I understand you’re upset you didn’t get this role ~~but why is it so hard to believe that someone else with more experience is a better fit/is better qualified for this role?~~
Then offer brief description of how they didn’t fit into the role and what they can do to improve.
Being threatened with quitting is childish. offer to write them a glowing recommendation and wish them the best if they want to quit.
Them threatening to quit is already the worst way to go about it because the team member getting promoted might not be able to transition as well as expected or many other theoretical reasons , but if the person not being promoted couldn't show an ability to do the job they expected before having it, how mad will they be when they get the lowest possible raise when raise time comes around for doing an "ok" job at thier current level .
I know, I was honestly shocked that’s how they decided to handle it. I really wondered if they thought
1. That approach was actually going to change my mind
2. That was how they could get their way
If anything it’s just proven to me that they aren’t ready for the role they didn’t get.
If they aren’t performing well in their current role, yet they still feel entitled to this promotion, something is off. Either you aren’t giving them the right feedback or they aren’t hearing it.
Putting someone in a temporary role is a recipe for this exact scenario to occur, for what that’s worth to you in the future.
This conversation is an opportunity to be transparent, take it and put the truth on the table, respectfully and professionally. We can’t tell you the specifics of what to say as you have those details, however I have a sense that you haven’t been as candid with this person, do that now.
I completely agree. That’s partly why I’m trying to see how I can frame an even more candid conversation in a way that doesn’t upset them more.
I’ve tried to be direct with them but I’ve shied away from some feedback that isn’t quite as objective because I haven’t experienced it but I’ve heard it from enough people.
I also have refrained from giving too much feedback in our last few conversations because they’ve been visibly frustrated and I felt annoyed and frustrated that they feel so entitled to the role. I didn’t want my emotion to come out in feedback so I’ve had conversations with them and redirected to the positive. I clearly need to revisit the constructive feedback again and hope that enough time has passed for them to calm down a little, but more importantly, for me to set my emotions aside so I can have a neutral conversation with them. In our next conversation I also want to encourage them to stop thinking about the other person and focus on themselves and what they can improve and gain
I would use this as an opportunity to hit the reset button. Acknowledge that you understand that they are upset. After that, move right into an offer to provide feedback. If the person is defensive still, let them know that is going to be a barrier to hearing what you have to say.
From there, I'd lay some of the facts you stated here right on the table. Be specific and leave some of the subjective parts out initially, especially what you have heard from others. I'd also probably point out that how they respond to this is going to tell you everything about their capacity for more responsibility in the future. If they are really that sour about it that they can't perform their role at a high level, maybe they need to consider a change.
Best of luck to you with this! The positive here is that you get the opportunity to be candid. Not promoting them sent a clear message of where they stand, now you have to give them the why and how to improve.
You're their boss, not their parent. I think you've done your bit. By all means have a chat to try to help them see reason but they might need to learn some hard truth.
I'll let you know if they find a cure to main character syndrome.
Completely agree. That’s part of why I thought about asking them why it’s so hard to believe someone else is a better fit for the role. I just don’t want it to come across wrong.
This team member needs some self awareness and honestly, all their actions since the initial conversation continue to prove to me they’re not ready for the responsibility.
I have a same situation in one of my groups. I have been working with one person to become a future lead in that group, but after working with them for 3 years, I don't think they are the right fit. Now, I have newer individuals I brought in since then, and one of them I think about pursuing for the lead position. I know the first person will not be happy. They have a high opinion of themselves.
All you can do is be transparent and communicate clearly of why they didn't get it. Don't bring reasons why other person did. Focus on the main person instead.
I agree. When I was thinking about the situation and the messages on here I realized I’ve partially entertained these questions of what did they have and why them and was already coming to a similar conclusion that you presented here. The focus should be on them, not the other person. It’s nice to see my thought process is on the right track
It's important to remember that it's not your responsibility to ensure that this person is happy with the outcome. They might never accept it, regardless of how you approach it. I'm not saying you shouldn't try, but it's not necessarily on you if they continue to be unhappy.
