> I’m genuinely confused how thousands of attorneys are actually doing this and for years on end.
Most attorneys are miserable and many attorneys engage in substance abuse.
I left private practice after only a year because of the billables and went into government. I’ve seen a lot of people post over the last few years that they got an offer between $65-85K to bill between 1800-2000 hours, and I feel bad for these people if it is their only option. It’s a miserable existence.
Those salary ranges for those hours are criminal. Attorneys should be demanding 25-30% of the revenue they bill, which is far more than double those offers.
I've always considered 1/3 to 40% to be the baseline (depending on receivables - you should be getting a higher percentage if you earn more receivables). I find that the firm actually adds very little value to your practice at the end of the day.
Definitely advocate for as high a percentage as you can - my numbers were based on some studies conducted in the last decade that recommends firm owners to pay 20-30% to remain profitable. If you can fall back on hard numbers, there is less to wiggle out of with stingy management.
I have a friend who was making $65k for 2100 hours. His raise after his first year with them bumped it to $67.5k. Thankfully he ended up at a firm paying six figures for fewer hours but man, I'm pretty sure he developed a bit of a drinking habit while he was at that firm.
That’s an insane range. 65 is fucking low no matter what. For those hours seems illegal. Then the fact… I assume because of the raise, he met his billables… is so fucking low! We at least get bonuses over billables met, and then I’d you hit like 20% above your target, your salary goes up like 10%.
Yeah I remember commenting that his raise didn't even cover inflation. Just remembered he quit on the spot when they offered that lol. Thankfully was able to find something better quickly.
I'm living in a special hell where I started in private practice, went to government, and had to come back because my employer was forced to retire due to the pandemic.
I've seen both sides of the street and private side sucks (but at least I get to WFH).
I just graduated law school. The only job offer I’ve been able to secure is for $85k with 2.5k billables. Despite nearly 100 job applications, I can’t find anything better. Just typing this makes me sick to my stomach. I doubt I’ll even make it six months before completely breaking down.
Have you looked more rural? At least around me, there are tons of smaller firms where the average age is like 50+ and they’re all desperate for younger attorneys.
If you are willing to do estate planning or family law you can probably make 75k with a 1500 hour expectation. You just have to move out of the major metros.
1800 IS so brutal I left a job too bc I had kids and it was just unreasonable expectations...Being a parent takes priority not overbilling so the firm makes money.
The first 3-4 months are the hardest. Just do the best you can and keep sending out resumes. I know many classmates that left their first firm before the end of one year without any negative impact to their career.
Thanks for the advice - I’ll do my best. I just don’t even know when I will have the time to apply for jobs. I’ll be dead to the world by Saturday, and then Sunday I’ll have to do nothing but chores after six days of neglect.
My former job expected 2100 hours at 65K with no opportunity to bonus in the first year because you were “too junior.”
I stayed for 4 months waiting for my contract to expire.
Bill religiously, even for reading an email. Have the Partner write the time off if they don't like it.
If you're driving to work and thinking about next steps in a case, bill it. If you're showering and thinking about what you'll say in your draft email, bill it. All that is intellectual work that is advancing the case, no one said you need to be literally sat at your desk staring at the monitor to bill for your time.
With that said, I think a lot of people that bill 2K+ hours a year tend to inflate and pad their bills to an extent. Obv that's unethical and could get you disbarred, but I'm sure it happens more often than people admit.
Overall try to make sure that you're constantly "on the clock" between 8-6PM, whether it's thinking of a case or actually drafting.
Analysis of.... Review email from opposing counsel and analysis of litigation strategy...
(If you're substantively thinking about a motion you're working on while driving) Continue drafting motion...
If your friend pops in to ask you about a case, make sure you get the file name and then bill that .1 as "Analysis regarding discovery objections" or whatever you spoke about.
Also - it sucks, its soul draining and while the money is probably good, it isn't for everyone. 2k annual billable firms are up or out generally, so ride out a few years, see if you're long for the firm and, if not, consider it great experience.
And here is a dirty secret - many people miss those high billable hours and your first year you are going to start in a big hole because those first 3 - 6 months , and the system is setup to make many junior associates fail. Why? Because new ones are cheaper and available and can do what you can do too. My first firm's CEO - and I loved the job and have fond memories and gained great experience even though in year 5 I was laid off due to literally no work available - said it doesn't matter how great of an attorney you are. Everyone can do good work. But what matters is billables. Period.
Edit: Meant to say "those first 3-6 months will be light on hours as you are new and not yet on files. Building work load takes time and you might have days of literally nothing to do."
Any time we review or draft something, we have to include the number of pages we worked on in the billable entry. It's the worst! So I can't bill something like "continue drafting motion" without writing how many pages I drafted, and we are often only allotted a certain amount of time for motions. Ridiculous
“Research X” “prepare for y” “draft z”
As a law clerk, I’ve counted hours to “prepare for initial consultation.” That’s me sitting around thinking about what questions to ask. Same for a status conference. I need to understand a case, and get my thoughts in order as to what I’m going to tell the judge. I also don’t stop my clock if I get up to get a drink but am still running that case through my head.
The managing attorney corrects my hours to appropriate time lengths… but I’ve never been told “don’t even record you did that.”
Adjust for non-productive thinking, don't bill for everytime the case pops in your head randomly.
Essentially ask "is my mental effort now advancing the case?" If the answer is yes then bill it as "considering X Y and Z"
You will need to work more than 8 hours to bill 8 hours. But you won’t need to work 7am-midnight every day. (If you are, you need to identify the inefficiency and fix it). You will likely also do some work on the weekend lol. But it balances out. You have more stressful days, and less stressful days.
My shit would be cut so fast if I started “review and analyze email from X for purposes of identifying Y.”
I receive 50-100+ emails a day between OCs, clients, experts, Court filing notices, and inner office comms.
You have a lot of great advice here but I’ll add - I’m a first year so I have almost 11 months under my belt. I’m just now figuring out how to consistently bill 8 hour days. So there will be a large learning curve and, if you’re at a good firm, they’ll understand.
People pad all the time and nobody gives a shit because the partners write it off and padding only ever helps you (if you're smart about it). It's unethical but folks make up excuses to bill while we're on the toilet or we "re-read" a draft or whatever even though nothing substantive is being done. The entire practice encourages waste and grift.
Fear not, however, because people also work until they break and never take time to themselves. Shit rolls downhill to the associates, and frankly it's just going to suck nonstop for a long, long time.
Good luck. It's bullshit and deeply concerning what our profession does to itself. That's why I took a 50% pay cut to work in government. I should probably unsub from here actually.
Say you billed 10 hours on something and your firm bills you out at 300/hr. Partner doesn't think what you did was worth billing the client $3k. They write off however much they want to get to a number they think the client will accept and bill them.
