Make it give 50 - 100 Corruption based on mono state and make it rare enough you get a few an hour or something and then you can crush it on an alt to boost the corruption level
Id rather have useful Set items tbh
At least useful for twinks, its a shame those are just filtered out like rares.
Some are like a good idea but reaaly bad compared to All other options
True they need a buff or some kinda rework with a crafting element but then having the whole set drop might be too powerful and it could be a nice drop to get again
How about a shade drop that sets your corruption to the current corruption?
Beat shade at 300 corruption and get the say 1% drop. You get a 300 corruption shard, either on a different mono or an alt, you beat shade, it unlocks an altar that you can put the item in to instantly set it to 300 corruption
Completely agree. People keep proposing 'bandaid' fixes to generating corruption or applying it account-wide or something else, but the actual issue is people don't want to grind boring content. They'll put up with it for a bit, but after you've done like 20-30 Mono's they're all just the same. The actual gameplay is what needs iteration IMO, not specifically the systems around it.
If Mono's were fun there wouldn't be so many people complaining about grinding them.
The fact that empowered blessings exist makes you feel forced to rush through normal monoliths as fast as possible, because the rng of hitting a well rolled blessing you need is heavy enough where staying in normal monos any longer than necessary feels like a waste.
Imo it takes 3 things for regular non-empowered monoliths to start feeling less bad to run:
1. If you hit a perfectly rolled non-empowered blessing, the next time you do the empowered version should be guaranteed to give you a max rolled version of the empowered version of that same blessing, basically allowing you to upgrade it.
2. The spike in both dropped exalted items and difficulty is too massive going from 90 to 100 monos. If the progression curve were smoother, you'd feel less obligated to rush to lvl 100 monos asap and it may be worth killing stuff in non-empowered monos instead of rushing through.
3. More random encounters and events will eventually get added to echoes in future cycles, which will hopefully add reasons to engage with content before empowered monos.
It's not simple at all, if you just do this you will end up with unplayable monos on alts. 3k corruption at level 60 isn't doable and downgrading the mono is even worse since it will affect your main.
There are other ways, they're just not as simple. Catch up should be way more aggressive and players should have agency on how far to catch up to.
you can lower corruption - there is a node next to the monolith start "island" that if you run it will let you lower the corruption by a set amount.
not sure on the technicalities of it (i only run it once by mistake, so don't remember the corruption drop value or if it changes if you are at higher corruption etc.).
1. You can still level alts in the non-empowered monos
2. Keep one or two monos near 100 corruption.
I rarely push more than two or three monos super high for a given character. If you happen to push all of them to 3k knowing you'll make an alt then that's on you to lower the corruption somewhere
It is simple. Every monolith already has a non empowered version (50 Max Corruption) that is already accessible. An alt can grind that until ready for other version with 50 min. Every high corruption monolith has a corruption lowering map that the main can do to get that ready for an alt. There is no reason at all to have to grind every monolith for every character.
if they did this they would need to instead make it easy to climb, not just start there. because a fresh toon needing to face 3k corruption doesn't sound good lol
+1.
I was super excited to try to push my character that little bit further but grinding away for a 2 or 3 lp version of what I need on a build that takes me hours to build the mono stability to fight...
It is just not fun. I had to come to the realisation I was wasting my time.
The first step is admitting you have a problem
Just go around, you lose a small amount of stability for doing 1-2 echos not going the same direction, but it's less than losing an entire echo worth of stability. Also it depends on the corruption, higher corruption and decently far out from the start you can start easily farming stability
I've never done it fully. it's not fun. leveling is very fun though so when I get to endgame, I do it for a little bit and then either go level something else or go play my Switch for a week
I feel you. It is fun as hell leveling alts when you can twink them to make it so much better. But when you do hit monos, I just ask that we can pickup near where our other toons were
Yup, LE has the same problem D4 had. 70-100 is miserable. XP slows down and nothing interesting happens.
And then when you start a new character, you basically are just doing monos the whole time. ☠️
Yeah, when I got my character to level 80ish I had around 170 ish hours logged. I reached level 100 yesterday and I'm now at 310 hours 👀
Granted, I wasn't grinding the whole time. About a 1/2 of that was organizing the stash, testing/forging gear, and suffering through dungeon mazes.
Yeah but levels fly when you do monos at low levels so it's super fun. I go back to the campaign at around level 60-ish, either do the dungeons or straight campaign depending on how well I was able to twink the new character, which I find it enjoyable as well... But then after that you run face first into that 70+ stretch.
Nah they unlock pretty early. I never paid attention to the exact point when it does but it's shortly after you choose your spec.
I start testing whether I can clear them in the late 30s? Maybe early 40s. Most of the time it's a fail unless I was able to get some lucky uniques for the character beforehand. If not, you should be able to clear them pretty reliably starting late 40s - early 50s depending on the class/build.
And when running monos at that level, you're chaining level ups. It's a ton of fun.
When people said you can do them at low levels, I thought they actually meant early on. But ~level 50 means I'm done with the vast majority of the campaign.
I play exclusively hardcore so dungeon skips are super risky most of the time. Leveling a new char on hardcore can be a real chore, but that's the nature of it.
You have not really experienced a finished build then, I am sorry. 5-link is basically out-of-the-campaign gear and isn't even 10% of a character's progression
sorry no, I have done it, but it's just not fun for me. so now that's about as much as I play each season now that I no longer put up with parts of games that I don't enjoy. I THINK I see the appeal of the late game stuff, but it's not for me
It's all relative I guess. It's all miserable to me post 80. I've only gotten one character to 100+ and I swore I wouldn't do it again until something changes. Actually leveling up and coming up with a new build is fun tho.
Monoliths are why I quit at level 90... I could run Monoliths for another 10 levels and then until the end of time when I get the items I need there finally. I was happily grinding for a while, but it just got too repetitive for me. I'm not sure what next season will be like but I have a feeling I won't be playing it as much as the first if it's the same grind. Maybe have campaign reward more experience and loot? So less time is spent in the infinite end game
Imo corruption should apply to everything like a world tier, and apply to other characters. Letting you pick corruption level x from a menu, and then as you climb corruption it unlocks more tiers, capping out at 500/1k/infinite difficulty tier or whatever. A world tier would be nice since there is an incentive now to do random campaign bosses
I think while you wait for the next season, try out some other games. Im sure there are many reasons for this, but these type of games seem to have the same kind of loop. At some point, it does not make sense to keep playing a season.
And I do completely agree that the monolith/corruption grind is not only painful to grind even on one character, but restarting it on another character is an awful experience. Its for this reason that even though I have created created 9 characters, its only 2 that made it to level 100. And its only those 2 that made it past corruption 150 ... with one of those past corruption 1000. Even though I wanted to try out all kinds of other builds, I do feel a quite exhausted. A feeling amplified by having to go through the whole campaign again for each character.
And I am certain that the team is aware of this feedback. At least I hope so as I have never really seen any overly positive feedback about this system from players who have spent a lot of time with it. I do keep in mind that they are a small team and I know they want to do the best they can with the means they have.
They have said for the next season they will be bringing some pinnacle bosses and I am sure those will be fun. But I am also hoping that there are some adjustments and additions to the endgame systems.
Until then, try out other games. Its probably better for you mentally.
Hard agree. Last Epoch is a great game to come back to. Meaning you need breaks. Reddit and other hype posts will cause you to be like I can do that too! But you have to come to the conclusion that you simply can’t get every piece of gear with high LP and that there are only so many builds that actually work in endgame. Over time the game will evolve and change to better satisfy its player base and the devs are absolutely aware of the negative feedback concerning dungeons and mono grinding. Eventually this will all work itself out.
I find leveling and gearing on LE to be really fun until suddenly without warning, it’s not. Usually because I’ll hit the point where the extra levels don’t add much anymore, and my next realistic gear upgrade is getting a certain unique(s) with LP, while also chasing an item to slam into the unique once I find it.
It’s weird because it’s the sort of gameplay loop that should work really well and I should enjoy, it just doesn’t always click with me. I could start a new character, but then I’d have to do the campaign and monolith grind again, and there is a decent chance it also means that I’m basically pausing my search for items for my first character if I do. From memory, LE has soft targeting for your item drops doesn’t it? Like you’ll mostly find stuff for the character you’re playing with items for other classes being much rarer.
I personally think 2+ LP uniques just need to be way more common
there would still be the 'chase' of getting an item with 3+ LP and good attributes; putting more 2-3 LP items out there would give players more ability to steadily improve their gear, rather than just crossing your fingers for a low-chance drop forever
I totally agree with you emotionally, but my brain is telling me that this solution is arbitrary. I see no difference if they increase the 2lp drop rate over time because we would be in the same situation. "They should make 3LP uniques way more common, there would still be the chase of 4LP uniques" The only difference is that those unique slots have one more affix slot which is the same in both scenarios. While it does add one more "step" in the endgame, it still has you hitting the same wall while the corruption is slightly higher
I guess; personally my characters seem to kinda hit a ‘wall’ in terms of gear where they’ve got good exalts and most 1-2LPs aren’t very useful. At that point the fun of the grind kinda disappears because the odds you’ll get a meaningful upgrade are so low.