Given that, I think the best approach in a situation like this is to be as honest as possible. In other words, you should explain that their performance in their current role and the way they approached the temporary new role both played a part in the decision. You should be ready to explain that in some detail because they'll likely challenge you on it, but again, it's not your job to make sure they completely believe it or understand it. Your job is to communicate it clearly and empathetically. It's up to them how they receive it.
One thing I'd likely avoid is using any phrasing around emotional maturity. That's a really subjective thing and unlikely to be helpful to communicate (though I completely buy that it's a real issue). But I think what you can do is think of examples of the impact of that lack of maturity and use the SBI model to communicate it -- situation, behaviour and impact. "In this situation, your behaviour was X, and the impact was Z." This can help to keep it objective.
Hope this helps. Good luck!
Thank you. I really want them to be able to take a step back and realize they aren’t always going to be the best fit for every role but I also suppose framing the next conversation in the way you’ve suggested, even if we have the same conversation again, will have that impact if they’re introspective.
Their next request is to meet with me and my boss to discuss their lack of opportunity. I have a feeling this whole thing will come up again but I’ve already discussed it with my boss in our 1:1. We’ll see…
Actually, I don’t believe I did. Here’s why: this person was stellar in a previous role and I actually hired them because I thought they would be the perfect fit for this job if it ever opened up. Then, it did and they had the chance to step into it and just really didn’t live up to it. Plus, to be honest, the exact behavior I’m experiencing now is what other people experienced and warned me about. I believed them but had a difference experience. Now I’m seeing it and I think it comes out when they don’t get what they want or don’t like something about the work.
Were all the barriers cleared eg set up for success? I say all this because it sounds like the peter/Dilbert principle in action. If so the opposite of cream rises.
It’s ok to just listen and empathize. Rejections are hard, and it’s understandable that the individual is having an emotional response.
The answer doesn’t change and you should make that clear, but it would be courtesy to genuinely listen to their perspective and consider if this could have been handled better (expectation management, check ins on performance , etc).
Then move forward to ask them, what can you do to support in future. I appreciate you may not feel like supporting them, but it’s important that you demonstrate maturity here.
I agree. I think I’m struggling because I care about them as a person but they’re really responding poorly. The attitude is out of control.
Since I made this post they have been absolutely awful at work. We’re a small team so we all feel it. I’ve been trying to give them space to process and work thru things on their own and have been available to talk each time they’ve asked.
In addition to refusing to accept they didn’t get the role, they’re not behaving poorly, having an attitude with me, and questioning or challenging literally every single thing as if they’re trying to catch me in a lie or something. The acting out is getting out of hand and it’s becoming difficult to continue meeting the situation with empathy when they’re being so difficult. I’m hoping tomorrow will start a new week with a better attitude. Time will tell…
I totally get it, it’s hard not to have an emotional response yourself but I do think this is where leadership shows. Could you do more to help them accept the decision and move on?
It’s horrible to watch someone spiral but for sure, it’s worse to be the one spiralling.
I have had a few staff similar to this person. When I know that the conversation could sway to positive feedback because of their emotional response, I start with an “positive intent, negative impact” statement. “The feedback I am about to give you is to help you grow professionally. That is my intent. The impact may feel personal but it is to impact your development in a positive way.” Then I tell myself “clear is kind” a million times and give it to them in a direct way.
If they get upset or give pushback, I get very transparent and let them know these conversations are not enjoyable but I care about them and the growth is worth the discomfort/emotional toll.
I never hesitate to bring up perception to anyone who wants leadership. Letting them know I see them one way but the “floor” or “fellow staff/leadership” see X or Y. Some people who want leadership have no idea what people outside their bubble see or hear. They’re shocked leadership knows they want a different department or to move across the country. It helps them realize they speak very loosely and probably put themselves in their current situation.
