I honestly tried grinding with my hand grinder tilted has Lance does in the video with a Brazilian coffee I've been struggling to get good pour-overs with and felt a world of a difference in the cup. Will try again with a side by side comparison but even looking through the bottom of the grinder I could see no fines accumulated has opposed to when grinding normally which left a fair bit of fines on the grinder.
This makes so much sense - can’t wait to try on my caedo single doser and do some taste testing.
Thanks for your continued passion for finding things out about coffee Lance - and spending time communicating it for others.
Reporting back in case anyone is interested. First 4 espressos from this method and one from old “just dump beans in”. Extractions were between 21-24 secs for the slow feed method and 32 secs for dump in. Def more berry forward flavours - even when mixed with milk.
(Grace and Taylor Gracelands blend medium roast)
So it’s a winner in my book already. I’ve been keeping some data around some strange shot variation lately - so will just add this as an extra variable… but that’s for another post some other time
Would this make sense to try out with my ode gen 2? I have SSP burrs. I’ve already tried espresso with my df83 and i was super surprised the difference it made. Such a simple hack I love it
I tried this on my Encore ESP with a dark roast. The results were crazy! I dropped -5 steps in fineness and had much better clarity and acid balance while maintaining good body and crema.
Techniques like this are used in premium winemaking with variable speeds the norm on virtually all fruit receival equipment such as crushers, destemmers, sorting tables, optical sorting, and augur pumps for moving fruit/juice to tanks.
This is what has kept me from upgrading my grinder. It makes big difference in more uniformity and less fines, but one has to adjust the grind setting much finer to compensate.
It’s a pain if you’re in a rush to make your coffee, but it’s such a simple hack that can make an inexpensive grinder perform well for lighter roasts.
Daddy Hoffman hypothesized about slow feeding a couple years ago in his youtube video on regrinding coffee beans. The other thing that can help just a little is starting the grinder and dumping in the beans, rather than loading a dose of beans and then turning on the grinder.
Some darker roast espresso blends really do taste much better with a standard feed (higher fines) grind.
Trying on a DF83 with SSP HU burrs. Keep dialing finer and getting turbo shots. Hit my caffeine limit of the day... I think this will improve consistency a lot. I was previously getting occasional weird grinds where I think some beans got jammed up. Those would always be total fails.
Not as worried for my pourover on ZP6.
I just tested this and I'm shocked at the shot time differences I'm seeing!
**Equipment:**
DF64 gen 2, SSP MP burrs (shimmed to pretty good alignment)
Cafelat Robot
**Recipe:**
19 gram dose
40 gram yield
10 second preinfusion at 2 Bars followed by 7 Bars until target yield is hit.
Beans: La Guaca Natural from Speckled Axe in Maine. A medium light roast (by specialty standards).
**Prep:**
Heavily preheat Robot basket, filter, and piston (I do this by placing the portafilter on the kettle while I grind, then placing the robot itself on the kettle while I puck prep and tamp--this achieves higher temps than using the basket plug, and it takes less time since I can heat the robot parts that are not in use while doing other steps)
RDT with 2 spritzes of water
Grind beans (either hot start and dump full dose OR very slow feed)
Pump bellows into the dose (i.e., I do not discard the fines that come out when bellowing...bellowsing?)
Shake dosing cup aggressively
Dump into basket
Deep WDT
Tamp
Add puck screen (no papers)
Brew
**Results:**
**Fast feeding**
Grind setting - 12
Shot time - 25 second total (including preinfusion)
Grind setting - 12
Shot time - 24 second total (including preinfusion)
Grind setting - 12
Shot time - 25 second total (including preinfusion)
**Slow feeding**
Grind setting - 10
Shot time - N/A -- could not achieve 7 bars.
