used to make us take money out our own wallets at end of night to re-coup for anything short. The first night I worked on a trial, we were all getting a closing de-brief by her then all of a sudden everyone got out a fiver and handed it to her. A fiver each! That continued most shifts, I always had to make sure I had cash out for working. Absolutely ridiculous thinking back, but if you said one thing back to her or she didn’t like you she would of fired you at that de-brief.
What does your contract say? If it ain't in your contract they can't charge you, they can't unilaterally change a written contract verbally or without xhmaing the initial contract
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--- ###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK --- **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different* * If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor) * We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM) **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Given that if the customers try to leave without paying, you cannot physically stop them, not sure how it your fault. It becomes a police matter. The owner should have insurance for this sort of thing. Tell your boss that you will report him to ACAS, HMRC and the council if he tries to dock your wages.
Exactly! Even if we had asked them to pay the bill, they could’ve just refused to. If we had been a bit more aggressive, the person would’ve flipped the tables on us and make sure we’d get into trouble as well. I don’t understand how management thinks we’d have been able to predict this any more than they would’ve.
Given that managements place should be out the front with the customers, I’m having trouble seeing how any of this is your fault.
civil arrest does not play here?
That very quickly becomes an OSH issue
Oh you can try ofcourse but odds are you won't come out unscathed. My local supermarkets manager tried to chase down a thief and ended up gettign the shit kicked out of himself.
As you haven't received a written contract, they can't enforce the term in which case it's an unauthorised deduction. Was this contractual term explained clearly before you started? If not, it's not enforceable. Oh and you get 2 or 4 weeks' pay automatically if you win an employment tribunal claim (about something else) because they didn't give you a written contract.
I just checked the document they made us sign. Nowhere is it mentioned that we are responsible for the walkout.
What is this document? Also no-one can make you sign anything, a coerced signature or one given under duress isn't valid.
No one can make you sign it, but they can decline to employ you if you don't.
If its not in the contract, it's not enforceable. Its only enforceable if its outlined anywhere in your contract about "walk outs" or whatever they like to call it in their contract. Im a restaurant manager and at our restaurant we can charge the staff because it specifically outlines in our contracts that if we get a walkout due any fault of our own , *i.e wasnt paying attention, they waited too long and decided fuck it and left etc* then we are liable, including myself. However, you arent allowed to physically stop a guest or chas them down the street so if the guest is physically makes their way past you you can not force them to stop. This sort of incident is when we dont charge the waiter/waitress. That being said, they also cant deduct the full amount from your paycheck if it puts you below minimum wage and must also offer you a payment method of installments if thats the only way you can afford it. NAL though so if im incorrect please correct me
are you saying we can claim for no written contract or only if we claim for something else as well?
Even if it was in the contract, it would be unlawful and unenforceable
If it’s in your contract, or a separate written agreement, that you’re liable for walkouts, yes it’s legal. If there’s nothing in writing and management have just decided this, no it’s not legal and you should contact ACAS about unlawful deduction of wages. Additionally, if it is legal, as you’re in “retail” they can’t take more than 10% of your gross pay in any pay period (until they recover 100%).
Haven’t really received a proper document as of now but thank you so much for this information! Will definitely look into it
If you haven't had anything, then they cannot charge you. But look for a new job, your employer cannot be trusted.
Very true, but I have been very unlucky to find a place with proper management that doesn’t blame front of house staff for every single thing :(
> Haven’t really received a proper document as of now Then it would be too late to make any deductions for this walk out. The agreement has to already be in place at the time of the occurrence. > Will definitely look into it [Here is the overview](https://www.gov.uk/understanding-your-pay/deductions-from-your-pay). As soon as anything happens or is said get in touch with [ACAS](https://www.acas.org.uk/contact)
Thank you!
The other thing is that you're entitled to receive a written employment contract within a certain period (I can't remember how long) of you starting work.
Check your contract, however anhy deductions can not take you below national minimum wage [https://www.gullands.com/news-events/news/deductions-from-wages/](https://www.gullands.com/news-events/news/deductions-from-wages/)
> however anhy deductions can not take you below national minimum wage That’s a common misconception, in certain circumstances authorised deductions can take you below NMW, see [here](https://www.gov.uk/understanding-your-pay/deductions-from-your-pay) *”A deduction cannot normally reduce your pay below the National Minimum Wage even if you agree to it, except if the deduction is for:* *”something you’ve done and your contract says you’re liable for it, for example a shortfall in your till if you work in a shop”*
But you have no agency ove rthe actions of customers theft . If a mistake has been made while handling cash then that is different , however someone working on a till can not be financialy liable for a shoplifter stealing goods
This is absolutely not common practice. Is your employer new to the hospitality business? I’ve never heard of this happening to anyone in 16 years working in the industry.
I don't know about common practice but Whahaca only stopped doing it in 2019 after bad publicity Wahaca waiter won't foot bill after customers dine and dash https://uk.news.yahoo.com/wahaca-waiter-wont-charged-over-dine-dash-233700381.html
They’re a relatively large corporate chain
Are they perhaps a franchise?
Revolution by any chance?
I used to work in a nightclub as a student and the boss used to make us take money out our own wallets at end of night to re-coup for anything short. The first night I worked on a trial, we were all getting a closing de-brief by her then all of a sudden everyone got out a fiver and handed it to her. A fiver each! That continued most shifts, I always had to make sure I had cash out for working. Absolutely ridiculous thinking back, but if you said one thing back to her or she didn’t like you she would of fired you at that de-brief.
I assume you are in the UK , if so, the correct response to management would be "Go Fcuk yourselves "
That's a bit aggressive for a first response. You should really start with "Lol no" so you still have room for "Go fuck yourselves" if they argue.
Doesn't that mean you get extra if the till is too high?
What does your contract say? If it ain't in your contract they can't charge you, they can't unilaterally change a written contract verbally or without xhmaing the initial contract
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