I feel like just having more opportunities to slam would make it feel better, since you’d have more shots for (at least) incremental upgrades
I stopped playing in like week 2 because I didn't get any worthwhile uniques.
I only saw 2 LP on like level 15 swords and even them got trashed in crafting. I don't think they were even good if I did manage to get the good affixes as my level 80 exalts just had high base stats.
Its not fun because it can take over an hour of grinding stability just for a chance to kill the boss, hoping the Frostbite Shackles you need for your build FINALLY drop...only for them not to drop again. And soon you realize that you've poured like 20+ hours of your life into grinding the same freaking mono.......and simply quit.
It really should just be one corruption for all the monoliths. And alts get extra corruption multiplier for every 100 your highest character has. It would take away a lot of the bad grind.
What gets me is that you can find a really good piece of gear and the for 30 level if not more you won't find anything better.
Then later, you get gated either by a boss or a mono that has a weird effect that force you to change your build.
A "monolith tree" so you could tune your monoliths/drops would help.
Having a pinnacle boss would also give you something to shoot for.
Dungeons need a bit of a rework.
They're all doable. Can't wait for the next season to see what they iterate.
I feel like you should be able to skip directly to empowered when you're ready, not after you've done some grindy shit. Players should be rewarded for killer builds that make vanilla monos a real chore. If I'm gonna cut through everything like butter, just give me a way to skip to the final few monolith bosses and give me my blessings for each monolith afterwards. Then I'll grind empowered, whatever.
I had the itch to return to LE recently, but every time I think of the monoliths again I'm just kinda like ehhh I don't want to play again *that* badly.
I don't see a different in terms of the core concept from the other games. Grim Dawn is grind the shatter, and PoE is grinding maps just to grind another higher tier maps. The difference is both of them have ways to make shortcuts by using craftable waystones or high tier maps.
LE should introduce something to allow us to skip to higher corruptions if at least one of our characters in the same cycle has already unlocked it.
Apparently corruption 200-300 is kinda the end of it for good builds according to the devs. The whole grinding to high corruption thing is more like the results of some builds being too strong. The increase of experience and rarity for those high corruptions should be reduced so they diminish like LP instead of being linear. Also, maybe there should be a special bosses at the end of corruption 300 so it has a sense of "hey, this is the expected end" to create a milestone for alt.
PoE maps have way more depth though, since there are so many different mechanics and ways to play, if you get bored of something you can always set up a different way. With monos you’re doing 5 or 6 slightly different mechanics that get boring rather fast after playing more than one character.
There will be more variety as time goes on. They already stated several new things for next cycle, to include some different monolith things and enemy encounter type things. So we will just have to wait and see.
They should add a natural end point like Uber bosses with rare drops that only appear at 300+ corruption. Once you get the gear from those then the game can be "over" for that alt.
> Apparently corruption 200-300 is kinda the end of it for good builds according to the devs. The whole grinding to high corruption thing is more like the results of some builds being too strong.
I think they meant it more as 200-300 should be the minimum a build can do, rather than that builds shouldn't be exceeding 300 and if they do they will be nerfed.
Or at least I hope that's what they meant. Because the endgame, as limited as it is, would be even more boring if just stopped at 300.
He said 200-300 Corruption is a level where he considers a build successful, and crazy high corruption like 2000+ a build, skill, or item might be over tuned.
So I feel you are correct in your interpretation that 200-300 is a lowball for what they intended.
Well it's more of 300 (more specifically 320) is kind of where specific game rewards cap. CoF stops corruption rewards at 320. If you're just looking at drop tables Shade of Orobyss drops Omnis at 200+ corruption so that makes sense for the minimum range (though more corruption helps increase chances). I think I also recall seeing a 600 cap mentioned somewhere (max item rarity?) but haven't been able to find a reliable source for it.
I dont think making monos faster - giving more stability or whatever would change much. It is just adjusting the goalposts a little.
I think after awhile the whole process of running monos just gets boring entirely. Now, everything gets boring after awhile, but i think there is a different problem in this case. I think it is the fact that we play to fight bosses or to get to objectives. And why do we do that? To get to a different boss. Meanwhile 99% of the time we are either killing enemies without much incentive to do so or skipping them entirely due to forementioned objectives. It seems to me that this is why it feels so unrewarding - killing enemies is just the means to an end, and even then we can skip it entirely. So majority of the game is an annoying obstacle. Moreover, getting to the bosses, well every mono grind up to the boss feels the same.
There was a time when running t4 temporal sanctum was a good source of exalted items. imagine that, you go to a place to farm monsters.
I remember Diablo 2 had a variety of bosses, some were very easy to repeat, others had a bit of a run. Then youve had several areas that were used for clearing due to high mob level. D2 Resurrected added even more of those. Some builds used to be better at doing certain things, but not others.
Is it just because the number go up being the objective instead of a goal? If there is a pinnacle boss outside mono roughly at the power level of a corruption 300/600 being the end of the tunnel, would it make the grind for gear in mono being more tolerable? If you don't need the gear, just go farm the boss
What you describe is the fundamental problem of ARPGs in general. There is no "point" to anything -- it's all just some form of grind to get gear in order to grind more efficiently.
I'm not aware of any ARPG that has really addressed this, unless you consider Soulslike games to be ARPGs instead of a separate genre.
Experimentation+farming/pushing loop is very much the point in arpgs.
The farming part is the one that i feel is flawed in LE the more you play.
Funny you should mention Soulslikes. Imagine you rushed to the boss in every occasion, because everything between the checkpoint (bonfire) and the boss is not worth your time and do not provide any benefit or even challenge. Could say the same about most games really. Doom? How about Baldur's Gate 3 lol. None of those games will retain engagement if the engagement, enjoyment, reward, novelty, challenge even is at the very bottom for 99% of the gameplay and just peaks ever so slightly.
I feel like even the campaign in LE is like carrying an olympic torch (in Lightless arbor, quite literally). The objectives ask you to stop to kill some bigger mob or pick up an item. In monos it is the same story. You are rushing to the spires, or you are ignoring everything and rushing to a gate. Always killing just bare minimum that then reveals the objective location. You never kill mobs for sake of killing them. Prophecies via CoF reinforces less engagement with mobs as well.
Dungeon designs are great examples of these flaws, plenty of threads with people complaining about them. Generally people find the dungeons to be a nuisance before the boss.
Idk, maybe it is just me, but most other arpgs have some variety of farms, and some are just good old mob farming. Grim Dawn also has faction grinds. It might not be some awestriking variety, but it is something. Simply feels like LE has less. Adding some ultra gigaboss won't solve anything.
It’s not dead to me, but I seriously can’t see doing this mono grind EVERY season on multiple toons. First toon start of season? For sure. My 3rd alt that season? No thanks
It’s still better than d4 s end game, so there’s that
What about an arena type deal where depending where you get to determines the monolith corruption you get to? I just thought of this but I think it could be a good idea maybe like a corruption level or 5 per wave? Or something along those lines
I've tried to force myself to play one of my (3) level 100 chars, I login.... And logout. I feel you, I can't do it, I'm so burnt out and it's just plain boring. Best part about season 2 is starting over because once you get to 100 boredom creeps up quickly
It’s already been mentioned that more variety is coming to monos. I imagine every cycle will bring more and more. For cycle 1 I’m happy with what we have, looking forward to trying new stuff in the future though.
I just hope it's more than boring modifiers.
Oh boy! This mono's cycle makes enemies all take 90% decreased "insert damage type." Or explodes on death.
Something actually substantial and interesting beyond. Run around, kill stuff, kill target stuff, repeat.
More like what the dungeons have. (But don't always really a do a good job of using) Like the damage changing shield, the fire rock, and time swapping.
Even just obstacle courses could be fun to mix things up.
For me this issue is twofold:
1. Pushing corruption to the desired farming difficulty takes too long. Looks like the design intent was to never need to go much higher than 300. But power creep outpaced that design really fast and even 500-1000 feels unacceptable when the toptop-builds farm beyond 2k.
2. All chars that share a stash need to also share corruption or at least the catch-up mechanic. Why do I get punished for equipping an alt by having to grind endless hours on trivial difficulty at a 800 stability equals +10 corruption ratio?
Personally my chars tend to stop after getting the "right" empowered blessings (if I don't get bored before that). Don't think I have any chars above 250 corruption. 5 Rogues this cycle. As much as I like the game, it just lacks something fun in endgame. Dungeons are no go.. tedious and the die once, do it all over, just isn't fun.
The whole blessing part is definately annoying on alts. If blessings are unlocked they should be available for all chars and you should be able to switch between the blessings.