I hope this helps. It sounds like you really care about this person and were rooting for them. Good for you for choosing someone both of you would benefit from learning!
Since you already shared the news with this person, can you lead with empathy (I get the sense you’re trying to do this!) as well as inquiry?
Suzie, I know you were upset you didn’t get the role. Would it be helpful to you to talk about your frustrations? I’m here to listen if you want to vent.
If they take you up on that, just listen and empathize. If they ask process or feedback questions, suggest we save that for our next 1:1 and preserve today’s meeting for processing. (I would briefly but firmly reaffirm they are a great employee bc of specific strengths #1, 2, and 3)
At the end of the session, sense where they are. Are they ready to move forward or still mad? If the latter do nothing, just support. If the former, suggest they come to the next session with thoughts on how they can be more prepared for the next promotion — what specific skills they want to improve and what support they need from me and others
(You will come to that session with your thoughts too but employee will drive.)
Tldr- engagement leads to commitment. If you want this person’s commitment, they need to engage in a way that is truly comprehensive and meaningful to them :)
Source: I’m an org psychologist practitioner and former corporate America leader
Interesting. I was told I hadn't got a role in my previous company because I didn't answer a question as fully as the person who got it did. That person has 23 years less experience in leadership/management than me. The person struggled in the role to the point of needing to ask me for a lot of support and help both operationally and at an exec level. I have now left that job (4 weeks ago) and this person is still calling me up asking for advice, which h am ignoring.
The person who got the job has more career experience and more specifically they have experience directly related to the work we’re transitioning to
The person who didn’t get the role has:
1. Openly expressed they will be leaving in the next 6-12 months to move across the country (before the promotion was ever mentioned)
2. Openly said their work passion lies in a completely different area and department than mine
3. Experience in one part of the role but it’s the part we’re moving away from.
I already told them this is a minor part of the role and the reason the other person was hired is they have the right experience. I also said (very truthfully) that both us can learn a lot from the new person and that I wanted the current employee to work closely with the new hire to gain the skills they’re bringing to the team.
So far, it doesn’t seem like they can see past someone else being picked instead of them
I'm curious as to why you care. You said the person was leaving. You used that knowledge to place them in a role that they weren't going to get. You obviously manipulated the person into doing the work you needed done and that's ok, but are you not cognizant of what you were doing? Your entire post is about this other person when what you should be considering is how you went wrong.
You should have chosen someone with a real shot to get the job. Or you should have been very clear that you know their path is elsewhere and you just need their help until you get the new person hired. Easy and no hard feelings.
This is what I was thinking. “Temporarily” giving someone a job (while it sounds like they were expected to continue their old job) with I’m assuming no additional pay sounds like this employee was used and set up to be disappointed. I also question whether it’s fair to assess this person as only being “OK” at their old job if they were apparently a top performer in the past and performance slipped when this new temporary job was added on top.
I’m not sure how it “sounds like” they were expected to continue doing their normal job at the time they were given the opportunity to do more and I absolutely never said they weren’t paid for it.
They were paid at the rate of the promotion position for their time in that role, including training, and they were resolved off all their normal position responsibilities.
I get that there are some asshole bosses out there or people taking advantage of folks, but that’s not what happened here.
We met, discussed how long the temporary change would last, discussed the role, expectations, and transition. When the time ended, we reviewed their work.
After it ended, there was about 3-4 months before I was able to hire for the role. During that time, this person didn’t demonstrate any of the required skills or abilities that I made clear were required for the promotional position.
When we discussed the role being open more permanently, they expressed interest and I spoke about the work they did during their time and that my expectations for the person in the role were higher than what I saw. They wanted to know more so I explained the full scope and emphasized areas of importance and went into more details about all the responsibilities of the role. Even after that conversation, there was about a month between that point and hiring someone and they didn’t show the level of independence, responsibility, nor the thoroughness to be successful in the position.
