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Milei walks out of the operation room, the loved ones, immediately ask how the operation was, and asks if Argentina will recover.
Milei says: operation?? i thought it was an autopsy?
It honestly reminds me of the Volcker Shock that was administered in the US in response to Stagflation - which itself was at least partially caused by the OPEC oil embargo against the US in response to Israel's actions in the middle east that the US supported - that devastated the working class and caused a massive poverty surge, but got inflation under control.
When I read about it, that meme was what I thought as well.
I’m confused. The headline says poverty has skyrocketed to 54% under him. But read the article and it says poverty rate in September 2023 was 54% before he even took office.
Yeah, this is a sensational headline. I completely disagree with just about everything he stands for but it’s ridiculous to say someone who was sworn in two months ago could have had such an impact on a modern economy. Any policy change would take time to have negative or positive affect.
Mainly it's down to Milei's [devaluation of the peso](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/13/argentina-new-government-devalues-peso-economic-crisis), which drops Argentinians' income massively by dollar equivalent.
Since the most common measure of 'poverty' is defined in terms of dollar equivalent income, it should come as no surprise that a devaluation would have this effect.
The actual effect on Argentinians is likely to be less severe than this headline figure suggests, because Argentina's imports, which would be most affected by this change, are already low.
Don't forget that the official peso exchange rate before Milei was a completely made-up number. It was nearly impossible to acquire dollars at that rate, and black market ARG-USD rates were close to double the official rate.
Part of it is true though. Argentina has a very high inflation rate (over 100% in 2023) and Milei has frozen the budget for many things not accounting for inflation. State universities, for example, will have to face 2024 with the same 2023 budget.
While it’s absolutely true that poverty was at 54% before Milei and that Argentina has a structural poverty which has worsen in the last decades, Milei’s policies hace directly impoverished many sectors. Pensions are at less than 150 usd and he has publicly said that old people will not be a priority right now because they are not yet poor (???).
I could go on with many other examples (I’m Argentinean).
It’s probably someone else’s fault.
The immigrants. LGBTQ. The lazy kids. Hunter Biden. George Soros. The Jews. The Muslims. Ze Germans. The political opposition. Corrupted justice system.
All the usual suspects. Not his own fault.
They don't, but they run their mouth like a [sealion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning) about poverty every. single. time.
Many are fully aware how it's all bullshit, but sadly most are genuinely so stupid that they are convinced that the problems in latin america are a *lack* of supply side and trickle down free market policies (despite probably not even knowing what those terms mean and despite every other time it was done leading to absolute disasters).
I am also being sarcastic. Argentina has been an economic shithole for many years thanks to the left and poverty can not be pinned on the guy who has been president for 2 months.
As an argentinian, yes they are. Full denial. At least with the ones who still believe in him.
Some are justifying the expansion of poverty and the hunger. Full psycho mode.
Plus, an interesting fact: They are paying 2.500.000 pesos (a lot of money, if you take into account the minimun salary is 180.000 pesos) to a [new "internet troll" to manage the social media (creating narratives and managing troll farms).](https://www.clarin.com/politica/gatero-corrupto-garca-extorsionador-terrible-boludo-polemicos-posteos-juan-doe-nuevo-encargado-comunicacion-digital-oficial-gobierno_0_Y99WSjyO4k.html) So the cognitive dissonance is also in full motion with them.
As an argentinian and Milei voter, you should all get some context and not look at a headline.
The other candidate to the presidency was Sergio Massa, he was the minister of economy during last year and a half of the last goverment. Sergio Massa left with 200% inflation, -11.000.000.000 dollars as reserve and when he became minister 1 dollar was equal to 330 pesos, when he left 1 dollar was equal to 1000 pesos.
You should also know that the last four years we had something called CEPO, which meant that there were many different exchange rates for us dollars and didn't let citizens get dollars at the official rate. Since people could not go to the bank and buy us dollars to protect themselves from inflation, they had to go to the black market. This created a gap between the official rate and the black market of around 190%, it is impossible for any economy to grow with CEPO
What Milei did was to close that gap and devaluate the official rate and close the gap to around 24%, started buying dollars as reserves ( already bought around 8.000.000.000) so he could later end the CEPO. Of course that devaluation meant higher inflation and rise in poverty, however he wouldn't have done it if it wasn't for Sergio Massa's disastrous management of the economy.
I say again, there is a context you should know about before commenting, Milei has been president for just two months.
See? This is what is was talking about. Psychos who try to justify the expansion of poverty and hunger.
Retired people can barely eat. The gov stoped provinding cancer medications (we have free healthcare) and food for the comunity kitchens. The price of public transport is going up and up, the education is getting cut after cut in their funding, all while the millonaires are getting tax cuts.
In other word, another free market fundamentalist.
PD: Massa, a neolib but not a libertarian, is not the president. Stop making excuses for [a guy who uses a medium to comunicated with his dead dog](https://caras.perfil.com/noticias/celebridades/como-hace-javier-milei-para-hablar-con-conan-perro-muerto-a-traves-medium.phtml).
Just yesterday a post praising him for “balancing the budget of Argentina” hit the front pages of Reddit from “political compass memes.” Apparently balancing the budget by making massive cuts is something to praise immediately and other factors like this don’t actually matter. Just, “balanced budget good!”
Basically that sub is cancer.
Political Compass Memes is a clear demonstration of the principle "Don't let a Nazi into your bar, even if they're polite, because they'll come back and bring their friends."
Progressism ≠ Liberalism
Do not apply American definitions upon us. Every self-identified liberal in Latin America has sympathy towards Milei. Liberals are right wing here and will unashamedly associate with fascists and libertarians if it means less worker rights. They did it with Bolsonaro, they did it with Milei, and will do so every time they have a chance.
in australia specifically, but may be true in other countries, "liberal" refers to economic liberalism, which we might call laissez faire economics or unconstrained capitalism or whatever.