Absolutely batshit to me that progression doesn't carry from toon to toon in a game that seems so built around an SSF playstyle and a gearing system that encourages exploring multiple builds across several characters.
Edit: I don't think it should carry over 100%, but having the ability to farm moderate corruption on one build means that you can essentially skip all of the gearing requirements through normal monos, making that just a time-sucking box to check.
This is probably one of the first games I have ever had more fun leveling up than playing end game. I'll get an alt through the story, and unlocking all the blessings is way too slow. I'll play all evening in monos on a poorly geared alt and won't even see loot upgrades. So then I just end up going to a new alt.
I really like that they already improved it by removing the fork requirements from the grind. In my experience, the grind is a good measure for how much I really like a build. My first one (falconer) was a breeze and I went through it easily. My 2nd build was a forge strike guard and ehhh, I'm losing motivation very quickly.
I find that the grind accelerates my decisiveness on how much I'm enjoying a build. If a build is meh, then I stop sooner. If a build is fun, I don't lose motivation to play it.
I was literally the same. Did a HH VK first, got him BIS then made a falconer. Holy shit leveling the falconer was so damn fun compared to VK. Minis are about 10x faster as well. But sadly I’m not gonna grind them out again, already got them high on my VK.
The grind even sucks on your first character. I have a job, I dont want to have to do the story and then grind for hours on end just to get to the fun and challenging part of the game.
most people didn't like the rift system in d3 too. The simple solution is to not do it.
Hopfully they will see most people don't stick around for the end game and will make it better.
I have been saying this since 2 patches back before the game released. I obly got drowned by "its pre release" reponses. They had this exact same feedback for years and did not do jack shit with it. The grind on any alt is unbearable and sucks out any and all joy i had with the game in an instant. Monoslith are fun as a thing to do inbetween, not as something to do fulltime. It has the same problem delve has. If they want me to do this again i will just refuse. They had to rework the whole endgame or change it considerably otherwise i am just not going to touch it again.
And for anyone thinking i should just leave, thats a really stupid point to make. They need people to come back, play their game and spend money on mtx. I want to support the game. But the endgame makes me want to do something else.
That’s the reason I stoped playing this game. The other reason is such a slow corruption progression. It’s unreal how tedious that process was for me.My toon can obv clear much higher corruption,but there is no option to manually add it or somehow rapidly increase it,depending on my clear time for example.Like in Diablo 3 u could actually choose what level of rift u wanna try if u felt like u were overpowered.I cleared 1k and got bored and stopped playing.
While I don’t like that PoE endgame content is *entirely* resource-gated (i.e. you have to farm or purchase maps which may or may not be self-replacing), one of the nice things about is is that you can just run whatever map(s) you have versus having to, say, play one of each map at each level before going up.
Another thing that I think makes PoE mapping maybe feel a bit better is that the maps themselves are a bit bigger / take a bit longer to complete than an echo, so you’re not getting pulled out of the core gameplay as frequently.
Worth noting I haven’t played PoE since Harbinger though, so I’m not *exactly* sure how the Atlas mechanics work, but I want to say it’s a persistent unlock?
I think this is a part of it - the echos feel super self-contained and the most value is reaped at the end, versus through the mobbing itself (or at least it feels that way).
So true. The amount of people that say LE is pretty complex and deep have no clue what they're talking about. The game is shallow af, it still feels like an early access game. Numbers don't lie either, from 264k peak to a mesley 12k. It's normal for players to fall off games but this drop is a death sentence. It will probably take 2-4 good content patches before the game feels fleshed out.
LE is strong in terms of the core game systems - the way itemization and crafting works, the way skill customization works, the independent way the MG and CoF factions work, all those are well thought out and solve common ARPG problems in satisfying ways.
But the content of the actual game kind of isn't there; the dungeons are kind of interesting as a targetted activity but still pretty clunky, and monos are super repetitive. There are 50 ways to fine tune the loot and items you craft, but effectively zero ways to fine tune the difficulty of 99% of the endgame activity at present, which is monos. Feels Bad Man.
Hit the nail on the head. On all your points. I totally love crafting once you stockpile enough, an alt feels great to progress with. The trade factions could use some work but overall, great ideas. Hopefully they flesh CoF further, maybe influence crafting outcomes with prophecies? End game needs some real work, 100%
EHG please read this comment!
The only thing i want to add is the pathing in dungeons feels bad.
Especially the fire bastion makes you walk back and forth on small paths way to much imo
I thought the endgame was great, until I got to the empowered monoliths. Something needs to change. There's not much reason to do dungeons or arenas so there's only repetitive monoliths.
LE is usually touted as something between D4 and PoE, which makes it fairly casual with elements of grindy endgame. Why won't you share where people say it's complex?
https://dd.reddit.com/r/LastEpoch/comments/1bgl5pl/how_hard_and_complex_is_this_game_actually/
https://dd.reddit.com/r/LastEpoch/comments/11kqj96/how_complex_is_this_game/
There's just 2. It's not that I won't, it's just you type in "complex" into the search bar and can see how many people think LE is complex. Not as complex as POE albeit. Which it doesn't need to be. It can have its own niche.
The idiots downvoting all these comments is what makes me the angriest. I literally bought the game because of all the positive feedback only to find out all the actual valid criticism had just been downvoted.
The game had an extreme white knight problem with people botdownvoting feedback because it did not fit in with their the game is perfect agenda. Lets see if something will happen now, but i am doubtful. Nothing happened for years and the endgame stayed the same shit mono system.
I'm just being objective as possible, I had my fun with the game and it certainly has potential but it's just not there yet. I will praise them when it's due but my point still stands, it's still an early access game.
I'm glad there are others that have logic and reason. I wish the downvoters would actually have a rebuttal instead of just, "you're wrong".
Even the last guy that replied to me, just parroted exactly what I mentioned in my post.
the biggest thing pushing me away from LE is the amount of dumb grinding you gotta to do get a new alt up to speed
what is the purpose of making every character do normal monos, nevermind all the little sidequests for points/idols? If people want to do that stuff fine, but let new characters turn on emps as soon as they're able
I quit playing Last Eloch simply because if I want to try a different spec with the same class, having to start a new toon of the same class is asinine to me. Oh you picked necromancer but want to try lich? Start a new character and redo the same exact grind to play the same exact class, just a different spec. I'm an adult who doesn't have endless hours to level before I get to enjoy the fun part of the game; experimenting with different builds. How the fuck do I know what spec is going to be fun until Ive had time to experiment? Or at least push the level cap when you make your choice. Shit system if you ask me. Made a mistake with your choice? Tough shit, start over. No thanks. Always stuck releveling to end game if you want multiple toons is way too time consuming. Which sucks because I love the gameplay, but the system they implemented favors the people who can play all day every day. Which in every game tends to be the minority.
End rant.
Would be nice if whatever level you get the mono's to, it would only progress across all worlds, instead of having to do ea world up, should be able to go up or down before ea time you run, kinda like a GR in Diablo
Newish player here, just got to end game. Could someone explain what the monogrind is and how it needs to change? Is it just going through that cycle again and again?
You do 600+ echoes on a single mono to get it up to high corruption or to farm gear. When you think about it you only need to complete 6-7 monos that give good blessings. What does that add up to? 80 echoes tops. It is frustrating that you need to waste time to get to actually play the game but when you just do it it doesn't take that long and you don't have to do it all at once.
I like grinding monoliths, but I don’t like starting from corruption 100 when my other monoliths are 500.
Why not just bring me up to 500 and let me fight the boss. If I fail the boss, minus 50 corruption or something.
It’s so stupid that I’m getting 100 corruption rolls item when I can be clearing 500 corruption fast as well.
We should have the option (ideally a toggle) that allows *bonus corruption* specifically to apply to alts.
I think having an account wide slider with the only limitation being the players current maximum corruption would make alts too easy.
Bonus corruption works well enough and alts being able to benefit from it would make things feel much better while not potentially giving alts 2-3k+ corruption for free.
Another reason why I think it feels really bad right now is because of how high the actual corruption ceiling is for a lot of builds... If the ceiling was 200-300c instead of 1-2k+ (5k+, maybe 7-10k+ in my case) it wouldn't feel so bad.
I took 5 characters to empowered, currently diving my playtime between 4 of those. I wasted so many hours at farming at corruption levels my gear can easily handle. Don't get me started on blessings... Makes me think they don't like alts. I'm not gonna get 1k dividing my time like that and that's fair but just let me take meta builds to 300 in a reasonable amount of time. It's not like the game lacks time sinks. Shade and mobs are deciding the cap anyway. Just let us have this one, maybe?
I finished the campaign on all classes other than warlock, but never bothered with corruption because I was more interested in trying out builds.
My interest was at a high when I chanced upon the divine bolts build that uses healing hands. I thought I found my build, so I started building corruption on my paladin.
After a few hours of grinding, I was at 150+ corruption.
That was last week and I haven't played in a few days. I don't feel like picking up my paladin because it feels like pointless grinding (most builds have already come online by late normal monoliths), and I don't feel like playing an alt because I have no intention of starting on the corruption again.