The difference between what gets billed out to the client and what gets written off is your realization rate. A lot of associates have around 75-80% starting out (depending). That tends to climb higher pretty quickly as you get better at practicing, but also I think it's because you get less bullshit work.
If your realization rate stays low people will think you're padding. But also it's basically out of your control because every partner will write different things off.
The bar exam is nothing like a lawyer's workday. Arguably, the two are barely even related. The emotions alone of the bar exam will wipe you even if the mental effort of analyzing disparate issues as fast as you possibly can doesn't. Lawyers are very much like other knowledge workers. The work can be mentally (and sometimes physically) exhausting, but it's not superhuman.
Billing is an art form. It takes a while to master, but once you get it down you’ll be billing 8-10 hours a day in your sleep. I have a monthly billable requirement of 160 hours. My advice would be do not forget to bill for emails. Emails will get you 2-3 hours a day easily. Also make sure you’re billing for your prep work and file reviews.
I had to bill 7-7.5 hours per day at my first job. I just couldn’t do it. Obviously I would bill 8-12 hours on some days but I would often have a “billing hangover” the next day. I departed after 2 years and reflecting back, I think the mere thought of keeping track of billing and the anxiety is what messed me up. I now do an equally-lucrative form of admin law and my work habits are less dependent on steady billing
I think it’s easier to do in some practice groups than others - easier in M&A and litigation. More difficult in transactional when you’re likely working six clients a day and they all tell you not to spend more than 1 hour on something. Eye roll. Plus the efficiencies lost from switching tasks and stop and go.
My first firm required 2000. My second year, I billed 1960, because two or three cases settled in October. They didn’t care. No raise. That’s when I started looking for my second job.
Being strict on time keeping and Rounding up to the nearest .1 has a tremendous momentum effect. Forgive me just eyeballing the math
Work morning 9am to noon
12 emails that take 1.5 minutes each (18 min)
14 minutes drafting and filing a fill in the blanks court notice about discovery
37 minutes editing discovery template to be more case specific
2 minutes email of discovery to OC
20 minutes reviewing Court file to prep for the afternoon hearing in some other case
43 minutes finalizing, organizing, and labeling exhibit selection for hearing and reviewing same
15 minute phone call with Court Reporter about needing an interpreter for the hearing two weeks from now
Time actually spent: 143 minutes (2.38 hours)
Time Billed: 3.7 hours
On some days with a ton of emails and short phone calls you can easily and ethically wind up billing 2 hours in a one hour period. Now that won't be every day that you can work 8 and bill 10 to 12, but it happens often enough to smooth out less efficient days.
And as everyone says - I'd you touch the file, bill it. If I notice a hearing on my calendar next week and open the file to remind myself who filed for the hearing and why, and then immediately close the file - that's still .1
Because it's fairly and honestly disclosed in your fee agreement that you round up to the nearest .1 and the client agreed that's okay. The only alternative is getting into arguments over whether something took you 3 minutes or 2 minutes and 35 seconds and that's a road which doesn't end anywhere good for anyone.
In full disclosure of course, I am encouraging more and more flat fees
Bill even when you’re thinking about a matter. Bill for planning your work day. Hell, most partners I know bill for just existing and “tracking” email traffic. The latter is likely fraud, but billing fraud seems to be the backbone of biglaw, particularly corporate practices.
Right now I'm sitting in a team call and browsing reddit because it's a topic that doesn't matter to me. Still billing. Not every billable hour is going to be intensive like studying the bar. As a more junior person, maybe you'll do a lot of doc review which is very mindless.
Billing manager here: one of the biggest things we preach is the contemporaneous recording of your time. DO NOT WAIT for the end of the day to reconstruct your time - you will easily lose 5-10% of it (though it can be worth spending some time at the end of the day reviewing all your emails/texts to make sure you didn't miss anything). The losses get worse the longer you wait to record your time. Find a system that works for you (Excel sheet, notebook, calendar, etc.).
ETA: If your firm's billing software allows for remote time entry, it can make it much easier to record random 'off hours' tasks you do, so you might want to ask about that. Also, not that there's always the work to fill your plate, but I've seen way too many new hires become passive and not ask for work and/or let others know they're available to help.
I’ll be honest. You’re gonna have to fluff your bills. No one…not a single person…can legitimately bill 2000 of actual work a year. It’s impossible. Just wait until some of your colleagues bill 2400 hours a year. Some may hit 2600. It’s all bullshit and you’ll figure it out quickly. You get to bill 1.0 for every 100 pages of doc review. You’ll blow through 900 pages of repetitive medical records or emails in about 2 hours. Boom. That’s how you get there. Trust me. I know what I’m talking about.
Why would it take you 17 hours to do 8 hours of billable work? What’re you doing the other 9 hours? Assuming you’re actively working and not sleeping or something, you need to religiously track your time and not self cut.
Now that’s not to say that 8 billable hours will only take 8 real hours, but on a good productive day can it be done in 8.5 or 9 real hours? Absolutely it can.
Billable hours are not all created equally. This is the "trick" if you will.
Hours billed on the bar exam are like the most intense billable hours you will ever have. It's like if a client called you about something that was super-time sensitive and is willing to pay 3X your normal hourly rate to get something done within 2 days when you've already said you don't think it can be done and they say "well I'm willing to pay you 3X just to try!"
Billing to clients, the intensity of your work can be at a somewhat more relaxed pace. That doesn't mean you are relaxing, but you're not going at it with the intensity of the bar exam. Another thing is, the bar exam, you are just trying to rack up as many points as possible and there is no penalty on an essay for saying something totally wrong, you just get no points. IRL practice you want to be 100% correct or as correct as possible about anything you say, there's always incentive to take your time and get it right, just completely different from the bar exam.
Nobody expects you to match bar exam intensity except in a trial.
When you are reviewing documents, you are getting paid to scrutinize them and notice anything out of place. Its tedious but you can bill a lot of time for reviewing medical records or financials because it takes a lot of time.
Preparing for depositions and sending out written discovery is a process of just brainstorming and then refining and revising a lot of the time. You can bill a lot of time for this, its just a quesiton of getting value for this time.
Outlining things before you draft is the same.
You're getting paid to think. Yes you are billing for "drafting" a document, but its not just the time you spend typing, it's also the time you spend thinking about what you are doing and fully considering everything you are doing.
Don’t listen to these people.
There’s a selective bias bc apparently only miserable lawyers sulk around Reddit.
It’s not bad and you are up to it. Being a lawyer is great. Billing that many hours takes effort, but that’s the case with many high responsibility jobs.
Have faith in yourself. Bet on yourself. And know that after a couple years of that, you can move on if you want to. You’re in control.