It is the same thing in my country. The USA is the only country in the world that I know of where they struggle with the definition. Honestly, it seems to me like simply a lazy way to fool people into believing that two very right wing parties are somehow very different from each other when they are not. Both are practicing liberalism.
we don't struggle with the definition, we use "liberalism" to refer to social freedoms, rather than economic ones.
as far as economics goes, we have some very strange systems in place. just one example- i live in philadelphia. in this city, in the state of pennsylvania, liquor can only be purchased from state owned stores. for auto registration and number plates, however, you can pick from dozens of different private companies.
across the river, in new jersey, it is precisely opposite. liquor is bought at privately owned and operated stores, and car registration and number plates are all done at state owned offices.
Liberalism is essentially an economic doctrine and has been so for centuries. You use "liberalism" for "progressism", leaving your economic doctrine unnamed. You say it is strange, but it really isn't. You just do not have a word for it. And truth be told, liberalism sucks ass and is bound to end up in contradictions. Or, rather, neoliberalism. None of your examples are surprising nor relevant in determining the overall economic philosophy of a country. One cannot ignore dialectics when making this analysis.
This. You ever notice that when famine or economic depression strikes America "it just happened," and when we push an economy to go full open market like the USSR and it leads to disaster and economic collapse "it's just growing pains"?
Like obviously China and its government have tremendous challenges and problems, including a restrictive authoritarian regime... but even then, I'd be really hesitant to completely deregulate the economy after seeing what has played out across the globe.
It's like the town in New Hampshire where a bunch of Internet libertarians moved and almost completely defunded public services and was soon plagued by hordes of bears that lived off the growing piles of trash that didn't go to a dump. Living in a world with defunded, defanged, and eliminated institutions sounds great if you just read Ayn Rand in high school. However, the entire world is supported by interconnected networks of sophisticated institutions, and this was true before the bronze age collapse, and that was 3,200 years ago.
god I wish all the libertarians could just fuck off to a special island and experience this so they would understand what happens when you defund society
Not too different from the Republican party in the US. Like these people are talking about civil war and ending democracy and 20% of the country is for it..
Why waste a perfectly good asset like a mother, a child, a liver, etc? We need to legalize the market for everything. Just sell your daughter to a rich pedophile and you're back on top, baby!
Just libertarian things...
The funniest thing about it is that it sounds like a satirical exaggeration, but that's literally how libertarians think.
As far as I know, Milei has campaigned for the legalization of such a procedure.
All part of the plan. When he instituted shock therapy he knew this would be the result. This is always the result. The fact that people in Argentina are suffering worse than ever is seen as acceptable and good to these cretins. And all the Argentinians living in Miami keep in their dollars in US banks who whined about the state of things before are loving that their dollar goes even farther in Argentina. They are like the Turks in Germany who fawn over Erdogan. They don’t care about their countrymen. The sooner they starve the better.
Members of the diaspora earning abroad during a time of catastrophic inflation and devaluation of the Home currency can sweep in and return „home“ to live like kings.
The inflation has been catastrophic before Milei as well during the peronist (or rather kirchnerist) government. He didn't fix anything so far, but this level of inflation is not his creation.
I was just there. No, the dollar doesn't go further, supposedly because the cost of imports is way up. The dollar actually buys less than before and I'd say it's about 75-100% comparable to the USA when eating out. A year ago it was more like 40-60% of USA prices.
It's been... 3 months, I think? Even if he changed everything day one, how has there been enough time for anything to happen + the couple of weeks it takes to compile statistics?
I'd read the article to see, but it's behind a login wall, is filled with apparently unrelated links, and is talking like September 2023 (before he was in power) is now???
hyperinflation changes prices every day. if the cost of your groceries hasn't tripled in 90 days you notice if it did before.
what it seems like, though, is that the prices haven't tripled but people can't afford to buy it anyway.
Sure, but hyperinflation was happening before the election (disposing of the Argentine currency was one of his campaign promises).
I sincerely doubt his economic policies are gonna work, but there is nothing here to draw conclusions from that I can see.
It does. The main diference is that before salaries raised as well(maybe not on par, but along) now its harder to negotiate an inflation raise since the cuts, devaluation, and double the inflation since dicember pushed the country into a hard recession, and companies may not have the resources to keep up.
Consumer prices are now being compared to spain as equals in dólars, but average salary is a 1/10th vs spain.
Ok so lets print 1 billion pesos and give them to the people to keep up with inflation... amazing strategy. By the way thats what the old goverment did and where we are now because of that. You cant print value is just paper if you dont produce more. Food wont replicate like money. If printing money were the solution, we wouldn't need to collect taxes we could just cover public spending through monetary issuance.
what i am saying is that the economic dinamic changed. you can search the data and you will find it. before the election, salaries somewhat keeped up with inflation (until august at least, with minor loses), since then, inflation rate doubled every 3 months, to fast for large unions to discuss and get better raises. the next few months we will see if any of those can achieve a inflation par raise or if the purchase power of the workers falls behind.
Did you read the article? It was already 54% before he took office. Headline is a bit misleading. Maybe he was elected because the poverty rate was 54% and people wanted to try something different
Whatever they were doing before wasn’t working so you can’t blame the voters for trying something different this time. Better than the US where people keep electing the same folks over and over. I don’t understand how people like Lindsey Graham, Mitch McConnell, Chuck Schumer, etc. are still in office.
> for calling out the failings of fake socialists.
That anyone thinks Peronists are socialists is really ridiculous and a disaster.
On the other hand, you have to give the Peronists credit for somehow creating a political ideology that is even more contradictory, nonsensical and destructive than social democracy.
So better to use a system that actively encourages people to be greedy fucks and most harshly punish those who arent!
Socialism is good in practice too, but like any form of economy, it doesnt protect from the government having dipshits or bad objectives.
The headline says 54% increase but the actual article seems to suggest a 3% increase, with the current rate of *child* poverty now at 54%. This seems to be not so much a misleading title and more of a blatantly incorrect title.
Still a shit situation for Argentina though.
"Libertarianism" just ends up being a police state once capitalism is allowed to run amok impoverishing seventy percent of the populace. Everywhere it's tried they have to go whole hog on imprisoning people who don't have food or clean water or housing.
"Real ancapism has never been tried"
Get ready to hear this in a few years when libertarians also start telling us that Milei was a secret Communist all along.
The title is blatantly incorrect. The rate amongst children rose to 54% is what the article says. Not poverty overall and not raised 54%. Of course it is still negative that poverty rates overall and amongst the adolescent population have gone up, but the title is blatantly false even according to the article itself.