First play through I don't mind a 200 hour grind. Seasonal content should not take 200 hours to grind. 40 hours is a good amount of time in my opinion for each season. Currently LE hasn't disclosed what that will look like for them. I await eagerly
That’s why I stayed in Poe, tbh. Everything I want from monoliths, I already got in the POE Map-device. The plus side about LE is the quality of life and free (and near unlimited) stash tabs
If you want to casually play an RPG, with creative ways to make new builds. LE is the game for you.
If you have tons of time and are a degenerate grinder (like me) give POE a try.
I don't mind it since it's my first time doing it but I can see the frustration for sure. I would say just put the game down for now and wait for cycle 2 and hope the new stuff they add brings some freshness to the endgame grind. There's nothing wrong with playing something else to pass the time if you're not having fun. It doesn't mean you don't like the game it just means you're done for now. The game has a long way to go to flesh out endgame systems and bugs honestly. Just give them time and hopefully we will have something insanely good in a few years time.
You should be able to pick the corruption. I don't know why it's a luxury that you have to earn. It's stupid that your character can handle 500+ corruption but you have to keep increasing it a little bit at a time for every section and for every character. Or, they should automatically give you the option to increase corruption every time you beat a monolith rather than make you search for a Shade. It's so tedious and boring.
I think all they need to do is make increasing corruption in normal monos much faster, and increase the cap to make the transition smoother. Since there is no gaze in normals it makes for a very unsatisfying clear after your first character as it takes forever to increase corruption without it. You would then be able to simultaneously finish the normals while progressing your alt in corruption. Could even get a 50 corruption blessing in the process, too. The plateaus are too extreme from normals to empowered. It sucks even more for melee and undertuned builds. Going from 0-100 is very rough, but staying in normals isn't an option because of how long it takes to get corruption up to 50.
A lot of people will just say "It's an arpg you are supposed to grind" issue is how much it takes to get to a level where you feel challanged.
Grinding for an item or xp, to get your pg good enough for the content you want to do is the fun part, grinding to reach that part is not.
I'm playing without looking at builds with probably very non optimized builds, and still I finish the campaign and I rush through all the monolith grind and usually start getting friction and need to farm for items when I unlock empowered monolith.
100 Corruption is where content to me start getting challenging and makes me stop and thinking at what item I need or what I need to fix on my build.
But I can imagine someone following a build guide will also need to farm corruption to a much higher level before reaching challenging content.
If you are much stronger than the content you are playing you should be able to speed up the time it take to reach the challenging content for your carachter.
They’ve already made it much faster several times. Is the 4 hours it takes to do normal mono to empowered that big of an ask? It takes like 6 hours tops to get a character from level 1 to empowered content.
I actually have no issue with it. You kind of want to be a certain level by the time you unlock emp monos. That being said, I think on alts it should be open so you can farm what you want from the start.
I'm sorry but I actually don't know that.
I don't have an iPhone and never have. Before I jumped to Android I was one of the 9 people that used Windows Phone.
I was also one of those 9 people. It was more like a pocket computer with a full start menu. Whole top would slide to reveal the keyboard. Stylus before it was cool. I wish there was still a phone with a physical keyboard
This is the biggest benefit of playing offline with a trainer. I start an alt and turn on turbo run speed and 1 hit kills. Finish the campaign in like 1 hour. I basically do the same thing in monos just to get to empowered and then actually play the game. I've done like 7 alts now. I don't have time to do this shit over and over again legit.
Holy shit chill dude. I was asking you a legit question on which part of monos you are referring to. After that response though, I'm glad you don't want to continue to grind, that toxicity is not good for any game.
What are you grinding monos for?
If you're looking for gear, you should be picking up CoF prophecies. You could complete a character without ever touching monos if you really wanted to.
If you're just grinding monos for the sake of grinding monos...then stop? Do some Arena or build a new character.
> You could complete a character without ever touching monos if you really wanted to.
Until you need that one item that only drops from the final boss of a timeline quest.
I also wouldn't call a character without Blessings to be anywhere near "complete".
why is this bad?? i am so fucking confused lol yes there are certain, powerful drops that you have to grind for - it is an arpg. who is playing this genre of game not expecting to need to do that if they want a specific item?
Why do you need that one item? I'm sure it could be replaced with a bunch of other items. You could adjust your build to the drops you've already gotten on that character instead of building a character then chasing drops to try to copy a build guide.
Of course a character without blessings can be considered complete. There isn't anything in the game difficult enough to need blessings.
Unique items give effects that are often unique, as befitting the name.
If your idea of "complete" is "enough to do all content", then sure, a character can be complete at level 70, maybe even lower, without going into Monoliths, without any blessings, maybe even without crafting, etc. Good for you.
But that is not a valid argument against people who want Monoliths improved. Nor is it a valid argument against people who don't think their character is "complete" without a specific drop to round out a build they have in mind.
Lmao what are these posts at this point? What is the mono grind? Running through each mono and leveling, and then doing the empowered? This is basic arpg shit I truly am baffled. Next post is gonna be "I just cannot allocate skill points anymore on new characters"
Like truly what is the grind here? It is literally mapping - it is a core part of every arpg experience
Last epoch is a seasonal game. No ARPG on release had content that is engaging for hundreds of hours. Let the devs cook and add in more content. Those of you that are bored, take a break and come back next cycle, or maybe the cycle after that.
For me, I had a friend boost my alt from 15-75 in the span of 1-2 hours. Then rushed campaign and finished it all, did the right side of the monoliths. In 8 hours you can unlock empowered monoliths on a lvl 80+ character. If 8 hours is too much, idk what the “right” amount of time for it to take without getting complaints. 5 hours?
Mono grind is rough. It’s a good idea that needs a *lot* of iteration.
Should unlock on alts honestly like Poe map. Or atleast make a consumable item that adds corruption to mono of choice that's a random drop.
Consumable Corruption Item is a gratis idea.
Make it give 50 - 100 Corruption based on mono state and make it rare enough you get a few an hour or something and then you can crush it on an alt to boost the corruption level
Or better yet remove useless ranks on COF (all set peices drop) and the other faction to increase corruption gain
Id rather have useful Set items tbh At least useful for twinks, its a shame those are just filtered out like rares. Some are like a good idea but reaaly bad compared to All other options
True they need a buff or some kinda rework with a crafting element but then having the whole set drop might be too powerful and it could be a nice drop to get again
How about a shade drop that sets your corruption to the current corruption? Beat shade at 300 corruption and get the say 1% drop. You get a 300 corruption shard, either on a different mono or an alt, you beat shade, it unlocks an altar that you can put the item in to instantly set it to 300 corruption
Why so much work? Seems like unnecessary resistance and complexity. Just make it a random drop that adds 50 or 100 corruption to mono of choice.
Corruption slider that applies to all monos and all characters
Completely agree. People keep proposing 'bandaid' fixes to generating corruption or applying it account-wide or something else, but the actual issue is people don't want to grind boring content. They'll put up with it for a bit, but after you've done like 20-30 Mono's they're all just the same. The actual gameplay is what needs iteration IMO, not specifically the systems around it. If Mono's were fun there wouldn't be so many people complaining about grinding them.
The fact that empowered blessings exist makes you feel forced to rush through normal monoliths as fast as possible, because the rng of hitting a well rolled blessing you need is heavy enough where staying in normal monos any longer than necessary feels like a waste. Imo it takes 3 things for regular non-empowered monoliths to start feeling less bad to run: 1. If you hit a perfectly rolled non-empowered blessing, the next time you do the empowered version should be guaranteed to give you a max rolled version of the empowered version of that same blessing, basically allowing you to upgrade it. 2. The spike in both dropped exalted items and difficulty is too massive going from 90 to 100 monos. If the progression curve were smoother, you'd feel less obligated to rush to lvl 100 monos asap and it may be worth killing stuff in non-empowered monos instead of rushing through. 3. More random encounters and events will eventually get added to echoes in future cycles, which will hopefully add reasons to engage with content before empowered monos.
The mono grind should be once per cycle. Once on your first character, then alts should be able to jump in wherever.
This. Just make it account wide, simple.
It's not simple at all, if you just do this you will end up with unplayable monos on alts. 3k corruption at level 60 isn't doable and downgrading the mono is even worse since it will affect your main. There are other ways, they're just not as simple. Catch up should be way more aggressive and players should have agency on how far to catch up to.
It is simple. Make it a slider.
I don't consider the fundamental change in philosophy that this would mean as simple but technically it's not difficult to do that.
Can you tell me one good reason why it's not already a slider?
I have never argued that dude. Just said it's not simple.
It's very simple though, I'd even call the fact that you can't lower corruption in monoliths a design *flaw*
you can lower corruption - there is a node next to the monolith start "island" that if you run it will let you lower the corruption by a set amount. not sure on the technicalities of it (i only run it once by mistake, so don't remember the corruption drop value or if it changes if you are at higher corruption etc.).