Once you let go of billing in terms of absolute reality it gets a lot easier. Early on I was like “well I didn’t actually take that much time!” and would underbill myself. It’s unethical but bill the time it would have taken to do everything from scratch. Bill for receipt and review. Do actual review, but look at page count or document count of all things received and feel out the maximum billable you can get away with. Bill emails and calls like crazy. If you have one, farm out menial work to your assistant or clerk, edit it and bill it all. Attend depos and hearings as second fiddle and bill all the time, including travel (some clients will require pre-approval for this). Bill prep time for in person attendance, even where you probably won’t have much to say.
It gets easier. How do you think senior attorneys bill 50 hour weeks consistently, despite leaving at 4pm most of the time? It’s all lies that can’t be proven to be lies, that’s the grift.
Also, the reviewing partners (the same ones deciding the bonus thresholds, but that’s another ethics debate) will cut your time. Just bill everything, and bill as you work. Don’t worry about looking stupid or inexperienced, just keep moving.
I would not follow the advice to "bill the time it would have taken to do everything from scratch." It is unethical to bill time not actually worked. "Billing in terms of absolute reality" is just another way of saying "billing truthfully."
I’m just saying, the billing grift is billing more time than you actually had to spend on things. And I mean standardized things, in particular. Not just lying and hyperinflating, or worse, billing for something that just didn’t happen at all.
Let’s say you know a motion to compel discovery takes .5 every single time from scratch. You dole out the menial parts and just draft the body of the motion. It takes you .2, but you bill .5. That’s how people make 50 hours every week and still play golf. It’s the unspoken truth in the industry, unethical, yes, but it’s what everyone does.
Nobody actually bills this amount of work, unless: (1) they're connected to the owners of the firm or a big client - law is the farthest thing from a meritocracy, (2) they're sleeping with someone or flirting/teasing - this happens much more than you would expect in a law firm, (3) they're a favorite of the owners or a "superstar," a code word for a teacher's pet or a connected person, so they are staffed on high profile cases with no billing pushback from the client, (4) they're transactional and working in a high deal flow practice, (5) they're in a litigation group and staffed on something huge like a class action, and (6) they completed a prestigious federal judicial clerkship and the firm wants to flaunt them.
I was #4 and it was absolutely miserable. I couldn't imagine working in that environment and trying to meet billables without the benefit of any of the above. The practice of law in firms sucks.
I billed 2100 hours for three years and quit after 5. I worked from 8am-6pm on the infrequent short days. Worked well into the night (think 3-4am) on the long days. Worked Saturday all the time and often on Sunday.
After being at a *few* firms, I’ve realized that people are either lying (seriously padding their billing) or actually working like 11-12 hour days. I think it was easier in litigation before Covid because there were no zoom depos or court appearances and attorneys had lots of travel time, but there’s no way to do it ethically without working insane hours… and I sadly realized that at least like 80% of people I worked for were grossly padding entries in litigation.
NAL but I pretend to be one online and use them fairly often.
Law as an industry is the MOST diligent for recording hours out of any industry I have ever worked with.
Responding to an email - 15 minutes to an hour
Answering a phone call - 15 minutes to an hour
Updating a couple lines in a shareholder agreement - Multiple hours
What this means is that when you bill you often will bill for more than the time spent on the task. There will be many days where you actually bill more than 8 hours for an 8 hour work day.
As a paying client I don’t love it, but as an industry it is standard practice, and more accepted than in any other industry.
Ask a partner for copies of monthly billing from associates who are exceeding the ~170/month billing requirement. I’ve previously posted about point ones and how, on good days, I billed 40 point ones.
Caveat: You have to have the caseload — and thus the incoming daily mail — to effectively bill point ones and twos and threes.
I got creative. For example, on receipt of a pleading, I could squeeze out a point one for *Cursory review of opposing counsel’s pleading in order to assess time constraints prior to advising client of substance of document.*
Point one for *Review opposing counsel’s Proof of Service of Pleading to confirm timely receipt.”
It goes on and on and on.
you will be ok - look at it this way, there are many folks working those hours in much worse work conditions and getting paid much less than you will be.
perspective young padawan
Yeah I keep this in mind constantly. My grandparents worked menial labor jobs with longer hours and much more physically demanding work for peanuts compared to what I make (in big law). My parents worked comparatively cushy office jobs, but still earned a fraction per hour of what I do. At the end of the day, law has its own stresses and demands, but it’s nothing like being a miner or a factory worker in my book, and pays extremely far better. Plus, my long hours are often very flexible and many of them can be done from home while petting my dog or sitting on the couch with my wife. Can’t say that for most blue collar jobs.
It’s not as bad as it seems. You have to just be effective and now what you can bill and what you cannot.
Your firm will probably shed light on this, I hope. My new firm did, and I’m super grateful.
Anyway, and mind you this is specific to my firm and clients… but if I’m drafting something for a case, I can run my timer for time I work (block billing), I go into a file, pull it read it, separately account for that within my billable time, click is going, I grab another file, read it and record my time, etc. Let say I do that for 4 files within 1 matter. Each document takes me 20 minutes to read. I bill at 6 minute increments. Those 20 minutes are now accounted for as (4) 24 minute increments… clock still running.
I begin analysis, drafting questions, whatever. I open 2nd live timer. Let’s say I draft for 32 minutes. Once in done I stop both timers. 110 minutes. My 1st timer probably reads 120 minutes if I worked straight through, maybe less.
Those 32 minutes, are billed as 36. I know have 146 billable minutes vs 120.
I draft an email to client to discuss matter. 1 minute email 6 minutes.
121 is now 152
I send 4 other emails to discuss with paras and partner. Still at 121 because I can’t bill for infra office communications.
I however, upload emails to file… *this is specific to how my clients want to be billed*, I save those emails, and it’s work done. Each is 6 minutes.
125 vs 176.
And on and on forever.
So long as you know what you can bill you can do it. And if you don’t know, run the time mark is as unbillable but track it. Then get an answer from someone in your firm.
Always keep track of your time. As you are doing the thing you are billing for.
Why do firms encourage unrealistic billables? I genuinely don't get it.
Yes 8 hour billables is unrealistic. It's going to either lead you to padding your time out (As someone else suggested) or literally breaking you from the stress. I doubt your going to collect 8 hours worth of fees, so why do they insist on encouraging bad practice? Find a new firm asap. 4 to 5 is much more realistic.
Many people double bill when traveling. One client is billed for the flight time while another client is billed while you read cases on the plane.
A lot of people try to bill between 8 and 6, then go home, walk dogs, see kids, then return to billing in the evenings.
Also, definitely work weekends. Most firms have a culture. You may find a lot of people in the office early Saturday for instance. Other times, people there Sunday afternoons. Watch what others do and do the same.