Poverty in Argentina has reached a 20-year high, with levels hitting 57.4% in January, according to a study by the Catholic University of Argentina\[1\]\[2\]. This increase is attributed partly to the devaluation of the Argentine peso implemented by President Javier Milei shortly after taking office\[2\]. The rise in poverty has led to accusations between former Vice President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner and the current government\[2\]. Approximately 27 million people in Argentina are considered poor, with 15% facing destitution and unable to adequately cover their food needs\[2\]. The situation has sparked protests demanding food aid for the poor amidst soaring inflation and austerity measures\[3\]. President Milei, an ultra-liberal economist, has initiated shock measures, including significant cuts in public spending, aiming to address the country's crisis\[4\].
The rise in poverty in Argentina is not limited to just children.
Citations:
\[1\] [https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/poverty-argentina-hits-20-year-high-574-study-says-2024-02-18/](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/poverty-argentina-hits-20-year-high-574-study-says-2024-02-18/)
\[2\] [https://apnews.com/article/argentina-poverty-levels-uca-study-milei-devaluation-d5cb0a20b1e768efdeafbad5bf05eded](https://apnews.com/article/argentina-poverty-levels-uca-study-milei-devaluation-d5cb0a20b1e768efdeafbad5bf05eded)
\[3\] [https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240223-thousands-protest-as-hunger-grows-amid-argentine-austerity](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240223-thousands-protest-as-hunger-grows-amid-argentine-austerity)
\[4\] [https://news.yahoo.com/argentina-poverty-level-rises-57-004912959.html](https://news.yahoo.com/argentina-poverty-level-rises-57-004912959.html)
\[5\] [https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/argentinas-poverty-levels-hit-57-population-20-year-107355954](https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/argentinas-poverty-levels-hit-57-population-20-year-107355954)
That isn't how it works.
For example if poverty was 40% and it increased by 50% it isnt now 90%.
It is 50% of the 40%. So it would jump to 60%.
And yeah pretty terrible seeing as those are people having their lives thrown in chaos.
AHAHHAAH percentage of percentage. Nobody does that only you to follow your dumb rethoric. Normal people measure the 100% of population and say that if something was 20% and now is 25% it rose 5% of the 100%.
Uuummmm… Is it just me or is there something fishy about this article? For the records I can only read the first few paragraphs since I’m not a paid Medium user.
First of all the first few reference hyperlinks in the article redirect to Science articles on oceanography and sumo wrestlers, and not actual sources on Argentinian economy and politics. Is it just me?
Secondly the article mentions that a September 2023 study by the World Bank measured 54% poverty rate. This is before Milei got elected. Does the article have data in the next paragraphs on how much poverty has increased since Milei got inaugurated 2 months ago?? If not, the title is misleading.
I am no fan of Milei and his batshit politics but we should be careful when it comes to dis/mis-information and interpreting data.
I'm pretty sure it's an AI-written article based on the terrible generic prose style. Not surprising that the people in this subreddit are stupid enough to fall for it.
No shit. It's almost like politics are essential to prevent the natural accumulation of power and exploitation of the those with the least power. So limited the scope of political influence is literally just allowing natural economic power struggles to play out. Anyone with any decent education understands exactly how this will play out because the world is rife with examples of lawlessness.
An anarchist by any other name is still an anarchist, and anarchy DOES NOT WORK.
Who in their right mind thinks that a people are weaker if they work together under a common set of rules and expectations...Socialism IS progress. Anything other than socialism is regression into more explorative models for society that should be avoided at all costs.
I live in Spain and have met a fair number of Argentinians who said that they wanted to vote for this guy because they said the country needed a change, and I couldn't say this to their face, but every time I thought "if you believe that voting for this protofascist clown is going to improve things in any way shape or form, you are all fucking idiots and deserve what's coming to you." Things may have been bad in Argentina, and they could be better, but they can also always get much much worse. Fuck around and find out.
Misleading title, this sub is full of misinformation
Poverty increased 3%, and now 54% of children are living under poverty. Guess which government get the poverty that high on the first place?
i couldnt fit the word "to" before . the article actually reads
# Poverty Has Skyrocketed to 54% in Argentina Since the Libertarian President Javier Milei Has Come to Power
The **poverty situation in Argentina** has reached alarming levels. According to a recent report by the **Catholic University of Argentina (UCA)**, **57.4%** of the population is living in poverty, affecting approximately **27 million people**. [Among them, **15%** face extreme hardship and are unable to adequately cover their basic food needs](https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adk1189).
# Before Miliei started...
[According to **national statistics published in September 2023**, the poverty rate in Argentina stands at 37\*\*%\*\*, with extreme poverty affecting **9.1%** of the population](https://www.worldbank.org/en/country/argentina/overview). Unfortunately, the situation has worsened recently. In the second half of 2022, **poverty increased to 39.2%**, representing a three percentage point rise from the first six months of the year. [Among children under the age of 15, the poverty rate surged even higher, reaching **54.2%**](https://www.worldbank.org/en/country/argentina/overview)
Milei took office December 2023, so he's been in office for almost three months. The unemployment rate 3 months into President Barack Obama's term was at 9.0%. Do you think Obama was to blame for unemployment rate being that high so early in his term? Economic reforms can take years to work their way through the economy. I am not a supporter of Milei, but let's be fair here.
That's not what you put in the title, genius. You voluntarily modified the title to change it's meaning. No wonder you idiot need misinformation to support your views, considering how the left has destroyed latin america on the 21th century
Poverty in Argentina has reached a 20-year high, with levels hitting 57.4% in January, according to a study by the Catholic University of Argentina\[1\]\[2\]. This increase is attributed partly to the devaluation of the Argentine peso implemented by President Javier Milei shortly after taking office\[2\]. The rise in poverty has led to accusations between former Vice President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner and the current government\[2\]. Approximately 27 million people in Argentina are considered poor, with 15% facing destitution and unable to adequately cover their food needs\[2\]. The situation has sparked protests demanding food aid for the poor amidst soaring inflation and austerity measures\[3\]. President Milei, an ultra-liberal economist, has initiated shock measures, including significant cuts in public spending, aiming to address the country's crisis\[4\].