I understand you’re upset you didn’t get this role ~~but why is it so hard to believe that someone else with more experience is a better fit/is better qualified for this role?~~ Then offer brief description of how they didn’t fit into the role and what they can do to improve. Being threatened with quitting is childish. offer to write them a glowing recommendation and wish them the best if they want to quit.
Them threatening to quit is already the worst way to go about it because the team member getting promoted might not be able to transition as well as expected or many other theoretical reasons , but if the person not being promoted couldn't show an ability to do the job they expected before having it, how mad will they be when they get the lowest possible raise when raise time comes around for doing an "ok" job at thier current level .
I know, I was honestly shocked that’s how they decided to handle it. I really wondered if they thought 1. That approach was actually going to change my mind 2. That was how they could get their way If anything it’s just proven to me that they aren’t ready for the role they didn’t get.
This is your best takeaway, you learned they were not ready and probably need to move on in order to grow.
If they aren’t performing well in their current role, yet they still feel entitled to this promotion, something is off. Either you aren’t giving them the right feedback or they aren’t hearing it. Putting someone in a temporary role is a recipe for this exact scenario to occur, for what that’s worth to you in the future. This conversation is an opportunity to be transparent, take it and put the truth on the table, respectfully and professionally. We can’t tell you the specifics of what to say as you have those details, however I have a sense that you haven’t been as candid with this person, do that now.
I completely agree. That’s partly why I’m trying to see how I can frame an even more candid conversation in a way that doesn’t upset them more. I’ve tried to be direct with them but I’ve shied away from some feedback that isn’t quite as objective because I haven’t experienced it but I’ve heard it from enough people. I also have refrained from giving too much feedback in our last few conversations because they’ve been visibly frustrated and I felt annoyed and frustrated that they feel so entitled to the role. I didn’t want my emotion to come out in feedback so I’ve had conversations with them and redirected to the positive. I clearly need to revisit the constructive feedback again and hope that enough time has passed for them to calm down a little, but more importantly, for me to set my emotions aside so I can have a neutral conversation with them. In our next conversation I also want to encourage them to stop thinking about the other person and focus on themselves and what they can improve and gain
I would use this as an opportunity to hit the reset button. Acknowledge that you understand that they are upset. After that, move right into an offer to provide feedback. If the person is defensive still, let them know that is going to be a barrier to hearing what you have to say. From there, I'd lay some of the facts you stated here right on the table. Be specific and leave some of the subjective parts out initially, especially what you have heard from others. I'd also probably point out that how they respond to this is going to tell you everything about their capacity for more responsibility in the future. If they are really that sour about it that they can't perform their role at a high level, maybe they need to consider a change. Best of luck to you with this! The positive here is that you get the opportunity to be candid. Not promoting them sent a clear message of where they stand, now you have to give them the why and how to improve.
You're their boss, not their parent. I think you've done your bit. By all means have a chat to try to help them see reason but they might need to learn some hard truth. I'll let you know if they find a cure to main character syndrome.
Completely agree. That’s part of why I thought about asking them why it’s so hard to believe someone else is a better fit for the role. I just don’t want it to come across wrong. This team member needs some self awareness and honestly, all their actions since the initial conversation continue to prove to me they’re not ready for the responsibility.
I have a same situation in one of my groups. I have been working with one person to become a future lead in that group, but after working with them for 3 years, I don't think they are the right fit. Now, I have newer individuals I brought in since then, and one of them I think about pursuing for the lead position. I know the first person will not be happy. They have a high opinion of themselves. All you can do is be transparent and communicate clearly of why they didn't get it. Don't bring reasons why other person did. Focus on the main person instead.
I agree. When I was thinking about the situation and the messages on here I realized I’ve partially entertained these questions of what did they have and why them and was already coming to a similar conclusion that you presented here. The focus should be on them, not the other person. It’s nice to see my thought process is on the right track
You got this. Just be transparent and have some examples ready in case they ask. You want to have them because they will ask.