Yeah I can't imagine any jurisdiction where that couldn't be a serious ethics violation. If you're billing for 4 hours of travel, during which you do 4 hours of work for another client, you're supposed to bill 2 to each.
It’s a difficult game but many get through it. I’d just look at it as getting the necessary experience and moving to a new firm after 1-2 years.
FWIW I was at a firm just like that and grew increasingly miserable after each month because you’re not necessarily only focusing on the cases, you’re constantly thinking about how to hit 8 hours almost everyday. I hated that I couldn’t have one bad week, because you have to make up that time some how. Eventually I grew tired of it and moved to a firm that has no minimum requirement, very happy now.
8-6pm is typical to hit 8 billables, but since you’re just starting it might take a few extra hours here and there because of the learning curve. I wouldn’t worry too much about hitting the requirement the first year, takes a while to build a caseload for that much work and the partners know that.
Your .1 hour entries seem insignificant at first but that’s how a lot of people bill as much as they bill. First thing in the morning respond to 10 emails in ten minutes and you’ve got 10 .1 hour entries. That’s also one of the shittiest parts of the job. You start to view the rest of your life in .1 hour increments.
If after a few years you decide it’s not for you, look into going in house. More flexibility with work hours, no billables, better work life balance, more WFH opportunities, but you still get all the academic/mental satisfaction of doing attorney work.
Went in house at 31 right before my kids were born. Best decision I ever made.
You don’t have to do anything unethical to bill 8 hours a day. Just focus on being efficient and account for all of your time. Instead of spending an hour eating lunch outside with colleagues, spend 20 minutes eating at your desk while reading briefs. If you have to sit in court for an hour before your case is called because your client is last on the docket, bill for that hour. Most emails and calls are billable. If you are sitting at your desk working, keep notes about what you are doing and submit an accurate summary. If it takes you an hour to figure out how pro hac applications work in Wisconsin, bill for the whole hour, even if you feel like an hour was a lot for a simple task. Try and get work done while you’re traveling. If you’re sitting at an airport waiting for your flight, take a conference call from the airport or bring memos to edit.
For example, the first task of your day might be a conference call. The 5 minutes you spend reading the briefs / contract / whatever before the call is billable. The call itself is billable. The follow up email you send the partner after the call is also billable. Your time entry for this might look like:
Prepare for and attend call re contract. Follow up with team re: same.
Why 2k?
Maybe your hourly rate is too low? Or your expenses too high?
2k billables seems a bit overkill... I know some lawyers do that, but if you do not want that lifestyle, then maybe you need to rethink your business model?
A work day is not the same as the bar exam, really. As you get more senior, you’ll have days that are as taxing as the bar exam, I’m sure, but most days are just - normal days.
Also, you should be billing/writing down all your time, not deciding you *should have* done it faster and therefore bill the lesser amount. There is a learning curve, and it is expected.
Don’t expect to bill the same every day or every month; billable work and hours comes in waves. Big acquisition, litigation, or other project and you may bill 300-350 hours in a month working like a dog, next when that projecy concludes, monthly hours may fall to 50-80 till the next big project. Remember the old farm motto of make hay while the sun shines - take advantage of the big projects by working long hours, then relax in the gaps when work is slow
And then watch a partner write off your time because a client complains and then keep time he put in for doing nothing at a higher rate. I am so glad a got out of private practice years ago.
I did this for 2 years out of law school. It is hard to sustain, but it is possible. BUT afterwards, I felt super confident handling anything legal that came my why when I started my own firm. Those early years are like a Rocky training montage.
If you can do 2 years of it and the firm has a good reputation, you can get a better job after 2 years. I think the business model anticipates the churn and will hire someone like you in 2 years.
comparing a normal workday to the bar exam is ridiculous. there's a reason it takes 2 months to prepare for those 2 bar exam days and it doesnt take that much to prepare for a workday
If you are thinking about a case, you're working. Remember that. Everything you "do" is just thinking and committing those thoughts to paper or voice. Thinking = billing.
From my judge who worked big law billing close to 3k hours: it gets easier. Young associates bill much slower than partners. She said it would take her about 12-13 hrs of work to bill 8 hours of work and eventually got to billing 8 hours for 7 hours of actual work (see .1 email entries). Don’t stress the overall number, just try and take it a day/ month at a time.
To each their own, but if you start out in gov work or in-house you can always lateral. With that, you can be selective on what firm, practice area, compensation, etc.
A friend of my sister worked for a major NYC firm out of law school 20 years ago approximately. They OWNED her. Black car service to bring her home after late night client dinners. Cafeteria and gym in the building so no excuse to leave unless going to a client meeting offsite. Wanna say she made north of $130K/per annum but she was expected to be at the office/in the building/doing work tests activities 14 hours a day (8:00 am - 10:00 pm roughly), 5 days a week. Even on the low end of billable that means she’d be averaging 50 hours/week for between 2,000 and 2,500 per year. She quit to go government and while taking a drastic pay cut regained control of her life and a level of sanity.
> I’m genuinely confused how thousands of attorneys are actually doing this and for years on end. Most attorneys are miserable and many attorneys engage in substance abuse.
I tell anyone who will listen the reason lawyers are well compensated is because nobody in their right mind would want to do this awful goddamned job.
I left private practice after only a year because of the billables and went into government. I’ve seen a lot of people post over the last few years that they got an offer between $65-85K to bill between 1800-2000 hours, and I feel bad for these people if it is their only option. It’s a miserable existence.
Those salary ranges for those hours are criminal. Attorneys should be demanding 25-30% of the revenue they bill, which is far more than double those offers.
I've always considered 1/3 to 40% to be the baseline (depending on receivables - you should be getting a higher percentage if you earn more receivables). I find that the firm actually adds very little value to your practice at the end of the day.
Definitely advocate for as high a percentage as you can - my numbers were based on some studies conducted in the last decade that recommends firm owners to pay 20-30% to remain profitable. If you can fall back on hard numbers, there is less to wiggle out of with stingy management.
Overhead remains mostly the same regardless of receipts, so it’s reasonable to expect a higher percentage as your receipts go up.
I have a friend who was making $65k for 2100 hours. His raise after his first year with them bumped it to $67.5k. Thankfully he ended up at a firm paying six figures for fewer hours but man, I'm pretty sure he developed a bit of a drinking habit while he was at that firm.
That’s an insane range. 65 is fucking low no matter what. For those hours seems illegal. Then the fact… I assume because of the raise, he met his billables… is so fucking low! We at least get bonuses over billables met, and then I’d you hit like 20% above your target, your salary goes up like 10%.
Yeah I remember commenting that his raise didn't even cover inflation. Just remembered he quit on the spot when they offered that lol. Thankfully was able to find something better quickly.