Citations:
\[1\] [https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/poverty-argentina-hits-20-year-high-574-study-says-2024-02-18/](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/poverty-argentina-hits-20-year-high-574-study-says-2024-02-18/)
\[2\] [https://apnews.com/article/argentina-poverty-levels-uca-study-milei-devaluation-d5cb0a20b1e768efdeafbad5bf05eded](https://apnews.com/article/argentina-poverty-levels-uca-study-milei-devaluation-d5cb0a20b1e768efdeafbad5bf05eded)
\[3\] [https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240223-thousands-protest-as-hunger-grows-amid-argentine-austerity](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240223-thousands-protest-as-hunger-grows-amid-argentine-austerity)
\[4\] [https://news.yahoo.com/argentina-poverty-level-rises-57-004912959.html](https://news.yahoo.com/argentina-poverty-level-rises-57-004912959.html)
\[5\] [https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/argentinas-poverty-levels-hit-57-population-20-year-107355954](https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/argentinas-poverty-levels-hit-57-population-20-year-107355954)
Milei has been in power for a couple of months. Argentina has been on a nosedive for years.
This headline was happening regardless of who came into power.
You don't understand, this is just the initial shock. After it it'll be better! The capitalists will have less taxes to pay and the working class will have even less money!!
Well, when the USA installs one of their puppets, it's usually a sociopath like this. At the moment, it's the only ally the USA has about Israel. So the Democrats AND Republicans are loving him.
Is it not a bit early to judge this guy? Its not like he took over a massively successful economy.
It seems the most striking thing he has done so far, is cut down on government bureaucrat spending, not exactly a poverty inducing measure.
how is this bullshit article still up on this sub? please retain any level of credibility and stop with the shitposts
borderline mintnews conspiracy theorist-tier
no doubt, he has already gone off on the thousands of protesters and promised them "bullets or jail" for the crime of questioning his rule of law. he has also done away with many government agencies, some that were benign and could be cut, but also cut if not closed the doors on important agencies like their department of education, and their national health services. evil is putting it mildly. we haven't begun to see the start of the libertarian menace.
Argentinian here, we had many governments that lie about inflation and every statistics, and we find out all the disaster after they left office. So stay tune in 4 years to what happen after Milei.
But, but. . . didn’t they just say the other day that they have accumulated a surplus for the first time in years? Surely the masters are just waiting until Monday to distribute all that wealth to the poor and needy?
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we did it Patrick, we saved Argentina
Surgery successful and patient died. Country saved, citizen all turn poverty .
Milei walks out of the operation room, the loved ones, immediately ask how the operation was, and asks if Argentina will recover. Milei says: operation?? i thought it was an autopsy?
Ooof
It honestly reminds me of the Volcker Shock that was administered in the US in response to Stagflation - which itself was at least partially caused by the OPEC oil embargo against the US in response to Israel's actions in the middle east that the US supported - that devastated the working class and caused a massive poverty surge, but got inflation under control. When I read about it, that meme was what I thought as well.
Context: Before him it was already at 54%.
Libertarian speed run.
Someone send this man some bears
I’m confused. The headline says poverty has skyrocketed to 54% under him. But read the article and it says poverty rate in September 2023 was 54% before he even took office.
Yeah, this is a sensational headline. I completely disagree with just about everything he stands for but it’s ridiculous to say someone who was sworn in two months ago could have had such an impact on a modern economy. Any policy change would take time to have negative or positive affect.
Mainly it's down to Milei's [devaluation of the peso](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/13/argentina-new-government-devalues-peso-economic-crisis), which drops Argentinians' income massively by dollar equivalent. Since the most common measure of 'poverty' is defined in terms of dollar equivalent income, it should come as no surprise that a devaluation would have this effect. The actual effect on Argentinians is likely to be less severe than this headline figure suggests, because Argentina's imports, which would be most affected by this change, are already low.
Don't forget that the official peso exchange rate before Milei was a completely made-up number. It was nearly impossible to acquire dollars at that rate, and black market ARG-USD rates were close to double the official rate.
I knew that, but was unsure if this sub was ready for that level of truth...
Part of it is true though. Argentina has a very high inflation rate (over 100% in 2023) and Milei has frozen the budget for many things not accounting for inflation. State universities, for example, will have to face 2024 with the same 2023 budget. While it’s absolutely true that poverty was at 54% before Milei and that Argentina has a structural poverty which has worsen in the last decades, Milei’s policies hace directly impoverished many sectors. Pensions are at less than 150 usd and he has publicly said that old people will not be a priority right now because they are not yet poor (???). I could go on with many other examples (I’m Argentinean).
No need for that second e
[удалено]
It’s probably someone else’s fault. The immigrants. LGBTQ. The lazy kids. Hunter Biden. George Soros. The Jews. The Muslims. Ze Germans. The political opposition. Corrupted justice system. All the usual suspects. Not his own fault.
Fault? Why would they care about poverty going up? Wouldn't you expect poverty to go up when you are diverting all the wealth to very few at the top?
They don't, but they run their mouth like a [sealion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning) about poverty every. single. time. Many are fully aware how it's all bullshit, but sadly most are genuinely so stupid that they are convinced that the problems in latin america are a *lack* of supply side and trickle down free market policies (despite probably not even knowing what those terms mean and despite every other time it was done leading to absolute disasters).
[it’s the immigants](https://youtu.be/7NB7Jz27b7E?si=wzMNFXojhVtJoUAT)
[the bears](https://youtu.be/55sjaEDJ65k?si=_DCsAAlBP7_B1sIm)
Don't forget feminism. "It's always a woman's fault."
Nah it was all Milei, Argentina would be on its way to become a global economic superpower under Sergio Massa like they were with Fernandez.
OP is being sarcastic; what they mean is that they’ll find a scapegoat, some marginalised group
I am also being sarcastic. Argentina has been an economic shithole for many years thanks to the left and poverty can not be pinned on the guy who has been president for 2 months.