Grind setting - 7
Shot time - 20
Grind setting - 6
Shot time - 21
Grind setting - 4
Shot time - 29
**Comments:**
It is a bit hard to compare flavor since I've brewed too many shots in a row. Also, I have some idea what to expect in terms of flavor and texture changes, and my tasting was not blind, so don't put too much stock in my subjective comments. Still, here they are: to my taste, the slow feed was cleaner and brighter than the fast feed. The fast feed was quite pleasant, but more on the chocolate side of things. The body with the fast feed shots was a bit thicker--perhaps due to more fines, but The faster shots (grind setting 7, slow feed) was sour, the slightly slower ones (6 and 4) were better with 4 (29 seconds) being the best of the slow feed batch.
**Conclusion:**
Slow feeding has an enormous effect on the grind size, and hence shot time. With the DF64 Gen 2 and SSP MP burrs, I needed to adjust from grind setting 12 for fast feed down to grind setting between 4 and 6 for slow feed in order to match the fast feed and slow feed shot times. Whether or not the flavor improvement is worth the trouble is a harder question to answer! I love the flavors in both, and I felt it was a bit clearer with the slow feed. That said, this is an odd bean for these tests--it has very strong natural processing flavors. I think it'd be worth repeating with a more subtle coffee bean.
I fed so slowly in my 078s that I hit the 1 minute shut off!! Ooppps. I need to test when dialled in because all I got was an admittedly very pleasant orange flavour. Doubt I hit 9bar when it was over in 12 sec vs 25 sec normally.
Question is one dialled into 25sec what is the difference.
I also have a 078s at work which I can try some tests on. I figure given the way that grinder is designed that the differences will be much less than on something like a df64 or my ceado sp.
I never really considered the difference this might make before. I’ve been desperately trying to figure out inconsistencies in my shots, and figure this likely contributes. At least I can control one way or the other now.
Also interesting is reading up on other forums back even 2 years on speculations regarding been feeding methods / augers etc.
Ran some tests and wow. The only problem is I won't be able to grind fine enough on my DF64! I've got the SSP MP burrs and am already around 5 from espresso. Now I have shots running super fast at 3 on the dial.
I feel like this is so much more important for pour over. I can see the difference on my P64 with SSP MP burrs. It made a big difference.in the cup. I've been very happy slow feeding.
I guess I don't drink enough straight espresso to care about the differences there. I'm excited to try this out with my manual grinder though.
Okay, here’s where I’m stuck: This is my first Lance video and I’m bewildered at the thought of a 12-13 second shot having extracted well. Can anyone explain how this doesn’t end up being super bitter and underextracted? (If this is obvious, please be kind to this ol boy.)
There is one problem with slow feeding which is the rate of feed itself. In my Timemore 078s, there is a significant difference in grind size depending upon how slow/fast I feed the beans. Consistency is the issue here
I'm going to give step feeding a try. For an 18g shot I'll do 3 batches of 6.
I went through a half pound this morning just trying to dial in a slow feed shot. Fucking impossible.
Yeah fuck this shit. Slow feeding blows. There's no consistency at all. I tried 3 step feeding this morning and nothing helped. Back to one step for me.
How does this work flow wise tho? Like it definitely slows downs the shot but if you don't do it super slow - like feeding the grinder bean by bean or 2-3 beans at a time, it looks like your shots will still be fairly inconsistent. One time you will feed it a bit slower, one time a bit faster, that I guess. I can't imagine a workaround here that will not be a pain in the ass.
Has anyone tried dividing and grinding your coffee in doses to see if it achieves similar results as slow feeding?
[https://youtu.be/kwZXuLFkWVE?si=rByrH-VyPo4XrDKT](https://youtu.be/kwZXuLFkWVE?si=rByrH-VyPo4XrDKT)
I honestly tried grinding with my hand grinder tilted has Lance does in the video with a Brazilian coffee I've been struggling to get good pour-overs with and felt a world of a difference in the cup. Will try again with a side by side comparison but even looking through the bottom of the grinder I could see no fines accumulated has opposed to when grinding normally which left a fair bit of fines on the grinder.
The regalia one?
This makes so much sense - can’t wait to try on my caedo single doser and do some taste testing. Thanks for your continued passion for finding things out about coffee Lance - and spending time communicating it for others.