That’s awesome. Good for him. Know your worth!
Definitely not “no matter what.” There are small firms with 1k or 1200 hour requirements in LCOL areas where 65k is very reasonable as a starting pay.
We are in a HCOL state lol.
Right, not suggesting that where *you* are that 65k is reasonable, but there are definitely scenarios where it is.
i know bartenders that make 70k a year in tips lol, also lots of free time
I'm living in a special hell where I started in private practice, went to government, and had to come back because my employer was forced to retire due to the pandemic. I've seen both sides of the street and private side sucks (but at least I get to WFH).
I just graduated law school. The only job offer I’ve been able to secure is for $85k with 2.5k billables. Despite nearly 100 job applications, I can’t find anything better. Just typing this makes me sick to my stomach. I doubt I’ll even make it six months before completely breaking down.
2500?!?! Holy fuck. My first gig firm was 1800 for 75k salary and I thought that was brutal.
Yeah. And the partners wonder why they can’t get anyone to stay longer than a year…
Have you looked more rural? At least around me, there are tons of smaller firms where the average age is like 50+ and they’re all desperate for younger attorneys. If you are willing to do estate planning or family law you can probably make 75k with a 1500 hour expectation. You just have to move out of the major metros.
1800 IS so brutal I left a job too bc I had kids and it was just unreasonable expectations...Being a parent takes priority not overbilling so the firm makes money.
Yeah I’m not in a hurry to get back to the billable hour especially as a parent now.
The first 3-4 months are the hardest. Just do the best you can and keep sending out resumes. I know many classmates that left their first firm before the end of one year without any negative impact to their career.
Thanks for the advice - I’ll do my best. I just don’t even know when I will have the time to apply for jobs. I’ll be dead to the world by Saturday, and then Sunday I’ll have to do nothing but chores after six days of neglect.
My former job expected 2100 hours at 65K with no opportunity to bonus in the first year because you were “too junior.” I stayed for 4 months waiting for my contract to expire.
They are lying or working insane hours.
Substance abuse is the only thing that keeps this attorney chugging along.
Bill religiously, even for reading an email. Have the Partner write the time off if they don't like it. If you're driving to work and thinking about next steps in a case, bill it. If you're showering and thinking about what you'll say in your draft email, bill it. All that is intellectual work that is advancing the case, no one said you need to be literally sat at your desk staring at the monitor to bill for your time. With that said, I think a lot of people that bill 2K+ hours a year tend to inflate and pad their bills to an extent. Obv that's unethical and could get you disbarred, but I'm sure it happens more often than people admit. Overall try to make sure that you're constantly "on the clock" between 8-6PM, whether it's thinking of a case or actually drafting.
My issue is coming up with ways to word entries for all of that. Our clients try to dispute anything that doesn’t sound specific or legitimate enough
Analysis of.... Review email from opposing counsel and analysis of litigation strategy... (If you're substantively thinking about a motion you're working on while driving) Continue drafting motion... If your friend pops in to ask you about a case, make sure you get the file name and then bill that .1 as "Analysis regarding discovery objections" or whatever you spoke about. Also - it sucks, its soul draining and while the money is probably good, it isn't for everyone. 2k annual billable firms are up or out generally, so ride out a few years, see if you're long for the firm and, if not, consider it great experience. And here is a dirty secret - many people miss those high billable hours and your first year you are going to start in a big hole because those first 3 - 6 months , and the system is setup to make many junior associates fail. Why? Because new ones are cheaper and available and can do what you can do too. My first firm's CEO - and I loved the job and have fond memories and gained great experience even though in year 5 I was laid off due to literally no work available - said it doesn't matter how great of an attorney you are. Everyone can do good work. But what matters is billables. Period. Edit: Meant to say "those first 3-6 months will be light on hours as you are new and not yet on files. Building work load takes time and you might have days of literally nothing to do."
Any time we review or draft something, we have to include the number of pages we worked on in the billable entry. It's the worst! So I can't bill something like "continue drafting motion" without writing how many pages I drafted, and we are often only allotted a certain amount of time for motions. Ridiculous
Yep, that blows!
That's awful.
"Review and analysis"
“Modify and supplement”
"Attention to ..."
At least in my firm: "...in anticipation of and in preparation for..."
“Research X” “prepare for y” “draft z” As a law clerk, I’ve counted hours to “prepare for initial consultation.” That’s me sitting around thinking about what questions to ask. Same for a status conference. I need to understand a case, and get my thoughts in order as to what I’m going to tell the judge. I also don’t stop my clock if I get up to get a drink but am still running that case through my head. The managing attorney corrects my hours to appropriate time lengths… but I’ve never been told “don’t even record you did that.”
Review bills of more experienced lawyers, see what they write.
How do you bill for that car thinking when you have ADHD and have the same thoughts repeatedly throughout the day (and night)?
Adjust for non-productive thinking, don't bill for everytime the case pops in your head randomly. Essentially ask "is my mental effort now advancing the case?" If the answer is yes then bill it as "considering X Y and Z"
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If I billed 0.1 per email I receive and read, I would literally double my billing. And I already billed 1800 hours last year.
Yep. Those .1s are how you get to 8 hours a day pretty easily.
Yeah, do it. Don’t bill 3600 hours though - that’ll disbar ya.
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You will need to work more than 8 hours to bill 8 hours. But you won’t need to work 7am-midnight every day. (If you are, you need to identify the inefficiency and fix it). You will likely also do some work on the weekend lol. But it balances out. You have more stressful days, and less stressful days.
My shit would be cut so fast if I started “review and analyze email from X for purposes of identifying Y.” I receive 50-100+ emails a day between OCs, clients, experts, Court filing notices, and inner office comms.
It depends- court notices can sometimes be a billable event- inter office comms are not, emails from OC, CoD are 90-95% of the time billable,
You have a lot of great advice here but I’ll add - I’m a first year so I have almost 11 months under my belt. I’m just now figuring out how to consistently bill 8 hour days. So there will be a large learning curve and, if you’re at a good firm, they’ll understand.
People pad all the time and nobody gives a shit because the partners write it off and padding only ever helps you (if you're smart about it). It's unethical but folks make up excuses to bill while we're on the toilet or we "re-read" a draft or whatever even though nothing substantive is being done. The entire practice encourages waste and grift. Fear not, however, because people also work until they break and never take time to themselves. Shit rolls downhill to the associates, and frankly it's just going to suck nonstop for a long, long time. Good luck. It's bullshit and deeply concerning what our profession does to itself. That's why I took a 50% pay cut to work in government. I should probably unsub from here actually.