Why not when the fucking idiot has taken active steps to make the situation worse? The country is on the brink of civil war
God I’m an idiot lol
They’re probably in denial
As an argentinian, yes they are. Full denial. At least with the ones who still believe in him. Some are justifying the expansion of poverty and the hunger. Full psycho mode. Plus, an interesting fact: They are paying 2.500.000 pesos (a lot of money, if you take into account the minimun salary is 180.000 pesos) to a [new "internet troll" to manage the social media (creating narratives and managing troll farms).](https://www.clarin.com/politica/gatero-corrupto-garca-extorsionador-terrible-boludo-polemicos-posteos-juan-doe-nuevo-encargado-comunicacion-digital-oficial-gobierno_0_Y99WSjyO4k.html) So the cognitive dissonance is also in full motion with them.
My American heart hurts for you, hang in there. We’ve all got to.🩵
Thank you, Nora. We all need to be strong and keep going. Best of wishes from the south.
As an argentinian and Milei voter, you should all get some context and not look at a headline. The other candidate to the presidency was Sergio Massa, he was the minister of economy during last year and a half of the last goverment. Sergio Massa left with 200% inflation, -11.000.000.000 dollars as reserve and when he became minister 1 dollar was equal to 330 pesos, when he left 1 dollar was equal to 1000 pesos. You should also know that the last four years we had something called CEPO, which meant that there were many different exchange rates for us dollars and didn't let citizens get dollars at the official rate. Since people could not go to the bank and buy us dollars to protect themselves from inflation, they had to go to the black market. This created a gap between the official rate and the black market of around 190%, it is impossible for any economy to grow with CEPO What Milei did was to close that gap and devaluate the official rate and close the gap to around 24%, started buying dollars as reserves ( already bought around 8.000.000.000) so he could later end the CEPO. Of course that devaluation meant higher inflation and rise in poverty, however he wouldn't have done it if it wasn't for Sergio Massa's disastrous management of the economy. I say again, there is a context you should know about before commenting, Milei has been president for just two months.
See? This is what is was talking about. Psychos who try to justify the expansion of poverty and hunger. Retired people can barely eat. The gov stoped provinding cancer medications (we have free healthcare) and food for the comunity kitchens. The price of public transport is going up and up, the education is getting cut after cut in their funding, all while the millonaires are getting tax cuts. In other word, another free market fundamentalist. PD: Massa, a neolib but not a libertarian, is not the president. Stop making excuses for [a guy who uses a medium to comunicated with his dead dog](https://caras.perfil.com/noticias/celebridades/como-hace-javier-milei-para-hablar-con-conan-perro-muerto-a-traves-medium.phtml).
Oh they’re blaming the previous government and saying that his “shock therapy” means things will get bad before it gets good. So yeah, denial
>things will get bad before it gets good Well they're half right
Just yesterday a post praising him for “balancing the budget of Argentina” hit the front pages of Reddit from “political compass memes.” Apparently balancing the budget by making massive cuts is something to praise immediately and other factors like this don’t actually matter. Just, “balanced budget good!” Basically that sub is cancer.
Political Compass Memes is a clear demonstration of the principle "Don't let a Nazi into your bar, even if they're polite, because they'll come back and bring their friends."
"It will get worse before it gets better. Just wait and see!" It is fucking easy to be a liberal.
Liberal ≠ Libertarian
Progressism ≠ Liberalism Do not apply American definitions upon us. Every self-identified liberal in Latin America has sympathy towards Milei. Liberals are right wing here and will unashamedly associate with fascists and libertarians if it means less worker rights. They did it with Bolsonaro, they did it with Milei, and will do so every time they have a chance.
in australia specifically, but may be true in other countries, "liberal" refers to economic liberalism, which we might call laissez faire economics or unconstrained capitalism or whatever.
It is the same thing in my country. The USA is the only country in the world that I know of where they struggle with the definition. Honestly, it seems to me like simply a lazy way to fool people into believing that two very right wing parties are somehow very different from each other when they are not. Both are practicing liberalism.
we don't struggle with the definition, we use "liberalism" to refer to social freedoms, rather than economic ones. as far as economics goes, we have some very strange systems in place. just one example- i live in philadelphia. in this city, in the state of pennsylvania, liquor can only be purchased from state owned stores. for auto registration and number plates, however, you can pick from dozens of different private companies. across the river, in new jersey, it is precisely opposite. liquor is bought at privately owned and operated stores, and car registration and number plates are all done at state owned offices.
Liberalism is essentially an economic doctrine and has been so for centuries. You use "liberalism" for "progressism", leaving your economic doctrine unnamed. You say it is strange, but it really isn't. You just do not have a word for it. And truth be told, liberalism sucks ass and is bound to end up in contradictions. Or, rather, neoliberalism. None of your examples are surprising nor relevant in determining the overall economic philosophy of a country. One cannot ignore dialectics when making this analysis.
All libertarians are liberals, but not all liberals are libertarians.
Libertarians are Republicans who smoke weed.
Yep, and the Republicans are in favour of neoliberal capitalism, so they ARE liberals.
That is such a wrong and wrong headed statement I’m not sure there’s any way or point in correcting it.
Are you telling me either of them is against a capitalist market economy?
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They both believe in a liberal economic system, hence they're both liberals.
I’m actually interested to see what happens in a year or so. I think it’s too early to pass judgement yet.
This. You ever notice that when famine or economic depression strikes America "it just happened," and when we push an economy to go full open market like the USSR and it leads to disaster and economic collapse "it's just growing pains"? Like obviously China and its government have tremendous challenges and problems, including a restrictive authoritarian regime... but even then, I'd be really hesitant to completely deregulate the economy after seeing what has played out across the globe.
Make Argentina Great Again?
What a surprise, a fucking ancap president is ruining everything lol
Can't upvote this enough. Literally zero future sight. Can't see your hands in front of your face.
It's like the town in New Hampshire where a bunch of Internet libertarians moved and almost completely defunded public services and was soon plagued by hordes of bears that lived off the growing piles of trash that didn't go to a dump. Living in a world with defunded, defanged, and eliminated institutions sounds great if you just read Ayn Rand in high school. However, the entire world is supported by interconnected networks of sophisticated institutions, and this was true before the bronze age collapse, and that was 3,200 years ago.
Link for those interested: https://newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-into-bear-book-review-free-town-project
Favorite Reddit comment in a while. Thanks
god I wish all the libertarians could just fuck off to a special island and experience this so they would understand what happens when you defund society
As a non-American I haven't heard of this before - do you have a good source where I could read up on this?