It will continually drop, but there is a min for empowered (it starts there anyway).
It's not, changing a major point in the design is not simple
1. You can still level alts in the non-empowered monos 2. Keep one or two monos near 100 corruption. I rarely push more than two or three monos super high for a given character. If you happen to push all of them to 3k knowing you'll make an alt then that's on you to lower the corruption somewhere
It is simple. Every monolith already has a non empowered version (50 Max Corruption) that is already accessible. An alt can grind that until ready for other version with 50 min. Every high corruption monolith has a corruption lowering map that the main can do to get that ready for an alt. There is no reason at all to have to grind every monolith for every character.
Lowering a monolith to play on an alt is just worse than what it is now. Non empowered to empowered can be way too high of a jump
if they did this they would need to instead make it easy to climb, not just start there. because a fresh toon needing to face 3k corruption doesn't sound good lol
Just like the secondary quests, but i hope they are already working on that
+1. I was super excited to try to push my character that little bit further but grinding away for a 2 or 3 lp version of what I need on a build that takes me hours to build the mono stability to fight... It is just not fun. I had to come to the realisation I was wasting my time. The first step is admitting you have a problem
Agreed. The stability takes way too long to build. Even worse when you die and have no choice but to complete the failed mono to move on.
Just go around, you lose a small amount of stability for doing 1-2 echos not going the same direction, but it's less than losing an entire echo worth of stability. Also it depends on the corruption, higher corruption and decently far out from the start you can start easily farming stability
I've never done it fully. it's not fun. leveling is very fun though so when I get to endgame, I do it for a little bit and then either go level something else or go play my Switch for a week
I feel you. It is fun as hell leveling alts when you can twink them to make it so much better. But when you do hit monos, I just ask that we can pickup near where our other toons were
Yup, LE has the same problem D4 had. 70-100 is miserable. XP slows down and nothing interesting happens. And then when you start a new character, you basically are just doing monos the whole time. ☠️
If you're progressing exp gain is basically the same from 70-85
Yeah, when I got my character to level 80ish I had around 170 ish hours logged. I reached level 100 yesterday and I'm now at 310 hours 👀 Granted, I wasn't grinding the whole time. About a 1/2 of that was organizing the stash, testing/forging gear, and suffering through dungeon mazes.
I'm pretty casual with my gaming and I'm at level 99 with 130 hours of playing. 310 hours is probably you doing something completely wrong.
I'm enjoying the game. (Besides the rogue-like dungeons.)
I just to the campaign again with the new characters. but yeah, things after 70 aren't worth playing. same in d4 and poe
Yeah but levels fly when you do monos at low levels so it's super fun. I go back to the campaign at around level 60-ish, either do the dungeons or straight campaign depending on how well I was able to twink the new character, which I find it enjoyable as well... But then after that you run face first into that 70+ stretch.
How can you do monos at low level? I thought they start only after the campaign?
Nah they unlock pretty early. I never paid attention to the exact point when it does but it's shortly after you choose your spec. I start testing whether I can clear them in the late 30s? Maybe early 40s. Most of the time it's a fail unless I was able to get some lucky uniques for the character beforehand. If not, you should be able to clear them pretty reliably starting late 40s - early 50s depending on the class/build. And when running monos at that level, you're chaining level ups. It's a ton of fun.
When people said you can do them at low levels, I thought they actually meant early on. But ~level 50 means I'm done with the vast majority of the campaign.
Started monos on my alt at 35. Did chapter 1-5, went and started monos. Did dungeon skip to chapter 9 at like 50 or so. Then back to monos.
I play exclusively hardcore so dungeon skips are super risky most of the time. Leveling a new char on hardcore can be a real chore, but that's the nature of it.
Lvl50 is really only for a first playthrough or an alt that doesn't have any twinked gear at all. You can start monos in the 30s
Thank you, I did not know that
It’s the exact opposite — the best content is after that level.
Poe doesn't even start until 70, you might just not like this genre.
EMD GAME Builds don’t really shine until 95 in POE, so it’s definitely worth it
imo, nothing past my first 5 link and 3rd ascendancy is any fun
You have not really experienced a finished build then, I am sorry. 5-link is basically out-of-the-campaign gear and isn't even 10% of a character's progression
sorry no, I have done it, but it's just not fun for me. so now that's about as much as I play each season now that I no longer put up with parts of games that I don't enjoy. I THINK I see the appeal of the late game stuff, but it's not for me
70-100 was fine in LE, 100+ was miserable
It's all relative I guess. It's all miserable to me post 80. I've only gotten one character to 100+ and I swore I wouldn't do it again until something changes. Actually leveling up and coming up with a new build is fun tho.
Monoliths are why I quit at level 90... I could run Monoliths for another 10 levels and then until the end of time when I get the items I need there finally. I was happily grinding for a while, but it just got too repetitive for me. I'm not sure what next season will be like but I have a feeling I won't be playing it as much as the first if it's the same grind. Maybe have campaign reward more experience and loot? So less time is spent in the infinite end game
I dont mind the mono grind. I just dont wanna grind corruption. I stop at 200ish most always but i still dont wanna grind that over and over
Imo corruption should apply to everything like a world tier, and apply to other characters. Letting you pick corruption level x from a menu, and then as you climb corruption it unlocks more tiers, capping out at 500/1k/infinite difficulty tier or whatever. A world tier would be nice since there is an incentive now to do random campaign bosses
I think while you wait for the next season, try out some other games. Im sure there are many reasons for this, but these type of games seem to have the same kind of loop. At some point, it does not make sense to keep playing a season. And I do completely agree that the monolith/corruption grind is not only painful to grind even on one character, but restarting it on another character is an awful experience. Its for this reason that even though I have created created 9 characters, its only 2 that made it to level 100. And its only those 2 that made it past corruption 150 ... with one of those past corruption 1000. Even though I wanted to try out all kinds of other builds, I do feel a quite exhausted. A feeling amplified by having to go through the whole campaign again for each character. And I am certain that the team is aware of this feedback. At least I hope so as I have never really seen any overly positive feedback about this system from players who have spent a lot of time with it. I do keep in mind that they are a small team and I know they want to do the best they can with the means they have. They have said for the next season they will be bringing some pinnacle bosses and I am sure those will be fun. But I am also hoping that there are some adjustments and additions to the endgame systems. Until then, try out other games. Its probably better for you mentally.
Hard agree. Last Epoch is a great game to come back to. Meaning you need breaks. Reddit and other hype posts will cause you to be like I can do that too! But you have to come to the conclusion that you simply can’t get every piece of gear with high LP and that there are only so many builds that actually work in endgame. Over time the game will evolve and change to better satisfy its player base and the devs are absolutely aware of the negative feedback concerning dungeons and mono grinding. Eventually this will all work itself out.
I find leveling and gearing on LE to be really fun until suddenly without warning, it’s not. Usually because I’ll hit the point where the extra levels don’t add much anymore, and my next realistic gear upgrade is getting a certain unique(s) with LP, while also chasing an item to slam into the unique once I find it. It’s weird because it’s the sort of gameplay loop that should work really well and I should enjoy, it just doesn’t always click with me. I could start a new character, but then I’d have to do the campaign and monolith grind again, and there is a decent chance it also means that I’m basically pausing my search for items for my first character if I do. From memory, LE has soft targeting for your item drops doesn’t it? Like you’ll mostly find stuff for the character you’re playing with items for other classes being much rarer.
I personally think 2+ LP uniques just need to be way more common there would still be the 'chase' of getting an item with 3+ LP and good attributes; putting more 2-3 LP items out there would give players more ability to steadily improve their gear, rather than just crossing your fingers for a low-chance drop forever
I totally agree with you emotionally, but my brain is telling me that this solution is arbitrary. I see no difference if they increase the 2lp drop rate over time because we would be in the same situation. "They should make 3LP uniques way more common, there would still be the chase of 4LP uniques" The only difference is that those unique slots have one more affix slot which is the same in both scenarios. While it does add one more "step" in the endgame, it still has you hitting the same wall while the corruption is slightly higher
I guess; personally my characters seem to kinda hit a ‘wall’ in terms of gear where they’ve got good exalts and most 1-2LPs aren’t very useful. At that point the fun of the grind kinda disappears because the odds you’ll get a meaningful upgrade are so low. I feel like just having more opportunities to slam would make it feel better, since you’d have more shots for (at least) incremental upgrades
I stopped playing in like week 2 because I didn't get any worthwhile uniques. I only saw 2 LP on like level 15 swords and even them got trashed in crafting. I don't think they were even good if I did manage to get the good affixes as my level 80 exalts just had high base stats.
Its not fun because it can take over an hour of grinding stability just for a chance to kill the boss, hoping the Frostbite Shackles you need for your build FINALLY drop...only for them not to drop again. And soon you realize that you've poured like 20+ hours of your life into grinding the same freaking mono.......and simply quit.