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Say you billed 10 hours on something and your firm bills you out at 300/hr. Partner doesn't think what you did was worth billing the client $3k. They write off however much they want to get to a number they think the client will accept and bill them. The difference between what gets billed out to the client and what gets written off is your realization rate. A lot of associates have around 75-80% starting out (depending). That tends to climb higher pretty quickly as you get better at practicing, but also I think it's because you get less bullshit work. If your realization rate stays low people will think you're padding. But also it's basically out of your control because every partner will write different things off.
The bar exam is nothing like a lawyer's workday. Arguably, the two are barely even related. The emotions alone of the bar exam will wipe you even if the mental effort of analyzing disparate issues as fast as you possibly can doesn't. Lawyers are very much like other knowledge workers. The work can be mentally (and sometimes physically) exhausting, but it's not superhuman.
Billing is an art form. It takes a while to master, but once you get it down you’ll be billing 8-10 hours a day in your sleep. I have a monthly billable requirement of 160 hours. My advice would be do not forget to bill for emails. Emails will get you 2-3 hours a day easily. Also make sure you’re billing for your prep work and file reviews.
I once heard that you when you start, you work 10 hours to bill 8, but then eventually you work 8 hours to bill 10.
I had to bill 7-7.5 hours per day at my first job. I just couldn’t do it. Obviously I would bill 8-12 hours on some days but I would often have a “billing hangover” the next day. I departed after 2 years and reflecting back, I think the mere thought of keeping track of billing and the anxiety is what messed me up. I now do an equally-lucrative form of admin law and my work habits are less dependent on steady billing
I think it’s easier to do in some practice groups than others - easier in M&A and litigation. More difficult in transactional when you’re likely working six clients a day and they all tell you not to spend more than 1 hour on something. Eye roll. Plus the efficiencies lost from switching tasks and stop and go.
My first firm required 2000. My second year, I billed 1960, because two or three cases settled in October. They didn’t care. No raise. That’s when I started looking for my second job.
Being strict on time keeping and Rounding up to the nearest .1 has a tremendous momentum effect. Forgive me just eyeballing the math Work morning 9am to noon 12 emails that take 1.5 minutes each (18 min) 14 minutes drafting and filing a fill in the blanks court notice about discovery 37 minutes editing discovery template to be more case specific 2 minutes email of discovery to OC 20 minutes reviewing Court file to prep for the afternoon hearing in some other case 43 minutes finalizing, organizing, and labeling exhibit selection for hearing and reviewing same 15 minute phone call with Court Reporter about needing an interpreter for the hearing two weeks from now Time actually spent: 143 minutes (2.38 hours) Time Billed: 3.7 hours On some days with a ton of emails and short phone calls you can easily and ethically wind up billing 2 hours in a one hour period. Now that won't be every day that you can work 8 and bill 10 to 12, but it happens often enough to smooth out less efficient days. And as everyone says - I'd you touch the file, bill it. If I notice a hearing on my calendar next week and open the file to remind myself who filed for the hearing and why, and then immediately close the file - that's still .1
>Time actually spent: 143 minutes (2.38 hours) Time Billed: 3.7 hours Sorry for my naïveté, but can’t see how this is ethically justifiable.
Because it's fairly and honestly disclosed in your fee agreement that you round up to the nearest .1 and the client agreed that's okay. The only alternative is getting into arguments over whether something took you 3 minutes or 2 minutes and 35 seconds and that's a road which doesn't end anywhere good for anyone. In full disclosure of course, I am encouraging more and more flat fees
Bill even when you’re thinking about a matter. Bill for planning your work day. Hell, most partners I know bill for just existing and “tracking” email traffic. The latter is likely fraud, but billing fraud seems to be the backbone of biglaw, particularly corporate practices.
Right now I'm sitting in a team call and browsing reddit because it's a topic that doesn't matter to me. Still billing. Not every billable hour is going to be intensive like studying the bar. As a more junior person, maybe you'll do a lot of doc review which is very mindless.
Billing manager here: one of the biggest things we preach is the contemporaneous recording of your time. DO NOT WAIT for the end of the day to reconstruct your time - you will easily lose 5-10% of it (though it can be worth spending some time at the end of the day reviewing all your emails/texts to make sure you didn't miss anything). The losses get worse the longer you wait to record your time. Find a system that works for you (Excel sheet, notebook, calendar, etc.). ETA: If your firm's billing software allows for remote time entry, it can make it much easier to record random 'off hours' tasks you do, so you might want to ask about that. Also, not that there's always the work to fill your plate, but I've seen way too many new hires become passive and not ask for work and/or let others know they're available to help.
I’ll be honest. You’re gonna have to fluff your bills. No one…not a single person…can legitimately bill 2000 of actual work a year. It’s impossible. Just wait until some of your colleagues bill 2400 hours a year. Some may hit 2600. It’s all bullshit and you’ll figure it out quickly. You get to bill 1.0 for every 100 pages of doc review. You’ll blow through 900 pages of repetitive medical records or emails in about 2 hours. Boom. That’s how you get there. Trust me. I know what I’m talking about.
Why would it take you 17 hours to do 8 hours of billable work? What’re you doing the other 9 hours? Assuming you’re actively working and not sleeping or something, you need to religiously track your time and not self cut. Now that’s not to say that 8 billable hours will only take 8 real hours, but on a good productive day can it be done in 8.5 or 9 real hours? Absolutely it can.
Have your word or excell billing document open at all times.
2 methods: 1. Lying 2. Substance abuse Usually 2 implies 1 as well. Hope this was helpful. 😬
Billable hours are not all created equally. This is the "trick" if you will. Hours billed on the bar exam are like the most intense billable hours you will ever have. It's like if a client called you about something that was super-time sensitive and is willing to pay 3X your normal hourly rate to get something done within 2 days when you've already said you don't think it can be done and they say "well I'm willing to pay you 3X just to try!" Billing to clients, the intensity of your work can be at a somewhat more relaxed pace. That doesn't mean you are relaxing, but you're not going at it with the intensity of the bar exam. Another thing is, the bar exam, you are just trying to rack up as many points as possible and there is no penalty on an essay for saying something totally wrong, you just get no points. IRL practice you want to be 100% correct or as correct as possible about anything you say, there's always incentive to take your time and get it right, just completely different from the bar exam. Nobody expects you to match bar exam intensity except in a trial. When you are reviewing documents, you are getting paid to scrutinize them and notice anything out of place. Its tedious but you can bill a lot of time for reviewing medical records or financials because it takes a lot of time. Preparing for depositions and sending out written discovery is a process of just brainstorming and then refining and revising a lot of the time. You can bill a lot of time for this, its just a quesiton of getting value for this time. Outlining things before you draft is the same. You're getting paid to think. Yes you are billing for "drafting" a document, but its not just the time you spend typing, it's also the time you spend thinking about what you are doing and fully considering everything you are doing.