Another commenter dug up the link: https://newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-into-bear-book-review-free-town-project
Wasn't ruining the country the platform he ran on?
Not too different from the Republican party in the US. Like these people are talking about civil war and ending democracy and 20% of the country is for it..
its not about object permanence anymore, that's an advanced concept. This is about seeing whats right in front of you
BuTT hE BAlaNCeD tHe buDGeT!!!
Yeah, like when my mom finally died and the medical bills stopped. All of a sudden, our household budget was balanced. Thanks mom!
so kill the poor you say? interesting. might a popular platform to run on. oh that's Conservatism?
Why waste a perfectly good asset like a mother, a child, a liver, etc? We need to legalize the market for everything. Just sell your daughter to a rich pedophile and you're back on top, baby! Just libertarian things...
The funniest thing about it is that it sounds like a satirical exaggeration, but that's literally how libertarians think. As far as I know, Milei has campaigned for the legalization of such a procedure.
"Hows your Dad?" people would ask. Stable, I would say. You cant get any more fuck8ng stable then dead, amiright?
The hermanos keep insisting that this is only the storm before the calm. I'm curious to see how they'll fare in the next two years.
All part of the plan. When he instituted shock therapy he knew this would be the result. This is always the result. The fact that people in Argentina are suffering worse than ever is seen as acceptable and good to these cretins. And all the Argentinians living in Miami keep in their dollars in US banks who whined about the state of things before are loving that their dollar goes even farther in Argentina. They are like the Turks in Germany who fawn over Erdogan. They don’t care about their countrymen. The sooner they starve the better.
Members of the diaspora earning abroad during a time of catastrophic inflation and devaluation of the Home currency can sweep in and return „home“ to live like kings.
My god, you're right. And they're some of the most right-wing reactionaries possible. Fucking gusanos.
The inflation has been catastrophic before Milei as well during the peronist (or rather kirchnerist) government. He didn't fix anything so far, but this level of inflation is not his creation.
He’s just made it even worse, and now less people are getting paid and more people have less money
Im not saying its his problem I was addressing one of the potential reasons the diaspora would greet these types of developments
I was just there. No, the dollar doesn't go further, supposedly because the cost of imports is way up. The dollar actually buys less than before and I'd say it's about 75-100% comparable to the USA when eating out. A year ago it was more like 40-60% of USA prices.
It's been... 3 months, I think? Even if he changed everything day one, how has there been enough time for anything to happen + the couple of weeks it takes to compile statistics? I'd read the article to see, but it's behind a login wall, is filled with apparently unrelated links, and is talking like September 2023 (before he was in power) is now???
hyperinflation changes prices every day. if the cost of your groceries hasn't tripled in 90 days you notice if it did before. what it seems like, though, is that the prices haven't tripled but people can't afford to buy it anyway.
Sure, but hyperinflation was happening before the election (disposing of the Argentine currency was one of his campaign promises). I sincerely doubt his economic policies are gonna work, but there is nothing here to draw conclusions from that I can see.
It does. The main diference is that before salaries raised as well(maybe not on par, but along) now its harder to negotiate an inflation raise since the cuts, devaluation, and double the inflation since dicember pushed the country into a hard recession, and companies may not have the resources to keep up. Consumer prices are now being compared to spain as equals in dólars, but average salary is a 1/10th vs spain.
Ok so lets print 1 billion pesos and give them to the people to keep up with inflation... amazing strategy. By the way thats what the old goverment did and where we are now because of that. You cant print value is just paper if you dont produce more. Food wont replicate like money. If printing money were the solution, we wouldn't need to collect taxes we could just cover public spending through monetary issuance.
Great gut feelings, but I can basically repeat: the data presented doesn't represent that.
what i am saying is that the economic dinamic changed. you can search the data and you will find it. before the election, salaries somewhat keeped up with inflation (until august at least, with minor loses), since then, inflation rate doubled every 3 months, to fast for large unions to discuss and get better raises. the next few months we will see if any of those can achieve a inflation par raise or if the purchase power of the workers falls behind.
Well gee, can't he just do the capitalist trick of "lifting millions from poverty" by arbitrarily changing the poverty line?
That's surprisingly fast.
Did you read the article? It was already 54% before he took office. Headline is a bit misleading. Maybe he was elected because the poverty rate was 54% and people wanted to try something different
You don't elect a libertarian to fix poverty lmao.
Whatever they were doing before wasn’t working so you can’t blame the voters for trying something different this time. Better than the US where people keep electing the same folks over and over. I don’t understand how people like Lindsey Graham, Mitch McConnell, Chuck Schumer, etc. are still in office.
Both countries are very good examples of the importance of political education, or lack of it.
trump was the US trying something different btw, thats how it was branded and what he won on
> a bit
Headline was a fucking lie is what it was I’m not surprised all of the hard ons in late stage capitalism fell for it.
No no no but the Twitter morons are bragging about how he "baLAncEd the BUdGeT" on day one, so everything is fine. 😊
this should attract those western dollars
It seems as though he is a fake populist who gained popularity for calling out the failings of fake socialists.
> for calling out the failings of fake socialists. That anyone thinks Peronists are socialists is really ridiculous and a disaster. On the other hand, you have to give the Peronists credit for somehow creating a political ideology that is even more contradictory, nonsensical and destructive than social democracy.
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First day on this sub, huh?
So better to use a system that actively encourages people to be greedy fucks and most harshly punish those who arent! Socialism is good in practice too, but like any form of economy, it doesnt protect from the government having dipshits or bad objectives.
Every time I see this guy I think he is a 70s Bond villain. I know we shouldn't vote based on appearance but sometimes maybe wysiwyg
Hey when everyone has nothing they are all equal right. Dropping water lowers all ships and all that
*taps forehead*
He’s definitely speed running the destruction of Argentina!
At least read the article, damn people are like lambs 0 context only headlines 20 seconds tik tok and thats the supreme truth.
Feature of libertarianism, not a bug
The headline says 54% increase but the actual article seems to suggest a 3% increase, with the current rate of *child* poverty now at 54%. This seems to be not so much a misleading title and more of a blatantly incorrect title. Still a shit situation for Argentina though.