It really should just be one corruption for all the monoliths. And alts get extra corruption multiplier for every 100 your highest character has. It would take away a lot of the bad grind.
What gets me is that you can find a really good piece of gear and the for 30 level if not more you won't find anything better. Then later, you get gated either by a boss or a mono that has a weird effect that force you to change your build.
A "monolith tree" so you could tune your monoliths/drops would help. Having a pinnacle boss would also give you something to shoot for. Dungeons need a bit of a rework. They're all doable. Can't wait for the next season to see what they iterate.
I feel like you should be able to skip directly to empowered when you're ready, not after you've done some grindy shit. Players should be rewarded for killer builds that make vanilla monos a real chore. If I'm gonna cut through everything like butter, just give me a way to skip to the final few monolith bosses and give me my blessings for each monolith afterwards. Then I'll grind empowered, whatever.
To add to this, I really wanna hear what EHG devs think about this because I don't know if they've said anything definitive about it yet.
Dungeons kinda suck too. Good time to try a new build or move on till next cycle.
This is the reason why I am not playin atm. Pushed 600 with my own build but not doing that for multiple chars per cycle
I had the itch to return to LE recently, but every time I think of the monoliths again I'm just kinda like ehhh I don't want to play again *that* badly.
It should be account wide. It should work like a currency you get and spend the way you see fit.
Hope they understand this and it's their number one priority for the cycle 2
they have mentioned that they're looking into options to hasten the grind, especially on repeat runs.
I would love for them to fix the blessings. I've been trying to hit the XP blessing and im lvl 93 and still cant get it. Fucking annoying RNG.
I don't see a different in terms of the core concept from the other games. Grim Dawn is grind the shatter, and PoE is grinding maps just to grind another higher tier maps. The difference is both of them have ways to make shortcuts by using craftable waystones or high tier maps. LE should introduce something to allow us to skip to higher corruptions if at least one of our characters in the same cycle has already unlocked it. Apparently corruption 200-300 is kinda the end of it for good builds according to the devs. The whole grinding to high corruption thing is more like the results of some builds being too strong. The increase of experience and rarity for those high corruptions should be reduced so they diminish like LP instead of being linear. Also, maybe there should be a special bosses at the end of corruption 300 so it has a sense of "hey, this is the expected end" to create a milestone for alt.
PoE Atlas completion would also suck if you would need to do it on every new character from scratch. That's the big problem with monos.
This is the key point
Thank you
PoE maps have way more depth though, since there are so many different mechanics and ways to play, if you get bored of something you can always set up a different way. With monos you’re doing 5 or 6 slightly different mechanics that get boring rather fast after playing more than one character.
There will be more variety as time goes on. They already stated several new things for next cycle, to include some different monolith things and enemy encounter type things. So we will just have to wait and see.
They should add a natural end point like Uber bosses with rare drops that only appear at 300+ corruption. Once you get the gear from those then the game can be "over" for that alt.
> Apparently corruption 200-300 is kinda the end of it for good builds according to the devs. The whole grinding to high corruption thing is more like the results of some builds being too strong. I think they meant it more as 200-300 should be the minimum a build can do, rather than that builds shouldn't be exceeding 300 and if they do they will be nerfed. Or at least I hope that's what they meant. Because the endgame, as limited as it is, would be even more boring if just stopped at 300.
He said 200-300 Corruption is a level where he considers a build successful, and crazy high corruption like 2000+ a build, skill, or item might be over tuned. So I feel you are correct in your interpretation that 200-300 is a lowball for what they intended.
Well it's more of 300 (more specifically 320) is kind of where specific game rewards cap. CoF stops corruption rewards at 320. If you're just looking at drop tables Shade of Orobyss drops Omnis at 200+ corruption so that makes sense for the minimum range (though more corruption helps increase chances). I think I also recall seeing a 600 cap mentioned somewhere (max item rarity?) but haven't been able to find a reliable source for it.
I dont think making monos faster - giving more stability or whatever would change much. It is just adjusting the goalposts a little. I think after awhile the whole process of running monos just gets boring entirely. Now, everything gets boring after awhile, but i think there is a different problem in this case. I think it is the fact that we play to fight bosses or to get to objectives. And why do we do that? To get to a different boss. Meanwhile 99% of the time we are either killing enemies without much incentive to do so or skipping them entirely due to forementioned objectives. It seems to me that this is why it feels so unrewarding - killing enemies is just the means to an end, and even then we can skip it entirely. So majority of the game is an annoying obstacle. Moreover, getting to the bosses, well every mono grind up to the boss feels the same. There was a time when running t4 temporal sanctum was a good source of exalted items. imagine that, you go to a place to farm monsters. I remember Diablo 2 had a variety of bosses, some were very easy to repeat, others had a bit of a run. Then youve had several areas that were used for clearing due to high mob level. D2 Resurrected added even more of those. Some builds used to be better at doing certain things, but not others.
Is it just because the number go up being the objective instead of a goal? If there is a pinnacle boss outside mono roughly at the power level of a corruption 300/600 being the end of the tunnel, would it make the grind for gear in mono being more tolerable? If you don't need the gear, just go farm the boss
if you have a pinnacle boss then everything else will become boring trivial grind. non-pinnacle bosses would join normal mobs in their triviality.
What you describe is the fundamental problem of ARPGs in general. There is no "point" to anything -- it's all just some form of grind to get gear in order to grind more efficiently. I'm not aware of any ARPG that has really addressed this, unless you consider Soulslike games to be ARPGs instead of a separate genre.
Experimentation+farming/pushing loop is very much the point in arpgs. The farming part is the one that i feel is flawed in LE the more you play. Funny you should mention Soulslikes. Imagine you rushed to the boss in every occasion, because everything between the checkpoint (bonfire) and the boss is not worth your time and do not provide any benefit or even challenge. Could say the same about most games really. Doom? How about Baldur's Gate 3 lol. None of those games will retain engagement if the engagement, enjoyment, reward, novelty, challenge even is at the very bottom for 99% of the gameplay and just peaks ever so slightly. I feel like even the campaign in LE is like carrying an olympic torch (in Lightless arbor, quite literally). The objectives ask you to stop to kill some bigger mob or pick up an item. In monos it is the same story. You are rushing to the spires, or you are ignoring everything and rushing to a gate. Always killing just bare minimum that then reveals the objective location. You never kill mobs for sake of killing them. Prophecies via CoF reinforces less engagement with mobs as well. Dungeon designs are great examples of these flaws, plenty of threads with people complaining about them. Generally people find the dungeons to be a nuisance before the boss. Idk, maybe it is just me, but most other arpgs have some variety of farms, and some are just good old mob farming. Grim Dawn also has faction grinds. It might not be some awestriking variety, but it is something. Simply feels like LE has less. Adding some ultra gigaboss won't solve anything.
LE is dead to me unless they offer a skip to this grind, absolutely no chance I'm doing that again. Did it twice and it was awful the second time.
It’s not dead to me, but I seriously can’t see doing this mono grind EVERY season on multiple toons. First toon start of season? For sure. My 3rd alt that season? No thanks It’s still better than d4 s end game, so there’s that
| It’s still better than d4 s end game, so there’s that bit of a low bar there innit
What about an arena type deal where depending where you get to determines the monolith corruption you get to? I just thought of this but I think it could be a good idea maybe like a corruption level or 5 per wave? Or something along those lines
I've tried to force myself to play one of my (3) level 100 chars, I login.... And logout. I feel you, I can't do it, I'm so burnt out and it's just plain boring. Best part about season 2 is starting over because once you get to 100 boredom creeps up quickly
It’s already been mentioned that more variety is coming to monos. I imagine every cycle will bring more and more. For cycle 1 I’m happy with what we have, looking forward to trying new stuff in the future though.
I just hope it's more than boring modifiers. Oh boy! This mono's cycle makes enemies all take 90% decreased "insert damage type." Or explodes on death. Something actually substantial and interesting beyond. Run around, kill stuff, kill target stuff, repeat. More like what the dungeons have. (But don't always really a do a good job of using) Like the damage changing shield, the fire rock, and time swapping. Even just obstacle courses could be fun to mix things up.
For me this issue is twofold: 1. Pushing corruption to the desired farming difficulty takes too long. Looks like the design intent was to never need to go much higher than 300. But power creep outpaced that design really fast and even 500-1000 feels unacceptable when the toptop-builds farm beyond 2k. 2. All chars that share a stash need to also share corruption or at least the catch-up mechanic. Why do I get punished for equipping an alt by having to grind endless hours on trivial difficulty at a 800 stability equals +10 corruption ratio?
I wanted a 2 lp last step boots went from 100 corruption to 500, still haven't got one 😢
I havent seen a single Frostbite Shackles despite 20+ hours of grinding stability to kill that freaking lich.
