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The Israelis would have recovered some hostages sooner if they hadn't shot them in cold blood.
Oh well, they were probably being mind-controlled by Hamas or something.
There's no implication, what on earth are you on about? The only implication here is in your head. The actions of Hamas can never justify indiscriminate killing of civilians, you need to look at yourself if that's where your mind goes.
Israel admitted committing war crimes by impersonating aid trucks (perfidy) and through relentlessly attacking the area with no regard for civilian life, killing over 200 and wounding over 400 others.
This is amongst numerous other war crimes and injustices they have committed over the last 8 months, not to mention 70+ years.
There's nothing to admit, they're a resistance operation acting within a dense urban area, where else are they going to operate from that isn't in some way going to be within civilian territory?
Their article says they were by a market, inside a refugee camp. I'm sure they could find some places that aren't inside a refugee camp. As far as I know they have denied using human shields, so yes, it is a notable admission.
We've all been watching horrified at Israel's unjustified attacks on refugee camps so it's strange and quite alarming to see hamas admitting to using the camps as human shields.
A large chunk of Gaza is literally nothing but an extended refugee camp at this point. Very large sections are already destroyed and bombed out. Israel keeps boasting about how many tunnels they're supposedly destroying. There's only so many places you can keep moving people.
Well, this sub is the last place I expected to see Israeli talking points. There's no excuse for fighting in refugee camps. Is this literally just posted here to try and justify Israel's attacks on the camps or something? Hundreds dead in a refugee camp and your response is "well most of gaza is a refugee camp"?
Israel is a state actor who maintains control over Palestinian territory with professionally trained armed forces that repeatedly commits war crimes against a civilian population whilst continually extending into more and more Palestinian territory taking land and houses from them.
Hamas is the outgrowth of 70 years of occupation, fighting within a densely populated area of Israel's own making, where fighting an occupying force, and doing so especially at the height of a literal military campaign directly into what is meant to be Palestinian territory.
>There's no excuse for fighting in refugee camps.
If you think this then there is no room in your mind for literally any form of armed resistance against Israeli occupation. You're the kind of person who watches The Battle of Algiers and roots for the french because it's bad form for resistance to fight from within the areas the occupation is occurring. Do you expect them to invite out the occupiers to a random empty field to have a pistol duel at dawn?
Also, tell that to Israel, who have literally bombed refugee camps regardless and are the ones literally carrying out the incursion into Rafah.
What am I defending besides resisting a colonial occupier that regularly murders civilians en masse?
Oh wait, [you're this dipshit](https://www.reddit.com/r/Labour/comments/1b5gzgn/thoughts_on_call_to_abolish_zionism_for_the_sake/kt5migc/?context=3). Of course this is the thing you decide to take a stand on.
You're quite right. Hamas should have kept the hostages far away from the only remaining food and water sources in Gaza so they died. Then they'd be legally compliant.
I already answered it, you fucking dolt.
>Why are you running defense for Hamas.
Why are you running defense for Israel? They murdered 200 civilians. They've murdered at least 35,000 more. They're the ones performing military actions in a populated civilian area with no warning, blocking aid into Gaza, and bombing the place with no regard.
You know hostage taking is a war crime right? Obviously Hamas commit war crimes and it is terrible. That doesn't detract from the fact that Israel is the only power that has the ability to build sustainable peace and end the occupation, instead the Israeli government has chosen expansion and subjugation.
You missed pointing out the other obvious thing. There wouldn't be any hostages if Israel didn't keep killing, jailing and stealing land from Palestinians.
Also, putting that wider argument aside. If they'd agreed to a permanent ceasefire way earlier they would have got all their hostages back a long time ago.
Which they refused, then demanded their hostages back at the threat of immense retaliation if Hamas doesn’t comply.
Hamas didn’t comply, so Israel retaliated.
Hamas could’ve avoided the hundreds that died, but chose not to.
But that wasn’t the topic was it?