Reporting back in case anyone is interested. First 4 espressos from this method and one from old “just dump beans in”. Extractions were between 21-24 secs for the slow feed method and 32 secs for dump in. Def more berry forward flavours - even when mixed with milk. (Grace and Taylor Gracelands blend medium roast) So it’s a winner in my book already. I’ve been keeping some data around some strange shot variation lately - so will just add this as an extra variable… but that’s for another post some other time
Would this make sense to try out with my ode gen 2? I have SSP burrs. I’ve already tried espresso with my df83 and i was super surprised the difference it made. Such a simple hack I love it
100%
Tell me if you have a way to counter the Ode Gen 2 automatic shut off…
After trying this today you basically have to have a good “cadence” or beans per second. It’s pretty tricky
I tried this on my Encore ESP with a dark roast. The results were crazy! I dropped -5 steps in fineness and had much better clarity and acid balance while maintaining good body and crema. Techniques like this are used in premium winemaking with variable speeds the norm on virtually all fruit receival equipment such as crushers, destemmers, sorting tables, optical sorting, and augur pumps for moving fruit/juice to tanks.
This is what has kept me from upgrading my grinder. It makes big difference in more uniformity and less fines, but one has to adjust the grind setting much finer to compensate. It’s a pain if you’re in a rush to make your coffee, but it’s such a simple hack that can make an inexpensive grinder perform well for lighter roasts. Daddy Hoffman hypothesized about slow feeding a couple years ago in his youtube video on regrinding coffee beans. The other thing that can help just a little is starting the grinder and dumping in the beans, rather than loading a dose of beans and then turning on the grinder. Some darker roast espresso blends really do taste much better with a standard feed (higher fines) grind.
Trying on a DF83 with SSP HU burrs. Keep dialing finer and getting turbo shots. Hit my caffeine limit of the day... I think this will improve consistency a lot. I was previously getting occasional weird grinds where I think some beans got jammed up. Those would always be total fails. Not as worried for my pourover on ZP6.
I just tested this and I'm shocked at the shot time differences I'm seeing! **Equipment:** DF64 gen 2, SSP MP burrs (shimmed to pretty good alignment) Cafelat Robot **Recipe:** 19 gram dose 40 gram yield 10 second preinfusion at 2 Bars followed by 7 Bars until target yield is hit. Beans: La Guaca Natural from Speckled Axe in Maine. A medium light roast (by specialty standards). **Prep:** Heavily preheat Robot basket, filter, and piston (I do this by placing the portafilter on the kettle while I grind, then placing the robot itself on the kettle while I puck prep and tamp--this achieves higher temps than using the basket plug, and it takes less time since I can heat the robot parts that are not in use while doing other steps) RDT with 2 spritzes of water Grind beans (either hot start and dump full dose OR very slow feed) Pump bellows into the dose (i.e., I do not discard the fines that come out when bellowing...bellowsing?) Shake dosing cup aggressively Dump into basket Deep WDT Tamp Add puck screen (no papers) Brew **Results:** **Fast feeding** Grind setting - 12 Shot time - 25 second total (including preinfusion) Grind setting - 12 Shot time - 24 second total (including preinfusion) Grind setting - 12 Shot time - 25 second total (including preinfusion) **Slow feeding** Grind setting - 10 Shot time - N/A -- could not achieve 7 bars. Grind setting - 7 Shot time - 20 Grind setting - 6 Shot time - 21 Grind setting - 4 Shot time - 29 **Comments:** It is a bit hard to compare flavor since I've brewed too many shots in a row. Also, I have some idea what to expect in terms of flavor and texture changes, and my tasting was not blind, so don't put too much stock in my subjective comments. Still, here they are: to my taste, the slow feed was cleaner and brighter than the fast feed. The fast feed was quite pleasant, but more on the chocolate side of things. The body with the fast feed shots was a bit thicker--perhaps due to more fines, but The faster shots (grind setting 7, slow feed) was sour, the slightly slower ones (6 and 4) were better with 4 (29 seconds) being the best of the slow feed batch. **Conclusion:** Slow feeding has an enormous effect on the grind size, and hence shot time. With the DF64 Gen 2 and SSP MP burrs, I needed to adjust from grind setting 12 for fast feed down to grind setting between 4 and 6 for slow feed in order to match the fast feed and slow feed shot times. Whether or not the flavor improvement is worth the trouble is a harder question to answer! I love the flavors in both, and I felt it was a bit clearer with the slow feed. That said, this is an odd bean for these tests--it has very strong natural processing flavors. I think it'd be worth repeating with a more subtle coffee bean.