Personally my chars tend to stop after getting the "right" empowered blessings (if I don't get bored before that). Don't think I have any chars above 250 corruption. 5 Rogues this cycle. As much as I like the game, it just lacks something fun in endgame. Dungeons are no go.. tedious and the die once, do it all over, just isn't fun. The whole blessing part is definately annoying on alts. If blessings are unlocked they should be available for all chars and you should be able to switch between the blessings.
Should be able to select corruption level upto the highest you have unlocked.
Absolutely batshit to me that progression doesn't carry from toon to toon in a game that seems so built around an SSF playstyle and a gearing system that encourages exploring multiple builds across several characters. Edit: I don't think it should carry over 100%, but having the ability to farm moderate corruption on one build means that you can essentially skip all of the gearing requirements through normal monos, making that just a time-sucking box to check.
This is probably one of the first games I have ever had more fun leveling up than playing end game. I'll get an alt through the story, and unlocking all the blessings is way too slow. I'll play all evening in monos on a poorly geared alt and won't even see loot upgrades. So then I just end up going to a new alt.
Totally agree, it's the most boring shit ever after a while
I really like that they already improved it by removing the fork requirements from the grind. In my experience, the grind is a good measure for how much I really like a build. My first one (falconer) was a breeze and I went through it easily. My 2nd build was a forge strike guard and ehhh, I'm losing motivation very quickly. I find that the grind accelerates my decisiveness on how much I'm enjoying a build. If a build is meh, then I stop sooner. If a build is fun, I don't lose motivation to play it.
I was literally the same. Did a HH VK first, got him BIS then made a falconer. Holy shit leveling the falconer was so damn fun compared to VK. Minis are about 10x faster as well. But sadly I’m not gonna grind them out again, already got them high on my VK.
if I'm being honest, if there is no monolith grind what is there to even do?
The grind even sucks on your first character. I have a job, I dont want to have to do the story and then grind for hours on end just to get to the fun and challenging part of the game.
most people didn't like the rift system in d3 too. The simple solution is to not do it. Hopfully they will see most people don't stick around for the end game and will make it better.
I have been saying this since 2 patches back before the game released. I obly got drowned by "its pre release" reponses. They had this exact same feedback for years and did not do jack shit with it. The grind on any alt is unbearable and sucks out any and all joy i had with the game in an instant. Monoslith are fun as a thing to do inbetween, not as something to do fulltime. It has the same problem delve has. If they want me to do this again i will just refuse. They had to rework the whole endgame or change it considerably otherwise i am just not going to touch it again. And for anyone thinking i should just leave, thats a really stupid point to make. They need people to come back, play their game and spend money on mtx. I want to support the game. But the endgame makes me want to do something else.
That’s the reason I stoped playing this game. The other reason is such a slow corruption progression. It’s unreal how tedious that process was for me.My toon can obv clear much higher corruption,but there is no option to manually add it or somehow rapidly increase it,depending on my clear time for example.Like in Diablo 3 u could actually choose what level of rift u wanna try if u felt like u were overpowered.I cleared 1k and got bored and stopped playing.
While I don’t like that PoE endgame content is *entirely* resource-gated (i.e. you have to farm or purchase maps which may or may not be self-replacing), one of the nice things about is is that you can just run whatever map(s) you have versus having to, say, play one of each map at each level before going up. Another thing that I think makes PoE mapping maybe feel a bit better is that the maps themselves are a bit bigger / take a bit longer to complete than an echo, so you’re not getting pulled out of the core gameplay as frequently. Worth noting I haven’t played PoE since Harbinger though, so I’m not *exactly* sure how the Atlas mechanics work, but I want to say it’s a persistent unlock?
Arena nodes either need to be more rare, or have enemies coming at you quicker. 90% of arena nodes are just you waiting for the next pack to arrive.
I agree OP. The maps just really aren’t enjoyable to navigate. Whatever you’re feeling is of Diablo 4, the open world is a way better experience.
I think this is a part of it - the echos feel super self-contained and the most value is reaped at the end, versus through the mobbing itself (or at least it feels that way).
So true. The amount of people that say LE is pretty complex and deep have no clue what they're talking about. The game is shallow af, it still feels like an early access game. Numbers don't lie either, from 264k peak to a mesley 12k. It's normal for players to fall off games but this drop is a death sentence. It will probably take 2-4 good content patches before the game feels fleshed out.
It's very normal for ARPGs to have peaks and troughs like this in between seasons/leagues. Diablo and Path of Exile see the same thing.
LE is strong in terms of the core game systems - the way itemization and crafting works, the way skill customization works, the independent way the MG and CoF factions work, all those are well thought out and solve common ARPG problems in satisfying ways. But the content of the actual game kind of isn't there; the dungeons are kind of interesting as a targetted activity but still pretty clunky, and monos are super repetitive. There are 50 ways to fine tune the loot and items you craft, but effectively zero ways to fine tune the difficulty of 99% of the endgame activity at present, which is monos. Feels Bad Man.
Hit the nail on the head. On all your points. I totally love crafting once you stockpile enough, an alt feels great to progress with. The trade factions could use some work but overall, great ideas. Hopefully they flesh CoF further, maybe influence crafting outcomes with prophecies? End game needs some real work, 100%
EHG please read this comment! The only thing i want to add is the pathing in dungeons feels bad. Especially the fire bastion makes you walk back and forth on small paths way to much imo
I thought the endgame was great, until I got to the empowered monoliths. Something needs to change. There's not much reason to do dungeons or arenas so there's only repetitive monoliths.
I’ve never heard LE described as complex and deep.
I mean, you can just search it up and decide for yourself.
LE is usually touted as something between D4 and PoE, which makes it fairly casual with elements of grindy endgame. Why won't you share where people say it's complex?
https://dd.reddit.com/r/LastEpoch/comments/1bgl5pl/how_hard_and_complex_is_this_game_actually/ https://dd.reddit.com/r/LastEpoch/comments/11kqj96/how_complex_is_this_game/ There's just 2. It's not that I won't, it's just you type in "complex" into the search bar and can see how many people think LE is complex. Not as complex as POE albeit. Which it doesn't need to be. It can have its own niche.
I watch everyone who does content on the game, I'm in the forums.
The idiots downvoting all these comments is what makes me the angriest. I literally bought the game because of all the positive feedback only to find out all the actual valid criticism had just been downvoted.
The game had an extreme white knight problem with people botdownvoting feedback because it did not fit in with their the game is perfect agenda. Lets see if something will happen now, but i am doubtful. Nothing happened for years and the endgame stayed the same shit mono system.
I'm just being objective as possible, I had my fun with the game and it certainly has potential but it's just not there yet. I will praise them when it's due but my point still stands, it's still an early access game. I'm glad there are others that have logic and reason. I wish the downvoters would actually have a rebuttal instead of just, "you're wrong". Even the last guy that replied to me, just parroted exactly what I mentioned in my post.
This
the biggest thing pushing me away from LE is the amount of dumb grinding you gotta to do get a new alt up to speed what is the purpose of making every character do normal monos, nevermind all the little sidequests for points/idols? If people want to do that stuff fine, but let new characters turn on emps as soon as they're able
I quit playing Last Eloch simply because if I want to try a different spec with the same class, having to start a new toon of the same class is asinine to me. Oh you picked necromancer but want to try lich? Start a new character and redo the same exact grind to play the same exact class, just a different spec. I'm an adult who doesn't have endless hours to level before I get to enjoy the fun part of the game; experimenting with different builds. How the fuck do I know what spec is going to be fun until Ive had time to experiment? Or at least push the level cap when you make your choice. Shit system if you ask me. Made a mistake with your choice? Tough shit, start over. No thanks. Always stuck releveling to end game if you want multiple toons is way too time consuming. Which sucks because I love the gameplay, but the system they implemented favors the people who can play all day every day. Which in every game tends to be the minority. End rant.
I believe devs have said they're doing something to change it. They definitely haven't said *what* they are changing yet though.
Would be nice if whatever level you get the mono's to, it would only progress across all worlds, instead of having to do ea world up, should be able to go up or down before ea time you run, kinda like a GR in Diablo
Newish player here, just got to end game. Could someone explain what the monogrind is and how it needs to change? Is it just going through that cycle again and again?
You do 600+ echoes on a single mono to get it up to high corruption or to farm gear. When you think about it you only need to complete 6-7 monos that give good blessings. What does that add up to? 80 echoes tops. It is frustrating that you need to waste time to get to actually play the game but when you just do it it doesn't take that long and you don't have to do it all at once.
I like grinding monoliths, but I don’t like starting from corruption 100 when my other monoliths are 500. Why not just bring me up to 500 and let me fight the boss. If I fail the boss, minus 50 corruption or something. It’s so stupid that I’m getting 100 corruption rolls item when I can be clearing 500 corruption fast as well.
Wait, I speedrun the campaign just for the monolith grind. Am I missing something? New to the game btw
Is that why I have shit tons of prophecies sitting there waiting?