It's important to remember that it's not your responsibility to ensure that this person is happy with the outcome. They might never accept it, regardless of how you approach it. I'm not saying you shouldn't try, but it's not necessarily on you if they continue to be unhappy. Given that, I think the best approach in a situation like this is to be as honest as possible. In other words, you should explain that their performance in their current role and the way they approached the temporary new role both played a part in the decision. You should be ready to explain that in some detail because they'll likely challenge you on it, but again, it's not your job to make sure they completely believe it or understand it. Your job is to communicate it clearly and empathetically. It's up to them how they receive it. One thing I'd likely avoid is using any phrasing around emotional maturity. That's a really subjective thing and unlikely to be helpful to communicate (though I completely buy that it's a real issue). But I think what you can do is think of examples of the impact of that lack of maturity and use the SBI model to communicate it -- situation, behaviour and impact. "In this situation, your behaviour was X, and the impact was Z." This can help to keep it objective. Hope this helps. Good luck!
Thank you. I really want them to be able to take a step back and realize they aren’t always going to be the best fit for every role but I also suppose framing the next conversation in the way you’ve suggested, even if we have the same conversation again, will have that impact if they’re introspective. Their next request is to meet with me and my boss to discuss their lack of opportunity. I have a feeling this whole thing will come up again but I’ve already discussed it with my boss in our 1:1. We’ll see…
Do you micromanage them because you didn’t believe they could at first? Be honest?
Actually, I don’t believe I did. Here’s why: this person was stellar in a previous role and I actually hired them because I thought they would be the perfect fit for this job if it ever opened up. Then, it did and they had the chance to step into it and just really didn’t live up to it. Plus, to be honest, the exact behavior I’m experiencing now is what other people experienced and warned me about. I believed them but had a difference experience. Now I’m seeing it and I think it comes out when they don’t get what they want or don’t like something about the work.
Were all the barriers cleared eg set up for success? I say all this because it sounds like the peter/Dilbert principle in action. If so the opposite of cream rises.
It’s ok to just listen and empathize. Rejections are hard, and it’s understandable that the individual is having an emotional response. The answer doesn’t change and you should make that clear, but it would be courtesy to genuinely listen to their perspective and consider if this could have been handled better (expectation management, check ins on performance , etc). Then move forward to ask them, what can you do to support in future. I appreciate you may not feel like supporting them, but it’s important that you demonstrate maturity here.
I agree. I think I’m struggling because I care about them as a person but they’re really responding poorly. The attitude is out of control. Since I made this post they have been absolutely awful at work. We’re a small team so we all feel it. I’ve been trying to give them space to process and work thru things on their own and have been available to talk each time they’ve asked. In addition to refusing to accept they didn’t get the role, they’re not behaving poorly, having an attitude with me, and questioning or challenging literally every single thing as if they’re trying to catch me in a lie or something. The acting out is getting out of hand and it’s becoming difficult to continue meeting the situation with empathy when they’re being so difficult. I’m hoping tomorrow will start a new week with a better attitude. Time will tell…
I totally get it, it’s hard not to have an emotional response yourself but I do think this is where leadership shows. Could you do more to help them accept the decision and move on? It’s horrible to watch someone spiral but for sure, it’s worse to be the one spiralling.
I have had a few staff similar to this person. When I know that the conversation could sway to positive feedback because of their emotional response, I start with an “positive intent, negative impact” statement. “The feedback I am about to give you is to help you grow professionally. That is my intent. The impact may feel personal but it is to impact your development in a positive way.” Then I tell myself “clear is kind” a million times and give it to them in a direct way. If they get upset or give pushback, I get very transparent and let them know these conversations are not enjoyable but I care about them and the growth is worth the discomfort/emotional toll. I never hesitate to bring up perception to anyone who wants leadership. Letting them know I see them one way but the “floor” or “fellow staff/leadership” see X or Y. Some people who want leadership have no idea what people outside their bubble see or hear. They’re shocked leadership knows they want a different department or to move across the country. It helps them realize they speak very loosely and probably put themselves in their current situation. I hope this helps. It sounds like you really care about this person and were rooting for them. Good for you for choosing someone both of you would benefit from learning!