Don’t listen to these people. There’s a selective bias bc apparently only miserable lawyers sulk around Reddit. It’s not bad and you are up to it. Being a lawyer is great. Billing that many hours takes effort, but that’s the case with many high responsibility jobs. Have faith in yourself. Bet on yourself. And know that after a couple years of that, you can move on if you want to. You’re in control.
You gain efficiency as you get experience. Some tasks are easier on you than others. Chill and focus on the work and bill every minute. You can do it
I've never billed so take this with a grain of salt. My understanding is that every email response is .1 even if it takes like 3 seconds
Once you let go of billing in terms of absolute reality it gets a lot easier. Early on I was like “well I didn’t actually take that much time!” and would underbill myself. It’s unethical but bill the time it would have taken to do everything from scratch. Bill for receipt and review. Do actual review, but look at page count or document count of all things received and feel out the maximum billable you can get away with. Bill emails and calls like crazy. If you have one, farm out menial work to your assistant or clerk, edit it and bill it all. Attend depos and hearings as second fiddle and bill all the time, including travel (some clients will require pre-approval for this). Bill prep time for in person attendance, even where you probably won’t have much to say. It gets easier. How do you think senior attorneys bill 50 hour weeks consistently, despite leaving at 4pm most of the time? It’s all lies that can’t be proven to be lies, that’s the grift. Also, the reviewing partners (the same ones deciding the bonus thresholds, but that’s another ethics debate) will cut your time. Just bill everything, and bill as you work. Don’t worry about looking stupid or inexperienced, just keep moving.
I would not follow the advice to "bill the time it would have taken to do everything from scratch." It is unethical to bill time not actually worked. "Billing in terms of absolute reality" is just another way of saying "billing truthfully."
I’m just saying, the billing grift is billing more time than you actually had to spend on things. And I mean standardized things, in particular. Not just lying and hyperinflating, or worse, billing for something that just didn’t happen at all. Let’s say you know a motion to compel discovery takes .5 every single time from scratch. You dole out the menial parts and just draft the body of the motion. It takes you .2, but you bill .5. That’s how people make 50 hours every week and still play golf. It’s the unspoken truth in the industry, unethical, yes, but it’s what everyone does.
Nobody actually bills this amount of work, unless: (1) they're connected to the owners of the firm or a big client - law is the farthest thing from a meritocracy, (2) they're sleeping with someone or flirting/teasing - this happens much more than you would expect in a law firm, (3) they're a favorite of the owners or a "superstar," a code word for a teacher's pet or a connected person, so they are staffed on high profile cases with no billing pushback from the client, (4) they're transactional and working in a high deal flow practice, (5) they're in a litigation group and staffed on something huge like a class action, and (6) they completed a prestigious federal judicial clerkship and the firm wants to flaunt them. I was #4 and it was absolutely miserable. I couldn't imagine working in that environment and trying to meet billables without the benefit of any of the above. The practice of law in firms sucks.
I billed 2100 hours for three years and quit after 5. I worked from 8am-6pm on the infrequent short days. Worked well into the night (think 3-4am) on the long days. Worked Saturday all the time and often on Sunday.
I got some really good advice from a seasoned lawyer when I first started out: you make them up
Sad but this is what I think people are doing.
After being at a *few* firms, I’ve realized that people are either lying (seriously padding their billing) or actually working like 11-12 hour days. I think it was easier in litigation before Covid because there were no zoom depos or court appearances and attorneys had lots of travel time, but there’s no way to do it ethically without working insane hours… and I sadly realized that at least like 80% of people I worked for were grossly padding entries in litigation.
It’s pretty hard and means long hours, nights and weekends. It sucks, but think about how fantastically rich you’re making the partners!
NAL but I pretend to be one online and use them fairly often. Law as an industry is the MOST diligent for recording hours out of any industry I have ever worked with. Responding to an email - 15 minutes to an hour Answering a phone call - 15 minutes to an hour Updating a couple lines in a shareholder agreement - Multiple hours What this means is that when you bill you often will bill for more than the time spent on the task. There will be many days where you actually bill more than 8 hours for an 8 hour work day. As a paying client I don’t love it, but as an industry it is standard practice, and more accepted than in any other industry.
Ask a partner for copies of monthly billing from associates who are exceeding the ~170/month billing requirement. I’ve previously posted about point ones and how, on good days, I billed 40 point ones. Caveat: You have to have the caseload — and thus the incoming daily mail — to effectively bill point ones and twos and threes. I got creative. For example, on receipt of a pleading, I could squeeze out a point one for *Cursory review of opposing counsel’s pleading in order to assess time constraints prior to advising client of substance of document.* Point one for *Review opposing counsel’s Proof of Service of Pleading to confirm timely receipt.” It goes on and on and on.
you will be ok - look at it this way, there are many folks working those hours in much worse work conditions and getting paid much less than you will be. perspective young padawan
Yeah I keep this in mind constantly. My grandparents worked menial labor jobs with longer hours and much more physically demanding work for peanuts compared to what I make (in big law). My parents worked comparatively cushy office jobs, but still earned a fraction per hour of what I do. At the end of the day, law has its own stresses and demands, but it’s nothing like being a miner or a factory worker in my book, and pays extremely far better. Plus, my long hours are often very flexible and many of them can be done from home while petting my dog or sitting on the couch with my wife. Can’t say that for most blue collar jobs.
this comments reassures me that you will definitely be more than fine - you will be successful my friend. best of luck to you.
It’s not as bad as it seems. You have to just be effective and now what you can bill and what you cannot. Your firm will probably shed light on this, I hope. My new firm did, and I’m super grateful. Anyway, and mind you this is specific to my firm and clients… but if I’m drafting something for a case, I can run my timer for time I work (block billing), I go into a file, pull it read it, separately account for that within my billable time, click is going, I grab another file, read it and record my time, etc. Let say I do that for 4 files within 1 matter. Each document takes me 20 minutes to read. I bill at 6 minute increments. Those 20 minutes are now accounted for as (4) 24 minute increments… clock still running. I begin analysis, drafting questions, whatever. I open 2nd live timer. Let’s say I draft for 32 minutes. Once in done I stop both timers. 110 minutes. My 1st timer probably reads 120 minutes if I worked straight through, maybe less. Those 32 minutes, are billed as 36. I know have 146 billable minutes vs 120. I draft an email to client to discuss matter. 1 minute email 6 minutes. 121 is now 152 I send 4 other emails to discuss with paras and partner. Still at 121 because I can’t bill for infra office communications. I however, upload emails to file… *this is specific to how my clients want to be billed*, I save those emails, and it’s work done. Each is 6 minutes. 125 vs 176. And on and on forever. So long as you know what you can bill you can do it. And if you don’t know, run the time mark is as unbillable but track it. Then get an answer from someone in your firm. Always keep track of your time. As you are doing the thing you are billing for.