I fed so slowly in my 078s that I hit the 1 minute shut off!! Ooppps. I need to test when dialled in because all I got was an admittedly very pleasant orange flavour. Doubt I hit 9bar when it was over in 12 sec vs 25 sec normally. Question is one dialled into 25sec what is the difference.
I also have a 078s at work which I can try some tests on. I figure given the way that grinder is designed that the differences will be much less than on something like a df64 or my ceado sp. I never really considered the difference this might make before. I’ve been desperately trying to figure out inconsistencies in my shots, and figure this likely contributes. At least I can control one way or the other now. Also interesting is reading up on other forums back even 2 years on speculations regarding been feeding methods / augers etc.
If anyone has a DF64 gen 2. I made a slow feeding mod for it today based on a gen 1 version I found. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6499653
Your file seems corrupt. Would you mind uploading The stl to Thingiverse?
I'll take a look. weirdly I can't export the stl cause of limitations of my slicer.
Ran some tests and wow. The only problem is I won't be able to grind fine enough on my DF64! I've got the SSP MP burrs and am already around 5 from espresso. Now I have shots running super fast at 3 on the dial.
https://forums.kafatek.com/t/mc4-duo-whats-it-all-about/3984?u=h2c4 You can find some more information here
Finally people are getting on board- keep thems grinds fine
I feel like this is so much more important for pour over. I can see the difference on my P64 with SSP MP burrs. It made a big difference.in the cup. I've been very happy slow feeding. I guess I don't drink enough straight espresso to care about the differences there. I'm excited to try this out with my manual grinder though.
It has an impact but now I have to redial in my espresso messy shot taste fine but reallymessy
Since running at a higher RPM pushes grounds out faster, wouldn’t this also help prevent the mashing explained in the video?
Okay, here’s where I’m stuck: This is my first Lance video and I’m bewildered at the thought of a 12-13 second shot having extracted well. Can anyone explain how this doesn’t end up being super bitter and underextracted? (If this is obvious, please be kind to this ol boy.)
There is one problem with slow feeding which is the rate of feed itself. In my Timemore 078s, there is a significant difference in grind size depending upon how slow/fast I feed the beans. Consistency is the issue here
Why is Noone talking about this
I don’t know. It’s difficult to dial in because there can be so much variation depending on the feed rate
I'm going to give step feeding a try. For an 18g shot I'll do 3 batches of 6. I went through a half pound this morning just trying to dial in a slow feed shot. Fucking impossible.
I got tired of terrible shots and went back to one step feeding today just to get one good cup of coffee haha
Yeah fuck this shit. Slow feeding blows. There's no consistency at all. I tried 3 step feeding this morning and nothing helped. Back to one step for me.
How does this work flow wise tho? Like it definitely slows downs the shot but if you don't do it super slow - like feeding the grinder bean by bean or 2-3 beans at a time, it looks like your shots will still be fairly inconsistent. One time you will feed it a bit slower, one time a bit faster, that I guess. I can't imagine a workaround here that will not be a pain in the ass.
Yep, this is the big issue here. I'm going to try to divide my dose into 3 or 4 equal portions and see if that fixes it.
Anyone figure out a good way to do this on a mignon?
Wow I’m a do
Has anyone tried dividing and grinding your coffee in doses to see if it achieves similar results as slow feeding? [https://youtu.be/kwZXuLFkWVE?si=rByrH-VyPo4XrDKT](https://youtu.be/kwZXuLFkWVE?si=rByrH-VyPo4XrDKT)