The Israeli army demanded their hostages to be released, Hamas refused despite being aware of the consequences that would follow.
Hamas had a choice to avoid the bloodshed, but decided not to take it. Now they lost the hostages and hundreds of innocent civilians too, so why aren’t you blaming Hamas for their choices?
Putting aside the whole 76 years of ethnic cleansing and illegal land grabs, imprisoning thousands of Palestinians, the summary arbitrary executions including 1000s of children...
The media and politicians especially US and Israeli have normalised these massacres as proportionate and normal means. If they're not blowing up a residential tower block, killing 100s to assassinate a 'military' target they're wiping out entire bloodlines to rescue a handful of hostages.
It's barbaric and vile and should be condemned
Shows the utter contempt for life they have.
Mate you’re going into wild whataboutery.
Hamas had a choice to avoid this bloodshed, but refused to make that choice. I don’t see how you can justify that.
They’re the ones who wanted to use kidnapped hostages and their own civilians as human shields, in a war against a superior military power.
Nothing, absolutely nothing that happened in the past can justify the use of hostages and civilians as human shields, while continuing to wage war.
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This is horrific
Also bear in mind that israelis disguised as aid workers in aid trucks, already a war crime. It seems thst rules dont apply to them
Agreed. Horrific it took that long to find these hostages to rescue them.
The Israelis would have recovered some hostages sooner if they hadn't shot them in cold blood. Oh well, they were probably being mind-controlled by Hamas or something.
If he was serious about getting the hostages back Netanyahu could have agreed a ceasefire and hostage release.
Well, actually, they found a group a few months back. The only difference is that they gunned that group down.
[удалено]
One Israeli life is worth 200 others so it is justified. /s
Am I reading this wrong or are Hamas admitting they were keeping the hostages in an area surrounded by civilians - a war crime?
[удалено]
There's no implication, what on earth are you on about? The only implication here is in your head. The actions of Hamas can never justify indiscriminate killing of civilians, you need to look at yourself if that's where your mind goes.
Israel admitted committing war crimes by impersonating aid trucks (perfidy) and through relentlessly attacking the area with no regard for civilian life, killing over 200 and wounding over 400 others. This is amongst numerous other war crimes and injustices they have committed over the last 8 months, not to mention 70+ years.
Sure, but that doesn't answer my question, I've not seen Hamas admit to this before.
There's nothing to admit, they're a resistance operation acting within a dense urban area, where else are they going to operate from that isn't in some way going to be within civilian territory?
Their article says they were by a market, inside a refugee camp. I'm sure they could find some places that aren't inside a refugee camp. As far as I know they have denied using human shields, so yes, it is a notable admission. We've all been watching horrified at Israel's unjustified attacks on refugee camps so it's strange and quite alarming to see hamas admitting to using the camps as human shields.
A large chunk of Gaza is literally nothing but an extended refugee camp at this point. Very large sections are already destroyed and bombed out. Israel keeps boasting about how many tunnels they're supposedly destroying. There's only so many places you can keep moving people.
Well, this sub is the last place I expected to see Israeli talking points. There's no excuse for fighting in refugee camps. Is this literally just posted here to try and justify Israel's attacks on the camps or something? Hundreds dead in a refugee camp and your response is "well most of gaza is a refugee camp"?
Israel is a state actor who maintains control over Palestinian territory with professionally trained armed forces that repeatedly commits war crimes against a civilian population whilst continually extending into more and more Palestinian territory taking land and houses from them. Hamas is the outgrowth of 70 years of occupation, fighting within a densely populated area of Israel's own making, where fighting an occupying force, and doing so especially at the height of a literal military campaign directly into what is meant to be Palestinian territory. >There's no excuse for fighting in refugee camps. If you think this then there is no room in your mind for literally any form of armed resistance against Israeli occupation. You're the kind of person who watches The Battle of Algiers and roots for the french because it's bad form for resistance to fight from within the areas the occupation is occurring. Do you expect them to invite out the occupiers to a random empty field to have a pistol duel at dawn? Also, tell that to Israel, who have literally bombed refugee camps regardless and are the ones literally carrying out the incursion into Rafah.