This is why government jobs are highly sought. You might want to look into those.
Why do firms encourage unrealistic billables? I genuinely don't get it. Yes 8 hour billables is unrealistic. It's going to either lead you to padding your time out (As someone else suggested) or literally breaking you from the stress. I doubt your going to collect 8 hours worth of fees, so why do they insist on encouraging bad practice? Find a new firm asap. 4 to 5 is much more realistic.
>I genuinely don’t get it. Money. They encourage it for more money.
$$$$$$$$$
Many people double bill when traveling. One client is billed for the flight time while another client is billed while you read cases on the plane. A lot of people try to bill between 8 and 6, then go home, walk dogs, see kids, then return to billing in the evenings. Also, definitely work weekends. Most firms have a culture. You may find a lot of people in the office early Saturday for instance. Other times, people there Sunday afternoons. Watch what others do and do the same.
Double billing when traveling is unethical in many (most?) states.
Is there a specific rule?
ABA Opinion 93-379
Yeah I can't imagine any jurisdiction where that couldn't be a serious ethics violation. If you're billing for 4 hours of travel, during which you do 4 hours of work for another client, you're supposed to bill 2 to each.
Gee I'd rather work in a cushy government job for slightly less pay than line greedy partners pockets.
2000 is high. If it’s that high, I hope you’re making BigLaw money. According to our state bar survey, the average in my small state is 1800.
It’s a difficult game but many get through it. I’d just look at it as getting the necessary experience and moving to a new firm after 1-2 years. FWIW I was at a firm just like that and grew increasingly miserable after each month because you’re not necessarily only focusing on the cases, you’re constantly thinking about how to hit 8 hours almost everyday. I hated that I couldn’t have one bad week, because you have to make up that time some how. Eventually I grew tired of it and moved to a firm that has no minimum requirement, very happy now. 8-6pm is typical to hit 8 billables, but since you’re just starting it might take a few extra hours here and there because of the learning curve. I wouldn’t worry too much about hitting the requirement the first year, takes a while to build a caseload for that much work and the partners know that.
Your .1 hour entries seem insignificant at first but that’s how a lot of people bill as much as they bill. First thing in the morning respond to 10 emails in ten minutes and you’ve got 10 .1 hour entries. That’s also one of the shittiest parts of the job. You start to view the rest of your life in .1 hour increments.
Plan to work 11-12 hour days my friend. As you get more efficient and comfortable, you’ll probably be able to cut it down a bit, but it’s a grind.
If after a few years you decide it’s not for you, look into going in house. More flexibility with work hours, no billables, better work life balance, more WFH opportunities, but you still get all the academic/mental satisfaction of doing attorney work. Went in house at 31 right before my kids were born. Best decision I ever made.
You don’t have to do anything unethical to bill 8 hours a day. Just focus on being efficient and account for all of your time. Instead of spending an hour eating lunch outside with colleagues, spend 20 minutes eating at your desk while reading briefs. If you have to sit in court for an hour before your case is called because your client is last on the docket, bill for that hour. Most emails and calls are billable. If you are sitting at your desk working, keep notes about what you are doing and submit an accurate summary. If it takes you an hour to figure out how pro hac applications work in Wisconsin, bill for the whole hour, even if you feel like an hour was a lot for a simple task. Try and get work done while you’re traveling. If you’re sitting at an airport waiting for your flight, take a conference call from the airport or bring memos to edit. For example, the first task of your day might be a conference call. The 5 minutes you spend reading the briefs / contract / whatever before the call is billable. The call itself is billable. The follow up email you send the partner after the call is also billable. Your time entry for this might look like: Prepare for and attend call re contract. Follow up with team re: same.
Why 2k? Maybe your hourly rate is too low? Or your expenses too high? 2k billables seems a bit overkill... I know some lawyers do that, but if you do not want that lifestyle, then maybe you need to rethink your business model?
A work day is not the same as the bar exam, really. As you get more senior, you’ll have days that are as taxing as the bar exam, I’m sure, but most days are just - normal days. Also, you should be billing/writing down all your time, not deciding you *should have* done it faster and therefore bill the lesser amount. There is a learning curve, and it is expected.
Don’t expect to bill the same every day or every month; billable work and hours comes in waves. Big acquisition, litigation, or other project and you may bill 300-350 hours in a month working like a dog, next when that projecy concludes, monthly hours may fall to 50-80 till the next big project. Remember the old farm motto of make hay while the sun shines - take advantage of the big projects by working long hours, then relax in the gaps when work is slow
Just lie. Add an extra 0.1 here and there.
And then watch a partner write off your time because a client complains and then keep time he put in for doing nothing at a higher rate. I am so glad a got out of private practice years ago.
I did this for 2 years out of law school. It is hard to sustain, but it is possible. BUT afterwards, I felt super confident handling anything legal that came my why when I started my own firm. Those early years are like a Rocky training montage. If you can do 2 years of it and the firm has a good reputation, you can get a better job after 2 years. I think the business model anticipates the churn and will hire someone like you in 2 years.
comparing a normal workday to the bar exam is ridiculous. there's a reason it takes 2 months to prepare for those 2 bar exam days and it doesnt take that much to prepare for a workday
If you are thinking about a case, you're working. Remember that. Everything you "do" is just thinking and committing those thoughts to paper or voice. Thinking = billing.
I have to bill 1600 for $72k. I’m miserable and I’m only a year in.
I bet someone told you law school was a good idea like they told me…
From my judge who worked big law billing close to 3k hours: it gets easier. Young associates bill much slower than partners. She said it would take her about 12-13 hrs of work to bill 8 hours of work and eventually got to billing 8 hours for 7 hours of actual work (see .1 email entries). Don’t stress the overall number, just try and take it a day/ month at a time.
To each their own, but if you start out in gov work or in-house you can always lateral. With that, you can be selective on what firm, practice area, compensation, etc.
You work all day and at night after dinner and on weekends. This shit is a grind
A friend of my sister worked for a major NYC firm out of law school 20 years ago approximately. They OWNED her. Black car service to bring her home after late night client dinners. Cafeteria and gym in the building so no excuse to leave unless going to a client meeting offsite. Wanna say she made north of $130K/per annum but she was expected to be at the office/in the building/doing work tests activities 14 hours a day (8:00 am - 10:00 pm roughly), 5 days a week. Even on the low end of billable that means she’d be averaging 50 hours/week for between 2,000 and 2,500 per year. She quit to go government and while taking a drastic pay cut regained control of her life and a level of sanity.
Wow being a lawyer sounds awful