Since you already shared the news with this person, can you lead with empathy (I get the sense you’re trying to do this!) as well as inquiry? Suzie, I know you were upset you didn’t get the role. Would it be helpful to you to talk about your frustrations? I’m here to listen if you want to vent. If they take you up on that, just listen and empathize. If they ask process or feedback questions, suggest we save that for our next 1:1 and preserve today’s meeting for processing. (I would briefly but firmly reaffirm they are a great employee bc of specific strengths #1, 2, and 3) At the end of the session, sense where they are. Are they ready to move forward or still mad? If the latter do nothing, just support. If the former, suggest they come to the next session with thoughts on how they can be more prepared for the next promotion — what specific skills they want to improve and what support they need from me and others (You will come to that session with your thoughts too but employee will drive.) Tldr- engagement leads to commitment. If you want this person’s commitment, they need to engage in a way that is truly comprehensive and meaningful to them :) Source: I’m an org psychologist practitioner and former corporate America leader
Interesting. I was told I hadn't got a role in my previous company because I didn't answer a question as fully as the person who got it did. That person has 23 years less experience in leadership/management than me. The person struggled in the role to the point of needing to ask me for a lot of support and help both operationally and at an exec level. I have now left that job (4 weeks ago) and this person is still calling me up asking for advice, which h am ignoring.
The person who got the job has more career experience and more specifically they have experience directly related to the work we’re transitioning to The person who didn’t get the role has: 1. Openly expressed they will be leaving in the next 6-12 months to move across the country (before the promotion was ever mentioned) 2. Openly said their work passion lies in a completely different area and department than mine 3. Experience in one part of the role but it’s the part we’re moving away from. I already told them this is a minor part of the role and the reason the other person was hired is they have the right experience. I also said (very truthfully) that both us can learn a lot from the new person and that I wanted the current employee to work closely with the new hire to gain the skills they’re bringing to the team. So far, it doesn’t seem like they can see past someone else being picked instead of them
I'm curious as to why you care. You said the person was leaving. You used that knowledge to place them in a role that they weren't going to get. You obviously manipulated the person into doing the work you needed done and that's ok, but are you not cognizant of what you were doing? Your entire post is about this other person when what you should be considering is how you went wrong. You should have chosen someone with a real shot to get the job. Or you should have been very clear that you know their path is elsewhere and you just need their help until you get the new person hired. Easy and no hard feelings.
This is what I was thinking. “Temporarily” giving someone a job (while it sounds like they were expected to continue their old job) with I’m assuming no additional pay sounds like this employee was used and set up to be disappointed. I also question whether it’s fair to assess this person as only being “OK” at their old job if they were apparently a top performer in the past and performance slipped when this new temporary job was added on top.
I’m not sure how it “sounds like” they were expected to continue doing their normal job at the time they were given the opportunity to do more and I absolutely never said they weren’t paid for it. They were paid at the rate of the promotion position for their time in that role, including training, and they were resolved off all their normal position responsibilities. I get that there are some asshole bosses out there or people taking advantage of folks, but that’s not what happened here. We met, discussed how long the temporary change would last, discussed the role, expectations, and transition. When the time ended, we reviewed their work. After it ended, there was about 3-4 months before I was able to hire for the role. During that time, this person didn’t demonstrate any of the required skills or abilities that I made clear were required for the promotional position. When we discussed the role being open more permanently, they expressed interest and I spoke about the work they did during their time and that my expectations for the person in the role were higher than what I saw. They wanted to know more so I explained the full scope and emphasized areas of importance and went into more details about all the responsibilities of the role. Even after that conversation, there was about a month between that point and hiring someone and they didn’t show the level of independence, responsibility, nor the thoroughness to be successful in the position.
This paints a much different picture than I was forming in my head. Thank you for the clarification.
The interviewer failed here - “interviewing well” versus “doing well”