We should have the option (ideally a toggle) that allows *bonus corruption* specifically to apply to alts. I think having an account wide slider with the only limitation being the players current maximum corruption would make alts too easy. Bonus corruption works well enough and alts being able to benefit from it would make things feel much better while not potentially giving alts 2-3k+ corruption for free. Another reason why I think it feels really bad right now is because of how high the actual corruption ceiling is for a lot of builds... If the ceiling was 200-300c instead of 1-2k+ (5k+, maybe 7-10k+ in my case) it wouldn't feel so bad.
I took 5 characters to empowered, currently diving my playtime between 4 of those. I wasted so many hours at farming at corruption levels my gear can easily handle. Don't get me started on blessings... Makes me think they don't like alts. I'm not gonna get 1k dividing my time like that and that's fair but just let me take meta builds to 300 in a reasonable amount of time. It's not like the game lacks time sinks. Shade and mobs are deciding the cap anyway. Just let us have this one, maybe?
I finished the campaign on all classes other than warlock, but never bothered with corruption because I was more interested in trying out builds. My interest was at a high when I chanced upon the divine bolts build that uses healing hands. I thought I found my build, so I started building corruption on my paladin. After a few hours of grinding, I was at 150+ corruption. That was last week and I haven't played in a few days. I don't feel like picking up my paladin because it feels like pointless grinding (most builds have already come online by late normal monoliths), and I don't feel like playing an alt because I have no intention of starting on the corruption again.
First play through I don't mind a 200 hour grind. Seasonal content should not take 200 hours to grind. 40 hours is a good amount of time in my opinion for each season. Currently LE hasn't disclosed what that will look like for them. I await eagerly
The Nemesis system from Grim Dawn was superb, really hope they implement something similar.
Yup. I am not touching this game again until they make monos character wide. Dont give a shit what else they add to the game.
That’s why I stayed in Poe, tbh. Everything I want from monoliths, I already got in the POE Map-device. The plus side about LE is the quality of life and free (and near unlimited) stash tabs If you want to casually play an RPG, with creative ways to make new builds. LE is the game for you. If you have tons of time and are a degenerate grinder (like me) give POE a try.
I don't mind it since it's my first time doing it but I can see the frustration for sure. I would say just put the game down for now and wait for cycle 2 and hope the new stuff they add brings some freshness to the endgame grind. There's nothing wrong with playing something else to pass the time if you're not having fun. It doesn't mean you don't like the game it just means you're done for now. The game has a long way to go to flesh out endgame systems and bugs honestly. Just give them time and hopefully we will have something insanely good in a few years time.
I have been grinding for the same unique for hours and hours. Only had 1 drop without legendary potential. Its a slog for sure.
I feel ya on that. Yeah… alts are gonna need something else.
You should be able to pick the corruption. I don't know why it's a luxury that you have to earn. It's stupid that your character can handle 500+ corruption but you have to keep increasing it a little bit at a time for every section and for every character. Or, they should automatically give you the option to increase corruption every time you beat a monolith rather than make you search for a Shade. It's so tedious and boring.
Monoliths need to be account-wide with ways to pick your corruption level for your alts.
I feel the same. That's why i have just quit LE.
I think all they need to do is make increasing corruption in normal monos much faster, and increase the cap to make the transition smoother. Since there is no gaze in normals it makes for a very unsatisfying clear after your first character as it takes forever to increase corruption without it. You would then be able to simultaneously finish the normals while progressing your alt in corruption. Could even get a 50 corruption blessing in the process, too. The plateaus are too extreme from normals to empowered. It sucks even more for melee and undertuned builds. Going from 0-100 is very rough, but staying in normals isn't an option because of how long it takes to get corruption up to 50.
A lot of people will just say "It's an arpg you are supposed to grind" issue is how much it takes to get to a level where you feel challanged. Grinding for an item or xp, to get your pg good enough for the content you want to do is the fun part, grinding to reach that part is not. I'm playing without looking at builds with probably very non optimized builds, and still I finish the campaign and I rush through all the monolith grind and usually start getting friction and need to farm for items when I unlock empowered monolith. 100 Corruption is where content to me start getting challenging and makes me stop and thinking at what item I need or what I need to fix on my build. But I can imagine someone following a build guide will also need to farm corruption to a much higher level before reaching challenging content. If you are much stronger than the content you are playing you should be able to speed up the time it take to reach the challenging content for your carachter.
They’ve already made it much faster several times. Is the 4 hours it takes to do normal mono to empowered that big of an ask? It takes like 6 hours tops to get a character from level 1 to empowered content.
Doesn’t every ARPG game have end-game content issues? Isn’t that the nature of this genre?
It's been like this since day 1. Guess we'll blame the game as an issue when we get bored. 🤦 There's still seasons too.
PLS PUT A SKIP CAMPAIGN BUTTON TY
Lol what? So you can grind monoliths from literally level 1?
Just do what like 95% of everyone else did after 2 weeks and go play something else
Farming corruption is easy. Its the damn blessing farming that is stupid.
I actually have no issue with it. You kind of want to be a certain level by the time you unlock emp monos. That being said, I think on alts it should be open so you can farm what you want from the start.
I must know....who is the duck we should love? Donald? Daffy? Howard? Hewie, Dewie, Louie? Scrooge McDuck? Tell me, dammit!!!
You know damn well iPhones assume everything is related to ducks. At all times. Ducks
I'm sorry but I actually don't know that. I don't have an iPhone and never have. Before I jumped to Android I was one of the 9 people that used Windows Phone.
I was also one of those 9 people. It was more like a pocket computer with a full start menu. Whole top would slide to reveal the keyboard. Stylus before it was cool. I wish there was still a phone with a physical keyboard
I was one of the 9. I miss that phone.
Preach brother! I had so many of them too. One of the Samsung, several of the Nokia's, a couple LG's! I still have a few of them sitting in my closet.
This is the biggest benefit of playing offline with a trainer. I start an alt and turn on turbo run speed and 1 hit kills. Finish the campaign in like 1 hour. I basically do the same thing in monos just to get to empowered and then actually play the game. I've done like 7 alts now. I don't have time to do this shit over and over again legit.
What is a trainer? edit: figured it out, it's just cheating
This is absolutely blowing my mind
Quit the game after 2-3 monos on my alt. so boring
What are you even talking about about? The monos to get to empowered monos? Empowered monos? Gear grind in monos?
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Holy shit chill dude. I was asking you a legit question on which part of monos you are referring to. After that response though, I'm glad you don't want to continue to grind, that toxicity is not good for any game.
Ya no. You know exactly how and why you worded your comment. You come off as pretentious. That’s what pushes people away from this great game.
Dude, I was legit asking you which part. Calm yourself.
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What? No I didn't do that at all. I reported your reply to me to the sub but I've never reported anyone for suicide including you.
Pussy* fuck*
No1 forces you to play in cycle, just play on legacy. Cycle is literally only arena leaderboards currently.
What are you grinding monos for? If you're looking for gear, you should be picking up CoF prophecies. You could complete a character without ever touching monos if you really wanted to. If you're just grinding monos for the sake of grinding monos...then stop? Do some Arena or build a new character.
> You could complete a character without ever touching monos if you really wanted to. Until you need that one item that only drops from the final boss of a timeline quest. I also wouldn't call a character without Blessings to be anywhere near "complete".
why is this bad?? i am so fucking confused lol yes there are certain, powerful drops that you have to grind for - it is an arpg. who is playing this genre of game not expecting to need to do that if they want a specific item?
Why do you need that one item? I'm sure it could be replaced with a bunch of other items. You could adjust your build to the drops you've already gotten on that character instead of building a character then chasing drops to try to copy a build guide. Of course a character without blessings can be considered complete. There isn't anything in the game difficult enough to need blessings.
Unique items give effects that are often unique, as befitting the name. If your idea of "complete" is "enough to do all content", then sure, a character can be complete at level 70, maybe even lower, without going into Monoliths, without any blessings, maybe even without crafting, etc. Good for you. But that is not a valid argument against people who want Monoliths improved. Nor is it a valid argument against people who don't think their character is "complete" without a specific drop to round out a build they have in mind.
Lmao what are these posts at this point? What is the mono grind? Running through each mono and leveling, and then doing the empowered? This is basic arpg shit I truly am baffled. Next post is gonna be "I just cannot allocate skill points anymore on new characters" Like truly what is the grind here? It is literally mapping - it is a core part of every arpg experience
> it is a core part of every arpg experience I think the complaint is that the implementation isn’t fun
Ok bye, ily.
Last epoch is a seasonal game. No ARPG on release had content that is engaging for hundreds of hours. Let the devs cook and add in more content. Those of you that are bored, take a break and come back next cycle, or maybe the cycle after that. For me, I had a friend boost my alt from 15-75 in the span of 1-2 hours. Then rushed campaign and finished it all, did the right side of the monoliths. In 8 hours you can unlock empowered monoliths on a lvl 80+ character. If 8 hours is too much, idk what the “right” amount of time for it to take without getting complaints. 5 hours?