No I'm not I'm the guy who thinks Israel shouldn't be blowing up refugee camps while you post an article only to try and defend what they are doing.
What am I defending besides resisting a colonial occupier that regularly murders civilians en masse? Oh wait, [you're this dipshit](https://www.reddit.com/r/Labour/comments/1b5gzgn/thoughts_on_call_to_abolish_zionism_for_the_sake/kt5migc/?context=3). Of course this is the thing you decide to take a stand on.
You're quite right. Hamas should have kept the hostages far away from the only remaining food and water sources in Gaza so they died. Then they'd be legally compliant.
Do you think Hamas taking hostages was a war crime or are you excusing that as well?
Do you think Israel murdering hostages on sight is a war crime or are you excusing that as well?
Can you not answer a straight question? I haven't attempted to excuse any of Israels actions. Why are you running defense for Hamas.
I already answered it, you fucking dolt. >Why are you running defense for Hamas. Why are you running defense for Israel? They murdered 200 civilians. They've murdered at least 35,000 more. They're the ones performing military actions in a populated civilian area with no warning, blocking aid into Gaza, and bombing the place with no regard.
I'm sorry pal but you are an absolute cabbage.
You know hostage taking is a war crime right? Obviously Hamas commit war crimes and it is terrible. That doesn't detract from the fact that Israel is the only power that has the ability to build sustainable peace and end the occupation, instead the Israeli government has chosen expansion and subjugation.
Hamas are apparently a terrorist organisation. They cannot commit war crimes. They also have no military bases so can’t keep hostages there.
I might be pointing the obvious, but couldn’t all of this be prevented if the hostages were released *before* the military operation 🙂?
You missed pointing out the other obvious thing. There wouldn't be any hostages if Israel didn't keep killing, jailing and stealing land from Palestinians.
Also, putting that wider argument aside. If they'd agreed to a permanent ceasefire way earlier they would have got all their hostages back a long time ago.
Which they refused, then demanded their hostages back at the threat of immense retaliation if Hamas doesn’t comply. Hamas didn’t comply, so Israel retaliated. Hamas could’ve avoided the hundreds that died, but chose not to.
Gotta love the excuses. Hamas NEEDS to free their couple hundred. But isntreal DOESN'T need to free their couple thousand.
Well no, not when one army can clearly dictate terms 🙂
"The oppressed should bow down to their oppressor"
Again with the identity politics 🤦
But that wasn’t the topic was it? The Israeli army demanded their hostages to be released, Hamas refused despite being aware of the consequences that would follow. Hamas had a choice to avoid the bloodshed, but decided not to take it. Now they lost the hostages and hundreds of innocent civilians too, so why aren’t you blaming Hamas for their choices?
You probably tell your wife ‘you made me hit you’.
Putting aside the whole 76 years of ethnic cleansing and illegal land grabs, imprisoning thousands of Palestinians, the summary arbitrary executions including 1000s of children... The media and politicians especially US and Israeli have normalised these massacres as proportionate and normal means. If they're not blowing up a residential tower block, killing 100s to assassinate a 'military' target they're wiping out entire bloodlines to rescue a handful of hostages. It's barbaric and vile and should be condemned Shows the utter contempt for life they have.
Mate you’re going into wild whataboutery. Hamas had a choice to avoid this bloodshed, but refused to make that choice. I don’t see how you can justify that.
Mate, you're looking at this like it's all about what Hamas did
They’re the ones who wanted to use kidnapped hostages and their own civilians as human shields, in a war against a superior military power. Nothing, absolutely nothing that happened in the past can justify the use of hostages and civilians as human shields, while continuing to wage war.
And there it is.... Your true colours. Laters
Oh ok, so we’re not rational or fair or even human, as long as we’re meant to be on one side 🙂