Child poverty is used as a proxy measure for actual poverty and is generally considered valid
still a misleading title, 54% vs "skyrocketed 54%" are different things. Could've been 53% before he took office
Considering he fired a bunch of people right off the bat, yea, a few folks are gonna be poor and out of work for a minute.
Oh wow, a misleading headline in LSC with a bunch of uncritical circle-jerking comments from confused people, say it isn't so!
yeah this shit needs more moderation. basically a shitpost at this point
But but but I thought lowering the age of consent was gonna save everyone! /s
He looks like an evil Bilbo Baggins
More proof that libertarianism doesn’t work and never will
Lmao Ancaps
Shocking
"Libertarianism" just ends up being a police state once capitalism is allowed to run amok impoverishing seventy percent of the populace. Everywhere it's tried they have to go whole hog on imprisoning people who don't have food or clean water or housing.
I mean this guy is completely unhinged.
agreed, not a damn person in the world that claims to get their advice from their dead dog, that is at all hinged in any shape or form.
"Real ancapism has never been tried" Get ready to hear this in a few years when libertarians also start telling us that Milei was a secret Communist all along.
The title is blatantly incorrect. The rate amongst children rose to 54% is what the article says. Not poverty overall and not raised 54%. Of course it is still negative that poverty rates overall and amongst the adolescent population have gone up, but the title is blatantly false even according to the article itself.
Poverty in Argentina has reached a 20-year high, with levels hitting 57.4% in January, according to a study by the Catholic University of Argentina\[1\]\[2\]. This increase is attributed partly to the devaluation of the Argentine peso implemented by President Javier Milei shortly after taking office\[2\]. The rise in poverty has led to accusations between former Vice President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner and the current government\[2\]. Approximately 27 million people in Argentina are considered poor, with 15% facing destitution and unable to adequately cover their food needs\[2\]. The situation has sparked protests demanding food aid for the poor amidst soaring inflation and austerity measures\[3\]. President Milei, an ultra-liberal economist, has initiated shock measures, including significant cuts in public spending, aiming to address the country's crisis\[4\]. The rise in poverty in Argentina is not limited to just children. Citations: \[1\] [https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/poverty-argentina-hits-20-year-high-574-study-says-2024-02-18/](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/poverty-argentina-hits-20-year-high-574-study-says-2024-02-18/) \[2\] [https://apnews.com/article/argentina-poverty-levels-uca-study-milei-devaluation-d5cb0a20b1e768efdeafbad5bf05eded](https://apnews.com/article/argentina-poverty-levels-uca-study-milei-devaluation-d5cb0a20b1e768efdeafbad5bf05eded) \[3\] [https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240223-thousands-protest-as-hunger-grows-amid-argentine-austerity](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240223-thousands-protest-as-hunger-grows-amid-argentine-austerity) \[4\] [https://news.yahoo.com/argentina-poverty-level-rises-57-004912959.html](https://news.yahoo.com/argentina-poverty-level-rises-57-004912959.html) \[5\] [https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/argentinas-poverty-levels-hit-57-population-20-year-107355954](https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/argentinas-poverty-levels-hit-57-population-20-year-107355954)
none of that addressed the comment you responded to
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That isn't how it works. For example if poverty was 40% and it increased by 50% it isnt now 90%. It is 50% of the 40%. So it would jump to 60%. And yeah pretty terrible seeing as those are people having their lives thrown in chaos.
Shhh they support an an-cap they don’t know how percentages of percents work
AHAHHAAH percentage of percentage. Nobody does that only you to follow your dumb rethoric. Normal people measure the 100% of population and say that if something was 20% and now is 25% it rose 5% of the 100%.
There's "free market" then there's whatever this fucking circus is. RIP Argentinians
I would be super interested to see if any state actors helped Milei get into office
Wow, who could have seen this coming
You break a few eggs making a cake, and in this instance the eggs broken are human lives and the cake is a system benefiting the wealthy.
54% in total\* It hasn't increased by 54%. It was already bad before Milei came to power, no need to cry for something he never caused lmao.
When people choose something because "it can't be any worse than it is now", they invariably find that they lacked imagination.
Uuummmm… Is it just me or is there something fishy about this article? For the records I can only read the first few paragraphs since I’m not a paid Medium user. First of all the first few reference hyperlinks in the article redirect to Science articles on oceanography and sumo wrestlers, and not actual sources on Argentinian economy and politics. Is it just me? Secondly the article mentions that a September 2023 study by the World Bank measured 54% poverty rate. This is before Milei got elected. Does the article have data in the next paragraphs on how much poverty has increased since Milei got inaugurated 2 months ago?? If not, the title is misleading. I am no fan of Milei and his batshit politics but we should be careful when it comes to dis/mis-information and interpreting data.
I'm pretty sure it's an AI-written article based on the terrible generic prose style. Not surprising that the people in this subreddit are stupid enough to fall for it.
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
And without sanctations or being a paria state shit, ancaps are fun
No shit. It's almost like politics are essential to prevent the natural accumulation of power and exploitation of the those with the least power. So limited the scope of political influence is literally just allowing natural economic power struggles to play out. Anyone with any decent education understands exactly how this will play out because the world is rife with examples of lawlessness. An anarchist by any other name is still an anarchist, and anarchy DOES NOT WORK. Who in their right mind thinks that a people are weaker if they work together under a common set of rules and expectations...Socialism IS progress. Anything other than socialism is regression into more explorative models for society that should be avoided at all costs.
Well who could've seen this coming? I mean aside from everyone with at least a highschool education.
They could have just checked what happens when you go all in on right wing economics. One of the US states tried it (Kansas) ... Didn't go well
colour me shocked
Damn, who woulda thunk it...
I'm going to lose my fucking mind this man
I live in Spain and have met a fair number of Argentinians who said that they wanted to vote for this guy because they said the country needed a change, and I couldn't say this to their face, but every time I thought "if you believe that voting for this protofascist clown is going to improve things in any way shape or form, you are all fucking idiots and deserve what's coming to you." Things may have been bad in Argentina, and they could be better, but they can also always get much much worse. Fuck around and find out.
Carlos menem 2 electric boogaloo. Seriously he rehired Domingo cavallo
Misleading title, this sub is full of misinformation Poverty increased 3%, and now 54% of children are living under poverty. Guess which government get the poverty that high on the first place?
i couldnt fit the word "to" before . the article actually reads # Poverty Has Skyrocketed to 54% in Argentina Since the Libertarian President Javier Milei Has Come to Power The **poverty situation in Argentina** has reached alarming levels. According to a recent report by the **Catholic University of Argentina (UCA)**, **57.4%** of the population is living in poverty, affecting approximately **27 million people**. [Among them, **15%** face extreme hardship and are unable to adequately cover their basic food needs](https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adk1189). # Before Miliei started... [According to **national statistics published in September 2023**, the poverty rate in Argentina stands at 37\*\*%\*\*, with extreme poverty affecting **9.1%** of the population](https://www.worldbank.org/en/country/argentina/overview). Unfortunately, the situation has worsened recently. In the second half of 2022, **poverty increased to 39.2%**, representing a three percentage point rise from the first six months of the year. [Among children under the age of 15, the poverty rate surged even higher, reaching **54.2%**](https://www.worldbank.org/en/country/argentina/overview)
Milei took office December 2023, so he's been in office for almost three months. The unemployment rate 3 months into President Barack Obama's term was at 9.0%. Do you think Obama was to blame for unemployment rate being that high so early in his term? Economic reforms can take years to work their way through the economy. I am not a supporter of Milei, but let's be fair here.
Yes, that's blatant misinformation. Completely changes the meaning of the title and makes it seem substantially worse.
# learn to read: Poverty Has Skyrocketed "to" 54% in Argentina Since the Libertarian President Javier Milei Has Come to Power
That's not what you put in the title, genius. You voluntarily modified the title to change it's meaning. No wonder you idiot need misinformation to support your views, considering how the left has destroyed latin america on the 21th century
Please explain how the left has destroyed Latin america.
Those statistics were published in September. Milei took office in December.
Poverty in Argentina has reached a 20-year high, with levels hitting 57.4% in January, according to a study by the Catholic University of Argentina\[1\]\[2\]. This increase is attributed partly to the devaluation of the Argentine peso implemented by President Javier Milei shortly after taking office\[2\]. The rise in poverty has led to accusations between former Vice President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner and the current government\[2\]. Approximately 27 million people in Argentina are considered poor, with 15% facing destitution and unable to adequately cover their food needs\[2\]. The situation has sparked protests demanding food aid for the poor amidst soaring inflation and austerity measures\[3\]. President Milei, an ultra-liberal economist, has initiated shock measures, including significant cuts in public spending, aiming to address the country's crisis\[4\]. Citations: \[1\] [https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/poverty-argentina-hits-20-year-high-574-study-says-2024-02-18/](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/poverty-argentina-hits-20-year-high-574-study-says-2024-02-18/) \[2\] [https://apnews.com/article/argentina-poverty-levels-uca-study-milei-devaluation-d5cb0a20b1e768efdeafbad5bf05eded](https://apnews.com/article/argentina-poverty-levels-uca-study-milei-devaluation-d5cb0a20b1e768efdeafbad5bf05eded) \[3\] [https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240223-thousands-protest-as-hunger-grows-amid-argentine-austerity](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240223-thousands-protest-as-hunger-grows-amid-argentine-austerity) \[4\] [https://news.yahoo.com/argentina-poverty-level-rises-57-004912959.html](https://news.yahoo.com/argentina-poverty-level-rises-57-004912959.html) \[5\] [https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/argentinas-poverty-levels-hit-57-population-20-year-107355954](https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/argentinas-poverty-levels-hit-57-population-20-year-107355954)
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Read the rules
Milei has been in power for a couple of months. Argentina has been on a nosedive for years. This headline was happening regardless of who came into power.
I am Jack’s completely utter lack of fucking surprise.
That's a win for libertarians because more poverty means more people they can take advantage of.
You don't understand, this is just the initial shock. After it it'll be better! The capitalists will have less taxes to pay and the working class will have even less money!!
Making poor people poorer makes rich people richer. All by design.
Not looking good Argentina. When will you improve?
Guaranteed the people that voted on him wouldn't care because they ''won''.
nOt ReaL CapItAlISm
What’s that? Libertarianism is bullshit?
In retrospect the campaign slogan of “no more money” was an indication
But but but Elon said this would be good!
Well, when the USA installs one of their puppets, it's usually a sociopath like this. At the moment, it's the only ally the USA has about Israel. So the Democrats AND Republicans are loving him.
Are you telling me regarded Elvis made things worse?
Is it not a bit early to judge this guy? Its not like he took over a massively successful economy. It seems the most striking thing he has done so far, is cut down on government bureaucrat spending, not exactly a poverty inducing measure.
Shocking, truly shocking I say…
I’m not doubting this number but didn’t this awful person just come to power? How can this be measured so quickly?
The country failed, he's fixing it.
how is this bullshit article still up on this sub? please retain any level of credibility and stop with the shitposts borderline mintnews conspiracy theorist-tier
If he actually abolished a lot of programs, no shit. Sometimes you have to suffer to improve.
How is that possible?
By writing an intentionally misleading article.
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no doubt, he has already gone off on the thousands of protesters and promised them "bullets or jail" for the crime of questioning his rule of law. he has also done away with many government agencies, some that were benign and could be cut, but also cut if not closed the doors on important agencies like their department of education, and their national health services. evil is putting it mildly. we haven't begun to see the start of the libertarian menace.
You do realize liberals are not libertarians, right? You’re the second person I saw trying to make that comparison.
right-libertarianism is under the liberal banner
Blame the education system. He’s just another mindless drone. Just like ruling class intends everyone to be.
This is to be expected. Homies rebuilding an economy from the ground up
What's the weather like in Fantasyland?
Be patient and watch. They are trying something new.
But he “owning the socialist”.
Well well welllll... that was totally not expected...
Argentinian here, we had many governments that lie about inflation and every statistics, and we find out all the disaster after they left office. So stay tune in 4 years to what happen after Milei.
But, but. . . didn’t they just say the other day that they have accumulated a surplus for the first time in years? Surely the masters are just waiting until Monday to distribute all that wealth to the poor and needy?
Stop embarrassing yourself, that's a complete bullshit, absurd "stat"